jagatpurush

very nice. ISKCON is a preaching movement. not that only Prabhupada should preach, but the person who is there ten years should preach to the new bhakta. and the six-month bhakta should preach to the 3-month bhakta. based on what he knows. ISKCON has been shown to be successful, against all odds, based on the Vedic formula. based on this precedent, it is doubtful that any watered-down version will ever produce success, despite what material thinking would predict (that if we are more lenient, then more people will come). thanks, Hare Krsna

Jesus is criticizing for eating meat in the name of sacrifice, but then doing away with the sacrifice. “Against Moses indeed I do not speak, nor against the law, but against them who corrupted his law, which he permitted for the hardness of your hearts.” it reminds me of Buddhadeva. he established buddhist philosophy to throw out the vedas. why throw out the vedas? because people were committing too many animal sacrifices in the name of vedas. so better to throw out the old books and reestablish the same concepts, such as dharma, karma, and ahimsa. interesting parallel.

when i was younger. it was fun and all, but it's sort of a 'been there, done that' type of situation. if i were to take LSD today, my first thought would probably be 'why did i take LSD?' i am more interested nowadays in trying to make my life more spiritual, as i find that to be more substantial. taking LSD may open up your understanding of consciousness, but it does not give you the tools for how to deal with what you see. for that, i turn to religion and culture.

i will ask someone about it. although i have to way that against how important this person's time is. thanks, Hare Krsna.

on his 'maybe' being Buddha or Kalki! /images/graemlins/smile.gif

i think jndas Prabhu is right. i had not seen the quotes before that he has provided, such as these and many others: "Please accept my blessings. I am in due receipt of your letter dated June 25, 1975 and have noted the contents. The Gurukula and poor feeding programs should be developed and it will make us very popular." - Srila Prabhupada "Everywhere. In the hospitals, charitable societies, Industrial places, everywhere - distribute this prasada and chant this Hare Krishna. Just see what is the result. You want peace? These are the processes of peace." - Srila Prabhupada "Those who think that devotion to God and kindness to the jivas are mutually different from each other, and perform accordingly in their life, such persons will not be able to follow the devotional culture. Their performance is only a semblance of devotion. Therefore, all the types of beneficence to others, like kindness, friendliness, forgiveness, charity, respect, etc. are included in Bhakti. Charity of medicines, clothes, food, water, etc. shelter during adversities, teaching of academic and spiritual education, etc. are the activities included in the devotional culture" - Bhaktivinoda Thakura in fact, it seems that quotes of this nature outweigh the other few quotes that are selectively quoted. also i think some quotes talking about mundane welfare such as the following have been misconstrued as to be against prasada distribution, which is yajna: "Because people are without Krsna consciousness, they have become thieves, and consequently they are being punished by the laws of material nature. No one can check this, not even by introducing so many relief funds and humanitarian institutions. Unless the people of the world take to Krsna consciousness, there will be a scarcity of food and much suffering." in any case, one can find ample justification that Srila Prabhupada did want ISKCON to be involved in helping the poor. not to mention that it is supported by common intuition. thanks Prabhu. Hare Krsna.

chalk it up to yuga-bheda (similar lilas performed in different yugas).

