suryaz

Don't know about Kashmir. One of us will have to look that bit up - Humm just to get things right

What are you implying - Bhaktivinoda also said the Aryans were alien to the land-mass of what is today called India. Just also to add – Prabhupada said in a lecture in Melbourne Australia in either 1976 of 1975 (one of the two) that whites are Aryans. Moreover, he said whites or fair skinned people are the descendents of Maharaja Pariksit. [This message has been edited by suryaz (edited 11-20-2001).]

What is “India” today is not what people pre-1947 may have referred to in short as 'India'. Post the Act of 1858 (which saw the British Crown assumed direct charge of government in the Indian sub-continent, up until -1947 was, what is to day called Bangladesh, Pakistan and Sri Lanka (some other islands also) plus “India”. The above were a collection of British colonies referred to as the Asian sub-continent aks the Indian sub-continent. What is called India today pre British rule was a collection of separate Hindu kingdoms in the south and the northern part of what we today call India, plus Bangladesh and Pakistan were under Muslim rule from the beginning of the 13th century. [This message has been edited by suryaz (edited 11-19-2001).]

"...Krsna-samhita (1879)..... Bhaktivinoda was attempting to analyze Indian history and to show the development of Vaishnavism according to what he called the adhunika-vada, or the modern approach...... Bhaktivinoda was showing that it was indeed possible to take a critical look at one's own tradition, and at the same time maintain a deep and abiding faith within that tradition..... ." Herein Bhaktivinoda states: 1. The Aryans first entered India from the North West and subjugated the indigenous tribes around 4463 B.C. ..." (Shukavac).

What is PBS?

The British did not. While “slavery” has been around since the time of yore - In South America there were the Incurs etc wherein human sacrifice and slavery were the norm. The Druids promoted human sacrifice. Historically recorded: In Africa it is historically recorded in early Egypt there was the enslavement and ethnic cleansing of the Jews. The Aryan invasion of the Dravidians was also a form of ethnic cleansing and colonisation of a people. The institution of the caste system was (and in some places still is) a form of slavery for the sudras. Human sacrifice was also a religious deal Ancient Rome promoted slavery, ethnic cleansing and colonialism. African tribes freely sold people from neighbouring tribes as slaves among themselves (before the Portuguese started buying them) These are just a few. Another important view is that: Women have in any point in history been sold as slaves in the name of marriage by modern and/or indigenous groups So who does the jewel of the “crown jewels” belong to? Perhaps it should go the to poor sudra (slave) who found it in the mine. Dear Janus, You certainly wrote and interesting letter – thank you. Yes you are right Janus – my aim is to create further thinking – that is all – win or lose whatever – Humm - you are right, Yes I am human and I have feelings (emotions). When something is conceived and/or presented as perfect but creates more hurt than betterment I tend to object. I liked Buddy’s tone better Love Suryaz [This message has been edited by suryaz (edited 11-15-2001).]

Genetic engineering has been around for thousands of years. "Arranged marriage" is a socio-cultural form of genetic engineering yet it is accepted as ethically profound by some - it is even described as a first class marriage - Can we say that that which takes the freedom of the individual's choice is profound? Can we say that it is done for the betterment of society and therfore OK? If so, then why not genetically engineer offspring in what ever way it can be done to create betterment? Suryaz confused: [This message has been edited by suryaz (edited 11-15-2001).]

