Jahnava Nitai Das

Always respect sadhus and your life will be successful. Approach the sadhus in a humble state of mind and inquire from them submissively. Sadhu seva is the higest service to the Lord.

You believe in tolerance for all views... except those that disagree with you. Please display your universal tolerance and allow us to disagree with you. Thank you for considering this. Since according to your belief all paths are true and lead to the same result, you must admit that my path (of not accepting all religions as equal) is also true and leads to the same goal. Thus if you really believe what you say you do, you should have no problem with narrow-minded people like us who accept the statements of the Vedas as authoritative (and reject those paths that are against the Vedas). We should also be accepted in your all-inclusive view of world religions, and you should display your universal open-mindedness by not disagreeing with us. Unfortunately it appears your philosophy is good on paper, but is impossible to apply. You should restate your beliefs, so that it is clear you accept all paths as good only as long as they agree with your views. Is it fair for you to expect us to blindly accept the killing of cows as dharma in the name of tolerance and open-mindedness, yet you cannot even accept us disagreeing with your view.

Unfortunately it is what the Vedic scriptures teach, and is what Lord Krishna states in the Gita. It may sound better to you, but the fact is it isn't true. Krishna says in the Gita that those who worship Him receive a different destination, and those who worship other devas receive a different destination: yanti deva-vrata devan pitrn yanti pitr-vratah bhutani yanti bhutejya yanti mad-yajino 'pi mam "Those who worship the demigods will take birth among the demigods; those who worship ghosts and spirits will take birth among such beings; those who worship ancestors go to the ancestors; and those who worship Me will live with Me." This is the teaching of Lord Krishna, though it may not be palatable to some. What you propose is your own teaching, and if you think it is better than Krishna's, I would suggest you start another religion. Why should anyone foolishly believe all paths lead to the same destination? Our religion teaches us that cows are sacred, must be protected and worshipped, and if one kills a cow he is destined to thousands of lives in hell. Another religion teaches that cows should be slaughtered in the name of their God and by doing this one attains heaven. Both religions cannot be correct, as they contain opposite teachings.

Here is another article on him: 1. Fasting Hindu Holy Man Baffles Physicians http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/3236118.stm AHMEDABAD, INDIA, November 2003: Doctors and experts are baffled by an Indian hermit who claims not to have eaten or drunk anything for several decades--but is still in perfect health. Prahlad Jani, a holy man, who is over 70 years old, has just spent 10 days under constant observation in Sterling Hospital, in the city of Ahmedabad. During that time, he did not consume anything and "neither did he pass urine or stool," according to the hospitals' deputy superintendent, Dr. Dinesh Desai. Yet he is in fine mental and physical fitness, say doctors. Most people can live without food for several weeks, with the body drawing on its fat and protein stores. But the average human can survive for only three to four days without water. "A series of tests conducted on him show his body mechanism is that of a normal person," said Dr. Desai. Mr. Jani spends most of his time in a cave near the Ambaji temple in Gujarat state. He spent his 10 days in the hospital in a specially prepared room, with a sealed-off toilet and constant video surveillance. To help the doctors verify his claims, Mr. Jani agreed to avoid bathing for his time in the hospital. The only fluid he was allowed was a small amount of water, to use as mouthwash. At the end of his confinement, doctors noted no deterioration in his condition, other than a slight drop in his weight. "I feel no need for food and water," says Mr. Jani, who claims he was blessed by a Goddess at the age of eight and has lived in caves ever since. It is likely that doctors will want to examine Mr. Jani again in order to solve the medical mystery he has presented them with, says this article.

As mentiontioned by a poster above, we are only half way through Brahma's day. According to the Bhagavatam, each universe is surrounded by a shell of material elements that are so thick and dense that nothing beyond can be seen. Thus we have no experience of other universes through sight. Falling stars are planets ruled by elevated yogis who no longer have the potency to maintain their abode, and thus it falls into the Garbhodaka ocean. (Other apparent falling stars may just be meterorites entering the earths atmosphere.)

Doctors baffled as Indian man claims not to have eaten for 68 years Mon Nov 24, 6:28 AM ET AHMEDABAD, India (AFP) - An Indian man who claims divine inspiration says he has survived 68 years without eating, drinking or relieving himself, baffling doctors who are unable to prove him an imposter. Prahlad Jani, a 76-year-old whose extraordinary tale has won him a small band of devotees, took a dare and underwent round-the-clock surveillance at a hospital in Ahmedabad (news - web sites), the commercial capital of the western state of Gujarat. Clad in his trademark red sari, bangles and earrings meant to fashion Hindu goddesses, Jani managed to puzzle the Sterling Hospital's 400 doctors. Neurologist Sudhir Shah said Jani was under watch for 10 days, with a closed-circuit camera running, and that doctors were convinced he did not break any of his vows, although there was no way of verifying whether Jani has pulled it off for 68 years. "He has evidence of the formation of urine, which was reabsorbed on his bladder wall. The medical committee does not have any scientific explanation," Shah said. Jani offered an explanation. He said he has been blessed and heard his calling when he was eight years old. "I get the elixir of life from the hole in my palate, which enables me to go without food and water," Jani explained to AFP. A vindicated Jani left the hospital Saturday and said he was retreating to a cave at Mount Abu in the neighboring desert state of Rajasthan. Another doctor, Dinesh Desai, said the hospital hoped to test Jani again to verify his claim of a hole in the palate between his mouth and nose. "We may get some answers then," Desai said. Shah said it took the hospital more than a year to persuade Jani to undergo surveillance. He said he wanted the ascetic to undergo experiments at NASA, as Jani's supposed feat could come in handy for astronauts.

