Pita das

western people have not started yet .Now you want to cristise Krishna also who are you to be so intelligent.?This kind of intelligence dooms one

Guruvani Srila Prabhupada did not like waisting time on endless orgin debates

to continue to do so is useless.To aquate the words of the acraya as fairy tales will not help you in your progress to reawaken your dormate Krishna Consciousness.It seems you walk on thin ice and are about to fall in.

Srila Prabhupada has said that once going back to Godhead one will not again fall back to the material world .His Divine Grace's example was that of placeing ones hand in fire ,once we understand what is fire we will not place our hands in into fire again.

So whom here will place thier hand in fire to be burned ,we certianly all advoid that, we have the abilty to but no one would do it willfully.

Once we go back Home Back to Godhead we do not willfully return back to the material world .To serve Krishna tho if ordered the devottee will whatever is His pleasure

Srila Prabhupada never ONCE said that any devotee has ever fallen from Goloka or become in illusion in Goloka.

It is simply absurd to even propose that he was saying that.

<!-- / message -->Agreed

This was the statement of His Holiness Bhakti Vaibava Puri Maharaja as told to me by my godbrother Guru Kripa Prabhu .

Only if one follows the previous authority transparently can they have any power to present the message of his authority .To the degree that they surrender to the spiritual master that much impowerment will manifest within them or not so.

Srila Bhaktisiddanta is Gaura Vani impowered by Lord Chaintaya and by Srila Prabhupada's surrender to Him was His impowerment possible.

In the preaching, letters and even the books of Srila Prabhupada we find a very unique style of commentary and preaching that is unique even compared to any of the predecessor acharyas.

 

For example, Srila Prabhupada introduced the theme "back to Godhead" which promotes a kind of idea that we have fallen down from Goloka and become conditioned souls.

 

But, in the books of Srila Prabhupada we read that liberated souls are perfect and not subject to illusion or falldown. We read that no one falls down from Vaikuntha and that the liberated souls in Vaikuntha are infallible.

 

Still, despite shastric statements about the infallibility of liberated souls and the perfection of the nitya siddhas we see a relentless refrain in the preaching of Srila Prabhupada about "back to Godhead".

 

My question on this topic is if maybe the style of preaching that Srila Prabhupada used to spread KC all over the world might eventually become outdated as Vaishnavas all over the world study the shastra and start to see through the "BACK TO GODHEAD" fairytale?

 

Or, did Srila Prabhupada just contradict himself and shastra so many times?

Was he confused about exactly how to preach to westerners and stepped outside the siddhanta as a sort of backdoor entrance into western culture?

 

The Bhaktivedanta purports are quite replete with apparent deviations from shastric conclusions. I understand it was part of Srila Prabhupada's preaching strategy. Maybe he underestimated the ability of western people to learn Sanksrit and Bengali and read the original texts and eventually find discrepancies in his translations?

 

Some ISKCON type fanatics think Srila Prabhupada is an authority unto himself and knows more than shastra and does not have to present the shastric conclusions as they are.

 

In time there has become a growing divide between English speaking devotees who don't know Sanksrit or Bengali and those western devotees who have learned.

 

It is creating growing divide that can only grow and grow in time.

 

Is ISKCON destined to become a small cult of fanatics as the greater world society of Vaishnavas gravitate towards a more literal meaning of the shastra without the Bhaktivedanta purports and the elaborate commentaries that have some sort of psychology built in that appears to cater to a certain conception of how Srila Prabhupada thought that Krishna consciousness should be understood in the western world?

 

Any devotee who learns Sanskrit or Bengali is going to find a particular unique bent on the translations that don't always stay to the literal meaning and reflects the taking of a lot of liberties in the explanation.

 

The result is that there is a growing clash between the literalists and Bhaktivedanta puports.

 

It doesn't appear that the global Vaishnava community has any hope of ever being a unified and united movement with one central doctrine that is universally accepated.

 

In fact the Bhaktivedanta purports have created an irreconcilable chasm between ISKCON and the Gaudiya Matha and ISKCON and the independent scholars of the Gaudiya canon.

 

I personally don't see how this massive rift can ever be bridged.

I guess Srila Prabhupada never wanted it to.

 

Did the Bhaktivedanta purport approach have a sort of "this philosophy will self-destruct in 50 years" mechanism built into it?

