ancient_paztriot

… you have to have the knowledge to judge others. Mostly, people try to win arguments by intimidation and emotional appeal… they are heallthy as hypocrites because very few in society can expose them.

Wiped cookies out. testing agian.

Now life as we experience it and define it consists of emotions; attachments, bonding, etc. Wouldn't it really screw up your life to "remember" those other sentiments from previous lives? And even if you did remember being a happy pig in that pig sty, is just knowing that fact that you've had different lives gonna make you devotional? No. Then Krsna would have to deal with alot cheaters who want not to love Him, but just want exploit Him in the name of good choices… "What do I do to avoid hell and increase heaven?" So the lines would blurr and become much more problematic. As it is, the insincere don't even bother. They're counting on their experience.

The Bible is alright for beginners I guess. But not if you want good philosophy and religion too. "What is the point of rebirth if the soul cannot realize or remember his past karma or his past life?" With reincarnation in mind here, I'll say that all those activities and memories don't mean nothin'. This is all the stuff we are trying to forget… "ME" on the center stage. Now if you had memories of a religious life, that may help. But just seeing yourself with your fat chin in the pigpen (figure of speech) is not gonna help you understand much except maybe animal propensities. What we need to know in order to get our life back does not come from this world. So it doesn't matter how much you know about your lifetimes here, the real point is how to get out. And that information you have in religious texts, the absolute best being the Vedas. "but imagine if someone is reborn and don't have any idea about his past karma and his past life.Won't it be such a waste?" In your examples, there are people who are very concerned with the merits of a particular individual. Likewise, there are those who keep track of ours. Much of that merit is based on what we know and how we act. Human life is meant for religious yoga. People who don't care for this are called animals. The "waste" is doing it all again! He doesn't have any idea? Well, that's what the scriptures are for… to give him that idea. We hear about laws and punishment as we grow. Similarly, we hear from religious philosophy how karma prevails over several lifetimes. If one doesn't believe, what can be done? Truth is not subject to what we believe. Rather, we are subject to what we believe about the truth. If one chooses a belief system that doesn't make much sense… well that doesn't make much sense. People don't know or can't know because of seeing only this life? No! The information is there in religion. Reap what you sow. It is scientific. It is authoritative. And it puts the proper spin on things… forget this world. You just can't win. If people think they are gonna get knowledge and wisdom (such as vegetarianism) from memories of eating meat, let's say, then they have ALOT of lifetimes to experience. So this wanting to understand my way is a bluff. You can't do it.

Let us say someone is an administrator. In the material world, the administrator is very puffed-up in thinking, "I am in charge. I am the boss. And these people are all inferior to me. They are all subordinate. They have to do what I say." Uh, that's his mentality and he's enjoying that's he's in a superior position. But in Krsna consciousness, someone may be adminostrator, but he's thinking, "I am servant of these people. I have to make so many arrangements so that people can be happy. (Administrate so that no one is disturbed. Everyone has facility). In this way I am their servant.

…they are thinking in this way: these are all my followers. All these people are subordinate to me because I am speaking and they are listening. So this is material consciousness. But that is not Krsna consciousness. Krsna consciousness means I am speaking but I am thinking that I am servant of all these people. All these people are part and parcel of Krsna and uh Krsna wants them back home, back to Godhead. So therefore I have become their servant and therefore I have to give them this information. Just like the messenger boy comes: "Excuse me Sir! There is a message for you!" In the same way, a Krsna conscious preacher, he should feel like that: that I'm simply servant and I am giving this knowledge. In that way, in all our activity, we have to feel that we are servant. In the material world we also give service. Just like…

Hridy: So here in the purport also, Srila Prabhupada is explaining that a person becomes fully qualified with all transcendental qualities by following the rules and regulations as recommended in different scriptures. So this is the point: that why should one become purified just by following rules and regulations? …Because our basic disease in the material world is that we are not admitting or we don't like to think that I'm a servant of Krsna. In this world psychologically, everyone likes to think that he personally is the best person. Just like I am sitting here. So, I want to think, Oh I'm more intelligent than you. Uh, this is very relishable that I'm speaking and you are listening… (nervous laughter in audience) because in this way you have to ear my opinion and in this way I am showing that I am more intelligent than you. So this is material consciousness… actually, when the politicians speak…

Guest …I think you're right in saying that there is this religion of scientists that prevents this sort of grading which comes from scientists mouths. Hridy: What about for example a psychologists who… let's say a patient comes in to see a psychologists… uh has some problem, some unhappiness they want resolved. And the scientists says, "Well the problem is you don't have sex enough. You have to have more sex." And there are people that give recommendations like that. Then you get a whole body of wisdom coming from people; coming from many Western philosophers and widom of the East… alot of very intelligent people saying that actually you have to control and that sex is something that… not to be artificially repressed, but you have to learn how to control the senses, how to have self-discipline… how to channel that energy into higher pursuits. And that too much indulgence actually will ruin your capacity to progress in some important areas of knowledge. So again - as you were saying - the scientists may be indifferent in these things, but… In other words, no human can be strictly empirical. There is no empirical lifestyle. All of us deal in values, feelings and opinions and there is no strictly empirical… There isn't a scientific lifestyle. That's important that there is a scientific methodology in research and so on… but there is no scientific lifestyle so to speak. No one lives just by the dictates of science. What would that mean even?

There was an incident in Central or South America where a mataji wrote a letter to some dictator with her Krsna philosophy. The result of that was they were all promptly lined up and executed just outside their residence. People are generally described as passionate. I know why Prabhupada called us all sudras; we have the qualities of those in the mode of ignorance - foolishness, madness and illusion. We know this Krsna philosophy and religion is the only hope for the world… and yes, it is the only answer. Nowhere else exists the understanding and solutions to the world. It is our duty to spread this Krnsa movement, even if we are only repaying the magic of our getting the gift. When we make people understand this, that KC is the best, when we see them develop interest to read and discuss, then we are successfully preaching. Alot of bad public reaction is simply because they don't know any better. If someone reads this gita and thinks nothing of it, their opinion doesn't matter anyway. Therefore, people have to somehow hear. Much of the bad PR has been our own design. When books are not distributed on merit and people leave with the feeliing they've been scammed, then of course, people see us as charlatans. "People don't have the knowledge to see deeper" is certainly true. But you don't have to be a rocket scientists to understand duplicity and the con. Unfortunately, alot of this was encouraged by ISKCON in the past. Many big book distributors were con artists. They moved quickly through this whole act with everyone and went through alot of books and laksmi. The temple supported this purity and the biggest book distributors were seen as those blessed with Krsna's internal potency. Where are all those people who realized the importance of sankirtana… who had the sakti to do it? Has the mission changed or did I miss something? I think some of us are very delusional. Krsna and Prabhupada do need us. They have to work through us. If not, who are they gonna work through? We should cooperate and help, but there's more nectar in talking. So if we don't wanna be part of the institution, we should find some way to spread this to others on merit- even if it's just putting up flyers of text. Otherwise, there is no real life to us. We haven't become big devotees by not doing this. Embracing this desire gives your life purpose as a devotee, what to speak of reshaping your consciousness. If we don't do this, then it can't be very important in our lives. We are dangerous to ourselves. The world is not making it. KC is the only hope. Surely we can convince others of that even if we're not pure. Just don't come off as a scamming saint. We have the knowledge to defeat all others - politicians, businessmen, scientists, liberation groups, primitive religions - everyone. Such a rare gift to give! And it costs little or nothing! We should be enthusiasctic to spread this movement, even at the cost of our lives… because our lives without this purpose ain't worth much!

