Sonic Yogi

the Prajapatis prayed to Lord Brahma Śrīmad Bhāgavatam 8.7.24 tvaḿ brahma paramaḿ guhyaḿ sad-asad-bhāva-bhāvanam nānā-śaktibhir ābhātas tvam ātmā jagad-īśvaraḥ SYNONYMS tvam — Your Lordship; brahma — impersonal Brahman; paramam — supreme; guhyam — confidential; sat-asat-bhāva-bhāvanam — the cause of varieties of creation, its cause and effect; nānā-śaktibhiḥ — with varieties of potencies; ābhātaḥ — manifest; tvam — you are; ātmā — the Supersoul; jagat-īśvaraḥ — the Supreme Personality of Godhead. TRANSLATION You are the cause of all causes, the self-effulgent, inconceivable, impersonal Brahman, which is originally Parabrahman. You manifest various potencies in this cosmic manifestation. PURPORT This prayer is offered to the impersonal Brahman, which consists of the effulgent rays of Parabrahman. Parabrahman is the Supreme Personality of Godhead (paraḿ brahma paraḿ dhāma pavitraḿ paramaḿ bhavān [bg. 10.12]). When Lord Śiva is worshiped as Parabrahman, the worship is meant for Lord Viṣṇu.

Prayers to Lord Siva: Śrīmad Bhāgavatam 8.7.23 guṇa-mayyā sva-śaktyāsya sarga-sthity-apyayān vibho dhatse yadā sva-dṛg bhūman brahma-viṣṇu-śivābhidhām SYNONYMS guṇa-mayyā — acting in three modes of activity; sva-śaktyā — by the external energy of Your Lordship; asya — of this material world; sarga-sthiti-apyayān — creation, maintenance and annihilation; vibho — O lord; dhatse — you execute; yadā — when; sva-dṛk — you manifest yourself; bhūman — O great one; brahma-viṣṇu-śiva-abhidhām — as Lord Brahmā, Lord Viṣṇu or Lord Śiva. TRANSLATION O lord, you are self-effulgent and supreme. You create this material world by your personal energy, and you assume the names Brahmā, Viṣṇu and Maheśvara when you act in creation, maintenance and annihilation. PURPORT This prayer is actually offered to Lord Viṣṇu, the puruṣa, who in His incarnations as the guṇa-avatāras assumes the names Brahmā, Viṣṇu and Maheśvara.

Śrīmad Bhāgavatam 8.7.22 tvam ekaḥ sarva-jagata īśvaro bandha-mokṣayoḥ taḿ tvām arcanti kuśalāḥ prapannārti-haraḿ gurum SYNONYMS tvam ekaḥ — Your Lordship is indeed; sarva-jagataḥ — of the three worlds; īśvaraḥ — the controller; bandha-mokṣayoḥ — of both bondage and liberation; tam — that controller; tvām arcanti — worship you; kuśalāḥ — persons who want good fortune; prapanna-ārti-haram — who can mitigate all the distresses of a sheltered devotee; gurum — you who act as a good advisor to all fallen souls. TRANSLATION O lord, you are the cause of bondage and liberation of the entire universe because you are its ruler. Those who are advanced in spiritual consciousness surrender unto you, and therefore you are the cause of mitigating their distresses, and you are also the cause of their liberation. We therefore worship Your Lordship. PURPORT Actually Lord Viṣṇu maintains and accomplishes all good fortune. If one has to take shelter of Lord Viṣṇu, why should the demigods take shelter of Lord Śiva? They did so because Lord Viṣṇu acts through Lord Śiva in the creation of the material world. Lord Śiva acts on behalf of Lord Viṣṇu. When the Lord says in Bhagavad-gītā (14.4) that He is the father of all living entities (ahaḿ bīja-pradaḥ pitā), this refers to actions performed by Lord Viṣṇu through Lord Śiva. Lord Viṣṇu is always unattached to material activities, and when material activities are to be performed, Lord Viṣṇu performs them through Lord Śiva. Lord Śiva is therefore worshiped on the level of Lord Viṣṇu. When Lord Viṣṇu is untouched by the external energy He is Lord Viṣṇu, but when He is in touch with the external energy, He appears in His feature as Lord Śiva.