in Bg. 9.11 avajananti mam mudh manusim tanum asritam param bhavam ajananto mama bhuta-mahesvaram SYNONYMS avajananti--deride; mam--Me; mudhah--foolish men; manusim--in human form; tanum--body; asritam--assuming; param--transcendental; bhavam--nature; ajanantah--not knowing; mama--Mine; bhuta--everything that be; maha-isvaram--the supreme proprietor. TRANSLATION Fools deride Me when I descend in the human form. They do not know My transcendental nature and My supreme dominion over all that be. PURPORT From the other explanations of the previous verses in this chapter, it is clear that the Supreme Personality of Godhead, although appearing like a human being, is not a common man. The Personality of Godhead, who conducts the creation, maintenance and annihilation of the complete cosmic manifestation, cannot be a human being. Yet there are many foolish men who consider Krsna to be merely a powerful man and nothing more. Actually, He is the original Supreme Personality, as is confirmed in the Brahma-samhita (isvarah paramah krsnah); He is the Supreme Lord. There are many isvaras, controllers, and one appears greater than another. In the ordinary management of affairs in the material world, we find some official or director, and above him there is a secretary, and above him a minister, and above him a president. Each of them is a controller, but one is controlled by another. In the Brahma-samhita it is said that Krsna is the supreme controller; there are many controllers undoubtedly, both in the material and spiritual world, but Krsna is the supreme controller (isvarah paramah krsnah) and His body is sac-cid-ananda, nonmaterial. Material bodies cannot perform the wonderful acts described in previous verses. His body is eternal, blissful and full of knowledge. Although He is not a common man, the foolish deride Him and consider Him to be a man. His body is called here manusim because He is acting just like a man, a friend of Arjuna's, a politician involved in the Battle of Kuruksetra. In so many ways He is acting just like an ordinary man, but actually His body is sac-cid-ananda-vigraha--eternal bliss and knowledge absolute. This is confirmed in the Vedic language also (sac-cid-ananda-rupaya krsnaya): "I offer my obeisances unto the Supreme Personality of Godhead, Krsna, who is the eternal blissful form of knowledge." There are other descriptions in the Vedic language also. Tam ekam govindam: "You are Govinda, the pleasure of the senses and the cows." Sac-cid-ananda-vigraham: "And Your form is transcendental, full of knowledge, bliss and eternality." Despite the transcendental qualities of Lord Krsna's body, its full bliss and knowledge, there are many so-called scholars and commentators of Bhagavad-gita who deride Krsna as an ordinary man. The scholar may be born an extraordinary man due to his previous good work, but this conception of Sri Krsna is due to a poor fund of knowledge. Therefore he is called mudha, for only foolish persons consider Krsna to be an ordinary human being because they do not know the confidential activities of the Supreme Lord and His different energies. They do not know that Krsna's body is a symbol of complete knowledge and bliss, that He is the proprietor of everything that be and that He can award liberation to anyone. Because they do not know that Krsna has so many transcendental qualifications, they deride Him. Nor do they know that the appearance of the Supreme Personality of Godhead in this material world is a manifestation of His internal energy. He is the master of the material energy. As has been explained in several places (mama maya duratyaya), He claims that the material energy, although very powerful, is under His control, and whoever surrenders unto Him can get out of the control of this material energy. If a soul surrendered to Krsna can get out of the influence of material energy, then how can the Supreme Lord, who conducts the creation, maintenance and annihilation of the whole cosmic nature, have a material body like us? So this conception of Krsna is complete foolishness. Foolish persons, however, cannot conceive that the Personality of Godhead, Krsna, appearing just like an ordinary man, can be the controller of all the atoms and of the gigantic manifestation of the universal form. The biggest and the minutest are beyond their conception, so they cannot imagine that a form like that of a human being can simultaneously control the infinite and the minute. Actually although He is controlling the infinite and the finite, He is apart from all this manifestation. It is clearly stated concerning His yogam aisvaram, His inconceivable transcendental energy, that He can control the infinite and the finite simultaneously and that He can remain aloof from them. Although the foolish cannot imagine how Krsna, who appears just like a human being, can control the infinite and the finite, those who are pure devotees accept this, for they know that Krsna is the Supreme Personality of Godhead. Therefore they completely surrender unto Him and engage in Krsna consciousness, devotional service of the Lord. There are many controversies amongst the impersonalists and the personalists about the Lord's appearance as a human being. But if we consult Bhagavad-gita and Srimad-Bhagavatam, the authoritative texts for understanding the science of Krsna, then we can understand that Krsna is the Supreme Personality of Godhead. He is not an ordinary man, although He appeared on this earth as an ordinary human. In the Srimad-Bhagavatam, First Canto, First Chapter, when the sages inquire about the activities of Krsna, it is stated that His appearance as a man bewilders the foolish. No human being could perform the wonderful acts that Krsna performed while He was present on this earth. When Krsna appeared before His father and mother, Vasudeva and Devaki, He appeared with four hands, but after the prayers of the parents, He transformed Himself into an ordinary child. His appearance as an ordinary human being is one of the features of His transcendental body. In the Eleventh Chapter of the Gita also it is stated, tenaiva rupena etc. Arjuna prayed to see again that form of four hands, and when Krsna was thus petitioned by Arjuna, He again assumed His original form. All these different features of the Supreme Lord are certainly not those of an ordinary human being. Some of those who deride Krsna, who are infected with the Mayavadi philosophy, quote the following verse from the Srimad-Bhagavatam to prove that Krsna is just an ordinary man. Aham sarvesu bhutesu bhutatmavasthitah sada: "The Supreme is present in every living entity." (Bhag. 3.29.21) We should better take note of this particular verse from the Vaisnava acaryas like Jiva Gosvami instead of following the interpretation of unauthorized persons who deride Krsna. Jiva Gosvami, commenting on this verse, says that Krsna, in His plenary expansion as Paramatma, is situated in the moving and the nonmoving entities as the Supersoul, so any neophyte devotee who simply gives his attention to the arca-murti, the form of the Supreme Lord in the temple, and does not respect other living entities is uselessly worshiping the form of the Lord in the temple. There are three kinds of devotees of the Lord, and the neophyte is in the lowest stage. The neophyte devotee gives more attention to the Deity in the temple than to other devotees, so Jiva Gosvami warns that this sort of mentality should be corrected. A devotee should see that Krsna is present in everyone's heart as Paramatma; therefore every body is the embodiment or the temple of the Supreme Lord, and as such, as one offers respect to the temple of the Lord, he should similarly properly respect each and every body in whom the Paramatma dwells. Everyone should therefore be given proper respect and should not be neglected. There are also many impersonalists who deride temple worship. They say that since God is everywhere, why should one restrict himself to temple worship? But if God is everywhere, is He not in the temple or in the Deity? Although the personalist and the impersonalist will fight with one another perpetually, a perfect devotee in Krsna consciousness knows that although Krsna is the Supreme Personality, He is all-pervading, as is confirmed in the Brahma-samhita. Although His personal abode is Goloka Vrndavana and He is always staying there, still, by His different manifestations of energy and by His plenary expansion, He is present everywhere in all parts of the material and spiritual creations.

