Pankaja_Dasa

I got all the proof i needed, Just saw a DVD. Was very moving, not for the faint hearted. It did have Narayana Maharaja [and BV Puri Maharaja] putting Prabhupada in Samadhi. At 1st I watched "Srila Prabhupada, Your Ever Well Wisher". My Gurudeva sure doesn't like Cameras which is sweet. Also I won't watch this again, once is enough. I want remember Prabhupada in nice way. Haribol!

Prabhupada says a person Editing back to Godhead magazine and a person cleaning floor of temple are on the same level. I was taken aback at this. But makes sense I guess.

Quote- Today we are so embarassed to even utter a doubt as soon as we enter some spiritual organisation. I've seen this sindrom at work especcialy with Sai Baba devotees. === I think that if you have a doubt, and it keeps reocurring. You got to be a little intelligent as well. I hate it also when I say something to somebody, and they keep asking the same question over and over again. But also sometimes you have a really good [lol] doubt. Then it's like that person who cried wolf 3 times, nobody listens. So in that situation better keep your mouth shut, grab hold of Lord Nityananda feet and don' let go. Cause then you have nowhere left to run haribol!

I don't know. I think most follow somebody because they don't know any better. I know many people amonsgt my cousins who follow SaiBaba, they goto Swami Narayana, think Ramarkishna was some great person [but have no clue who he actually is or what teachings he gave]. They follow like blind and gagged sheep. It's actually very sad situation. Unless somebody comes along and tells you 'what is what'. You'd never know. We are like babies. We need Pure Vaishnavas to guide us. Otherwise we are wasting our time. I used to think Sai Baba was an incarnation, thought RamaKrishna was great devotee of Rama and Krishna. The only people these people can fool are Sudras etc. Since everybody in this age is a Sudra, they don't have a hard time doing what they do. Thats why its ESSENTIAL there is Pure devotees to guide us. But I guess people want to be misgudied. Still its Vaishnavas job, to see everything is done right. A person may be great, in material eyes like Sai Baba, Ramakrishna etc, even Gandhi. But what can they actually do for us? If you want half-truth then go for it.!

Sanskrit Text and English Translations of 18 verses. 2nd Edition Gita [edited]. Text & Sound. /images/graemlins/smirk.gif http://www.krsnaconsciousness.org/asitis18.zip [2.39MB] [i may delete from this location later]

Bhagavad-gita 2.3 London, August 4, 1973 ..and the karmis, their highest aim is how to be elevated in the higher planetary system, Svarga-loka, where Lord Indra is there, or Brahma is there. That is karmi's ambition, to go to the heaven. They all, except Vaisnava philosophy, in all other literature, all other scripture, means Christian and Mohammedan, their aim is how to be elevated to the heaven.

Just because somebody is famous for etc etc thing, doesn't mean we should follow them like sheep.

Sorry I read this before, but was thinking about it. Do you have any lectures of Gurudeva? I have downloaded the ones here: http://www.srilapurimaharaja.org/ I wouldn't mind some more. I don't have broadband. But could download upto 50Mbs etc. If you can transfer some onto some place, I could download them. I asked another devotee but he said something about 1GIG! I cannot download 1Gig, by main harddrive is 8GIG I would crash my system into Patala. So far what I have is really nice. Esp the Transcripted lectures is nice to read. Maybe if somebody sent me them I could transcribe a couple? For free I have no money. Hare Krishna!

Not immpossible, Pure Bhakti means serving God, not becoming One with God.

In this Age, nobody believes in anything. Even if you have little faith in Mahaprabhu that's enough. Think of this, how many times did you read Bg.18.66 verse in Gita? Did you surrender? Did you! Tell me!

I actually did a Powerpoint presentation, [which I am about to convert to Flash, cause everybody doesn't have Powerpoint]. It's 18 Keys verses of Gita. It seems fun, but its actually serious. If I ever get it done lol. I will tell you.

www.krishna.com Has I think. I am 28 I cannot understand Gita. 10 years old? You know I think a 10 year old has better capacity to understand, young brains. Or maybe not. When I was 10 I was busy playing marbles [yes] and riding my bike. Those were the days!

..you love this verse: aham brahmasmi. ..I bet you hate this verse: daso smi wink?

This is the actual text from Jaiva-dharma, also on-line, [reommendation section] C H A P T E R 10 Nitya-Dharma & History Nyayaratna: Is the name Krsna anywhere to be found in the Vedas? Vaisnava dasa: Does the word Syama not refer to Krsna? It is said in the Rg Veda (1.22.164.31): apasyam gopam anipadyama nama I saw Sri Krsna who is born in a dynasty of gopas and who is imperishable. There are many statements in the Vedas that refer specifically to Krsna, who appeared as the son of a gopa (cowherd). Nyayaratna: Krsna's name is not clearly mentioned in any of these statements; this is simply your contrived interpretation. Vaisnava dasa: If you study the Vedas carefully, you will see that they have used these types of indirect statements in relation to every topic. The sages of old have explained the meaning of all these statements, and we should have the highest regard for their opinions.

Krishna says in Gita Chapter 2, that his [Arjuna] compassion was based on BODYisum. WHY would Krishna say in Chapter 18 [of all places] Surrender unto me? This is so stupid. Your basically called Krishna a fool who doesn't know what He is talking about /images/graemlins/smile.gif Krishna speaks about His planet, etc in THE Gita! Called Goloka Vrindavava. Now where is this planet located do you know? If you cannot answer these simple questions, you need to look at how high' your knowledge actually is. Krishna body is whole spiritual [as stated by Krishna Himself]. No difference between His body and soul. Absolute. So for this reason there is no 'inside' or outside'. Afterall if God cannot have an Eternal spiritual body. [Even Humans can] then God is useless. This means God must possess both Impersonal and Personal. How straight forward do you want it? Come on. /images/graemlins/tongue.gif

Krishna: Bg.18.66 Gives up all Dharmas. And surrender unto me. [Krishna]. So how can you say final goal is not Krishna? Sachin [The cricketer] plays with a small bat and ball. Your making an extraordinary comparrison. Krishna [God] being beyond cannot be made into. Just like everything is spiritual. God is also. We are also. This is impersonal realization. [brahman]. Ok so now you know you ARE spirit, now what do you do? Do you have spiritual body? Is there a spiritual planet? If you don't agree. Then give me your reasons why somebody cannot have a spiritual body.? I already know what you will say. What you don't seem to realize is everything is Krishna energy. [brahman] and Krishna is Param Brahman. Anyway.. #Why cannot a person have a spiritual body? #Why God cannot have a spiritual body? #Whats the difference between the sky and a small body? [in the spiritual sence] If you can answer the last question I gave your an absolute genious, since your so into Impersonalisum. If not read: www.asitis.com www.gitamrta.org