<p align="center" style="margin: 0"><font face="Verdana" size="2">Bhaktivedanta International Charities Monthly Report</font></p><p align="center" style="margin: 0"><font face="Verdana" size="2">A 501©(3) Tax Exempt Charitable Organization</font></p><p style="margin-left: 20; margin-right: 20; margin-top: 0; margin-bottom: 0" align="center"><font face="Verdana" size="2">http://www.foodrelief.org</font></p><p align="center" style="margin: 0"> </p> <hr width="95%" align="center"> <p style="margin-left: 20; margin-right: 20; margin-top: 0; margin-bottom: 0" align="center"> </p><p style="margin-left: 20; margin-right: 20; margin-top: 0; margin-bottom: 0" align="center"></p><p style="margin-left: 20; margin-right: 20; margin-top: 0; margin-bottom: 0" align="center"> </p> <p style="margin-left: 20; margin-right: 20; margin-top: 0; margin-bottom: 0" align="center"><font face="Verdana" size="1">[ Children attending the Bhaktivedanta Ashram's daily educational programs</font></p><p style="margin-left: 20; margin-right: 20; margin-top: 0; margin-bottom: 0" align="center"><font face="Verdana" size="1">receive nourishing meals. More recent photos at the bottom of this page. ]</font></p><p style="margin-left: 20; margin-right: 20; margin-top: 0; margin-bottom: 0"> </p><p style="margin-left: 20; margin-right: 20; margin-top: 0; margin-bottom: 0"> </p> <font face="Verdana" size="2">Dear friends and devotees, Please accept my humble pranams. I would like to update you regarding the Bhaktivedanta Ashram's school project that we have mentioned in previous newsletters. At present we are waiting for the rainy season to finish before we begin construction on the school project. This year there has been excessive rain and as a result many areas are flooded, including our land where the school is going to be constructed. The flood waters should recede by the end of December (provided there is no further rain), and then we will begin by raising the land above flood level and starting the construction of the school building (tentatively scheduled for the beginning of next year). Once complete the school should be able to accommodate at least 1,000 students (with 9,000 square feet of class room space). In the meantime we have started an informal school for poor children from nearby areas around our Ashram, and around 150 children are attending each day. Many of these children would previously spend their time begging, rummaging through garbage piles, and doing other such activities. One by one we have met with these children and spoken to them about the importance of their life and convinced them to change their lifestyle by taking interest in learning. To see the transformation of these children was amazing. Most of them used to walk around covered in dirt, practically naked except for one or two torn rags. We have cleaned them up by giving them clothes, teaching them how to brush their teeth & take bath everyday, and by providing them with daily meals when they come for classes. Now they all look like clean, bright students and are taking so much interest in learning. These children will be the first students of the school once the project is complete, and gradually we will increase the students till there are 1,000. Some of the children had told us that they used to go to school in government schools but stopped going because the teachers would beat them. Since they all came from poor families, and many were from so-called "untouchable" castes, the teachers didn't like them coming to school and would not take any interest in their welfare. They would prefer to beat and punish these children so they wouldn't come to school, while children from wealthy families were treated with care and respect. Because no one had faith that these children could learn, they themselves began to believe they couldn't learn and gave up all hope of becoming anything. Many of the small children would beg for money so that they could buy tobacco or even liquor. One of our smallest students who is just 4 years old would daily chew tobacco, which he would purchase by collecting old glass bottles from the trash. And children who were a little bigger, like 10 or 11, would wait by liquor shops so they could drink any drops of liquor left in people's cups. Our hope is that we can find these children and turn their lives around by giving them hope and encouragement. They have never been shown love or kindness in their life and as a result they live a very rough life with a hopeless future. Krishna instructs us in the Gita "sarva-bhuta hite ratah", we must act for the welfare of all people. So it is our duty to try to help those who are in need, and who better to help than such innocent children. By taking a little time to show these children that we care for them and that we want them to succeed in life it will give them the encouragement to change themselves for the better. Hare Krishna! Yours in service, Jahnava Nitai Das, Bhaktivedanta Ashram & Bhaktivedanta International Charities http://www.foodrelief.org <p style="margin-left: 20; margin-right: 20; margin-top: 0; margin-bottom: 0" align="center"><font size="1" face="Verdana">[Photos of the daily children's program being conducted by the Bhaktivedanta Ashram.]