 

I just don't see how the Bhaktivedanta purports are going to be able to weather the next century without being pushed into the museum of Hare Krishna history.

 

Even ISKCON, maybe I should say especially ISKCON is also moving away from the Bhaktivedanta purport law and relegating it to the backseat of ISKCON authority.

 

ISKCON has in many ways moved on from the Bhakitvedanta Swami era and made ISKCON the property of the GBC.

 

I am personally getting to the point to where I am finding it increasingly harder and harder to keep up the rather daunting task of escavating the truth in Srila Prabhupada's books and seperate it from the Bhaktivedanta fairytales he told his ISKCON children.

 

In some ways I resent that I even am required to dig so deep in to the books of Srila Prabhupada to find the truth beyond the fairytales.

As the jiva is at one point placed at the point between spiritual and material relems the "tata" Back Home Back to Godhead is not incorrect postion.

The jiva is the eternal servant of Krishna so Back to service is also correct as eternal has no beginning .

Sancrit and Bengalli Scholars do not have the power to spread Lord Chaitianya Mission so we do not care for thier intrepretations.One has to observe if they even chant japa or follow a regulative life and serve under the authority of a bonifide devottee.

Shree Ballaba Acarya approched Lord Chaitanya with his comentary of Srimad Bhagavatum saying that his translation was superior to Sridhar Swami's.

Lord Chaitanya did not acceapt his comentary and refused to read them.

It was my understanding that Back to Godhead was under the authorship Srila Bhaktisiddanta's Prabhupada's and not my Srila Prabhupada.

This material world is the fariy tale prabhuji and the Acarya is the way out of the quicksand of this place

Bhaktivendanta Purports will become the law books for the next 10,000 years regardless of what the GM devottees preach or how the sancrit and Bengalli scholars understand sastra.

ISKCON must constantly reform itself back to Srila Prabhupada or it will fade .

In the absent of a Mahabhagavat devottee on the planet even fire flies seem very brillant.

yasya prasadad bhagavat-prasado

yasyaprasadan na gatih kuto 'pi

dhyayan stuvams tasya yasas tri-sandhyam

vande guroh sri-caranaravindam

By the mercy of the spiritual master one receives the benediction of Krsna. Without the grace of the spiritual master, one cannot make any advancement. Therefore, I should always remember and praise my spiritual master and at least three times a day I offer my respectful obeisance’s unto the lotus feet of my spiritual master.

I was born in the darkness of Ignorance but then by the wonderful Benediction of Lord Sri Krishna Chaitanya Mahaprabhu and Lord Nityananda Prabhu I came in contact with Your Divine Grace and your devotees.

I offer my humble obeisance’ to you Srila Prabhupada, again and again.

The world I was born into was just a constant place of suffering… from childhood to boyhood to youth, I suffered greatly just like I was drowning in a breathless struggle .

Where was there real truth?

Where was there real loving kindness?

Where was there real friendship?

That was my need and hope to find., Being taught untruths as truths I took shelter in Maya more and more deeply drowning I could not for see a long life for myself ,certainly I thought death would come at 35 to 40 years at the most.

Totally frustrated I met your Divine Grace’s devotee representatives, saw the Deity form of Lord Jagganatha on His cart and my suffering was at check.

A few years past with even more intense suffering until I again met your devotees ,they appeared to me the same as angels within the nightmare of my life then leading out of that nightmare and to Your Divine Grace.

I did not know at the time Srila Prabhupada that it was you that was extending your hand to me.

I just sensed, the few moments of time I had with your devotees ,the hint of the truth ,loving kindness and friendship that I so desperately longed for and needed.

I can remember the actual moment that your Loving Divine Grace Srila Prabhupada poured down upon me, at that moment my life changed.

I was given a flower to offer to your Lotus feet and I was perplexed .

The mind spoke:

What was this? Offer a flower to a man and bow to him?

Why?

Then …by Your Divine Grace I could understand that it was you ,my savoir who was extending me your hand and shelter out of my life of suffering by some grand luck I placed my small offering at Your Lotus Feet bowed down to you ,offering my first obeisance’s and my life then changed, at that moment I came under the shelter of your Lotus Feet

Your loving kindness has blessed me for 33 years now.

