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Who is Sri Guru?!

Pankaja_Dasa posted a topic in Spiritual Discussions

<HTML><HEAD><TITLE>Sri Guru Tattva</TITLE> <CENTER>SRI GURU TATTVA </CENTER> We come to know the necessity of acceptance of Sad Guru from following scriptures:- <CENTER>tad-vynanartham sa gurum evabhigacchet samit panih srotriyam brahma-nistham </CENTER>(Mundaka Upanisad 1/2/12) <CENTER> </CENTER>To learn the science of transcendental devotional service to the Supreme Personality of Godhead, a person should approach, with firewood in hands, a self-realised spiritual master who is expert in vedic literatures and fixed in devotional service directly to the Lord. <CENTER>acaryavan puruso veda </CENTER>(Chandogya Upanisad - 6/14/2) "A person who takes shelter, with devotion, of a bonafide spiritual master will know the science of the Absolute Truth perfectly". <CENTER>utisthata jagrata prdpya varan nibodhata ksurasya dhara nisita duratyaya durgama pathas tat kavayo vadanti </CENTER>(Kathopanisad - 1/3/14) Thus addresseth the Vedapurusha regarding the pious ones (sadhus) :- Oh Sadhus ! be relieved of the thoughts regarding various earthly possessions. Desert the unwanted elements, get spirited in the real self and try to acquire knowledge regarding the Godhead by obtaining the compassion of the blessed ones. This mortal world is like the sharp edge of a blade, and cause of innumerable sorrows. It is beyond easy means to cross this mortal world without acquiring knowledge regarding the Godhead. The divine seers pronounce that the world reliever Brahma is attained with great efforts. There is no other way to swim accross the sea of mortal world except persuing the Godhead at the lotus feet of Srila Gurudev. <CENTER>yasya deve para bhaktir yatha-deve tatha gurau tasyaite kathita hy arthah prakasante mahatmanah </CENTER>(Swetaswatara Upanisad - 6/23) Only unto those great souls who have implicit faith in both the Lord and the spiritual master are all the imports of Vedic knowledge automatically revealed. <CENTER>nayam atma pravacanena labhyo na medhaya na bahuna srutena yam evaisa vrnute tena labhyas tasyaisa atma vivrnute tanum svam </CENTER>(Kathopanisad - 1/2/23) The Supreme Lord is not attained by reasonings or by vast intelligence, nor even by much hearing. He is attained only by one whom he Himself chooses. To such a person He manifests His own form. <CENTER>janan maranadi samsaranala-santapta dipta kira jalarasim iva upahara panih srotriyain brahma nistham gurum upasrtya tamanusarati </CENTER>(Vedanta Sara) As a man goes to water when his head becomes very hot, so a disciple who is tortured by the fire of birth and death in the mortal world approaches a Spiritual Master who is well versed in the conclusions of Vedic literature and strictly follows his instructions and becomes subservient to him <CENTER> jiva nitya krishna das taha bhuli gela aei doshe maya tare galay bandhila </CENTER>(Chaitanya Charitamrita madhya 22/24) <CENTER> krsna bhuli'sei jiva anadi-bahirmukha ataeva maya tare deya samsara-duhkha </CENTER>(Chaitanyacharitamrita, madhya - 20/117) <CENTER>krsna-bahirmukha haya bhoga vancha kare nikata-stha Maya tare japatiya dhare pisachi paile jena matichanna hay mayagrasta jiber hae se bhaba uday ami nitya krishna dasa-ei katha bhule mayar nafar haya china dina bule kabhu raja, kabhu praja, kabhu bipra sudra kabhu sukhi, kabhu dukhi, kabhu kita khyudra kabhu swarge, kabhu martye, nanake ba kabhu kabhu deva, kabhu daitya, kabhu dasa prabhu (Prema Bibarta) </CENTER> When the Jiva forgets that he is ever servant to Lord Sri Krishna & desires of earthly possessions he is caught by Maya for his fault. Forgetting Sri Krisna, the living entity has been attracted by the external features from time immemorial. Hence the illusory energy (Maya) punishes him with worldly miseries. Turning away his face from Krisna as he desires earthly enjoyments, he is immediately struck down by illusory energy (Maya) of Lord. The condition of a living entity (jiba) captured by illusory energy is the same as one who lost his head when confronted with a she demon. He forgets that he is subsurvient to Lord Krisna and moves about as a servant of illusory energy forever. <CENTER> brahmanda bhramite kona bhagyavan jiva guru-krsna prasade paya bhakti-lata-bija tate krishna bhaje kare gurur seban mayajala chhute pay shrikrishnacharan (Chaitanyacharitamrita, Madhya - 19/151 & 22/25) </CENTER> Thus wandering through the entire universe, some fortunate soul gets the seed of bhaktilata (creeper) by the grace of Spiritual master and Sri Krishna. Then he worships Krishna under the guidance of Guru and frees himself from the illusory energy. <CENTER>mukam karoti vacalam pangum langhayate girim yat-krpa tam aham vande sri gurum dina tarinam </CENTER>(Bhabartha Dipika) I offer my respectful obeisances to the Spiritual Master whose grace turns a dumb into an eloquent speaker and enables the lame to cross mountains. <CENTER>Rareness of a qualified Guru and disciple:- </CENTER> <CENTER>shravanayapi bahuvir jo na lavyah shrunvantopi bahavo jam na biduh ascharjyosya bakta kushalosya labdha ascharyo jnata kushalanusistah </CENTER>(Kathopanisad - 1/2/7) That Atma (Paramatma) is neither audible nor attainable by many, because an experienced adviser versed in vedic scriptures and a realised person are rare. He only can make the disciple efficient. Some efficient souls come to know Him after being advised by experienced Acharya (Guru). <CENTER>tasmad gurum prapadyeta jijnasuh sreya uttamam sabde pare ca nisnatam brahmany upasamasrayam </CENTER>(Srimad Bhagabat - 11/3/21) <CENTER> </CENTER>One who is inquisitive about his duties and otherwise should take shelter under Sadguru in order to know the best of principles. One who is an exponent of Sabdabrahma i.e the Vedic scriptures and who has acquired the experience of Parambrahma and beyond any scruples is the Sadguru. <CENTER>kripasindhu susampurnah sarva satvopakarakah nisprhah sarvatah siddhah sarva vidya visaradah sarva samsaya sancchetta 'nalaso gurur ahrtah </CENTER>(Haribhakti bilasa - 1/45/46) Such person is called Guru who is an ocean of mercy, who feels pain on seeing the unhappiness of others, who is always satisfied and who works for the welfare of others, who does not desire sense gratification, who is perfect in all respects, who is expert in all scriptural knowledge, who removes the doubts of his followers and who is not lazy. (always busy in serving the Lord). <CENTER>vaco vegam manasah krodha-vegam jihva-vegam udaropastha-vegam etan vegan yo visaheta dhirah sarvam apimarh prthivim sa sisyat </CENTER>(Upadeshamrita - 1st sloka) A sober person who can tolerate the urge to speak, the mind's demands, the actions of anger and the urges of the tongue, belly and genitals is qualified to make disciples all over the world. <CENTER>sat-karma-nipuno vipro mantra-tantra-visaradah avaisnavo gurur na syad vaisnavah sva-paco guruh </CENTER>(Sri Haribhaktibilasa) Even if a brahmana is very learned in Vedic scripture and knows the six occupational duties of brahmana, he cannot become a guru or spiritual master unless he is a devotee of the Supreme Personality of Godhead. However, if one is born in a low caste family, but is a pure devotee of the Lord, he can become a spiritual master. <CENTER>Vaisnab is the Guru of all caste and creed </CENTER> <CENTER>bipra khsyatriya baishyascha gurabah sudrajanmanam sudrasaha gurabastesham trayanam bhagabatpriyah </CENTER>(Padma Purana) Those born as brahmin, khsyatriya and baishya may become guru of those born as shudras, this is the general principle. But those dear to the lord even if born as shudra can become the Guru of those three castes i.e. brahmin, kshyatriya and baishya. <CENTER>kiba bipra, kiba nydsi sudra kene nay jei krishna tatwa betta sei guru hay </CENTER>(Chaitanya Charitamrita - Madhya - 8/127) Whether one is a brahmana, a sannyasi or a shudra regardless of what he is - he can become a spiritual master if he knows the science of Krsna. <CENTER>kiva varni kivasrami kiwi varnasramahina krsna tattva vetta yei, sei acarya pravina asal katha chadi bhai varne ye kare adara asad guru kari tara vinasta purvapara </CENTER>(Prema Bibarta) Any person can become a genuine acarya, regardless of his position in varnasrama-dharma, whether born as a sudra or even an outcaste, if he truthfully speaks the science of Krsna. If he gives up a true spiritual master and chooses another spiritual master based on caste, he may in fact obtain an unqualified spiritual master and destroy even his previously earned spiritual advancement. <CENTER>Who is Acharya ? </CENTER> <CENTER>upaniya to jah sishyam bedamadhyapayed dvirja sankalpam sarahasyancha tamacharjyam prachakhyate </CENTER>(Manu Samhita - 2/140) A bramhin who gives upanayan to his disciple and teaches him Upanishad with the entire Vedas, is pronounced as Acharya (guru) by all the munis (saints). <CENTER>acinoti yah sastrartham acare sthapayatya 'pi svayam acarati yasmad aicaryas tena kirtitah </CENTER>(Vayu Purana) <CENTER> </CENTER>One who understands the essence of Vedic literatures, and who teaches this standard to others by his words and his personal example, is accepted as an acarya. <CENTER>yadyadacarati sresthastattadevetaro janah sa yatpramanarh kurute lokastadanuvartate </CENTER>(Bhagabad Gita - 3/21) For whatever a great man does, that very thing other men also do; whatever standard he sets up, the generality of men follow the same. <CENTER>A guru teaches by word and example - </CENTER> <CENTER>apane acare keha, na kare pracara pracara karena keha, na karena acara </CENTER>Some behave very well but do not preach the science of Krshna, whereas others preach but do not behave properly. (Caitanya-caritamrta, Antya 4.102) <CENTER>'acara', 'pracdra',-- namera karaha 'dui' karya tumi-- sarva-guru, tumi jagatera arya </CENTER>(Chaitanya Charitamrita, Antya - 4/103) You simultaneously perform both duties in relation to the holy name by your personal behavior and by your preaching. Therefore you are the spiritual master of the entire world, for you are the most advanced devotee in the world. (Caitanya-caritamrta Antya 4.103) <CENTER>apani achari bhakti sikhamu sabare </CENTER>(Chaitanyacharitamrita, Adi - 3/20) I will teach bhakti to everybody by following all the principles myself. <CENTER>apani no kaile dharma sikhdna na jay </CENTER>(Chaitanyacharitamkrita, Adi - 3/21) Unless one observes the principles of religioun himself it is not possible to teach others. <CENTER>acaryam mam vyaniyan navamanyeta karhicit na martya-buddhyasuyeta sarva-deva-mayo guruh </CENTER>(Srimad Bhagabat - 11/17/27) Lord Sri Krishna told Uddhaba -- One should know the acarya as Myself and never disrespect him in any way. One should not envy him, thinking him an ordinary man, for he is the representative of all the demigods. <CENTER>vande gurun isa-bhaktan isam isavatarakan tat prakasamas ca tac-chaktih krsna-caitanya-samjnakam </CENTER>(Chaitanyacharitamrita, Adi - 1/32) I offer my respectful obeisances unto the spiritual master, the devotees of the Lord, the Lord's incarnations, His plenary portions, His energies, and the primeval Lord Himself, Sri Krsna Chaitanya. <CENTER>krisna gurudwaya bhakta abatara prakasha shakti ei chhay rupe karena bilasha </CENTER>(Chaitanyacharitamrita, Adi - 1/342) Krsna manifests in six forms, His own self, the two types of gurus, (Sikhsya and Dikhsya) Avatara, Prakasha and Shakti. <CENTER> Dikhsya Guru - jadyapi amara guru chaitanyera das tathapi janiye ami tanhara prakasha </CENTER> (Chaitanyacharitamrita, Adi - 1/44) Even if my guru is the servant of Lord Chaitanya I recognise him as His manifestation. <CENTER>Sikhya Guru - </CENTER> <CENTER>guru krsna-rupa hana sastrera pramane guru-rupe krsna krpa karena bhakta-gane sikhsya guruke ta'jani krishner swarup antaryami bhaktashrestha - aei dui rupa </CENTER>(Chaitanyacharitamrita; Adi 1-45, 47) According to Shashtras guru is the manifestation of Sri Krishna. Krishna blesses the devotees in the form of Guru. Sikhsyaguru is the embodiment of Sri Krishna. One who is all-knowing and one who is the best of devotees these are the two forms of sikhya guru. <CENTER> jibe sakhsyat nahi tate guru chaitya rupe sikhsya guru hay krishna mahanta swarupe </CENTER>(Chaitanyacharitamrita, Adi - 1/58) Without manifesting Him outside, Krishna dwells inside the mind as chaitya guru, and again he becomes the teacher in the form of guru (Mahanta) <CENTER>naivopayanty apacitim kavayas tavesa brahmayusapi krtam rddha-mudah smarantah yo `ntar bahis tanu-bhrtam asubham vidhunvann acarya-caittya-vapusa sva-gatim vyanakti </CENTER>(Srimad Bhagabat - 11/29/6) Uddhaba speaks to Lord Krishna - Oh Lord You destroy all the evils of the mortal souls by unimaginable grace and in order to establish Yourself You exist as Acharya (Guru) externally and as 'Antaryami' in the mind. The learned ones can not fathom the depth of such pastimes of yours even if they get the years of life that Brahma has. <CENTER>Grace of guru can be achieved by mercy of Krisna- </CENTER> <CENTER>krsna yadi krpa kare kona bhagyavane guru-antaryami-rupe sikhaya apane </CENTER>(Chaitanyacharitamrita, Madhya - 22/47) <CENTER> </CENTER>If Krishna blesses some fortunate person, He gives lessons as Guru without and Supersoul within. <CENTER>Guru is the giver of Divine knowledge- </CENTER> <CENTER>om ajnana-timirandhasya jnananjana-salakaya caksur unmilitam yena tasmai sri-gurave namah </CENTER> I offer my respectful obeisances unto my spiritual master, who has opened my eyes, which were blinded by the darkness of ignorance, with the torchlight of knowledge. <CENTER>na dharmam na dharmam shrutigana niruktam kila kuru braje radhakrishna-prachura paricharyamiha tanu sachisunum nandiswar-patisutatve gurubaram mukunda presthatve smara paramajasram nanu manah </CENTER>(Mana sikhya - 2) Oh ! mind, don't persue the dharma which has been described in the Vedas as Punya (good deeds), and Adharma which has been described as sin (papa). You only worship Sri Radha Krishna in 'Braja', and Gourasundar the son of Sachi knowing him as the manifestations of Sri Krishna the son of Nanda and Srila Gurudev as near and dear to Mukunda. <CENTER>saksad-dharitvena samasta-sastrair uktas tatha bhavyata eva sadbhih kintu prabhor yah priya eva tasya vande guroh sri-caranaravindam </CENTER>(Gurbastaka - 7) Srila Gurudeva has been described as Hari in all the scriptures and the sadhus know Him as such. But I pray at the lotus feet of Srila Gurudeva who is the dear servant of Lord Sri krishna chaitanya. <CENTER>suddhabhaktah sri guroh shri shilasyacha bhagabata saha aveda drustim tatpriyatamatwai neba manyante </CENTER>(Bhakti Sandarbha - 2/16) <CENTER> </CENTER>Advanced devotees understand that a pure Spiritual master is nondifferent from the all-auspicious personality of Godhead and simultaneously His very dear servant. <CENTER> gurur na sa syat sva-jano na sa syat pita na sa syaj janani na sa syat daivam na tat syan na patis ca sa syan na mocayed yah samupeta-mrtyum </CENTER>(Srimad Bhagabata - 5/5/18) One who cannot deliver his own dependants from the path of repeated birth and death by his devotional instructions, should never become a spiritual master, a father, a mother, a husband or a worshipable demigod. <CENTER>sei se parama bandhu sei pita, mata shri krishna charane jei premabhakti data sakala janme pita mata sabe pay krishna guru nahi mile bhajaha hiyay </CENTER>(Chaitanya Mangal - Madhya) One who offers loving devotional service at the lotus feet of Lord Krishna is the dearest friend, father and mother. One begets father and mother in all births, but one does not easily beget Krishna and Guru. Hence worship him in your heart <CENTER>sabda-brahmani nisnato na nisnayatpare yadi sramas tasya srama-phalo hy adhenum iva raksatah </CENTER>(Srimad Bhagabata - 11/11/18) <CENTER> </CENTER>If one though well-versed in Veda has not attained perfection in the knowledge of Sabda Brahma; his study of the Vedas is fruitless, like a man who milches a cow not yeilding milk. <CENTER>A spiritual Master must be a Vaishnava- </CENTER> <CENTER>maha kula prasuto 'pi sarva yajnesu diksitah sahasrasakhadhyai ca no gurum syad avaisnavah </CENTER>(Shri Hari-bhakti-vilasa- 1/45) One who is born in higher caste and is initiated in all jagnyas and has learnt thousand sections of Veda, can not be established as Guru if he is not Vaishnaba. <CENTER>Unqualified Gurus- </CENTER> <CENTER>guravo vahavah santi dipavac ca grhe grhe durlabho 'yam gurur devi surya vat satva dipakah </CENTER>There are many Gurus who exploit the wealth of the disciples (sishya) but real gurus who can alleviate the sorrows of the disciple are rare. <CENTER>guror apy avaliptasya karya akaryatn ajanatah utpatha pratipannasya parityago avidhi yate </CENTER>(Mahabharat udyog parba – 179/25) <CENTER> </CENTER>One who is fond of pleasures, unmindful of his duties and follows mean path leaving behind pure devotion (Sudha Bhakti) is a Guru for the name sake and should be deserted forth with. <CENTER>snehadba lobhato bapi jo gruhniyadadikhsyaya tasmin gurau sasishye tu debata shapa apatet </CENTER>(Shri Hari-bhakti-vilasa - 2/7) By affection or by greed if Guru offers mantra without observing the proper principles of initiation(dikhsya), and if the disciple (sishya) accept him, as such both Guru and disciple are cursed by the devatas. <CENTER>jo byakti nyay rahita manyaena tabubhou narakam ghoram brajatah kalamakhynyam </CENTER>(Shri Hari-bhakti-vilasa - 1/101) One who (in the guise of Acharya) preaches matters against the accepted scriptures and who listens to the same as disciple (sishya), both of them fall in hell for unlimited time. <CENTER> paramartha gurvasrayo vaharika guru adi pratyagena api kartavyah </CENTER>(Bhakti sandarbha - 210) One should reject a worldly, materialistic, and spiritually unqualified guru and should take shelter of a qualified pure Vaisnav guru. <CENTER>avaisnava upadistena mantrena nirayam vrajet tasmac ca vidhina samyag grahayed vaisnavad guroh (Shri Hari-bhakti-vilasa - 4/366) </CENTER>If one is initiated by a non-vaisnava, then he is destined for hell. As such, one should follow scriptural injunctions and accept re-initiation from a Vaisnava guru with a Vaisnava mantra <CENTER>nr-deham adyatn su-labham su-durlabham plavam su-kalpam guru-karnadharam mayanukulena nabhasvateritam puman bhavadhim na taret sa atma-ha </CENTER>(Srimad Bhagabat - 11/20/17) That man (undoubtedly) kills his soul (brings about his own spiritual degradation), who having secured the exceptionally fit vessel of a human body, the source of all blessings and (therefore) a most rare boon, yet easily obtained (without any effort by the grace of God) and piloted by (an expert helms man in the form of ) a preceptor and propeller by a favourable wind in the shape of Myself (nevertheless) fails to cross the ocean of mundane existence. <CENTER>gurushuanaramatirjasya ba narakis Sah </CENTER>(Padma Purana) <CENTER> </CENTER>One who thinks Gurudev as a human being is to go to hell. (naraka). <CENTER> A pure guru is nondifferent from god- </CENTER> <CENTER>yasya saksad bhagavati jnana-dipa grade gurau martyasad-dhih srutam tasya sarvam kunjara-sucavat </CENTER>(Srimad Bhagabat - 7/15/26) Analogous to the bath of an elephant (which throws dust on its body immediately after washing it,) is all sacred knowledge possessed by a man who entertains the perverted notion about the teacher -(who has conferred on him the light of wisdom and (as such) is no other than the Lord) that he is a mortal being (like himself) <CENTER>tadviddhi pranipatena pariprasnena sevaya upadeksyanti to jnanam jnaninastattvadarsinah </CENTER>(Bhagabad Gita - 4/34) (Oh Arjuna) Understand the true nature of that knowledge by approaching illumined soul. If you prostrate at their feet, render them service, and question them with an open and guileless heart, those wise seers of Truth will instruct you in that Knowledge. <CENTER>evam gurupasanayaika-bhaktya vidya-kutharena sitena dhirah vivrscya jivasayam apramattah sampadya catmanam atha tyajastram </CENTER>(Srimad Bhagabat - 11/12/24) <CENTER> </CENTER>Having thus subdued yourself and remaining alert, (all the while) cut at the root of your astral body (the distinguishing appurtenance of a jiva) with exclusive devotion (to me) acquired by sitting at the feet of a preceptor (guru) or by means of the keen-edged axe of wisdom (in the form of self realisation): and having (thereby) realised the self, cast off forthwith the weapon (with which you have rent the veil of ignorance in the form of your jivahood). <CENTER> http://www.srilapurimaharaja.org/books/sri_guru_puja_2000/sri_guru_tattva.html
- November 6, 2004
- 3 replies
Sri Guru Tattva