CB Adi-khanda 17.47 TEXT 47 isvara-purire dekhi' sri-gaurasundara namaskarilena ati kariya adara TRANSLATION On seeing Sri Isvara Puri, Sri Gaurasundara respectfully offered him obeisances. CB Adi-khanda 17.48 TEXT 48 isvara-puri o gauracandrere dekhiya alingana karilena maha-harsa haiya TRANSLATION Isvara Puri was also delighted to see Gauracandra, and he happily embraced Him. CB Adi-khanda 17.49 TEXT 49 donhakara vigraha donhakara prema-jale sincita haila premananda-kutuhale TRANSLATION In the ecstasy of meeting each other, they both became soaked with tears of love. COMMENTARY [of Srila Prabhupada [bhaktisiddhanta Saraswati] As an affectionate, unalloyed, confidential disciple of Madhavendra Puri, who is the original seedling of the desire tree of love of God, Sri Isvara Puripada is attached to prema-bhakti, loving devotional service. By seeing Gaurasundara's display of a devotee's characteristics, the eternally perfect mood of the devotees was enhanced and manifested. Now, for the benefit of people, the meeting between the Supreme Lord and the topmost devotee and mahanta-guru blossomed their flowerlike transformations of ecstatic love that destroyed the contamination in the polluted hearts of persons who were averse to Krsna. Being filled with wonderful ecstasy, Sri Gaurasundara began to describe the glories of the lotus feet of the spiritual master, who is the bestower of transcendental knowledge and who is unlimitedly superior to Gaya-tirtha. CB Adi-khanda 17.50 TEXT 50 prabhu bale,-"gaya-yatra saphala amara yata-ksane dekhilana carana tomara TRANSLATION The Lord said, "My journey to Gaya has become successful the moment I was able to see your lotus feet. COMMENTARY [of Srila Prabhupada [bhaktisiddhanta Saraswati] While wandering throughout the fourteen worlds under the shelter of karma and jnana, by good fortune and piety resulting from devotional service, the living entities receive the opportunity to see the lotus feet of the spiritual master, who is the reservoir of the seed of devotional service. Just by seeing the spiritual master, one's unauthorized, mundane, sensual, argument-based knowledge is checked and the topmost shining glories of devotional service manifest in the heart. This is the fruit of visiting holy places. Srimad Bhaktivinoda Thakura, the crest-jewel of the mahajanas, has written in his Kalyana-kalpa-taru as follows: mana, tumi tirthe sada rata ayodhya, mathura, maya, kasi, kanci, avantiya, dvaravati, ara ache yata "My dear mind, you are always attached to the different places of pilgrimage such as Ayodhya, Mathura, Haridvara, Kasi, Kanci, Avanti, and Dvaraka. tumi caha bhramibare, e sakala bare bare, mukti-labha karibara tare se sakala taba bhrama, nirarthaka parisrama, citta sthira tirthe nahi kare "You want to travel to all these holy places of pilgrimage again and again for the sake of obtaining liberation. But it is clear that your heart is not becoming resolutely fixed by going to all these places; therefore all of your wanderings are simply useless labor. tirtha-phala sadhu-sanga, sadhu-sange antaranga sri-krsna-bhajana manohara yatha sadhu, tatha tirtha, sthira kari' nija citta, sadhu-sanga kara nirantara "The real benefit of visiting any holy place is to achieve the association of the pure-hearted devotees of the Lord living there. Establishing intimate and friendly relations with such great souls, let your heart be captivated by performing the charming worship of Lord Krsna in their association. Wherever the Lord's devotees are living, that place becomes a place of pilgrimage. Therefore you should become fixed by constantly remaining in the company of such devotees. ye tirthe vaisnava nai, se tirthete nahi yai, ki labha hantiya dura-desa yathaya vaisnava-gana, sei stana vrndavana, sei sthane ananda asesa "I never visit any so-called place of pilgrimage that is devoid of the presence of unalloyed devotees, for what benefit is gained by walking to such distant places? Wherever there are devotees, that place is actually Vrndavana. Only there can one find unlimited spiritual pleasure. krsna-bhakti yei sthane, mukti dasi seikhane, salila tathaya mandakini giri tatha govardhana, bhumi tatha vrndavana, avirbhuta apani hladini "Liberation personified is herself the humble maidservant of places that are surcharged with devotion to Krsna. All the water at the place is the celestial Ganges, every hill there is Govardhana, and the very earth is indeed Vrndavana. Only such a place can manifest the eternal spiritual joy which is revealed by the Lord's pleasure-potency. vinoda kahiche bhai, bhramiya ki phala pai, vaisnava-sevana mora vrata "I ask you now, dear brother, what benefit would I get by circumambulating all the holy places of pilgrimage? Personally, my vow is to serve the Vaisnavas with firm resolution and untiring endeavor."

Heard this on MP3, I guess cause I listen to Mp3's when you read the Transcripts they differ in the way for the audience [isn't the same for me]. Jai for technology. I'll add the parts NOT in the Folio Base /images/graemlins/wink.gif in brackets- Bhagavad-gita 1.32-35 London, July 25, 1973 BG 1.32-35__Shortcut To Spiritual Knowledge__25jul73_LO Prabhupada… The soul is covered by two bodies, the external and internal. External means these gross elements-earth, water, air, fire, sky. And internal means the mind, intelligence and ego. They are also material [within that two covering]. Just like our body is covered by shirt and coat, similarly, the soul is encaged in two kinds of bodies. When this gross body is finished, the subtle body, mind, intelligence and ego, they are there. The soul is covered. The gross body is finished. That is called death. But people do not know that there is no death.. -- You really have to listen to these lectures for max benefit. Good job I don't like reading much. Actually I don't like hearing much either. Curious.