Shiva wrote: Originally Posted by shiva Vishnu tattva means one thing only in Gaudiya theology: Vishnu means all-pervading; Vishnu-tattva refers to swamsa or plenary expansions of Krishna, that is they are all the same all-pervading supreme Lord. Vishnu-tattva is only applicable to someone who is all-pervading, only applicable to God. <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< Lord Siva is all pervading within the universe. That is your mistake to think that Lord Siva is not all pervading. Even Lord Brahma is all pervading. Sorry to burst your misconception. <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Śrīmad Bhāgavatam 8.7.21 śrī-prajāpataya ūcuḥ deva-deva mahā-deva bhūtātman bhūta-bhāvana trāhi naḥ śaraṇāpannāḿs trailokya-dahanād viṣāt SYNONYMS śrī-prajāpatayaḥ ūcuḥ — the prajāpatis said; deva-deva — O Lord Mahādeva, best of the demigods; mahā-deva — O great demigod; bhūta-ātman — O life and soul of everyone in this world; bhūta-bhāvana — O the cause of the happiness and flourishing of all of them; trāhi — deliver; naḥ — us; śaraṇa-āpannān — who have taken shelter at your lotus feet; trailokya — of the three worlds; dahanāt — which is causing the burning; viṣāt — from this poison. TRANSLATION The prajāpatis said: O greatest of all demigods, Mahādeva, Supersoul of all living entities and cause of their happiness and prosperity, we have come to the shelter of your lotus feet. Now please save us from this fiery poison, which is spreading all over the three worlds. PURPORT Since Lord Śiva is in charge of annihilation, why should he be approached for protection, which is given by Lord Viṣṇu? Lord Brahmā creates, and Lord Śiva annihilates, but both Lord Brahmā and Lord Śiva are incarnations of Lord Viṣṇu and are known as śaktyāveśa-avatāras. They are endowed with a special power like that of Lord Viṣṇu, who is actually all-pervading in their activities. Therefore whenever prayers for protection are offered to Lord Śiva, actually Lord Viṣṇu is indicated, for otherwise Lord Śiva is meant for destruction. Lord Śiva is one of the īśvaras, or the controllers known as śaktyāveśa-avatāras. Therefore he can be addressed as having the qualities of Lord Viṣṇu. <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> So, these are all slokas in 8th Canto in regards to Lord Siva, the husband of Bhavani, who drank the ocean of poison to save the universe. These verses were not offered to Sadasiva of Vaikuntha, but to Lord Siva in this universe. Srila Prabhupada says clearly here that Lord Siva is empowered with all-pervading and has the qualities of Lord Vishnu as such.

Posted by shiva In authentic Gaudiya theology there are two different Shivas. There is Sadashiva who is Vishnu Tattva and therefore non-different from Krishna, an example is Advaita Acharya being called an incarnation of Sadashiva. The other Shiva is the demigod Shiva who is different than Vishnu or Krishna. That is the Shiva who is married to Parvati and who was bewildered by the Mohini incarnation of Vishnu. That Shiva is a position which is usually held by a jiva (like Brahma), with a different demigod Shiva (and Brahma) in every Brahmanda. When there is no qualified jiva to fill those roles then Vishnu fills those roles. No, you are wrong. The husband of Parvati, Lord Siva is not a jiva. Siva is always in connection with Mahamaya, but that does not make him a jiva. When Siva is not in touch with Mahamaya, then he is the original Sadasiva who is the husband of Rama-devi, Lord Vishnu and is not the Sadasiva expansion that is in connection with Mahamaya. The second Sadasiva who is the consort of Mahamaya is the combination of Vishnu-tattva and Jiva tattva as Srila Prabhupada has explained. The second Sadasiva who is the expansion of the Vishnu Sadasiva is always in contact with Mahamaya and sometimes acts as Vishnu-tattva, as in his preserving the universe and protecting it from the kalakuta, and sometimes act in capacity of jiva to destroy the universe. The second Sadasiva who consorts with Mahamaya is this combination of Vishnu tattva and jiva tattva. Srila Prabhupada refers to him as shaktyavesha avatar which means a jiva who has been empowered with some Vishnu-tattva powers. Shakytavesha avatars are not jiva and are not Vishnu, they are combination of both. Ordinarily, the jiva cannot attain any powers to the level of Vishnu, but in the case of shaktyavesha there is some function of Vishnu working through the jiva. When Vishnu works through a jiva that is shaktyavesha avatar and is not ordinary jiva. In effect, a jiva can be empowered to function as Vishnu tattva. That is shaktyavesha avatar. At that time the jiva is not acting as a jiva but as Vishnu tattva or Siva tattva. These Shaktyavesha avatars do not have all the powers of Vishnu, but some powers of Vishnu are invested in them. The Bhagavatam describes several of these shaktyavesha avatars who were jivas that became empowered with some powers otherwise only found in Vishnu. That bottom line is that no Siva is a jiva inasmuch as Siva is shaktyavesha avatar of Lord Vishnu. Shaktyavesha avatars do not fit in the jiva category.

