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muralidhar_das

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Posts posted by muralidhar_das


  1.  

    Just like the word timingila is translated today as "shark" (when it actually referred to gigantic fish that could swallow ships), so in the same way the microscopic indragopa is today reffered to as a ladybug.

     

    From traditional usage the word never referred to lady bugs, but in modern indic languages ladybugs are called indragopa, just as today sharks are called timingila.

     

    You have already stated that you think this ladybug is the smallest visible insect in the world, but anyone with eyes knows the size of a lady bug. They are around half a centimeter in length. If we take a simple insect like lice, which has been universally known about throughout the world for thousands of years, we can easily see that lady bugs would not have been the smallest known insect in ancient India. Your speculation that indragopa refers to some other tiny bug is just something off the top of your head. Either you should accept the dictionary definition you have provided (a ladybug), or you should show some traditional usage that identifies indragopa with your speculation.

    Will you admit now that this statement of yours is wrong?

     

    Srimad Bhagavatam use the word indragopa to describe a reddish insect that can see with your eyes. An indragopa is not a microscopic creature that can only be seen with a microscope.

     

     

    Bhaktivedanta VedaBase: Śrīmad Bhāgavatam 10.20.11

     

     

    haritā haribhiḥ śaṣpair

    indragopaiś ca lohitā

    ucchilīndhra-kṛta-cchāyā

    nṛṇāḿ śrīr iva bhūr abhūt

     

     

    SYNONYMS

    haritāḥ — greenish; haribhiḥ — which is green; śaṣpaiḥ — because of the newly grown grass; indragopaiḥ — because of the indragopa insects; ca — and; lohitā — reddish; ucchilīndhra — by the mushrooms; kṛta — afforded; chāyā — shelter; nṛṇām — of men; śrīḥ — the opulence; iva — just as; bhūḥ — the earth; abhūt — became.

     

     

    TRANSLATION

    The newly grown grass made the earth emerald green, the indragopa insects added a reddish hue, and white mushrooms added further color and circles of shade. Thus the earth appeared like a person who has suddenly become rich.

     

     

    PURPORT

    Śrīla Śrīdhara Svāmī comments that the word nṛṇām indicates men of the royal order. Thus the colorful display of dark green fields decorated with bright red insects and white mushroom umbrellas can be compared to a royal parade displaying the military strength of a king.

     

     


  2.  

     

    Conclusion: You have defeated your own position, therefore there is nothing left for me to prove. The only reason you brought up indragopa was to prove that bacteria could not be lifeforms since they are "smaller" than the indragopa (which is the smallest lifeform). But now that you have accepted there are many life forms smaller than indragopa and that it was all just poetry, your argument is self defeated.

     

    Hare Krishna.

    You act as if you have given a proper analysis and refutation of the things I was saying. Twice, I asked you to show me evidence that a bacteria has the qualities of a soul, a person, but you didn't do that. You neglect the major issue, or maybe you ducked it. And your reply message was simply oozing with the obvious feeling of antipathy that you feel for me. I can live with that. No problem. But I don't like people to misrepresent what I am saying.

     

    Let me say, in my own words, what I have been aguing all along.

     

    A soul is a conscious, individual entity. A soul has the capacity of thinking, feeling and willing. As far as I can see, bacteria don't appear to be people. They are not thinking, feeling people with free will. Little bugs such as ladybugs and glowworms and the indragopa are individual souls. But I don't believe bacteria are.


  3. Yes ants are smaller than ladybugs and the Veda rishis would certainly have observed this.

     

    Perhaps when they were talking about indragopa it is just a generic name like "bugs". There is no doubt, however, that people can see an indragopa bug because the Bhagavatam verse above and the earlier Ramayana verse both describe how these red bugs were visible on the grass after monsoon rains.

     

    JNDas lives in a part of India where this does not occur. Maybe he should move on from the place he is at now, but somehow I think he is very fixated on remaining in his present state.