According to Haberman, the physical Vraja, a tract of land in the vicinity of the North Indian city of Mathura, has only been a major centre for the worship of Krsna since the sixteenth century when the followers of Caitanya Mahaprabhu and other Vaisnavas "rediscovered" the lost sites of Krsna's pastimes. Haberman states that these sites never really existed before the sixteenth century and weren't "rediscovered" but "projected" onto the physical landscape of Vraja from the transcendental landscape perceived in meditation. (Thompson, Richard "Reflections of the Relation Between Religion and Modern Rationalism") however: “…Padma Puraa.na points to a southern origin for bhakti, and provides a clue to the geographical location of some Puraa.nic traditions as well” (Demmitt & van Buitenen 1978:11). “ ‘Bhakti was born in Draavidha, grew up in Kar.naataka, became worn out in MaharaaS.tra and Gurjera, sought refuge with her two sons Knowledge and Dispassion in Vrindavana, and regained her vigor there… Enough of vows, sacred fords, disciples, sacrifices, discourse about knowledge, faith alone bestows release!(Padma Puraa.na 6.189.51; 190.22)’” (Demmitt & van Buitenen 1978:11). When was the Padma Puraa.na was written? [This message has been edited by suryaz (edited 11-15-2001).]

There is no doubt that there are elements of truth in both approaches Viz: rational and sacred-faithic. The purpose of the puranas, as with the Gaudiya religion is to kindle sacred faith. However Bhaktivinoda Thakura also claims that in order to achieve this sacred faith (mukhya view), there may also be a preliminary inclusion of rational analysis. Interpretations of that nurture (rationalism) also create a tendency to disregard material written (eg puranas) for those of the nurture of sacred faith (mukhya view) and/or to increase that nature. Those who use rationalism as a preliminary mechanism to advance towards the faithic view (mukhya view) are madhyamacaris. The nature of the faithic view (of the puranas) becomes sacred tradition (or spiritual) only when it does not contain influences of Komala-sraddhas. When the characteristic of what the Komala-sraddhas’s promote eg - ritual as the means, superstition, insidious dogmatic approach and local custom the approach conceptualisation of the purana are mythic. As such the puranas are identified as myth when rationalists analyse the puranas in terms of the mind-set of the Komala-sraddhas.

This is interesting but take a look at Bhaktivinoda Thakura's YANG-YIN-yang-yin analysis (two tiered or yang-yin reflective analysis) Or should I say YIN-YANG-yin-yang YIN = MUKHYA-TEACHINGS IN TERMS OF SACRED FAITH = uttamadikari YANG = MUKHYA TEACHING + RATIONAL ANALYSIS = madhyamadakari yin = religious faith and sentiment of Komala-sraddhas yang = knowledge of biological needs and wants There is no doubt that there are elements of truth in both approaches Viz: rational and sacred-faithic. The purpose of the puranas, as with the Gaudiya religion is to kindle sacred faith. However Bhaktivinoda Thakura also claims that in order to achieve this sacred faith (mukhya view), there may also be a preliminary inclusion of rational analysis. Interpretations of that nurture (rationalism) also create a tendency to disregard material written (eg puranas) for those of the nurture of sacred faith (mukhya view) and/or to increase that nature. Those who use rationalism as a preliminary mechanism to advance towards the faithic view (mukhya view) are madhyamacaris. The nature of the faithic view (of the puranas) becomes sacred tradition (or spiritual) only when it does not contain influences of Komala-sraddhas. When the characteristic of what the Komala-sraddhas’s promote eg - ritual as the means, superstition, insidious dogmatic approach and local custom the approach conceptualisation of the purana are mythic. As such the puranas are identified as myth when rationalists analyse the puranas in terms of the mind-set of the Komala-sraddhas. Hummm!! it looks like there is some Kabalah influence here to me - YHvh - Except in Bhaktivinoda's equation it is Hvhy (is it not?) Suryaz [This message has been edited by suryaz (edited 11-15-2001).]

