Avinash

By mistake I thought that I had opened Spiritual Discussions Forum and I started this thread. Now I find that it is World Review forum.

I read this story somewhere. The story may not be actual incident but it does have an important teaching.

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Once a god came to visit Earth. After spending some time, he was going back. Then he saw a pig. He was inside mud. The god was overcome with compassion. He said to the pig, "Let me help you. I can pull you out of the mud."

The pig replied, "Wait. Let me roll in the mud for some more time."

He spent some more time rolling in the mud. Then he asked the god who he was. The god said, "I am a god. I have come from heaven and now going back."

The pig said, "Will you take me also to heaven?"

The god said, "Yes, why not? Come with me."

The pig said, "I hope there is lot more mud in heaven."

The god replied, "No, no. There is no need of mud in heave. Heaven is very beautiful with clean water. There are beautiful gardens with beautiful and fragrant flowers. There are trees of tasty fruits.

The pig said, "If there is no mud there, then I do not want to come. I suggest that you also roll in the mud for some time. You will feel real happiness."

The god laughed and went.

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Often a question is asked: -

If God loves everyone and if it is true that reaching God's abode is the ultimate happiness, then why doesn't God take everyone there? We say that this world is full of sufferings. Then why is he making us take birth here again and again?

The answer may be that we are not ready to be in God's abode. In spite of sufferings, we are attached to this world and we will not be happy being near God unless we get rid of this attachment.

The post that contains the number six is a winning post and that post has already been made by Mr. Avinash, who likes to find loophole in laws.

The rule says that 20 is a winning number. But it does not say what base to be used. The participants are assuming the base to be 10, but it is nowhere specified.

Assuming 20 is written in base 3, the equivalent number in decimal system is 2 * 3 + 0 = 6

Mr. Avinash should be given the first prize for writing the winning number before any other. But others also have chance to win.

Base = 4: 20 = 2 * 4 + 0 = 8

Base = 5: 20 = 2 * 5 + 0 = 10

and so on.

(As claimed earlier, any even number greater than or equal to six is a winning number.)

Prof. biza has proved 1 = 2. But he has done one step of dividing by zero (though he did not write it explicitly). This is illegal. However, you can prove there are many winning numbers without doing any such thing. You will see that in the next post.

6

You may be thinking that only one post can be winning because only one number can be winning number. But did you realize that there are many winning numbers? In fact all even numbers starting from six are winning numbers.

If we should ban mahak's #2 because he also did #1

Mr. Mahak has abided by the laws. His #2 should not be banned because his #1 and #2 are not two consecutive posts. Some other poster (Mr. biza) made a post in between. It is not necessary that the other poster must post a number. The only condition is that he should make some post. This rule is only to avoid the scenario in which the same poster makes lots of posts in quick succession containing numbers. Therefore, some other poster should be given a chance to post. The other poster has the opportunity to post a number. Whether he utilizes this opportunity or not is purely up to him to decide.

we need to convene the rules committee to see how much time must pass between posts by the same person. Ill start.

If there are two consecutive posts both having number, then the two should not be by the same person. Otherwise only the first of these will be accepted.

I have no problem in taking the story of Durvasa creating a demon from his hair as literal. I am not saying that it must be literal. May be it is. May be it is allegorical. But it is possible. However I do not believe that Ugrasena had billions of followers. Considering the amount of space so many followers will require, it is just not possible.

My religion (whatever it is) is better than yours (whatever it is). Don't believe? I will prove. Then you will be forced to believe.

I find many things in your religion, which have been proven wrong by Science. You find the same problem in my religion? How dare you do that? Do you give more importance to mundane scientists than what is spoken by God?

Oh, so you say that I should not use mundane Science to judge your religion. Come on. Don't be emotional. Use logic. Are you trying to use logic to judge my religion? Don't you know that mundane logic should not be applied in spiritual things?

You say that Science can be wrong? Of course, it can be. But there are many things in your religion, which contradict what we clearly observe. Now, don't start finding the same problem in my religion. Remember that you should not trust your senses. After all they are imperfect.

My religion cannot be wrong. It is given by God. It is clearly written in my religion that it is given by God. Is it written in your religion that it is given by God? What a fool you are! Don't you know that circular logic is not a valid logic at all?

Now you must agree that my religion is perfect and your religion is wrong. Better to agree now than to repent later. If you do not agree then :smash: :smash: :smash: :smash: :smash:

According to Vaishnava principles, anyone who refuses to accept and worship the deity form of the Lord is an impersonalist.

Isn't it your own definition? A personalist is one who believes that God is a person and, therefore, has a form. An impersonalist is one who believes that God is an impersonal, formless principle. It has nothing to do with deity worship. It is possible for a person to believe that God has a form but he does not like worshipping an idol because he does not consider that as God. What will you classify that person as? Personalist or impersonalist or something else?

How has Islam influenced Hinduism? Please be specific.

Stress on monotheism is one influence of Islam on Hinduism. You may argue that Hinduism was already monotheistic and it talked of one supreme. I agree.