Srila Prabhupada you told us your Divine Grace was the teller in the bank of Krishna and that by offering our prayers to you ,Your Divine Grace was safely placing them within the Lord’s Bank.

Thank You Srila Prabhupada for your constant attention to me. Memory of your words and actions one’s life becomes purified. I bow down at your Lotus Feet Srila Prabhupada.

The devottees explained that they only offered a thali of ffod to Lord Jagganath .If they do not beleave that Lord Jaggantha is real then the remaining food which we consider parasad is boga to them.

I dont think Musliums would acceapt any food cooked by the devottees if that was so it should not be forced.

News to me too.I wonder why it is not in Krishna Book?

Im sure Krishna has every kind of animal pet whenever He desires.

Shivanada Sena dog did go back home back to Godhead on a flower airplane.

I personally just chant with Srila Prabhupadas japa tape .To me all is there ...chanting while listening to my chanting and Srila Prabhupadas as well.How much more forgenate can it be to be able to chant your rounds with a maha bhagavat.There has to be great spiritual progress made.

I personally only find this helpful in my chanting .

If I make some kind of offense I also find it hard to chant nicely so I am allways struggling to chant better.

ISKCON is not disturbed by how many disfunctional persons may be serveing within as mangers...there is an Inner and Outter circle in ISKCON .

The outter circle the disclips of Srila Prabhupada formally ...within ISKCON such as Jayaadwaita Swami or outside of it such a Tripurai Swami Jagat Guru Narasimha Swami are still ISKCON .Jahnavi Nita Prabhu's Bhaktivedanta Ashram is ISKCON .

The disinfrancized menber whom can not find a place of service within ISKCON are still part of the International society for Krishna but preaches the glories of the holy name is ISKCON,The Ritvik section is still ISKCON the GM which is now filled with Former ISKCON menbers is also ISKCON the Hari Bol International society is still ISKCON From Srila Bhaktisiddanta's branch Gaudiya Math all is ISKCON.

All of these devottees will join in kirtian together with Lord Chaitanya leading the kirtian .

ISKCON will remain as long as one person is still reading Srila Prabhupadas books and want to surrender to him.

Lalita Prasada Thakura was a highly controversial person in the Saraswata sampradaya circles, yet Prabhupada accepts him as his guru and demands his disciples show proper respect. That is true respect not some fake lip service and attitude.

Srila Prabhupadas meeting with Srila Lalita Prasada was because Srila Lalita Prasada had many volumes of unpublished writings of Srila Bhakti Vinoda Thakur and Srila Prabhupada met with him asking him if he would alow ISKCON to preserve them or at least photograph them. I do not think these were allowed to be photographed some maybe>?

Guru Kripa who was with Srila Prabhupada when His Divine Grace meet with Srila Lalita Prasada .Srila Prabhupada told Guru Kripa Yasoda Nanada Prabhu that He was a pure devottee Srila Prabhupada never said he aceapted Lalita Prasad as Guru.He Told them Srila Lalita Prasad had diffrences with His Guru Maharaja.

When Guru Kripa and Yasodananda continued to visit Srila Lailita Prasada Srila Prabhupada at frist did not object.It was only when Srila Laitla Prasada spoke to them of points not in line with Srila Bhaktisiddanta Prabhupadas teachings that Srila Prabhupada told GuruKripa 'I dont know why Srila Lalita Prasada has told you such and such ,it is best you do not go there."

Srila Lailta Prasada when they met him alone at once told Guru Kripa and Yasoda Nanda what thier eternal rasa with Krishna is.

Guru Kripa told me as soon "as Srila Prabhupada told me better not to go back I never did.And the point of telling us what our relationship with Krishna is ,yes he has told us ...but that will not take place for millions of births."

And on his deathbed Srila Prabhupada sincerely and tearfully apologized for saying these things and asked for his Godbrother's forgiveness, but somehow people like you chose to ignore that fact because it ruins your fairytale idea of Prabhupada.

Well I dont know how many of you were in His Divine Grace room when Srila Prabhupada met with HH Naranya Maharaja and HH Bon Maharaja.

I was ,Srila Prabhupada told them in a very humble way ,not tearfully but his humble way.