Humm happy Deepawali to you also Aravindakshinaah Furhtermore - happy Deepawali to all who read this Suryaz [This message has been edited by suryaz (edited 11-14-2001).]

quote: Originally posted by Janus:Jijaji To us Bhaktivinode Thakur is an acharya, but to the British he was simple another “Woggy”, a term referring to a mudperson, a pollywog, something lower in evolution, not really a human at all, or at best a savage. Perhaps the Thakur was accounted as being halfway humanized (but confined to a place among the lower races such as the Americans) because a time or two he perhaps wore pants............. .......Marijuana? the British couldn't care less, just added already to the Hindu fatalism........... ** Ok...anyone else? Suryaz: The Act of 1833 out ruled discrimination against a person in terms of caste colour creed etc. (Clauses: 85-9; Copeland 1941) The Act of 1853 rendered placement in the Civil Service (in India) determined through one's qualification in terms of education, ability and integrity (Copeland 1941; Muir ???:304) The Act of 1858 saw the British Crown assume "direct charge of government in India". Queen Victoria encouraged her administration to govern for the "benefit of all her subjects" and respect the "ancient rites, usages and customs of India" (Copeland 1941:36). Queen Victoria encouraged her administration to govern for the "benefit of all her subjects" and respect the "ancient rites, usages and customs of India" (Copeland 1941:36). IP: Logged Jndas: Then why did she steal all the jewels from the temples in India for her "crown jewels"? Even today they refuse to return them. Of course, seeing the indian government I don't think it would be a very good idea anyway. Originally posted by jndas:Then why did she steal all the jewels from the temples in India for her "crown jewels"? Even today they refuse to return them. Of course, seeing the indian government I don't think it would be a very good idea anyway. Suryaz: Queen Victoria did not steal the “crown jewels”. Where is your proof of this? When, where, and how did she steal them? There are so many fables about these things.

Hummm What??? As if boils could come from eating mangos in the summer ???????????). What Twaddle [This message has been edited by suryaz (edited 11-10-2001).]

To Pinaki http://www.sosig.ac.uk/roads/subject-listing/World-cat/sociol.html

"RELIGIONS" The best sociological definition of “religion” I have found is as follows: Religion is a set of symbols that act to constitute a powerful pervasive and long lasting mood. It motivates one by forming conception of the universal order, and clothes those conception with an aura of felicity so that mood and motivation seem uniquely realistic (Geertz) Of "WHICH ORIGINATED THOUSANDS OF YEARS BACK CAN JUSTIFY THE DYNAMIC GLOBAL CHANGES IN ONE'S LIFE AND PERCEPTIONS IN THE CURRENT SITUATION. " If arguing from the sociological perspective I would argue primarily against the above As mentioned previously: Our world is a work in motion and one small change can create many other changes. Each needs to be dealt with within it own context of analysis. However that is not to say religious belief cannot act with psychological benefit for its practitioners Remember in sociology, religion does not hold any special position of sacredness. That is to say it is not treated with special status above and beyond any other sociological phenomenon. [This message has been edited by suryaz (edited 11-08-2001).]

Australia is just as hot in summer (in some places) as India is. Mangos grow well. In places farmers place large amounts of mangos among other fruits on 'honesty box stands" by the edge of their properties. People can take the fruit and leave some money in the honesty box. As such mangos are plentiful and cheap to purchase, however the staff infection rate is low here. I fear catching boils in India (as with anywhere else in the world)has more to do with lack of hygiene than anything else. [This message has been edited by suryaz (edited 11-08-2001).]

its tail as with its 'spinal nerve chord' in 1500 - 800 BC is more like it [This message has been edited by suryaz (edited 11-07-2001).]

