suchandra

Anglicans back Darwin over 'noisy' creationists This says it all about how institutionalised 'Christianity' has been hijacked. Darwin’s theory, still unproven – hence the 'missing link' – is now being used by the Church of England to argue against one of the foundations of early Christian teachings.

Anglicans back Darwin over 'noisy' creationists

Alexandra Frean and Lewis Smith – Times Online September 13, 2008

The Church of England expressed deep concerns last night about the spread of creationist views as it prepared to unveil a website promoting the evolutionary views of Charles Darwin.

Anglican leaders fear that “noisy” advocates of a literal interpretation of the Bible - especially in the United States, where even the Republican vice-presidential candidate, Sarah Palin, is a vocal supporter - are infecting the perception of Christianity worldwide.

The Church will launch the website on Monday, a few weeks after the 150th anniversary of Darwin's first public proposal of natural selection and amid growing controversy over the teaching of creationism in schools.

The Rev Professor Michael Reiss, a biologist and director of education at the Royal Society, provoked a furore this week when he called for creationism to be treated in science lessons as a legitimate “world-view”.

The Church of England weighed into the debate yesterday when a Church House spokesman admitted that the treatment of Darwin's theory of evolution by Victorian clerics was wrong.

He said that science and religions were “perfectly compatible” and attacked creationism as a strand of Christianity that created a false impression of the Church as a whole.

The Rev Dr Malcolm Brown, one of the inspirations for the website, said: “We felt there would be public interest, particularly because of the rise of creationism in the US.

“Christian attitudes don't have to be either a complete swallowing of Darwin and everything that has been done in his name, on the one hand, and, on the other, the complete rejection of scientific method with a literal interpretation of the Bible.

“A culture that doesn't have a great deal of historic understanding of the Christian faith can easily characterise all Christians as being like the most noisy ones.”

A church spokesman added: “Creationism should not be taught as a scientifically based theory but could be included in discussion of the development of scientific ideas down the ages or in RE.”

Rasmandala Das, of the Oxford Centre for Hindu Studies, said that the Hindu approach was to teach all different views of the creation across the curriculum.

Members of the humanist movement dismissed creationism as “simply wrong” but agreed that religious believers must be engaged by science teachers rather than ignored.

Andrew Copson, director of education for the British Humanist Association, said that Professor Reiss was right to think it was better to take the opportunity to debate the issue than to belittle children by telling them: “Shut up, that's for RE. Should a teacher say, ‘Shut up, that's for RE'? Obviously not,” he said. “If a child raises it in a classroom you don't say, ‘Shut up'. You say, ‘That's not a scientific perspective.' It can be an opportunity to demonstrate what a scientific perspective is.”

Tahir Alam, of the Muslim Council of Britain, expressed concern that there was a rising trend of intolerance towards religious beliefs and said: “Secular atheism is getting very dogmatic.” Mr Alam said of creationism in science lessons: “In any educational context, if children raise questions and have beliefs which are different to the teachers, people should not be dogmatic about not discussing it.”

However, Rabbi Dr Tony Bayfield, head of the Movement for Reform Judaism, expressed doubts: “It would be as unacceptable for Judaism for schools to teach creationism in science lessons as it would be for them to teach the Dawkins secular fundamentalist view that Darwin and God are incompatible.”

www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/faith/article4744194.ece

Leading scientist urges teaching of creationism in schools,

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/science/article4734767.ece

Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Maharaja on University:

“If I remain studying with careful attention at the College, then extreme pressure will be brought upon me to enter family life, but if I am considered to be foolish and inefficient, then no one will put such an inducement upon me for becoming so engaged. By this consideration, I left the Sanskrit College, and, in order to maintain my life for the service of Hari, I was desirous of getting an honest occupation which I could perform with the intention of earning a humble income.”

Illustration by Sorit

OPINION

How To Kill A University

Political interests have crippled an experiment to cultivate Hindi

http://www.outlookindia.com/full.asp?fodname=20080922&fname=Column+Neelabh+(F)&sid=1

Neelabh Mishra

How do you redeem a 'doomed >university'? It's a challenge that should worry Vibhuti Narayan Rai, the new vice-chancellor of the Mahatma Gandhi International Hindi University, a former policeman and writer, known for his candid novel on communal riots—Shahar Mein Curfew. I borrow the term 'doomed university' from the founding V-C of the university, Ashok Vajpeyi, a former bureaucrat and litterateur. In private conversation, Vajpeyi would say, "There are three kinds of universities in India: university, deemed university and doomed university." Needless to say, he considered his Mahatma Gandhi Antarrashtriya Hindi Vishwavidyalaya doomed. Vajpeyi's definition could just have been the odd poetic conceit, had the fact-finding committee of the Union human resources development ministry, headed by the eminent historian Bipan Chandra, not concluded that the affairs of the university were indeed in a big mess. For this, the committee squarely puts the blame on the ministry, specifically as it functioned during the NDA regime, and the second V-C of the university, G. Gopinathan. Both Rai and the ministry would do well to heed the Bipan Chandra committee's report, especially its recommendations.

But first, Rai is faced with a peculiar problem. The university's visitor, the president of India, has put in abeyance all decisions taken by Gopinathan and his handpicked committee which functioned as the executive, though illegally. The university meanwhile has functioned through actions emanating from the decisions put in abeyance. What does Rai do with things that are now a fait accompli?

The university suffered from a congenital contradiction, something that even the Bipan Chandra committee underlined when it said, "A major problem the university faced at its outset was regarding the nature of its mandate...how is it to be different from 200 or so Hindi departments (of various universities) or Hindi Pracharini Sabhas (organisations meant to popularise Hindi)?" True, a university is supposed to be a whole universe of knowledge as embodied in its numerous disciplines, departments, colleges, schools/centres etc. A language can be a medium of instruction and discourse in this universe of knowledge and also a discipline of study itself, as literature or grammar. But how can it be treated as a whole universe of knowledge that a university is supposed to represent? The Bipan Chandra committee acknowledges that the first executive, consisting of a galaxy of distinguished intellectuals, and the first

V-C grappled creatively with this question: "Both evolved a certain understanding of the vision of the university, viz. to develop Hindi as an international language of discourse in social science, humanities and sciences and to link Hindi with other Indian and world languages."

This would, of course, have required excellent teachers, infrastructure, innovative courses and activities. But our governments have long been accustomed to playing jokes in the name of Hindi. For instance, the university is located in Wardha, far away from its linguistic and intellectual catchment area, where no infrastructure existed, not even a proper bookshop. The Bipan Chandra committee records how the university, since its inception in 1997, was denied basic infrastructure, including an academic council and visitor's nominee, without whose presence it could make no worthwhile appointments, despite repeated urgings by its executive, the first V-C and the first chancellor Nirmal Verma, a distinguished Hindi writer.Yet, Vajpeyi managed to initiate some worthwhile innovations like a rigorous admission process, courses such as non-violence and peace studies and women's studies, compiling photocopied course material and inviting eminent people as guest lecturers for such courses, a linguistic mapping of the 53 dialects of the Hindi region, preparation of the latest scientific grammar and lexicon of Hindi and noteworthy publishing activity. Most of this was reversed by Gopinathan. The Bipan Chandra committee did not find him administratively or intellectually equipped for his job. He was obviously a political nominee of the last regime, though the report does not explicitly state this. His name was recommended by an ex-judge on the search committee whose justification for being there was hard to explain. Despite the committee's detailed record of Gopinathan's sins of omission and commission, things were allowed to go on till Gopinathan retired earlier this year. Between Vajpeyi and Gopinathan, 10 months had gone by without a V-C; between Gopinathan and Rai, four months elapsed.

