jagatpurush

Instant Breakfast?

the temples will always be intact. it is still possible to be bankrupt, i think, and still maintain some key properties, like temples that are open for the public.

thank you for your nice question. I have been wondering about Hindu's beliefs. People can be reborn as an animal, depening how they lived, and this is why they don't kill animals. according to our beliefs: >If you killed an animal, like stepping on a bug, what goes it mean? Will you be punish? in general, any time that violence is committed, the person who does it (consciously or unconsciously) will suffer a reaction. there are many mitigating factors to this. for example, it is not anywhere near as severe to kill a plant or insect as it is to kill an animal--which is more evolved in consciousness. therefore we kill plants for food, but not animals. >What if you're not a Hindu and you step something and a Hindu sees it, what would they react? we believe that the laws of action and reaction are inherent in the universe and affect all Hindus and non-Hindus alike. as for how a dharmika (Hindu) person would act in a given situation, you would have to be specific. thanks

Hare Krishna you can find out about what Vrindavan (Goloka or Gokula) is like by reading Krsna book. if you have read that, then you may also want to check out Ananda-Vrndavana Campu. Here are my answers based on my study of Gaudiya philosophy (not realization, obviously): -Are we alone with Krishna, or are there other jivas there with us? many other jivas -is there night/day? yes -what do we look like? depends on your svarupa. you could be a gopi, a peacock, cowhered, tree, etc. -what languages do we speak? Vrajabhasa, along with Sanskrit. perhaps others... -are we in constant association with Krishna, or only at certain times? constant association through rememberance, but not always in direct union. part of the ecstacy is meeting and separation. -do we realize what we have done in the material world in previous lives? presumably yes, since we have all knowledge (cit-sakti). but would we care/want to think about it? -what do the sorroundings look like? you can find descriptions of this in the books that i mentioned. thanks. hope this helps. also, i hope you don't find me too presumptuous to answer these questions...

i don't believe you. please stop deceiving people with unsubstantiated statements like: Svamnarayana did not tell to worhsip Krsna. it is right there in the Vacanamrut, easily provable. so why are you trying to confuse us? bc your family in london goes to svaminarayan mandir? therefore you know everything? you can't just make it up, you know. we are trying to have serious discussions here. thanks /images/graemlins/smile.gif Jesus also has millions of followers. however, they do not worship him as God, but rather as the Son of God.

no doubt. when i was doing sanskrit at U of Texas, the professor started off her 'Hinduism' class (which i was forced to take, of course, and was a constant tirade of misinformation), with the aryan invasion theory. AND THEN IMMEDIATELY SAID as if to brush over it, 'let's not have any questions over this.' did Prabhupada ever say, in a lecture, 'let's not have any questions over this? let's just brush over it?' the point is, the theory is antiquated, and this woman is making a nice salary out of teaching theories that are not even accepted within academia.