Pankaja_Dasa posted a topic in Vedic Verses

<HTML><HEAD><TITLE>Sri Guru Tattva</TITLE> <CENTER>SRI GURU TATTVA </CENTER> We come to know the necessity of acceptance of Sad Guru from following scriptures:- <CENTER>tad-vynanartham sa gurum evabhigacchet samit panih srotriyam brahma-nistham </CENTER>(Mundaka Upanisad 1/2/12) <CENTER> </CENTER>To learn the science of transcendental devotional service to the Supreme Personality of Godhead, a person should approach, with firewood in hands, a self-realised spiritual master who is expert in vedic literatures and fixed in devotional service directly to the Lord. <CENTER>acaryavan puruso veda </CENTER>(Chandogya Upanisad - 6/14/2) "A person who takes shelter, with devotion, of a bonafide spiritual master will know the science of the Absolute Truth perfectly". <CENTER>utisthata jagrata prdpya varan nibodhata ksurasya dhara nisita duratyaya durgama pathas tat kavayo vadanti </CENTER>(Kathopanisad - 1/3/14) Thus addresseth the Vedapurusha regarding the pious ones (sadhus) :- Oh Sadhus ! be relieved of the thoughts regarding various earthly possessions. Desert the unwanted elements, get spirited in the real self and try to acquire knowledge regarding the Godhead by obtaining the compassion of the blessed ones. This mortal world is like the sharp edge of a blade, and cause of innumerable sorrows. It is beyond easy means to cross this mortal world without acquiring knowledge regarding the Godhead. The divine seers pronounce that the world reliever Brahma is attained with great efforts. There is no other way to swim accross the sea of mortal world except persuing the Godhead at the lotus feet of Srila Gurudev. <CENTER>yasya deve para bhaktir yatha-deve tatha gurau tasyaite kathita hy arthah prakasante mahatmanah </CENTER>(Swetaswatara Upanisad - 6/23) Only unto those great souls who have implicit faith in both the Lord and the spiritual master are all the imports of Vedic knowledge automatically revealed. <CENTER>nayam atma pravacanena labhyo na medhaya na bahuna srutena yam evaisa vrnute tena labhyas tasyaisa atma vivrnute tanum svam </CENTER>(Kathopanisad - 1/2/23) The Supreme Lord is not attained by reasonings or by vast intelligence, nor even by much hearing. He is attained only by one whom he Himself chooses. To such a person He manifests His own form. <CENTER>janan maranadi samsaranala-santapta dipta kira jalarasim iva upahara panih srotriyain brahma nistham gurum upasrtya tamanusarati </CENTER>(Vedanta Sara) As a man goes to water when his head becomes very hot, so a disciple who is tortured by the fire of birth and death in the mortal world approaches a Spiritual Master who is well versed in the conclusions of Vedic literature and strictly follows his instructions and becomes subservient to him <CENTER> jiva nitya krishna das taha bhuli gela aei doshe maya tare galay bandhila </CENTER>(Chaitanya Charitamrita madhya 22/24) <CENTER> krsna bhuli'sei jiva anadi-bahirmukha ataeva maya tare deya samsara-duhkha </CENTER>(Chaitanyacharitamrita, madhya - 20/117) <CENTER>krsna-bahirmukha haya bhoga vancha kare nikata-stha Maya tare japatiya dhare pisachi paile jena matichanna hay mayagrasta jiber hae se bhaba uday ami nitya krishna dasa-ei katha bhule mayar nafar haya china dina bule kabhu raja, kabhu praja, kabhu bipra sudra kabhu sukhi, kabhu dukhi, kabhu kita khyudra kabhu swarge, kabhu martye, nanake ba kabhu kabhu deva, kabhu daitya, kabhu dasa prabhu (Prema Bibarta) </CENTER> When the Jiva forgets that he is ever servant to Lord Sri Krishna & desires of earthly possessions he is caught by Maya for his fault. Forgetting Sri Krisna, the living entity has been attracted by the external features from time immemorial. Hence the illusory energy (Maya) punishes him with worldly miseries. Turning away his face from Krisna as he desires earthly enjoyments, he is immediately struck down by illusory energy (Maya) of Lord. The condition of a living entity (jiba) captured by illusory energy is the same as one who lost his head when confronted with a she demon. He forgets that he is subsurvient to Lord Krisna and moves about as a servant of illusory energy forever. <CENTER> brahmanda bhramite kona bhagyavan jiva guru-krsna prasade paya bhakti-lata-bija tate krishna bhaje kare gurur seban mayajala chhute pay shrikrishnacharan (Chaitanyacharitamrita, Madhya - 19/151 & 22/25) </CENTER> Thus wandering through the entire universe, some fortunate soul gets the seed of bhaktilata (creeper) by the grace of Spiritual master and Sri Krishna. Then he worships Krishna under the guidance of Guru and frees himself from the illusory energy. <CENTER>mukam karoti vacalam pangum langhayate girim yat-krpa tam aham vande sri gurum dina tarinam </CENTER>(Bhabartha Dipika) I offer my respectful obeisances to the Spiritual Master whose grace turns a dumb into an eloquent speaker and enables the lame to cross mountains. <CENTER>Rareness of a qualified Guru and disciple:- </CENTER> <CENTER>shravanayapi bahuvir jo na lavyah shrunvantopi bahavo jam na biduh ascharjyosya bakta kushalosya labdha ascharyo jnata kushalanusistah </CENTER>(Kathopanisad - 1/2/7) That Atma (Paramatma) is neither audible nor attainable by many, because an experienced adviser versed in vedic scriptures and a realised person are rare. He only can make the disciple efficient. Some efficient souls come to know Him after being advised by experienced Acharya (Guru). <CENTER>tasmad gurum prapadyeta jijnasuh sreya uttamam sabde pare ca nisnatam brahmany upasamasrayam </CENTER>(Srimad Bhagabat - 11/3/21) <CENTER> </CENTER>One who is inquisitive about his duties and otherwise should take shelter under Sadguru in order to know the best of principles. One who is an exponent of Sabdabrahma i.e the Vedic scriptures and who has acquired the experience of Parambrahma and beyond any scruples is the Sadguru. <CENTER>kripasindhu susampurnah sarva satvopakarakah nisprhah sarvatah siddhah sarva vidya visaradah sarva samsaya sancchetta 'nalaso gurur ahrtah </CENTER>(Haribhakti bilasa - 1/45/46) Such person is called Guru who is an ocean of mercy, who feels pain on seeing the unhappiness of others, who is always satisfied and who works for the welfare of others, who does not desire sense gratification, who is perfect in all respects, who is expert in all scriptural knowledge, who removes the doubts of his followers and who is not lazy. (always busy in serving the Lord). <CENTER>vaco vegam manasah krodha-vegam jihva-vegam udaropastha-vegam etan vegan yo visaheta dhirah sarvam apimarh prthivim sa sisyat </CENTER>(Upadeshamrita - 1st sloka) A sober person who can tolerate the urge to speak, the mind's demands, the actions of anger and the urges of the tongue, belly and genitals is qualified to make disciples all over the world. <CENTER>sat-karma-nipuno vipro mantra-tantra-visaradah avaisnavo gurur na syad vaisnavah sva-paco guruh </CENTER>(Sri Haribhaktibilasa) Even if a brahmana is very learned in Vedic scripture and knows the six occupational duties of brahmana, he cannot become a guru or spiritual master unless he is a devotee of the Supreme Personality of Godhead. However, if one is born in a low caste family, but is a pure devotee of the Lord, he can become a spiritual master. <CENTER>Vaisnab is the Guru of all caste and creed </CENTER> <CENTER>bipra khsyatriya baishyascha gurabah sudrajanmanam sudrasaha gurabastesham trayanam bhagabatpriyah </CENTER>(Padma Purana) Those born as brahmin, khsyatriya and baishya may become guru of those born as shudras, this is the general principle. But those dear to the lord even if born as shudra can become the Guru of those three castes i.e. brahmin, kshyatriya and baishya. <CENTER>kiba bipra, kiba nydsi sudra kene nay jei krishna tatwa betta sei guru hay </CENTER>(Chaitanya Charitamrita - Madhya - 8/127) Whether one is a brahmana, a sannyasi or a shudra regardless of what he is - he can become a spiritual master if he knows the science of Krsna. <CENTER>kiva varni kivasrami kiwi varnasramahina krsna tattva vetta yei, sei acarya pravina asal katha chadi bhai varne ye kare adara asad guru kari tara vinasta purvapara </CENTER>(Prema Bibarta) Any person can become a genuine acarya, regardless of his position in varnasrama-dharma, whether born as a sudra or even an outcaste, if he truthfully speaks the science of Krsna. If he gives up a true spiritual master and chooses another spiritual master based on caste, he may in fact obtain an unqualified spiritual master and destroy even his previously earned spiritual advancement. <CENTER>Who is Acharya ? </CENTER> <CENTER>upaniya to jah sishyam bedamadhyapayed dvirja sankalpam sarahasyancha tamacharjyam prachakhyate </CENTER>(Manu Samhita - 2/140) A bramhin who gives upanayan to his disciple and teaches him Upanishad with the entire Vedas, is pronounced as Acharya (guru) by all the munis (saints). <CENTER>acinoti yah sastrartham acare sthapayatya 'pi svayam acarati yasmad aicaryas tena kirtitah </CENTER>(Vayu Purana) <CENTER> </CENTER>One who understands the essence of Vedic literatures, and who teaches this standard to others by his words and his personal example, is accepted as an acarya. <CENTER>yadyadacarati sresthastattadevetaro janah sa yatpramanarh kurute lokastadanuvartate </CENTER>(Bhagabad Gita - 3/21) For whatever a great man does, that very thing other men also do; whatever standard he sets up, the generality of men follow the same. <CENTER>A guru teaches by word and example - </CENTER> <CENTER>apane acare keha, na kare pracara pracara karena keha, na karena acara </CENTER>Some behave very well but do not preach the science of Krshna, whereas others preach but do not behave properly. (Caitanya-caritamrta, Antya 4.102) <CENTER>'acara', 'pracdra',-- namera karaha 'dui' karya tumi-- sarva-guru, tumi jagatera arya </CENTER>(Chaitanya Charitamrita, Antya - 4/103) You simultaneously perform both duties in relation to the holy name by your personal behavior and by your preaching. Therefore you are the spiritual master of the entire world, for you are the most advanced devotee in the world. (Caitanya-caritamrta Antya 4.103) <CENTER>apani achari bhakti sikhamu sabare </CENTER>(Chaitanyacharitamrita, Adi - 3/20) I will teach bhakti to everybody by following all the principles myself. <CENTER>apani no kaile dharma sikhdna na jay </CENTER>(Chaitanyacharitamkrita, Adi - 3/21) Unless one observes the principles of religioun himself it is not possible to teach others. <CENTER>acaryam mam vyaniyan navamanyeta karhicit na martya-buddhyasuyeta sarva-deva-mayo guruh </CENTER>(Srimad Bhagabat - 11/17/27) Lord Sri Krishna told Uddhaba -- One should know the acarya as Myself and never disrespect him in any way. One should not envy him, thinking him an ordinary man, for he is the representative of all the demigods. <CENTER>vande gurun isa-bhaktan isam isavatarakan tat prakasamas ca tac-chaktih krsna-caitanya-samjnakam </CENTER>(Chaitanyacharitamrita, Adi - 1/32) I offer my respectful obeisances unto the spiritual master, the devotees of the Lord, the Lord's incarnations, His plenary portions, His energies, and the primeval Lord Himself, Sri Krsna Chaitanya. <CENTER>krisna gurudwaya bhakta abatara prakasha shakti ei chhay rupe karena bilasha </CENTER>(Chaitanyacharitamrita, Adi - 1/342) Krsna manifests in six forms, His own self, the two types of gurus, (Sikhsya and Dikhsya) Avatara, Prakasha and Shakti. <CENTER> Dikhsya Guru - jadyapi amara guru chaitanyera das tathapi janiye ami tanhara prakasha </CENTER> (Chaitanyacharitamrita, Adi - 1/44) Even if my guru is the servant of Lord Chaitanya I recognise him as His manifestation. <CENTER>Sikhya Guru - </CENTER> <CENTER>guru krsna-rupa hana sastrera pramane guru-rupe krsna krpa karena bhakta-gane sikhsya guruke ta'jani krishner swarup antaryami bhaktashrestha - aei dui rupa </CENTER>(Chaitanyacharitamrita; Adi 1-45, 47) According to Shashtras guru is the manifestation of Sri Krishna. Krishna blesses the devotees in the form of Guru. Sikhsyaguru is the embodiment of Sri Krishna. One who is all-knowing and one who is the best of devotees these are the two forms of sikhya guru. <CENTER> jibe sakhsyat nahi tate guru chaitya rupe sikhsya guru hay krishna mahanta swarupe </CENTER>(Chaitanyacharitamrita, Adi - 1/58) Without manifesting Him outside, Krishna dwells inside the mind as chaitya guru, and again he becomes the teacher in the form of guru (Mahanta) <CENTER>naivopayanty apacitim kavayas tavesa brahmayusapi krtam rddha-mudah smarantah yo `ntar bahis tanu-bhrtam asubham vidhunvann acarya-caittya-vapusa sva-gatim vyanakti </CENTER>(Srimad Bhagabat - 11/29/6) Uddhaba speaks to Lord Krishna - Oh Lord You destroy all the evils of the mortal souls by unimaginable grace and in order to establish Yourself You exist as Acharya (Guru) externally and as 'Antaryami' in the mind. The learned ones can not fathom the depth of such pastimes of yours even if they get the years of life that Brahma has. <CENTER>Grace of guru can be achieved by mercy of Krisna- </CENTER> <CENTER>krsna yadi krpa kare kona bhagyavane guru-antaryami-rupe sikhaya apane </CENTER>(Chaitanyacharitamrita, Madhya - 22/47) <CENTER> </CENTER>If Krishna blesses some fortunate person, He gives lessons as Guru without and Supersoul within. <CENTER>Guru is the giver of Divine knowledge- </CENTER> <CENTER>om ajnana-timirandhasya jnananjana-salakaya caksur unmilitam yena tasmai sri-gurave namah </CENTER> I offer my respectful obeisances unto my spiritual master, who has opened my eyes, which were blinded by the darkness of ignorance, with the torchlight of knowledge. <CENTER>na dharmam na dharmam shrutigana niruktam kila kuru braje radhakrishna-prachura paricharyamiha tanu sachisunum nandiswar-patisutatve gurubaram mukunda presthatve smara paramajasram nanu manah </CENTER>(Mana sikhya - 2) Oh ! mind, don't persue the dharma which has been described in the Vedas as Punya (good deeds), and Adharma which has been described as sin (papa). You only worship Sri Radha Krishna in 'Braja', and Gourasundar the son of Sachi knowing him as the manifestations of Sri Krishna the son of Nanda and Srila Gurudev as near and dear to Mukunda. <CENTER>saksad-dharitvena samasta-sastrair uktas tatha bhavyata eva sadbhih kintu prabhor yah priya eva tasya vande guroh sri-caranaravindam </CENTER>(Gurbastaka - 7) Srila Gurudeva has been described as Hari in all the scriptures and the sadhus know Him as such. But I pray at the lotus feet of Srila Gurudeva who is the dear servant of Lord Sri krishna chaitanya. <CENTER>suddhabhaktah sri guroh shri shilasyacha bhagabata saha aveda drustim tatpriyatamatwai neba manyante </CENTER>(Bhakti Sandarbha - 2/16) <CENTER> </CENTER>Advanced devotees understand that a pure Spiritual master is nondifferent from the all-auspicious personality of Godhead and simultaneously His very dear servant. <CENTER> gurur na sa syat sva-jano na sa syat pita na sa syaj janani na sa syat daivam na tat syan na patis ca sa syan na mocayed yah samupeta-mrtyum </CENTER>(Srimad Bhagabata - 5/5/18) One who cannot deliver his own dependants from the path of repeated birth and death by his devotional instructions, should never become a spiritual master, a father, a mother, a husband or a worshipable demigod. <CENTER>sei se parama bandhu sei pita, mata shri krishna charane jei premabhakti data sakala janme pita mata sabe pay krishna guru nahi mile bhajaha hiyay </CENTER>(Chaitanya Mangal - Madhya) One who offers loving devotional service at the lotus feet of Lord Krishna is the dearest friend, father and mother. One begets father and mother in all births, but one does not easily beget Krishna and Guru. Hence worship him in your heart <CENTER>sabda-brahmani nisnato na nisnayatpare yadi sramas tasya srama-phalo hy adhenum iva raksatah </CENTER>(Srimad Bhagabata - 11/11/18) <CENTER> </CENTER>If one though well-versed in Veda has not attained perfection in the knowledge of Sabda Brahma; his study of the Vedas is fruitless, like a man who milches a cow not yeilding milk. <CENTER>A spiritual Master must be a Vaishnava- </CENTER> <CENTER>maha kula prasuto 'pi sarva yajnesu diksitah sahasrasakhadhyai ca no gurum syad avaisnavah </CENTER>(Shri Hari-bhakti-vilasa- 1/45) One who is born in higher caste and is initiated in all jagnyas and has learnt thousand sections of Veda, can not be established as Guru if he is not Vaishnaba. <CENTER>Unqualified Gurus- </CENTER> <CENTER>guravo vahavah santi dipavac ca grhe grhe durlabho 'yam gurur devi surya vat satva dipakah </CENTER>There are many Gurus who exploit the wealth of the disciples (sishya) but real gurus who can alleviate the sorrows of the disciple are rare. <CENTER>guror apy avaliptasya karya akaryatn ajanatah utpatha pratipannasya parityago avidhi yate </CENTER>(Mahabharat udyog parba – 179/25) <CENTER> </CENTER>One who is fond of pleasures, unmindful of his duties and follows mean path leaving behind pure devotion (Sudha Bhakti) is a Guru for the name sake and should be deserted forth with. <CENTER>snehadba lobhato bapi jo gruhniyadadikhsyaya tasmin gurau sasishye tu debata shapa apatet </CENTER>(Shri Hari-bhakti-vilasa - 2/7) By affection or by greed if Guru offers mantra without observing the proper principles of initiation(dikhsya), and if the disciple (sishya) accept him, as such both Guru and disciple are cursed by the devatas. <CENTER>jo byakti nyay rahita manyaena tabubhou narakam ghoram brajatah kalamakhynyam </CENTER>(Shri Hari-bhakti-vilasa - 1/101) One who (in the guise of Acharya) preaches matters against the accepted scriptures and who listens to the same as disciple (sishya), both of them fall in hell for unlimited time. <CENTER> paramartha gurvasrayo vaharika guru adi pratyagena api kartavyah </CENTER>(Bhakti sandarbha - 210) One should reject a worldly, materialistic, and spiritually unqualified guru and should take shelter of a qualified pure Vaisnav guru. <CENTER>avaisnava upadistena mantrena nirayam vrajet tasmac ca vidhina samyag grahayed vaisnavad guroh (Shri Hari-bhakti-vilasa - 4/366) </CENTER>If one is initiated by a non-vaisnava, then he is destined for hell. As such, one should follow scriptural injunctions and accept re-initiation from a Vaisnava guru with a Vaisnava mantra <CENTER>nr-deham adyatn su-labham su-durlabham plavam su-kalpam guru-karnadharam mayanukulena nabhasvateritam puman bhavadhim na taret sa atma-ha </CENTER>(Srimad Bhagabat - 11/20/17) That man (undoubtedly) kills his soul (brings about his own spiritual degradation), who having secured the exceptionally fit vessel of a human body, the source of all blessings and (therefore) a most rare boon, yet easily obtained (without any effort by the grace of God) and piloted by (an expert helms man in the form of ) a preceptor and propeller by a favourable wind in the shape of Myself (nevertheless) fails to cross the ocean of mundane existence. <CENTER>gurushuanaramatirjasya ba narakis Sah </CENTER>(Padma Purana) <CENTER> </CENTER>One who thinks Gurudev as a human being is to go to hell. (naraka). <CENTER> A pure guru is nondifferent from god- </CENTER> <CENTER>yasya saksad bhagavati jnana-dipa grade gurau martyasad-dhih srutam tasya sarvam kunjara-sucavat </CENTER>(Srimad Bhagabat - 7/15/26) Analogous to the bath of an elephant (which throws dust on its body immediately after washing it,) is all sacred knowledge possessed by a man who entertains the perverted notion about the teacher -(who has conferred on him the light of wisdom and (as such) is no other than the Lord) that he is a mortal being (like himself) <CENTER>tadviddhi pranipatena pariprasnena sevaya upadeksyanti to jnanam jnaninastattvadarsinah </CENTER>(Bhagabad Gita - 4/34) (Oh Arjuna) Understand the true nature of that knowledge by approaching illumined soul. If you prostrate at their feet, render them service, and question them with an open and guileless heart, those wise seers of Truth will instruct you in that Knowledge. <CENTER>evam gurupasanayaika-bhaktya vidya-kutharena sitena dhirah vivrscya jivasayam apramattah sampadya catmanam atha tyajastram </CENTER>(Srimad Bhagabat - 11/12/24) <CENTER> </CENTER>Having thus subdued yourself and remaining alert, (all the while) cut at the root of your astral body (the distinguishing appurtenance of a jiva) with exclusive devotion (to me) acquired by sitting at the feet of a preceptor (guru) or by means of the keen-edged axe of wisdom (in the form of self realisation): and having (thereby) realised the self, cast off forthwith the weapon (with which you have rent the veil of ignorance in the form of your jivahood). <CENTER> http://www.srilapurimaharaja.org/books/sri_guru_puja_2000/sri_guru_tattva.html
- November 6, 2004
Read FULL Bhagavatam all 12 Cantos in less than a year

Pankaja_Dasa replied to Pankaja_Dasa's topic in Spiritual Discussions

Not sure. What you said about chanting yes you need to chant this will lead to real{iszation} /images/graemlins/grin.gif
- November 6, 2004
- 5 replies
What is sense gratification?

