Raguraman

Arthashastra On-Line

 

 

http://www.mssc.edu/projectsouthasia/history/primarydocs/Arthashastra/

Hare Krishna,

 

 

VEDÂNTA-SÛTRAS

 

WITH

 

RÂMÂNUJA'S SRÎBHÂSHYA

 

http://www.ibiblio.org/pub/docs/books/gutenberg/etext05/8sutr10.txt

Hare Krishna,

 

Mahabaratham Santhi Parva (46.107) Bhishma tells that Krishna would take the form of an auxiliary Avatara as Aadhi Buddha and mislead the non- believers. This Aadhi Buddha is different from the Siddartha Goutama Buddha of historical fame.

Also Maha Maya was the mother of Siddartha Gautama Buddha; she was the wife of Raja Suddhodana according to Buddhist sources.

 

Let us see what Bhagavatam tells of aadhi Buddha.

 

Srimad Bhagavatham (1:3:5)

Thereafter in the Age of Kali His birth as Lord Buddha from Anjanâ in Gayâ will take place in order to delude the ones envious with the theists.

 

More information on the following site.

http://www.salagram.net/Buddha-dev.html

Hare Krishna,

 

Mahabaratham Santhi Parva (46.107) Bhishma tells that Krishna would take the form of an auxiliary Avatara as Aadhi Buddha and mislead the non- believers. This Aadhi Buddha is different from the Siddartha Goutama Buddha of historical fame.

Also Maha Maya was the mother of Siddartha Gautama Buddha; she was the wife of Raja Suddhodana according to Buddhist sources.

 

Let us see what Bhagavatam tells of aadhi Buddha.

 

Srimad Bhagavatham (1:3:5)

Thereafter in the Age of Kali His birth as Lord Buddha from Anjanâ in Gayâ will take place in order to delude the ones envious with the theists.

 

More information on the following site.

http://www.salagram.net/Buddha-dev.html

 

If your assertion were true--that Vishnu incarnated as the Buddha, but then denied being a god--he would have been lying. Is a god who tells falsehoods worthy of worship?

 

 

Sometimes a lie can save many deserving people. This is why many times Lord Visnu fooled asuras.

 

If your assertion were true--that Vishnu incarnated as the Buddha, but then denied being a god--he would have been lying. Is a god who tells falsehoods worthy of worship?

 

 

Sometimes a lie can save many deserving people. This is why many times Lord Visnu fooled asuras.

Hare Krishna,

 

When I visited a Skanda's temple in India I had the opportunity to meet a great Guru. With his mere sight he gave me some kind of vision which I did not understand as a child. Neither did I ask the Guru what was it.

Just as I entered the place where he was seated his kind eyes and mine were locked. The next instant I was surrounded by lluminous light that felt so much full of peace and so much bliss that Iwas crying. I searched for my body but I could not see anyhting but luminous light everywhere. Infact "I was just an eye" with no parts like hands or legs. After sometime I came back to physical reality. I thought I had a day dream.

 

The Guru was Sri Sri Swami Santhananda

 

 

http://www.omsriskandhashramam.org/

 

Please visit Skandashramam if you can. The whole place is so peaceful that you will experience it when you visit.

Hare Krishna,

 

Whoever you are Guestjee I really enjoyed reading your posts. I cannot wait to read more and more like this.

Hare Krishna,

 

Whoever you are Guestjee I really enjoyed reading your posts. I cannot wait to read more and more like this.

Hare Krishna,

 

 

 

To the Vedas, Rudra(Shiva) was always secondary and got a lowly place, lower than the wind and the earth, fire and the aswins.

 

 

 

This is interesting. Can you quote some verses to support your contention.

Hare Krishna,

 

 

 

To the Vedas, Rudra(Shiva) was always secondary and got a lowly place, lower than the wind and the earth, fire and the aswins.

 

 

 

This is interesting. Can you quote some verses to support your contention.

Hare Krishna,

 

http://www.intratext.com/IXT/SAN0010/_PRT.HTM

------------

Rig Veda: 10:136:7

 

vAyurasmA upAmanthat pinaSTi smA kunannamA

keshIviSasya pAtreNa yad rudreNApibat saha

 

http://www.intratext.com/IXT/ENG0039/_PRB.HTM

 

Vayu hath churned for him: for him he poundeth things most hard to bend,

 

When he with long loose locks hath drunk, with Rudra, water from the cup.