courtesy of Vasudeva Datta Prabhu (TSKP Slovenia) HH Bhakti Vikas Swami: That's a fact a devotee he rises early in the morning feeling bliss. How wonderful, another day in the service of Krishna. So much work in the service of Krishna, so many things to do. There are so many people all over the world who have to know about Krishna. They must come to KC. They don't know about it yet. There are so many devotees of Krishna in this country who don't know it. They are just going to work or going to school and and they don't know that they are devotees of Krishna. They are just waiting for someone to come, "Hey, here is a book about Krishna" And they read and come to the temple, what is this They start to associate, chant There are so many people... Just like you previously - you didn't know about Krishna. You thought that life means to go to school, and eat some bread, pass stool, watch some TV. This is life. You didn't know about Krishna. Now you know about Krishna and your life is changed. So many people in your country and all over the world - they don't know about Krishna yet. Or they may heart something. They haven't come to the point of understanding that there is no meaning of life except to serve Krishna. So devotees have an exciting mission. That we can go out and find all those devotees who don't realize yet that they are devotees. Great mission. Just like some kind of hunting - transcendental hunting. Where are the devotees? Karmis they like to go hunting. They do this in your country? They go out with guns and shoot rabbits and deer. But devotees they go out looking, "Where are those spirit souls who are eager to understand Krishna, where are they?" They are so many. You can't tell. You can never tell. Walking around, they may be old or young. They may be pleasant behaved or they may be very nasty. Sometimes very nasty people also change and they become devotees. Who are these people, they are all spirit souls. Actually everyone, they are all servants of Krishna. Some people, mostly we all forgot. So it is a great mission for the International Society For Krishna Consciousness to find all the people, "Where are they?" And that is the greatest pleasure. The greatest pleasure is to find out someone who - they forgot Krishna and now O, they are gradually taking it up. Krishna Himself He likes to do this. He finds such pleasure in waking others up to KC. He Himself comes as Lord Caitanya and preaches KC by spreading the holy names. Requesting people to preach, discussing philosophy with them, appointing his disciples six Goswamis, renovate, find out Vrindavan and write books. Six Goswamis carring the message of Caitanya Mahaprabhu, sending their disciples to preach, take the books, preach and this is going on till the present time, the same movement of Caitanya Mahaprabhu. Caitanya Mahaprabhu who is Krishna Himself came to chant Hare Krishna. This is the victory sound. Wherever there is the chanting of the holy name that is a sign of victory. Wherever devotees are enthusiastically chanting, then definitely maya's influence will be caste away and the transcendental potency of the holy name will awaken the sleeping souls. So devotees have to go out among the people who are sleeping in the lap of the witch called maya chant the name of Krishna that will enter the hearts of the sleeping souls and awaken them up and enliven them. This is the joyful life of KC. Arjuna forgot it. He became despondent. As long as devotee remains in the mood of conquering over maya. "Let is conquer over maya". Just like Arjuna had to conquer the forces of the Kauravas. Conquer over maya by preaching KC. And there will be some casualties, no doubt. In preaching, in fighting maya there may be some casualties. Even big generals may fall, but their service is not forgotten. And those who are alive and strong in KC should remain alive and strong in KC by always adhering to sadhana and chanting nicely, studying Prabhupada's books. Not entertaining, foolish, nonsense ideas. Knowing that real knowledge is that which comes in parampara. Prabhupada is great empowered associate of Caitanya Mahaprabhu who has given us this knowledge. What we have heard in disciplic succession, what Prabhupada has given us. That we should follow. We don't need any concocted,convoluted silly ideas. Just follow what the acaryas have given us, simple system. Chant Hare Krishna and be happy, spread that to others. In that way we will remain strong, blissful and happy and always strength of Krishna will be there to help us. So this is the point we can deduce from this First Chapter of Bhagavad Gita. Sometimes we think that there is not so much instruction in BG - first chapter. But actually it is very important instruction that as long as we remain with Krishna we remain strong. But if we don't, we become overcome by fear, ignorance, doubts, and illusion. This we can learn from this chapter. Hare Krishna. Are there any questions? Please. Question - Not clearly recorded Answer: Well I think the class I was saying that is understood from this, isn't it? If you have life you can preach - what does that mean? Life means if you have conviction in KC. Actually preaching it is not stereotyped thing. You can't preach in a formal way. Preaching means when one's heart is full of KC and it bubbles over. Someone who is actually hearing about Krishna and thinking about Krishna, then naturally he not only wants to share his KC with others but he must do. He cannot but preach. Someone who is in KC he cannot but chant Hare Krishna, he can't stop chanting Hare Krishna. One kind of chanting is doing formally. Hare Krishna Hare Krishna - I have to chant my rounds Hare Krishna Hare Krishna (heavy breathing) Krishna Krishna Hare Hare when it is gonna be finished. Another kind of chanting is that chanting is not coming from the tongue or lips but it is coming from the heart,automatically Hare Krishna. When one has got the life of KC, when one is feeling bliss of KC, then he must preach, you can't stop him preaching. So again that begins with sadhana, faith, conviction, all these things will give us the strength by which we must preach KC.

the more you practice, purify yourself, and avoid bad karma... things will become lighter and you can catch a little breath, on your way back to Godhead. of course there is much danger in getting stuck in the heavenly regions--either of the mind or of the universe. it's like being a dog on a leash. the person with heavy karma has a very short leash. the other guy, he may have more freedom, but ultimately he's still on a leash. he's not free...

psychedelics do not lead to "love" by any means. they, in fact, tend to increase the false ego. one time somebody on acid in SF started going off in Prabhupada's class and he said "I am God." and Prabhupada said "You are not God, you are dog. Now sit down." Hari bol! anyway, if you want to see drugs without love just think of Jim Morrison (at least, as he's portrayed in the movie, The Doors). yeah he does drugs, but he is just the most selfish, self-centered person imaginable. i believe that a human falls from grace when he/she ceases to show courtesy to other humans. thanks

if Krsna is giving you mercy, you will know. that's what this movement is based on. you'll feel happier and more pure in your thoughts, etc. as if everything is "right." sometimes you may feel that, if you do everything exactly as Krsna wants, then He can channel tremendous power through you. sometimes Krsna or the guru will give you a choice of things to do, based on your level of surrender. just like in Gita, Krsna says, if you can't do this, then do that; and if you can't do that even, then at least do this. as far as the picture falling on the floor, it should be seen as insignificant if Krsna is already giving you some bliss. you could see it as a small opportunity for seva (ie to pick up the picture).

from what i understand, Jesus was a reformer within Judaism. He was knowledgable about the Talmud and Torah, and quotes from Hebrew scripture in the Bible. Sri Krsna went to gurukula and studied under Sandipani Muni, and He also quotes the Brahma-sutra in Bhagavad-Gita. these personalities may not need to study or quote scripture, but they do so as an example for us--to show us that we should take the time to learn scripture, and not cast it out in favor of sentimentality.