  4. Bhaktivedanta VedaBase: Śrīmad Bhāgavatam 10.20.11

     

     

    haritā haribhiḥ śaṣpair

    indragopaiś ca lohitā

    ucchilīndhra-kṛta-cchāyā

    nṛṇāḿ śrīr iva bhūr abhūt

     

     

    SYNONYMS

    haritāḥ — greenish; haribhiḥ — which is green; śaṣpaiḥ — because of the newly grown grass; indragopaiḥ — because of the indragopa insects; ca — and; lohitā — reddish; ucchilīndhra — by the mushrooms; kṛta — afforded; chāyā — shelter; nṛṇām — of men; śrīḥ — the opulence; iva — just as; bhūḥ — the earth; abhūt — became.

     

     

    TRANSLATION

    The newly grown grass made the earth emerald green, the indragopa insects added a reddish hue, and white mushrooms added further color and circles of shade. Thus the earth appeared like a person who has suddenly become rich.

     

     

    PURPORT

    Śrīla Śrīdhara Svāmī comments that the word nṛṇām indicates men of the royal order. Thus the colorful display of dark green fields decorated with bright red insects and white mushroom umbrellas can be compared to a royal parade displaying the military strength of a king.

     

     

    ==========

    Insects that are big enough to see.

     

    I guess this settles the matter once and for all JNDas.


  5. JNDas my Guru Maharaj said there is one sun in each solar system, each brahmanda. You may think a brahmanda is a "universe". You may think there is one sun in the universe. You may believe that to remain faithful to your Prabhupada you have to believe there is only one sun in the universe. As you wish, so it will be.

     

    You many believe a woman's brain is half the size of a man's or a thousand other things that have nothing to do with spirituality. Think whatever you want, since the jiva has free will.

     

    But for my part I like to think that a great missionary of Gaudiya Vaishnavism such as Srila A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada came to the west through the power and grace of Sri Krishna Chaitanyadeva so that the Sri Krishna Sankirtana could spread to every town and villge. He didn't come to teach medicine or science.


  6.  

    So your argument went like this:

     

    Yesterday:

    1) Indragopa is the smallest form of life accepted in the scriptures.

    2) Indragopa refers to a lady bug.

    3) Therefore bacteria cannot be lifeforms, as they are smaller than the lady bug (which was the smallest form of life accepted).

     

    Today:

    1) Actually there are many smaller forms of life than the lady bug.

    2) The use of ladybug was poetic.

    3) Therefore the argument you made yesterday is invalid.

     

    Conclusion: You have defeated your own position, therefore there is nothing left for me to prove. The only reason you brought up indragopa was to prove that bacteria could not be lifeforms since they are "smaller" than the indragopa (which is the smallest lifeform). But now that you have accepted there are many life forms smaller than indragopa and that it was all just poetry, your argument is self defeated.

     

    Hare Krishna.

     

     

    The indragopa bug is something that can be seen.

     

    Your idea that the indragopa, the smallest form of life, is microscopic is not supported by any scripture. Where in the Vedas is there any reference to cells, bacteria, or microscopic organisms?

     

    The idea that living bodies are composed of cells and that such things as bacteria exist is a discovery of European science.

     

    European science deals with physical nature; the Vedic scriptures are dealing with spirituality. Two different topics.


  7. Monier-Williams Sanskrit-English Dictionary:

    <!-- BEGIN TEMPLATE: bbcode_quote --> Quote:

    <table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="100%"> <tbody><tr> <td style="border: 1px solid rgb(102, 102, 102); padding-left: 3ex; padding-right: 3ex;" bgcolor="#e0e0e0"> <dl><dt>⋙ indragopa </dt><dd>○gopa or ā mfn. Ved. having Indra as one's protector RV. viii, 46, 32 </dd><dd>• m. the insect cochineal of various kinds </dd><dd>• a fire-fly (in this sense also indra-gopaka) </dd></dl></td> </tr> </tbody></table>

    <!-- END TEMPLATE: bbcode_quote --> According to Rig Veda, an insect that is herded (gopa) by Indra.

     

    A red insect that appears after heavy rain:

    <!-- BEGIN TEMPLATE: bbcode_quote --> Quote:

    <table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="100%"> <tbody><tr> <td style="border: 1px solid rgb(102, 102, 102); padding-left: 3ex; padding-right: 3ex;" bgcolor="#e0e0e0"> Flying quickly to meet their longed-for cloud, a jubilant row of herons looks like a long garland of white lotus flowers adorning the sky. With its new grass sprinkled with new-born red indragopa insects, the earth looks charming like a woman with a green blanket speckled with red conchineal wrapped tightly around her waist.