</font></p> <p style="margin-left: 20; margin-right: 20; margin-top: 0; margin-bottom: 0" align="center"> </p><p style="margin-left: 20; margin-right: 20; margin-top: 0; margin-bottom: 0" align="left"><font face="Verdana" size="2">Below are some of the pictures of the children attending our daily programs. When we first began these programs two months ago we started with three children from a nearby slum. Within a week the number had increased to 40 children, and today there are 150 children attending everyday. Most of the children are illiterate, so we begin by teaching them simple things like reading and writing. For recreation we have art classes (coloring, painting, drawing, etc.), organized games and sports. We also teach them lessons from the Bhagavad Gita and stories from the Panchatantra so that they can develop morally and spiritually. The pictures at the bottom show the children coloring "Matsya Avatar". Most of these children had never held a pen in their life, so when we gave them pens to color with they couldn't figure out how to hold them. Now the art class is their favorite activity of the day.</font></p><p align="center"></p><p style="margin-left: 20; margin-right: 20; margin-top: 0; margin-bottom: 0" align="center"><font size="1" face="Verdana">[Children attending the Bhaktivedanta Ashram's educational</font></p><p style="margin-left: 20; margin-right: 20; margin-top: 0; margin-bottom: 0" align="center"><font size="1" face="Verdana">program are given sanctified food each day.]</font></p> <p style="margin-left: 20; margin-right: 20; margin-top: 0; margin-bottom: 0" align="center"> </p><p style="margin-left: 20; margin-right: 20; margin-top: 0; margin-bottom: 0" align="center"></p><p align="center"></p><p style="margin-left: 20; margin-right: 20; margin-top: 0; margin-bottom: 0" align="center"><font size="1" face="Verdana">[From time to time educational and entertaining videos are shown to</font></p><p style="margin-left: 20; margin-right: 20; margin-top: 0; margin-bottom: 0" align="center"><font size="1" face="Verdana">the children, such as the Ramayana and Mahabharata Hindi serials.]</font></p><p align="center"></p><p align="center"></p><p style="margin-left: 20; margin-right: 20; margin-top: 0; margin-bottom: 0" align="center"><font size="1" face="Verdana">[The children enjoy the classes so much that they attend on</font></p><p style="margin-left: 20; margin-right: 20; margin-top: 0; margin-bottom: 0" align="center"><font size="1" face="Verdana">their own choice without the need for anyone to request them.]</font></p> <p style="margin-left: 20; margin-right: 20; margin-top: 0; margin-bottom: 0" align="center"> </p> <p style="margin-left: 20; margin-right: 20; margin-top: 0; margin-bottom: 0" align="center"></p> <p style="margin-left: 20; margin-right: 20; margin-top: 0; margin-bottom: 0" align="center"> </p> <p style="margin-left: 20; margin-right: 20; margin-top: 0; margin-bottom: 0" align="center"></p> <p style="margin-left: 20; margin-right: 20; margin-top: 0; margin-bottom: 0" align="center"> </p> <p style="margin-left: 20; margin-right: 20; margin-top: 0; margin-bottom: 0" align="center"> </p><p style="margin-left: 20; margin-right: 20; margin-top: 0; margin-bottom: 0" align="center"> </p> <p style="margin-left: 20; margin-right: 20; margin-top: 0; margin-bottom: 0" align="center"><font size="1" face="Verdana">[The children are also taught meditation for removing</font></p><p style="margin-left: 20; margin-right: 20; margin-top: 0; margin-bottom: 0" align="center"><font size="1" face="Verdana">stress and strengthening their mind & intelligence.]</font></p> <p style="margin-left: 20; margin-right: 20; margin-top: 0; margin-bottom: 0" align="center"> </p> <p style="margin-left: 20; margin-right: 20; margin-top: 0; margin-bottom: 0" align="center"></p> <p style="margin-left: 20; margin-right: 20; margin-top: 0; margin-bottom: 0" align="center"> </p> <p style="margin-left: 20; margin-right: 20; margin-top: 0; margin-bottom: 0" align="center">http://www.foodrelief.org/nov11.jpg</p> <p style="margin-left: 20; margin-right: 20; margin-top: 0; margin-bottom: 0" align="center"> </p> <p style="margin-left: 20; margin-right: 20; margin-top: 0; margin-bottom: 0" align="center">http://www.foodrelief.org/nov13.jpg</p> <p style="margin-left: 20; margin-right: 20; margin-top: 0; margin-bottom: 0" align="center"> </p> <p style="margin-left: 20; margin-right: 20; margin-top: 0; margin-bottom: 0" align="center">http://www.foodrelief.org/nov14.jpg</p> <p style="margin-left: 20; margin-right: 20; margin-top: 0; margin-bottom: 0" align="center"> </p> <p style="margin-left: 20; margin-right: 20; margin-top: 0; margin-bottom: 0" align="center">http://www.foodrelief.org/nov15.jpg</p> <p style="margin-left: 20; margin-right: 20; margin-top: 0; margin-bottom: 0" align="center"> </p>