CB Adi-khanda 14.104 TEXT 104 nija-pratikrti-deha thui' prthivite calilena prabhu-pase ati alaksite TRANSLATION Laksmi left a replica body on the bank of the Ganges in this world and went invisibly to the side of the Lord. COMMENTARY In the Caitanya-caritamrta (Adi 16.20-21) it is stated: "Because the Lord was engaged in various ways in preaching work in East Bengal, His wife, Laksmidevi, was very unhappy at home in separation from her husband. The snake of separation bit Laksmidevi, and its poison caused her death. Thus she passed to the next world. She went back home, back to Godhead." The replica body and disappearance of Laksmidevi are explained as follows: Sri Laksmipriya-devi is the internal spiritual potency of Gaura-Narayana, the Supreme Personality of Godhead. Maha-Laksmi is described in the Gaura-ganoddesa-dipika (45) as follows: "She who previously appeared as Sri Janaki, Rukmini, and Laksmi has now appeared as Laksmi in the pastimes of Caitanya Mahaprabhu." In the Sanskrit book Caitanya-caritamrta-mahakavya (3.7 and 13) it is stated: "This Laksmi [of Navadvipa] is the incarnation of that Laksmi [of Vaikuntha]," and "Laksmi has personally incarnated in this world." While describing Maha-Laksmi, Krsna's queens, and the gopis of Vraja, Sri Jiva Prabhupada has stated in his Sri Krsna-sandarbha: "In the second (Bhagavata) sandarbha it has been established that the Lord is the Supreme Absolute Truth and that He has two energies. Of the two, the first is related to the Lord as His internal potency and is as worshipable to the Vaisnavas as the Lord Himself. The Supreme Lord's supreme position is due to this svarupa-sakti. The second, Maya, is fit, like the material world, to be neglected by the Vaisnavas; she is the transformation of the Lord's energy. The manifestation of the world is due to this bahiranga-maya-sakti, or the illusory external energy. Of these two potencies, the word laksmi is used to indicate the former, the svarupa-sakti, just as the word bhagavata is used to indicate the person who possesses these two energies. This is also clearly shown in the Bhagavata-sandarbha. In the two cities (Mathura and Dvaraka) this svarupa-sakti is known as sri-mahisi, the queens of Krsna. Since it is clearly stated in the Gopala-tapani Upanisad that in the Lord's unmanifest pastimes Sri Rukmini eternally resides in Mathura, all other queens must also reside there. It is also stated therein that the queens of Krsna are also related to Him as belonging to the category of His svarupa-sakti; therefore in their position as svarupa-sakti they are necessarily of the same position as Laksmi. In this way the queens of Krsna are naturally confirmed as belonging to the Lord's svarupa-sakti. In the Srimad Bhagavatam (10.60.9) it is stated: 'The Lord assumes various forms to enact His pastimes, and He was pleased that the form that the goddess of fortune Rukmini had assumed was just suitable for her to serve as His consort.' The meaning of this verse is very clear. Therefore, since Rukmini assumed a form suitable to serve the Lord, she is certainly on the level of Laksmi. And since Laksmi, who is famous as the goddess of Vaikuntha, is merged within Rukmini, Maha-Laksmi Rukmini has the internal mood of Laksmi and is complete in every respect. Because the spiritual energy, or svarupa-sakti, and the energetic, or saktiman, are completely free of differences (or nondifferent), there cannot be any relationship between them as found between a subject and object of comparison. Therefore between them there is an absence of similarity (as in the difference between an actual object and its shadow or reflection), in other words, they are nondifferent or one. In the Srimad Bhagavatam (10.60.44) Rukmini personally speaks the following words: 'O lotus-eyed one, though You are satisfied within Yourself and thus rarely turn Your attention toward me, please bless me with steady love for Your feet.' (In this statement Rukmini is removing Krsna's doubt or objection.) 'If You say, "I am personally self-satisfied, so how can I have attachment for you?" In reply, I say that Your vision is indifferent, in other words, though You are omnipotent, You look at me, Your svarupa-sakti, and Yourself as inseparable. The purport is that since the svarupa-sakti and the saktiman are inseparable (or nondifferent), or they are constitutionally nondifferent because their only distinction is their constitutional relationship as visaya and asraya, the enjoyer and the enjoyed, therefore even though You are atmarama, Your attachment for Me is proper.'" In the Visnu Purana (1.8.15) it is stated: nityaiva sa jagan-mata visnoh srir anapayini yatha sarva-gato visnus tathaiveyam dvijottamah "O best of brahmanas, Lord Visnu's svarupa-sakti is the eternal mother of the universe; she is never separated from Visnu. Just as Lord Visnu is present everywhere, His svarupa-sakti, Maha-Laksmi is also present everywhere." Also in the Visnu Purana (1.9.143) it is said: devatve deva-deheyam manusyatve ca manusi visnor dehanurupam vai karoty esatmanas tanum "When the Lord appears as a demigod, she [the goddess of fortune] takes the form of a demigoddess, and when He appears as a human being, she takes a humanlike form. Thus she assumes a body corresponding to that accepted by Lord Visnu in order to assist in His pastimes." In his commentary on Brahma-sutra (2.3.10) Sri Madhvacarya quotes the following verse from the Bhagavata-tantra: sakti-saktimatos capi na vibhedah kathancana avibhinnapi svecchadi- bhedair api vibhavyate "There is no actual difference between the energy and the energetic, but sometimes out of His own sweet will they appear different." The Visnu-samhita says: sakti-saktimatos capi na bhedah kascid isyate-"There is certainly no difference between the energy and the energetic." From such scriptural statements we can understand that the energetic Visnu and His related svarupa-sakti are nondifferent. The external illusory energy, or material nature, is the subordinate shadow of this svarupa-sakti Laksmi. In the Srimad Bhagavatam (1.7.23) Arjuna speaks to Krsna as follows: "You have cast away the effects of the material energy by dint of Your spiritual potency [or svarupa-sakti]. You are always situated in eternal bliss and transcendental knowledge." Therefore creation, maintenance, and annihilation, which are transformations of the three modes of material nature-passion, goodness, and ignorance-can never attack Lord Visnu, His related svarupa-sakti, or His opulences such as His abode and associates, because there is no difference between their bodies and souls like there is in the living entities who are controlled by maya and forced to enjoy the fruits of their karma. They are all transcendental, beyond the jurisdiction of maya, untouched by the modes of material nature, eternally pure, and spiritual. Sri Krsna-sandarbha (93) quotes Sri Madhvacaryapada's Bhagavata-tatparya commentary on Srimad Bhagavatam (1.3.1) as follows: "The Tantra-bhagavata states: agrhnad vyasrjac ceti krsna ramadikam tanum pathyate bhagavan iso mudha buddhi vyapeksaya 'The scriptural statements that the Supreme Lord has accepted and given up bodies in His incarnations such as Krsna and Rama are mentioned simply to satisfy the mentality of foolish people.' In the Varaha Purana it is stated: na tasya prakrta murtir mamsa-medo 'sthi-sambhava na yogitvad isvaratvat satya-rupo 'cyuto vibhuh 'The Supreme Lord and His svarupa-sakti do not possess material forms made of flesh, bones, and marrow. His transcendental form, however, is not the result of mystic perfections, for since He is directly the Personality of Godhead, His form is eternal, infallible, and supreme.' In the Maha-Varaha Purana it is stated: 'Everything related to the Supreme Lord Visnu, beginning with His body, is everlasting and eternal, devoid of both material purity and impurity, and never born of matter; in other words, they are not material. They are objects of fully uninterrupted bliss and completely spiritual, they are all full of transcendental qualities and nondifferent from one another. Due to possessing all qualities, they are fully devoid of superiority and inferiority in relationship with each other. There is never a difference between the body and soul of the Supreme Lord Visnu, but when we hear statements that Lord Visnu accepted a body it is like an actor taking on another hand to protect his body in a drama. Although Lord Visnu, who is beyond material perception, appears and disappears, statements like 'His form of Krsna,' 'His form of Rama,' are applicable to Him alone, because He possesses unadulterated spiritual opulences.' In the Kurma Purana it is stated: 'Although the Supreme Lord is neither gigantic nor infinitesimal, He is completely gigantic and infinitesimal. Although the Lord appears contradictory due to possessing spiritual opulences, it is improper to attribute any type of mundane faults on the Supreme Lord. Yet even though apparent contradictory qualities are seen through material perception, one will have to understand that they are inconceivably reconciled in Him.' In the Visnu-dharmottara it is stated: 'Because the Supreme Lord Purusottama possesses all opulences, all transcendental qualities are found in Him. But faults cannot in any way be applied on Him, because He is the supreme object. Some foolish persons conclude that both qualities and faults are received from or attributed by maya. In answer to this, it is stated that since there is no maya or connection with maya in the Absolute Truth, how then can qualities related with maya be