Pankaja_Dasa replied to Pankaja_Dasa's topic in Spiritual Discussions

Thats nice ty /images/graemlins/grin.gif
- November 6, 2004
- 3 replies
What is sense gratification?

Pankaja_Dasa posted a topic in Spiritual Discussions

What is sense gratification? I want a scientific answer.
- November 6, 2004
- 3 replies
'The Illusory energy'

Pankaja_Dasa posted a topic in Spiritual Discussions

Hare Krishna- Has anybody ever been thinking about Krishna and a thought comes into your mind to delude you and you turn around to 'The Illusory energy' and say "Oh come on you can do better than that"?
- November 6, 2004
- 1 reply
Read FULL Bhagavatam all 12 Cantos in less than a year

Pankaja_Dasa posted a topic in Spiritual Discussions

Read FULL Bhagavatam all 12 Cantos in less than a year. Just read 1 Chapter a day lol 335 Chapters Whos up for this? Tell me
- November 6, 2004
- 5 replies
Faith by Vishnujana Swami

Pankaja_Dasa posted a topic in Spiritual Discussions

~ Bhagavad-Gita Class ~ </DIV> chapter 4, verse 40 ajnash chashraddhadhanash cha samshayatma vinashyati nayam loko 'sti na paro na sukam samshayatmanah</DIV></DIV> But the ignorant and faithless persons who doubt the revealed scriptures surely do not attain Supreme consciousness. For the doubting soul there is happiness neither in this world nor in the next. "Very important verse - 'For the doubting soul there is happiness neither in this world nor in the next.' The scripture denotes reality; doubting denotes relativity. As long as one is involved in the relativity there is a vacancy in his heart. That means one doesn't know oneself or ones relationship with God, or what the purpose of the material world is, why everything is going on. One cannot answer these questions when asked. So this vacancy of the heart is due to being caught up in the relativity of material existance. It's a frustration which underlies the limitation of our association with senses and relationships in this material world. We become frustrated because in our childhood we wanted things we couldn't get, and we became frustrated, you see. And as we grow up again the same thing, same thing, same thing, and gradually instead of throwing a tantrum we learn how to control ourselves a little bit and we make a mental adjustment to the fact that we're not able to fulfill our desires. However, people want to fulfill their desires just as much; its just that they suppress throwing a tantrum, for a child it is alright to throw a tantrum. So, material life is frustrating because it deals with the relativity of my limited senses trying to lord it over other limited objects that I have no control over. It is like a little child - he's trying to grasp a ball, "It's my ball, it's my ball," another child takes it away or it rolls out into the street... you see. A young boy wants to go out and play and his mother's telling him, "No, you have to go to school," so he begins crying, "No, I don't want to go to school, I wanna play!" We're not meant to have to go to school, you see, in our spiritual constitutional position. So, this is the problem of material existence. It's a very frustrating experience for the soul, as Krishna says in Bhagavad-Gita, "All these living entities are My parts and parcels, and they are struggling hard with this machine of the material energy." They are struggling very hard with this machine. This body is a machine. It's a car, and we are struggling with it, trying to comb its hair, brush its teeth, you see the girls trying to make their hair look nice, someone's trying to keep their teeth together, somone's getting his teeth fixed, someone else is doing this and another person is trying to do so many things to keep this body together, but ultimately it's frustrating because this body just is not under our control. It's under the control of the laws of nature, laws of time, etc. So relativity of existence creates doubt. One doesn't know that there is any Absolute Truth. In fact, one becomes so frustrated seeing so many different kinds of religions and so many different approaches, apparent contridictions, and one becomes doubtful if there is any such thing. This is the hurdle one has to cross over to advance in spiritual life. The mental plane is a very difficult plane to become detached from. We're so attached to our minds and thoughts. We identify. We think, "Yes, these are my thoughts," but we don't think anything that is our, you see. It's all been impressed upon us - nobody feels anything independently, nobody thinks anything independently, and nobody does anything independently. Thinking, feeling, willing and acting are controlled either by the illusory energy of God or directly by God Himself... or by your Spiritual Master if you surrender to a Spiritual Master. No one is doing and thinking, feeling, willing anything independently - it's all being controlled. So until one surrenders unto a bonafide Spiritual Master, until one surrenders to God, his senses, his mind, his intelligence, his thinking, feeling, willing, acting are all dictated by the modes of material nature, you see, by the illusory energy. And, therefore, he sees nothing but relativity. Nothing but relativity. He can't imagine there being an absolute realm, where everything is eternal, full of bliss and knowledge. He can't imagine having an absolute body of the same nature, or relating in a loving relationship as lover of God, child of God, friend of God, mother of God, in that spiritual realm. These things seem completely off the track. Completely out of his reality of going to the football game or whatever he is going to do. But this is reality; scripture is giving us reality, you see. But, due to our doubt, due to our faithlessness, we're seeing everything in relativity, and therefore we're unhappy, therefore we're frustrated trying to struggle to control this relative world. The scripture says that this world is jagat - it's temporary. It appears to be real, but it's real only for a few moments and then it vanishes. Being the energy of Krishna, it must be real because God is real - whatever emanates from Him is also real - but it's temporarily real, you see. So what we're seeing, what we're thinking is real is actually simply like a film show going on. You know how when you go in the cinema you become fooled by the screen into thinking that there's a boat, there's this, and you get this emotional thing over this simple, dimensional phantasmagoria. People come in the movie and they're crying, you know, it's thinking how the boy loved the girl or how this and that, it's all a phantasmagoria. Nothing is going on at all except someone is controlling their minds by presenting them a few pictures taken all in a row and printing them, on and on, and it looks like there's something alive on the screen. Similarly, this whole material manifestation is nothing but a few elements, earth, air, fire, water, ether, mind, intelligence and ego, and a few other things - the sense, the sense objects, the interaction, the aggregate, lust, greed, etc - all these elements, twenty-four altogether, are put together in various combinations and they present this entire phantasmagoria of the material world. and everybody is fooled into allowing themselves and their consciousness to be absorbed in this phantasmagoria, just like people are fooled in the cinema show, to be absorbed in something and then take it as reality. And they get emotional about it, they start crying over it, it's my body, it's my wife, it's my family, this, that. And it becomes a whole illusory scene in material existence. Dhira, a sober man, is one who sees all this through scripture, because according to scripture it's just a few elements put together by the illusory energy, and it's meant to trap those that are unaware of their relationship with God. But, one who knows his relationship with God can use this same illusory energy in the service of God and turn it into spirit. Matter engaged in the service of spirit regains its spiritual quality, you see. Just like iron in connection with fire gains the quality of fire - heat, light, etc. for all practical purposes it's fire. Similarly, matter engaged in the service of spirit acts as spirit. It invokes eternity, it invokes knowledge, it invokes bliss. Just like we're using this bus - it's matter, but it's invoking eternity, it's invoking knowledge, it's invoking bliss. One can say that all these jewels, etc. are simply a temporary phantasmagoria, but it's invoking knowledge of Krishna, it's invoking bliss of loving Krishna. The food, you may say, is regular food - I put it in my mouth, it comes out as stool a few hours later; it's just like any other food, you see, but if you eat this prasadam you find it invokes eternity, it invokes knowledge, and it invokes bliss. And what we're saying is nothing but sound, which is another material element, but if you keep hearing this sound, if you keep hearing these words, then it invokes eternity, knowledge and bliss. See how to judge a thing by its result, not by its apparent attributes. What appears to be material, when engaged in the service of the Lord, is actually as good as the spiritual world. So we're not living in the material world. We've realized that, those of us that are advancing in Krishna Consciousness, we're not living in this material world - we're living in eternity, knowledge and bliss. That platform of realization is mentioned - Prabhupada says one should therefore follow in the footsteps of great acharyas who are in the disciplic succession, and thereby obtain success. You can attain to this platform if you follow in the footsteps of great liberated souls..."</DIV></DIV></BODY></HTML> http://www.vishnujana.com/
- November 6, 2004
Mantra Meditation by Vishnujana Swami

Pankaja_Dasa posted a topic in Spiritual Discussions

Mantra Meditation by Vishnujana Swami "For some of you who haven't heard of this type of meditation before, this is called mantra meditation. The word man means mind, and tra means to free. So the sounds we are singing from the ancient Sanskrit language of India are actually very powerful sound formulas which are meant to free the mind of all anxieties and all misconceptions of our self and everything around us. This mantra meditation actually is very easily practiced; even a child can allow his body to sway and allow this sound vibration to swim around his being. This sound vibration is so wonderful that if you allow your mind to absorb in it then automatically you can reach the reservoir of pleasure. That's what the name Hare means; Hare means the reservoir of pleasure, Krishna means all-attractive, and Rama means the enjoyer. So these three words -- Hare, Krishna, and Rama -- are put into this formula: Hare Krishna Hare Krishna, Krishna Krishna Hare Hare / Hare Rama Hare Rama, Rama Rama Hare Hare. And this formula will stop the wandering of the mind and will stop the mind from accepting one thing and then rejecting it for another: accepting-rejecting. This is usually what are mind does. It accepts something for pleasure, then it rejects it and goes on to something else for pleasure. In this way the mind is always kept wandering and it never finds that reservoir of pleasure. So in yoga the whole idea is to come in touch with this reservoir of pleasure. Then the mind no longer has to reject it and go on to something else, but can remain ever expanding in this ecstasy. And this is what we experience from this chanting. The proof of the pudding is in tasting it. We invite everyone to dive into this pudding, dive into this nectarean flow of this manrta -- Hare, Krishna, and Rama. So we're going to chant some more songs along with Hare Krishna, then there'll be a lecture on this science of yoga and a lecture about this festival, what we're celebrating here today with this little castle we're building out of flowers. And then after that we'll serve a beautiful vegetarian feast. You're all going to be invited to help us decorate this house, by the way. Right after the lecture we'll invite everyone to chant around this house and decorate it with us..." http://www.vishnujana.com/
- November 6, 2004
Atheism as a concept

Pankaja_Dasa replied to Pankaja_Dasa's topic in Spiritual Discussions

Yeah, its like holding a gun to your head. Curious...why did you say...if the mind fills our consciousness with constant doubting chatter Your talking about the Soul Conscious. Higher than the Intelligence. /images/graemlins/wink.gif
- November 5, 2004
- 8 replies
Atheism as a concept

Pankaja_Dasa posted a topic in Spiritual Discussions

Atheism as a concept Even though I am trying for Krishna Consciousness I am still unhappy. Where as my fellow Earthlings are happy in their blissful ignorance of spiritual existence which is a false concept anyway. Maybe God is a false concept, maybe Atheism is the way the Truth? Something to think about| -Pankaja
- November 5, 2004
- 8 replies
Vedic Mathematics

Pankaja_Dasa posted a topic in Spiritual Discussions

Vedic Mathematics Interesting site: http://www.gosai.com/chaitanya/saranagati/html/vishnu_mjs/math/index.html
- November 5, 2004
no other means

Pankaja_Dasa replied to theist's topic in Spiritual Discussions

Suddha Nama by B.B. Visnu Maharaja The priceless treasure of divine prema, pure ecstatic love of God, which is fully manifest in Goloka Vrndavana, has descended to this world in the holy name. As such, the highest attainment has been made available to the lowest of persons. Simply by sincere offenseless chanting of the Hare Krsna maha-mantra one is freed from all gross and subtle material coverings and quickly achieves all perfection. 'Eka' krsna-name kare sarva-papa nasa, "Simply chanting the Hare Krsna maha-mantra without offenses vanquishes all sinful activities (Cc. Adi-lila 8.26) Of the four features of the Lord (name, form, qualities, and activities), the Lord's name is the original. From the holy name, the Lord's form, qualities, and pastimes gradually blossom. The entire panorama of Lord Krsna's pastimes is present in the holy name. The holy name awards cognition of the other three features. The Lord himself declares that his name is the highest absolute truth. Therefore, chanting the holy name of the Lord is the prime religious activity of a Vaisnava.
- November 5, 2004
- 1 reply
Origin of the Jiva