Just got back from seeing Lord of the Rings number 3. Made my eyes water a couple times. Stupendous special effects. I can't praise it enough. Unique in showing the simple folk as the real heros in the end. Just think what the Mahabharata would do with the same production. Now a picture like that would be the ultimate time warp… in every aspect of the word).

Yasoda, you sound very wise. I'm curious to know how old you are.

"… then maybe he can speak of it as a social/institutional/political problem." No. I have enough knowledge and experience to expose hypocrisy and defects now. If I speak as if my example is all in all, then I'm obviously not enlightened. But if I repeat the standard understanding my position is hopeful… while I wait. I'm gonna break my silence here about GURU for just a moment. I really don't like discussing it. I feel I'm tettering on a precipice doing so. I certainly fear offenses. One has to feel guru is everything. But unfortunately, the reality is guru is not everything to "everyone" …not always! According to one's understanding or preference or experience, he may not appreciate guru. He may be right. He may be wrong. As Christian colonization has left a bad taste in people's mouths, so many western devotees are fried over this guru issue following the wake of Prabhupada's dissapearance. I'm dubious. Many others are iffy. I would caution anyone that this is a sensitive subject. Many people accepted the reputation of said guru and got burnt. Some even committed suicide. Only a fool would rush in after witnessing that experience. Even if one is qualified, it is still highly subjective in terms of desire and preference. To suggest others are lost without one is certainly true, but it is not the last word. There are other valid perspectives pivoting around time and circumstances. They may not be as lost as you think. In the long run, maybe it's better they wait - even for another life. Then again, maybe not. But remember you are talking to experienced devotees on an issue like this. Many have tried what you suggests with devastating results. (Still, that is the process). I did not and probably won't… though I'm not closed to the idea.… but my heart has to know. Please be sensitive to others that are jaded and stop the subtle innuendos. Others may not share your faith… and for good reason… even if they might be wrong.

My wife works for an Indian employer here. They are also based in India. Here's what I found out from her talking to someone who goes back and forth between America and India. There are lots of people with degrees in India. Very good colleges. A good wage there for many of the graduates is around $10/hr. But as Shiva has said, the cost of living is cheap. 12 to 14 hour days are not uncommon. Many people are hired as temps and do not enjoy benefits, etc. They cycle through temp jobs fast and begin again.

Point by point basis not needed. I basically agree with you. There is no way but mercy ultimately. Granted. But most of us don't get the mercy that removes us from this world. Most of us struggle to be qualified for that mercy… even after 30 years. Till that mercy arrives, it's what we do that counts. It is easier for some people due to previous experience. And between those that try, different abilities are manifest. We balance between mercy and volition - a razor's edge. Honestly, many of us simply bleed on that edge. As far as your term sadhu goes, I think you mean "qualified spiritual master". Just about everyone agrees Prabhupada was such a person. There is contention about others due to preference and so many other characteristics… including circumstance. There have been lapses in the parampara before. I'm not suggesting there aren't people as qualified as you imply. I have not met any. But the people I have not met are infinite. I can speak of ISKCON because that is what I know. It is not flattering. I do not think ISKCON has a monopoly on Vedic science; quite the opposite. Unfortunately, no has moved me the way Prabhupada did. I'm jaded, but not hopeless. You want to avoid criticisms. So do I. There are so many doing better than I. This subject of spiritual master is something I try to avoid.

" we cannot develope any ability to recognize the pure devotee, the only hope is to be blessed by his mercy and to be recognized and saved by him " I beg to disagree with this. We may not have the prior knowledge of Sri Guru, but we can be informed enough to make an intelligent decision. We do this with cars and schools and jobs and everything… and yes, with gurus. Otherwise it is blind faith… which is perfectly alright if it happens to be the right choice. The danger is getting the imitation or something otherwise defective. ISKCON history is the perfect example.

Pope Peace Message Takes Swipe at U.S. Over Iraq By Philip Pullella VATICAN CITY (Reuters) - Pope John Paul took a swipe at the United States and its allies Tuesday for invading Iraq without U.N. approval, suggesting they had succumbed to the temptation to use the law of force instead of the force of law. In his World Day of Peace message, issued three days after the capture of Iraqi leader Saddam Hussein, he also appealed to democracies fighting terrorism to uphold the principles of international law and fundamental human rights. In the message, which is sent to leaders of nations and world organizations, the 83-year-old pope also said the U.N. needed reform and the international community had to heal the underlying social injustices that can fuel terrorism. In the 13-page message he appealed to terrorists, telling them that violence was not only unacceptable but compromises "the very cause for which you are fighting." The message, called "An Ever-Timely Commitment: Teaching Peace," was largely dedicated to the theme of international law and its role in resolving conflicts between states. Without mentioning any country by name, he recalled that the U.N. Charter "confirms the natural right to legitimate defense, to be exercised in specific ways and in the context of the United Nations." He also recalled that the U.N. Security Council had responsibility for collective security with "competence and responsibility for the preservation of peace, with power of decision and ample discretion." NOT A JUST WAR The Vatican did not consider the war in Iraq "a just war" because it was not backed by the United Nations and because the Vatican believed more negotiations were necessary to avoid it. U.N. Secretary-General Kofi Annan warned Washington a week before the war started that without Security Council backing, a war to disarm Iraq would violate the world body's charter. The pope said it was necessary for states to avoid the "temptation to appeal to the law of force rather than to the force of law." He also said he realized that international law was "hard pressed" today because of the presence of terrorist groups which could not be considered states in the traditional sense of law. "The scourge of terrorism has become more virulent in recent years and has produced brutal massacres which have in turn put even greater obstacles in the way of dialogue and negotiation ..." he wrote. Force had to be accompanied by what he called "a courageous and lucid analysis of the reasons behind terrorist attacks." The fight against terrorism had to aim at "eliminating the underlying causes of situations of injustice which frequently drive people to more desperate and violent acts..." Combating terrorism "cannot justify a renunciation of the principles of the rule of law," he wrote, adding that political decisions must take into consideration fundamental human rights. Civil rights groups have criticized new anti-terrorism laws enacted after September 11, 2001 that give the U.S. government the power to tap telephones, track Internet usage and cell phones, share intelligence information and detain immigrants.

Can anyone make any comparisons in wage earnings or conditions between the Americans and Indians over similar jobs? My wife said they work 'em so hard there many of the Indians practically live at the workplace. Can anyone substantiate this?