Idiocy is no ground for action against a V-C, a top bureaucrat had said, citing autonomy when some executive members had confronted him with certain mindless decisions at the university. Indeed, it is generally the stuff our higher education is grounded in.

50 Greatest Books

The Mahabharata

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20080912.w50booksTheMahabharata/BNStory/Entertainment/home

WENDY DONIGER

From Saturday's Globe and Mail

September 12, 2008 at 10:34 PM EDT

To begin with, The Mahabharata is certainly one of the world's biggest books, a text of about 75,000 verses or three million words, some 15 times the combined length of the Hebrew Bible and the New Testament, or seven times the Iliad and the Odyssey combined, and a hundred times more interesting.

It is an epic poem composed in ancient India, some time between 300 BC and 300 AD (it takes a long time to produce three million words), in Sanskrit, the language of the sacred texts of Hinduism as well as of the secular literature of the court, related to Latin and ancient Greek and functioning, rather like medieval Latin, as a kind of lingua franca among the many vernacular languages of India.

It is attributed to a sage named Vyasa, who produces not only the text but the two grandfathers of the protagonists, impregnating two queens on behalf of their dead husband. The central story is about five princes, whose grandfather is Vyasa and whose fathers are gods.

They are forced into exile for 12 years, during which they have many adventures, listen to hundreds of wonderful stories, and return to fight a cataclysmic battle in which almost everyone on both sides is killed.

As the text was retold over the centuries, both in Sanskrit and in translation into more accessible spoken languages of India, hundreds of other stories, as well as philosophical arguments, were attracted to it as to a magnet, so that it became a great compendium of myth, folklore and social theory, a kind of walking encyclopedia of Hinduism.

It grows out of the oral tradition and then grows back into the oral tradition.

It flickers back and forth between Sanskrit manuscripts and village storytellers, each adding new gemstones to the old mosaic, constantly reinterpreting it.

The loose construction of the text gives it a quasi-novelistic quality, open to new forms as well as new ideas, inviting different ideas to contest one another, to come to blows, in the pages of the texts.

The text itself boasts, with justification, "What is here is also found elsewhere, but what is not here is found nowhere else."

The conversation between the incarnate god Krishna and Prince Arjuna on the eve of the great battle has become one of the central texts of Hinduism, called the Song of God (Bhagavad Gita).

Other parts of the text, too, have been lifted out and become a part of the cultural tradition, such as the story of King Nala and his wife Damayanti, who become separated when he becomes a compulsive gambler and loses his kingdom. Eventually they are reunited.

The five princes marry one woman, Draupadi, who is worshipped as a goddess in India to this day, particularly in the south.

It has been well said that no one in India ever hears The Mahabharata for the first time.

Its greatness lies also in its dark moral complexity. The real protagonist of the poem is neither any of the human heroes nor any of the many gods who take part in the story, but dharma, the moral and religious law of the Hindus.

Dharma is also a god, who fathers the eldest of the five princes and appears from time to time to test him, usually in disguise (once as a dog, an animal that Hindus regard as unclean, a stunning form for the religious law to take).

Time and again when a character finds that every available moral choice is the wrong choice, or when one of the good guys does something obviously very wrong, he will mutter, or be told, "Dharma is subtle," thin and slippery as a fine silk sari, elusive as a will o' the wisp, internally inconsistent as well as disguised, hidden, masked.

People try again and again to do the right thing, and fail and fail, until they no longer know what the right thing is. The heroes are tragically flawed, each of them undone by the shadow side of his particular virtue.

The Mahabharata deconstructs dharma, exposing the inevitable chaos of the moral life. In particular, it exposes the horror of war, even while it justifies it as part of the inevitable violence of human life. This, too, is its greatness.

Wendy Doniger is Mircea Eliade Professor of the History of Religions at the University of Chicago, and author of many books about Indian literature, including "Dreams, Illusion, and Other Realities" and a translation of the "Kamasutra."

Bhagavad Gita 2.9.43 ?

 

Come on. Hire an English Major Editor.

Hire a team part time student Sanskrit Scholars to spell check the cut-n-paste work, like I do.

Well spoken, but without people making typing mistakes of such kind both you and Harry would have never posted anything on this forum and valuable content would be badly missing. So see it positive.

Srimad-Bhagavatam 2.9.43

The great sage Nārada also inquired in detail from his father, Brahmā, the great-grandfather of all the universe, after seeing him well satisfied.

PURPORT

The process of understanding spiritual or transcendental knowledge from the realized person is not exactly like asking an ordinary question from the schoolmaster. The schoolmasters in the modern days are paid agents for giving some information, but the spiritual master is not a paid agent. Nor can he impart instruction without being authorized. In the Bhagavad-gītā (4.34), the process of understanding transcendental knowledge is directed as follows:

tad viddhi praṇipātena

paripraśnena sevayā

upadekṣyanti te jñānaḿ

jñāninas tattva-darśinaḥ

Arjuna was advised to receive transcendental knowledge from the realized person by surrender, questions and service. Receiving transcendental knowledge is not like exchanging dollars; such knowledge has to be received by service to the spiritual master. As Brahmājī received the knowledge directly from the Lord by satisfying Him fully, similarly one has to receive the transcendental knowledge from the spiritual master by satisfying him. The spiritual master's satisfaction is the means of assimilating transcendental knowledge. One cannot understand transcendental knowledge simply by becoming a grammarian. The Vedas declare (Śvetāśvatara Upaniṣad 6.23):

yasya deve parā bhaktir

yathā deve tathā gurau

tasyaite kathitā hy arthāḥ

prakāśante mahātmanaḥ

[ŚU 6.23]

"Only unto one who has unflinching devotion to the Lord and to the spiritual master does transcendental knowledge become automatically revealed." Such relationship between the disciple and the spiritual master is eternal. One who is now the disciple is the next spiritual master. And one cannot be a bona fide and authorized spiritual master unless one has been strictly obedient to his spiritual master. Brahmājī, as a disciple of the Supreme Lord, received the real knowledge and imparted it to his dear disciple Nārada, and similarly Nārada, as spiritual master, handed over this knowledge to Vyāsa and so on. Therefore the so-called formal spiritual master and disciple are not facsimiles of Brahmā and Nārada or Nārada and Vyāsa. The relationship between Brahmā and Nārada is reality, while the so-called formality is the relation between the cheater and cheated. It is clearly mentioned herewith that Nārada is not only well behaved, meek and obedient, but also self-controlled. One who is not self-controlled, specifically in sex life, can become neither a disciple nor a spiritual master. One must have disciplinary training in controlling speaking, anger, the tongue, the mind, the belly and the genitals. One who has controlled the particular senses mentioned above is called a gosvāmī. Without becoming a gosvāmī one can become neither a disciple nor a spiritual master. The so-called spiritual master without sense control is certainly the cheater, and the disciple of such a so-called spiritual master is the cheated.

