Kulapavana

every ray has a form of light. see the hiranmayena patrena verse in Isa Upanishad (verse 15) hiranmayena patrena satyasyapihitam mukham tat tvam pushann apavrinu satya-dharmaya drishtaye the true form of the Lord is covered by the dazzling light of brahmajyoti. svarupya (achieving the same form as the Lord) is a deeper level of spirituality. in brahmajyoti we are just light.

Arjuna killed Karna because he liked the idea of justice and serving God in the execution of his social duties. It was a deliberate and free decision.

For the umptinth time: There is a HUGE gap between theory and practice. In theory, Iskcon as set up by Prabhupada claims to be the most perfect expression of sanatana-dharma, non-sectarian to the core, yet up close it was quite far from that ideal. How is dressing up in traditional Vaishnava robes non-sectarian? How is painting tilak non-sectarian? How is interpreting Gita along the Saraswata parivar line non sectarian? How is the Gaudiya Vaishnava temple worship non sectarian? The list goes on and on... One of the reasons people dont take our movement seriously is because we are completely unable to look at ourselves in a critical way, and with intellectual honesty admit to our own limitations. We have a shocking, GRAND case of megalomania, yet we think of ourselves as the best of the best, savior of the world in all categories. That is a total fantasy and I am often embarassed when devotees think and talk in that way. A little humility goes a long way.

I worry that the word sahajiya is used in our movement as a weapon, without any regard for it's actual meaning. This process started long ago, but I believe we should go back to the original sense of this term. Outside the Saraswata parivar nobody is using this word in that way. To me, imitating higher devotional sentiments has nothing to do with being a sahajiya. Devotee who prematurely thinks of himself as a gopi is a fool and a pretender, but he is not a sahajiya. There is a very, very fine line between imitation and striving to reach a higher platform. As to real sahajiyas - there is simply no room for them in our parivar. They are much better off among their own people, at least if they are sincere in their desire for purification and admittance to Krsna lila. But if they are just lusty materialists looking for cheap kicks, they should drop all pretenses and join ranks with the rest of the sex crazed population instead of pretending to be spiritualists.

You can call me what you like, but words have established meaning and if you are using them you have to follow the standard and not invent new meanings: Here are 3 definitions of the word sectarian: Of, relating to, or characteristic of a sect. Adhering or confined to the dogmatic limits of a sect or denomination; partisan. Narrow-minded; parochial. 1. Prabhupada did separate his movement from even the group he originally came from.2. He did set up very distinct limits for his movement, a lot of which were quite arbitrary or dogmatic. 3. He was quite broad minded in sense of philosophy and reaching out to various groups of people, but the same can hardly be said about his social views. Yet even within that broad category of philosophy he placed some very stiff interpretations of his own tradition, usually insisting on very literal interpretation of the scriptures. How does all that add up to being non-sectarian I do not really know. In my opinion Prabhupada was sectarian in some areas and non-sectarian in others. <!-- __ADSHERE -->

The reality was that he would not even consider his own godbrother's Mathas as equally valid and transcendental as compared with his own movement, and that mentality still exists in Iskcon. How is that for non-sectarian? He banned the books of Bon Maharaja and other GM writers from his movement. How is that for non-sectarian? To you he was non sectarian because he said Christianity was also Vaishnavism... whatever works for you, brother. We can all claim what we want, on paper and in words. Yet, it is the reality on the ground that counts. At least in the mind of rational people. Our movement is not, and was not, nonsectarian in practice.

if you can't attract non-Hindus to participate in Iskcon, no wonder Iskcon managers go after the easy target audience - ethnic Hindus. but as to Iskcon ever being a non-sectarian organization, that is extremely debatable. I doubt anybody on the outside would have ever seen our movement in that way. In theory and in abstract principle - maybe, just maybe - but in practice we were always very sectarian.

Brahman (brahmajyoti) is called "impersonal" in the same sense that the crowd of people is seen as "impersonal". Still, in both cases we are dealing with a vast number of individual persons. Each minute ray (spark or particle) of brahmajyoti is actually a living entity, who is a person.

I agree with that. Quite a few of these people realized very early on that they can live a very good life by positioning themselves on top of the Iskcon authoritarian power pyramid. They created a system of cronies and kliques, undetected by the naive and trusting rank and file devotees. To some extent this system continues even today. The authoritarian system Srila Prabhupada introduced in Iskcon was their best ally. Devotees were indoctrinated to blindly trust and obey "authorities", and have faith that "Krsna is in control" (i.e. do not try to question what is happening around you). Devotees saw childern and adults abused in various way but because of this brainwashing they thought: "This is the way of full surrender". All the power was placed in the hands of sannyasis, who were young, inexperienced, and completely unsuitable for that ashram. Toward the end Srila Prabhupada realized that giving such people sannyasa was a serious mistake, but there was no time for a real reform. The mold was set, and the disasters followed. To this very day real power is in the hands of the same group of people, and the mentality hardly changed a whole lot. The same slogan is still used to brainwash new people: "The system is perfect. Only your vision is wrong. Become perfect first before you criticize us." Power corrupts. That is why you need a system of checks and balances when it comes to power. Thanks to the internet you can study what happened and who did what in Iskcon. The same people who failed in the past are in power today. Very little accountability. People who could not figure out that Kirtanananda was a total crook run Iskcon today and they are still clueless, or pretend to be so in order to stay in power.

You are not Lord Caitanya's associate. Do not beat yourself over the head for not being able to do everything right. Be happy with what you have and humbly aspire to be better every day. What is the use of giving up the body? Try to serve Krsna by serving Vaishnavas and by helping in their preaching work.