Shiva writes: "Those are from Prabhupada's Bhagavatam. The question of this thread was about the Gaudiya Vaisnava conception. Since Jiva Goswami is considered to be the greatest philosopher and was one of the founding acharyas in Gaudiya Vaisnavism his opinion certainly should be considered as representative of Gaudiya theology. I already quoted his opinion on this topic, he clearly states what I have stated: two different Shivas, one Vishnu tattva, the other not. Visvanath Chakravarti Thakura said the same exact thing and added that a jiva fills the position of the deva Shiva. He is also considered a major acharya for Gaudiya Vaisnavism. Sri Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Thakura said, "Visvanatha Cakravarti Thakura was the protector, guardian, and acarya during the middle period (1600-1700) of the historical development of Gaudiya Vaisnavism." You failed to answer where you are getting your quotes from Jiva Goswami and who it is that translated the verses. end quote *********************************************************** You failed to answer where you are getting your quotes from Jiva Goswami and who it is that translated the verses. As well, Jiva Goswami cannot go against the Bhagavatam which states that the Siva which drank the ocean of poison, the husband of Bhavani, is the Sadasiva. You refuse to acknowledge your sources of your so-called quotes from Jiva Goswami. It has nothing to do with "Srila Prabhupada's" Bhagavatam as you say, because it is not in the purport but in the original text that the husband of Bhavani (Parvati) is Sadasiva and many slokas in that chapter praise this Siva as being the Paramatma and many other statements to verify that this Siva is on the level of Vishnu tattva. I will trust Srila Prabhupada's version of your outside source information. I don't consider that Srila Prabhupada' purports are any less than those of any previous acharya or Goswami. At this point I don't think you are interested in siddhanta as much as you are defending your pride. You said that the husband of Parvati is a jiva and this is just not correct.

Originally Posted by Kulapavana If it was not for Prabhupada's authorization, I would not have taken diksa from him. ******************************* Prabhupada didn't authorize him to give diksha. He appointed him a ritvik. Your claim that Prabhupada authorized him to give diksha is a lie.

so, you are saying that Krishna is not pure Brahman because he has a form.

The conception of God and the conception of Absolute Truth are not on the same level. The Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam hits on the target of the Absolute Truth. The conception of God indicates the controller, whereas the conception of the Absolute Truth indicates the summum bonum or the ultimate source of all energies. There is no difference of opinion about the personal feature of God as the controller because a controller cannot be impersonal. Of course modern government, especially democratic government, is impersonal to some extent, but ultimately the chief executive head is a person, and the impersonal feature of government is subordinate to the personal feature. So without a doubt whenever we refer to control over others we must admit the existence of a personal feature. Because there are different controllers for different managerial positions, there may be many small gods. According to the Bhagavad-gītā any controller who has some specific extraordinary power is called a vibhūtimat sattva, or controller empowered by the Lord. There are many vibhūtimat sattvas, controllers or gods with various specific powers, but the Absolute Truth is one without a second. This Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam designates the Absolute Truth or the summum bonum as the paraḿ satyam. The author of Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, Śrīla Vyāsadeva, first offers his respectful obeisances unto the paraḿ satyam (Absolute Truth), and because the paraḿ satyam is the ultimate source of all energies, the paraḿ satyam is the Supreme Person. The gods or the controllers are undoubtedly persons, but the paraḿ satyam from whom the gods derive powers of control is the Supreme Person. The Sanskrit word īśvara (controller) conveys the import of God, but the Supreme Person is called the parameśvara, or the supreme īśvara. The Supreme Person, or parameśvara, is the supreme conscious personality, and because He does not derive any power from any other source, He is supremely independent. In the Vedic literatures Brahmā is described as the supreme god or the head of all other gods like Indra, Candra and Varuṇa, but the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam confirms that even Brahmā is not independent as far as his power and knowledge are concerned. He received knowledge in the form of the Vedas from the Supreme Person who resides within the heart of every living being. That Supreme Personality knows everything directly and indirectly. Individual infinitesimal persons, who are parts and parcels of the Supreme Personality, may know directly and indirectly everything about their bodies or external features, but the Supreme Personality knows everything about both His external and internal features.