However, I am not talking about whether monotheism and casteim were already present or not present in the scriptures of Hinduism. I am talking about Hinduism as it came to be practiced. Often there is difference between what scriptures say and what people do.

Irrespective of whether hinduism was monotheistic or not, it is a fact that various gods were worshipped in Hinduism. In vedic rituals various gods were invoked by chanting hymns in their praises. Monotheism was not stressed before the mixing of Islam with Hinduism. So, monotheism, even if present, was dormant. Because of the influence of Islam, this was stressed.

This is not correct. There is no record of the religion named as Sanatana Dharma until the 19th century when some people took offense at the foreign origin of the word Hinduism and created this "new" name. Although esha dharma sanaatanah appears in some places, it is never used as a noun. It is a reference to the eternal law. Check Manu Smriti 4.138 for an example.

Yes, I have read Manu Smriti 4.138. In fact, I have read entire Manu Smriti. Before talking on the name 'Sanatana Dharma', let me talk on what exactly we mean by religion.

Humans have been asking various questions whose answers they are not able to get simply by using their senses with or without the aid of any machines. At least, majority of them do not. There are some who claim to know the answers from their direct experience and I will not doubt their claims; it is just that I do not have such an experience and majority do not have such a direct experience. These questions are:-

How did this universe come out to be? Is there any intelligence behind it?

If yes, then who is that intelligent person?

What are his qualities?

Why did he create the universe?

What happens when a person dies?

There are many other such questions. The answers to these questions have given rise to further questions and answers. For example, in answer to what happens after death, some people (though not all) talk of heaven and hell. Then the questions arise on the details of heaven and hell.

There are different schools of thought so far these questions are concerned. So, there are different kinds of belief-system. Based on these belief-systems, there are different kinds of practices, which we call as religious practices or rituals.

A collection of similar and compatible religious beliefs and rituals is called a religion. So, Hinduism has its own beliefs and rituals; Islam has its own and so forth.

I know some people (may be you included) may object to this definition of religion. Some may like to give some other definition. For example, some may say that religion is what teaches man come closer to God. I accept that this is also a valid definition. But when answering a question, rather than simply typing my beliefs, I see what the questioner is really trying to know.

The question is what were the cultural and societal influences because of which Hinduism originated in the area in which it did. The words 'cultural and societal' indicate that we are talking about the cultural practices in a society. That is why I chose the above definition. In some other context some other definition may be more appropriate.

So, the question becomes - "What were the cultural and societal influences because of which the religious beliefs and rituals known as Hinduism became vital in the region where it originated."

But there was not a sharp point in time when these beliefs and rituals originated. There was gradual change. So, what do we call as origin? Therefore, I wrote that we should see how the current form of Hinduism came out to be and how this was suitable in the region where this was accepted.

The word Hinduism is just a term for a set of beliefs and practices. The word could be Hinduism, Sanatana Dharma, xyz or whatever. Let us see what the word signifies in the context of our discussion.

When I wrote Hinduism is a new term, all I wanted to say (as I even mentioned) was that Hinudims as it is practiced now is very much different from as it was earlier.

Now, come to the word 'Sanatana Dharma'. The Manu smriti verse you have mentioned uses only dharma and not sanatana dharma as noun and it uses sanatana as adjective. This is what you wanted to point out. Right? But if the name was not Sanatana Dharma, then what was it? I am not asking this because I am claiming that the name was definitely Sanatana dharma. Rather I want to say something interesting about the name. I want to say something not only about the name of a religion but about name in general. If you come up with the answer to my question, then it will be easier for me to explain what I am talking about.

When I am talking about influence of Hinduism, then I mean Hinduism as it is practiced now. If you compare the religious practices of Hindus with those of several centuries earlier, you will find various differences.

Your question is how Islam has influenced Hinduism. Please note that when I talked of invaders, then I was not thinking of their religions. I was just thinking of a new culture - that culture could be Islam or anything else. When foreigners came to India and mixed with natives of India here, then it is obvious that their culture affected the original culture of India and their culture was, in turn, affected by the culture of India.

When various diverse cultures affected Hinduism, then we can only know about their collective effect and not the effect of any individual culture. However, we can definitely look at the practices of Islam and also those of earlier and newer Hinduism and estimate which of the changes happened because of Islam. I will post some of these in the next post.

Let me first say something on the word 'Hinduism'. Earlier there was no religion called Hinduism. Rather the people who loved on this side of Sindhu river were called as Hindus. By "this side" I mean side on which India is. So, Hinduism is a rather new term. The original word was Sanatan Dharma, meaning eternal way of righteousness.

However, at present, the word Hinduism has a different meaning. Now we do not call all people in India as Hindus. Rather those who believe in the scriptures of Hinduism are often called Hindus. The scriptures are various puranas, vedas, Mahabharat, Ramayan and some others. These books contain various spriritual beliefs i.e. about soul, life and death, heaven and hell, various gods and goddesses etc. These also contain various rituals to be performed. So, those who believe in these spiritual philosophies and believe in practicing these rituals are called as Hindus.