DECEMBER 15, 2003 COMMENTARY By Pete Engardio Corporate America's Silent Partner: India Businesses are off-shoring more and more white-collar jobs there, though you won't hear them talk about it much in an election year The shift of skilled work to India is becoming one of Corporate America's worst-kept secrets. Almost daily, India's newspapers carry items on new plans by U.S. software, finance, or pharmaceutical companies to open or expand call centers and research labs. Officials from Bombay to Bangalore point to splashy new office parks that are soon to house major facilities by companies like Morgan Stanley ( MWD ), General Motors ( GM ), or Dell ( DELL ). Tour a busy call center run by an Indian outsourcing specialist at midnight, and you'll likely see hundreds of staffers fielding calls for clients like American Express ( AXP ), MetLife ( MET ), J.P. Morgan Chase, or Citigroup ( C). Yet it's still very hard to get these companies to talk in the U.S. about the increasingly important role India is playing in their business models. For BusinessWeek 's Dec. 8 cover story, "The Rise of India," only a few BW 1,000 corporations were brave enough to grant on-the-record interviews about their R&D and back-office operations. They included General Electric ( GE ), Intel ( INTC ), and Cummins ( CMI ). A number of small software, chip-design, and e-commerce startups, for whom the ability to tap global brainpower is regarded as a competitive edge, also cooperated. But dozens of America's biggest investors in India -- don't worry, I won't name names -- simply refused to talk. SPEAKING UP. Few topics are as radioactive as offshore outsourcing. In the current political climate, politicians, pundits, and angry laid-off workers are hunting for scapegoats for America's largely jobless recovery. You can't find better targets than China and India, both of whom undeniably are gaining from the sweeping restructuring of American technology, financial services, and telecom companies. Companies from AT&T Wireless ( AWE ) to Bank of America ( BAC ) are issuing pink slips at home while staffing up in Delhi, Bombay, and Hyderabad. Corporate America won't be able to stay silent forever, though. Globalization of white-collar work is an irreversible mega-trend that's only starting to hit full force. The massive facilities being built in India under the radar screen will soon be blindingly obvious. More important, the economic payoff of off-shoring business processes and a portion of R&D can be so enormous that even reluctant corporations will have little choice but to follow suit to stay competitive. If a major info-tech, insurance, telecom, or banking company doesn't disclose any back-office center in India, Wall Street will soon start asking, "Why not?" Why am I so sure? Partly because of what has happened in electronics manufacturing over the past decade. From 1990 through 1996, I covered East Asia from Hong Kong. When I first visited Taiwan in the early 1990s, all of the computer makers there were manufacturing, and in some cases designing, desktop and notebook PCs for U.S. giants like Gateway ( GTW ), Dell, IBM ( IBM ), and Compaq, as well as many Japanese clients. "GLOBAL VALUE CHAIN." This was all supposed to be a big secret, and when asked, few U.S. companies would acknowledge that any of their PCs were made in Taiwan. When I returned to the U.S. in 1997, only a few tech companies, such as Cisco ( CSCO ), Palm ( PALM ), and Hewlett-Packard ( HPQ ), openly outsourced production of equipment to big U.S. contract manufacturers like Solectron ( SLR ), Flextronics ( FLEX ), Celestica ( CLS ), and SCI, while most other tech companies remained hush-hush. By the end of the '90s, though, outsourcing had become the accepted model in electronics manufacturing. Wall Street assigned much higher stock values to companies that outsourced, and they had far healthier returns on capital. Companies that were slow to sell off their own factories, such as Motorola ( MOT ) and Lucent ( LU ), were heavily criticized. In fact, companies began to tout their strategies for building a "global value chain" by joining forces with manufacturing and design "partners." And when it came to Silicon Valley, venture capitalists simply wouldn't back a new telecom-equipment company, say, if it planned to build its own factories. LOBBYING CONGRESS. I suspect companies will be more open about white-collar off-shoring not long after next year's U.S. Presidential election. By then, foment in Washington for protectionist policies will likely abate. If, on the other hand, the economy falters and the political backlash intensifies beyond 2004, Congress might introduce legislation to curtail off-shoring. Then Corporate America would have another reason to step forward. CEOs will become more vocal in lobbying Congress -- much as companies like Boeing ( BA ) have carried the water for China on Capitol Hill every time Washington considers restricting trade. Wall Street also will ratchet up the pressure as analysts zero in on the differences in cost structure between companies that successfully use offshore skilled workers and those that don't. Already, investors are asking pointed questions. JUST ANOTHER COST. Rajiv Chaudhri, manager of New York-based hedge fund Digital Century Technology, tracks some 100 public companies. He says India is becoming a constant new theme in quarterly conference calls between investors and executives, whether they're from investment banks, insurance companies, or even consumer-product companies. "Everyone is facing the same problem -- revenue growth has slowed, and they have to reduce costs," says Chahri. "So increasingly, they're being asked to articulate their plans to move some development and back office to India." By communicating to investors about their India plans, companies could show they're at the forefront of the trend rather than laggards. In a few years, off-shoring "is going to be a cost of doing business," says McKinsey Global Institute Director Diana Ferrell. "The biggest cost savings will come to companies that get the formula right early. Companies that are late will get hurt." PERMANENT SHORTAGE? True, corporations likely won't feel comfortable about openly talking about their offshore activities until job growth returns to the U.S. In the late '90s, few alarms were raised about the heavy influx of immigrant IT workers because the software industry was desperate for skilled employees. And in the long run, most demographers predict that the U.S. will again face labor shortages, especially as baby boomers start retiring. It remains to be seen whether the current U.S. recovery can quickly generate the kind of job growth to make the current offshore shift to India a nonissue. But sooner or later, India will cease being Corporate America's dirty little secret and instead will be hailed as a valuable strategic ally.