    -Valmiki Ramayana, Kishkindha-Kanda, chapter 1

    (Sugriva Detects the Presence of Rama) </td> </tr> </tbody></table>

    <!-- END TEMPLATE: bbcode_quote -->

    According to sage Valmiki, here in the Ramayana, the indragopa is a red bug that is big enough to be seen on the green grass that grows after monsoon rains began.

     

    It is not a microscopic bacteria - a thing that can only be seen with the aid of a microscope.


  8.  

     

    Bhagavad-gītā As It Is 2.18 purport,

    <!-- BEGIN TEMPLATE: bbcode_quote --> Quote:

    <table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="100%"> <tbody><tr> <td style="border: 1px solid rgb(102, 102, 102); padding-left: 3ex; padding-right: 3ex;" bgcolor="#e0e0e0"> As sunlight maintains the entire universe, so the light of the soul maintains this material body. As soon as the spirit soul is out of this material body, the body begins to decompose; therefore it is the spirit soul which maintains this body. </td> </tr> </tbody></table>

    <!-- END TEMPLATE: bbcode_quote -->

    that is singular.... soul..... not souls....

     

     

    Yes.


  9.  

    First off, you have copied a segment from a sanskrit-french dictionary. I really have no idea why you did that, but I would guess it probably reflects something about your sanskrit knowledge. Your view is that indragopa in english means "coccinelle", but of course that isn't even an english word. It's a french word. So I seriously doubt you have any academic experience as to what the word means or how it is used.

     

    In fact I am very well aquainted with cochineal and coccinelle for several years given the fact that coccinelle is a red colouring used in sweets. I regularly check packets of sweets my children want to eat to see if the red sweets contain coccinelle.

     

    Yes I did a quick copy and paste from a dictionary. Please excuse my sloppy scholarship.

     

    Perhaps I should be more scholarly and more submissive to the authority you think I should follow. But in fact I feel it is proper service to Srila Prabhupada if I give up being a blind-faith swallower of "vedabase data" and instead make an effort to try and find out the Truth. But then there are some people who think it is best if everyone blindly accepts every bit of data in the database, and every statement spoken by the various sages of the past. Such as the proposition that people who are keeping long hairs are rejected as disciples by a true Guru.

     

    Anyway, this is a digression. Here is the indragopa again from another source:

    Monier-Williams Sanskrit-English Dictionary

     

    <dl> <dt>⋙ indragopa </dt><dd>○gopa or ā mfn. Ved. having Indra as one's protector RV. viii, 46, 32 </dd><dd>• m. the insect cochineal of various kinds </dd><dd>• a fire-fly (in this sense also indra-gopaka)

    </dd> </dl> I hope Monier Williams is pukka enough for you.

     

    Q: What does the word “indragopa” mean.

    A: It is an insect that is herded (gopa) by Indra. That is, an insect that appears after heavy rain.

    Flying quickly to meet their longed-for cloud, a jubilant row of herons looks like a long garland of white lotus flowers adorning the sky. With its new grass sprinkled with new-born red indragopa insects, the earth looks charming like a woman with a green blanket speckled with red conchineal wrapped tightly around her waist.

    -Ramayana, Kishkindha-Kanda, chapter 1

    (Sugriva Detects the Presence of Rama)

    Q: What colour is the indragopa insect?

    A: Scarlet red.

     

     

    Q: How can it be said that the indragopa is red? If an indragopa is microscopic or the size of a bacteria or a single human cell then they are too small to see. But as the Ramayana says, these red bugs on the green grass that were seen in South India by the Rishi look like a green blanket speckled with red cochineal.

     

     

     

     

    Sri Garga-samhita, Canto Three, Chapter One

    Text 3

    atha megha-gaëäù kruddhä

    dhvanantaç citra-varëinaù

    kåñëäbhäù pétabhäù kecit

    kecic ca harita-prabhäù

    atha—then; megha-gaëäù—the clouds; kruddhä—angry; dhvanantaç—thundering; citra-varëinaù—wonderfully colored; kåñëäbhäù—black; pétabhäù—yellow; kecit—some; kecic—some; ca—and; harita-prabhäù—green.