Pankaja_Dasa posted a topic in Spiritual Discussions

Origin of the Jiva Commentary by Srila Bhaktirakshaka Sridhar Dev Goswami Maharaja How does the soul first appear in this world? From what stage of spiritual existence does he fall into the material world?" This is a broad question, which requires some background information. There are two classes of souls, jivas, who come into this world. One class comes from the spiritual Vaikuntha planets by the necessity of nitya-lila, the eternal pastimes of Krsna. Another comes by constitutional necessity. The brahmajyoti, the nondifferentiated marginal plane, is the source of infinite jiva souls, atomic spiritual particles of nondifferentiated character. The rays of the Lord's transcendental body are known as the brahmajyoti, and a pencil of a ray of the brahmajyoti is the jiva. The jiva soul is an atom in that effulgence, and the brahmajyoti is a product of an infinite number of jiva atoms. Generally, souls emanate from the brahmajyoti which is living and growing. Within the brahmajyoti, their equilibrium is somehow disturbed and movement begins. From nondifferentiation, differentiation begins. From a plain sheet of uniform consciousness, individual conscious units grow. And because the jiva is conscious it is endowed with free will. So, from the marginal position they choose either the side of exploitation or the side of dedication. Krsna bhuli sei jiva anadi bahirmukha . Anadi means that which has no beginning. When we enter the land of exploitation, we come within the factor of time, space, and thought. And when we come to exploit, action and reaction begins in the negative land of loan. Although we strive to become masters, really we become losers. Goloka and Vaikuntha servitors are also seen to be within the jurisdiction of the brahmanda, the material universe, but that is only a play, lila. They come from that higher plane only to take part in the Lord's pastimes and then return. The fallen souls come from the marginal position within the brahmajyoti and not from Vaikuntha. The first position of a soul in the material world will be like that of Brahma the creator. Then his karma may take him to the body of a beast like a tiger where he is surrounded with a tigerish mentality, or to the body of a tree or creeper, where different impressions may surround him. In this way, one is involved in action and reaction. The case is complex; to analyze the details of the history of a particular atom is unnecessary. We are concerned with the general thing: how the transformation of the material conception springs from pure consciousness. Matter is not independent of spirit. In the brahmajyoti we are equipoised in the marginal potency as an infinite number of pinpoints of spiritual rays, electrons of consciousness. Consciousness means endowed with free will, for without free will no consciousness can be conceived. An atomic pinpoint of consciousness has very meager free will, and by misuse of their free will some jivas have taken their chance in the material world. They refused to submit to the supreme authority; they wanted to dominate. So, with this germinal idea of domination, the jiva enters into the world of exploitation. In the Bhagavad-gita (7.27) it is stated: iccha-dvesa samutthena dvandva-mohena bharata sarva-bhutani sammoham sarge yanti parantapa "Two principles in a crude form awaken in the jiva: hatred and desire. Then, gradually the soul comes down to mingle with the mundane world." At first, sympathy and apathy develop in a crude form, just as when a sprout springs up with two leaves. And gradually these two things help us to dive deep into this mundane world. Upon retiring from the world of exploitation, the soul may return to his former position in the brahmajyoti as spirit. But, if the soul has gathered the tendency of dedication through his previous devotional activities, he does not stop there; he pierces through the brahmajyoti and goes towards Vaikuntha. Why has the soul come to the world of exploitation" and not the world of dedication? That should be attributed to his innate nature, which is endowed with free will. It is a free choice. This is substantiated in the Bhagavad-gita (5. 14): na kartrtvam na karmani lokasya srjati prabhuh na karma-phala-samyogam svabhavas tu pravartate "The soul is responsible for his entrance into the land of exploitation." The responsibility is with the soul, otherwise, the Lord would be responsible for his distressed condition. But Krsna says that the soul's innate free will is responsible for his entanglement in the material world. The soul is conscious, and consciousness means endowed with freedom. Because the soul is atomic, his free will is imperfect and vulnerable. The result of that free choice is that some are coming into the material world, and some are going to the spiritual world. So, the responsibility is with the individual soul. Once, an Indian political leader, Syamasundara Cakravarti, asked our spiritual master, Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Saraswati Thakura Prabhupada, "Why has the Lord granted such freedom to the jiva ?" Prabhupada told him, ""You are fighting for freedom. Don't you know the value of freedom? Devoid of freedom, the soul is only matter." Freedom offers us the alternative to do right or wrong. Once, Gandhi told the British authorities, ""We want freedom."' They replied, "You are not fit to have self-government. When you are fit, we shall give it to you." But finally, he told them, "We want the freedom to do wrong." So, freedom does not guarantee only acting in the right way; freedom has its value independent of right and wrong. Free will is only absolute with the Absolute Truth. Because we are finite" our free will is infinitesimal. The possibility of committing a mistake is there. Our first choice was to dominate" and so, gradually we have entered the world of domination. As a result of this first action, everything else has developed. So, in different ranks" the species have been divided" from the demigods down to the trees and stones. And watery bodies, gaseous bodies, anything that we find here has evolved in that way. The activating principle in any form of embryological development is the soul, and from the soul, everything has evolved." ______________________________ Additional information for our readers: (In the beginning of his reply to the question as to how the soul first appears in the material world, Srila Sridhar Maharaja mentions that this requires some background. Similiarly, before some of our readers can accept Srila Sridhar Maharaja's above statements as being important guidance for ISKCON in the matter of philosopy we would like to give some background information. Shortly before departing from this world our spiritual master, Srila A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada instructed his disciples, that if they had any questions regarding philosophy they should approach his Godbrother, Srila B.R. Sridhar Maharaja. "For philosophy you may go to my Godbrother, Sridhar Maharaja at Navadwip.) This has been amply documented in "Our Affectionate Guardians." Origin of Jivaaudio mp3 file Return
- November 5, 2004
- 1 reply
Misconception: Fall of Kala Krsnadasa

Pankaja_Dasa posted a topic in Spiritual Discussions

A Commentary on Philosophical Misconceptions Misconception: Fall of Kala Krsnadasa In Our Original Position, the deviation of Kala Krsnadasa is stated in chapter twelve as factual and inescapable evidence that the jiva soul falls down from the eternal lila of the Supreme Lord. Commentary by His Holiness Swami B.G. Narasingha Maharaja Sri Chaitanya Mahaprabhu rejected Kala Krsnadasa from His personal service due to Kala Krsnadasa having been allured by gypsies in the region of Mallara-desa (the area around northern Kerala and southern Karnataka). Kala Krsnadasa was a simple and gentle brahmana yet his intelligence became polluted in the association of the gypsies and he became attracted to women. Sri Chaitanya Mahaprabhu being the ideal sannyasi cannot keep the company of persons who are attracted by women and thus when He returned to Jaganatha Puri He lodged a complaint about the character of Kala Krsnadasa before Sarvabhauma Bhattacarya and rejected him. The first lesson that Sri Chaitanya Mahaprabhu is teaching us in this incident is that as long as one is in this material world one should never deviate from the strict principles of pure devotional service. Maya is very strong and the only safety for a devotee in this world is to constantly stick to the lotus feet of Sri Chaitanya Mahaprabhu. Kala Krsnadasa was a brahmin who was being given the chance to associate personally with Sri Chaitanya Mahaprabhu. We do not find mention anywhere such as in the Gaur-ganodesh-dipika by Kavi Karnapur, that Kala Krsnadasa was an eternal associate of the Lord who had descended from Krsnaloka to assist the Lord in His pastimes. Thus it can be understood that Kala Krsnadasa was not an eternally liberated soul who fell down from the Lords association but rather he was a candidate from this material world and thus he was still susceptible to maya's influence. Had he been an eternal associate of the Lord his "fall down" could only have taken place due to yogamaya not mahamaya. Even if one has the personal association of Sri Chaitanya Mahaprabhu, or has become a liberated soul, as long as one still has a material body and is in this material world one should not consider oneself liberated and thus independent of the regulative principles of devotional service. Otherwise one will be captured by maya. This is the first lesson. However, Sri Chaitanya Mahaprabhu went immediately to the camp of the gypsies to reclaim His servant, Kala Krsnadasa. When this happened the gypsies tried to hurt Sri Chaitanya Mahaprabhu with various weapons. But the weapons which the gypsies tried to use against the Lord turned against them and began to cut them to pieces. Their arms, legs and heads were severed from their bodies. There were loud cries of pain and agony amidst which Sri Chaitanya Mahaprabhu grabbed His servant, Kala Krsnadasa, by the hair and saved him. The second lesson which is to be learned in this incident is that once having taken shelter of the Lords lotus feet the Lord always protects his devotees. Even if there is some accidental fall down on the part of a sincere devotee the Lord rectifies that immediately. api cet su-duracaro, bhajate mam ananya-bhak sadhur eva sa mantavyah, samyag vyavasito hi sah ksipram bhavati dharmatma, sasvac-chantim nigacchati kaunteya pratijanihi, na me bhaktah pranasyati "Even if one commits the most abominable action, if he is engaged in devotional service he is to be considered saintly because he is properly situated in his determination. He quickly becomes righteous and attains lasting peace. O son of Kunti, declare it boldly that My devotee never perishes." Sri Chaitanya Mahaprabhu went there immediately to save Kala Krsnadasa from maya. In effect Sri Chaitanya Mahaprabhu did not allow Kala Krsnadasa to give up His association even though he had been bewildered by maya. After that it was almost one year before the Lord and Kala Krsnadasa returned to Jaganatha Puri. During that time Kala Krsnadasa continued to serve Sri Chaitanya Mahaprabhu both day and night. After returning to Puri, then the Lord rejected Kala Krsnadasa from His personal association. The Lord did this in keeping with His high standards as a sannyasi. The third lesson to learn in this incident is that the Lord's devotees are even more merciful than the Lord Himself. When Kala Krsnadasa was rejected by Sri Chaitanya Mahaprabhu he thus received the mercy of four devotees namely; Nityananda Prabhu, Jagadananda Pandit, Mukunda, and Damodara. The devotees of the Lord are more merciful than the Lord Himself. Sometimes the Lord is very hard or strict whereas the devotees are more inclined to show mercy. It is said, vajrad api kathorani, mrduni kusumad api lokottaranam cetamsi, ko nu vijnatum isvarah "The hearts of those above common behavior are sometimes harder than a thunder bolt and sometimes softer than a flower. How can one accommodate such contradictions in great personalities?" In many incidents Sri Chaitanya Mahaprabhu showed His "harder than a thunderbolt" heart in sometimes neglecting His devotees like Sarvabhauma Bhattacharya when he fainted on the road or in preparing to punish the rascals like Jagai and Madhai for their offence. However, in many of these cases Sri Nityananda Prabhu was there to show Supreme Mercy. Thus was the case with Kala Krsnadasa who not only got the mercy of Nityananda Prabhu but of many other eternal associates of Sri Chaitanya Mahaprabhu also. At that time Nityananda Prabhu, Jagadananda Pandit, Mukunda, and Damodara devised a plan and after taking Sri Chaitanya Mahaprabhu's permission Kala Krsnadasa was sent to Bengal to inform all the devotees that the Lord had returned from South India. First Kala Krsnadasa went to the home of Mother Saci and then to the house of Sri Adwaita Acharya. Kala Krsnadasa informed all the devotees about the Lord's return from South India as well as in great detail all about the Lord's travels. Kala Krsnadasa brought great pleasure to all the Vaishnavas and a great festival was held at Sri Adwaita's house. In this way by the mercy of the devotees Kala Krsnadasa continued to engage in the service of Sri Chaitanya Mahaprabhu. It should be remembered also that due to the continued services of Kala Krsnadasa the narrations about the Lords tour of South India were available for recording in the Sri Chaitanya-caritamrta. Even the narration of how the Lord delivered Kala Krsnadasa from the gypsies. Those narrations continue to enliven the devotees even up to the present day. Thus the service of Kala Krsnadasa continues. I have mentioned three beneficial lessons for all devotees of Sri Chaitanya Mahaprabhu to follow in regard to the Lord rejecting Kala Krsnadasa. However, the idea that the incident of Kala Krsnadasa supports the Iskcon misconception that the jiva falls from Vaikuntha or Goloka Vrindavana is not acceptable. We should not think that the Lord has a hatred toward His devotee. On the contrary even if there is some defect in the devotee the Lord does not take that into consideration. All that exists between the Lord and His pure devotees are mutual feelings of love. It is not possible for the pure devotee to envy the Lord nor is it possible for Krsna to reject His pure devotee. Whenever such dealings do appear to take place it should be understood to be the workings of yogamaya not mahamaya. Nothing is more dear to a devotee than Krsna and nothing is more dear to Krsna than His devotee (na me bhakta priya janah). What more can we say than this.
- November 5, 2004
THE ATOMIC RAY