Guest: I have a question. I've had some contact with members of different groups in preaching. And I've seen that sometimes they think Lord Siva is supreme, sometimes they think Krsna is supreme, sometimes they think everyone is supreme. And yet still they feel that they're satisfied, “Now I've found my guru. I'm satisfied. I don't have to take up any other spiritual practice”. How is it that they think that they're satisfied when their philosophy is so mixed-up? Hridy: People are not serious. Just like a pig is eating stool. He's satisfied. If you say to him, “Excuse me, but you've taken this pig's body and you're actually just eating stool. Wouldn't you like something more out of life? “No,” he'll say, “I'm very happy. I'm the chief pig in my pen and I'm doing very nicely.” So in this way no one is serious about God. People think religion is like a hobby. But as far as the Vedic literature is concerned, we are giving the standard knowledge of Bhagvad-gita. Actually Indian wisdom means Bhagavad-gita. And in Bhagavad-gita Krsna says ???, there is nothing greater than Me. That's all. This is God. When you find someone to whom no one is equal or greater, that's God. If someone is equal to or greater than him, he's not God. He's someone else. Maybe he's a great person, but he's not God. Any other question? Guest: How can someone determine what the extent of their involvement in Krsna consciousness should be? Hridy: As much as possible. Take Krsna as much as you can. It is common sense that God is a person. Even the Christians know God is the father. That means he's a person. A father cannot be impersonal. We have no experience of a father who is not a person. So God is a person, but he's unlimited. But God must be the most beautiful. Everyone thinks that something is beautiful in the world. What do they say? Purple mountains majesty, amber waves of grain. So these are conceptions of beauty. All of us have some idea of something which is beautiful. And all these beautiful things are coming from God so He must be the most beautiful. How could He be homely or plain? If God… Just like for example the azaleas are blooming. So millions and billions of azaleas are blooming, each very beautiful. So God is making billions of beautiful things every day. So He personally must be so gorgeous. When the sun rises you feel heat and light from the sun (this is common sense). So if there's a little bit of heat reaching our body in the form of sun rays, image how much heat you would find on the sun. So if this world is God's energy and so much beauty is emanating from God, just like the sunshine coming from the sun, how much beauty will you find? Just like you basically find a 70 degrees of temperature on the earth, but you find 70 million degrees on the sun. So just as you find a little beauty on this earth you'll find millions of degrees of beauty in God. But because people are so dull they can't understand this. People can't understand this, they've become so dull. They can only understand television. Watch television, see so many different things for their eyes. But the most common sense thing about God they can't understand. But isn't this common sense. If so much beauty is coming from God then he personally must be unlimitedly beautiful. So who is that beautiful person from whom all beauty is coming? Who is that most beautiful person? That's Krsna. Here is the information. God is telling you. So there's no excuse. God is giving the information. Now if we're serious we'll accept it. Why do we honor some punk little scientists with the Nobel prize just because he presents some little theory about something in this world? So if it takes so much intelligence to discover something about the atom for example, then how much intelligence does it take to make the atoms? What prize shall we give God? If we are giving the Nobel prize to some little punk scientists who simply formulates his observations, what will we give the creator of everything? Nothing! Just kick 'em. This is modern culture. Kick Him out of the school, kick Him out of business and politics. Therefore, there will be war, there will be destruction. Everyone already knows it. America and Russia, they are so strong, they have so many weapons. How are they not gonna fight? It's just like you take two dogs and they are sniffing each other and snarling, showing their teeth. Sooner or later someone's gonna bite. How can you tell two dogs now don't fight, be a good dog? So the same way it's just like dogs barking at each other. They've no more God, no more anything. They simply want sex, they want to eat, they want to sleep, they want money. Just like dogs they're barking at each other and they'll ??? How will you tell dogs be good dogs, don't fight? It's not possible. Sooner or later they'll fight. So in the same way that we want to kick out God, we want to simply accept something else instead of God, everything will be finished. I explained that ???, again we will become little mice. The Pilgrims and all these people came to America like little humble mice. They're simply kicked out of Europe more or less. So they came to America like little mice. America has become a big, powerful country. But again we'll become mice. Back to the log cabins. We don't want to go back to home, back to Godhead, then it'll be back to home, back to the log cabins. All this technology will blow up and we'll go back to home, back to log cabins… or much worse. But in America there are many nice, innocent people. So those people who are actually nice should help this movement. There's no other movement that's gonna solve these problems. Just like they have pro-life movements against abortion, but they don't even know what the soul is. They have no clear understanding between body and soul or how consciousness comes intot he body or what's going on. Simply some sentiment: Don't kill the fetus. That's a nice sentiment. But they have no scientific understanding. What is the body? What is the soul? Who is the person? Where is he coming from? Where was the person before he entered the body? If you say after so many months a person appears within the womb of the mother, where was that person before he came into the body? Was he somewhere else? Or was he just created? If so, how was he created by matter? Or if he's not created by matter but exists beyond matter, where was he before he came into this body? And actually what is life? And where is life coming from? No understanding. So this is all in Bhagavad-gita. This is the only movement which can actually answer these riddles. This movement has full potency. Anyone who joins this movement immediately becomes a saint. No more illicit sex, gambling, meat, fish, or eggs, no drugs, coffee or cigarettes, he rises at four o'clock in the morning chanting God's names, reading scriptures, singing, dancing and then working all day for God. This is saintly life. They don't do this in the monasteries. They just sit around and watch television and read playboy. This is where religion is. This is where spiritual life is. So therefore if you actually want to help the world, if you actually want to do something besides throw your life away and just end up––50 years from now––playing checkers on the beach, then you should help this movement. This is the only movement that has the power to stand up to all these fools who are ruining the world. It's a fact. Are there any questions? Guest: There are so many people here in America who accept the Holy Bible, that do not accept Bhagavad-gita. Why is this? Hridy: Well it's their choice. But that's alright. If they accept their Bible that's very nice. But I don't see anyone accepting the Bible. Just like the Bible says thou shalt not kill. So who is not killing? Just like in America we have big technological slaughter houses. They drag in millions and billions of innocent animals who are screaming and crying and simply cut their throats. So who's following the Bible? These are Christians? This is nonviolence? Hmmm? Guest: To get back to that last question, some people read the Bible and therefore they think that not killing requires the human… Hridy: They think? Therefore our culture is you can eat a spiritual master. What is the use of “I think…”? Guest: ??? readily accept that ??? Hridy: They don't accept because it says though shalt not kill and they're killing. That means they don't accept. Therefore, those who are actually sincere believers of the Bible should see that this Krsna consciousness movement has the spiritual strength to actually carry out the principles of the Bible. Just like the Bible says you should dedicate your life to God; love God with all your heart, soul, and might. Isn't it? That's a very important verse in the Bible. So if one chants Hare Krsna, he actually gets the spiritual strength to do that. Or it says not to look at women with lust. But who's following that? We are. Thou shalt not kill. But who's following that? We are. So we are the followers of the Bible. We're not hypocrites. We don't make a big show and advertise ourselves as believers in the Bible. But we actually follow the Bible. We don't have to go out and talk about it. Guest: The Christians say that they have accepted Jesus Christ and… Hridy: Well how do we know? What does the word accept mean? In the dictionary, what does it say for the word accept? Guest: ??? says to much devotion is the sign of a thief ??? Hridy: (giggles) Too much devotion is the sign of a thief. Now we have to look up the word accept. Everything should be done very carefully. Guest: They say that man cannot stop sinning, so… Hridy: So we are doing it. So what are we if we are not men? I have two eyes, two arms and legs. I have a driver's license and social security card. I must be a man. Guest: They say we are sinning because we have not accepted Jesus. Hridy: What? We have accepted Jesus. We've actually accepted more than them because we are following his teachings. Well let's find out what the word accept means. If we are doing what Jesus requested, is that accepting? Just like if you say I accept the government. Of course I don't follow the law personally, but in my heart I've accepted the government. It is alright if you break all the laws and they drag you before the judge and you say, “Well judge, in my heart I love the government”? So do you think Jesus Christ is such a fool that he can be bluffed like this? Guest: They say that ??? continue to sin. Hridy: This is all their crazy ideas. So therefore they can sin. Jesus Christ is suffering for my sins, therefore let me sin as much as possible so he'll suffer as much as possible. This is my love. My love for you is I want to see you suffer. I see that you have some injury, therefore I'm beating it just so you'll suffer more. Therefore I love you. Who will accept such a crazy thing? Do you think any intelligent person will be cheated by such a philosophy? Jesus Christ suffers for my sins, therefore let me make him suffer. This is my love. What kind of philosophy is this? We cannot bear to think of our spiritual master suffering. If our spiritual master says that I'm a little thirsty, immediately everyone will run like mad to bring him water. We don't even want him to be thirsty for a second. Our love is we immediately bring him what he needs. Do not let him feel any discomfort. Do not let him be inconvenienced for a moment. This is our love. And there love is let us make Jesus Christ suffer. We want more blood. He's shedding his blood for our sins, so let us make more blood. This is their love for their guru. Therefore is there any wonder the world has rejected this? Practically speaking it's rejected. Who will accept such a thing? But we are not sinning? How do you say that we are sinful? Guest: 'Cause you have not accepted Jesus. Hridy: But I'm saying if I carefully follow all the laws of the government, have I accepted the government? And you say you accept the government but you break all the laws. Who is the good citizen? You say you're a big patriot and you break every law. And we don't talk but we follow every law. Now who is a good citizen? Who will the government actually appreciate more? Will the government appreciate you or me? I'm following all the laws, I'm paying my taxes, I'm doing everything nicely, but I don't talk. And you're talking like anything but you break all the laws. Now who will be appreciated more by the government, you or me? You talk about Jesus Christ and you break every one of his teachings. You don't follow anything. You simply sin day and night. I don't talk but I follow everything. Now who’s gonna be appreciated by Jesus Christ? Who has accepted Jesus Christ? Therefore, if one joins Krsna consciousness, he's the best Christian. When one surrenders to God he becomes the best everything. Guest: How should we interpret in the Bible Jesus says that only through me God, shall you obtain God? Hridy: We don't interpret. Guest: Well, like sometimes I'm thinking and people will say that and their interpretation is that only by accepting Jesus and no other person… Hridy: If you accept a spiritual master, then you have to feel that way about Him. Jesus Christ is a representative of God, therefore he's a spiritual master. Therefore if you accept Jesus Christ as your guru, then you have to feel that way about him. But this is the standard relationship between disciple and guru. Anyway, the Bible they change it so much anyway. They change it however they like. Guest: ??? Hridy: Jesus Christ, I don't think he spoke English. They translate so many things. Who can know what he actually said? Why should we accept just because some British man said that Jesus Christ said this? Why should we accept it? We accept Jesus Christ, but these English people who have done so many crazy things, they practically… So now this is their Bible. So this British Bible we're not interested in. Jesus Christ we offer all respect to. We offer all honor and worship to Jesus Christ. But we don't care about this British Bible. Jesus Christ said you judge a tree by the fruit. So this is the best fruit, Krsna consciousness. Where else will you find so many young people so much dedicated to God? You understand? So why quibble over words? Here is the fact that these people are developing love for God, they're serving God, they know what God is. Why be penny wise and pound foolish? You understand? Why quibble over words and ignore the real facts that here's love of God. What did it say for accept, a - c - c - e - p - t? Guest: ??? It says uh ??? Hridy: To acede, acquiescence. Acquiescence means obedience. That means when you obey something you are accepting. What's the… has more definitions? Guest: ??? Hridy: That means you agree to. That means whatever Jesus Christ says you have to agree to do it. And what else? Guest: To respond to in a ??? manner. To receive formally as into a college or club. Hridy: Yes, emphatics. In that sense they have accepted. (laughter) Guest: Also to ??? Hridy: Ahh, to assume responsibility. But they say there's no responsibility. They say you accept Jesus there's no more responsibility. But here the word means to assume responsibility. Guest: ?? Hridy: Anyway, so that's the idea. The first definition is acquiescence, obedience. The same example is there. If you are following all the laws of the government very carefully, don't you think the government will appreciate it? So practically speaking we are following the teachings of Jesus Christ. So we've accepted. We are obeying. Accept means to obey. But if you say yes, I love the government but you break all the laws, will the government appreciate it? What is the use of it? It has no meaning.