present? Therefore the transcendental qualities of the Lord are not received from or attributed by maya; they are born of His opulences. Because He is the faultless (nirasta kuhaka aprakrta-"transcendental dissipater of illusion") controller, learned scholars know Him as the supreme object.'" The doubt raised by foolish materialists who are bewildered by maya that Maha-Laksmi Sri Laksmidevi, who is the svarupa-sakti of Gaura-Narayana, left her body due to being bitten by a snake like a conditioned soul is properly cleared by Srimad Bhagavatam, the crest jewel of scriptures, and the acaryas, who follow Srimad Bhagavatam, in their descriptions of Krsna's disappearance. In the Srimad Bhagavatam (1.14.8) Yudhisthira speaks to Bhimasena as follows: yadatmano 'ngam akridam bhagavan utsisrksati-"Has the time come for the Supreme Personality of Godhead to quit His earthly pastimes?The word angam in this verse means 'earth.' In the Brahma-tarka it is stated: yada tyagadir ucyeta prthivyady-anga-kalpana tada jneya na hi svangam kadacid visnur utsrjet 'When the scriptures use words like "give up" in connection with the disappearance of the Lord it refers to the earth, because Lord Visnu never gives up His own limb.'" (Sri Madhvacarya's Bhagavata-tatparya) "The word akrida refers to the place of pastimes, or in other words, this material world. The word anga means 'His own land,' because 'the earth is His body' and other scriptural statements are evidence of this fact." (Sri Vijayadhvaja) Otherwise: "When will the Supreme Lord desire to give up His own pastimes, or in other words, give up the anga that assists in His pastimes, or in other words, give up the drama of a human (imitating the activities of a human being in the material world)-has that time arrived?" (Sridhara Svamipada) "The word anga refers to the mundane universal form rejected while returning to His own abode." (Krama-sandarbha) In the Srimad Bhagavatam (1.15.34-36) Sri Suta Gosvami speaks to the sages headed by Saunaka as follows: yayaharad bhuvo bharam tam tanum vijahav ajah kantakam kantakeneva dvayam capisituh samam yatha matsyadi-rupani dhatte jahyad yatha natah bhu-bharah ksapito yena jahau tac ca kalevaram yada mukundo bhagavan imam mahim jahau sva-tanva sravaniya-sat-kathah tadahar evapratibuddha-cetasam abhadra-hetuh kalir anvavartata "The supreme unborn, Lord Sri Krsna, caused the members of the Yadu dynasty to relinquish their bodies, and thus He relieved the burden of the world. This action was like picking out a thorn with a thorn, though both are the same to the controller. The Supreme Lord relinquished the body which He manifested to diminish the burden of the earth. Just like a magician, He relinquishes one body to accept different ones, like the fish incarnation and others. When the Personality of Godhead, Lord Krsna, left this earthly planet in His selfsame form." "Not understanding the distinction between the Supreme Lord and the Yadavas (those who were not eternal associates of the Lord but ordinary mortal beings) foolish materialistic persons consider them equal. Sri Suta Gosvami is clearly establishing a distinction between them in these two verses [the first two quoted above]. The word yaya indicates that the Lord diminished the burden of the earth (just as a thorn is taken out with another thorn) through the bodies of the Yadavas (equal to ordinary mortal beings who are bewildered by maya). Since both the bodies of the Yadavas and the bodies of those who were burdening the earth were eligible for being destroyed by the Lord, both are equal, in other words, both are material. "How the Lord accepts and gives up forms (bodies) such as Matsya is being described with the following example: Just as an actor, while remaining in his original form, accepts and gives up another form, similarly the Supreme Lord also gave up that form (visible to mundane eyes) and manifested His original transcendental form. "Since the Lord returned to Vaikuntha with His selfsame body, it is understood that He left this world with that same body." (Sridhara Svamipada) "In this place [in the three Srimad Bhagavatam verses quoted above] the three words tanu, rupa, and kalevara refer to the Lord's two sentiments-His desire to diminish the burden of the earth and His desire to maintain the demigods (they do not refer to His body). Similarly, in other verses of Srimad Bhagavatam (3.20.28, 39, 41, 46, and 47) these words indicate Brahma's sentiments (not body). If one accepts this explanation regarding Lord Brahma, then it is also proper to accept this in regard to the Supreme Lord. Since these sentiments of the Lord are (not His own or actual, but) abhasa-rupa, or indications of His form, therefore the example of a thorn is appropriate (in other words, for a person who wishes to remove a thorn, both the imbedded thorn and the extricating thorn are the same; similarly, the bodies of those who were burdening the earth, or the gigantic universal form, and the bodies of the Yadavas, whose bodies were similar to those of ordinary mortal beings, were the same for the Supreme Lord). An elaborate description in this regard is found in the third (Paramatma) sandarbha. "In incarnations such as Matsya, the words matsyadi-rupa refer to the sentiment of desiring to kill the demons. Just as actors, while remaining in their original dress, accept and give up sentiments as either hero or heroine, similarly, one should know that the same also applies to the Supreme Lord. Otherwise Bhagavad-gita (7.25) states: 'I am covered by Yogamaya and not exposed to anyone and everyone;' Padma Purana, Uttara-khanda states: 'The yogis see Lord Janardana on the strength of their devotional service, He never appears before those on the nondevotional path. No one who is angry or envious can see Him;' and Srimad Bhagavatam states: 'To the wrestlers, Krsna appeared as a thunderbolt.' These conclusive statements confirm that the form manifested by Supreme Lord before the demons is not His original form, but an illusory form. If one sees the original form of the Lord, his envious nature is destroyed. Therefore, in order to diminish the burden of the earth, the Supreme Lord gave up only that form by which He annihilated the demons. He did not appear again in that form. The form of the Lord that is seen through the medium of devotion is nitya-siddha, eternally perfect. That is why the word aja is used. Therefore as an actor or magician, dressed as a fish to kill a crane that eats fish, takes the form of a fish in order to create an impression in the minds of people that he is a fish, and as soon as the crane is killed, he immediately gives up the temporary form of fish; similarly although Lord Krsnacandra is aja (devoid of birth like ordinary living entities), He killed the demons to diminish the burden of the earth with His illusory form manifested before the mundane vision of the materialists. After killing these demons, He (the unborn Lord) also gave up His mundane illusory form. But the previously mentioned statement of Bhagavad-gita (7.25), yogamaya-samavrtah, actually means 'His body is covered by a reflection of the illusory energy just as a snake is covered by its skin.' "In this place, the Lord's pastime of leaving (earth) was performed by His own form (in other words, the word svatanva-"His body" has been used in the third, or instrumental, case), He did not leave earth with His own form (in other words, the third case of the word svatanva does not mean saha, or "with"). This is the proper explanation; for since the word saha is not found in the original verse, if one unnecessarily supplies ellipsis (which would destroy the consistent meaning), then a prominence will be given to the elliptical word. In particular, cases such as nominative, objective, and instrumental are more specific than when secondary words like saha are used to produce a compound word. This grammatical logic is also evidence in this regard." (Krama-sandarbha 106) "In order to solace the sages headed by Saunaka, who were morose after hearing about the pathetic demise of the Yadavas and other ksatriyas, Sri Suta Gosvami recited the confidential conclusions in these two verses. Just as a thorn is taken out with another thorn, in the same way the Lord gave up only the Yadava form by which He diminished the burden of the earth, which is part of His one-quarter opulences. Just as Devadatta gives up his own dress, the Lord separated His Yadava form from His own association. But the Lord did not give up the form with which He eternally enjoys pastimes. Therefore the demigods who had entered among the eternally liberated Yadavas when the Lord appeared in this world were separated from the Yadavas by the Lord and sent to Prabhasa. Later on, by the strength of His illusory energy, the Lord orchestrated their deaths before the eyes of people and thereafter transformed them into demigods by giving them honey to drink and sent them to heaven. This explanation is found in the last part of the Eleventh Canto of Srimad Bhagavatam. The Yadavas who are eternal associates in Krsna's pastimes remained hidden from materialistic people and continued sporting with Krsna in Dvaraka as in their previous unmanifest pastimes. This conclusion should be known from Sri Brhad-bhagavatamrta. 