One should not think of Brahmājī as a dead great-grandfather, as we have experience on this planet. He is the oldest great-grandfather, and he is still living, and Nārada is also living. The age of the inhabitants of the Brahmaloka planet is mentioned in the Bhagavad-gītā. The inhabitants of this small planet earth can hardly calculate even the duration of one day of Brahmā.

Dear Amlesh,Avinash, Bart, Bija, Justin, Jeffster, Radhamukunda, Kaisersose, Ravindran, Dark Warrior, Suchandra, Ramana Dasi, Radhika Kulkarni and last but not the least, my favorite Old Buddy Bhaktjan,

 

It was a pleasurable journey with all of you people. I am on a long vacation and may or maynot be available for a period of time. Anyway, I enjoyed the company of so many seekers of Truth and eventhough we had many heated arguements, the love in our hearts for one another grew so much. In my case, it was especially for Bija. A nice party to be a part of. I thank the Administrator to have allowed to air the differences so freely on debate. I can with my experience tell that this is the only forum where there are so many knowledgeable people or people who are striving for knowledge instead of bluntly posting some website content and gather opinion which has mostly been the case of other forums which pose to be world forums.

 

I cannot wish anything coz I know only Happy People can be the members of this forum but to be more formal 'Happy Soul Searching..'

Thanks a lot for your valuable comments and providing spiritual content. Since you're in India, I'm looking for two books of Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Maharaja, Surya Siddhanta and Bhakti Bhavan Panjika, would be nice to know if they're available.

Snoring 'can damage a child's ability to learn'

http://www.hindu.com/thehindu/holnus/008200809090323.htm

Tuesday, September 9, 2008 : 0250 Hrs

London (PTI): It's often claimed that children who snore are at a greater risk of getting a heart disease in adulthood. Now, a new study has revealed that the disorder can also damage their ability to learn.

Researchers in Britain have found that kids who snore actually damage their ability to concentrate and study as the irregular night-time breathing stunts the mental development of the toddlers.

They have based their findings on an analysis of two groups of kids -- one snorers and the other non-snorers. In fact, in their study, the researchers compared the attention spans and brain activity of those who had problems with snoring with those who did not, British newspaper 'The Independent' reported.

The sample of 66 three- to seven-year-olds who were waiting for a tonsillectomy because of their snoring -- and had interrupted sleep -- all had shorter attention spans, reduced energy, decreased mental flexibility and poorer language skills than the unaffected children, the study found.

"We found that children with sleep disorders had more problems with the tasks, but their ability to do the same tasks improved following a tonsillectomy," lead researcher Dr Catherine Hill of Southampton University said. The study has been presented at the European Sleep Research Society Congress this week.

You write and prabably talk so much nonsene. Here you go, ring Melbourne Temple and tell them that 61-03-96995122

 

Actually at the end of Gauragopala's article he explains that the Temple does not perform the nonsense demigod worship you talk about or Kurma not the chef suggests

 

Also kurma (not the chef) has got it very wrong, in the cars they are installing photos of prabhupada, Pancha tattva and Lord Nrsingha FREE OF CHARGE to help them remember the Lord, I have such photos in my car and most devotees do to remind them of Krishna all the time and if there is an accident

 

Anyway Suchandra, your on my ignore list, you can write what ever you want, at least I will not be reading you miss directed mind.

Hari Bol

Nothing new, I'm on your and Aswathama's ignore lists since you both started to post here. As soon someone quotes Prabhupada's he's on the ignore list of so many people - a sure sign that I'm on the right path.

I have no problem you offending me, however, calling Kurma prabhu a liar I will not excuse.

Monstrous Hoax Continues

BY: KURMA DASA

Sep 08, AUSTRALIA (SUN) — Back in 1984, Ravindra Svarupa das was commissioned by the GBC to reform ISKCON's initiation system, a system which had misled sincere devotees all over the world. We now know this system as the Zonal Acarya system. Ravindra Svarupa's small group of people got together and the GBC said that they would need three signatures to empower Ravindra's new model acarya system. This is the un-authorized system that we have today, in 2008.

It is most amazing that the three signatures were that of none other than Satsvarupa, Tamal Krishna, and Hridayananda Maharaja, three of the eleven Zonal Acaryas who Ravindra Svarupa was supposedly challenging at the time. Three of the eleven original ritvik representatives who had perpetrated a monstrous hoax upon the whole society for nearly ten years. These three men signed the deal for ISKCON's current, and bogus guru system.

Coincidently Ravindra Svarupa das himself became an officially approved initiating guru at this time.

Even though the system for initiations introduced by Srila Prabhupada was part of Srila Prabhupada's system of management, rather than revert back to this process, Ravindra Svarupa invented a system which said the parampara should continue via a nod! Yes, that is correct, a kind of wink, wink, nod, nod, say no more!

"…because he said I shall select some of you, this is the selection that never was, I shall select some of you, that's what he did was he, he both selected and didn't select, very cleverly or obliquely, and at arms length. He appointed eleven ritvik gurus, and also said you cannot become guru unless you are qualified, now this, this to me, this was a nod, these are my best people. This was a nod in their direction"

(Ravindra Svarupa, San Diego Debate 1990)

Ravindra Svarupa's reform sought to convince the world that because ISKCON's GBC had made a huge error by un-authorisedly appointing 11 "pure devotee guru successors" to Srila Prabhupada, that now they had the answer, and the answer was that Srila Prabhupada had left a wide open field for any of His disciples to pose themselves within ISKCON as being on the same level as Srila Prabhupada.

Now in 2008, we have a swag of un-authorized "pure devotee successors" competing for disciples within ISKCON. This is most certainly a disturbing and cheating system.

Here in Australia devotees who are pujaris, while they do the offering, are allowed to put a small picture of the guru they have accepted upon the altar during the offering, however they must remove the picture after the offering. This is absurd! This bogus system must be removed and Srila Prabhupada must be rightfully worshipped as ISKCON's only Jagad Guru Spiritual Master.

It is essential that all offerings within ISKCON be made through Srila Prabhupada, so that members are exposed to the proper forms of spiritual items, including prasadam that is within the correct parameters of the disciplic succession. A lot of devotees are unsure about the offerings, whether they are eating bonafide prasadam or not.

For example let us take two of ISKCON's gurus here in Australia, Jayapataka Maharaja and Devamrita Maharaja. Bhagavad Gita 2.9.43 states that:

"One who is now the disciple is the next spiritual master. And one cannot be a bonafide and authorized spiritual master unless one has been strictly obedient to his spiritual master."