------------

Although we read in Bhagavatam that only Lord Siva drank the poison from the ocean, here in Rig-Veda we see that Lord Vayu drank poison along with Lord Shiva. Lord Shiva is simply mentioned as a secondary participant.

 

Any thoughts on this.

 

Also we see that Lord Vayu churns and pounds the poison that was so hard, and gave it to Lord Shiva.

Hare Krishna,

 

http://www.intratext.com/IXT/SAN0010/_PRT.HTM

------------

Rig Veda: 10:136:7

 

vAyurasmA upAmanthat pinaSTi smA kunannamA

keshIviSasya pAtreNa yad rudreNApibat saha

 

http://www.intratext.com/IXT/ENG0039/_PRB.HTM

 

Vayu hath churned for him: for him he poundeth things most hard to bend,

 

When he with long loose locks hath drunk, with Rudra, water from the cup.

------------

Although we read in Bhagavatam that only Lord Siva drank the poison from the ocean, here in Rig-Veda we see that Lord Vayu drank poison along with Lord Shiva. Lord Shiva is simply mentioned as a secondary participant.

 

Any thoughts on this.

 

Also we see that Lord Vayu churns and pounds the poison that was so hard, and gave it to Lord Shiva.

Hare Krishna,

 

http://www.vaishnava.com/dvaita-vAda.htm

 

Jivas (Atman):

 

Souls are conceived in Madhvas system as finite centres of

conscious experience, each with a unique essence of its own. The essence

of individuality is that one finite centre of experience cannot possess,

"as its own immediate" experience, the experienc e of another. It is this

non-transferable immediacy of experience that distinguishes one self from

another, inspite of their possessing certain similar characteristics. Each

has a specific content of consciousness, reality and bliss and constitutes

a foca lization which is nowhere exactly repeated in nature. The nature of

the souls is to be one of unalloyed bliss and pure intelligence. It is

essentially free from any kind of misery or pain; though subjected to a

natural gradation of intelligence and bliss in cosmic hierarchy of selves

and subject always to the Supreme, in bondage "and in release". The sense

of misery, which is bondage, is external to their essence and is brought

about by a "real" though "misplaced sense of independence of initiative

and co nduct"

 

The jivas are reflected counterparts (pratibimbamsa) of Brahman

(Visnu). The bodies of the jivas, eternally present in Vaikuntha, the

celestial abode of Visnu, are transcendental (aprakrta). Hence, they are

called unconditioned-reflected-counterparts (nirupadhika-pratibimbamsa)

of Visnu. The bodies of the jivas of the material world are matierial;

therefore, they are called conditioned-reflected-counterparts

(sopadhika-pratibimbamsa) of Visnu.

 

(i) Plurality of selves: Madhva holds the doctrine of multiplicity

of selves. The basis for this is the intrinsic diversity of their

essences, which he shows to be "inevitable presupposition of the theory of

karma". It is accepted that the inequalities o f individual equipment and

endowment are regulated by ones pastlife and its karma. But, by its very

nature, the karma theory would be powerless to explain the why of such

inequalities, in the remotest past, without recourse to the hypothesis of

an intrin sic peculiarity (anadi visesa) that is uncaused. It is this

anadivisesa or svabhavabheda says Madhva, that distinguishes one soul

from another. This is the decisive contribution which Madhva has made to

the interpretation of the problem of life and its diversitis. He has thus

gone beyond the principle of karma, unerringly, to the " svabhavabheda" (

intrinsic or essential differences in the nature of the beings).

Similarly, the uniqueness of each individual experience, which forms the

content of per sonality, is sufficient reason, according to Madhva, for

the acceptanc of jiva-bahutva-vada (plurality of souls) and the

distinctiveness of each individual.

 

The theory of svarupabheda of souls elaborated by Madhva is, thus,

the only solution of the problem of plurality of selves, their freedom and

free will.