Pankaja_Dasa posted a topic in Spiritual Discussions

THE ATOMIC RAY by Swami B.G. Narasingha Question: What is the constitutional position of the jiva ? Answer: In the Chaitanya-caritamrta we find this statement; jivera svarupa haya krsnera nitya dasa krsnera tatastha sakti bhedabheda prakasa "The constitutional position of the jiva is that of an eternal servant of Krishna. The jiva belongs to the marginal potency of Krishna and as such the jiva is considered a manifestation simultaneously one and different from Krishna." The jiva is called tatastha-sakti or the marginal potency of Godhead. Krishna's potencies are classified into three categories; antaranga-sakti the plane of Divinity, Vaikuntha, tatastha-sakti the marginal entities known as jivas, and bahiranga-sakti the world of Maya, material illusion. The tatastha-sakti, marginal plane, is located on the line of demarcation between the plane of Maya and Vaikuntha. Marginal means that the jiva has got adaptability to either side — to Maya or to Divinity. Maya is the land of exploitation and Divinity or Vaikuntha is the land of dedication. The tatastha or marginal plane is the brahman effulgence, the bodily effulgence of Maha Vishnu and it is living and growing. That brahman effulgence is the outer covering of the Vaikuntha planets and it is the source of infinite jivas. Brahman is the marginal plane of non differentiation. That plane is the unconcentrated principle of sat, cit, ananda, existence, consciousness, and bliss. At this stage we find that the jiva is an atomic ray or particle of non differentiated character. The concentrated form of sat, cit, ananda is Sri Krishna the Entity of Absolute Concentrated Intensity. The living beings, jivas, are His separated parts, vibhinnamsa-jivas. Thus the jivas have inherited a minute proportion of Krishna's qualities; therefore, the jiva is an embodiment of perception, the perceiver, egoism, the enjoyer, the thinker, and the doer. The constitutional distinction between Krishna and the jiva is that Krishna is Almighty while the jiva is atomic. From that stage, a plain sheet of uniform consciousness, individual conscious units of dedication grow. These units of consciousness, jivas, are endowed with seed adaptability towards both the spiritual and material worlds without ever having had participation or experience of either. It is not that non differentiation is the origin of differentiation as conceived by the Mayavada philosophers. But because the marginal position is on the verge of the higher eternal potency, swarupa-sakti, differentiation manifests in that plane of uniformity. Swarupa-sakti is a substance of eternal differentiation and variegatedness. Swarupa-sakti means the internal potency and both the tatastha-sakti and the antaranga-sakti belong to the superior internal potency of swarupa-sakti. The bahiranga-sakti belongs to the external potency, maya, which is only a shadow reflection of reality. Strictly speaking the jiva is marginal and this means that he is in a position to analyze adaptability only. He can go towards the spiritual world and he can come towards the material world. But his ability is minute. In that state the jiva is left to exercise free will. Because the jiva is a conscious unit he has free will. Without free will it is simply matter. Free will is all important but because the jiva is atomic his free will or discretion to analyze adaptability is defective. He may analyze correctly or not. In the case of correct analysis of his adaptability the jiva can become a member of the eternal world of service to Godhead, nitya-siddha, eternally perfect. Or in the case of incorrect analysis of his adaptability the jiva falls down to the material world. The question arises that why didn't Krishna endow the jiva with perfect discretion so he would make the proper analysis of his adaptability? If this were so then certainly all the jivas would at once come to the spiritual world and this would create a compulsion among the jivas. Compulsion means interfering with free will. But free will is guaranteed. Some are coming to this side and some are going to that side. A jiva who is falling down from the marginal plane does not directly come in contact with matter. The jiva first comes to the stage of cidabhasa. Before pure consciousness can evolve to material consciousness it must pass through a hazy stage of consciousness called cidabhasa. In the stage of cidabhasa the jiva becomes conditioned and is thus able to enter material existence. Cidabhasa means preparation for a life in the land of misconception. When there is creation again the fallen jiva is impregnated into a material universe by the glance of Maha Vishnu. To analyze the particular details of the history of the jiva is unnecessary. We are concerned only with how the transformation of material consciousness springs from pure consciousness. The residents of Vaikuntha and Goloka Vrindavana are also seen to come to the material world but that is only in the case of lila, to assist the Lord in His pastimes or to carry out His mission. The Vaikuntha servitors come here and when their work is over they return. Such servants of the Lord, like Jaya and Vijaya and others, even when they come to the material world are never considered fallen souls because they are never forgetful of their actual position. The fallen souls of this world fall down from the marginal position within the brahman effulgence, never from Vaikuntha. If one wants to argue that the jiva falls down to this material world from eternal lila with Krishna in the spiritual world, then that is tantamount to Mayavada philosophy because that suggests the fallibility of the Vaikuntha plane. The Vaishnava acharyas never admit to even a remote chance of fallibility in Vaikuntha what to speak of Goloka Vrindavana. The residents of the Vaikuntha planets do not have any awareness of material existence, of the worlds of exploitation, enjoyment and suffering. The material worlds actually have no existence other than being a covered state of pure consciousness of the jiva. The residents of Vaikuntha being always in pure Krishna consciousness do not have any experience of matter. With regards to understanding spiritual subject matters like the origin of the jiva, the nature of Krishna and the nature of the spiritual world, a jiva in bondage is regrettably very slow in these matters. Understanding spiritual subjects largely depends upon the jiva's adhikari or acquired qualifications. Unfortunately, due to his meager adhikari and limited experience the jiva all to often wants to understand spiritual matters in relation to his mundane material consciousness. What is brahman, what is Krishna, what is Vaikuntha, what is swarupa-sakti? What are all these things is unknown and unknowable to the conditioned jiva. Even those in the neophyte stage of devotional service, bhakti-yoga, can not have a transcendental understanding of these subjects due to their still being covered by maya's influence. The neophyte is all to often dependent upon crutches like paintings and pictures for his understanding which although giving him some direction nevertheless leave him hanging in the mundane conception. For example: We have seen the artistic rendition of the birth of Brahma on the stem of the lotus which springs from the navel of Garbhodakshai Vishnu. There the lotus is red or yellow color, large in size, and having a very long stem. Thus the neophyte is left to conceive of that lotus in relation to his experience of a lotus in this world. What is the actual reality of that "lotus" having sprung from the navel of Vishnu and being the birth place of Brahma the artist can not actually inform us. But the conception of the neophyte becomes fixed in the conception that the substance of that lotus is also like the lotus of this world. In his commentary on Brahma-samhita Srila Bhaktivinode Thakura has described that "golden" lotus as cidabhasa, "the hazy aspect or reflection of Divinity.That lotus, he says, "is the residence of the aggregate jivas." So what is that lotus? Is it simply a "lotus" or is it something more? We must try to think more deeply into these matters. The point I am trying to make is that the "lotus", the brahman effulgence, the Vaikuntha planets or any other thing having spiritual existence can not be properly conceived when simply referenced to its mundane counter parts in the material world. Realization is required. The sastra and the self realized devotees have tried to explain the realized truths about the Absolute Reality from different angles of vision for the purpose of helping the conditioned jiva to awaken his original pure consciousness.. Still some jivas are insistent on dragging their mundane mind and intellect to the attempt at understanding Reality. Thus the conditioned jiva is very slow to catch the real idea given in sastra and by pure devotees. To enter into proper understanding of the sastra and revealed truths spoken by pure devotees the jiva has to put aside all mundane considerations and experiences. Only by advancement in pure devotional service are the Pure and Unalloyed Truths regarding the Absolute Reality revealed to a jiva. Argument and word jugglery are useless attempts at realizing the truth. On the other hand, to form a single line of thought or a single criterion by which all jivas can understand the truth is also difficult. And it is for this reason that the sastra and the acharyas have expressed many angles of vision to enlighten the jiva, some of which even appear contradictory. However, the more the eyes of the jiva are anointed and adorned with the salve of Love, the more the Absolute Truth, Sri Krishna will reveal Himself. The constitutional position of the jiva is to serve Krishna. As such a jiva is never satisfied in material existence despite his wandering from the post of Brahma down to that of an insignificant ant. When by the grace of Krishna the wandering jiva meets a bona fide representative of Krishna he can get the seed of eligibility, bhakti-lata-bija, and thus he can attain to the stage of jivan-mukta or that of a liberated soul from material existence. This is what I have understood regarding the constitutional position of the jiva as I have heard it from the sastra and from the lips of my spiritual masters.
- November 5, 2004
Deliberations on the origin of the soul