This is the last thing we need, to break the temples and mosques of India and replace them with parks.

Prasada is food that has been accepted by the Lord. It is possible that food has been offered to the Lord without it being accepted (due to lack of devotion of the offerer), and hence not prasada. It is also possible that food has not been ritualistically offered to the Lord, but has somehow been accepted by the Lord (due to the devotion of someone) and is thus prasada. These are mostly exceptions. In general circumstances, we respect all food offered to the Lord as prasada, as we do not know what the Lord accepts and rejects. Furthermore, there is another category of blessed food which is the food that is rejected by the Lord. Even the food rejected by the Lord carries spiritual potency and purifies us.

Just as Shiva is an expansion of Lord Vishnu, in the same way Durga is an expansion of Lakshmi. The worship of Radha-Krishna automatically includes the worship of the Lord's expansions, thus it is not necessary for devotees to seperately worship Durga or Shiva.

Is Kali (Durga) Lord Krishna's energy? mayadhyaksena prakrtih suyate sa-caracaram hetunanena kaunteya jagad viparivartate "This material nature, Prakriti [Durga], is working under My direction, O son of Kunti, and it is producing all moving and unmoving beings. By its rule this manifestation is created and annihilated again and again." - Gita 9.10 maya hi yasya jagad-anda-satani sute traigunya-tad-visaya-veda-vitayamana sattvavalambi-para-sattvam visuddha-sattvam govindam adi-purusam tam aham bhajami "I worship Govinda, the primeval Lord, who is the absolute substantive principle being the ultimate entity in the form of the support of all existence whose external potency [Maya, i.e. Durga] embodies the threefold mundane qualities, viz., sattva, rajas and tamas and diffuses the Vedic knowledge regarding the mundane world." - Brahma-samhita 5.41 Commentary by Srila Jiva Goswami: After thus describing the glories of the Lord's form, in the next two verses the author describes the externally manifested glories of the Lord. Maya is the external potency of the Lord. she does not have direct contact with the Lord. The material world is made of mixtures of the modes of goodness, passion and ignorance. When the modes of goodness is pure and not mixed with the other modes, then the spiritual potency is manifested. Thi s is described in the following words of the Visnu Purana: "May the Supreme Personality of Godhead, who is the purest of the pure, and in whom the material modes of goodness, passion and ignorance do not stay, be pleased with me." This topic is also explained in more detail in the Sri Bhagavata-sandarbhas. goloka-namni nija-dhamni tale ca tasya devi mahesa-hari-dhamasu tesu tesu te teo prabhava-nicaya vihitas ca yena govindam adi-purusam tam aham bhajami Lowest of all is located Devi-dhama [mundane world], next above it is Mahesa-dhama [abode of Mahesa]; above Mahesa-dhama is placed Hari-dhama [abode of Hari] and above them all is located Krsna's own realm named Goloka. I adore the primeval Lord Govinda, who has allotted their respective authorities to the rulers of those graded realms." - Brahma-samhita 5.43 Commentary of Bhaktisiddhanta Saraswati: srsti-sthiti-pralaya-sadhana-saktir eka chayeva yasya bhuvanani bibharti durga icchanurupam api yasya ca cestate sa govindam adi-purusam tam aham bhajami "The external potency Maya who is of the nature of the shadow of the cit potency, is worshiped by all people as Durga, the creating, preserving and destroying agency of this mundane world. I adore the primeval Lord Govinda in accordance with whose will Durga conducts herself." - Brahma-samhita 5.44 PURPORT (by Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Saraswati): Durga Devi is the shadow potency of the Lord.

During Brahma's night the universe experiences pralaya and most planets are merged into the universal waters, with the exception of a few of the highest lokas.

It is Srila Prabhupada's view that Sri Ramachandra's last appearance was not more than 2 million years ago (i.e. the previous Treta Yuga) [from Bhagavad Gita 4.1 purport]: Ikshvaku is one of Ramachandra's forefathers, and he was present roughly two million years ago according to Srila Prabhupada's view. Saying that Valmiki wrote the Ramayana in the 24th divya-yuga does not mean that Ramachandra did not appear in the present divya-yuga as well.

Sri Ramachandra appears in every Treta-yuga, but the Ramayana of Valmiki may have been written in the 24th Divya-yuga of the present manvantara (we are now in the 28th Divya-yuga). Valmiki was the Vyasa for the 24th Divya-yuga, and performed the task of compiling scriptures at that time.

The Srimad Bhagavatam is a book composed by the sage Vyasa approximately 5,000 years ago, and is considered the essence of all Vedic knowledge. It is stated that in this present age of darkness we will receive light in the form of the Srimad Bhagavatam. The Bhagavatam deals with ten primary subject matters, the ultimate being the complete shelter of everything, Lord Krishna. By daily reading and hearing about the Lord's pastimes in the Srimad Bhagavatam our heart will become purified and we will be filled with transcendental knowledge.