Originally Posted by Kulapavana Pure Brahman has no form because it can take any form it likes. Can you quote shastric reference to support that claim? What verse from shastra did you get that idea from?

But, those quotes seems to be at odds with Srimad Bhagavatam. I don't know where you got those translation of if they are dependable. Here is the best explanation that I can find. Srila Prabhupada says that Siva is simultaneously an expansion of Vishnu and jiva. As the annihilator of the universe, the jiva aspect of Siva is acting. It doesn't appear as Siva is two different types but simultaneously a combination of jiva tattva and Vishnu tattva. As pointed out in this purport, the original Sadasiva in Vaikuntha is the consort of Rama-devi, so that makes the original Sadasiva a form of Vishnu that has not actually been transformed into the consort of Mahamaya. When Rama-devi transforms into Mahamaya, then Sadasiva transforms into Rudra. That Rudra Siva is simulataneously jiva tattva and Vishnu tattva. It appears that this combination of jiva tattva and Vishnu tattva is what we know as Siva-tattva. Śrī Caitanya Caritāmṛta Ādi 6.79 ananta brahmāṇḍe rudra — sadāśivera aḿśa guṇāvatāra teńho, sarva-deva-avataḿsa SYNONYMS ananta — unlimited; brahmāṇḍe — in the universes; rudra — Lord Śiva; sadāśivera aḿśa — part and parcel of Sadāśiva; guṇa-avatāra — an incarnation of a quality; teńho — he also; sarva-deva-avataḿsa — the ornament of all the demigods. TRANSLATION Rudra, who is an expansion of Sadāśiva and who appears in unlimited universes, is also a guṇāvatāra [qualitative incarnation] and is the ornament of all the demigods in the endless universes. PURPORT There are eleven expansions of Rudra, or Lord Śiva. They are as follows: Ajaikapāt, Ahibradhna, Virūpākṣa, Raivata, Hara, Bahurūpa, Devaśreṣṭha Tryambaka, Sāvitra, Jayanta, Pināki and Aparājita. Besides these expansions there are eight forms of Rudra called earth, water, fire, air, sky, the sun, the moon and soma-yājī. Generally all these Rudras have five faces, three eyes and ten arms. Sometimes it is found that Rudra is compared to Brahmā and considered a living entity. But when Rudra is explained to be a partial expansion of the Supreme Personality of Godhead, he is compared to Śeṣa. Lord Śiva is therefore simultaneously an expansion of Lord Viṣṇu and, in his capacity for annihilating the creation, one of the living entities. As an expansion of Lord Viṣṇu he is called Hara, and he is transcendental to the material qualities, but when he is in touch with tamo-guṇa he appears contaminated by the material modes of nature. This is explained in Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam and the Brahma-saḿhitā. In Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, Tenth Canto, it is stated that Lord Rudra is always associated with the material nature when she is in the neutral, unmanifested stage, but when the modes of material nature are agitated he associates with material nature from a distance. In the Brahma-saḿhitā the relationship between Viṣṇu and Lord Śiva is compared to that between milk and yogurt. Milk is converted into yogurt by certain additives, but although milk and yogurt have the same ingredients, they have different functions. Similarly, Lord Śiva is an expansion of Lord Viṣṇu, yet because of his taking part in the annihilation of the cosmic manifestation, he is considered to be changed, like milk converted into yogurt. In the Purāṇas it is found that Śiva appears sometimes from the heads of Brahmā and sometimes from the head of Viṣṇu. The annihilator, Rudra, is born from Sańkarṣaṇa and the ultimate fire to burn the whole creation. In the Vāyu Purāṇa there is a description of Sadāśiva in one of the Vaikuṇṭha planets. That Sadāśiva is a direct expansion of Lord Kṛṣṇa's form for pastimes. It is said that Sadāśiva (Lord Śambhu) is an expansion from the Sadāśiva in the Vaikuṇṭha planets (Lord Viṣṇu) and that his consort, Mahāmāyā, is an expansion of Ramā-devī, or Lakṣmī. Mahāmāyā is the origin or birthplace of material nature.