courtesy of Vasudeva Datta Prabhu (TSKP Slovenia) HH Bhakti Vikas Swami: That's a fact a devotee he rises early in the morning feeling bliss. How wonderful, another day in the service of Krishna. So much work in the service of Krishna, so many things to do. There are so many people all over the world who have to know about Krishna. They must come to KC. They don't know about it yet. There are so many devotees of Krishna in this country who don't know it. They are just going to work or going to school and and they don't know that they are devotees of Krishna. They are just waiting for someone to come, "Hey, here is a book about Krishna" And they read and come to the temple, what is this They start to associate, chant There are so many people... Just like you previously - you didn't know about Krishna. You thought that life means to go to school, and eat some bread, pass stool, watch some TV. This is life. You didn't know about Krishna. Now you know about Krishna and your life is changed. So many people in your country and all over the world - they don't know about Krishna yet. Or they maybe heard something. They haven't come to the point of understanding that there is no meaning of life except to serve Krishna. So devotees have an exciting mission. That we can go out and find all those devotees who don't realize yet that they are devotees. Great mission. Just like some kind of hunting - transcendental hunting. Where are the devotees? Karmis they like to go hunting. They do this in your country? They go out with guns and shoot rabbits and deer. But devotees they go out looking, "Where are those spirit souls who are eager to understand Krishna, where are they?" They are so many. You can't tell. You can never tell. Walking around, they may be old or young. They may be pleasant behaved or they may be very nasty. Sometimes very nasty people also change and they become devotees. Who are these people, they are all spirit souls. Actually everyone, they are all servants of Krishna. Some people, mostly we all forgot. So it is a great mission for the International Society For Krishna Consciousness to find all the people, "Where are they?" And that is the greatest pleasure. The greatest pleasure is to find out someone who - they forgot Krishna and now O, they are gradually taking it up. Krishna Himself He likes to do this. He finds such pleasure in waking others up to KC. He Himself comes as Lord Caitanya and preaches KC by spreading the holy names. Requesting people to preach, discussing philosophy with them, appointing his disciples six Goswamis, renovate, find out Vrindavan and write books. Six Goswamis carring the message of Caitanya Mahaprabhu, sending their disciples to preach, take the books, preach and this is going on till the present time, the same movement of Caitanya Mahaprabhu. Caitanya Mahaprabhu who is Krishna Himself came to chant Hare Krishna. This is the victory sound. Wherever there is the chanting of the holy name that is a sign of victory. Wherever devotees are enthusiastically chanting, then definitely maya's influence will be caste away and the transcendental potency of the holy name will awaken the sleeping souls. So devotees have to go out among the people who are sleeping in the lap of the witch called maya chant the name of Krishna that will enter the hearts of the sleeping souls and awaken them up and enliven them. This is the joyful life of KC. Arjuna forgot it. He became despondent. As long as devotee remains in the mood of conquering over maya. "Let is conquer over maya". Just like Arjuna had to conquer the forces of the Kauravas. Conquer over maya by preaching KC. And there will be some casualties, no doubt. In preaching, in fighting maya there may be some casualties. Even big generals may fall, but their service is not forgotten. And those who are alive and strong in KC should remain alive and strong in KC by always adhering to sadhana and chanting nicely, studying Prabhupada's books. Not entertaining, foolish, nonsense ideas. Knowing that real knowledge is that which comes in parampara. Prabhupada is great empowered associate of Caitanya Mahaprabhu who has given us this knowledge. What we have heard in disciplic succession, what Prabhupada has given us. That we should follow. We don't need any concocted,convoluted silly ideas. Just follow what the acaryas have given us, simple system. Chant Hare Krishna and be happy, spread that to others. In that way we will remain strong, blissful and happy and always strength of Krishna will be there to help us. So this is the point we can deduce from this First Chapter of Bhagavad Gita. Sometimes we think that there is not so much instruction in BG - first chapter. But actually it is very important instruction that as long as we remain with Krishna we remain strong. But if we don't, we become overcome by fear, ignorance, doubts, and illusion. This we can learn from this chapter. Hare Krishna. Are there any questions? Please. Question - Not clearly recorded Answer: Well I think the class I was saying that is understood from this, isn't it? If you have life you can preach - what does that mean? Life means if you have conviction in KC. Actually preaching it is not stereotyped thing. You can't preach in a formal way. Preaching means when one's heart is full of KC and it bubbles over. Someone who is actually hearing about Krishna and thinking about Krishna, then naturally he not only wants to share his KC with others but he must do. He cannot but preach. Someone who is in KC he cannot but chant Hare Krishna, he can't stop chanting Hare Krishna. One kind of chanting is doing formally. Hare Krishna Hare Krishna - I have to chant my rounds Hare Krishna Hare Krishna (heavy breathing) Krishna Krishna Hare Hare when it is gonna be finished. Another kind of chanting is that chanting is not coming from the tongue or lips but it is coming from the heart,automatically Hare Krishna. When one has got the life of KC, when one is feeling bliss of KC, then he must preach, you can't stop him preaching. So again that begins with sadhana, faith, conviction, all these things will give us the strength by which we must preach KC.