This is total BS. You "Prabhupadavadis" have no clue how it all works. Like anybody had a choice in zonal acharya days? Or even later. You think I did not learn a lot from Harikesha? What a joke... You should not talk such nonsense. The real guru is Krsna. Even in Prabhupada. Same with people like Harikesha and others. You think we wanted to be "cheated" and that is why it happened? That we were not "thorough enough"? You folks live in a dreamworld... Were YOU "thorough" when accepting Prabhupada? Were you "thorough" when serving under Bhavanada or crooks and liars like him? Lets hear some stories of you standing up to corruption and abuse in Iskcon. Personally, I dont feel cheated at all. I probably learned more from my experiences than you ever did. It is the parrot like devotees who irritate me with their naive simplicity and mindles slogans. You say: "And do not be afraid to question everything a senior devotee does." Did YOU question anything Prabhupada did? Somehow I doubt that very much. You took it all as gospel, and you still do.

This is wishful thinking. the cat is out of the bag. hardly anybody comes to Iskcon without having some knowledge of Iskcon's chequered history. The only thing you can do is help them process all the information they already have, and give them a way to relate to what they will hear in the future. Last thing Iskcon needs is another generation of kept in the dark bhaktas who are thought of as incapable of sorting out truth from lies. Such devotees eventually find out all about the past problems in our movement and will feel that they were cheated.

Why do people do what they do? Mostly because they like it. Shiva-ji says: "So to answer your question, the people who take up some type of sahajiya practice, do so because that is their karma. They do what they are forced to do." If you look still deeper, you will see that karma is a result of our desires. That voice within tells us how to fulfill them. We desire things we like, or think we would like. Ultimately, at the very bottom of the cause-and-effect pile is our desire.

yes, look even at the dates of the reign of kings these two people represented. they are separated by at least 70 years. That would mean that your Heliodorus would have to be about 100 years old when serving in India. What was an average lifespan in these days? 30-40 years. On top of that you have completely different geographical areas of activity.

I know that article and I know the subject matter from various angles (Heliodorus column). The Hare Christian cross-breeds create "reality" out of their wishful thinking, disregarding reason, logic, and very solid research done on both sides of that issue. When one challenges their pet theories, they attack him for being "sectarian"... There is no science in their approach, just pure sentiment.

LOL! no, because NOBODY in the academic circles believes these two Heliodoruses are the same person.

Please! take time and do even the most rudimentary research on the subject before you come up with such theories. Heliodorus used to be quite a popular name and everything we know about these two Heliodoruses indicates they were completely different people. As to being sectarian... I can only laugh at that. I feel connected to so many traditions - from Gaudiya Vaishnavism to monism, from Christainity to "pagan" shamanism, from mystic yoga to tantra.

AHAHAH! indeed... Heliodorus From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia <!-- start content -->Several persons named Heliodorus are known to us from ancient times, the best known of which is Heliodorus of Emesa, author of the novel Aethiopica. Heliodorus a minister of Seleucus IV Philopator ca. 175 BC Heliodorus a Greek ambassador who erected famous votive Heliodorus pillar near Vidisha, Madhya Pradesh, India Heliodorus of Athens ancient author who wrote fifteen books on the Acropolis of Athens, possibly about 150 BC. Heliodorus a metrist in the 1st century AD who did work on the comedies of Aristophanes Heliodorus a surgeon, probably from Egypt, and mentioned in the Satires of Juvenal Heliodorus (philosopher) the author of a work entitled Commentary (564 AD) Heliodorus a Mesopotamian bishop and martyr Heliodorus a legendary character from Catania ------------- just stick to what you know for a fact, do not make up anymore fairytales that already circulate among the devotees

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fq0gV5NC-xU modern take on the Deep Purple Classic

I have found that reason and logic are completely ineffective when dealing with people's sentiments. People will see what they want to see, and they will find enough arguments to support their claim. Ultimately who cares if bhakta X considers the God of Old Testament to be Lord Vishnu? To me it is a bizzare claim, but if it keeps bhakta X inspired, what is the harm? If acharyas make clear distinction between Lord Shiva and Lord Vishnu, and between Vaishnavas and Shivaites, the claim that Christians are Vaishnavas is 100% bogus because Christian God is the God of Old Testament, and there is no way any serious Vaishnava scholar would claim that it is Lord Vishnu. It may a smart preaching tactic to call Christians "Vaishnavas" - like Prabhupada did, but it is not consistent with our teachings. There I go with more reason and logic....

Yes, he can be viewed in that way as well. One step in the long march of true Dharma in the West.

they work fine, didi indulekha, thank you very much. very sweet bhajans!

I think it was even more complicated. It all started with Prabhupada singing Bhaja Sri Krsna Caitanya. When Prabhupada found out that the temple next door chanted like that as well, he made the change to "jaya" from "bhaja".

Smith and a few other Freemasons created their church on the order from their Lodge. That book is fake, just like their completely man made religion. They all actually serve the Masonic Order, just like Opus Dei does.

This is the problem in all authoritarian organizations. Power corrupts, and a lot of power corrupts a lot... The move to replace one Acharya with a GBC (as done by both Bhaktisiddhanta and Prabhupada) was a step in the right direction, but it did not go far enough, as the way of selecting GBCs is completly autocratic and does not provide any system of checks and balances. Add to that the element of faith and you have a system very prone to abuse. Selecting people to be GBCs for life was a huge mistake in my opinion.