Pankaja_Dasa posted a topic in Spiritual Discussions

Jaiva Dharma ~ Chapter 15 Deliberation About the Proof of the Jiva's Spiritual Locus-Standi [ Deliberations on the origin of the soul ] by Srila Bhaktivinode Thakura -- Translated from the original Bengali by leading Bengali devotee scholars; disciples of and under the direction of Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Thakura -- Published by Sri Gaudiya Math Madras -- This day Vrajanatha reached the Srivasangana rather a little early, when the devotees of Sri Godruma called at the Srivasangana just before evening in order to have a darsan of the evening service of aratrika (waving light and frankincense). Sri Premadas Paramahamsa Babaji, Vaishnavadasa, Advaitadasa, etc., took their seats in the arbor before the aratrika. Seeing the effusion of sentiment of these Vaishnavas of Sri Godruma, Vrajanatha thought within himself: "I shall have my object accomplished in association with them." Seeing his amiable face and devotional attitude they all blessed him. Within a short while, when they had left for Sri Godruma towards the south old Raghunatha Babaji Mahasaya noticed that tears were rolling down from Vrajanatha's eyes in an incessant flow. He had cherished a strange degree of affection and he asked him: "O darling, why are you shedding tears?" Vrajanatha humbly submitted: "O master, my mind has gone out of order as the result of your instructions and association; everything in our worldly life seems to be pith less and unsubstantial. I have grown impatient to seek protection at the Feet of Sri Gaura. Today a question has arisen in my mind, viz., who am I in reality and why have I come into this world?" Babaji Mahasaya: "You have glorified me with this question of yours. When the truly auspicious day arrives for a jiva, it is this question that he puts first of all. There will linger no more doubt in your mind when you will listen to the fifth shloka of the Dasamula and its meaning. Just as sparks come out of a blazing fire, so also from Sri Hari, the chit-Sun, come out the innumerable jivas, atomic chits. Though they are not different from Sri Hari(in respect of their chit constitution), yet the jives are ever separate from Him. The eternal difference between God and the jives is this, that God is the Entity due to Whose special Virtue the maya -potency is His ever-controlled servitor, He being by nature her Lord: whereas he, who is by nature capable of coming under the maya prakriti, even when free, is the jiva." Vrajanatha: "The decision is excellent, no doubt. I am desirous of knowing its supporting authority from the Vedas; though the words of the Lord are as good as the Vedas, yet when they are substantiated by extracts from the Upanishads, people will be bound to admit them as conclusive." Babaji: "Several Vedic statements corroborate this truth; I am citing only a few of them; just listen. We have in the Brihadaranyaka: Just as small sparks come out from fire, so do all jivas come out of God " and "This entity (jiva) has two places, viz., this (material) region and the other (chit) region; there is a third place border tatastha region forming the juncture of the two; staying at that place of the juncture, he sees both the regions, this one and the other one." Herein has been stated the border characteristic of the jiva-potency. This Br.up says again: "just as a big fish in a river at one time visits its Eastern bank, at another the Western one so also does the jiva move to both the sides, viz., that of dream (nescience) and the other of wakefulness (sentience)." Vrajanatha: "What is the meaning of 'tatastha' approved by the Vedanta philosophy?" Babaji: "The line between the water of a river and the land on the bank is called the ' tata'. The land is contiguous to the water; where is then the 'tata'? The 'tata' is only like a thread discriminating the land from the water. The 'tata' is a very fine line of distinction which is not discernible with the gross eyes. If the chit world is compared to water and the mayika or material world to land, then the 'tata' is the fine line dividing the one from the other; the place of the jiva-potency is that line of juncture between the two worlds. Just as there are glowing atoms in the sun-rays, so also are the jivas; they may have a vision of the chit world on the one side and on the other this world as built by maya. The chit-potency of God is boundless, so is His maya-potency also enormous; between them are there the innumerable minute jivas. The jivas emanate from the tatastha shakti (border-potency) of Sri Krishna; so is the nature too tatastha (border-potency) of Sri Krishna." Vrajanatha: Of what sort is that 'tatastha' nature?" Babaji: "In it vision can be had of both the sides from the midway position between the two worlds. The capability of coming under the control of both the potencies (chit and mayika) is the tatastha nature. The 'tata' (line of demarcation) can come into the river being dug out by the force of water; again when the land is hardened, the 'tata' becomes land. If a jiva turns his vision towards Sri Krishna, he becomes confirmed within Krishna-shakti (i.e., chit) but when he turns towards maya and turns away from Krishna (i.e. becomes apathetic towards Him), he falls into maya's snare to be fastened in it. This nature is 'tatastha'. Vrajanatha: "Has maya anything to do with the jiva's constitution?" Babaji: "No, the jiva is constituted of chit material; being exceedingly atomic he is domitable by maya for want of the chit strength. In his constitution there is no trace of maya." Vrajanatha: "I heard from my professor that Chit Brahman being enveloped by maya has become the jiva; just as the unlimited sky becomes Ghakasa i.e., the sky of the pot when covered in it, so also the jiva that is Brahman by nature has become such being covered by maya. What does this mean?" Babaji: "This is only mayavada. How can maya touch Brahman? If you say that Brahman has no potency, then how can there be His proximity to maya? When the potency of maya is non-existent? Brahman cannot undergo such a miserable condition under the cover of maya. If you keep the para shakti (essential potency) of Brahman awake, then how can maya, who is an insignificant potency, defeat the chit potency to create jiva out of Brahman? Brahman is infinite: how can He again be partitioned into portions as the great sky into skies in pots? maya's action on Brahman cannot be admitted. Maya has no authority over the creation of jivas; though the jiva is en atom, yet he is superior to maya. " Vrajanatha: "Some time before, a professor said that the jiva is the reflection of Brahman. Just as the sun is reflected on water, so is Brahman reflected on maya to become the jiva. What does this too, mean?" Babaji: "This, too, is mayavada. Brahman has no limit; an unlimited thing cannot be reflected. The Vedas do not approve of the confinement of Brahman within bounds. The theory of reflection is very abominable." Vrajanatha: "On another occasion a world conqueror sannyasi said that the jiva is not a real entity; the conceit as jiva has arisen out of illusion; when illusion goes off, there remains only one undivided Brahman. What does this ,too, mean?" Babaji: "This, to, is mayavada and is without foundation. According to the statement in the Sruti 'ekamev advitiyam what more can be had than Brahman? When them is nothing else than Brahman where from does the illusion come? And whose is this illusion? If you say that it of Brahman, then you make Brahman insignificant and keep Him not as Brahman. If a separate existence is admitted of the name of 'illusion', then the truth of 'advaya-jnana' is clashed with." Vrajanatha: "A scholarly Brahmana of this Navadvipa established that there is no jiva but only one Brahman who in his dream creates the weal and woe; when his dream is over, he is Brahman. What type of statement is this?" Babaji: "This, too is mayavada. Transformation from the state of Brahman to that of jiva and the dream - how can all these be substantiated? Citing examples of the conception of silver in a pearl or that of a rope appearing as a snake the mayavadin cannot maintain advaya-jnana, these webs of tricks have been prepared for enchanting and fascinating the people." Vrajanatha: "It must be admitted that in the creation of the jiva soul maya has nothing to do; I do also understand that maya can exercise her power over the jiva." Now my question is whether the chit-potency has framed the jiva with the tatastha (border) natural?" Babaji: "No, the chit-potency is Krishna's plenary potency; Whatever she produces is eternally accomplished; the jiva is not so eternally accomplished; when he becomes accomplished by practices (sadhana-siddha), he enjoys bliss like those eternally accomplished entities. The four kinds of confidantes of Sri Radha (to be described hereafter) are eternally accomplished; their bodies are about the same, with slight variations, with that of Sri Radhika who is essentially the chit-shakti. The jivas have grown out of the jiva-shakti of Sri Krishna. Chit-shakti is Sri Krishna's full (plenary) shakti, whereas the jiva-shakti is the incomplete shakti. From the plenary potency are produced complete entities, but from the incomplete potency have grown the jivas as atomic chit. Krishna manifests entities of different types in accordance with the kind of the shakti He applies. When established in His essential chit-shakti He reveals His essential Nature as Sri Krishna Himself on the one hand and on the other as Sri Narayana, the Lord of Vaikuntha. When he desired to have His adherent attendance ' nitya parshada' servitors in His Transcendental plane Goloka- Vrindavana Vaikuntha, etc. He through Baladeva created those Eternal Parshada as nitya-mukta jivas at those divine worlds. He reveals the three Forms of Vishnu, viz., Karanodakasayi, Kshirodakasayi and Garbhodakasayi. At Vraja He reveals His own Nature as Krishna with chit in fullness; as Baladeva, He reveals the eternally free associate jivas for the performance of the eight kinds of service of Himself as Sri Krishna. Again at Paravyoma (Vaikuntha) He, as Sankarshana, reveals the eternally free associate jivas for the performance of the eight kinds of service to Sri Narayana. Maha Vishnu, the incarnation of Sankarshana, establishing Himself in the heart of jiva-shakti as Paramatma, creates the jiva-souls of tatastha shakti. These jivas are susceptible to the influence of maya. Till by dint of God's Grace they get shelter under the hladini (bliss-giving) shakti they are liable to be overcome by maya. Innumerable jivas, overcome fastened by maya, are attached to the three gunas (sattva, rajah, tamah) of maya. As such, the conclusion is that it is the jiva-shakti that begets the jivas, and not the chit-shakti." Vrajanatha: "I have already heard that the chit-world is eternal and so are also jivas. How are, then, the growth, creation and revelation of eternal things possible? If they are revealed at some time and were unrevealed previously, how, then can their eternity be possible?" Babaji: "The time and space as you feel in the material world are different from the time and space of the chit world. The time of the mundane world is divided into three periods, past, present and future; whereas the time in the chit-world is ever present as undivided. All the events relating to chit are conceived of as present. Whatever we describe is under the jurisdiction of material time and space; so while we say - ' the jivas were created', ' the jivas then were fastened by maya', 'the chit-world was revealed', 'there is no function of maya in the constitution of jivas, but that of chit,- then there is the influence of material time over our statement; the sort of description is inevitable in this fastened condition of ours. For this reason, in all our descriptions relating to jivas and chit, we cannot get rid of the influence of the mundane time,- the past, the present and the future come of themselves into them. While having a conception of the inner meaning of such descriptions, the truly discriminating judges conceive of the application of the ever present time. My darling, you should be very cautious while deliberating over these things and feel the presence of chit, having thrown off the unavoidable detestableness of words. All the Vaishnavas say that the jiva souls have been fastened by maya for the forgetfulness of their own nature, but they all know that though the jivas are eternal entities, they are of two kinds, viz. eternally fastened and eternally free. Such statements are due to the human intelligence being subject to errors and omissions. But a sedate person forms a conception of the transcendental truth by means of chit-samadhi. Our statements are material, whatever we speak about is interspersed with the dirt of words, but you will feel what the truth is. Argumentations have no footing here, for it is vain to apply them to inscrutable truths. I know that you will not be able to realize this truth in a moment. The more you culture about chit affairs the more will be evident the difference of chit from matter. Your body is material, all the functions of the body are material, but in reality, you are not matter, you are atomic chit (sentiment) entity. The more you know about yourself, the more will you feel your essential nature to be superior to the material world. You will not be benefited, if only, I tell you this or you hear it from me. The more you rouse up your chit character by means of the culture of Harinama, the better will you get a conception of the chit world. The speech and the mind, both have their origin relating to matter; they cannot touch the chit affairs by great exertions. The Sruti said: "From whom (Brahman) words recede back with the mind without getting Him." I advise you not to ask the decision about this of any one; feel it within yourself. I only give you the hint." Vrajanatha: " If the jiva is the atomic ray of the chit (sentient) sun like the sparks of the blazing fire, what is then the function of the jiva-shakti?' Babaji: "Krishna is self-effulgent like the blazing fire or the sun, within the range of the chit-Sun, everything is full chit concern; outside it, the rays radiate far and wide. A pencil is a molecule of the svarupa-shakti, and the rays within it are its atoms; and the jivas are such atoms. The svarupa-shakti displays the region within the orb of the Sun; the function of the region outside the orb is that of the jiva-shakti which is the atomic part of the chit-shakti. So only the jiva-shakti functions concerning the jivas. According to the Sruti, which says His (God's) para ( supreme) shakti is of different sorts, the para-shakti which is the chit-shakti, coming of its own regions as jiva-shakti is ever displaying the eternal jiva like the rays of the Sun in the border region between the chit region and the maya's region." Vrajanatha: "The blazing fire is material, the sun too, is material; the sparks, too are material. Why are these material things employed as examples in the case of chit-tattva (truth relating to chit)?" Babaji: "I have already told you that whenever we have to speak about chit affairs with words that are material, the dirt of matter must be there; so it is under compulsion that such examples have got to be cited. As there is no other way, we have to explain chit things by using the words ' fire' ' sun ' etc. In reality, Krishna is quite different from and far superior to the sun; the region o' chit is surpassingly superior to the brilliant solar orb; the pencil of the sun and its minute rays are extremely inferior to Krishna's pencil and rays. Even so, those examples are used considering only the points of similarity, the examples show the points only partially and