'The bodies of those who were burdening the earth' and 'the bodies of the Yadavas' mean the bodies of the demons who were burdening the earth and the bodies of those demigods who appeared as Yadavas and others-both of whom were equal to the Supreme Lord. But though in the present example of thorns, both are equal, the extricating thorn (by which the imbedded thorn is taken out) is karana-bhuta, or instrumental, and therefore is beneficial and known as 'antaranga, or intimate (and comparatively more relishable), while the karma-bhuta, or active thorn (since it is imbedded, it is to be extricated) is unbeneficial and known as bahiranga, or inimical (and comparatively abominable). "How Lord Krsna, like a magician, created some conception by making a show of giving up His fake body is described in this verse. The purport is that the Supreme Lord accepts (manifests) a form and gives up (unmanifests) that form (in other words, He simply makes a show of giving up His body). But after accepting a form, He does not give it up-from this it should be understood that when the Lord gives up (unmanifests) His form, the same form remains present in the transcendental realm. If one asks, 'How can this be understood?' The answer is stated herein. Just as a magician creates an impression for people that he has given up his own body either by cutting it to pieces, burning it, or falling unconscious, though he actually remains in his body and does not die, similarly, the Supreme Lord accepts bodies like Matsya and also gives them up, in other words, He accepts them and simply makes a show of giving them up. Therefore, just as a magician possessing his own body is a reality, his giving up that body is illusory. Similarly, that the Lord accepts bodies like Matsya is actually true, and that He gives up such bodies is actually illusory. This is the purport. Just as the Lord gives up His other own incidental bodies like Matsya, He simply gave up the mundane form by which He diminished the burden of the earth. Therefore since the entire incident of Lord Krsna's giving up forms is illusory and false, being the Supreme Brahman in the form of a human being, He simply imitates giving up bodies like ordinary human beings. Yet actually He does not do so, for since His form is transcendental (beyond the material elements) there is no possibility of His body being destroyed. As stated in the Mahabharata: 'The five gross material elements are not present in the body of Krsna, the Supersoul.' The Brhat-Visnu Purana also says: 'According to the injunctions of the Vedas and smrtis, one who considers that Krsna's body is made of material elements should be rejected. If one sees such a person, he should take bath with his clothes on.' In the Visnu-sahasra-nama spoken by sage Vaisampayana, it is said: 'Amrta, or immortality, is only a part of Him, for He is the personification of immortality.' Sankaracarya's commentary on this-'He whose body is amrta (deathless)'-indicating a difference between the Lord's body and soul, is not popular. The implication of this verse [bhag. 1.15.34] is that the verb ha of the word jahyat is used to indicate 'giving up,' and the act of giving up is used for the purpose of awarding. In order to nourish the devotees from Vaikuntha, Lord Krsna awarded them His form of Narayana, who was already merged within Him. This will be elaborately described at the end of the Eleventh Canto of Srimad Bhagavatam. "This verse is quoted in order to describe the unreality of Krsna's giving up His body, in other words, to clearly explain its falsity. In this regard one should discuss the commentary of Sridhara Svami and the sandarbha commentary of Sri Jivapada." (Sri Visvanatha) The commentaries on Sri Uddhava's words to Vidura in Srimad Bhagavatam (3.2.11): adayantar adhad yas tu sva-bimbam loka-locanam-"He performed His disappearance by removing His form from the sight of public vision," are as follows. "After exhibiting His own form till this point, the Lord disappeared by covering the eyes of the public, because there was no other worthy object of vision." (Sridhara Svami) "According to the Vedic statement, 'He is the vision of the eyes,' the Lord left the vision of people with His sva-bimbam-His own form. It is also described in the Mahabharata, Mausala-parva: krtva bharavataranam prthivyah prthu-locanah mocayitva tanum krsnah praptah svasthanam uttamam 'To the eyes of people, after diminishing the burden of the earth, Krsna gave up His form and returned to His supreme abode.' In this verse the word mocayitva, or 'having given up,' indicate that He disassociated His form from the activities of diminishing the burden of the earth, in other words, He allowed His form a respite from such engagement. This word is not used to indicate complete freedom from the activities of diminishing the burden of the earth." (Krama-sandarbha) "The word sva-bimbam refers to the sac-cid-ananda form of the Lord and His replica. The word tu corroborates the Vedic statement dve baba brahmano rupe-'The Supreme Brahman has two forms.'" (Sri Vijayadhvaja) "This verse says that the Lord manifested His own form before the eyes of people and again disappeared with that same form. By this statement, persons who advocate that the Supreme Lord gives up His body with adverse objections like 'Lord Krsna left His own body and disappeared' are defeated. Since the adjectives used in the next few verses describe the body of the Lord after He left His human form and went to Yudhisthira's Rajasuya sacrifice in a divine godly form, those who are opposed to the fact that Krsna possesses a human form are also defeated. Moreover, from the statement 'He manifests His own form and disappears with the same form,' it is understood that His pastimes of appearance and disappearance are the result of His supreme will. Therefore those who advocate that the Supreme Lord is under the control of karma (those who consider that the Supreme Lord is under the control of birth and activities such as dying like ordinary living entities) are also defeated." (Sri Visvanatha) In his Bhagavata-tatparya commentary on Srimad Bhagavatam (3.2.13), Sri Madhvacarya quotes the following verse from Skanda Purana: "Alas, how illusioned by the bewilderment of maya are those persons who see the sac-cid-ananda form of Visnu as material!" In the Srimad Bhagavatam (3.4.28-29) Sri Sukadeva Gosvami speaks to Maharaja Pariksit as follows: harir api tatyaja akrtim tryadhisah-"Sri Krsna, the Lord of the three worlds, completed His pastimes on earth," and tyaksyan deham acintayat-"He thought to Himself about disappearing from the face of the earth." These verses are explained as follows. "The word akrti means 'the earth,' because according to the dictionaries the words sarira, akrti, deha, ku, prthvi, and mahi all have similar meanings. The Skanda Purana says that the phrase 'Lord Hari gave up His body' means 'He left the earth.' Since He is the personification of eternal bliss, there cannot be any other meaning. Although the Supreme Lord Visnu is the personification of knowledge, like an actor He exhibits a dead form or dead body resembling Himself in order to bewilder the materialists." (Sri Madhvacarya's Bhagavata-tatparya) "The word akrti means 'the earth,' and the word deha also means 'the earth.' Because the Vedic statement yasya prthivi sariram-'whose body is the earth' is the evidence." (Sri Vijayadhvaja) "The word akrti means 'like a human form.'" (Sridhara Svamipada) "The word nidhana refers to Krsna's eternal abode, which is the greatest wealth. According to the two statements: martya-lokam jihasata-'By the Lord, who desired to quit the mortal world,' in the previous verse 26, and asmal lokad uparate-'When the Lord leaves the vision of this mundane world,' of verse 30, the word akrti refers to the universal form of the Lord. If one is particularly inquisitive regarding this subject, he should study Sri Krsna-sandarbha, verse 93." (Krama-sandarbha) "The purport of this verse is that Lord Hari gave up, a (completely)+krti (activities or pastimes in the material world); in other words, 'He finished.' The word tyaksyan (since the verb tyaj is used to mean 'give') indicates that Lord Krsna desired to give sustenance to the devotees headed by Brahma by sending His plenary portion, Narayana, to Vaikuntha. In his Sandarbhas, Sri Jivapada says that the word deha refers to the earth, which is the Lord's universal form." (Sri Visvanatha) In the Srimad Bhagavatam (11.30.2) Sri Pariksit speaks to Sri Sukadeva as follows: tanum sa katham atyajat-"How could He give up His body?" In Sri Madhvacarya's explanation on this portion of the verse, he says that the Lord made His form completely disappear, because the verb aj in this verse is used to mean "take away." In other words, the Lord took away His form or made it disappear from the earth to heaven (Goloka-dhama). In the Srimad Bhagavatam (11.30.40) Sri Sukadeva speaks to Sri Pariksit as follows: ity adisto bhagavata krsneneccha-saririna-"[The hunter was] thus instructed by the Supreme Lord Krsna, who assumes His transcendental body by His own will." Commentaries on this portion of the verse are as follows. "The Lord made His own form, which is the personification of pure goodness, disappear and simply imitated mortal beings by leaving behind a replica of His form. The act of imitation by the Lord will be clearly seen later on in Srimad Bhagavatam (11.31.8), wherein Sukadeva Gosvami speaks to Pariksit Maharaja as follows: 'Most of the demigods and other higher beings led by Brahma could not see Lord Krsna as He was entering His own abode, since He did not reveal His movements. But some of them did catch sight of Him, and they were extremely amazed.'" (Sridhara Svamipada) "The phrase iccha-saririna means 'by He whose body is manifested simply by His own will,' in other words, His appearance (and disappearance) are manifested by His inconceivable supreme will. There is no need to think of any other reason in this regard." (Krama-sandarbha) "The phrase iccha-saririna means 'by He who out of His own will accepts a transcendental body, which is glorified by everyone.'" (Sri Visvanatha) In the Srimad Bhagavatam (11.30.49) the Supreme Lord speaks to His chariot driver, Daruka, as follows: man-maya-racitam etam vijnayopasamam vraja-"Understanding these pastimes to be a display of My illusory potency, you should remain peaceful." This verse is explained as follows. "In order to solace Daruka, the Lord explains in this verse that His pastime of giving up His body is like a magic act created by the power of His illusory energy. 