"Because I am an Acarya I have had to criticise your mistakes as examples to my disclips so they do not make them.( It was His Divine Grace duty to do so)I am sorry if I have offened you"

That was the compelte statement by Srila Prabhupada made to His God brother HH Bon Maharaja and his god nephew HH Naranya Maharaja.(In English)

At that point at once NM said "You can never offend because you our Guru".

Then Srila Prabhupada began converstion with the two in Hindi I could understand that Srila Prabhupada was speaking the Hindi Lanuage which meant to me that Srila Prabhupada had some desire to speak to privately, so I at once offered my Obeiances to Srila Prabhupada and left the room.

Srila Prabhupada continued to meet with these two devottees for 15 to 20 minutes more I estamate as I then remenber HH Tamal Krishna Maharaja outside of Srila Prabhupada's room speaking to HH Bon Maharaja escorting him to the gate of Sri Sri Krishna Balarama Mondir on the side of the temple

by Srila Prabhupadas room.HH Naranya Maharaja may of still have been with Srila Prabhupada.Most likey he was.

HH Bon Maharaja told Tamal Krishna Maharaja and myself as I went over to them and listened to what HH Bon Maharaja was telling TK Maharaja.

Bon Maharaja told us "dont hate Krishna for takeing srila Prabhupada,Srila Prabhupada was preparing to reenter Radha Krishna Nitya Leela."

He also told us that "now at the passing of Srila Prabhupada all of us would now be tested by fire."

Bon Maharajas words are very real to me more and more than less .

Every time I visit our Atlanta Temple so many ways the fire is burning me.

my humble opinion is that in ISKCON the siska of Srila Prabhupada is most vauleble and important for ISKCON'S health the diksa of whom is connecting the new devottee with Srila Prabhupadas instructions is a formality .

Because ISKCON has it the other way around there has been much suffering.

To quote my godbrother Teajeas Prabhu "when you have 100% purity why be intrested in 5 to 10 %".

When Srila Prabhupada was last in New Dwarka His Divine Grace would hand out cookies to all the children after every class I was lucky to get one each time Srila Prabhupada did so.As Srila Prabhupada gave me the cookie His Divine Grace would push the cookie down with his Lotus finger into my hand.I also had a flower that Srila Prabhupada threw out to us which I caught .I taped that flower into my Bhagavat Gita .I dont have that Gita any longer I must of left the Gita in New Dwarka before going to India the Summer of 1977 I never noted to other readers of that Gita that the brown mass taped down was a Flower thrown to me by Srila Prabhupada.I wonder who is useing that Gita now???

Our Temple is located @1287 South Ponce De Leon Ave N.E. 30306 in Atlanta near little 5 points if you know that place.Where Braer cliff and Ponce intersect is a park area comming from Down town it will be on your left as soon as you past the light.The temple is the last 3 house of the first block within the park area.

You are very welcome to come to the Sunday Love feast Tommorow the 19th of Aug the program will start at 5pm.Ill b there just ask for me

Better a Sincere sweeper of the Streets than a charlton mediator

Get a tape of Srila Prabhupada's chanting and chant with Srila Prabhupada and try to chant as His Divine Grace is chanting.

Srila Prabhupada has explained that when we start the chanting it is just like entering into a very dusty room.Very Very Dusty from time in memorial this material dust of many lives times has accumulated .

The chanting is the process of cleaning the room ...if we continue in the cleaning process the room will eventually become cleaned.

Meat eating ,illicit sex,intoxication,gambling this id part of the dust.

As you chant you will remove these unwanted habits from your life.

It is a proven fact and many here have walked the path you are now starting .

The only difference between your goodself and and the others on this forum is they have been cleaning the room longer or have not stopped in thier cleaning,and continue to do so.

We all must continue to clean or the room will never be cleaned so keep going ,dont loose heart as the dust flies up in the air and it seems we are not making progress .

There is always great progress made each time we virbate the Holy Name of Krishna which our eternal function.To fly among birds one needs to flap thier wings .

Maharaja embraced me and Satyanaranaya Prabhu and then told us" now we are intamate assoicates ".

When I remenber that embrace I can still feel the warmth of His Divine Graces body.

I knew it was the embrace of Srila Prabhupada,Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Prabhupada and Lord Chaitanya's as well.