Which verse in particular are you paraphrasing? Are we supposed to read the whole chapter to try and find what you think you found there? Quote the verse which says that Lord Siva is not "God". This all refers to Lord Siva the husband of Bhavani. The Sadasiva in Vaikuntha is the husband of Laksmi. In other words, the Sadasiva of Vaikuntha is Maha-Vishnu.

Your statements are not consistent with Srimad Bhagavatam. In 8th Canto ch. 7, the Siva who is the consort of Bhavani (Paravati) is described as being the all-pervasive Sadasiva: This is the guna-avatar Siva, husband of Parvati. Bhavani is another name for Parvati. All these slokas in the Bhagavatam were offered to Lord Siva, the husband of Bhavani, the guna-avatar who is shaktyavesha avatar of Lord Vishnu. Lord Siva is only jiva in his form for destroying the universe at the time of pralaya.

In this prayer to Lord Siva in Srimad Bahgavatam, the Prajapatis declared that even Lord Brahma cannot understand Lord Siva. So, understanding Siva-tattva fully is not possible. Lord Siva is Yogisvara, so by his mystic powers he will forever remain mysterious. Siva is Vishnu acting in connection with the material energy - Durga. We have already seen slokas from the Bhagavat that establish that. However, Siva is worshiped for the attainment of sayujya-mukti or the oneness with Brahman. The Vedanta Sutra describes it: So, yes, if you want sayujya-mukti, then worship Lord Siva. If you prefer the concept of spiritual forms, spiritual love, spiritual sense pleasures etc. etc, then that is attained in worship of Vishnu or Krishna. So, depending on what your spiritual goals are, you will find either Siva or Vishnu as supreme. For attaining ekatva mukti in ONENESS with Brahman, then Siva is supreme God. If you want to sport and play and frolic in spiritual paradise, then you most certainly would find worship of Krishna to be best. Siva worship leads to ONENESS with Brahman. Vaishnavas consider such sayujya mukti to be totally undesirable. So, which God is greater? Depends on whether you want ONENESS with Brahman or eternal lila with Krishna in Vrindavan.

Srila Prabhupada substituted "demigods" for "gods" because Gaudiya Vaishnavism is not pantheism and the term "gods" has always been associated with pantheism. It was a very wise semantic device that helps to distinguish The Gaudiya monotheism from the largely polytheism that Hinduism is mainly known for in the western world and even in Asia. Srila Prabhupada's use of the term "demigod" was a very ingenius adaptation that demonstrates the Gaudiya Vaishnava monotheistim and separates it from the polytheistic Hindusim. There is only ONE God in Gaudiya Vaishnavism, hence Srila Prabhupada translates "deva" as demigods so as to try and prevent any misunderstanding that there are many gods and not ONE supreme God.

That is a Shaiva Upanisad and it is not a principal Upanisad that even Sankaracarya commented on. Shankar acknowledged 10 principle Upanisads for the basis of his Advaita Vedanta. 1. Aitareya (ṚV) 2. Bṛhadāraṇyaka (ŚYV) 3. Taittirīya (KYV) 4. Chāndogya (SV) 5. Kena (SV) 6. Īṣa (ŚYV) 7. Śvetāśvatara(KYV) 8. Kaṭha (KYV) 9. Muṇḍaka (AV) 10. Māṇḍūkya (AV) 11. Praśna (AV) As such, the Upanisad that you have quoted is not a mukhya Upanisad that Shankar commented on in formulating his Advaita doctrine. Different Upanisads were meant for different classes of people. For those who could not follow the Mukhya Upanisads, there are are the Shaiva Upanisads. In the Muktika Upanishad's list of 108 Upanishads the first 10 are grouped as mukhya "principal". 21 are grouped as Sāmānya Vedānta "common Vedanta", 23 as Sannyāsa, 9 as Shākta, 13 as Vaishnava, 14 as Shaiva and 17 as Yoga Upanishads. There are Upanisads specifically meant for those souls who cannot adopt the sattvic Vishnu worship. For them, there are the Shaiva oriented Upanisads aimed at developing their worship of Siva. Shankar knew he could not establish his Advaita siddhanta on the basis of Shaiva Upanisads, so he commented only on the Mukhya Upanisads listed above.