 

(ii) Tripartite classification of souls: Madhvas doctrine of the

Soul insists not only upon the distinctiveness of each soul but also upon

an intrinsic gradation among them based on varying degrees of knowledge,

power, and bliss. This is known as tarat amya or svarupataratamya,

which comes out all the more clearly in the released state, where the

souls realize their true status. Jiva-traividhya or tripartite

classification of "unreleased souls" into (1) muktiyogya (salvable), (2)

nitya-samsarin ( ever-transmigrating) and (3) tamoyogya (damnable) are

the allied doctrines of svarupataratamya of souls. This theory of

Madhva, is intended to justify and reconcile the presence of evil with

divine perfection.

 

Sri Madhva also speaks about the intrinsic differences existing

among the "released" souls. Hiranyagarbha among the released (and in

samsara too) occupying a privileged position as jivottama. His accepts

innate distinction among (released) souls into dev a, rsi (pitr, pa) and

naras. The devas are sarva-prakasa (fit to realize God as pervasive),

the sages are antahprakasaand the rest bahihprakasa.

 

The doctrine of intrinsic gradation among souls would follow as a

matter of course, once the principle of their plurality is admitted. Many

philosophical topics related to the law of karma, the problem of good and

evil, behaviour of free-will displayed i n the case of individual jivas

etc. can be solved only by the acceptance of the above theories of Sri

Madhva.

 

The recognition of special class of souls called nityasuris (as

in the system of Ramanuja) and the class called nityasamsarins will be

inexplicable without the acceptance of an intrinsic gradation of souls

into ordinary and "elect" and so on. The hig her position of sesitva

assigned to "Sri" in respect of nityasuris also points to a natural

gradation among souls. Similarly the existence of nityamuktas like

Visvaksena, Garuda, Ananta etc. who always remain free from samsara

(accepted by the Visistadvat ins) and the high place assigned to Brahma

among the gods (by Vedic and Puranic literature) are to be highlighted in

this connection as their spititual excellence and superiority over other

souls.

 

Gods and men are not equal in their basic nature and powers, or in

the innate tendencies for good or bad, which determine their future

development. The doctrine of intrinsic gradation of souls is thus a

resoned and reasonable hypothesis of human nature a nd destiny, suggested

by the moral law and supported by reason, revelation and experience.

Madhva holds that it can not be satisfactorily accounted for the presence

and continuation of evil in a world created and ruled by a most perfect

Being unless it is taken to be natural to some as goodness is to others.

Without such a fundamental division of human nature, the disparities of

life reflected in the seemingly unfair distribution of pleasure and pain

and oportunities for moral growth are not satisactorily explained. The law

of karma cannot satisfy the quest for an ultimate explanation of such

bewildering enexplicabilities. It cannot explain why given two

alternatives of good or evil, certain persons show a marked preference or

tendency towards the one and others to the opposite. Moral worth,

knowledge, works, experience, heredity, opportunities, culture - none of

these explanatons of diversity solves the riddle pushed to its staring

point; The final solution can only be found in the ingerent nature of bei

ngs.

 

Madhva and his commentators have cited many texts from the Vedic

and post-Vedic literature ( from Gita 16.3, 5, 6, 18, 20; 8.2; Bhag.

6.14.5; Isa. Up 3 etc.), in support of the acceptance of the traividhya

among jivas who are entangled within the samsara . An intrinsic divergence

of nature and faith into sattvika, rajasa and tamasa which is rooted

in the core of individual nature (dehinam svabhavaja) as stated in the

Gita, is the ultimate basis of this theory according to Madhva. This

theory is deve loped from the doctrine of trividha-sraddha in the Gita.

The term sattvika, rajasa, and tamasa are applied to the jivas in their

tripartite classification, according to Madhva, ha reference to their

basic nature of Caitanya going beyond the play of prakrt i nad its gunas:

"yo yac chraddhah sa eva sah" (Gita 17.3). This is clear from Madhvas

comment on the above verse, where he interprets the term "sattvanurupa" as

"cittanurupa".

 

(iii) Self-luminosity of souls: The individual soul, as a sentient

being, is admitted by Madhva to be self-luminious (svaprakasa). It is

not merely of the form of knowledge (jnanasvarupa) but is a knower

(jnatr). The conception of self as a conscio us personality is the same

as it is in respect of God, expect for the fact that even the

self-luminosity of the jiva is dependent on the Supreme, which makes

bondage possible.