was that Prabhupada had said that Pluto is not a planet, and that this had been borne out by science. this devotee read an article which explained that scientists say that Pluto does not meet their current criteria for being a planet. the reason they did name it as a planet back then was, well, because they were excited to find the next planet. the concept that Pluto is not a "planet" seems to correspond with the Vedic concept of nava-graha (not dasa-graha). i could be wrong about some of this though. thanks, jpd

courtesy of Basu Ghosh Prabhu by T C A Srinivasa-Raghavan http://in.rediff.com/news/2005/jun/13tca.htm Why Mr Advani is spot on June 13, 2005 Here is a little-known fact that the secularists of the Congress, and its sympathisers in the extended Left Parivar, have been trying to obliterate for the last 60 years. In the 1937 election, when the time came for what would be called seat adjustments today, Jawaharlal Nehru, who was in charge of UP, had the option of tying up with the Muslim League or the Jamaat-e-Islami. Guess who he chose? Had he tied up with the League, the course of history may well have been different. Certainly, when it came to what is called communalism now, the League at the time was no patch on the Jamaat. It was only because Nehru was adamant about not having anything to do with Jinnah, rather than generally with any overtly Muslim organisation, did Jinnah pull out all the stops. The usual ifs and buts of history aside, did that decision make Nehru communal? Or did it not make his politics as communal as that of Jinnah? Why, the Congress still ties up for elections with Muslim political organisations and yet claims to be secular. Does that make, say, Mani Shankar Aiyar communal? Although it is important to draw this distinction in the case of Jinnah too, we Indians have never been taught to do so. His politics, that too only after 1937, may have been based on exploiting communal differences. But as a man he was as secular as Gandhiji and Nehru. This elementary point has never been understood in India because our politicians have not told us any differently. The result is that political postures and personal beliefs are treated identically. This is responsible for 99 per cent of the confusion about Jinnah. Nor has the Congress allowed the blame forPartition to be placed where it properly belongs: British policy. It has, instead, always tried to project itself as the saviour of Indian Muslims (or should I say Muslim Indians?) and kept the wedge driven in by the British in place. The result is that instead of the blame being directed outwards, it has been directed inwards. Is it not ironic that Indians and Pakistanis hate each other but love the British as though they were completely blameless? For this, all political parties are responsible. How many Indians have heard of Harcourt Butler? How many have heard of Principal W A J Archbold of the Anglo-Oriental College of Aligarh? How many know about the role played by these two in the formation of the Muslim League in 1906? Here are also some facts that the Sangh Parivar has not heard of, such as the role played by Jinnah in the Lucknow Pact (1916). It brought the Hindus and Muslims together in a joint scheme for postwar reforms by conceding Muslims the right to separate electorates. No less a person than Sarojini Naidu then called him 'the ambassador of Hindu-Muslim unity.' How many Indians know Jinnah started out as a Congressman, as private secretary to Dadabhai Naoroji? How many Indians know that he worked and worked and worked to bring about formulae that would lead to Hindu-Muslim unity? Let me give you a list. There were his 'Proposals' of 1927. In 1928 he begged and pleaded for basic Muslim demands to be included in the Nehru Report. In 1929 he formulated the 'Fourteen Points' as minimum Muslim demands for a constitutional settlement. He participated in the Round Table Conference that started in 1930 in London. Finally, fed up with the Congress, he quit politics altogether. This was not a 'communal' man. Nor has it taught Indians that Jinnah's political career had two phases here, one before 1931 and the other after 1935. Few Indians know that Jinnah retired from politics in 1931 and went off to England to practise law. Fewer still know why he came back at the end of 1934 after Liaquat Ali pleaded with him to return to lead the League in the elections that were to follow the passing of the Government of India Act in 1935. What brought him back was not the fear that the Congress would defeat everything in sight. It was the fear that the liberal Muslim political opinion in India would go unheard. The Muslim League at that time was actually the least 'communal' of the Muslim political outfits. It was not until 1940 that Jinnah asked for Pakistan. And that was a result of Congress policies over ministry formation in UP, where it refused to take League ministers unless the League was dissolved. It is worth noting in this context that the Congress tried to split the League when Nehru sought to entice some major UP Leaguers by offering them ministerships! But he had a pre-condition: they must quit the League and denounce it. None did. The import of all this was not lost on Jinnah. Even so, as Ayesha Jalal, the US-based Pakistani historian, has asked: when he demanded Pakistan, did he really want a theocratic State, or was he just using it as a bargaining chip to get the Muslims a better political deal? Nor is the class dimension of the Hindu-Muslim antagonisms taught properly. How many Indians know that Muslim separatism was fuelled largely by the big zamindars of Punjab, Bengal, and UP? How many know that they determined to get a separate country only when the Congress turned explicitly 'socialist' at the behest of Nehru after the Nowgong Congress of 1937, when land reform became an integral part of the programme? Had they known that land reform would stop in India in 1950, they may not have asked for a separate country. How many know that they used Jinnah as an interlocutor with the British? Does any of this make Jinnah communal? Let me end by giving another little-known fact, one that the Congress has been at pains to downplay. How many Indians know that when the time came to choose a prime minister in the interim government of 1946, out of the 20 DPCC members who voted, 19 voted for Sardar Vallabhbhai Patel and that it was only after Gandhiji asked him to stand down in favour of Nehru that the latter became prime minister? But that is another story. The short point is that Jinnah was no more communal than Nehru or Gandhiji was. He became an instrument of forces that he thought he could control but could not eventually. But that is not so unusual, is it?