    The clouds thundered with anger. They were many wonderful colors, some black, some yellow, some green, . . .

    Text 4

    indragopa-nibhäù kecit

    kecit karpüravat-prabhäù

    nänä-vidhäç ca ye meghä

    néla-paìkaja-su-prabhäù

    indragopa-nibhäù—the color of an indrgopa insect; kecit—some; kecit—some; karpüravat-prabhäù—the color of camphor; nänä—various; vidhäù—kinds; ca—and; ye—which; meghä—clouds; néla-paìkaja-su-prabhäù—the color of a blue lotus.

    . . . some the color of an indragopa insect, some the color of camphor, and some the color of blue lotuses.

    In regard to your statements about how the Veda Rishis would have observed smaller creatures than ladybugs, so why would they say that ladybugs are the smallest creatures...

    My answer is that the Vedas are poetry and they were using ladybugs as a poetic symbol of small insects generally.

     


  10. Well, what can I say.

     

    Lots of quotes from Srila Prabhupada saying that the different cells in a body are different living beings.

     

    Srila Sridhar Maharaj was quite clear, saying there is one soul in a living human body.

     

    I guess this is like the situation where you have lots of quotes where Srila Prabhupada says that souls fall down from Vaikuntha.

     

    Adios, amigos.


  11. There are 8,400,000 species of life according to the Vedas.

     

    aquatics, birds, men, plants are on the list.

     

    I haven't seen "bacteria" listed anywhere, even though there are a collosal number of species. The fact is, the Veda rishis did not describe bacteria. Or nuclear fission. Or DNA. These topics are outside the area of research of those Mystic Yogis.

     

    380px-Tree_of_life_1500px_coloured.png magnify-clip.png

    Bacteria are colored blue, eukaryotes red, and archaea green. Relative positions of some phyla are shown around the tree.


  12. I think the rishis probably were talking about little bugs like ladybugs when they talked about "indragopa" bugs.

     

    They were mentioning little bugs like these because those bugs were the smallest living things they knew about.

     

    And again, since you deigned to ignore my question about whether bacteria germs are people I will put this question to you again.

     

     

    JNDas here is a puzzle for you.

    Could you please show me some evidence that bacteria and blood cells show signs of being conscious individual souls? The capacities of a living being that we associate with "consciousness" namely thinking, willing and feeling, please demonstrate how bacteria exhibit these capacities.

     

    And for your information I don't think the Veda Rishis were idiots.

     

    I think Veda Rishis presented information about how souls can attain Narayana - that is the purpose of the Vedas. But he Veda Rishis did not write science texts!

     

    Additionally, my Guru Maharaj said that there is one soul in a living body, and quoted the following verse in this regard

     

    Quote:

    <table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="100%"> <tbody><tr> <td style="border: 1px solid rgb(102, 102, 102); padding-left: 3ex; padding-right: 3ex;" bgcolor="#e0e0e0"> as the sun alone illuminates all this universe, so does the living entity, one within the body, illuminate the entire body by consciousness. (Gita 13. 34)

    </td> </tr> </tbody></table>

    <!-- END TEMPLATE: bbcode_quote --> The translation is by "your" acharyya.

     

    Your Acharyya says "the living entity, one within the body, illuminate(s) the entire body"

     

     

    ****************************

     

    Bhagavad-gītā As It Is 13.34 yathā prakāśayaty ekaḥ

    kṛtsnaḿ lokam imaḿ raviḥ

    kṣetraḿ kṣetrī tathā kṛtsnaḿ

    prakāśayati bhārata

    yathāas; prakāśayati — illuminates; ekaḥ — one; kṛtsnam — the whole; lokam — universe; imam — this; raviḥ — sun; kṣetram — this body; kṣetrī — the soul; tathā — similarly; kṛtsnam — all; prakāśayati — illuminates; bhārataO son of Bharata.


  13. JNDas here is a puzzle for you.

     

    Could you please show me some evidence that bacteria and blood cells show signs of being conscious individual souls? The capacities of a living being that we associate with "consciousness" namely thinking, willing and feeling, please demonstrate how bacteria exhibit these capacities.