In the case of Jayapataka Maharaja, he went to Sridhar Maharaja (Srila Prabhupada's godbrother) and told Sridhara Maharaja a lie. When Jayapataka Maharaja went to ask advise from Sridhara about the process for initiations within ISKCON, Jayapataka misled Sridhara Maharaja by saying that Srila Prabhupada had appointed the original 11 Zonal representatives as successor acarya to Srila Prabhupada.

And in the case of Devamrita Swami, we have personal experience that Devamrita Maharaja was here in Australia as late as 1995, dressed in Franciscan robes and setting up a society that he would be in charge of in this part of the world.

Both of these voted-in acaryas have not been strictly obedient to Srila Prabhupada, as stated in Bhagavad Gita 2.9.43, and yet offerings are made daily in ISKCON temples via both of these voted-in men.

Many devotees have expressed concerns and believe that this is outside the parameter of disciplic succession, and maybe they are correct. This is an area not often discussed. Are the devotees within ISKCON temples eating bonafide foodstuffs?

Kurma das (not the chef)

Quote:

<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="100%"><tbody><tr><td style="border: 1px solid rgb(102, 102, 102); padding-right: 3ex; padding-left: 3ex;" bgcolor="#e0e0e0">Originally Posted by suchandra

therefore the temples are empty and about of being closed.

 

</td></tr></tbody></table>

What a nonsense you are Suchandra, you have shown your true colours. Why don't you get out there and make devotees. It is easy to sit back and find fault

 

It aprears you are very envious of Srila Prabhupada's ISKCON like many others from the Gaudiya math.

 

Actually ISKCON Temple have never had the amount of SOULS they have noW

The wonderful Hindu invasion of ISKCON Melbourne ( <!-- BEGIN TEMPLATE: threadbit_pagelink -->1 <!-- END TEMPLATE: threadbit_pagelink --><!-- BEGIN TEMPLATE: threadbit_pagelink -->2 <!-- END TEMPLATE: threadbit_pagelink -->)

Kurma (not the chef), an Australian Vaishnava, reported about this "Hindu invasion" in Australian temples, saying, no more Australians are joining and the Indians being fooled into the bodily designation of being Hindus by the temple managers who are after money.

Thats what ISKCON is all about - to open temples wherever there're Hindu communities and fool these poor souls with mundane rituals to get their money. You find lots of reports like this, google with, "Hinduzation, Hinduisation, Hindu-isation of ISKCON" and judge for youself.

is all iskcon teaching this 'fall from goloka' theory? please excuse my ignorance.

ISKCON is being infiltrated by people who kill ISKCON's original spirituality and therefore you find all the strategic planning comitees how to turn ISKCON into a business for collecting money from the visitors.

And the members helplessly having to agree to all this commercialization as an result of the leaders don't preach pure spiritual knowledge anymore.

Paris Hindus chose Ganesh pooja over LTTE diktat

Fri, 2008-09-12 04:45

[url="http://www.asiantribune.com/?q=node/13192"]

Paris, 12 September, (Asiantribune.com): Hindu devotees in their hundreds participated in the Ganesha pooja at the Hindu temple in Paris and broke thousands of coconuts as a part of ritual defying the orders issued by the Tamil Tigers 'not to waste money to break coconuts when the people in the north and east are displaced'.

I am hungry ... Give me food

The trustees of Sri Manika Vinayakar Alayam denounced the Tamil Tigers for their attempts to interfere with Ganesha pooja from October 31 to September 3. Immediately after the temple authorities announced the schedule of Ganesha pooja, the Liberation Tigers of Tamil Eelam (LTTE) pasted posters in Tamil dominated La Chappelle area in Paris urging Hindu population to boycott the coconut pooja, which is an integral part of the Ganesha pooja.

"Instead of breaking coconuts for Ganesha pooja, donate the amount you spend for coconuts and for cleaning the Paris roads after the pooja for the special fund for displaced Tamils in the north and east," the LTTE poster urged. The poster carried photographs of previous year's Ganesha pooja and a crying child allegedly starving at a refugee camp. In this poster, the Ganesha pooja picture was cut across with an 'X' and it called on the Hindus to contribute funds to the Tamil Refugee Organisation (TRO). The poster urged the Hindus to see first about the current situation before thinking of salvation in future reincarnations.

"The LTTE poster is nothing but religious sacrilege," Vijayan Arumugan, a Hindu devote said. "The LTTE can raise funds at any other place, but not at the cost of a sacred Hindu ritual". He added that the Tamils have serious doubts in any case whether the funds collected by the TRO would go to the welfare of the displaced people.

In the Kovil - breaking coconuts to fulfill vows

The TRO (ORT France) is under investigation currently as the documents seized from 17 arrested LTTE cadres in France have revealed the close links between the LTTE and ORT France. The Sri Lanka Embassy in Paris urged the European Union to ban the TRO as it is a front organization of the LTTE.

The Temple Sri Manika Vinayakar Alayam at No 72, rue Philippe de Girard i Paris 18 is a respected place of worship open for Hindus from Sri Lanka, India, Malaysia and several other countries. "It is our place of worship and the LTTE should not use it as a platform to raise funds for arms," a Kamalian Tiruvedran, Hindu from Madagascar said. "I have many Sri Lankan Tamil friends and they are disgusted with the intimidatory and coercive actions of the LTTE. But they are too scared to raise their voice against the LTTE because of lack of safety for their kith and kin back home".

In the Kovil

He expressed joy that the Sri Lankan Tamils in their thousands took part in the coconut pooja ignoring the LTTE warnings.

- Asian Tribune -

Sarva and Bhaktajan have different ideas here.

 

Sarva says a person can fall down from Goloka again and again and again (etc)

 

Bhaktajan believes you don't fall a second time, you only fall from Goloka once.

 

What then of the statement by Krishna in the Gita (8.21

 

 

Well yes, things have bcome very cheap these days - go to Goloka and next day - come back to the killing of cows and having barbecue with karmi friends.

Therefore I said this kind of spirituality doesn't attract conditioned souls to become Vaishnavas, therefore the temples are empty and about of being closed.

Srila Prabhupada - “You are already in the spiritual sky, but you are simply covered. Just like the sun is already there. You are also already there…Try to understand. Actually we are not fallen therefore, at any moment we can revive our Krishna consciousness." Srimad-Bhagavatam lecture given in London, on July 30, 1971

 

This is surely derived from vedic statements where it says, everything resides in God and cannot be accepted cheaply.

When Lord Caitanya says, "I am Your eternal servitor, yet somehow or other I have fallen into the ocean of birth and death. Please pick me up from this ocean of death and place me as one of the atoms at Your lotus feet", the actual dimension of the jivas' tragedy of not being already in Goloka becomes more clear.

Besides, when looking close at all these epidemic falldowns after Prabhupada left it should be clear that all these big leaders considered they are spiritually situated but in fact they were/are terribly wrong.