Hare Krishna,

 

http://www.hknet.org.nz/Jiva-Atma-page.htm

Hare Krishna,

 

 

How can the soul be tamasic? I know the subtle body can be so influenced. Also the three modes always compete for supremacy.BG 14.10

 

Are you saying that Krsna formed living beings out of the mode of ignorance and thus condemned them to eternal hell?

 

 

 

Let me explain correctly. Spirit(Jiva) is not created by anybody(not even GOD) in DVAITA as in any other Vedic system.

 

IN Dvaita, there is gradation among Jivas. Each Jiva is unique and it's inherent nature remains even after liberation. Thus even if material modes compete with each other the inherent nature of the individual predominates.

 

The development of an individual takes place strictly in accordance with his inner nature. The environmental factors only help manifest what is already rooted in one's inner nature. Thus inner nature is the spontaneous way of life for a Jiva. It is an innate characteristic rooted firmly in the Jiva from the time immemorial. No amount of effort can alter its course. A sattvika or pure-hearted man cannot become a tamasa or evil-minded one. Nor can a tamasa turn into a satvik. One's attainment of perfection is nothing but a complete manifestation of one's unique individual nature.

Hare Krishna,

 

 

Where does this permanent hell exist if it is apart from the 14 worlds and not spiritual?

 

I will never accept that some souls were made inherently evil and destined to reside in an eternal hell. Never. I don't care who says it.

 

 

 

 

No need to be scared. Unlike Christianity, just because you pray to a different GOD you do not go to hell. Lord Krishna himself says in Gita that those who worship Gods go to Gods.

 

It is the Tamasic souls(Paisachas, Rakshasas, Asuras etc.) that are Tamasic by nature that go to hell. If you love DIVINE BEINGS like Gods it shows for sure that people like you are attracted to that infinite Brahma(Lord Vishnu called by different names).

Hare Krishna,

 

 

The theory of three kinds of living entities, one of which is the eternally damned soul, is not spoken of by Madhva,but by later teachers in their line.

 

 

 

Are you sure?

http://www.geocities.com/madhvaonline/sarvamula/tatvasankh.html

 

Tatva Sankhyanam

-by Sri Madhvacharya

 

(translated to kannada by H.H Sri Vidyamanya Swami, translated from kannada to english by Madhukrishna)

 

<http://www.geocities.com/madhvaonline/line.jpg>

 

<http://www.geocities.com/madhvaonline/madhva1.jpg> The Supreme principle can be divided into dependent and independent. Sri Vishnu who is full of auspicious qualities and wealth is independent.

 

Dependent can be divided into deficient and non-deficient.

 

Deficiency can be divided into deficiency for objects before its birth, deficiency for objects after its death, deficiency for objects that never exist.

 

Non-deficient can be divided into living and one non-living.

 

Living entities can be divided into two, not touched by misery and touched by misery. Sri Lakshmi is without misery, rest of the souls are touched by misery.

 

Souls other than Lakshmi are of two types ? those who have overcome the misery and the ones who are still in misery. There are five types among those who are already liberated ? Gods, sages, pitrus, emperors and Supreme humans. Those who are still in misery are of two types ? capable of overcoming the misery and those who are not capable of overcoming the misery.

 

Even those who are capable of overcoming the misery are of five kind ? Gods, sages, Pitrus, emperors and Supreme humans. Those who are not able to over come the misery are of two kind ? ignorant (tamasic) and those who will rotate in this world for ever (rajasic).The ignorant are of four kind ? Daityas, Rakshasas, Pishachas and lowest among humans. Among these ignorant some have already obtained complete ignorance (eternal hell) and others are still in this world.

 

Objects without life are of three kind ? that which is there for ever, that which comes into existence and goes, that which does not exist for ever.

 

Vedas are that which exists for ever. Puranas come into existence based on time and Environment and goes.

 

The objects without life which does not exist for ever are divided in to two ?well composed and not well composed. Higher principles (Mahatatva), principle of ego (Ahankara tatva), principle of knowledge (buddhitatva), mind, eyes and other five sense organs, 5 bhutas, -like this 24 elements constitute not so weel composed elements. Universe and all the elements within constitute well composed elements.