The Gita verse cited (16.20) only uses the words "janmani janmani", meaning birth after birth, indicating a trend of many lives. It does not mean eternally. The soul is eternally part and parcel of God (mamaivamsho jiva loke jiva-bhutah sanatanah) and thus there is always the possibility of it reviving its inherent divine nature. The Atma is eternally pure, situated beyond the three gunas (sattva, rajas, and tamas). It is only the consciousness (citta) that becomes poluted with the gunas. The paths of yoga, such as bhakti, purify the consciousness of the soul and resituate him in his constitutional position as a servant of Bhagavan. Even a fallen soul covered by ignorance (tamas) can be delivered as was the case with Valmiki Rishi, Prahlada, and many others. By receiving the causeless mercy of the Lord and His devotees the naradhama (lowest ammong mankind) can become narottama (the highest of man). Gita 16.19 does not contain the words "again and again", and Gita 16.20 does not contain the words "without ever attaining Me." The correct reading for 16.20 is simply "in that state they do not attain me." And the state being referenced lasts for many lives, i.e. "janmani janmani". Thus these verses fail to establish the concept of eternal damnation. A concept of literal eternal damnation in hell does not exist in Hinduism or in the Vedas.

Voyager 1 Craft Nears Edge of Solar System Scientists Differ on 'Termination Shock' By Kathy Sawyer Washington Post Staff Writer Thursday, November 6, 2003; Page A03 The spacecraft Voyager 1, launched in 1977, has become the first human emissary to approach the boundary region where the sun's domain ends and the vastness of interstellar space begins. The first signs came in August, when onboard instruments detected evidence that the spacecraft had entered a new environment fraught with bizarre cosmic rays and other characteristics not seen in its previous 26 years of space exploration, scientists said yesterday. But they disagreed on whether the 1,600-pound spacecraft has already felt the effects of "termination shock" -- a long-awaited milestone zone that the craft must cross as it leaves the solar system. One team of researchers concludes in today's issue of the journal Nature that it definitely has, while a second says not quite yet. Either way, "we will likely be surfing this termination shock over the next three or four years," said Edward Stone of the California Institute of Technology, lead Voyager project scientist. He called the observations "unusual and surprising. . . . It means there is something new to be learned as we begin exploring this final frontier of the solar system." Stone and several other scientists discussed the findings at a NASA briefing yesterday. The venerable Voyager continues to send back news of its remarkable travels even as it cruises more than 8 billion miles from Earth -- 90 times Earth's distance from the sun. Traveling at a velocity of 38,000 mph relative to the sun, the spacecraft is about three times farther out than the outermost planets, Pluto and Neptune. Transmissions from the craft take almost half an hour, traveling at the speed of light, to reach mission controllers at the Jet Propulsion Laboratory in Pasadena, Calif., which manages the mission for NASA. "If nothing breaks on the spacecraft, we can continue until 2020" when its power generators will die, Stone said. Termination shock is produced when the supersonic "wind" that flows continuously from the sun clashes with the distinctly different medium that fills the vastness of interstellar space beyond, said scientists who have eagerly anticipated their first opportunity to study this frontier. The solar wind -- a thin flow of electrically charged (ionized) gas -- expands continuously outward at velocities of about 1 million mph or more. It hollows out a sort of bubble in which the sun and its planets plow through the interstellar medium. When the solar wind runs into the thin cloud of ionized gas and dust that fills the space between the sun and other stars, it slows abruptly. As this supersonic flow goes subsonic, it creates a shock zone similar to the one that produces sonic booms when high-speed aircraft break the sound barrier. Astronomers estimate that the region of termination shock surrounds the solar system in a giant sphere at distances ranging between 85 and 120 times the Earth's 93 million-mile distance from the sun. The size of this zone presumably fluctuates with the sun's activity. The most obvious sign that Voyager has encountered termination shock would be evidence that the solar wind speed has dropped, the scientists said. Another clue would be high numbers of unusual cosmic rays and other particles. This is because, in theory, the shock wave should accelerate energetic particles in the zone by a factor of 10,000, forming a population of unusual cosmic rays. Voyager has sent back information that bears on these and other predicted phenomena, but the researchers differ on what it means. The spacecraft's main instrument for measuring the solar wind speed -- the plasma detector -- has been broken since 1980, but a team led by Stamatios M. "Tom" Krimigis of Johns Hopkins University's Applied Physics Laboratory in Laurel worked out another, less direct way to assess the solar wind speed using one of the four working instruments. "To our total amazement," Krimigis said, the data showed the speed had dropped by a factor of seven -- from about 700,000 mph to much less than 100,000 mph. A trailing sister ship, Voyager 2, registered no similar effects. This indicated that the measurements were most likely related to the environment around Voyager 1 and not to a fluctuation in the sun's activity, Krimigis said. Launched in the same year more than a quarter-century ago, Voyager 2 is traveling a different path and is almost 2 billion miles behind in the race toward the outskirts of the solar system. The region of termination shock enveloped Voyager for six months before expanding outward and leaving the spacecraft back in the flow of solar wind, the group said. However, a team led by Frank McDonald of the University of Maryland at College Park argued that Voyager was never in the shock zone. The group did detect increased numbers of weird cosmic rays and other particles, but said the patterns did not fit predictions and were instead a precursor event indicating that Voyager is "in the vicinity" of the shock zone. Stone said the dispute will soon be resolved by more data. "Getting there," McDonald noted, "is half the fun."