I believe it has more to do with the Hindu world-view - caste system influences. The caste system takes its origin in the Purusha-sukta (Rg Veda). Vedicism has a history of reform towards the end of the Upanishad period (800 BC) when in Orthodox Brahmanism there occurred a shift away from yajan and jnana and more towards the notion of dharma as found in the Manu-samita. Since then in Brahminism as with Hinduism a person is firstly part of the Varata –purusha (and viewed firstly in terms of one's position in the caste system - dharma). For the benefit of society one must perform one’s duty (dharma) as Jagat-purusha intended, and as designed by him in correlation to one’s karma. Although since Gandhi’s influences the caste system has been made obsolete in India it is still built into the psyche of its Hindu inhabitants (in terms of primary socialisation). Hindu’s generally do not encourage each other (off-spring) to invent new ways of creative living – rather one is enculturated to continue with tried and proven ways of socialisation as given in custom, tradition and scriptures (Rg Veda’s views mentioned above about Virata-purusha and Laws of Manu). In other words in Indian Hinduism the individual is socialised as a member of a pre-ordained social network with distinct parameters. As such a person from the time of birth pretty much knows his/her duty within the family, society and community to which he/she is born On the other hand in Western society (western socialisation) the individual as Sartre would put it is expected to “create his/her own destiny”. The individual is to decide which occupation he/she wants to peruse and is encouraged through both primary and secondary forms of socialisation to do so. The individual is encouraged to try-out and test new hypothesis and bring about newer and more modified results for the benefit of not only the self but society as well (whereby these modifications may at any time transcend previously accepted socially accepted notions and practices). Having said the above I believe it is the lack of modification to the changing natural and environmental conditions that have some affect (as with the desire to continue with cultural or religious notions that are out of kilter with the type of society India is today) that influence the social climate as it appears in India today. In short: in Western society’s system of socialisation one is expected to modify one’s approach and practices in a world of changing natural and social conditions. In India one is encouraged to fit into a preordained system in a world that is in motion and thus changes. Our world is a world in motion And one small change creates many other changes The social world in particular is ever changing The trouble is some societies what to hang on to the past as perfect in a world of change In so doing is not a fallacy created??? [This message has been edited by suryaz (edited 11-07-2001).]

This is an interesting way of viewing the nama-hatta of Bhaktivinoda ............................ X-Originating-IP: [203.23.155.1] "chitta hari" <chittahari@hotmail.com> news@vnn.org Cc: yaso_dasa@hotmail.com Nama Hatta Tue, 06 Nov 2001 15:23:26 +1100 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 06 Nov 2001 04:23:29.0613 (UTC) FILETIME=[C985FFD0:01C1667A] BHAJAN NEWSLETTER About 100 years ago, Srila Bhaktivinode Thakur predicted in West Bengal, that "the chanting of the holy names of Radha Krishna would soon be heard in every town and village throughout the world".In fact he even predicted the process by which they would be spread and called it NAMA HATTA or 'market place of the holy names'. In this market you can purchase love of Radha Krishna and the only price is the intensity of your desire to aquire that love. Bhaktivinode developed the process of 'multi level marketing' as the spreading method of these transcendental commodities. Anyone who hears these holy names in the NAMA HATTA may then open their own NAMA HATTA and spread the holy names among their friends and associates. In this way the Nama Kirtan goes from house to house and town to town. An ideal Nama Hatta includes : 1. Chanting of the Holy Names 2. Delicious prasad offered to Krishna 3. Stories and discussions about Krishna. Our NAMA HATTA at Darlinghurst is happening on the following dates and you are most welcome to attend. Note: Dwaip's 'famous pakoras and chutney' now added to menu.

I don't know Tarun - Humm!!! ->-> maybe the puzzle is to puzzle the puzzled A paradoxical puzzle that epitomises puzzle-continued (you know that feeling "puzzle-smile-puzzle continued-->-->"); and in so doing creates puzzle paradoxia That is the best I can do on the puzzle that puzzles the reader - who is then further puzzled about being puzzled about what he/she read -and is again even more puzzled by that - especially when asked if its understanding is understood. [This message has been edited by suryaz (edited 11-05-2001).]

= ->-> [This message has been edited by suryaz (edited 11-05-2001).]

I think that maybe the funny thing about it is that: we even took the time to try to work it out

Why???

Humm, Yes I get it - Melvin (senior) spammes because he wants to keep his status as a “senior member”. It would appear he unconsciously suffers from an inferiority complex (among others) and wants to ensure the continuity of his senior status. - closely relates with “The Mind of the Fanatic” [This message has been edited by suryaz (edited 11-02-2001).]