 

Creation, maintenance, destruction, initiative to sustain in itself, deficient and non-deficient ? two types of wrong knowledge, right knowledge, attachment, liberation, happiness, misery, darkness, light all this are given to this universe based on the eligibility of individual by Lord Visnu.

Hare Krishna,

 

http://www.geocities.com/madhvaonline/sarvamula/tatvaviveka.html

 

Tatva Viveka

-By Sri Madhvacharya

 

(translated to Kannada by H.H Sri Vidyamanyatirtha, translated from kannada to English by Madhukrishna Note:I can only say I have translated based on the understanding I have and within my limits.)

 

<http://www.geocities.com/madhvaonline/line.jpg>

 

<http://www.geocities.com/madhvaonline/madhva1.jpg> By evidence it can be proved that truth can be of two types ? independent and dependent. One who is free of defects, full of auspicious attributes, such Godhead Vishnu is Independent truth.

 

Dependent truth is of two types deficient and non-deficient. Deficient can be divided into three ? deficiency for objects before its birth, deficiency for objects after its death, deficiency for objects that never exist.

 

There is no other type of deficiency than those stated above.

 

Non-deficient is of two types ? living and non-living.

 

Living entities which are dependent can be divided into ever liberated and the ones who are touched by misery and under go tranmigration in material world.

 

Lakshmi is the only ever liberated. Other living entities are divided into liberated and non-liberated.

 

Even among the liberated souls from humans to four faced Brahma, the auspicious qualities vary hundred times. Lakshmi is always above Brahma in all qualities.

 

Non-liberated can be classified into three categories ? satvik (mode of goodness), rajas (mode of action) and tamas (mode of ignorance). Those who belong to satvik are eligible for liberation. Those is rajas are bound to the world forever. Those in the tamas go into deepest ignorance.

 

Non-living entities are divided into two ? indestructible and destructible. Space, time, Vedas, earth, 5 bhootas, 11 senses, Prana, Satva, Rajas & Tamo qualities, Rupa, Rasa, Gandha, Sparsha, Shabdha ? 5 tanmendriayas, higher truth, ego, intellect ?all these are eternal non-living entities. An object composed by these eternal entities are destructible. All living entities are eternal.

 

Form, taste and other such qualities, actions, solidity, liquidity and other states all these are based on the properties of the element with which it is made of and are not different from it.

 

Qualities based on the objects are of two types. That which will stay as long as the base object stays, that which will be destroyed even while the base object stays. Qualities which stay as long as the object stays, are called definite qualities and those qualities which will be destroyed even while object stays are called temporary qualities. One should understand the similarity and difference between the object and their definite qualities. One should also understand the large difference that exists between the Object and its temporary qualities.

 

Even though Pot is destructible, the mud with which it is made of is indestructible. One should understand the similarity and difference between Pot and mud. Action - reason, quality ? object, action ? object, casts ? person, special ? pure, part ? parcel, in all these if relationship is temporary one should understand the difference and if relationship is definite one should understand the similarity and difference.

 

One who understands the divisions made till now between the deficient and non-deficient entities which are under the control of Sri Hari will get liberated from the world.

Thus ends the Tatvaviveka composed by Sri Madhvacharya

Hare Krishna,

 

"Kali the evil personality rose during the churning of the ocean. "

 

there is no evidence supporting this in bhagavatam or gita.

what scripture says this?

 

 

Well this is what is given in Mahabharatha Tatparyanirnaya written by Madhvacharya.

 

 

"3. Souls that are destined to be eternally damned."

 

there is no evidence supporting this in bhagavatam or gita.

what scripture says this? if gita does not say it, so i would say that madhva did not say it either. HK's are from gaudiya madhva line and the do not agree to etnerla hell. only xians thin of eternal hell. prabhupada has said that madhva was an incarnation of bhima (a pandava).

 

 

 

Chapter 16. The Divine And Demoniac Natures

 

TEXT 20

 

asurim yonim apanna

mudha janmani janmani

mam aprapyaiva kaunteya

tato yanty adhamam gatim

 

SYNONYMS

asurim--demoniac; yonim--species; apannah--gaining; mudhah--the foolish; janmani janmani--in birth after birth; mam--unto Me; aprapya--without achieving; eva--certainly; kaunteya--O son of Kunti; tatah--thereafter; yanti--goes; adhamam--condemned; gatim--destination.