video games are fun, but contain no philosophical subject matter--only style. the best you could do is make it LOOK indian. that's all. there are already so many video games. making a cartoon based on the Bhagavata of Srila Vyasadeva is a much better idea.

internet ki jaya! providing books free of cost ki jaya!

Prabhuji, you should try to associate with devotees as much as possible. that makes KC relishable. in my own life, i feel that the trick is, to do KC in a way that makes it more attractive to me than material activities. we like to go the temple, sing in the kirtan, take prasad, and talk with the devotees. so if we become attached to these things it is good and we will start to enjoy practicing KC.

chanting is meant to cleanse the consciousness of samskaras. this is explained by Caitanya Mahaprabhu in the first verse of the Siksastakam: ceto-darpana-marjanam bhava-mahadavagni-nirvapanam sreyah-kairava-candrika-vitaranam vidya-vadhu-jivanam anandambudhi-vardhanam prati-padam purnamrtasvadanam sarvatma-snapanam param vijayate sri-krsna-sankirtanam cetah - of the heart; darpana – the mirror; marjanam -cleansing; bhava - of birth and death; maha-davagni - forestal conflagration; nirvapanam - extinguishes; sreyah - real fortune (gradual opening of the soul’s inner treasure); kairava - the evening lotus; candika - the moon’s cooling rays; vitaranam - blossom; vidya-vadhu-jivanam - a life of unconditional surrender in conjugal love; ananda - of ecstatic joy; ambuddhi - the ocean; vardhanam - ever-increasing; pratipadam - again and again; purna-amrta - of full nectar; asvadanam - tasting; sarva-atma - all phases of the self; snapanam - satisfied, purified and conquered; paranam - the topmost; vijayate - auspicious; sri-krsna - of Sri Krsna; sankirtanam - congregational chanting of the holy name. "The holy name of Krsna cleanses the mirror of the heart and forever extinguishes the fire of misery, that great conflagration in the forest of birth and death. As the evening lotus blooms in the moon’s cooling rays, the heart begins to blossom in the nectar of the name. And at last the soul awakens to its real inner treasure – a life of unconditional surrender for Krsna’s sweetest pleasure. Again and again tasting nectar, the soul dives and surfaces in the ever-increasing ocean of ecstatic joy. All phases of the self we may conceive are fully satisfied, purified, and at last conquered by the all-auspicious influence of the holy name of Krsna." taken from Ocean of Nectar, by Srila B.R. Sridhar Maharaj

yes Anup Jalota is all right, and a fantastic singer too.

the kirtans of Krishna Das Babaji, which you can see on the link on the side there. possibly the sweetest kirtan ever recorded.

Vrindavana Mellows Vols. 1, 2, and 3. of the Vrindavana akhanda kirtana, led by Aindra dasa Prabhu ACBSP. you can get it at krishnaculture.com. i would also recommend chantandbehappy.com thanks, jpd

if i have one point to make in this whole discussion, it is only that we should not assume that devotees like Bhakti Vikasa Maharaja, Jayadvaita Maharaja, and Mahaprabhu Caitanya Prabhu are armchair philosophers or have 'nothing better to do' than stop people from taking prasada. they are brahmanas; they are supposed to discuss these things. and i'm sure jndasa Prabhu would agree that in general there is not enough thinking among leaders about what Prabhupada really wanted for ISKCON. Prabhupada said that the first-class man appears to be doing nothing, while actually he is doing a lot. ksatriyas appear to be doing a lot and are doing a lot. whereas confused people seem to be doing a lot, but are actually doing nothing. i have not read jndas Prabhu's article because knowing him, i'm sure it is all correct. he is, after all, a scholar. i would be a fool to argue with him. i just do not like this condescending attitude (of some--not jndasa Prabhu) towards senior devotees without trying to understand their position first.