'Know that My recent activities like the annihilation of the Yadu dynasty and the giving up of My body, which were manifest before the eyes of ordinary people, are like a magic show created by My illusory energy; thus you should remain indifferent.' The word tu [in the first half of the above verse] means 'let ordinary people who are averse to Me be bewildered, but it is not reasonable for you to be bewildered.'" (Krama-sandarbha) Sri Sukadeva Gosvami speaks to Pariksit Maharaja in Srimad Bhagavatam (11.31.6) as follows: lokabhiramam sva-tanum dharana-dhyana-mangalam yoga-dharanayagneyya- dagdhva dhamavisat svakam "Without employing the mystic agneyi meditation to burn up His transcendental body, which is the all-attractive resting place of all the worlds and the object of all contemplation and meditation, Lord Krsna entered into His own abode." Commentaries on this verse are as follows. "The Lord entered His own abode without burning His own body with fire. In the Tantra-bhagavata it is stated: 'All other demigods reach their supreme destination by burning their own bodies through agneyi meditation, but the Supreme Lord Hari, who has various forms headed by Krsna and Nrsimha, is eternally blissful, therefore He enters His abode without burning His body. He destroys the demigods' subtle bodies, and dances in the midst of them at the time of annihilation.'" (Sri Madhvacarya's Bhagavata-tatparya) "The yogis who (possess the quality to) 'die at will' burn their own body with the fire of agneyi yoga meditation and enter other planets, but this is not the case with the Supreme Lord Krsna. He entered His own abode, Vaikuntha, with the same form, without burning it. The reason is that all planets are fully present in His limbs, so if His body, which is the shelter worlds, is burned, the worlds will also be burned. Till now it has been seen that meeting and achieving the fruits of meeting the Lord by the worshipers of the Lord is simply attained through the process of meditation. Had the Supreme Lord burned His form, then adjectives for His form like lokabhiramam-'attractive to all the worlds' would become meaningless, therefore He disappeared without burning His form. This is the appropriate meaning." (Sridhara Svami) "If a word from a statement has another meaning, then according to the logic from the Brahma-sutra (1.1.22), akasas tal-lingat-'the Supreme Brahman 1 is the collective ingredient of all living entities and the five gross material elements," only the principle instructive meaning of the statement is accepted. Therefore the meaning that is derived from the word dagdhva, or "burning," is subdued by words like lokabhiramam, which reveal the meaning adagdhva, or "not burning. 2" The word lokabhiramam indicates that the Lord's form is the shelter of the entire world. From the word loka, the eternal associates and devotees from Maha-Vaikuntha and all animate living entities beginning from those of the atmarama-jnanis, self-satisfied transcendentalists, are indicated. Moreover, the words dharana-dhyana-mangalam indicate that the form of the Lord is the shelter of those engaged in spiritual practices. How can that which is auspicious for persons engaged in meditation be otherwise (abominable due to being destroyed through burning)? By the word sva-tanum, which is a karma-dharaya-samasa, an appositional compound, conformity with the constitutional qualities in the form of the Lord (the blueness of the blue lotus) has been firmly established. "Thereafter, to refute the yogis' misconceptions, it has been said that though it is true that the Lord engaged in agneyi meditation, He nevertheless entered His own abode without burning His form by agneyi meditation. So in order to teach yogis how to give up one's body, the Lord first engaged in agneyi meditation and then made His own form disappear. This is the purport of this verse; no other meaning is suitable. Therefore the statement 'without burning His own form' yields the meaning 'He burned a form that was created by His independent illusory energy.' That is why in the previously cited verse from Srimad Bhagavatam (11.30.40) it has been stated that the Supreme Lord manifests His form out of His supreme will. An object that independently manifests must also independently disappear. Therefore His engaging in agneyi meditation is also illusory. In Krsna-sandarbha, the phrase iccha-sariri, 'who takes a body according to His desire,' has been explained as sveccha-prakasa, 'manifested by His own will,' or 'the body of one's desire,' by which He acts as He likes. This explanation is also possible. In that case it is to be understood that simply by His supreme will He was the instigator of that illusion. This explanation is also proper." (Krama-sandarbha) "The Lord, unlike the yogis who are capable of controlling their death, entered His own abode, Vaikuntha, without burning His own form through agneyi meditation. And the word adagdhva, 'without burning,' indicates that His form is very pleasing to the eyes of people, in other words, it is the object of meditation. Both explanations have been described in this verse." (Sridhara Svamipada) "Some scholars interpret the phrase dharana-dhyana-mangala to mean 'the Lord burned His own form and emerged from that fire with a more effulgent form like that of the pure Jambu River and then entered His own abode.' The purport is that the Lord showed those who are doubtful and opposed to the concept that His form is spiritual that His form is unburnable by the fire of His own form." (Sri Visvanatha) Commentaries on Sri Sukadeva's statement to Sri Pariksit in Srimad Bhagavatam (11.31.11-13) are as follows: "You should understand that the appearance and disappearance manifested among mortal beings by the Supreme Lord, Sri Krsna, the cause of all causes, are shows enacted by His illusory energy, just like the performance of an actor. After He creates this universe, He enters into it as the Supersoul, and after detaching Himself from the pastimes of this material world, He winds it up. By the influence of His own transcendental glory, the Lord remains situated in His eternal unmanifested kingdom. Apart from this, one need not accept another meaning, because various opulences have been exhibited in His present incarnation. If one asks, 'If the Lord was able to protect Himself then why didn't He remain within His own form for even for a moment longer?' In answer to this, it is said: Though the Lord is unlimitedly powerful and the only cause of creation, maintenance, and destruction of innumerable universes, thinking that His mundane mortal body would not be effective any more and exhibiting the supreme destination of the self-realized souls, He did not wish to keep His form after the killing of the mortal Yadavas, rather He took it to His own abode. Otherwise, the above-mentioned self-realized souls would disregard achieving the supreme destination and endeavor to remain in this material world by achieving yogic perfections-so that this calamity may not happen, in other words, to check this, the Lord enacts His disappearance pastimes." (Sridhara Svamipada) "The phrase tanu-bhrj-jananapyayeha [in Bhag. 11.31.11] means 'resembling the birth and death of embodied living beings.' The Vedas state: 'Visnu, the Lord of all living entities, wanders within the universe. Though He does not take birth like conditioned souls, He appears in various forms.' In the Brahma Purana it is said: 'In order to bewilder foolish people by His illusory energy, Lord Visnu manifests Himself as a born living entity though unborn and as a dead living entity though deathless.' Elsewhere it is stated: 'Lord Purusottama exhibits His humanlike endeavors in order to bewilder the people of this world. Moreover, though the Supreme Lord Visnu does not personally accept a material body, in order to bewilder sinful people He manifests Himself like a mortal being and through His illusory energy He creates a dead body for display. Actually the Supersoul, Lord Hari, is immortal, so how can there be a dead body?' It is stated in the Brahmanda Purana: 'Various Vedic statements that apparently describe the nondifference of the living entities from the Supreme Lord, Lord Visnu's accepting and giving up bodies like an ordinary living entity, His miseries, the cutting and piercing of His body by the arrows of His enemies, His defeat, and His dependence, in other words, His remaining under the control of others, have all been stated to bewilder the sinful demons. First Rukmini, the daughter of Bhismaka, and then Satyabhama disappeared in the forest. Both of them possess pure spiritual bodies, so they did not give up their bodies like ordinary living entities.'" (Sri Madhvacarya Bhagavata-tatparya) "The Yadavas were not products of this material world, so what to speak of Rama and Krsna.