Scam sites start spoofing secure sites By Dinah Greek [12-12-2003] Latest cons show increasing sophistication of cyber-criminals Online shoppers are being warned to look out for fraudulent websites dressed up as real businesses following the launch of a police investigation into a spoof website scam. A number of consumers have been duped by unlockedphones-uk.com, which claimed to sell mobile phones at knock down prices. The site, which has now been closed, took consumers' money, but did not deliver the goods. Shoppers are advised to buy only from secure sites (those with an address that starts https:) using secure socket layer (SSL) encryption. But increasingly, fraudsters are spoofing these addresses. Unlockedphones-uk.com gave a 'genuine' address and conned people by carrying fake VeriSign and TRUSTe shopping site logos. The site had the golden padlock icon in the bottom right-hand corner of the page and had an internet address that began with 'https:'. Its security certificate was genuine, but was hijacked from and embedded onto the site. Steve Roylance, technical marketing director of security specialist company Comodo, warned that the problem with SSL is the certificates, logos, icons and the https url can be spoofed. He also said providers were taking shortcuts. "Less reputable SSL providers do sometimes cut corners issuing certificates to sites with little or no validation of the individual or entity. This practice could allow rogue web sites through the net." A final twist saw an address and phone number listed on the website to Mphones, an unrelated company, which called in Scotland Yard after being inundated with calls from angry customers. Detective Sgt Steve Santorelli of Scotland Yard, who is heading the investigation into unlockedphones-uk, warned that people should always be wary of unrealistic prices. "If it looks to good to be true then it is," he said. How to spot a fake Online shoppers should always double click on the padlock icon. If nothing shows up it is a fake. If a window appears, read the details and look for issuer and subject. Also, an error message will appear if the security certificate does not belong to the site shown. There are tools available to help check a site's security. Comodo has released free software called TrustToolbar and VerificationEngine to help consumers verify websites. TrustToolbar authenticates a visited site. If a site is genuine it shows up in the toolbar. While not every site is covered, most major brands are. By running VerificationEngine you are able to verify that the site you are visiting (or directed to via email) can be trusted. www.trusttoolbar.com www.vengine.com