Vaisnava aparadha and philosophical deviations in the name of Vaisnavism are much more dangerous than mere bad karma. that is why hopefully, those who are prone to offend Vaisnavas are likely to be cast out of Vaisnava circles, in order that they may save themselves the trouble. thanks, Hare Krsna

> What is the difference between the two. Hiranyakasipu was one ordinary soul who attained a lot of power and exemplified all the demoniac/ materialistic qualities. the idea of Satan however (at least, the version of it that Prabhupada did not accept) is that he is a rival power of God's, of equal or near equal stature. so that idea does not match our theism. if anyone is to be of near or equal status to Visnu, it should be Siva, who is a devotee of Visnu. not some common demon like Hiranyakasipu who attained temporary material power. i read on Suhotra Prabhu's site that actually the religion of Zoroastrianism started as a split of certain brahmanas who wanted to follow this doctrine of dualism, that there is equal Satan and God: "At one point, though, something that India rejected took hold in the West. This something accounts for the major differences between Western and Vedic theology. This something is Zoroastrianism. It is at once the tie that binds the Western religious heritage and Vedic dharma, and the point at which they departed from one another. Zoroastrianism is an ancient doctrine of "theological dualism" propagated in Persia at some unknown date by the prophet Zarathushtra. Theological dualism means any religious doctrine in which God is thought to have a rival in the person of an anti-God like Satan. As a religious faith Zoroastrianism is almost extinct. But its dualism lives on to a recognizable degree in Judaism, Christianity and Islam. The teachings of Zarathushtra were not unknown in ancient India. He is named Jarutha in several passages of the Rg Veda . However, these references are not flattering. Rg Veda 7.9.6 indicates that Jarutha's theology was opposed by the sage Vasistha."