Yes always always always Krishna is so very kind to me ,and I am so grateful to Him for His great mercy on me ,taking away the suffering of this life by sending Srila Prabhupada to me .Loveing care for me I feel it is He servering me untill I understand how to serve Him.

Krishna's love is constant like the Air He always is there for me but I am so forgetful of Him I am ashamed of my forgetfullness my pride my lust to enjoy without Him.

Still He sends me the prabhuji to assit me in remenbering Him and they all do in speical ways that are not at once understood .

New Dwarka in those days presented us with the appearance of a shooting star by the name of Ramesvara Prabhu.

When I first came to New Dwarka, he was just another BBT brahmachari and was always seen with his godbrother partner Radhavallabha.

As we took morning prasad, Ramesvara started to give us his talks with inside information on Srila Prabhupadas whereabouts, ISKCON policy, book distribution, always hyping up the prabhus. I mean, the guy had it in the sales department.

I remember one of his statements going something like this:

" Lord Chaitanya is the most merciful and munificent incarnation ever. He has descended just to give us Love of Krishna and Im going to take full advantage."

As he made this statement, he would almost squirm about, twisting his body. Each day he would do another performance that would outdo the last. I use to think someone would ask him to stop, but he was inspiring so he was encouraged.

Ramesvara was on fire for many years. At morning prasad (Meal Times), he would jump in to give a few messages and he had sankirtan(Book Distrubtion) scores right after Tulasi puja.

He would jump up and give us his one-man ishtagoshti for about 20 minutes, always looking like he expected a senior devotee like Nara Narayan to tell him to sit down and shut up, and always doing his body squirm to emphasize points.

He was good and he did get us going. In those days, I enjoyed his pep talks.

Then Ramesvara was put in charge of the BBT; and after a short time, made a sannyasi; then after that, GBC ( govering board of commissions)of New Dwarka; and after that, a Divine Grace with his own Vyasasan -- all within four years. A mouse-cat-dog-tiger-mouse. So sad, so very sad. We also wanted to see him get the full mercy of Lord Chaitanya

Toward the last days Srila Prabhupada was with us, in 1977, Srila Prabhupada would have one GBC stay with him as secretary each month. Ramesvara left and took his turn in about February of 1977.

We all heard about this from Ramesvaras purports after Tulasi Puja.

As soon as Srila Prabhupada became ill, we all knew about it, as Ramesvara told us almost everything he knew in his 20 minutes news flashes from the ISKCON grapevine, which was almost as fast as todays Internet.

When Ramesvara was secretary, he made notes of his time with Srila Prabhupada and would let us hear them in his nectar reports after Tulasi worship.

Srila Prabhupada would order Ramesvara to eat from his plate after only taking a few things and tell him to fill up to his neck.

He told us of how disappointed Srila Prabhupada was with his godbrothers and made a statement which he told us came from Prabhupada about them assisting him in his preaching, "If passing air would save your life, they would not do so."

One day, in one of Ramesvaras after Tulasi puja talks, we heard of the recent pastimes of Jayananda who was close to death and how he was snuck out of a NYC hospital and had been taken to some place in Mexico for treatment and that he may come to New Dwarka. Very soon Jayananda was there and the whole community met him.

Ramesvara was very kind and served Jayananda with all respect and so did we all, understanding Jayananda to be a genuine saint.

Though his body was in the final stages of Leukemia and his skin yellowed by the illness, Jayananda didnt want to just sit and wait for death to overtake him. He cornered Ramesvara and told him it was a disgrace that we had such nice Jagannath Deities in New Dwarka, but still had no Rathayatra.

Jayananda wanted the devotees to drive him around to see what would be a good route for such a festival. They first took him to Venice beach. When he saw the wide concrete walk there, he told them that the Rathayatra had to be held there. Jayananda personally went to all the city officials in his wheelchair and got all the permits for the festival.

He then instructed a crew of devotees how to build the cart and observed them doing so until he was too sick to leave his room.

What is past is past with mistakes we all have made .I want to see Ramesvara get the full mercy of Lord Chaitanya as he so desired.

I wish all the devottees happiness success in thier service to Guru and Gouranga.I would like to see us all in eternal kirtian in Gokula asap with His Divine Grace playing his Brihat Mrdunga.

Im sure Ramevara would be a good asset for Book Distrubtion and Production once again ,as he has helped Sura das secertly on the phone for years now .