11/12/2003 John Zuccarini, a veteran of cybersquatting disputes, yesterday became the first person convicted under America's new Truth in Domain Names law. In tears, he admitted that he intentionally used misleading web addresses to lure children to porn sites. Zuccarini is no stranger to domain name disputes, having lost actions to actor Kevin Spacey and companies including FAO Schwarz, Alta Vista and others. In October 2001, the Federal Trade Commission took action over his practice of registering internet domain names that were misspellings of famous brands or names - known as typosquatting. For example, he registered 41 variations on the name of pop princess Britney Spears so that fans misspelling her name in their browser would be taken to Zuccarini's sites. The most likely candidates to misspell addresses are, inevitably, children. Zuccarini had at one stage over 5,500 domain names registered, including, to use examples from the latest complaint, teltubbies and bobthebiulder. Once in a Zuccarini site, users were bombarded with a flurry of pop-up windows displaying ads for goods and services ranging from internet gambling to porn. In some cases, the legitimate web site the consumer was attempting to access also was launched, so consumers thought the hailstorm of ads to which they were being exposed was from a legitimate web site. And a Zuccarini site is very difficult to leave. In a practice known as mousetrapping, programming code at the sites obstructed surfers' ability to close their browser or to go back to the previous page. Clicks on the 'close' or 'back' buttons caused new windows to open, and more ads to appear - in the hope that the user will click on one and transfer to the advertised site. Zuccarini, according to the complaint, was paid a referral fee of between 10 to 25 cents whenever a user moved on from his site to one of the sites advertised. The scheme earned him up to $1 million a year, and a huge number of complaints and civil court actions. These culminated in May last year when a US District Court permanently barred Zuccarini from diverting or obstructing consumers on the internet and from launching web sites or web pages that belong to unrelated third parties. The court also barred him from participating in advertising affiliate programmes on the internet, and ordered him to pay almost $1.9 million in damages. But Zuccarini did not comply with the order and in September this year was charged under the Truth in Domain Names statute. This new legislation makes it a crime in the US to use "a misleading domain name on the internet to deceive a minor into viewing material that is harmful to minors on the internet." It carries a maximum sentence of four years. In addition to pleasing guilty to 49 charges under the domain names law, he also pleaded guilty to one count of possessing child pornography, according to CNet news.com. Zuccarini apparently made a plea bargain with prosecutors, agreeing to a recommended sentence of 30 to 37 months' imprisonment. However, the sentencing judge is not bound by the agreement. Sentencing is due to take place on 20th February.

advertisement Frequent-buyer clubs, 0% financing and other so-called bargains are often big on hype but a bust on saving you money. Learn how to ferret out fakes and snag the real savings. By Liz Pulliam Weston My dear old granny used to chuckle at store banners that promised big savings. “You’re not saving,” she’d cackle. “You’re spending.” Everybody, it seems, is trying to save us money by getting us to spend more, whether it’s 0% financing on cars, frequent-shopper cards at grocery stores or those behemoth warehouse stores. Most of the time, what seems like a great deal really isn’t. 0% financing What’s better than free money? Nothing, if you ask the millions of Americans who stampeded to their local car dealerships when auto makers started advertising 0% loans. Yet at the peak of the 0% frenzy, only about one in four car buyers who financed their purchases actually got a no-interest loan, according to J.D. Power and Associates’ Power Information Network, which tracks car-buying trends. The 0% offers get the buyers in the dealerships’ doors, explains analyst Tom Libby, but most don’t get the great deals. Here’s why: Not all buyers qualify. You need good to excellent credit to qualify for most 0% deals. About half of Americans have good credit -- a FICO credit score of 720 or above. The other half don’t. If you’ve been late a few times on your bills, maxed out your credit cards or run into other trouble with debt, you might have trouble snagging the advertised rate. Even if you qualify, you still might not be able to afford the loan. That’s because many low- or no-interest deals have loan terms of just two or three years, which boost the monthly payments. The payments for a $20,000 five-year loan at 5.62% would be $383.13 a month. At 0% for three years, the monthly outlay is $555.55. If the loan is just two years, the payments spike to $833.33. If you can make those payments, great. The best way to pay off most car loans is quickly. But chances are you’ll balk at the higher payment and settle for a longer loan, which means the car ultimately will cost you more. Even if you can afford the loan, you’ll pay more for the car. Whether you bargain less hard, or the dealer is more resistant, the outcome is the same. A good chunk of the money the car companies lose from 0%t financing is recovered in a higher sales price. For example: During the past five months, the average buyer of a Ford Explorer who financed with a 0% loan paid $29,824 for the vehicle, according to the Power Information Network, which downloads car purchase transactions from 5,200 car dealer franchises. By contrast, those who paid cash or got some other type of loan paid $27,952 on average -- a difference of $1,872. Chevy TrailBlazers, another vehicle that was promoted using 0% come-ons, cost an average $28,916 for those who opted for the “no cost” loan. Others paid an average $27,477 or $1,439 less. So how do you fight back? Here are some ideas: Good, old-fashioned bargaining. Get the car’s wholesale price -- what the dealer paid -- from Consumer Reports' New Car Pricing Service (Invoice prices are also available at MSN Autos; see links at left.) and negotiate up from that. Don’t let the sales person sidetrack you into talk about financing until you’ve settled on a price for the car. If he or she asks, “What you can afford to pay each month?” the proper response is: “That’s really none of your business.” Line up financing first. If you can’t pay cash for a car, shop your local credit union and banks for a good loan, or check into a home equity loan. If the dealer can beat the best rate you find, terrific. If not, you’ll still get a decent deal. Consider buying used. All the 0% deals helped drive down the price of older vehicles. A two-year-old Ford Explorer XLT can be found for about $16,000 -- about half the cost of the new version. (For more money-saving strategies for cars, see MSN Money's Decision Center, "The best deals on four wheels.") Frequent-buyer clubs Grocers have known for years that shoppers with loyalty or discount cards wind up spending a lot more during each shopping trip. According to a 1997 ACNielsen study, they sometimes spend two or three times as much as the average non-card shopper, depending on the store. That’s because the stuff that’s not on sale is usually priced much higher, compared to the same items at stores that don’t have frequent shopper cards. Stores get away with this because they know it’s simply too hard to keep track of the prices of more than a few items. You might know a good sale price on milk, for example. But can you rattle off the lowest price your store charges for cottage cheese? Sour cream? Yogurt? Half and half? Mentally walk down the aisles and think of all the stuff you regularly buy. Can you name a good price for each of those items? Can you name any price? Unless you’re a mental prodigy, or you cheated and consulted a price book (more on that below), you were probably stumped pretty quickly. And grocers count on that. How do you fight back? You can strategize your shopping, for starters. Get your store’s weekly flyer and plan your menus around that. Or try shopping at stores that don’t use frequent-buyer cards to see if your weekly bill goes down. If you really want savings, though, consider using the frugal shopper’s best friend: the price book. This can be as simple as a notepad or as fancy as software for your PDA, but it allows you to track the price you pay for various items. Over time, you can see when you’re getting a really good price and also begin to see patterns of when certain items go on sale. “You’ve got to know your prices,” says Jonni McCoy, author of three books on savings, including “Miserly Moms: Living on One Income in a Two-Income Economy,” “because everyone’s going to try and convince you they’ve got the best deal.” McCoy started keeping track several years ago after she quit her job to become a full-time mother. She used an old week-at-a-glance calendar someone gave her, entering prices for items like sugar, peanut butter, meat and paper products. “I was surprised by how much variation there was,” McCoy said -- not just in the prices different stores charged, but the prices the same store would charge from one sale to the next. The same jar of peanut butter might be anywhere from 8 cents to 13 cents an ounce, depending on the sale. Now when she finds something at her lowest “target” price, she stocks up. Think this is too much effort? Consider that the average family spends $4,000 to $5,000 a year on groceries -- typically its biggest expense after housing and transportation. Even saving 10% on your shopping trips will put $400 to $500 more annually in your pocket. That’s a pretty good return for just a few minutes’ worth of your time each week. Wise up about warehouse stores The only thing bigger than these concrete boxes is the line you face at the checkout counter. But you’re saving tons of money, right? Longtime savvy shoppers are doubled over about now, laughing. They know warehouse shopping is often more trouble than it’s worth. It’s not just that you may wind up inadvertently with a lifetime supply of cinnamon, as one of my girlfriends did after getting carried away in the spice section. It’s that the prices aren’t that great. Take diapers. Costco sells Huggies for what amounts to 22 cents per nappy. That’s the same price you’ll typically find at Target -- and Target’s got more checkout stands. But you can do even better. Our local grocery store regularly puts name-brand diapers on sale, lowering the price to 13.9 cents each. I recently combined such a sale with a $2 coupon. The store matched the coupon with another $1 off, and now the baby’s bottom is covered for 9.7 cents. McCoy finds she can buy name-brand paper towels, toilet paper and other paper products for much less at her local store than she can at a warehouse. “Paper products are usually 250% higher at the warehouse than they are during a good (grocery store) sale,” McCoy says. But other items are a bargain, and you can spot them if you track prices. Costco sells loaves of Tillamook Cheese for less than $5 each, for example -- a price our local grocery store matches only a few times a year. Again, you’ve got to know your prices -- and your tolerance for half-hour checkout lines. No payments until doomsday Whether it’s computers, carpet or caviar, you can probably find a store willing to let you take it home now and pay for it months or even years later. Watch out. The most common ploy with no-payments-until-whenever plans is charging you interest during the supposed payment vacation. The interest charges pile up, but you don’t get the bill until your first payment is due. The type of transaction could cost you, as well. Some no-payment plans are actually installment loans, which means you can’t use your credit card. And that means you lose the buyer protections a credit card offers. What’s more, applying for an installment loan means you’re applying for new credit, which can put another ding on your credit report. How do you sidestep the traps? The usual way: by reading all the fine print. Or by bypassing the no-payment deal entirely. Most of the time, you’re better off paying cash for what you buy. That way you’re sure you can afford it, and there won’t be any surprises months down the road.