     

    According to the Brahma Samhita the smallest form of life is an indragopa creature; and in the Brhadaranyaka Upanishad it states that the indragopa is a scarlet insect - not a single cell organism.

     

     

     

     

     

    1.3.6

     

     

    The form of that person is like a cloth dyed with turmeric, or like grey sheep's wool, or like the scarlet insect called Indragopa, or like a tongue of fire, or like a white lotus, or like a flash of lightning. He who knows this—his splendour is like a flash of lightning. Now, therefore, the description of Brahman: "Not this, not this" (Neti, Neti); for there is no other and more appropriate description than this "Not this." Now the designation of Brahman: "The Truth of truth." The vital breath is truth and It (Brahman) is the Truth of that.

     

     

    Below is a picture of an indragopa - a ladybug or coccinelle

     

    coccinelle01.jpg

    http://sanskrit.inria.fr/DICO/11.html

    yas tv indra-gopam athavendram aho sva-karma-

    bandhanurupa-phala-bhajanam atanoti

    karmani nirdahati kintu ca bhakti-bhajam

    govindam adi-purusam tam aham bhajami

    "I worship Govinda, the primeval Lord, who regulates the sufferings and enjoyments of the fruitive activities for everyone, from Indra, the king of heaven, down the smallest insect, the Indragopa. That very Personality of Godhead burns to ashes the karmic reactions of one engaged in His devotional service."

     


  14.  

    It is quite amazing that this discussion can move from whether cells in the body have souls, to people (vaishnavas) openly saying that trees have no souls, bacteria have no souls, potatos have no souls, etc.

     

    It is quite shocking to find that there are vaishnavas who after decades of studying our shastras would conclude that trees, bacteria or plants have no individual soul. It is just a step away from the Christians saying animals also don't have souls and can therefore be farmed for meat.

     

     

    I am not trying to say trees have no souls

     

    What I tried to say is that the Devata of a type of tree is controlling the many bodies of a type of tree, in the same way that Indra is controlling all the storms that are scattered all around the world.

     

    The soul in a body of a man is very tiny, according to the Vedas. But that soul can control the fingers and toes of its body. That is the idea I have about this issue.

     

    Thus, in my OPINION, based upon what I heard from my Guru, the goddess of smallpox is indeed the soul of all smallpox germs and there are not millions of souls in smallpox cells. AIDS in fact may be one "ghost" or it may be another form of the goddess of disease.

     

    Guruvani has already posted the quote from your Srila Prabhupada saying that the blood corpuscles get energy and go on their way throughout the body. The blood corpuscles are not individual people and neither are germs of bacteria. Bacteria are parts of the body of the earth, or parts of the "power" or shakti or a particular Deva.

     

    Like I said, I am not totally sure about all this, but this is my view or OPINION.

     

    And as far as books go, I believe "no book is without its errors" (to quote Thakur Bhaktivinode)


  15. Suchandra I can respect your feeling of faith in His Divine Grace Srila Prabhupada.

     

    But please be mindful that there are other devotees in this world who have faith in other Vaishnavas besides your Srila Prabhupada. Some of these Vaishnavas I know were chanting Hare Krishna and following Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Saraswati Thakur for 70 years. Iskcon is not the only Sampradaya.


  16.  

    Vigraha's post is scriptually solid and everything is backed up with references that all posts must have to be taken seriously.

     

     

     

    Vigraha is saying that all souls are eternally liberated.

     

    But the scriptures say there are two kinds of souls, nitya-siddha and nitya-baddha, or in other words eternally siddha souls and souls in illusion.

     

    Vigraha (Gaura Gopala dasa) says the nitya-baddha souls are all nitya-siddhas. This is just plain stupid


  17. In regard to banyan trees and other plants, I have often wondered if a soul in the body of a tree really does have an awareness of the boundaries of its own body.

     

    When I said that the spirit of a tree may be like a ghost I was feeling this metaphor is appropriate. The ghost can haunt many bodies at the same time. I feel this metaphor is close to what I feel may be happening in nature.