Spiritual life is not so cheap.

When speaking for the 500 mio population of the European Union, who are the leaders now, only the hedgers, those who hated to go out summer and winter to save the conditioned souls and bring them Bhagavad-gita.

All those hard working sankirtan devotees are kicked out and those slackers are now in power who would never stoop to take a seat in a sankirtan van.

In sum it is easy to quote Prabhupada out of context, especially on the internet, but to understand things in full is a totally different topic.

Another problem is the conditioned soul's propensity to cheat - below scientists claim of having produced life. For the layman probably impossible to find out if this is actually true or fake.

Biologists on the Verge of Creating New Form of Life

By Alexis Madrigal September 08, 2008 | 10:30:34 AMCategories: Biology

A team of biologists and chemists is closing in on bringing non-living matter to life.

It's not as Frankensteinian as it sounds. Instead, a lab led by Jack Szostak, a molecular biologist at Harvard Medical School, is building simple cell models that can almost be called life.

Szostak's protocells are built from fatty molecules that can trap bits of nucleic acids that contain the source code for replication. Combined with a process that harnesses external energy from the sun or chemical reactions, they could form a self-replicating, evolving system that satisfies the conditions of life, but isn't anything like life on earth now, but might represent life as it began or could exist elsewhere in the universe.

While his latest work remains unpublished, Szostak described preliminary new success in getting protocells with genetic information inside them to replicate at the XV International Conference on the Origin of Life in Florence, Italy, last week. The replication isn't wholly autonomous, so it's not quite artificial life yet, but it is as close as anyone has ever come to turning chemicals into biological organisms.

"We've made more progress on how the membrane of a protocell could grow and divide," Szostak said in a phone interview. "What we can do now is copy a limited set of simple [genetic] sequences, but we need to be able to copy arbitrary sequences so that sequences could evolve that do something useful."

By doing "something useful" for the cell, these genes would launch the new form of life down the Darwinian evolutionary path similar to the one that our oldest living ancestors must have traveled. Though where selective pressure will lead the new form of life is impossible to know.

"Once we can get a replicating environment, we're hoping to experimentally determine what can evolve under those conditions," said Sheref Mansy, a former member of Szostak's lab and now a chemist at Denver University.

Protocellular work is even more radical than the other field trying to create artifical life: synthetic biology. Even J. Craig Venter's work to build an artificial bacterium with the smallest number of genes necessary to live takes current life forms as a template. Protocell researchers are trying to design a completely novel form of life that humans have never seen and that may never have existed.

Over the summer, Szostak's team published major papers in the journals Nature and the Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences that go a long way towards showing that this isn't just an idea and that his lab will be the first to create artificial life -- and that it will happen soon.

"His hope is that he'll have a complete self-replicating system in his lab in the near future," said Jeffrey Bada, a University of California San Diego chemist who helped organize the Origin of Life conference.

Modern life is far more complex than the simple systems that Szostak and others are working on, so the protocells don't look anything like the cells that we have in our bodies or Venter's genetically-modified E. coli.

"What we're looking at is the origin of life in one aspect, and the other aspect is life as a small nanomachine on a single cell level," said Hans Ziock, a protocellular researcher at Los Alamos National Laboratory.

Life's function, as a simple nanomachine, is just to use energy to marshal chemicals into making more copies of itself.

"You need to organize yourself in a specific way to be useful," Ziock said. "You take energy from one place and move it to a place where it usually doesn't want to go, so you can actually organize things."

Modern cells accomplish this feat with an immense amount of molecular machinery. In fact, some of the chemical syntheses that simple plants and algae can accomplish far outstrip human technologies. Even the most primitive forms of life possess protein machines that allow them to import nutrients across their complex cell membranes and build the moleculesthat then carry out the cell's bidding.

Those specialized components would have taken many, many generations to evolve, said Ziock, so the first life would have been much simpler.

What form that simplicity would have taken has been a subject of intense debate among origin of life scientists stretching back to the pioneering work of David Deamer, a professor emeritus at UC-Santa Cruz.

What most researchers agree on is that the very first functioning life would have had three basic components: a container, a way to harvest energy and an information carrier like RNA or another nucleic acid.

Szostak's earlier work has shown that the container probably took the form of a layer of fatty acids that could self-assemble based on their reaction to water (see video). One tip of the acid is hydrophilic, meaning it's attracted to water, while the other tip is hydrophobic. When researchers put a lot of these molecules together, they circle the wagons against the water and create a closed loop.

These membranes, with the right mix of chemicals, can allow nucleic acids in under some conditions and keep them trapped inside in others.

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In a paper released this month in the <cite>Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences</cite>, Mansy and Szostak showed that the special membranes, fat bubbles essentially, were stable under a variety of temperatures and could have manipulated molecules like DNA through simple thermal cycling, just like scientists do in PCR machines.

The entire line of research, though, begs the question: where would DNA, or any other material carrying instructions for replication, have come from?

Many researchers have tried to tackle this problem of how RNA- or DNA-like molecules could have developed from the amino acids present on the early Earth. John Sutherland, a chemist at the University of Manchester, published a paper last year demonstrating one plausible way that RNA could have spontaneously been created in the prebiotic world.

Once such molecules existed, Szostak's lab's demonstrated in a Nature paper earlier this summer that nucleic acids could replicate inside a protocell (pdf).

But while many scientists agree the protocell work is impressive, not every scientist is convinced that it contributes to a reasonable explanation for the origin of life.

"Their work is wonderful inasmuch as what they are doing can be," said Mike Russell, a geochemist with the Jet Propulsion Laboratory in Pasadena, California. "It's just that I'm uneasy about the significance of it to the origin of life."

Russell argues that the very first life-like molecules on Earth would have been based on inorganic compounds. Instead of a fatty acid membrane, Russell argues that iron sulfide could have provided the necessary container for early cells.

But UCSD's Bada pointed out that it as unlikely we will ever know how life actually began.

"[szostak's] point, and how we all view it, is that it's a nice model, but it doesn't necessarily mean that it happened that way," he said.

Szostak suggested that even if life could theoretically or did begin some other way, his lab's hypothesis was (at least) experimentally plausible.

"We're now pretty much convinced that growth and division could occur under perfectly reasonable prebiotic conditions in a way that is not some artificial laboratory construction," he said.

And actually, the most intriguing possibility of all may be that the protocells in Szostak's lab do not closely model earthly life's origins. If that's true, human beings, ourselves the product of evolution from the most primitive organisms, would have created an alternative path to imbuing matter with the properties of life.

"What we have in biology is just one of many, many possibilities," Szostack said. "One of the things that always comes up when people talk about life and universal qualities is water. But is water really necessary? What if we could design a system that works in something else?"

What will happen when nothing is found? It may be concluded that quantum particles or strings are not the origin of mass and gravity and that these phenomena must be something else altogether. The scientists can then stop this type of experiments and start doing something more useful. It may also be decided, however, to build an even more powerful particle collider.