Srila Prabhupada presented the essential teachings of Sanatana Dharma and Bhagavad Gita perfectly, which is the path of bhakti-marga enunciated by Lord Krishna. It is not that he has given some watered down simplified version for the uneducated. It is your opinion that "Brahmins of India" have been following this path all along. Why only Brahmins? This castism is exactly what Srila Prabhupada preached against. The idea that people born in a particular community are perfect simply by virtue of their ancestry. The Lord's devotees are found in every corner of society, and those adversive to the Lord are likewise found everywhere, even among the Brahmins. Those who follow the pure principles of Krishna bhakti as found in the Gita are glorious, those who don't are infamous. The devotion to Krishna of the Brahmin caste in India is no greater than any other caste. And then you conclude with "How many of you have understood this first of all." You want to imply that those who do not accept your view are ignorant of Srila Prabhupada's true mission. I would suggest you undertake a serious study of Srila Prabhupada's teachings before you try to decide for him what his mission was about. As I mentioned before in another thread, your view is based on ignorance of Vedic tradition. Are you aware that Ramanuja (since you cite Andal) while living established the worship of himself in three life size murtis? And that in every Sri Vaishnava temple the deity of Ramanuja is worshipped. Are you aware that Raghavendra Swami's deity is worshipped in all of his temples. It is a timeless Vedic tradition that the Acharya is worshipped by his disciples. And for those coming in a sampradaya, the samsthapaka-acharya is established within their temple for worship. Worship of Srila Prabhupada by his disciples in their own temples is perfectly in line with Vedic tradition. I would suggest you study the two seriously and understand the teachings of the two before you comment based on what you saw while walking past their temple. The Sai Baba movement considers Sathya Sai Baba to be an incarnation of Krishna. The Hare Krishna movement considers Srila Prabhupada to be the Founder-Acharya of their movement, i.e. the Guru, and thus offer worship to him knowing he is a servant of Lord Krishna. The difference is quite clear. Where in the Gita does Lord Krishna advise anyone to throw away the money they have earned. This isn't a teaching of Lord Krishna, and it isn't a teaching of Srila Prabhupada. Thus the answer is that none of Srila Prabhupada's followers would be willing to do this. What did he teach? Srila Prabhupada taught that everything should be used in Lord Krishna's service. Thus the 100 dollar bill that you suggest we throw away would be used by Hare Krishna devotees in the service of Lord Krishna. And for the record thousands and thousands of Hare Krishna devotees have given all of their possessions in Lord Krishna's service, not just 100 dollars. So we should all look at ourselves in a mirror and ask us what we have given to Krishna. If all we gave was a few moments in our dream, then it would be best for us to not criticize others who have dedicated themselves to Lord Krishna's service, even if they have many faults and imperfections. You fail to see how blanket criticism of Hare Krishna devotees is an offense to those among them who are sincerely engaged in devotion. You want everyone to acknowledge your divine attributes and your intense devotion to the Lord, yet you refuse to acknowledge the same in others. Humility is the sign of a Vaishnava. The great devotee Haridas Thakur (a follower of Chaitanya Mahaprabhu) would not enter the Jagannatha Puri temple because he considered himself fallen and unclean. This is the sign of an advanced devotee, not someone who demands that others respect us and recognize our devotion to Krishna. You may find that the few devotees you have met in the Hare Krishna temple you visited lack this humility, but then look at yourself. You're in the same boat. Why else would you post in a public internet forum the faults of people you met while visiting a temple?! I have never heard of someone visit a temple (any temple), and then start an anonymous thread on the internet about how everyone there was so proud because they couldn't recognize their devotion to Krishna. Accept everything as a lesson and blessing from the Lord. I didnt see any geniune question in this thread. You started a thread about how other devotees you met are not actually devotees. A cultured person does not like to point out the flaws in others, but prefers to see the faults in oneself. In your little experience you have already created a blanket description of everyone associated with the Hare Krishna movement. You don't see this for the ignorance it is? But Vaishnava's should care for the feelings of others. Whether we intentionally offend or not, if we have hurt someone's feelings (especially a devotee of Lord Krishna) we should care about our actions. Just like Hare Krishna devotees reading this thread should care that you have felt offended when you visited their temple, in the same way you should care if Hare Krishna devotees feel offended by reading your remarks. All this, "I am a great devotee of Lord Krishna so I don't care what others think," is nothing by an inflated ego. The true devotees acknowledge themselves as the most fallen and offer all respects to others. This was the teaching of Chaitanya Mahaprabhu. Perhaps the "Brahmins of India" you speak of have taught you something different, but Mahaprabhu has taught us that the goal is to become as humble as the straw in the street. That is certainly a difficult goal to achieve, and we all must work towards it. But proclaiming ourselves as devotees and uncarring towards others feelings doesn't help us one bit towards this goal.