do not apply to all cases. The functions of the sun and the sun-rays are to reveal their own beauty and other things, and only these too indicate the self-revealing character and the character of revealing others with reference to the chit-tattva; but the power of ignition and the materiality of the sun are not applicable as examples to chit affairs. When we say that milk is like water, we mean only the liquidity of milk; otherwise can the milk, which has in it all the characteristics of water, be milk proper? Therefore examples explain only the character of a particular side of things, not that of all the sides." Vrajanatha: "How is it possible that the pencil of the chit-sun and the atomic rays there within, though not separate from the sun, are yet ever different?" Babaji: "In the material world when one thing comes out of another, it either becomes totally severed from that, or remains adhered to that, as it is the property of matter. When an egg comes out of the mother-bird, it remains separate from her and no more keeps within her. The nails and hair on the body of a man though grown out of it keep together with him till they are clipped off. In chit affairs there is some specialty. In respect of whatever have come out from the chit sun, all are simultaneously both distinct from Him and also non-distinct. Just as the solar pencil and the rays coming out from the sun remain the same, so also the pencil from Krishna, viz., jiva-shakti and the atomic rays viz., the jivas, coming out from Krishna-sun, ever remain non-separate from Him; again even being non-separate, different jivas, getting different particles of independent volition, ever keep separate from Krishna. Therefore the truth of jivas being both non-distinct and distinct from Krishna is an eternally accomplished fact. This is the special feature of chit affairs. The savants cite only a partial example from matter. It is thus; there is a big lump of gold; a bangle is made of a bit out of it; the bangle is non-distinct from the lump of gold, in respect of its being gold but it is distinct from the lump of gold, in respect of its being the bangle and not the lump. This example does not apply in all respects; but it functions in a particular way; in respect of being both chit, the chit-sun and the chit jiva are non distinct, but in respect of their being respectively the Plenary chit and the atomic chit, there is distinction between them according to circumstances. The example of ghatakasa (sky scape in the pitcher) and mahakasa (fermamental sky) is quite inapplicable to the chit-tattva. Vrajanatha: "If chit (sentiment) object and mundane matter are generically different from each other, then how can either be the proper example of the other?" Babaji: "There is no such distinction of classes between chit and jada (mundane) matter, as there are different classes in mundane matter, which the followers of the Nyaya-system of Philosophy call Nitya (permanent). I have already said that it is only chit which is the real thing and jada is its uikara (vitiated state). There are many similarities between a pure thing and its vitiation. The vitiated thing becomes different from the pure thing; yet the similarity lingers in many respects. Ice being a vitiated form of water becomes a different thing from water, but similarity still exists in respect of the properties like coldness, etc. though such similarity does not exist between the cold and the hot water; but they are similar regarding their common property of liquidity. Thus in a vitiated thing there remains some common property or another, of the pure thing. So though the mundane world is the vitiation of the chit world, a chit subject may be deliberated on with the help of an example from a mundane matter, utilizing the similarity of a chit property available in such matter. Again adopting the principle of the vision of the Arundhati star (a small star in the group of the pleiads in the constellation of Taurus, visible with fine discernment by ascertaining its position with the gross material, vision), - the subtle properties of a chit matter are conceived with the deliberation of the crude and perverted matter of the mundane world. Sri Krishna's lila is totally transcendental or supra-mundane; there is no stench of mundane matter in it. The sports of Vraja as described in the Srimad Bhagavatam are all transcendental; and when the affairs described therein are read among a group of men, they produce effect upon them according to their respective competence; the members of the audience, who are entirely attached to mundane matter, hear about the activities of the ordinary dramatic hero and heroine with a relish of rhetorical embellishment of material subjects, those of an intermediate competence adopt the principle of the vision of the Arundhati star to see the sportiveness of sentience in the proximity of material descriptions; whereas those of the superior competence dive in the pure relishable sentiment of the sportiveness of sentience beyond the scope of mundane matter. What other means are there for the proper training of jivas than the application of those principles? How can any nice resort be possible for the fettered jivas, in which the power of speech does not work and the mental power admits defeat? No means is to be found except some examples with good similarities and the principle of visualizing the star Arundhati. In mundane matters only will be noticed either distinction or non-distinction, but that is not the case with the Supreme entity. Inscrutable simultaneous distinction and non-distinction must be admitted between Krishna and His jiva-potency.'' Vrajanatha: "Wherein lies the distinction between Supreme God and jiva souls?" Babaji: "At first I shall explain the eternal non-distinction and show the eternal distinction thereafter. God is, in His Nature, Sentience, Enjoyer, Thinker, Self-manifest, Manifestor of others, Soul acting at pleasure. The jiva has got all these characteristics. Being the Possessor of Plenary Potency, God has these properties to the utmost extent; whereas the jiva being the possessor of only atomic potency, these properties are present in him to a minute extent. Though there is a distinction regarding the essential nature and character, regarding the possession of those properties yet there is a want of distinction between God and jiva. Being the possessor of His own potency to the fullest extent, God is the Master of Svarupa shakti (natural potency), jiva-shakti and maya-shakti; potency is His servitor under control, He is the Master of potency, His potency acts at His will - this is the essential Nature of God. Though the jiva has all the properties of God in minute jots, he is subject to maya. The word ' maya's used in the Dasamula (vice its fifth shloka)- in the beginning of this chapter) does not denote only jada (mundane) maya, here it means Svarupa-shakti. From its derivation, viz., by which measurement is made, maya is the name of that shakti which makes Krishna known in the chit world, jiva-world and mundane world, as such, maya here denotes Svarupa-shakti and not jada-shakti. Krishna is the Master of maya, whereas the jiva is under her control. So the Svetasvara Upanishad has said thus. "From all this diversity (which the Veda describes) the Master of maya creates the universe and the other (viz. jiva) is confined in it by maya. Know maya as His Prakriti (Nature) and the Master of maya is Supreme God. All this universe is pervaded by His shakti ". In this sentence of the Veda, the word. Mayee (Master of maya) denotes Krishna, the Controller of maya, Prakriti means plenary potency. These attributes as adored by all and the Nature are the special properties of God; they are not present in the jiva, even when liberated, he cannot get these attributes. The Brahma-Sutra says: "The free jiva souls are able to perform all things excepting the affairs of the universe,-viz., its creation, sustenance, restraint, etc." In it has been admitted that there is eternal distinction between God and the jiva. This eternal distinction is not imaginary, but eternally true, this distinction will not come to an end in any stage. On this account, just know it to be a fundamental statement that ' the jiva is the eternal servant to Krishna." Vrajanatha: "If the eternal bheda (distinction) is the accomplished fact, then how can the abheda (non-distinction) be admitted? Shall we then have to admit that there is a stage called nirvana (annihilation)?" Babaji: "No, my darling, that is not the case, in no stage is the jiva non-different from (i.e., identical with) God." Vrajanatha: "Then why have you stated the doctrine of achintya-bheda-bheda inscrutable simultaneous distinction and non-distinction?" Babaji: "With regard to chit-dharma (sentient character) there is eternal abheda between Krishna and the jiva, but in svarupa (essential nature) there is eternal bheda. In spite of the eternal abheda, the conception of the bheda is eternal. Though the abheda svarupa is an accomplished fact, yet there is not any indication there of relating to any state. Whenever there is an indication according to a particular stage, the manifestation of the eternal bheda is the stronger. For example, if a house is simultaneously said to be ' without Devadatta and with Devadatta,' then the eternal indication of its being with Devadatta, will ever continue, even though according to some consideration it may be without Devadatta'. I shall cite another example from the mundane world,- the sky is a mundane matter, even if there be a receptacle of the sky, too, in spite of that receptacle, as there is the indication of the sky alone, so the indication of the nitya (eternal) bheda that is there in the abheda entity, is the only indication of the thing." Vrajanatha: "Then, please, tell me a little more clearly about the eternal nature of the jiva." Babaji: "The jiva is anu-chaitanya (atomic sentience), endowed with the attribute of jnana (consciousness), predicable by the term 'aham' (ego), enjoyer, thinker and comprehender. The jiva has his eternal nature; that nature is astral. Just as in the gross body, the hands, legs, eyes, nose, ears etc., being properly arranged, have manifested the crude nature; so the atomic sentient body, perfect in every feature, has manifested the atomic sentient nature; and that is the jiva's eternal nature. When he is fettered by maya, his natural body becomes covered with two phenomenal bodies, the one is called linga-sarira (subtle body), and the other the gross body. The subtle body is a disguise over the body of the atomic sentient nature; that subtle body is unavoidable from the time that the jiva is fettered to the time that he is emancipated. At the time of taking other births only the gross physical bodies undergo changes, but not the subtle body. The subtle body (of a bounder soul) is only one; at the time of changing a gross body, it takes away with it all the desires regarding karma made by it before accepting the subsequent body. The nature of a jiva who has got a new body is formed according to the instinct transmitted from the previous birth grown out of the desires thereof. And he gets his caste according to that nature. Karma or action ensues according to the varnashrama (caste and stage of life), and after death he again gets a similar course. The first cover for the eternal nature is the subtle body ( or mind) and the second cover is the gross (physical body)." Vrajanatha: "What is the difference between the nitya sarira (eternal body) and the linga-sarira ( subtle body)?" Babaji: "The eternal body is of atomic chit (sentience), blemishless and really predicable by aham (ego). The subtle body is constituted of the three vitiations, viz. manah (mind), buddhi (intellect) and ahamkara ( egotism). Vrajanatha: "Are the mind, intellect and egotism of the mundane nature? If they are so termed how can their sentient functions be performed?" Babaji: "Just look into the dictum of the Gita. "God with His chit-shakti (sentient potency) has two prakritis (shaktis). viz. para (superior) and apara (inferior); here the para-prakriti has been known as jiva-shakti and the apara-prakriti as jada (mundane material) or maya-shakti. The jiva-shakti is chitkana (atomic sentience) and, for this reason, it is called para or superior. maya shakti is jada and as such it is celled apara. The jiva is different from the inferior potency, which has in it eight coarse things viz., the five maha-bhutas (primary elements) and manah (mind) buddhi (intellect) and ahamkara (egotism). The last three are within jada prakriti and are therefore mundane matters; there is some appearance of jnana (sentience) in them; but it is not chit by nature, but of mundane matter. The mind places the affair of the knowledge of sensual objects on the images that it takes from mundane matter; this affair has its root in mundane matter and not in chit matter. The faculty that discriminates between good and bad relying on that knowledge is known as buddhi (intellect), that, too, has its root in mundane matter. And the egotism, too, arising out of the acceptance of that knowledge has mundane matter at its root and not the chit. These three, combined together, manifest a second nature of the jiva, related to mundane matter. The egotism of the subtle body of that nature of the jiva overcome with mundanity becomes strong enough to cover the egotism of the eternal nature. The egotism in the eternal nature connected with the chit-sun is eternal. In the stage of liberation, that egotism appears again. So long as the eternal body is almost hidden under the subtle body, the conceit of the connection with mundane matter remains strong, and consequently the conceit of connection with chit is almost extinct. The subtle body is too fine and therefore the gross body, covering it, makes it act. When the gross body covers the subtle body, then the egotism of the conceit of color and class of the gross body becomes the prevailing factor. Though the mind, intellect and egotism are of mundane nature, yet they have the conceit of knowledge, being the vitiated nature of the function of atma (soul). Vrajanatha: "Now I have understood that the eternal nature of the jiva is atomic chit and that in that nature there is elegance of the limbs made of atomic chit; when it is bound down (by maya), that elegance is covered by the subtle body; and then with the cover of the gross body, the nature of the jiva is subjected to much mundane vitiation. Now I beg to submit my question whether the jiva is entirely free from defects in the liberated state" Babaji: "Though the atomic chit is free from defect, it is imperfect, inasmuch as being extremely atomic, it is too weak. Under these circumstances, only this defect is seen in it, that the nature is capable of being almost extinct. The Srimad Bhagavatam has said, "O Lotus-eyed Lord, wisdom of one cannot be free from contamination without unalloyed devotion to Thee. Those treading the path of jnana or following the path of inductive process, devoid of an atom of devotion to They may think themselves liberated; on the contrary failing to adore Thy Lotus Feet, their minds ever remain impure although with great exertion and difficult efforts they might have attained a high stage nay. almost near liberation, but hurled down to the mundane plane because they have neglected to take recourse to Thy Divine Lotus Feet" As such, however ameliorated may a liberated jiva be the imperfection of his constitution will ever accompany him and this is the truth about jivas. It is for this reason that the Veda has said that "God is the Controller of maya, whereas the jiva is subject to the control of maya" being the tatastha shakti."
- November 5, 2004
Bodily Consciousness & Krsna Consciousness