>but some people (with nothing better to do?) MAKE IT complicated. the insinuation that people whose points you don't like have nothing better to do than talk on the internet is the oldest trick in the internet book, and essentially means nothing. if it is important enough to be a topic, it is important enough to be discussed thoroughly. if you have enough time to make this lame insinuation that i have 'nothing better to do' than try to understand PRabhupada's intentions for ISKCON--then you have enough time to try to understand the intricacies of this subject.

'Food for Death' is an unfortunate title. i don't have to explain everything Jayadvaita Swami does. only he does. however, it is a fact that the FFL program was not started by Srila Prabhupada. has anyone asked why? all i see is vilification, no dispassionate analysis.

Post deleted by jagatpurush

so the people who are so-called 'against prasad' do have legitimate concerns. i don't like to see either side vilified in the debate. mostly what i have seen so far is that devotees who try to present the Prabhupada statements below are vilified, before even being asked what their reasoning is. so here are two quotes from different sides of the argument. So far the Fiji [iSKCON] constitution is concerned, where it says: "supplying needs to the sick, poor, and orphans, etc." That is not our program. We distribute prasadam to everyone, not particularly to the needy. We make no discrimination, rich or poor. --Letter to Upendra dasa : 76-06-30 Regarding food distribution, they may come to take at our Temple. With travelling sankirtana we can distribute wherever we go, but not to the emergency spot, like that. > > --letter to Jayapataka Swami, 09/28/76 and then of course this and many others, which prove to us that jndas Prabhu's service is indeed laudable: "Somehow or other, everyone can manage to perform such a yajna and distribute prasada to the people in general. That is quite sufficient for this age of Kali. The Krsna consciousness movement is based on this principle: chant the Hare Krsna mantra at every moment, as much as possible, both inside and outside of the temples, and, as far as possible, distribute prasada. ***This process can be accelerated with the cooperation of state administrators and those who are producing the country's wealth.*** Simply by liberal distribution of prasada and sankirtana, the whole world can become peaceful and prosperous".

there has been a LOT of discussion of this from email, so i'm sifting through to see what to post. first off, let me say that i laud jndas Prabhu's efforts to distribute prasada. he is actually doing something, whereas i am not. but there is a tendency for it to get sort of karma-kanda-ish when devotional quality control is lost. a pertinent of example of this is is the akshaya-patra scheme in Bangalore, which we all know is not the sweetest most devotional temple in the world: > Dear Maharajas, Prabhujis and Matajis > PAMHO > AGTSP > > I have the greatest respect for any program that distributes prasadam and gives the mercy of the Holy Name to the hungry and thirsty masses. All> glories to all those prasadam distribution efforts which make new devotees. Phalena pariciyate. Since FFL was setup for this noble objective I offer my humble obeisances to all those who are striving to make new devotees through a combined program of kirtan, prasadam distribution and sankirtan. > > In Bangalore, India there is another program which appears like FFL. > > I have some comments regarding this popular Akshaya Patra program of ISKCON Bangalore, now expanding into other places at a rapid pace. I am raising some points for discussion based on my limited experience and observation of their operation. Kindly correct me wherever I am wrong. > > 1. Most people involved are paid employees. > 2. Cooking is nearly fully mechanised, simple food, seems quite inexpensive. It appears like collections are more than expenses, hence providing room for expansion. Also perceived price of a plate of "Mid-day meal" is much more than the actual cost. > 3. The process of delivery is slick and professional. Rarely do devotees accompany the prasadam. > 4. I haven't noticed any process of kirtan before, during or after meals in the schools where they deliver. > 5. No "Mahaprasade Govinde" also as far as I know. > 6. It seems to be very popular with the political bigwigs and getting big favors seems easy. > 7. The Mid-day Meal draws many students to the school to receive modern education. The great theories of Darwin, Big Bang etc are taught by poorly paid teachers who harbor hopes of material opulence. > 8. I am unaware of any regular program wherein devotees are involved in going to the schools wherein they give KC classes on a regular basis. > 9. Also I am unaware of the existence of a program by which parents of children are visited and preached to on the importance of devotional life. > 10. I am unaware of the existence of a system controlled by the Akshay Patra organisers wherein they can separate the deserving kids from the undeserving ones.In some schools the children usually gather at the time of meals and spend the rest of the time playing cricket, gambling etc. Mid day meal can at times turn into free food for lazy kids who want to enjoy life. Also I was wondering if there are any statistics of how many children are chanting japa, how many rounds etc and how many have joined the movement or are serving in some way due to this program. > > 11. The government is apparently happy to support the mid-day meal for a few reasons. Prominent ones are > a)Government spending for this activity reduces so there is more money to go into corrupt pockets. > b)Children have fallen sick in the past from poor quality food hence embarassing the government. Private participation mitigates this risk. > c)Huge scams related to the mid-day meal also embarassed the government. > > > I was wondering what the objective of Akshay Patra was > > 1. Is it collect money for other activities using this front? > 2. Is it get political favors? > 3. Is it to encourage children to go to school and get a materialistic education? As far as I know so many children go to school abandoning farm work and other work/vocations just for the meal since they are impoverished. > > Given the money spent is it not easier to have our own schools or schools managed or controlled by devotees where we can influence curriculum and attitude of children rather than fuel an education system which SP decried repeatedly? > > Further wouldnt it be better to create model schools on the varnashram basis as per SP's desires where children can engage in vocational training and hence earn a living in the future? The number of so called educated unemployed in exploding the world over. These educated kids are a frustrated lot involved in all kinds of anti-social behavior. They usually resent a society that taught them things which serve no practical purpose in most cases. > > Isn't it better for Akshay Patra program to take a leadership role rather than a follower role? Can't we be change leaders in society who display the courage to stand up for the right thing and show society how to do things rather than do things which society likes but is not endorsed by SP or sastra? > > Aren't feeding kids and encouraging them to receive a materialistic education devoid of KC and distributing condoms to prevent AIDS similar in hypocrisy to our core values? > > One last doubt: An Uttama Adhikari would obviously see all activities as bhakti but shouldn't we run our programs from a more Madhyama Adhikari platform? Isn't it better to err on the more conservative side? > > Please forgive any offenses made and correct me where I am wrong. > > We are hoping to start a humble prasadam and water seva at our book stall near Manasi Ganga in Govardhan. Please bless us that this modest attempt will succeed and help make new devotees and further our preaching attempts. Please bless me so that I may get Krishna prema. > > your servant > Mahaprabhu Caitanya das

