Jahnava Nitai Das

The scriptures instruct us not to look for the source of a clean river, nor to look for defects in the early life of the saints. What one has done before becoming realized (or manifesting realization) is irrelevant. Bilvamangala was attached to a prostitute, but later that prostitute instructed him in devotional life and he became a pure devotee. One should not continue to point out the flaw that he used to be attached to a prostitute. Vivekananda on the other hand performed sinful activities while claiming to follow spirituality. In Ramakrishna mission, even today, they cook chicken meals for the Swamijis, and the Swamis do not have to follow any rules or regulations. Swami Vivekananda did not consider eating meat as sinful, nor smoking and taking intoxicants. This is clearly different from someone like Bilvamangala or Bhaktivinoda engaging in sinful activity prior to realization of truth. Bhaktivinoda Thakur acknowledges the flaw in his actions and laments his fallen condition, whereas Vivekananda does not accept his actions as faulty or wrong. Realization has nothing to do with a ritual or a date any more than your upanayama made you realized in Brahman. We are refering to the point of self-realization (a point which we can not particularly identify), not the date he received his family priests initiation. Bhaktivinoda Thakur (by his own statements) was an impersonalist philosophy prior to taking to the path of Krishna bhakti. His writing books or not is really not relevant, as he was a writer and scholar. We should keep in mind the Bhagavatams statements regarding the liberated souls, that they appear as ordinary conditioned men until necessary to manifest their divine light.

He can hold his conch with His eye if he wants. Not sure what the word for it is.

And brahman also refers to the living entity (prajnanam brahma, aham brahmasmi, etc.), as well as everything else in existence (sarvam khalv idam brahma). You're just arbitrarily pulling a definition out of a hat.

...and Bilvamangala was attached to a prostitute. You are looking in the wrong direction. [This message has been edited by jndas (edited 07-15-2002).]

Actually it is described not as blissful but as "full of happiness" (sukhasya)and "immortal" or "nectarean" (amritasya). Concepts which are accepted as attributes of brahmajyoti by Gaudiya vaishnavas. Furthermore, the brahmajyoti is full of bliss compared to the dualities of the mundane world. But it is a bliss of another category than that which is the nature of the soul. Nuetrality (freedom from suffering) is the foundation for ananda; thus the liberated devotee experiences both.

The soul is eternally a servant of Narayana; that is its constututional nature. Liberation is attaining that constitutional position of service to the Lord. Thus vaishnavism (worship of Lord Vishnu) is the ultimate goal of the living entity.

Sai Baba thinks he's the source of all incarnations as well. So what, anyone can think of themselves as such. It has nothing to do with the Gita and Bhagavatam, so why wonder why it contradicts these scriptures?

In all cases the last 'a' is supposed to be pronounced when one is using sanskrit words. In Hindi many of the same words are also present, but without the final 'a'. Generally we are not refering to Hindi words, so we should not follow related conventions.

Regarding Bhaktivinoda Thakur, his eating fish was prior to his manifesting the qualities of a sat-guru. The Bhagavatam says that just as fire may remain hidden in burning coals while covered by ash, so in the same way the liberated souls appear hidden in the material world. When the time comes, the coals manifest a blazing fire. Bhaktivinoda Thakur never sanctioned the eating of meat. Rather he was playing the role of a conditioned soul who gradually developed bhakti and purity. In reality he was eternally pure, but he manifested this external appearance. In his autobiography he describes how he was a mayavadi, etc., in his early years. These are the ashes that cover the burning coals. At no time did he ever say it was alright toeat fish or meat. Rather he took the position that "I was so fallen, I was attached to material sinful activities." [This message has been edited by jndas (edited 07-12-2002).]

Today is the Ratha Yatra festival in Puri. If you are in India, you can see it on television on Durdarshana-1. I'm not sure of the time of the broadcast. Usually they will broadcast live for a few hours.

In the initial stages of sadhana one must believe on something beyond his percption. God, the spiritual plane, etc., are not verifiable immediately and require one to rely on certain types of faith (which may be based on other perceivable experiences).

Your own stated logic defeats this statement as walking on water and the other miracles have nothing to do with devotion. It would be like saying Ford was a better devotee because he made cars, something jesus never did. There is no connection between the two points.