Pankaja_Dasa posted a topic in Spiritual Discussions

Hare Krishna I had a wonderful conversation with this devotee. I edited the conversation a bit, because for anybody who has chats you know its not always on one line. So excuse the flaws just take the essence haribol. The devotee called Bhakta is senior Srila Prabhupada disciple. I changed his nick. Wasn't sure if he said it was ok to post his name. So I change for now. Sorry. _____________________________ Bhakta: I could understand something very heavy today. When consciousness is separated from the body...I mean to say when we are not of the bodily consciousness. Then we can experience that our body..our human body...is only one type of body..that we have had and before we had a different type of body consciousness is very small..compared to the universe it is easier to understand how.. we have had different bodies..when consciousness is detached from..our present condition. This makes you feel both..very humble..and protected by a higher power. Consciousness has nothing to do with the body. It is only occupying temporarily, sometimes we have mouse body or goat or demigod or human but human is best for KC and to meet bonafide guru meeting bonafide guru is highest gift of human life because then consciousness can be understood. Pankaja_dasa: Krsna consciousness? Bhakta: Yes, both self and Self, atma and paramatma and Bhagavan we think that our life is something important it revolves around the body. But our bodies change ..so what is the point? Pankaja_dasa: prabhuji so consciousness is just in whatever body you may have? Bhakta: yes, full consciousness but intelligence is not there in lower forms Pankaja_dasa: we are consciousness of this body? Bhakta: This intelligence is great gift only now is our intelligence there to understand God same consciousness is there is animal form but lower intelligence we were in animal form previously this can be understood when our consciousness is detached from our body consciousness is simply transmigrating human body is animal body. With developed intelligence We should see like that. Pankaja_dasa: Detached how? Bhakta: yes, vairagya if we can become detached now, then we can see the whole journey that we have been taking for so many lifetimes. Then we can truly give up this nonsense and surrender to Krsna. I am very grateful for this realization.... Pure, clear consciousness nothing to do with the mind or body ...soul all this self centered stuff becomes slackened when we are too much ignorant of our soul, then we are lost in our body and mind. Chanting the Holy Names..is the only way to raise our consciousness. IT is the means and the end. This is what Rupa Goswami states in Nectar of Devotion. Bhakti is practiced in both the conditioned and liberated state...very important point.... It is lifelong process of chanting day after day then we become in tune with the sound of Krsna's name miraculously we become in tune with God ! Pankaja_dasa: what's the relation between bodily consciousness and chanting? Bhakta: Consciousness is becoming separate from the body it is like the turtle the senses are withdrawing the consciousness is beginning to focus of Krsna more and more Krsna is more attractive then Maya so, we are becoming liberated. Pankaja_dasa: our real consciousness! Bhakta: O yes very much we are slowly returning Back to Home no matter what, we should chant every day even if we are dying or sick or happy no matter what every day we must chant because we do not know the arrangement when we shall die. This body has a limit of time So we want to leave this body in harmony with Krsna. Pankaja_dasa: ok let me ask, how is chanting krsna name same as krsna? Bhakta: Achintya part of the mystery. He is far away and near as well. We accept this mystery. We have faith Pankaja_dasa: Faith is key word? Bhakta: Yes, faith is Krsna. I give them the intelligence by which they may come to me BG Pankaja_dasa: chanting is like associating with lord yes? Bhakta: IF the sun is out and shining..no one has to tell me how nice it is. I am experiencing Directly....So when I chant, I feel Krsna that is the proof. Guru says it is so and I experience this truth. I have faith in him so I follow then I experience Pankaja_dasa: Guru knows krsna because Guru is spiritual we have only to have faith Bhakta: Yes, he has eyes. IF his eyes are open, then we should be guided by guru. Pankaja_dasa: How far does our consciousness stretch? Bhakta: Prabhupada says that everyone is MAD about their attachments, consciousness is pervading the body right now. I do not occupy your body nor do I occupy anyone else's body so I am limited but KRsna occupies all. PRabhupada says that we are dependent both now and when we are liberated. Pankaja_dasa: So it that achintya bheda bheda they speak of? Bhakta: No. Achintya is Krsna and how He is simultaneously one and different from everything. He pervades all but He is also outside of everything. That is stated in the Gita. That is His achintya. Pankaja_dasa: So Krsna consciousness means what then? Bhakta: To be conscious of Krsna and..to have a favourable relationship with Him. To surrender to Him and accept His shelter. Then, to engage our soul in His service. This is Krsna consciousness. Pankaja_dasa: Achintya bhedha bhedha is same yet different from Krsna So isn't our consciousness same and different? Bhakta: No, we are not same as Krsna...we are always different, same in quality but different in quantity ..both are spiritual but He is always greater then us. He is our shelter. KRsna has no shelter. Everything rests on Me like pearls strung on a thread BG. Our soul is so tiny Pankaja_dasa: So achintya bheda bheda refers to quantity? Bhakta: Apply Achintya to KRsna, not so much to us. Pankaja_dasa: yes Bhakta: He is all pervasive as brahman, He is localized as paramatma, He is person as Bhagavan Krsna. We are so tiny it aint funny. God is so powerful it aint funny. We are so controlled but we do not see this..we are taking on bodies...we are transmigrating. Who is doing this to us? What are we? GUru makes us stop and consider. We must get off this karmic train. We must deeply consider our situation .We are consciousness that has become contaminated by God's material energy. Pankaja_dasa: Only contaminated Bhakta: So either we remain here and take shelter of GOd's maya or we surrender to GOd and go Back to Home, to serve HIm Pankaja_dasa: So can be resolved Bhakta: Either case, we are servant. We are never, never master. BUT in Vrndavana, Krsna allows HImself to be controlled by His devotees. This is also achintya. Pankaja_dasa: you'd think well who want to be master anyway but that exactly what we're trying to do! Bhakta: Yes.. this is our disease we are misusing our independent free will. If we chant Hare Krsna, then we can change our karma Pankaja_dasa: can you explain why chanting What's so special about nama? Bhakta: Yes. Krsna has inconceivable potencies. That is what Gauranga has taught Rupa and Sanatana. He has divested all His potencies in His name. By chanting Hare Krsna we are associating with Krsna and all of His inconceivable potencies. Krsna is not limited. Chanting is the recommended religious process for this Age. We should have firm faith Pankaja_dasa: should we also have faith in chanting? Like we have faith we are souls. Bhakta: Krsna's name brings joy to everyone. Some accept and some reject. That is their choice but KRsna's name is the cause of joy. So, if we accept, then we are faithful. If we reject, then we are demoniac. On the battlefield, He blew His conchell. He brought joy to the hearts of the faithful and fear to the enemy. Faith is what keeps us on tract Back to Home...Like a shining beacon. Regular chanting is the battery. Even if we are not attracted, we should chant because GUru said we should. Even if our mind is saying no, we should chant. Pankaja_dasa: Why does the mind say no all the time? Bhakta: The mind is stupid...IT is deeply conditioned. It carries direction from the false ego and contaminated intellgience..but, later, the mind will settle down. It is harder to control then the wind BG but it will settle down and begin to like the chanting. _____________
- November 5, 2004
The Nightmare Begins

Pankaja_Dasa posted a topic in World Review

http://www.geocities.com/imilac2005/911.htm Bush anti-christ? Somebody gave me this site. Maybe Shivaji & Co will find it of interest ...me? I don't even know what day it is.
- November 4, 2004
- 1 reply
What are you going to do if Maya-devi hits you up ???

Pankaja_Dasa replied to krsna's topic in Spiritual Discussions

I was more attracted to Maharaja, mmm must be getting purified. Celebrate. !!!!
- November 4, 2004
- 12 replies
Hey Bro ,why do you stll want to take credit for Krsna's doing ???

Pankaja_Dasa replied to krsna's topic in Spiritual Discussions

Try and get your head around that. Forget achintya bheda bheda lol!
- November 4, 2004
- 3 replies
damodarastaka month

Pankaja_Dasa posted a topic in Spiritual Discussions

SRI DAMODARASTAKA (From Sri Padma Purana) (To be chanted regularly during the Damodara Month, the Fourth month of chaturmasya by offerering a lamp) namamisvaram sac-cid-ananda-rupam lasat-kundalam gokule bhrajamanam yasoda--bhiyolukhalad dhavamanam paramrstam atyantato drutya gopya rudantam muhur netra-yugmam mrjantam karambhoja-yugmena satanka-netram muhuh svasa-kampa-trirekhanka-kantha- sthita-graivam damodararm bhakti-baddham itidrk sva-lilabhir ananda-kunde sva-ghosam nimajjantam akkyapayantam tadiyesita-jnesu bhaktair jitatvam punah prematas tam satavrtti vande varam deva moksam na moksavadhim va na canyam vrne 'ham varesad apiha idam te vapur natha gopala-balam sada me manasy avirastam kim anyaih idam te mukhambhojam atyanta-nilair vrtam kuntalaih snigdha-raktais' ca gopya muhus cumbitam bimba-raktadharam me manasy avirastam alam laksa-labhaih namo deva damodarananta visno prasida prabho duhkha jalabdhi-magnam krpa-drsti-vrsyati-dinam batanu- grhanesa mam ajnam edhy aksi-drsyah kuveratmajau baddha-murtyaiva yadvat tvaya mocitau bhakti-bhajau krtau ca tatha prema-bhaktim svakam me prayaccha na mokse graho me 'sti damodareha names te 'stu damne sphurad-dipti-dhamne tvadiyodarayatha visvasya dhamne namo radhikayai tvadiya-priyayai namo 'nanta-lilaya devaya tubhyam www.iskcon.it/prabhupadadesh/damodarastaka.mp3
- November 4, 2004
Pure Devotee sees Krishna Everywhere Question

Pankaja_Dasa replied to Pankaja_Dasa's topic in Spiritual Discussions

Hare Krishna I liked your example. What about being able to percieve little. /images/graemlins/confused.gif
- November 3, 2004
- 8 replies
Devotion is measured by whether one eats flesh?

Pankaja_Dasa replied to Pankaja_Dasa's topic in Spiritual Discussions

Even Lord Siva drank poison. Lets all follow this example. They teach us thats all. Whether Bhaktivinoda Maharaja ate fish or not {plus I heard before He was acting just like Impersonalist} so later on he manifested real devotion. Whenever I try and tell Christians about Vegi they always come out with statements like 'oh I love steaks!' the juicy the better. This is previous to saying things like I love Jesus, Jesus is the Only way. Makes me wonder who they foolin.
- November 3, 2004
- 13 replies
"If he is still in want or unhappiness.. no spiritual life at all..simply making show

Pankaja_Dasa replied to krsna's topic in Spiritual Discussions

Its offensive to neglect Vaishnava's who are here right now. To not worship them and serve them, this could be reason for accpeting 'living guru'. Thats pastime where Maharaja Yudhistara was preparing for Aswamedha Safrifice and there was one Vaishnava being neglected the process could not be completed. Maybe lesson for us. Well not maybe it is.
- November 3, 2004
- 43 replies