-In order to establish this conclusion, it is being said that the activities of appearance and disappearance by the Yadavas, who are eternal associates of the Lord and possess pure forms equal to that of the Lord, are also illusory like those of Krsna. Such activities are exactly like those of a magician who can kill or burn his or others' bodies and then display them alive again. The inconceivable omnipotent Lord is the cause of universal creation-for Him such an exhibition of prowess is not very wonderful. In this way: sitayaradhito vahnis chaya-sitam ajijanat tam jahara dasa-grivah sita vahni-puram gata pariksa-samaye vahnim chaya-sita vivesa sa vahnih sitam samaniya tat-purastad aninayat 'When he was petitioned by mother Sita, the fire-god, Agni, brought forth an illusory form of Sita, and Ravana, who had ten heads, kidnapped the false Sita. The original Sita then went to the abode of the fire-god. When Lord Ramacandra tested the body of Sita, it was the false, illusory Sita that entered the fire. At that time the fire-god brought the original Sita from his abode and delivered her to Lord Ramacandra.' According to this statement from the Brhad-agni Purana, materialists have misinterpreted the example of the illusory or false pastimes of Ravana kidnapping Sita, the transcendental goddess of fortune, and the foolish persons' misconceptions about personalities like Sri Sankarsana. "What to speak of the Yadavas who possess transcendental spiritual bodies, various other persons who are maintained by Krsna are also not subjected to death. Was Krsna unable to protect His own associates, the Yadavas? Therefore the Yadavas' activities (such as giving up their bodies) are not real pastimes, rather it is most reasonable to accept that they returned to Goloka in their same bodies. "If one argues that the Yadavas went back to Godhead in their own bodies, but since the Lord was present, they had no distress of separation from Him; but if the Lord was able to protect His own men, why didn't He have other associates advent like the Yadavas and remain for some time with them in this world for the benefit of the living entities? The conclusive answer stated in this verse is that both the Lord and the Yadavas have uninterrupted affection for each other. Although the Lord is unlimitedly powerful, after causing the disappearance of the Yadavas, He thought, 'What is the necessity for Me to remain in this world without the Yadavas?' With this in mind, the Lord disclosed that His destination was the same as that attained by the Yadavas, who had returned to the Lord's abode, and thus He no longer wished to keep His form in this world for even a moment, so He took it to His own abode." (Krama-sandarbha) "Sri Sukadeva solaces Pariksit Maharaja, who was distressed on hearing about the disappearance of the Lord and His associates from the eyes of the world, by describing the conclusive truths regarding the Lord's pastimes. One should know that the Lord's activities of birth and death like ordinary embodied souls are simply acts of illusion. They are neither factual nor real. Both the birth and death of living entities who possess bodies made of semen and blood are full of happiness and distress, but both the appearance and disappearance of the Supreme Lord, who possesses a spiritual body, are completely full of spiritual happiness. In the Brahmanda Purana it is stated: 'The form of Lord Hari is devoid of mundane abomination and delight, but words like "acceptance" and "rejection," which are found in His activities, are to be understood as His appearance and disappearance.' They are just like the exhibition of a magician, who (while remaining in his living state) manifests his and others' false birth and death. Due to the curse of the sages, the Lord first personally created the great disturbance, the interfamily quarrel, and the interfamily fighting with weapons, and He thereafter joined the mortal Yadavas, took up a cane stalk weapon, and, after sporting with them for some time, killed them, all the while remaining aloof on the strength of His illusory energy. "Although the Lord is supremely opulent and unlimitedly powerful, after sending the demigods who had merged among the Yadavas back to heaven, He did not personally desire to keep His body or His associate Yadavas' bodies in this world; rather, He desired to make them disappear, because there was no need for them to remain in this world. In other words, the Lord had no need of the material world, but He had need of His own abode, Goloka. Since the Lord appeared in this world due to the prayers of Brahma and the other demigods of heaven, again, simply by their prayers, the Lord exhibited to Brahma and the other demigods of heaven His return to Vaikuntha. This is clearly being explained in this verse. If one gives a contrary explanation to this, then it would contradict Uddhava's statement in the Srimad Bhagavatam (3.2.11), and it will be unacceptable to the pure devotees. That such an explanation is demoniac and unacceptable to the devotees was personally declared by Uddhava in the previous verse of Srimad Bhagavatam (3.2.10) as follows: 'Being bewildered by the illusory energy of the Lord, those who were mortal Yadavas and those who were averse and inimical to the Lord, like Sisupala, criticized the Lord. My heart is surrendered to Krsna, so let my intelligence never be bewildered by such criticism. In other words, those whose intelligence is bewildered by such criticism are certainly fooled by maya.'" (Sri Visvanatha) In his commentary on Mahabharata (2.79-83) Sri Madhvacarya has stated: "Nowhere is it mentioned that Lord Visnu takes birth like an ordinary living entity, so where is the question of His death? He is not to be killed or bewildered by anyone. Where is the question of misery for the independent Supreme Lord, who is full of eternal bliss? Although the Supreme Lord Hari has mastery over the entire universe, He nevertheless exhibits Himself as weak as an ordinary farmer in the course of His eternal pastimes. But even though in the course of His pastimes He sometimes forgets His own identity, He sometimes searches for Sita while suffering the distress of separation like a hen-pecked husband, and sometimes He is bound by the ropes of Indrajit, it should be known that these pastimes are simply meant for bewildering the demons. His pastimes like being bewildered by the arrows of the demons, wiping the blood from His open wound, inquiring from others like an ignorant person, and giving up His body and going to heaven are performed like the drama of an actor simply to bewilder the demons. The devotees, however, know these pastimes as illusory, in other words, they know that these pastimes are simply false deceit. The appearance and disappearance pastimes of Lord Sri Hari are not like those of ordinary embodied living entities, rather they are all completely faultless. Apart from this, whatever reverses we see bewilder even simple, ignorant, pious persons and what to speak of the miscreants. It is to be understood that these pastimes of the Supersoul, Lord Hari, are to award fruits to the living entities according to their respective mentalities." From the same commentary on Mahabharata (32.33-34) it is stated: "Although the Supreme Lord and master of all living entities, Acyuta, is sac-cid-ananda-vigraha, in His disappearance pastimes of incarnations in which He does not exhibit illusion or maya during His appearance, He imitates an ordinary living entity giving up his body in order to bewilder the demons and send them to the darkest regions of hell by creating a material body that resembles a rejected dead body and, after leaving it lying on the ground, He personally goes to Vaikuntha." One should refer to verses 18-36 of the Sudhi-saurabha section of the Yukti-mallika, which was written by the lionlike logician, Sri Vadaraja Svami, who is celebrated as the second Madhvacarya in the Sri Madhva-sampradaya. In verses 37-39 it is said: "If one sees sandalwood with his eyes, then knowledge about the fragrance of that sandalwood is obtained. In this process the eyes take the help of the nose, otherwise if one had not previously smelled the fragrance of sandalwood he could not obtain knowledge of its fragrance by seeing it with his eyes. Similarly, other evidence takes help from the Vedas to establish the meaning of knowledge acquired by hearing. Because the evidence of the Vedas is prominent in realization of transcendental subject matters, other evidence like pratyaksa (direct perception) and anumana (hypothesis), which are dependent on the Vedas, are unable to serve the purpose of understanding transcendental subject matters due to their conflicting nature. Therefore in considering the Absolute Truth, the faulty vision of ignorant people cannot be considered evidence." Apart from all this, one should carefully discuss Bhagavad-gita, Chapter 4, verses 6, 9, and 14, Chapter 7, verses 6-7 and 24-25, Chapter 9, verses 8-9 and 11-13, Chapter 10, verses 3 and 8, and Chapter 16, verses 19 and 20. The word ati-alaksite is explained in the Srimad Bhagavatam (11.31.8-9), wherein Sri Sukadeva speaks to Sri Pariksit as follows: "Most of the demigods and other higher beings led by Brahma could not see Lord Krsna as He was entering His own abode, since He did not reveal His movements. But some of them did catch sight of Him, and they were extremely amazed. Just as ordinary men cannot ascertain the path of a lightning bolt as it leaves a cloud, the demigods could not trace out the movements of Lord Krsna as He returned to His abode. [Only His associates could see.]"