Everything is cyclical. There are times of advancement, and times of degradation. Generally after a pralaya, or destruction, human society is left in a primitive state. In a general sense one could say yes, but God also manifests in every species. Yes, they live on higher and lower planes of existence, perceptible only to those attuned to those dimensions. Their physical features vary greatly, some like humans, some like animals, some in-between, and some indescribable (beyond our experiences).

Like a tortoise withdrawing five limbs into its shell, those who Restrain the five senses in one life, will find safe shelter for seven. -Tirukkural 13: 126

By old style, I mean early ISKCON. The devotees involved have the early ISKCON inspiration and dedication. The carry out their preaching from a storefront.

Here is their website: www.virtualtemple.org

I thought the San Jose gaudiya matha was Chaitanya Sarasvata Matha, Govinda Maharaja's disciples. The ISKCON temple in San Jose is very nice, old style. The devotees there are very dedicated and work hard and sincerely. They would certainly be a very beneficial association for anyone. They have a website somewhere, but I can't seem to recall the exact name. [This message has been edited by jndas (edited 07-02-2002).]

Some people want to link love of God with absence of pain (i.e. karmic reactions). This is not necessarily true, as there are various qualities of love, and accordingly papa-karmas will remain and some must be exhausted through fruition.

Regarding unfertilized eggs, it is partially a matter of ignorant foods effect on our consciousness. One can just as well eat the dead body of an animal (one that was not killed, but died naturally). One will not incure sin in most respects, but the negative effects of lower modes will contaminate one's consciousness and bring one to eventually harm oneself and others. Milk, according to our beliefs, is not an ignorant food, and is not the dead lump of flesh (which an unfertilized egg is more or less). To understand this point requires some amount of purification to experience the results. The same is the case with onion and garlic. Those who eat them cannot experience how they have negative effects on one's mind and body. But generally those who have avoided eating them for a long time can immediately notice the effects after even accidentally eating them.

Maybe there is a divorce Rk as well.

We are ourselves all offenders to varying degrees. Some of us comit offenses directly to God knowingly, others inadvertantly, or due to material attachements. Ultimately we are just another category of offender. Only one who is not an offender is really qualified to punish an offender.

And some people use the terms divya-yuga and chatur-yuga to refer to the same concept of maha-yuga above. If you want a nice reference for time concepts, refer to Srimad Bhagavatam third canto chapter 11 - "Calculations of time from the Atom". There are some experiments you can do if you really doubt the measurements. But you should have sufficient metal pots, hot needles, leaves, and lakes to conduct them.

Actually the concept of love God or suffer is from another religion. In Vedic thought, one can deny God's existence and still enjoy through punya karmas (pious activities). By the wonderful deluding potency of God, one will actually think one is enjoying despite being in an unnatural state of existence.

Yet he remains affected as us. We are vibhinnamsha expansions of God. Krishna is everything, including the Jivas. Yet the parts are never the whole. [This message has been edited by jndas (edited 06-28-2002).]