Deteriorating Retail Ethics Ken McIsaac Dec 14, 2003- Ethics: conscience, moral code, principles, moral values In certain consumer markets, some corporations are increasing their use of unethical tactics to get my money. They use misleading ads, deceptive promotions, and all kinds of trickery. And and some cases, they are doing it in step with their competitors. Why is this becoming so widespread? One of the main causes is probably the saturation of markets and therefore stronger competition. If creative slight-of-hand ideas in advertising and marketing are used by others to increase profit, what is a corporation supposed to do? To keep dealing fairly and squarely with consumers may cause the company to lose market share, resulting in less money for management and shareholders. One by one each business may feel it is necessary to consider joining the con game. It is so generally expected by us consumers that we just quietly accept it, and it easily spreads wider. To those retailing in an ethical manner, thanks, but it's too bad that some are ruining the reputation of many. Perhaps you should not wait for us consumers to complain, we are too passive. You could do something yourselves. Shouldn't we complain? The following examples cannot all be considered unethical. Certainly there are different opions on what is right and wrong, acceptable or not. These are my own observations and opinions only. L Tricked again! Recently I bought a jar of jam boldly displayed at the end of a supermarket aisle. Just what I wanted - the label read Pure Fruit. I thought! At home, when I had more time, I was surprised at what I had actually bought. Made From Pure Fruit LThe shell game: mix and fool I have seen this sleazy promotion now and again over many years. A display reads 35% off, or only $29.95, but is only for another item in that display. I guess the store manager is hoping the consumer will not pay attention to the price at the till, or will be too embarrassed to refuse paying. Not only dirty pool, but really stupid! Of course I'm pretty stupid too if I don't complain about it, and go back to the same store for more their business. L A Penny connived is a penny earned I have department store charge statements that are formatted, to what appears, to get me to pay less than the balance. Retailers sometimes show a profit on high credit charges, and not on selling merchandise, so that might explain things. In one example the bottom statement line reads This Month's Payment Due $10.00 and Minimum Payment Due $10.00 even though the account balance, shown above this, was considerably more. No thanks I'll pay the account balance. L Salt - Sugar - Fat The 3 pillars of good tasting, fast or packaged, profit making food. For many in the food business it's a dilemma. Often it is necessary to lace the product with too much of one or more of these to attract consumers. After all, the competition is doing it, and people love the taste. I love the taste too. Since they are considered bad for my health, except in reasonable amounts, they should show more concern. And I should examine all ingredients carefully and use commone sense. I do read: Nutrition Action Healthletter, a publication of The Center for Science in the Public Interest. www.cspinet.org L Advertised special? This is something that I see spreading through some of the stores. The management has a sale and places prominent tags on sale items throughout the store. They also place prominent tags that look similar but are not on sale. Some advertising flyers also use this technique, mixing non sale items with reduced ones, cleverly. L Slalom through the cosmetic department When at the mall I often walk through a department store cosmetic department to get to the parking lot. What a layout! The aisles are large triangles wandering around displays. I suppose there is some retailing rationale that says the store will sell a bit more product by slowing passers through. But what about the people that aren't interested in this, at this moment, that are in a hurry? What are they thinking? L Commercials annoy me, generally Well there are some cute ads that are easy to watch and listen to, but too many are too noisy, too misleading, too stupid. I watched and heard a broadcaster on Canadian national television explain about 'loud commercials'. The media tech had explained to him that the sound was not louder but it was enhanced to sound louder. ? ? ? ? If they are meant to be intense and intrusive to capture the viewers attention, well this guy has them muted, and I know I'm not alone! L Optical Illusions I'm looking at a display ad in a retail electronics flyer. It shows a Flat Screen TV. It is not a flat panel, thin TV, it just looks like one. The graphic is a three dimensional type but is drawn in such a way that it looks like it has no depth. Did they forget to draw the projection for this 'Flat Screen' TV? And what is the reasoning? will someone traveling to the store be disappointed, but not upset enough to buy something else while there? Weird! L New and Unimproved Product If a company sells a particular item and everyone has it, and it still works well, what is it going to do to maintain or increase revenue and profits? If a new and much improved version is not viable and there is a lack of new products to introduce, then a minor facelift and major promotion might work very well. L Cartoon Alley For examples of great techniques on how to sell to kids, and for a variety of what is offered in some food categories, I take a trip down the cereal aisle of my supermarket. I'm not saying this is unethical, but should marketing target kids at all? LSave now, pay later The 'product' only costs $100 - how can they sell it at such a low price? The refills are $25 ? ? ? L New Townhouses - Minutes From the Beach Yeah right! By jet maybe. One such advertisement in this area showed a happy couple by the shoreline. But it was 6 miles away. I suppose if I was living in Moose Jaw it would seem close. L Loyalty cards make me barf They add cost to the goods sold, which I guess is mostly borne by the shoppers that don't have the card (ie visitors). But what a nuisance it is carrying and using all these cards! There are too many! Anybody I have ever asked said they didn't like them either. I don't look at it as saving money at the till, but rather as a card to avoid being gouged. L What kind of a sale is this? Digital Service only $24.95 a month for 6 months. I observed one service provider start with this type of promotion. Then another, then another. This does not seem like a great sale, but perhaps if the text was all the same size, and the after price was stated, I might not be so negative. L Buyer be wary 30% OFF an item that is grossly overpriced, is still overpriced. L Shock and TV ratings Perhaps you are alarmed about the progression of explicit television and perhaps not. I have wondered why it has increased dramatically in recent years and realize that many are interested in this. There is another consideration. Profit and curiosity. I heard a TV producer, on a national radio documentary, state that their television program ratings were dropping and that they decided to introduce more shock. And so we curious ones are nudged into the herd. Kids too. L My choice for the worse judgment On my TV service, the Listings Guide channel has a split screen. The left side awkwardly scrolls through the listings, while the right half blasts commercials at me. Why would anyone promote anything in this way? I want to quickly find out what's coming on next! L Self awarded awards Some awards are quite vague, purposely. They are sometimes part of a business self therapy group. I recall an advertisement touting an award from the 'ABCXYZ Home Builders'. It was not specified, but a listing of the awards elsewhere had one for best promotional brochure. Not what a home buyer wants to know. L Little walking billboards I would not wear a piece of clothing that has advertising across the front or back. I have seen a three year old tot walking through the mall with the manufacturer's name boldly displayed on the chest. Hey, this is great promotion if someone is willing to do it. Thanks mom and dad! L Junk food for schools If those promoting the sale of junk foods in schools were serving time, on a diet of junk food only, I wonder if there views would change. What people will do for money! ~ There seems to be so much that is unethical and in poor taste, in the retail world. I have to wonder if these practices aren't taught in some business administration courses. Deception seems so common and widely accepted. Even some of the larger corporations openly use misrepresentation in their promotion, with no care that I might think badly of them. 'We aren't breaking any laws' would likely be the explanation. They know we don't care and will be back for more! Things will work out OK because there are so many things we can do in our democratic society, we just have to do them. Make our free enterprise system free. Free to do what is good and honest. Unless we complain and take our business elsewhere when we feel cheated, we will only promote unethical practices in retailing.