with what in particular about the article? thanks, jpd

i have become aware that this quote was taken out of context (when i posted it as guest). the sound-byte was recently posted on Chakra and as a result KK Prabhu on siddhanta.com did a full contextual analysis. June 15, 2005 Shastra: Something In It For Everyone, But What for Who? Chakra just posted a short article titled "Prabhupada saw Rahu as allegory", offering as evidence a partially quoted letter from Srila Prabhupada to his disciple Krsnadasa. [As quoted on Chakra.org] "But because you have asked me, I am your spiritual master, I must try to answer to your satisfaction. Yes, sometimes in Vedas such things like the asura's decapitated head chasing after Candraloka is explained allegorically. Just like now we are explaining in 4th Canto of Srimad-Bhagavatam the story of King .; just like the living entity is living within this body, and the body is described there as city with nine gates, the intelligence as the Queen. So there are sometimes allegorical explanations. There are many things which do not corroborate with the so-called modern science, because they are explained in that way. But where is the guarantee that modern science is also correct? "We are concerned with Krishna Consciousness, and even though there is some difference of opinion between modern science and allegorical explanation in the Bhagavat, we have to take the essence of Srimad-Bhagavatam and utilize it for our higher benefit, without bothering about the correctness of the modern science or the allegorical explanation sometimes made in Srimad-Bhagavatam." (Letter to Krsnadasa, Vrindaban, Nov. 7, 1972) (Chakra) However, the context Chakra did not quote makes it clear that wherever there is a discrepancy between science and Vedic literature, the opinion of Vedic literature is to be accepted over science. Vrindaban 7 November, 1972 72-11-07 My Dear Krsnadasa, Please accept my blessings. I beg to acknowledge receipt of your letter dated October 30, 1972, and I have noted the contents. It appears that you are again constantly disturbed by the same nonsense doubts. These things are not very important, we may not waste our time with these insignificant questions. If we are seeking to find out some fault, maya will give us all facility to find any small thing and make it very big, that is maya. But such questions as yours: why there is so-called discrepancy between the views of Bhagavat and modern scientists regarding the moon and other planets, and whether Hitler is good or bad man, these are most insignificant matters, and for anyone who is sincerely convinced that Krishna is the Supreme Personality of Godhead, for him these questions do not arise. Our information comes from Vedas, and if we believe Krishna, that vedaham samatitani vartamanani carjuna bhavisyani ca bhutani mam tu veda na kascana [bg. 7.26] that He knows everything, and ``vedais ca sarvair aham eva vedyo vedanta-krd veda-vid eva caham,'' that Krishna is non-different from Vedas, then these questions do not arise. But because you have asked me, I am your spiritual master, I must try to answer to your satisfaction. Yes, sometimes in Vedas such things like the asura's decapitated head chasing after Candraloka, sometimes it is explained allegorically. Just like now we are explaining in 4th Canto of Srimad-Bhagavatam the story of King .. Just like the living entity is living within this body, and the body is described there as city with nine gates, the intelligence as the Queen. So there are sometimes allegorical explanations. So there are many things which do not corroborate with the so-called modern science, because they are explained in that way. But where is the guarantee that modern science is also correct? So we are concerned with Krishna Consciousness, and even though there is some difference of opinion between modern science and allegorical explanation in the Bhagavat, we have to take the essence of Srimad-Bhagavatam and utilize it for our higher benefit, without bothering about the correctness of the modern science or the allegorical explanation sometimes made in Srimad-Bhagavatam. But this is a fact that in each and every planet there is a predominant deity, as we have got experience in this planet there is a president, so it is not wonderful when the predominating deity fights with another predominating deity of another planet. The modern science takes everything as dead stone. We take it for granted that everything is being manipulated by a person in each and every affair of the cosmology. The modern scientists however could not make any progress in the understanding of the Supreme Personality of Godhead, therefore we do not accept modern science as very perfect. We take Krishna's version: gam avisya ca bhutani dharayamy aham ojasa pusnami causadhih sarvah somo bhutvah rasatmakah (BG, 15.13) ``I become the moon,'' and ``yac chandramasi yac cagnau,'' (ibid, 12) ``I am the splendor of the moon,'' and ``jyotisam api taj jyotis,'' (BG, 13.18) ``I am the source of light in all luminous objects,'' so no one is able to give us the correct information than Krishna, that you should know. Regarding Hitler, so Hitler may be good man or bad man, so what does he help to our Krishna Consciousness movement? But it is a fact that much propaganda was made against him, that much I know, and the Britishers are first-class propagandists. And I have heard that his officers did everything without informing him, just like in our ISKCON there are so many false things: ``Prabhupada said this, Prabhupada said that.'' But we have nothing to do with Hitler in our Krishna Consciousness. Do not be deviated by such ideas ``Jnanam jneyam jnana-gamyam,'' (ibid), Krishna is knowledge, He is the object of knowledge, He is the goal of knowledge, and you mam evam asammudho janati purusottamam sa sarva-vid bhajati mam (BG, XV, 19) ``Whoever knows Me as the Supreme Personality of Godhead, without doubting, is to be understood as the knower of everything, and he engages himself therefore in devotional service''--this is the understanding of advanced devotee, so my best advice to you is to agree to come to this understanding. Your ever well-wisher, A. C. Bhaktivedanta Swami (Srila Prabhupada 1972) In the letter, Srila Prabhupada advances an epistemological argument that the Chakra team left out of the reference and which does not support the meaning they assign to the portion they quote. Srila Prabhupada speaks about how we receive information: "for anyone who is sincerely convinced that Krishna is the Supreme Personality of Godhead, for him these questions do not arise." Why do these questions not arise? According to Srila Prabhupada they do not arise because "our information comes from Vedas." Srila Prabhupada clearly speaks of accepting Vedic authority as a source of infallible knowledge. Srila Prabhupada comments further: "that He knows everything, and 'vedais ca sarvair aham eva vedyo vedanta-krd veda-vid eva caham,' that Krishna is non-different from Vedas, then these questions do not arise." Note that Srila Prabhupada does not (and never does throughout his teachings) ascribe the same infallibility to science, even with regard to material affairs. Another part of the quote left out (in the same paragraph, no less) by Chakra's editors conclusively describes a fundamental discrepancy between science and Vedic literature. But this is a fact that in each and every planet there is a predominant deity, as we have got experience in this planet there is a president, so it is not wonderful when the predominating deity fights with another predominating deity of another planet. The modern science takes everything as dead stone. We take it for granted that everything is being manipulated by a person in each and every affair of the cosmology. The modern scientists however could not make any progress in the understanding of the Supreme Personality of Godhead, therefore we do not accept modern science as very perfect. (Srila Prabhupada 1972) And there we have it. Wherever science and the Bhagavatam disagree on material affairs, the Bhagavatam is to be taken as authoritative not science. As to how this changes the meaning Chakra and the author of the article on Chakra ascribed to this letter, it most certainly cannot be said that Srila Prabhupada thinks the account of the creation of Rahu as provided in the Srimad-Bhagavatam is allegorical. This reference, which also appears in the book Life Comes From Life, shows otherwise: Srila Prabhupada. There are many invisible planets and stars. For example, when the Rahu planet passes before the sun and moon, there is an eclipse. But the scientists describe an eclipse differently. Actually, the Rahu planet causes an eclipse. There are many questionable points regarding the modern scientists' theory of the eclipse. Their explanation is incorrect according to Vedic information. Dr. Singh. But the scientists say that they can prove their theories. Srila Prabhupada. They say that science proves everything. But that is nonsense. The scientist has proved everything except what he is. That he does not know. And why does he die? That also he does not know. That is the extent of his knowledge. Dr. Singh. They can make a model of the universe. They can make a model of the planets and the moon. Srila Prabhupada. If they can make things, why don't they make an imitation sun to save electricity? These rascals say everything, but they cannot do anything. That is their position. If they can make a model of the universe, let them make a big model of the sun. Then in the dark night we will not have to spend so much money on electricity. But they cannot do it. Yet they speak big, big words, simply to take money from the taxpayers. They say they know the composition of the moon and the composition of the sun, so why can't they make them? Why can't they create an artificial sun so that the people of Iceland and Greenland can be saved from so much cold? (Srila Prabhupada 1973) So how should we understand Srila Prabhupada's explanation to Krsnadasa? First of all, it should be clear that Srila Prabhupada himself does not accept that the explanation of the Bhagavatam is allegorical. The reason as he himself stated is that he accepts Vedic literature as perfect and that any discrepancy between Vedic literature and science indicates fault on account of the scientists. However, Krsnadasa is Srila Prabhupada's disciple but does not fully accept the authority of Vedic literature. Srila Prabhupada is trying to bring Krsnadasa to a higher level of knowledge by preaching to him according to his understanding. The idea is that if one becomes fully Krishna conscious, then doubts will not arise because he will have fully understood the infallibility of Krishna and hence the infallibility of Vedic literature. This is similar to Srila Bhaktivinoda Thakura's writing of Sri Krishna Samhita, an attempt to preach to people who have more faith in modern science than in Vedic literature. Finally, there is this thoroughly "unscientific" explanation for eclipses: TRANSLATION After hearing from the sun and moon demigods about Rahu's attack, the Supreme Personality of Godhead, Visnu, engages His disc, known as the Sudarsana cakra, to protect them. The Sudarsana cakra is the Lord's most beloved devotee and is favored by the Lord. The intense heat of its effulgence, meant for killing non-Vaisnavas, is unbearable to Rahu, and he therefore flees in fear of it. During the time Rahu disturbs the sun or moon, there occurs what people commonly know as an eclipse. PURPORT The Supreme Personality of Godhead, Visnu, is always the protector of His devotees, who are also known as demigods. The controlling demigods are most obedient to Lord Visnu, although they also want material sense enjoyment, and that is why they are called demigods, or almost godly. Although Rahu attempts to attack both the sun and the moon, they are protected by Lord Visnu. Being very afraid of Lord Visnu's cakra, Rahu cannot stay in front of the sun or moon for more than a muhurta (forty-eight minutes). The phenomenon that occurs when Rahu blocks the light of the sun or moon is called an eclipse. The attempt of the scientists of this earth to go to the moon is as demoniac as Rahu's attack. Of course. their attempts will be failures because no one can enter the moon or sun so easily. Like the attack of Rahu, such attempts will certainly be failures. (Srila Prabhupada. Srimad-Bhagavatam) This presents yet another problem with the Rahu as allegory explanation: If this description of Vishnu battling Rahu is also allegorical, then we also come to the conclusion that the pastimes of the Supreme Personality of Godhead are also allegorical. In trying to find some deeper meaning than the plain explanation before us, we become Mayavadis, because we implicitly accept such pastimes as imaginary. The conclusion is that the material explanations in the Bhagavatam are perfect, and that differences between the Vedic version and that of the material scientists demonstrate a discrepancy in the scientific understanding. Srila Prabhupada himself does not accept the incident of Rahu as merely allegorical, although for the sake of trying to increase the faith of doubting disciples he may sometimes try to explain things in that way. It is true that there are allegorical explanations in Vedic literature, and Srila Prabhupada in his own commentary to the Srimad-Bhagavatam writes that the story of King . is in fact allegorical. Those who try to understand Vedic literature's descriptions of material phenomena as allegorical, wherever they are inconsistent with the body of modern scientific knowledge, may preserve some degree of faith in Vedic literature, but there is, however, an always present danger that they will become Mayavadis since they also risk seeing the pastimes of the Supreme Personality of Godhead as being imaginary. Fundamentally, the preference of scientific authority over Vedic authority represents a measure of faithlessness, or non-acceptance of Krishna. While some faith is better than no faith, such a world view disqualifies those who hold it from advancing further in Krishna consciousness. Works Cited Editors' Note. "Prabhupada saw Rahu as allegory" Chakra.org 14 Jun 2005. Chakra.org 14 Jun 2005. <http://chakra.org/discussions/ODiscJun14_05.html> Srila Prabhupada. "Letter to Krsnadasa" 7 Nov 1972 Srila Prabhupada. "The Sixteenth Morning Walk: December 10, 1973." Life Comes From Life Srila Prabhupada. Srimad-Bhagavatam 5.24.3 trans + purp.