In the Gita Lord Krishna states the following: a-brahma-bhuvanal lokah punar avartino ’rjuna mam upetya tu kaunteya punar janma na vidyate "From the abode of Brahma downward, all places in the material world are places of misery wherein repeated birth and death take place. But one who attains to My abode, O son of Kunti, never takes birth again." Even the Brahma-loka is a place of death, and this is confirmed by Brahma-ji in the Srimad Bhagavatam. Hiranyakashipu requested Brahma-ji for immortality, and Brahma replied that even he was not immortal, therefore how could he make Hiranyakashipu immortal. Elsewhere Narada addressed Brahma as the Supreme, to which Brahma replied he is not the supreme but that he himself is worshipping Lord Vishnu. Brahma's life comes to an end when the maha-pralaya destroys the universe. According to the traditional calculations, 50 years of Brahma's life have expired, and another 50 years of Brahma's life are left. The Narayana Upanishad states: narayanad brahma jayate narayanad rudro jayate narayanad indro jayate narayanad prajapatih prajayante narayanad dvadasaditya rudra vasavah sarvani chandagmsi narayanad eva samutpadyante narayanad pravartante narayane praliyante "From Narayana came Brahma, Rudra, Indra, Prajapati. From Narayana came the twelve Adityas, the twelve Rudras, the twelve Vasus, all the Vedic metres and all the devas. Everything came from Narayana in the beginning and everything enters into Narayana at the end." eko vai narayana asin na brahma na isano napo nagni-samau neme dyav-aprithivi na nakshatrani na suryah “In the beginning of the creation there was only the Supreme Personality Narayana. There was no Brahma, no Shiva, no water, no fire, no moon, no stars in the sky, no sun.” In the Gita Lord Krishna states Himself to be the supreme source of everything: aham sarvasya prabhavo mattah sarvam pravartate iti matva bhajante mam budha bhava-samanvitah "I am the source of all. Everything emanates from Me. The wise who perfectly know this engage in My devotional service and worship Me with all their hearts." In commentary on this verse Srila Prabhupada has cited two verses from the smriti as follows: prajapatim ca rudram capy aham eva srijami vai tau hi mam na vijanito mama maya-vimohitau "The patriarchs, Shiva and others are created by Me, though they do not know that they are created by Me because they are deluded by My illusory energy." - Moksha-dharma narayanah paro devas tasmaj jatas caturmukhah tasmad rudro ’bhavad devah sa ca sarva-jnatam gatah "Narayana is the Supreme Personality of Godhead, and from Him Brahma was born, from whom Shiva was born." - Varaha Purana

Ramanuja advises Vaishnavas to perform shraddha ceremonies to set the proper example for the public. He instructs that the karma-kanda aspects of the ceremony are to be omitted (for example verses mentioning "higher birth" are replaced with the vaishnava's destination of Vaikuntha). For Vaishnava's, the shraddha ceremony is performed for fulfilling our duty (an offering to Lord Vishnu and the departed devotee), not to guarantee a higher destination for the devotee. It is also not necessary to perform the ceremony yearly, as the Vaishnava is already in Vaikuntha. Great devotees (and incarnations) such as Advaita Acharya and Srivas Pandit have also performed Shraddha for their departed fathers. Vaishnavas accept the practices of the Vedas because their performance is itself purifying and beneficial to all those involved. The shraddha ceremony helps us to remember the Lord's devotees, worship the Lord, feed the devotees and brahmanas, and engage our selves in hari-nama. Thus according to Ramanuja such practices should never be given up. Vaishnava's see the karmakandiya rituals and extract the essential devotional aspects from them for the benefit of society. Srila Prabhupada states, "The purpose of the shraddha ceremony is to please the Supreme Personality of Godhead, Lord Vishnu, so that after pleasing Him one may offer prasada to one’s forefathers and in this way make them happy." Materialists may perform this ceremony for material gains, but devotees do this with the ultimate purpose of pleasing Vishnu and the Vaishnavas. The fact that an activity is not necessary does not mean that the activity is not performed. The shraddha ceremony is not necessary for a departed Vaishnava, but still Vaishnavas perform the shraddha ceremony because it is auspicious and engages everyone in the service of the Lord and his devotees. If you study the various branches of Vaishnavism, you will find that virtually all schools perform the shraddha ceremony.

The particular quote was discussing the following verse: ye tu mUDhA durAcArA viyonau maithune ratAH puruSeSu suduSprajJAH klIbatvam upayAnti te The word duracara, or bad conduct indicates sinful activity, and in responce, the GALVA people have given the statement I quoted above. I won't get into the details, but anyone who considers this point honestly should be able to figure out what they said (that one type of homosex is bad, but another type of homosex is natural and not included in duracara). [i am leaving for Mayapur today to partake in the shraddha ceremony for Mahamadhusudana prabhu who passed away recently, so I will not be able to participate further in this thread.]