 

Regards

They say when nothing is found Physics has to be newly written because all would be wrong. Here they're for the first time coming closer, the materialistic physics is all speculative and based upon unproven assumptions.

If they cannot produce life with chemicals they should stop telling their theories as scientific.

Unfortunately vedic scientists didnt do anything past 20 years, it would have been easy for them to prove that life cannot be generated by chemicals. Looks like the Bhaktivedanta Institute was infiltrated by undercover saboteurs.

But whatever a lot of people are writing critical comments.

Regarding the search for the God particle

Regarding the search for the God particle

September 11, 2008 07:26 AM PDT

“Ravana (in the Ramayana): He wanted to make a staircase up to the heavenly planet. It is like that. Ugra-karma. Why they are doing so? Ajna, ajna. Foolish people.”

By Srila Prabhupada

"Being beyond the range of limited sense perception, the eternally irreproachable factor covered by the curtain of deluding energy, You are invisible to the foolish observer, exactly as an actor dressed as a player is not recognized." (SB 1.18.19)

maya-javanikacchannamm

ajnadhoksajam avyayam

na laksyase mudha-drsa

nato natyadharo yatha

So one side is maya-javanikacchannam. Maya, this illusory energy, is covering with the curtain. Just like we are seeing the Deity, but if there is a curtain, we cannot see. Similarly, there is a curtain which is illusory energy, maya. Big, big scientists, they cannot see what is behind this material nature. They cannot understand. Because the maya, this wonderful material energy, is acting in such a big curtain, they cannot understand that beyond this there is something else. They cannot understand. Maya-javanika acchannam. Illusory energy. They are thinking this material energy working, that is everything. Nothing beyond this. The whole world is covered. This is one side. And the other side: ajna.

Maya-javanikacchannam ajna... These materialistic persons, they are ajna, means they have no sufficient knowledge. Unless one develops the light of knowledge, sattva-guna... Sattva-guna is the light of knowledge. Rajo-guna and tamo-guna is darkness. Ignorance and passion. In this stage one cannot understand what is Krsna, what is God. Ajna. Rajas-tamo-bhavah. As we have discussed in Bhagavad, Srimad-Bhagavatam, rajas-tamo-bhavah, those who are infected with the two kinds of material modes, means rajo-guna and tamo-guna, they are simply busy, kama and lobha. They are busy only... Those who are passionate, they are simply busy for sense gratification, and those who are in ignorance, in darkness, they have no eyes to see.

Ugra-karma: very, very strong work

So these two classes of men... Mostly people are infected with these two kinds of modes of material nature. Rajas-tamas. The whole world. At the present moment, especially, mostly ignorance, and some of them are passionate. That passionate tendency is engaging them for so many industries and very, very strong work, ugra-karma. Ugra-karma. Ugra-karma means very strong...? What is, should be the English word? Ugra... Ugra, just like chili, pungent. There are many things. They are very strong in taste. So ugra-karma, these... Just like they are building hundred-and-fifty-story building. People can live comfortably in a small cottage or one-storied house or little more. But no, they're increasing. Their passionate activities are increasing. Just like in your country, in New York, now there is hundred-and-four-storied building, or more than that. Some building?

Brahmananda: Hundred and ten.

Prabhupada: Hundred and ten.

Brahmananda: Two of them.

Prabhupada: Two of them. They're increasing. They are thinking by increasing the stories more and more, that is advancement of civili... But how long you will increase? If you make million stories, still, it is unlimited. That we can see. So many airplanes are running in the sky. What is that? Still, it is vast. So many sputniks are running in the sky. Still, it is vast. So it is simply desire, that "If I make a hundred-and-fifty-storied house, then my life is successful." So in this way, instead of not wasting valuable time of this human life, they are simply wasting time in this way. That is also explained in the Ramayana. Just the Ravana. He wanted to make a staircase up to the heavenly planet. It is like that. Ugra-karma. Why they are doing so? Ajna, ajna. Foolish people.

Krishna is adhoksaja

Now, if we say that "You are all foolish, rascal people. You are wasting your time in this way," they will think us crazy. And they think us like that, that we do not recommend these things. So it is very, very difficult to understand Krsna in this condition, in this situation. Maya-javanikacchannam and ajna, foolish people. Ajna. And the other, other side, Krsna is adhoksaja. Even one is advanced in knowledge... Knowledge means, our knowledge means we manufacture words or syllables from A to Z. That's all. ABCD. We compose words with these twenty-six, or how many? A to Z?

Devotee: Yes.

Prabhupada: Yes. That is... And in Sanskrit, as in English it is A to Z, similarly in Sanskrit, a, a, i, u, and the end is ksa. So a and ksa, that is called aksa. Aksa-ja. And ja means generated. So we also compose words, those who are Sanskrit scholars, they compose words from a to aksa, just like English they compose words from A to Z.

So our mental speculation and advancement of education is limited between this a and ksa, aksa. Aksa-ja. But Krsna is adhoksaja. Adhoksaja means where these kinds of speculation, beginning from a to ksa, will not act. Therefore His name is Adhoksaja.

Hindu Chariot Procession Occurs at Burning Man Festival

Press Release

Universal Society of Hinduism

Updated: 9/8/2008

Hindu leader Rajan Zed blessed a rath (chariot) with Gayatri and other mantras and Gangajal on Monday before it entered world famous Burning Man festival in the Nevada desert. The chariot will be used daily for the Rath Yatra, chariot procession.

There was a Krishna Camp complete with a 40-foot high Jagannath Temple in Oriya style architecture housing life-size deities of Jagannath (a form of Krishna), Baladeva (Krishna's brother), and Subhadra (Krishna's sister) imported from Puri in India at the weeklong Burning Man festival. About 40 thousand participants gather annually to create Black Rock City in Nevada desert, about 127 miles from Reno, dedicated to self-expression, self-reliance, and art as the center of community. They leave one week later, having left no trace.

(Rajan Zed) :: Rasikananda and Rajan Zed with the chariot, after blessing it. Zed urged the communities in other cities of the United States, Canada and the West to organize Rath Yatras in their respective cities to create awareness about ancient Indian culture and Hinduism.

Rasikananda Das, Assistant Director of Krishna Camp, says that devotees of Krishna from around the world have helped set up this Camp, which will house about seventy people and would cost them about $60,000. Krishna (Krsna) is the eighth incarnation of Vishnu, the all-pervader deity in Hinduism, and traditional history places him around 3000 BCE.

Rath Yatra will be held everyday of the festival, complete with dancing to the Kirtan (devotional singing) tunes. About 1,000 people are expected to participate in the actual procession daily, which will be watched enroute by about 35,000 people, when it goes around the temporary Black Rock City, traveling about two miles. Leaving the Camp at 6 pm daily, the Lord's chariot returned home at 12 midnight after passing through the streets of the desert city, Rasikananda adds.