Madhavendu (das) SSM (Vrindavan - IN) 03-Jun-05 The youth of Bangladesh are swept away by Krishna Consciousness. --------------------------- Dear all, Please accept my humble obeisances. All glories to Srila Prabhupada. Here some enlivening news that I would like share with all you great Vaisnavas out there. The youth of Bangladesh are swept away by Krishna Consciousness. The international society for Krishna Consciousness commenced its propagation in Bangladesh in an effective manner in 1980. In the millennium year ISKCON was awarded land of 1.5 acres as charity in the Swamibag area of Dhaka metropolitan city, Bangladesh. A prominent local monk by the designation of Trailanga Swami who almost presided over in this world for 250 years had a disciple named Tripulinga Swami, who in turn also lived for 150 years or so. Hence the name of the area is kept after these personalities. In the above mentioned tract of land, there were temples of small sizes dedicated to different demigods like Lord Shiva and Goddess Kali. Gradually, local slum inhabitants occupied the same. At last Sri Yasodanandan Acharya, who was acting as the last priest of the main temple, allotted it to ISKCON. The ISKCON management is endeavoring very scrutinizingly to exile unauthorized denizens of the place, now since in official hold of the premises. In the year 2000, Lord Jagganath's chariot festivals were coordinated by members of ISKCON and by their various hard labor were able to install the deities of Lord Jagganath, Lady Subhadra and Lord Baladeva, occupied with daily execution of service to Their Transcendental Lordship. Since, congregation of 50,000 accumulates annually to celebrate the nine days festivity of Ratha Yatra. Moreover, approximately 10,000 youngsters gather up in ISKCON Swamibag every Friday and hold various programs. Some specials programs are also scheduled by ISKCON devotees and volunteers during Sri Krishna Janmastami which attract more than the Ratha Yatra. Additionally, places pertaining to divine exploits of the entourage of Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu are present in Bangladesh namely: Pundarik Vidyanidhi -- Chittagang Dist. Vasudeva Dutta -- ,, ,, Mukunda Dutta -- ,, ,, Gadadhar Pandit Goswami--- ,, ,, Narrotam das Thakur Kheturi, Rajsahi Dist. Jagganath Mishra -------Bel Pukuria , Sylet Dist. Sachi Mata -------- ,, ,, ,, Srivas Pandit ------------------------------ ,, ,, Murari Gupta Adaita Acarya Madhavendra Puripda Haridas Thakur Jessor Dist. Rupa Goswami ,, ,, Sanatan Goswami ,, ,, Loknath Goswami ,, ,, At present about 100 Brahmacaris are living in Swamibag. They have two separate preaching teams along with drama parties preaching Krishna Consciousness gospel. Many foreign devotees from various countries have joined them to fulfill Sankirtan Yajna and visit palaces related to Gaudiya Sampradaya. By the Mercy of Lord Caitanya Mahaprabhu, the devotees in Swamibag are expecting the construction of elegant ISKCON Swamibag Temple, they invite all the devotees around the world to visit the Temple and join together for full success. Here I found few quotes where Srila Prabhupada is giving instruction regarding preaching in Bangladesh. I am sure this will be inspiring for those who are preaching in Bangladesh and who may begin in the future. "What are your plans for Bangladesh? That is great opportunity, and when Americans will speak about this philosophy, the Muslims in Bangladesh will agree to hear and it will be very convincing. Try to convince upon them the high philosophy we follow. This is the only means to unify the whole world. Letter to: Tamal Krishna---Honolulu 11 May,1972 I have already advised Tamala Krishna Goswami to go to Bangladesh and if you also sometimes join with him and preach this Krishn Consciousness movement amongst the Mohammedans in Bangladesh, it will be a great service. So far the practical side is concerned, as it was possible to attract so many Christians and Jews to this movement in your country, similarly, it is possible to attract the Muslims in Bangladesh by administering the right medicine. So try your best and Krishna will help you. Letter to: Acyutananda----Honolulu, 16 May, 1972. When you go there, on cooperation with him you can establish a center in Bangladesh by mutual arrangement, and that will be very suitable for your preaching. If the Americans can take up this movement seriously, why not the Bangladesh people? Try to meet with this educated public, and if you can convince them, it will be a great service.Letter to: Tamal Krishna---Honolulu, 16 May, 1972." Your servant Madhavendu das