     

    If you get a handful of leaves of the "african violet" plant and put it on a table and then take a chopping knife and cut the leaves up into hundreds of pieces then each of them will grow into a new plant, if you nurture them. Do you think souls suddenly get born when you chop off the individual eyes of a potato, since each of the eyes can grow and become a new plant?


  18. I can't understand the connection with Mayavada. Sorry.

     

    From one point of view only Krishna exists. He is everything. Every Thing.

     

     

    Sri Krishna says:

    Gold remains gold both before and after ornaments are made of it. It only gets different names such as ring or necklace. Similarly, the Reality, the Cause of creation, is the same both before and after worldly objects receive their various names and forms.

    -Srimad Bhagavat Purana (11.28.19)

     

    But he is savisesha-brahma and not nirvisesha-brahma. Krishna has features and potencies and the jiva souls are part of one of his potencies. Those jiva souls are eternal individual entities.


  19.  

    That is directed to the Supreme Personality of Godhead, Vamana. It is describing His universal form. The trees are hairs on his body which is the standard description as to His universal form. That does not mean the trees do not contain individual souls.

     

    Humans also have their place in the universal form and obviously the human form has an individual soul within it.

     

    I agree that there are souls in tree bodies. But I'm a practical person theist.

     

    Think about this... if you get a branch of a banyan tree and put it in some moist mossy soil it will grow roots and become another tree. My contention is that the single "ghost" or devata of the banyan tree may be simultaneously present in many trees we see growing in different places.

     

    When we talk about the universal form we are not talking about a sat-chit-ananda body that is eternal. Rather, we are talking about a conglomerate body that encompasses (and surpasses) the beings in the whole of creation. The hairs on the body of the universal form are, in my view, jivas, not Visnu.

     

    Does that answer your question?


  20. Sri Sridhar Dev Goswami Maharaj has described that every thing has five features associated with it: 1) the particular thing (object), 2) the devata, 3) Guru, 4) Baladeva, and ultimately Svayam Bhagavan 5) Sri Sri Radha-Krishna.

     

    In the materialistic conception of life we see an object such as a man as a particular physical object. A man is a particular thing. But where do the boundaries defining my human body begin and end? My body is a state of flux - food, breath, the light entering my eyes, the words going out my mouth - my body is simply a part of nature and it is always Maya and never Me.

     

    The devata refers to the concept or universal which is controlling any particular thing. Every object has an idea (concept) associated with it. Seen from the plane of consciousness that concept is called a devata. This idea is the concept of "doggishness", "slug consciousness", "fish consciousness" etc. These ideas push animals to act out of "instinct" so that they dog barks instinctively when it feels threatened, and defecates when it feels that kind of urge. The force of the devata manifests through individual dogs and fish so they act instinctively and without showing any intelligence. But we human beings are not controlled by instinctive thoughts in the way animals are. The instinctive knowledge (devata) is something we can overcome through using our intelligence. Moreover, we are told by Srila Sridhar Maharaj that we should not be concerned with seeing how the devata is existing within objects and controlling objects, since the desire to get knowledge of the devatas, the desire to get an understanding of the mechanics of their Powers (siddhi), is a manifestation of the Maya shakti.

     

    Above the devatas is Guru. In Srila Sridhar Maharaj's teachings about Sankhya, he says Guru indicates the pure consciousness (buddhi) that enables the jiva to see things as they really are. The consciousness of Guru descends within us and enables us to see the things in nature with divya-jnana, or proper vision. When we see nature in the way the suddha-vaishnavas see it, we see how things are in Reality. At that time, when I know what is real and what is false, I become able to be my own Guru, according to Srila Govinda Dev Goswami Maharaj.

     

    Baladeva is the spiritual manifestative energy known as sandhini shakti. When one acts under the direction of Sri Guru in a mood of full surrender he automatically comes in contact with Baladeva who is controlling the whole of Nature

     

     

    CC Ādi 5.42: There [in the spiritual sky] the personal feature of Balarāma called Mahā-sańkarṣaṇa is the shelter of the spiritual energy. He is the primary cause, the cause of all causes.

    CC Ādi 5.43: One variety of the pastimes of the spiritual energy is described as pure goodness [viśuddha-sattva]. It comprises all the abodes of Vaikuṇṭha.