Here is a nice verse that reveals some valuable insight into the greatness of Lord Siva. Lord Siva is very dear to the Gaudiya Vaishnavas. He is well loved, venerated and in fact worshiped. The Gaudiya acharyas have several times stated that Siva-tattva is something that is very difficult to explain because of the very narrow difference between Siva and Vishnu. Siva-tattva is perhaps the most enigmatic concept in all of Hindu theology as there is the full form of Siva-tattva and partial manifestations of Siva tattva in the form of the Rudras who are most often empowerd Jivas. Siva is a tattva. There are full forms of that tattva and there are partial manifestation of Siva-tattva. So, the subject of Siva-tattva is not something that is easily dealt with in a few forums posts. Siva-tattva is inconceivable to the conditioned living beings.

The point is that Vishnu is the Supreme God in regards to this material world that is administrated by the Trimurti of Brahma, Siva and Vishnu. Krishna is not involved in administrating the acit-jagat. In fact Krishna is not involved in administrating the cit-jagat as that is also done by the Catur-Vyuha - Vasudeva, Sankarsan, Pradyumna and Anniruddha. Krishna only enjoys lila on his planet of Krsnaloka. So, this statement you are grappling with is in regards to who is the supreme God of the material world. It is the matter of amongst the Tri-murti which one is supreme. The Vaishnava scholars and devotees have presented many Vedic references to support the supremecy of Vishnu. Even in Krishnaloka, Krishna is not understood to be supreme God. On Krishnaloka they worship the Lord Narayana as God as the inhabitants there are under the spell of yogamaya and forgetful of Krishna's supreme Godship. The Gaudiya acharyas and Goswamis have shown with authoritative evidence that Krishna is the source of Narayana, but even in Krishnaloka they are caused to forget that by yogamaya so they can enjoy intimate love with Krishna devoid of awe and reverence of his supreme Godship. So, the very religious people of Vrindavan worship Lord Narayana as God in awe and reverence. They have the intimate personal love with Krishna. So, in that sense, even on Krsnaloka, Lord Narayana is thought to be God.

How India can be united? In India there are hundreds of different languages. In India there are at least 29 languages that have more than 1 million people. India has as many religions are there are gods and goddesses. India has more cults and sects than any country in the world. The British united India and then established self-rule and divided India and Pakistan. The only thing that can unite India is a secular democratic government as the British helped establish upon granting India self-rule. There are too many religions and languages in India to be united by anything except a democratic government which is the gift of the British. The British conquered India but came to love India and it's people. If not for the British, India would be ruled by Muslims. So, at least you can thank the British for that.

Shambhu is the glance of Lord Maha-Vishnu. When Maha-Vishnu glances at prakriti, the portion of Maha-Vishnu that contacts Durga Devi is Shambhu. Maha-Vishnu cannot have any connection with Durga as Durga is the material energy. In order for Maha-Vishnu to contact Durga he must become Shambhu. As Maha-Vishnu glances at Durga he transforms into Sadasiva or Shambhu. In so doing he transforms into Sadasiva, but that Sadasiva cannot then again function as Vishnu. Vishnu becomes Shambhu, but Shambhu cannot become Vishnu. As well, Siva cannot award Vaikuntha mukti. Only Vishnu can award that. Siva can only award Mahesha dhama mukti which does not contain any of the ecstacies of Hari bhakti-rasa. Mahesha Dhama mukti involves muktananda and asta-siddhi, but it does not include prema-rasa that is intrinsic to Hari Dhama mukti. The highest spiritual ecstacies can only be eperienced by the Krishna bhaktas of Goloka Dhama. The Hari bhakti rasa of Goloka is millions of times greater than muktananda of Mahesha Dham of Lord Shambhu which exists between the Devi Dhama and Vaikuntha Dhama. There is higher spiritual ecstacy beyond mukti. Beyond mukti is Hari bhakti rasa which is much sweeter and more flavorful than mukti. Mukti is like pure water. Hari-bhakti is like mango juice.