Latest HED (June 22, 2002) TODAY, Friday we're in Cuenca, Ecuador. Its 6,000 ft, cold mountain air, but nice preaching. Since last HED we did little more preaching in La Paz and then went to Cochabamba in Bolivia. Ramaprasada, former member of Parliament is converting his tri-plex into a temple. About half done and some regular programs. Vere nice but only one night there. THEN ... <THEN> ... Began our version of Walt Disney's, "Mr. Toad's Wild Ride to Ecuador": At 5:45AM we were supposed to leave the house/temple in Cochabamba to go to the airport. But Ramaprasada couldn't find his keys so he ran off down the road while we stayed with the devotees. He found a sleeping taxi driver who drove us to the airport, but at the entry gate one tire went flat. We took the luggage in hand and ran the final one kilomete. Arrived in La Paz 45 minutes later with only 45 minutes connect time. Mathuresha was waiting with our suitcase. Stood in line at Taca and came to the desk: Your flight to Lima is confirmed but not from Lima to Santiago. What! We confirmed both sectors. I'm sorry, you´ll have to go through customs in Peru and try to get on Stand-by. Ayee! Chiuauaaaaa! Arrived in Lima and there we're devotees there looking for their lost luggage: Hey, Hanuman Swami. Are you going to Guayaquil? The devotees want to know. HpS> Ayee! Yes, in two hours if I can get standby. Devotees> O.K. We'll let them know and help you. HpS> (Thank you Krsna!) (The Immigration guys in La Paz we're hard: Are you religious? Why are you in La Paz!!) We got on Stand-by with only one seat not claimed one hour before loading. The guy whose seat it was came up just after they'd given us the ticket. We ran to the gate not looking back. Ugh! Plane then went from Lima to Quito to Guayaquil!}Phew! Five airports, 11 hours door-to-door. In Guayaquil the weather was warm. There´s a nice park along the river front. Full devotee and outside programs. Lunch is 25 preparations. Its hard to figure out what to eat. Rice and beans! Went to the ocean for Ganga-puja and Mother Ganga gave us a very nice bamboo stick for our gong. Best gift in a <<long-time>>. Ganga-mayi Ki Jai! Now we are in Cuenca in the mountains for Nama-hatta programs and then back to Guayaquil for Sunday feast. Next week we'll report from Chile. Feel like a small part of a big machine, nice machine. Srila Prabhupada, Ki Jai! CAL -Complete CALendar next HED (29 June). - Mexico still not fixed. Maybe Texas, Mexico as soon as we reach USA (24Jul). Waiting for news of Mexico-Madrid-Mexico ticket prices. - No news from Nestor about Kartik tour. ABC *Kindergarten - Still keeping 25 rounds. Tough/nice. So many things whirling around us, even death, that we often have to chant just to do material things. JAPA MALA A smooth as sali-grama silas They serve Krsna in five kinds of lilas. Beads, one-hundred and eight, Though only wood you are great. *Primary - NOI seminar in Guayaquil. *Secondary - Got a sample of the VIHE Bh. Sastri Exam for the VMP Refresher course. Now have to exam it and see if we can work toward it. - KB, Krsna is just Marrying Five Queen's. Next week interesting talk between K and Rukmini, K's family in Dvaraka etc. *Graduate - SAR, Canto 8, 14 Manvantars. "K knew the inhabitants of Dvaraka would be afraid to enter the tunnel, therefore He asked them to rermain outside. Then He himself entered the dark tunnel to find Rksa, Jambavan". Interesting, the Dvarakavasi's and the Brijavasis. Brijavasis ready to die entering Yamuna to save K from Kaliya. I´m still very attached to matter. Gotta get out. ASM Our number-one focus is still this HED. Please help. AGT Gaurava Prabhu for his steady help in posting it! We are keeping a Wanderin Miscreants Journal on Bhakta CIDCO and can send it July 24th when we reach USA. CAMP(us) -ISV: There is a committee to find a larger building. How was CCD's house warming? Jaganmangal is better. Subal is working 24 hours a day for Krsna and also planted some flowers for Radha Madana-Gopal. -Nimsar: Raktak is reporting little rough times in getting started. But I'm pushing to keep to our agreement to try it out for six months. SMS ("Science Made Stupid" by Guy (Uncle) Gismo, Warp World IX) Ecuador Social Sciences. The economy here is better than the USA. Bananas are 100 pounds a dollar. You can live for $450/month nicely. Applying the Street Dog Index things are O.K. They are well fed. Clean and lots of them (bottom of the food chain). Before the government was robbing the people by banks etc. etc. but now the "economy is good". Haw! Haw! Haw! Be careful. That's just a trick so you'll earn a lot of money again and then they will find another way to rob you. In USA lower class is mostly driven out on the street of hovels and then take to drugs and sex to survive for some time, but die quickly. Hence, no "problem" with lower class like in Ecuador etc. (Fifth Class). Also true of dogs. No street dogs in USA. But its not so great in Ecuador either. Like Arizona 1905. Robbers assault people in the street. Guards with pistols, shotguns, rifles and even machine guns in the department store portals. GT - Nothing. LTE - Nothing. We answer the letters with URGENT in the Subject field first! Please write with news. It helps a lot. Your fallen servants, HpS / ASA Whoop! Whoop! Oink! Oink!