    CC Ādi 5.44: The six attributes are all spiritual. Know for certain that they are all manifestations of the opulence of Sańkarṣaṇa.

    CC Ādi 5.45: There is one marginal potency, known as the jīva. Mahā-sańkarṣaṇa is the shelter of all jīvas.

    CC Ādi 5.46: Sańkarṣaṇa is the original shelter of the puruṣa, from whom this world is created and in whom it is dissolved.

    CC Ādi 5.47: He [Sańkarṣaṇa] is the shelter of everything. He is wonderful in every respect, and His opulences are infinite. Even Ananta cannot describe His glory.

    CC Ādi 5.48: That Sańkarṣaṇa, who is transcendental pure goodness, is a partial expansion of Nityānanda Balarāma.

     

     

    Beyond this is the lila of Radha Govinda. I cannot go there now. I'm in the stage where I'm trying to see Reality through the grace of Sri Guru.


  21. What about this:

    <!-- BEGIN TEMPLATE: bbcode_quote --> Quote:

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    SB 2.10.23: When there was a desire to perceive the physical characteristics of matter, such as softness, hardness, warmth, cold, lightness and heaviness, the background of sensation, the skin, the skin pores, the hairs on the body and their controlling deities (the trees) were generated. Within and outside the skin is a covering of air through which sense perception became prominent. </td> </tr> </tbody></table>

    the hairs on the body and their controlling deities (the trees) were generated

     

    deities means devas.

     

    deities means individual souls who are the contollers of a particular category of things. indra has an influence over storms that are moving in the skies all over the world, a tree deva has an influence over all the trees of his category.

     

     

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  22. Shaligram hailed Vrinda devi saying:

    "Your hair will transform into sacred trees and as being born of you, they will be known by the name of Tulsi. The whole world will perform their rituals with the leaves and flowers of this Tulsi plant. Therefore, O fair-faced one! You will be reckoned as the chief amongst all vegetation. All the sacred pilgrimages will reside at the bottom of the Tulsi tree, where I and all the other deities will sit, waiting in anticipation to be blessed by a falling leaf."

     

     

    SB 10.40.13-14: Fire is said to be Your face, the earth Your feet, the sun Your eye, and the sky Your navel. The directions are Your sense of hearing, the chief demigods Your arms, and the oceans Your abdomen. Heaven is thought to be Your head, and the wind Your vital air and physical strength. The trees and plants are the hairs on Your body, the clouds the hair on Your head, and the mountains the bones and nails of You, the Supreme. The passage of day and night is the blinking of Your eyes, the progenitor of mankind Your genitals, and the rain Your semen.

     

     

    Vamana-Vishnu started to grow in size. He grew and grew until he filled the whole universe. Everything was within his form - the earth, the seas, the birds, beasts and human beings and the planets themselves. Bali saw everything that existed in that wonderful form of the Lord. His feet were the surface of the earth, his breath was the wind, his hair was the clouds and his eyes were the sun. The lower planets were on the souls of his feet and the heavenly planets were on his head.

     

     

    SB 2.10.21: Thus when everything existed in darkness, the Lord desired to see Himself and all that was created. Then the eyes, the illuminating god Sun, the power of vision and the object of sight all became manifested.

     

    SB 2.10.22: By development of the desire of the great sages to know, the ears, the power of hearing, the controlling deity of hearing, and the objects of hearing became manifested. The great sages desired to hear about the Self.

     

    SB 2.10.23: When there was a desire to perceive the physical characteristics of matter, such as softness, hardness, warmth, cold, lightness and heaviness, the background of sensation, the skin, the skin pores, the hairs on the body and their controlling deities (the trees) were generated. Within and outside the skin is a covering of air through which sense perception became prominent.

    In the beginning there were no physical bodies and no material world.

     

    Then the eye to see things evolved from consciousness. Then the ear to hear something outside ourself. Then the feeling of space and air.

     

    When the skin that feels SENSATION manfested, the trees also became manifest from Brahma (Brahman). Souls sleeping in Brahman that were interested in experiencing the feelings felt by trees entered into the differentiated form of different categories of trees. They are the tree devas. They are different from specific individual trees in the same way that a flute song is different from the individual notes of the song.

     

    In this way, the world evolved within time and space.

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