So, your question can rephrased as:-

"What cultural and societal influances made the beliefs and the rituals of Hinduism vital to the region where it originated?"

Let me try to answer.

If you study the religious practices and beliefs of Hinduism, you will find that these are very diverse. There are various subdivisions in Hinduism. Some people believe in some parts of what we call as Hinduism and some others believe in some other parts.

So, how is it that a single religion came to contain so many diverse believes and practices?

The answer is that India has been the region where various diverse cultures have mingled. In earlier days Nalanda, Taxshila and some other universities in India were considered great universities and students from far and wide came here to study. When they came, they took something from the culture of India and gave something to the culture of India. Because of intermixing with them, the religious practices of Hindus here changed somewhat.

There were many invaders who came to India to loot India. There was intermixing with them also. These invaders came looted India and went back. They again came, looted India and again went back.

However, when Muslim king Babar came, he did not go back. He stayed in India and ruled here. His generations also ruled here. Since they ruled here for such a long time, so their culture somewhat influenced the culture of Hinduism.

Because of the intermixing of various cultures, it was important for Hinduism that it should not reject new things but should be able to absorb diverse cultures.

So, this is one part (the ability of Hinduism to assimilate diverse cultures) of the answer to your question.

As you can notice, I have not mentioned any specific beliefs of Hinduism. In my next post, I will write about some specific beliefs and practices and also write while these were vital to the region where these were practiced.

What exactly would you like to know about Hinduims? One person posted a question but the question is very generic. Can you ask some specific questions? Then it will be clear what you want to know and easier for me and others here to answer.

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There is no need for us to remember our past mistakes in order to be good now. Suppose I do not remember if I ever committed burglary in the past (this life or some previous life). Does it mean I can commit burglary now? Of course not. I know it is bad and, therefore, I should not do it irrespective of whether I did it in past or not.

You might be wondering why I labelled the previous post as "No end of such questions". I did not answer completely otherwise it would have been clear. Anyway, let me complete the answer now.

In this site, I am finding many such questions - Can I do this? Can I do that? Should I do this? Should I do that?

Let me mention some of questions which I have seen though the exact wordings may be different:-

Is it better to worship Gauranga or Krsna?

Should we pray to Rama or to Krsna?

I am not able to chant 64 rounds. Is it OK if I chant less?

Is it OK to worship Radha before Krsna?

I like meditating only on Krsna and not on Radha. Is it OK?

etc...

As such there is nothing wrong with these questions and may be quite genuine as per those who ask them. Howeverm, there is no end to such questions. If we keep asking such questions, then we will not get enough time for prayer, chanting etc.

Can i say mantra,to jesus and krisna at the same time?

Usually if we try to recite two different mantrans together, then we are often not able to concentrate on any one. For this and only for this reason, I do not think it good two recite mantras to Jesus and to Krsna together. However, if you are able to recite both mantras and can concentrate on both, then I do not see any problem. If there is some other reason as to why this should or should not be done, then I am not aware of it.

BTW, which mantras are you talking about?

How can any devotee of Krishna be interested in some Jesus who taught that God is the father who supplies bread?

Please pardon my ignorance. I do not have much of knowledge of the teachings of Vaishnavism and of Jesus to compare between Jesus's teachings and Vaishnavism.

Howver, I can say with certainty that there is nothing wrong in Jesus requesting God (Father) to supply daily bread. If God provides everything, then He provides bread (food in general) too. It is quite obvious.

One thing surprises me. I never consider myself as some big devotee. Even now, there are many things written in scriptures, which I find difficult or rather almost impossible to believe, if taken literally. I do not become angry if I meet those who deny the existence of God. I discuss with them provided they are really interested in discussion. But there are some people who very assertively (sometimes aggressively) defend theism. But what is an obvious inference of the existence of God is not obvious to them but it is obvious to me even their belief is far stronger than mine. This is what surprises me.

Just now I opened this forum to post this news but you beat me to it by a whisker.

The 3 vedas (4th was later)????

Yes, the first three vedas are Rg, Sama, Yajur. The fourth, Atharva is later.

Thanks, I will give it a try

I personally like reading a book in its printed form and not from Internet. I use Internet version of a book only sometimes for quick reference. But, in case, you want to see the Internet version of Bhagavad Gita As It Is (the book which cbrahma suggested), then you can see it on www.asitis.com

However, Gita is a scripture of Hinduism. It is not just any scripture but a highly sacred scripture. So, it should not just be read but studied thoroughly and should be treated with reverence. I do not think all this is possible just by reading it on your computer. But still I have given the URL in case you need it sometime for some quick reference.

Some people call Rig Veda (one of the scriptures of Hinduism) as Old Testament of Hinduism. Rig Veda is a very famous and highly sacred scripture of Hinduism, but not many people call it as Old Testament. Please confirm what your professors mean by Old Testament of Hinduism.