Here is one of my posts from an old thread which sums up my view: This discussion time and again always comes to this same strawman argument. No one has ever said that homosexual devotees shouldn't be respected, given compassion, allowed to enter our temples and perform devotion, etc. These GALVA people are trying to establish the absurd claim that homosexuality was natural in Vedic culture, that it is perfectly in line with Chaitanya Vaishnavism, that Prabhupada in a secret unrecorded conversation sanctioned union of gay couples, that it is natural and not sinful for homosexuals to engage in homosex acts, and the best of all, homosexuals are actually more advanced because they are automatocally detached from family life. They repeatedly distort the statements of scripture to fool the scripturally uneducated and innocent, all while accusing Srila Prabhupada of being ignorant and uninformed. This has already been discussed a hundred times on this forum, so I will just post a link to my previous article on this matter: http://www.indiadivine.com/galva-reply.htm And there are a lot of devotees that smoke, eat meat, etc. Like all other vices, they should perform their devotion humbly while trying to purify themselves. They should not try to claim that their vices are actually virtues that were glorified in Vedic culture. [And from another post:] Some of the things I object to are as follows: 1) Claiming a vice to be a virtue, and then trying to propagate it as harmonious and beneficial to Sri Chaitanya's path of pure devotion. 2) Claiming our spiritual master, Sri A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada, in a secret unrecorded conversation, authorized some disciples to accept homosexual marriages. This is a great insult and offense to Srila Prabhupada. His position on this matter is not a secret. It is clearly established in his books, letters and conversations. I am sure some here would be willing to call him homophobic for his views as well. 3) Misrepresenting the Vedic teachings through various deceptive means to propagate that homosexuality was commonly accepted in ancient India. For example, they claim the word "napumsaka" means "homosexual" when in reality it does not mean anything even remotely similar. Even today this word is still in use in nearly all Indic languages, and it refers to one who is born with no sexual organs, it indicates one who has a physical deformaty. 4) That in the Srimad Bhagavatam, the word "nartaka" refers to homosexuals. The word is used throughout the Puranas to refer to "dancers". Anyone with the slightest knowledge of sanskrit understands this. Any claim that this word refers to homosexuals is an intentional distortion.

Actually I didn't give any evidence because I find the topic so repugnant. Just so no one thinks I am a liar, let me offer a few quotes. There are many other such statements in the GALVA writings, but I would prefer to not quote them in this forum. The following is from the GALVA site: They want us to believe that homosexuals are "aloof from attachment". Is this sanity? There are modern studies on the promiscuity of homosexuals, and it has been pointed out that the average homosexual male has 2,000 sexual partners in their life time, as compared to 7 for a heterosexual male. Are we to believe that homosexuals are somehow superior, free from attachments, and free from the distractions to spiritual life?! Oddly enough, this last quote seems to have been edited out of the GALVA site recently, but it can still be found on old GALVA mirror sites. The other point to note about GALVA articles is that they lack any scholarship at all. They make up definitions for words that are not found in any sanskrit dictionary. For example they claim nartaka as used in the Bhagavatam means "homosexual" when the word actually means "dancer" and has no connection to homosexuality at all. Sanskrit scholars such as Hridayananda Das Goswami have pointed out their completely ridiculous translations, but they refuse to accept they are wrong despite the fact that none of these authors know sanskrit. They have an agenda (to propogate homosexuality) and they will do anything, including distorting Vedic scriptures and finding fault with Srila Prabhupada, in order to establish their agenda.

I hate to have to bring this point up again, but the problem with GALVA is not that they are homosexuals. The problem is that they want to claim that homosexuality was considered natural in Vedic culture, that certain activities of homosex are not sinful (I won't go into details, but this is Amara Das's view), and that Prabhupada, in a secret unrecorded conversation, said that homosexual relationships are fine (despite the fact that every single recording of Srila Prabhupada on this subject states the opposite). These people have gone so far as to say homosexuals were considered spiritually more advanced in Vedic culture, because they were free from mundane family attachments. These people want to live in a victim mentality because it makes them feel special. No one is stoping them from coming to ISKCON temples and engaging in devotional service. Last time I checked, no one asks you if you are gay when you come through the temple door, just like no one asks if you have a girl friend. Unfortunately these people want to proudly advertise their gayness as a badge of honor. This is certainly not the proper mood of devotees of Mahaprabhu.

Sriman Maha Madhusudana Prabhu Passed Away BY GOURI DASI EDITORIAL, Oct 14 (VNN) — This letter is to inform that on Saturday 11th, our godbrother and friend Sriman Maha Madhusudana prabhu left his body in a tragic car accident on his way to San Diego from Los Angeles. He was a very well know devotee in many temples. He joined Iskcon in 1980 in Bengal and he did lots of service in Kolkatta. In the beginning of the 90's he came to the USA and he served in Laguna Beach and Los Angeles temple. HH Jayapataka Swami said that Madhusudana prabhu always kept his faith in guru and Krishna. He also appreciated many of the nice services he has done and his good qualities as a preacher. In Calcutta he was serving in the life member department, he was temple comander and was the guide for the pilgrims to Mayapur. In LA he served as a pujari and a cook and other services. His Holiness is also sending his special prayers and blessings to Maha Madhusudana's wife Pushti Devi Dasi and their children and pray to Sri Sri Radha Madhava to help them to overcome this difficult moment.