Welcome home Ramesvara Prabhu

Now it has been almost 30 years and still the prabhus are still talking this same kind of talk Because some persons maintain great importance to themselves and broadcast it everywhere they have the ability to.

Afew days before Srila Prabhupada left this world he told us ."Of my disclips I see no one to have my quailities .If I look at this or that one some quailties I do see and if I look at group of them certianly some percentage of my quailties are there so I have some hope that this movement can go on."

Srila Prabhupada is the acarya of which no one has His Divine Graces quailties...Srila Prabhupada has given us so many examples of placeing a dog on the throne of a king .That can be done but when there is a bone thrown the dog will jump off.

You can say someone is guru but when they run for sense pleasure were they ever ,just because that sat on the seat of the guru or were voted in.?

Srila Prabhupada told us that looking at a group of his disclips he said there certianly was some percentage of His Divine Graces quailities and it must be a fact as somehow or other threw all kinds of horrible occurances ISKCON is there ,hopefully maturing and if surrendering more as a group they will take on more of the quailties of the Acarya.

I have heard that now, after almost 30 yrs one of the 3 remaining, as he himself refered to himself "a twilight zonal guru" has proclaimed that he is "an acarya with a small letter",even he asked his disclips to call himself acarya---- for so many years.

If we all acceapt whom we are, where we were when we met Srila Prabhupada and his devottees. You can very clearly and sanely say there is only one founder and Acarya of ISKCON Srila Prabhupada and we His Divine Grace's humble servants just need to BE invisbly follow and assit Srila Prabhupada Krishna and His devottees.

As myself as witness Srila Prabhupada only left the GBC to represent him .Srila Prabhupada order was that ISKCON was not to change.

That GBC ....cease to function.... as it had .... as soon as Srila Prabhupada left and has never done so again.

Now what we have is upa GBC and ambitous older prabhus looking for postion.

Now we have so many prabhus wanting thier part of the action,worship,power,and it has gone this way for now almost 30 years like bed bugs they only serve if there is blood to suck.

When you already have 100% purity why does the insitution of ISKCON want to sell 5% purity.?

For Srila Prabhupada's disclips we will only acceapt 100%

I remember reading that jivas who are blades of grass or trees or animals in the Kingdom of God must come to earth to change their rasa to assume a different role in the Kingdom.

The demigods pray to take birth on the Earth planet so they can easlily take up devotion service as the Earth is not such a distraction as the opulence of the heavenlt planets.

We have our eternal relationship with Krishna in the spiritual world of which the Lord is fully aware of .

The liberated devottees of Gokola Vrindaban only throught is for the pleasure and service to Krishna and they are all there prepareing for the Pleasure Pastimes of Shree Shree Radha Krishna is so many wonderful ways .

Sometimes Krishna may ask His devottee to accompany Him when He appears in the material world as His assoicate but once one is fixed in service in Gokula they never loose that service they are eternally fixed .

Srila Prabhupada used to tell us that the rasa mandala is a very big circle.

Meaning by the mercy of Lord Chaitanya ,Guru and Gouranga we may be able to reach that perfection.

There are many parrots and peacock that are able to observe the pastimes of Radha and Krishna chanting thier divine quailties in the spiritual world .

A Gokula devottee has no sperate desire other than the pleasure of Krishna.

In Vaikunta and Goloka there are several animals who have spiritual bodies, but we fall into Material Nature because we wanted to enjoy without Krsna meaning we wanted to be independent of Krsna.

So to have these thoughts means we must have been Spiritual Human Bodies in Vaikunta/Goloka and we made a Decision so now we are here, If we have animal bodies in vaikunta i don't think it is possible to question or leave Krsna and fall into material nature because Animals are just animals, without the capacity of a Spirtual Human Nature in Vaikunta.

So is there a Chance where we could be animals in the Spiritual Universe ?

Animals in the spiritual world are fully Krishna Conscious .They are all devottees even the trees and the blades of grass are all fully Krishna Conscious

Animals in the spiritual world are not dull they are as Krishna Conscious as the cowherd boys.

We do not fall from Krishna leela we fall from the tata that place which is neither the material or spiritual world but where they meet.At this place we decide to enter either the material or spiritual relems