Rasikananda further says that under the leadership of Nitai Das, Camp Director, starting with Mangal Arti ceremony at 6 am, a day at Krishna Camp included Japa meditation, Hathayoga, Soulmate yoga (for relationship healing), mridangam (drum from India) performance, Bharatnatyam dance, discussions/talks about Krishna, mantra meditation, Vedic philosophy seminars, India style Gopi Dot Face Painting and tilak (religious mark on forehead) application, mass kirtan, guru puja (worship), prasad (blessed food) distribution, etc., and ending with Sudarshan Narsimha Yajna (sacred fire ceremony).

Chaitanya Das, Camp resident, says that free hot and cold chai (Indian tea) were available round-the-clock for the visitors to Krishna Camp. Indian delicacies like samosas, jalebis, gulab-jamuns, pooris, pakoras, paranthas, etc., were cooked fresh everyday at Krishna Camp—the playhouse of Lord Jagannath. Krishna and Radha (Krishna's consort) were reunited through a complete marriage ceremony at the Camp. Festival participants were welcomed to get married in traditional Hindu style at the Camp. Temple priests will also give Sanskrit names to seekers.

A marathon mantra-chanting day was held at the Camp, which includes chanting "Hare Krishna" mahamantra (great mantra)continuously for 24 hours.

Besides no meat/fish/eggs, other restrictions at Krishna Camp were no sex, no gambling, and no liquor, although the Burning Man festival does not prohibit these.

Zed, who is the president of Universal Society of Hinduism, has congratulated the organizers for this Rath Yatra and urged the communities in other cities of the United States, Canada and the West to organize Rath Yatras in their respective cities to create awareness about ancient Indian culture and Hinduism. Hinduism is the third largest religion of the world, with about one billion followers.

Burning Man Festival: http://www.burningman.com/

Well one thing is certain Suchandra, your not a follower of Srila Prabhupada writing that nonsense offensive impersonalism.

 

Actually Suchandra it is you who is twisting words to foolish preach Mayavadi TEACHINGS

 

You haven't got the spiritual intelligence to understand 'our original position in Goloka'

You always say that we are all already in the spiritual world. May be right for you, but why Lord Caitanya came here to preach? Because all the inhabitants of the material world are already in Goloka? Doesn't make sense. And by repeating this, you're somehow saying it's all one, a conditioned soul is at the same time fully situated in Krishna-lila in the spiritual world. I just said, no, it is not all one. Therefore Prabhupada named his magazine, "Back To Godhead", going back means for me, I'm not there yet. You're saying, no, all the nitya-baddhas are already there? Srila Haridas Thakur says (Cc.Antya. 3.78,79):

haridasa bale,—"tomara yavat martye sthiti

tavat sthavara-jaìgama, sarva jéva's-jati

saba mukta kari' tumi vaikueohe paohaiba

süknma-jeve punaù karme udbuddha kariba

Haridasa said, "My Lord, as long as You are situated within the materiaI world, You will send to the spirituaI sky all the deveIoped moving and nonmoving living entities in different species. Then again You will awaken the living entities who are not yet developed and engage them in activities. In this way all moving and nonmoving living entities will come into existence, and the entire universe will be filled as it was previously."

Here you find, "not yet developed", you say, no, the inhabitants of the material world are already in Goloka.

"From the platform of the material world, one cannot estimate the real

position of the antimaterial world. But the Supreme Lord, who is the

controller of both material and antimaterial energies, descends out of

His causeless mercy and gives us complete information of the

antimaterial world. In this way we can know what the antimaterial

world is. The Supreme Lord and the living entities are both

antimaterial in quality, we are informed. Thus, we can have an idea of

the Supreme Lord by an elaborate study of the living entities. Every

living entity is an individual person. Therefore, the supreme living

being must also be the supreme person. In the Vedic literatures the

supreme person is properly claimed to be Krsna. The name "Krsna,"

indicating the Supreme Lord, is the only truly intelligible name of

the highest order. He is the controller of both material and

antimaterial energies, and the very word "Krsna" signifies that He is

the supreme controller. In the Bhagavad-gita the Lord confirms this as

follows:

There are two worlds--the material and antimaterial. The

material world is composed of inferior qualitative energy divided into

eight material principles. The antimaterial world is made of superior

qualitative energy. Because both the material and antimaterial

energies are emanations of the Supreme Transcendence, the Personality

of Godhead, it is proper to conclude that I [Lord Krsna] am the

ultimate cause of all creations and annihilations."

~ Easy Journey to Other Planets , Ch 1, Antimaterial Worlds

I got sucked in by this also but frankly who cares about Suchandra's mates the crazy scientists

You might not care, however, there're still lots of parents who do care when their children come home with school books which instruct, "God is dead - surrender to us, we'll teach you real knowledge how you and your offspring are nothing but primates."

Since Prabhupada mentions 920 times in the vedabase how scientists are tending to destroy religion and how Vaishnavas shouldn't keep quiet, we rather read instead, better don't care.

While Vaishnava institutions are indebted and consider to sell their temples, clever Hindu organizations seem to win that game of predominance in opening nice temples.

Berlin's Hindus to build two new temples

http://www.hindustantimes.com/StoryPage/StoryPage.aspx?id=81ce7b2e-2b79-40e5-90b7-b836dd4f4c47&ParentID=501e10e8-a445-4239-938c-4b84056446ef&&Headline=Berlin%27s+Hindus+to+build+two+new+temples

Mike Swanson, Indo-Asian News Service

Berlin, February 24, 2008

First Published: 22:17 IST(24/2/2008)

Last Updated: 22:29 IST(24/2/2008)

After years of praying in a cellar in a west Berlin street, the German capital's 6,000 Hindus can look forward to worshipping in two brand new temples.

A local Hindu group this week announced plans to build a temple to Lord Murugan, just three months after other Hindus conducted a groundbreaking ceremony for one dedicated to the deity Ganesha.

"We want to create a religious place for worshippers from the south of India and Sri Lanka," said Nadarajah Thiagarajah, chairman of the Sri Mayurapathy Murugan Temple Association.

The association has agreed on terms with local officials in the Berlin suburb of Neukoelln to buy a 744-sq m plot of land for the temple for 170,000 euros ($260,000).

Total cost of the project is expected to be around 600,000 euros ($890,000), with the bulk of the funding coming from donations from Hindus in Germany, Britain and other countries, said Thiagarajah.

"We hope that construction work can start in July when a festival dedicated to Murugan takes place," he said.

When completed at the end of 2009 the temple will be able to accommodate 120 worshippers. It will have an 11-metre-high tower that its designers say will symbolize the link to heaven.

"Our present quarters in the Urbanstrasse are too small," said Thiagarajah, a 62-year-old former radio officer in the Sri Lanka navy who has lived in Germany since 1981.

Thiagarajah says the new temple is not meant to rival the larger one dedicated to Ganesha, which will also be built in Neukoelln, a working-class district with a large immigrant population and widespread unemployment.

"We are on very friendly terms and often meet up together," he said of the two groups.

Vilwanathan Krishnamurthy, vice president of the Sri Ganesha Hindu Temple Committee, said the Murugan temple backers were asked if they wanted to join forces for a single project.