Consumers don't know that they're losing the right to challenge sleazy dealers in court. By Ralph Nader "AMERICANS ARE IN love with their cars" is a badly overworked phrase, but it is a cliché that rings the cash registers at car dealers to the tune of $650 billion dollars of new car sales annually. That's why many consumers are so vulnerable when they roam the car lots. Suddenly, they just have to get behind the wheel of that magnificent red convertible or that mammoth SUV. Caution diminishes and basic questions that might be asked even for the purchase of a $100 microwave-much less a $30,000 automobile – are forgotten. Now car dealerships-already with all the advantages in their corner-are increasingly locking the door on consumers who might raise a dispute after the purchase of a car – even where outright fraud may have been involved. This is being accomplished by requiring consumers to sign an agreement to forgo their Constitutional rights to ask the courts to settle a dispute with the dealer. Instead of an impartial judge or a jury of randomly selected jurors, the consumers are required to place their fate in the hands of an arbitrator. This is called binding arbitration, which keeps the consumer from seeking justice in the court room even after the arbitrator's decision. In theory, the arbitrator is supposed to be neutral, and agreed on by both parties. But many dealers designate the arbitration company in the sales contract when the automobile is purchased. And common sense suggests the arbitration company isn't likely to come up with decisions that might cut off future business from the dealer. If the binding arbitration clause is in the contract, why doesn't the consumer simply refuse to sign the contract? One big reason is that many consumers don't realize the requirement for binding arbitration is in the contract-and dealers aren't likely to mention the issue until the buyer has signed the contract and the consumer is about to drive away with the shiny new car. In the cases where the consumer does become aware of the binding arbitration clause, the dealer often tells the buyer that they can't sell them the vehicle unless the binding arbitration clause is signed. At this point, all the advantages-certainly all the emotion-are on the side of the dealer. The buyer is salivating at the thought of driving away with that beautiful 220-horsepower monster, and, too often, surrenders to the dealer's claim that the clause is a "must sign" agreement before the car leaves the lot. Car dealers, by definition, are Negotiators, and consumers should remember this when they lock horns over questionable claims about the mandatory nature of binding arbitration clauses. Remar Sutton, the president of the Consumer Task Force for Automotive Issues (autoissues.org) lists some of the frauds that binding arbitration lets car dealers commit: 1. A dealership buys wrecked vehicles, repairs them, sells them to unsuspecting customers without disclosing the damage. The vehicle becomes a repair nightmare for the consumer and the dealer refuses to accept responsibility. 2. A dealership employee forges the consumer's credit statement and forces the consumer into an automobile loan that the consumer can't afford. When the forgery is discovered, the consumer is sued by the finance company. The consumer's credit is ruined. 3. A dealership trades in the consumer's old car, but never pays off the loan on the old car. The consumer is sued by the finance company and forced to pay thousands in damages. 4. A dealership buys lemon vehicles from the manufacturer, destroys the paper that shows the vehicles' histories, and sells the cars to consumers. Under arbitration, clear well established and consistent rules followed by courts are lacking. This makes it difficult for consumers to obtain information necessary to establish their claims – in contrast to court procedures, which provide for "discovery." Unless the arbitrators commit fraud, their decisions cannot be appealed and, in most cases, there are no reviews or other oversight to ensure fair procedures. In short, binding arbitration is anything but consumer friendly. While automobiles represent big investments for consumers (usually second only to purchases of homes), they are far from the only area where binding arbitration is imposed on consumers. Credit card companies, computer firms, electronic equipment sellers, insurance companies and home improvement contractors and large employers, among others, frequently slip in binding arbitration clauses that take away the consumers' right to address their grievances in courts of law. Consumers need to read these contracts closely to make certain they aren't giving away their rights to settle disputes in court. If companies insist on a binding arbitration agreement, just walk away from the transaction. You don't have to give away your rights as a citizen just for the privilege of purchasing an automobile or obtaining a credit card. It may take a little shopping, but there are choices in the marketplace where you can purchase a product and still keep your rights as a citizen. If more and more walk away, the vendors will start shaping up.

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