to hear a pre-ISKCON view of Prabhupada. thanks, Guestji.

is an addictive substance. it can interfere with sleeping, cause irritability, headaches (esp from withdrawal) so there is good reason to give it up. in india there is a drink called chikori (?) which tastes like coffee. has anyone heard of this?

HHBCS: Today Guru Maharaja went to honor prasad at the home of his godbrother Nandakumar Prabhu. Sitting in his beautifully decorated house and living room, Guru Maharaja glorified him as an exemplary householder. He asked Nandakumara Prabhu to sit on the sofa next to him, but Nandakumara Prabhu remained sitting on the carpet, humbly saying with a smile, "Today I will hear." Guru Maharaja then glorified him and his family. He said, "This will create the credibility of ISKCON, when there are many exemplary householders like yourself." He added, "Krsna consciousness is not only for the temple devotees. Most mahajanas are householders." Glorifying Nandakumar Prabhu some more, Guru Maharaja said, "Whatever devotees do, they do it the best." "Devotees must become leaders of this world in all spheres. They must become army generals, heads of States, expert businessmen, everything." He added, "Normally, it is devotees who lead the world because Krsna is the Supreme Proprietor and He puts His own men in power. But only on this planet, for four hundred thirty two thousand years does He allow Kali to rule. So Kali has put all his men in important positions. They are agents of Kali. And what is Kali's agenda? It is meat-eating, gambling, intoxication and illicit sex. Through these activities he promotes adharma." Guru Maharaja continued, "But Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu's movement is here to undo this, and rather to re-establish the four pillars of dharma. Then Krsna's people will dominate this planet." He added, "This change will take place through the earnest effort of the devotees." "The world will gradually see how devotees are established in prominent positions and how they will eventually take over the leadership of the world. The result will be that there will be no more meat-eating, no more gambling, no more intoxication and no more illicit sex in the kingdom. If people will want to indulge in these activities, they will have to go to the forest. "You want to live like animal? Go where the animals live." Then Guru Maharaja spoke about how leaders must be strong and vigilant. "When there is crime, there must be punishment." Guru Maharaja used the example of Singapore as well as some Muslim states to illustrate this point.

Srila Prabhupada Uvaca 15: Devotee: "Srila Prabhupada, it's very difficult to control my mind when I chant. It wanders." Srila Prabhupada: "So what is the controlling of mind? You have to chant and hear. That is all. You have to chant with your tongue, and the sound you hear. What is the question of mind?"