I've been thinking about this thread, I must say that when I saw the quote from Muladari Prabhuji, that I may have come to a wrong conclusion [which in actuality benefited me greatly since I was been absorbed in Gaura-Lila for a while now]. Also Bhakti Raksaka Maharaja is saying 'to Forget about Jesus' to a Priest of all people! Now we have to consider these statements. I cannot believe nobody mentioned why? After reviewing this [while reading Chaitanya Bhagavata] and hearing about Praladha Maharaja, the only reason for this would be 'forget about what they taught you'. We cannot possibly understand the motive of a pure devotee for saying such things, and devotees never contradict themselves [as Krishna doesn't]. So that's the only conclusion. I personally feel right now Christianity is dead. They have nobody making any laws of Vaidhi-Bhakti.[EVEN the Pope eats Veal [baby cows]. The only real Christians are Vaishnavas. So this Priest must have been very deluded from the start. Also in this Age we are to think of Gauranga more than any other age [yeah right any age, think of Gauranga always no harm in it!]. Because nobody is more merciful [Nobody means nobody]. Then also think of Jesus Christ. Normally Christians only think of Jesus, and not 'God'. They don't even know who God is. Lets consider all these points.

These points should be made into some kind of a leaflet, check them out- Letter to: Hayagriva -- Calcutta 26 September, 1970 70-09-26 My Dear Hayagriva, Please accept my blessings. I have received your letter of Sept. 11, 1970, and have noted the contents. It is nice that you are personally managing New Vrindaban now, and I am sure that everything is progressing nicely just to the standard. So for the present just continue in this way. Krishna will give you all intelligence how to do it. Regarding Mr.Ginsberg's article, yes, it may appear if it is followed by an adequate refutation. But kindly make the refutation very strong; then that will be nice. I am adding some points that you may elaborate on. 1) As you state, Krishna is identical with His name. That means that His name has the same qualities as Himself, i.e. sat, chit, ananda. No mundane vibration is eternal, otherwise why does it grow tiresome and have to be changed every other week. Nor do mundane songs produce real knowledge or bliss unending. Also, this transcendental vibration purifies one. Anyone can see practically how our students are becoming purified, but the chanters of material songs are not. 2) Ginsberg says these words are physical in a frankly physical universe. But this is not true, for actually everything is spiritual. It is only under certain conditions, viz. forgetfulness of Krishna that this internal or spiritual energy of Krishna becomes material. Therefore when we hear the name Krishna, which is identical with Krishna, we must remember, and in that way everything is purified. 3) Tennyson may have felt something when he chanted Tennyson, but does anyone else? Does Mr. Ginsberg want to chant Tennyson, Tennyson? But everyone enjoys chanting Krishna. That means there is something different about His name. He is the center of everyone and everything. 4) Krishna explains in the 7th Chapter of B.G. that there are four classes of men who approach Him. There are millions of men in distress, or searching for money, or curious, or searching for knowledge, but only a few come to Krishna, and all of them are mahatma--simply because they have come to the right place, Krishna. That is not by chance, but due to their past pious deeds. No one can approach Krishna without being purified, so this is the process. But no matter what the original motive, if one actually comes to Krishna he is mahatma. S.B. confirms it that if someone follows all the rules and regulations very nicely but doesn't come to Krishna it is useless, and similarly if someone comes to Krishna, even if he doesn't follow very nicely, he is perfect. Also, B.G. 7/19 says that the wise man after many births comes to know that Krishna is everything. So Krishna is central. So we may begin our chanting with some motive, but that is not the final stage. Love of Krishna is final, and how can we develop that unless we are chanting and thinking of Krishna? 5) Some analyst or priest or lover may widen the consciousness from this to that, but only Krishna is without limit and therefore can widen the consciousness infinitely. That is the difference. The material world has varieties of this and that, this thing more than that thing, but only Krishna is without limit, and if we desire ananda, bliss unending, we must go to Krishna. 6) Hare Krishna cannot be compared to any sexual cry because the sexual cry is a call for some partner to come satisfy the caller's desire. That means it is sense gratification. When we chant H.K. we are calling to Krishna to please let us serve You. So on the spiritual platform it is the service that is desired, but on the material it is sense gratification that is sought. The rest of the points I think you can cover nicely. Hope this meets you in good health. Your ever well-wisher, A. C. Bhaktivedanta Swami

I don't have a clue what those verses mean. All I see in those is the name of Sri Radhe. I am discontining this thread. I feel contaminated by your presence.

It says we are meant to see Siksa and Diksya Guru as same. Everybody here knows I am trying to be disicple of BV Puri Maharaja. I just got confuced today. How do I see Acharya as Acaharya without lessoning my Diksya Guru? We are know right now our Acharya is Srila Prabhupada [disicple of Bhaktisiddhanta Saraswati]. Even in Gaudiya Matha this is thought of. You should have seen the amount of Prabhupada books in Gaur Govinda Temple in Birmingham, anyway back to the point. I would very much like to hear from Babhu, Yashodananadana, and others.

Your on fire

Well following what your saying we can see your getting a tinge of Mayavadi by following Baps. Everything is not one. Your very deluded.