>However, "end dates" are not the same as "date of composition," and it is truly disappointing that university scholars routinely fail to distinguish between them. An "end date" means that the text could not have been composed after the date in question. It does not mean the the text was composed at that time. Nor does it mean that the text was not composed prior to that date. the oldest scriptures we have are generally written on palm leaves (not metal or stone, since the scriptures were too long). and the longest these can last is, say, 1200 years. that is why the oldest copies of the scriptures we have date from 600 to 800 AD. since the tradition is based primarily on sruti, this does not prove that the composition itself is not of much greater antiquity.

on this thread. however, i wish that people who are answering questions/representing the Vedic view would log in, so that we can know who is saying what. thanks, jpd

my question is, if you go to heaven, do you go at the time of death or at some later time of judgment, such as judgment day? thanks, jpd

is the perfect person to comment on this, because he has faith in Prabhupada and is also a man of science. he even has an understanding of Vedic astrology, which is very rare and a subject of much mystery.

"The Sanskrit statements of Srimad-Bhagavatam are all transcendental sounds. Srila Vyasadeva revealed these statements after perfect realization, and therefore they are perfect, for liberated sages like Vyasadeva never commit errors in their rhetorical arrangements. Unless one accepts this fact, there is no use in trying to obtain help from the revealed scriptures." (Prabhupada CC Adi 2.86 purport)

quotes from the bible or koran about this? i do know from my catholic background that there is a simultaneous contradictory belief that a) when you die you go to heaven and b) you remain 'in the ground'? until the judgment day. then what, you go to heaven as a rotted corpse? God comes and judges all the rotted corpses? to me, it seems like a materialistic idea. therefore i am interested to see what are the actual scriptural references for this belief. if we do have to wait until judgement day to go to heaven, then what do we do until then? just chill? go to limbo?