But they declined because they wanted one to their own god, who stands for war as well as beauty and family values. Most of the Murugan worshippers are Tamils from southern India and Sri Lanka.

Work on the Ganesha temple is expected to begin in April. Original plans called for it to be completed in 2009, but it looks as though it will not be finished until a year later.

The temple trustees say they have already amassed the 900,000 euros ($1.33 million) needed for the complex from donations made by Indian businessmen and other worshippers.

The temple will be constructed in a corner of the 84-hectare Hasenheide Park after officials in Neukoelln allowed the Hindu community to use the land rent-free until 2080.

The original design comes from an Indian specializing in temple architecture. German architects had to vet the drawings to make sure they conformed to German building requirements.

A 17-metre high ornamental tower dominates the entrance to the complex, which will contain one large temple with seating capacity for more than 350 and four smaller temples.

"Work on the tower and its ornamental carvings will take more than one year," said Krishnamurthy, who also chairs Berlin's Tamil Cultural society and gives dance and music classes in his spare time.

Stone carvings decorating the entrance will be imported from India.

The Berlin sites will bring to three the number of Hindu temples in Germany after the one in Hamm, a city of 150,000 in the populous western state of North Rhine-Westphalia. When completed, the Ganesha temple will be the second biggest in Europe after the Shri Venkateswara, which opened near Birmingham, England, in August 2006.

so as we all now this experimant is underway, and alot of scientific theries are going to be proved, and if not we will be destroyed. but what i would like to n=know is how do all of u feel about this from a spiritual point of veiw. before only god had the knowledge and the power to do such things, and man is in possestion of this knowledge and power.........what i think is that now we have the basic knowledge to create a whole new universe......dosent that sound like to much power

Doesnt look like an experiment, rather a tool to get all this money and fool the public. 20 nations paid for all this, without any public opinion poll.

If these particles which colide and cause an explosion generate the building blocks of life and the order of the planetary systems of the universe, then this particles must contain all this information in seed form already. This is science, nothing comes from nothing, all the components how the universe and life is made must be already in those neurons they're using for the experiment.

However, these particles are visible for the scientists, means, these particles are at best a mixture of earth, water, fire. If more subtle elements like ether, buddhi, manah, ahankarah are not taken into account, there're elements missing, how they can expect to create something?

According to some people, the personal associates of Sri Krishna can fall into a dream and experience material life again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again

 

but this is not what Sri Chaitanya taught

 

I have no interest in talking with such person who believe that the Residents of Goloka can go to sleep and start dreaming of eating fish and the flavour of the meat of cows.

Well spoken and simultaneously a dangerous philosophy of playing down the situation in the material world as some amusement park. However, the great acaryas all say the same, the greatest danger is samsara and the greatest tragedy, to spoil this human form of life. A philosophy that teaches I'm lying in a canopy bed in Vaikuntha and am shortly dreaming my stopover in kuntha, material universe, is rather mayavadha, somethung what is an illusory idea. It is a philosophy what makes people to stay in the material world considering I'm anyway already engaged in Krishna-lila, it's a dream, why bother?

"This Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is determined to open wide the eyes of the so-called leaders, who are full of ignorance, and thus save them from the many pitfalls and dangerous conditions of life. The greatest danger is the danger of getting a body lower than that of a human being. It was with great difficulty that we attained this human form of life just to take advantage of this body and reestablish our relationship with the Supreme Personality of Godhead, Govinda. Lord Śiva advises, however, that those who take advantage of his prayers will very soon become devotees of Lord Vāsudeva and thus will be able to cross the ocean of nescience and make life perfect."

SB 4.24.76

"In the Bhagavad-gītā (2.40) Lord Kṛṣṇa states that God-centered activities are so valuable that just a few of them can save a person from the greatest danger. The greatest danger of life is the danger of gliding down again into the evolutionary cycle of birth and death among the 8,400,000 species. If somehow or other a man misses the spiritual opportunity afforded by his human form of life and falls down again into the evolutionary cycle, he must be considered most unfortunate. Due to his defective senses, a foolish man cannot see that this is happening. Consequently Śrī Īśopaniṣad advises us to exert our energy in the spirit of īśāvāsya. Being so engaged, we may wish to live for many, many years; otherwise a long life in itself has no value. A tree lives for hundreds and hundreds of years, but there is no point in living a long time like trees, or breathing like bellows, or begetting children like hogs and dogs, or eating like camels. A humble God-centered life is more valuable than a colossal hoax of a life dedicated to godless altruism or socialism."

Sri Isopanisad

Srila Bhaktivinoda Takura - “However, because of contact with matter, the imprisoned soul loses the memory of his original spiritual form in Vaikuntha. .

Just one question, do you conclude from these quotes that all the living entities in the material world are simultaneously in Vaikuntha and fully absorbed in bhakti-rasa and don't have to worry about anything?

Everything what happens in the material world is just a naptime and you just dream to be here while you're actually situated in transcendental activities in Vaikuntha?

You will not find it, as there never was such a book by Shankara. You most likely heard it from iskcon sources or perhaps read it in an iskcon book.

 

 

 

No, as that whole piece of a "change of heart on his deathbed" is trash cooked up by some Vaishnavas.

 

 

 

And where did you read this? You do not know the first thing about Advaita.

 

A change of heart on the deathbed implies Bhaja Govindam is not Advaita. Please explain where Bhaja Govindam contradicts Advaita, if you can. Without that you are simply quoting incorrect statements delivered by iskcon Gurus - a waste of time for everyone.

 

Or you can always admit that your knowledge of Advaita is strictly second-hand based on hearsay from unreliable sources and be silent on the topic. The honest approach as I call it.

 

Cheers

Shankara surely didn't highlight to worship an illusion, a temporary material object. The word "bhajan" has been derived from the Sanskrit root "bhaj" which means to render service, what requires at least two individuals, servant and served.

Why Shankara would have said for the time being, because you're in maya, worship another maya, Govinda?

Wow, I went to Hare Krishna temple in London on Monday but I didn’t see no cake.

I know about this, all the cakes suddenly disappear. This was heard quite often. Therefore I posted them here.

09/09/08

11:00:36 pm, Categories: Announcements [A]

cakes for krsna

http://ananda-mohini.te-mo.com/index.php?blog=2&title=cakes_for_krsna&more=1&c=1&tb=1&pb=1

haribol

my good friend Ali Krsna dasi has send me recently this link to a photowebpage.

You find there photos of Radhastami at Bhaktivedanta manor in London. When u scroll down you will find photos of the most amazing cakes i have ever seen in my life. If someone deserves an award for the most creative, artistic and beautiful cakes in the world- then it is the devotees from London!!!

Check it out: http://www.flickr.com/photos/deitydarshan/page2/

oh yeah by the way, paul and me have managed to keep getting up early. and its wonderful. chanting is so much better and suddenly we dont have to stress out anymore about "oh when are we going to chant our rounds?"

getting up early...ki jaya

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Cooldown status

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