 

TRANSLATION

Attaining repeated birth amongst the species of demoniac life, such persons can never approach Me. Gradually they sink down to the most abominable type of existence.

 

Dvaita Translation.

 

The deluded, who are born diabolically, life after life, go down into darkness, without finding Me.

 

had hypothesized before whether or not the personification of Kali was a parallel to the Christian Satan. One who seeks to bring about evil in the world. Sounds like from Madhva Vaisnavism, this is fairly close. Are you saying that this Kali personified, in fact controls this permanent hell. Also, would this individual be an eternal personality, or does he only appear in the age of Kali Yuga.

 

Very intesting ideas. Thanks for the information Raguraman. Any other details would be appreciated.

 

 

 

Kali like ChaturmukhaBrahmA is an ordinary soul. Kali is the worst kind of demon. He arises in each creation and the worst soul becomes Kali. Just like the emancipated souls enter into BrahmA during dissolution, comdemned souls enter into Kali. This is Madhva's philosophy. Condemned souls are the ones that do evil by their nature. Kali himself suffers in that darkness as ordinary condemned souls.

Hare Krishna,

 

 

Madhav

Sri sampradaya started by sri ramanujacharya is pure dvaita vada. gaudiya madhva sampradaya is vishishhthadvaita vada.

 

 

 

You got it mixed.

 

Sri Ramanuja sampradaya follows vishishhthadvaita

 

Sri Madvacharya sampradaya follows pure Dvaita.

Hare Krishna,

 

First I am talking of a permanent hell(apart from the 14 worlds).

 

Second, according to Acharya Madhva, there are three eternally different "eternal entities".

 

1. GOD(Lord Vishnu)

 

2. Jiva

(a) Mahalaksmi (eternally free Jiva)

(b) Jivas that were or are in bondage

 

3. Prakriti

 

All three entities are eternally different ones. Lord Vishnu resides in the heart of ALL JIVAS but does not experience pleasure or pain of the Jivas.

 

By the way, what I mean by Design is that these souls were, are and will be like that. This is one of the reasons that Acarya's philosophy wasnot accepted by everyone generally.

Hare Krishna,

-----------------

buddhirbalaM yasho dhairyaM nirbhayatvaM arogatA |

ajADyaM vAkpaTutvaM cha hanUmatsmaraNAdbhavet.h ||

 

Intelligence, strength, fame, valor, fearlessness, lack of ill-health;

absence of sloth, skill in speech, and many more -- all accrue upon remembering Hanuman.

 

(Chatur-mukha) Brahma himself as a Guru, and the Lord-of-Shri (Vishnu) as my IshhTa-Devata, Srimad-Âchârya (Madhva) as Âchârya, these may I have, in birth after birth.

-----------------

 

I have read something about Sri Madhvacharya's concepts of hell and personally I do believe them.

 

Just like Vaikunta(immortal world of Lord) there is a permanent hell besides the 14 worlds or lokas.

 

Kali the evil personality rose during the churning of the ocean. He causes great evil in this world and during the dissolution of the universe souls that are destined to eternal hell join or enter into Kali and are cast into hell. Acharya Madhva asserts his belief by quoting from Bhagvad Gita, where Lord Krishna says that he hurls evil people into demonic wombs again and again and they begin to hate the Lord so much that they would not be able to reach him at all.

 

According to Acharya there are three kinds of souls.

 

1. Souls that are destined to achieve Moksha.

2. Souls that are destined to return back to samsara again and gain without any end.

3. Souls that are destined to be eternally damned.

Eternally damned souls are the ones that are by design evil. They cause harm to all living beings by nature. These souls cannot go beyond the Bhu Loka(Earth) ie they cannot go to heavenly worlds.

 

It is best to avoid chanting mantras to Hanuman unless one is guided by an experienced sadhaka and unless one follows the prescribed rules and regulations.

 

 

After visiting astrologer, I was told to worship Lord Hanuman to alleviate problems. I am surprised at some of the experiences described here.

 

Is it possible for someone to describe proper way to worship Lord Hanuman.