M_Mehdi

all praise be to God the asamaurdhva (none equal and none above) peace /images/graemlins/smile.gif ps. am i using the term 'asamaurdhva' correct?

i feel the biggest misconception is that we lil humans think/act we know everything.... even about God... the ideas and problems to getting to know God i'm pretty sure we'll find out once we all leave our physical bodies... and thus it becomes a form of conversation which rounds and rounds and goes no where ... while we are here in our bodies... because as much as one can truely and sincerly feel one way... there will always be another human who will truely and sincerly feel another... in the part of this board titled 'letters to editor' i find this: God is described as "asamaurdhva" which means "none equal and none above". isn't this enough? ... lets move on... there is nothing to see here... /images/graemlins/grin.gif this is why it is said that the biggest spiritual crime (or sin if you wish) is to utter a lie about God... however... it is useful to use our spiritual learnings... to better our human society... you know.. one way or another calm the hearts of the fanatics... which ever flag they choose to wave... but this takes the letting go of pride... culture... class... all things which seperate us... peace... /images/graemlins/smile.gif

madhav, your anger only creates a mirror image which you see yourself in others... and you also become the mirror image of those who anger you... the cycle goes on and on... it is up to you to stop it... and everyone has their time... ---madhave writes: have you ever tried to explain your above para point to a muslim? probably not. try it and share the experience here.--- /images/graemlins/smile.gif it does not matter to me which flag a person chooses to wave... if it speaks intollorance and hate... i will say my piece(peace)... madhav please read my posts and do not let anger and pride blind you... you may go through all my posts easily by clicking on my name to the left of this post... you'll find an answer to your doubts on this very site... on which i have posted... anger blinds.... subside anger and open the eyes... and the rest of your post is very words of a bigot... ________________ big·ot ( P ) Pronunciation Key (bgt) n. One who is strongly partial to one's own group, religion, race, or politics and is intolerant of those who differ. ________________ ---madhav writes: we hindus on the other hand want to keep india for the hindus and hindus' friends only.--- this dear madhav what you say seems nothing different from what i've heard white supermists use as an excuse for their brand of ignorance, hatered, pride and anger... this is all text book dear madhav... the justification is in your mind... you're going to follow it because you wish to and at these points of conversing with you i feel you truley enjoy your anger... your anger seems to give you purpose... and power... and the joy you get from it is why you do not want to give it up... but remember your anger is material... and nothing more... there is however one other source (even though it is still material) which your anger comes from... and this is lack of knowledge... you knowledge of Islam is at best... bad... dear madhav... i said this to a muslims n this very site regarding Sufis... and to you i say the same: ---posted by M_Mehdi RE: sufi [re: muslim] 11/28/03 10:13 AM ...and although one might have a certain experience with a certain sufi order or particular person(s)... one cannot judge a whole people by actions of a few... --------------- also madhav... regarding you analogy of slavery... please take time to read: Uncle Tom's Cabin by Harriet Beecher Stowe ok now... to our dear Guest in hiding... /images/graemlins/smile.gif "The asuric person feels responsible for his or her life and is constantly seeking something that will improve the quality of life" my faith, my soul, my sprituality is nothing more than personal reponsibilty... i cannot blindly follow anything nor anyone... for at the end it will be I who will stand naked before God... God whome gifted the me and all humans with the faculty of reason... and thought... it is for us to learn the truth... and it is ourself whome have to be accountable for this truth... this is karmic and quranic... anger, pride, hate have no room in a "seeking seeking something that will improve the quality of life" no war... if my neighbor is happy... my household is also happy... why? ... simple... cause when he ain't he cranks up his stereo so loud.. no one can even think... lol! /images/graemlins/wink.gif sorry a lil jest but in essence true... may peace be on us all... and God the asamaurdhva (none equal and none above) guide us all... muhammad /images/graemlins/smile.gif

----quote by madhav: rather than analysing why i addressed you as my grand father, or you addressed me as a silly boy, why not we focus on the point a post tries to make.--- nice! /images/graemlins/smile.gif ok... what do you think of the following? The origin of anger may be very complicated. still one thing remains... the cycle of anger must be stopped somewhere... these feelings will never leave on their own... they will age with you from one life to the next... anger is the worst of the inner enemies because of its unending connection to the chain of desires... whenever there is dissatisfaction there is anger... peace /images/graemlins/smile.gif

madhav, it's sure nice to see your anger subside even if it manifests in the form of sarcasm... it's a step isn't it? /images/graemlins/smile.gif however sarcasm is insincere... which makes me wonder if your whole post is sarcastic or just parts... who knows really... maybe you do... and you can share... also the place where sarcasm comes from... would you agree that sarcasm comes in the form of the ego in self protection mode...? i'm curious to know... what you think? peace /images/graemlins/smile.gif

hindus and islam /images/graemlins/smile.gif but anyway i want to discuss pride... what i've learned about Krishna Consiencness... is no different from all true paths to the One... and upon this path are many pitfals.. and a big one is Pride /images/graemlins/frown.gif pride blinds... the soul knows no such thing as pride... pride is material... a source of the mind... not the soul... pride is animal... not spiritual... pride is the cause of many wars... personal and national.. what do you think? peace /images/graemlins/smile.gif

Assalaamu alaikum, just wanted to make a quick note on Sufis... since mentioned on the last post... /images/graemlins/smile.gif Sufis are also Believers... and although one might have a certain experience with a certain sufi order or particular person(s)... one cannot judge a whole people by actions of a few... i've known many who wish to call themselves Sufi who do quote from the Quran and hadeeth... good study of Sufi: Abu Hamid al-Ghazali (450-505 AH / 1058-1111 AD) again just a note.. i don't wish to stop the flow of this thread... /images/graemlins/smile.gif peace be on you.

as long as any go on seperating believer human beings into groups of us and them we will continue to go on missing the point of the God given gift of heart... no matter what excuses one wishes to give...

i will post again a part from my previous post and if you still need clarification please let me know /images/graemlins/smile.gif <<M_Mehdi writes- dear Guest... your words are from my own heart... this is one of my strongest feelings of what is implied here... one word.. SEMANTICS ... yes! we need to go beyond words to understand.... and attain peace within and towards others... it is human traditions that break us apart at times... (when there is pride behind them that is) ... and words which some use to own God... only for one club and not the other... clubs are what we have formed... formed in the physical... hindu... muslim... christian... etc. etc. etc.. words that only seperate the ignorant... but for the person blessed by God with knowledge... words that become doorways to better understanding full color of humanity and a chance to learn from eachother... and attain peace on earth... i find these discussion to be a really good thing... the line between hindu and muslim is not that wide apart... to better understand the many many things in common with eachother is to better understand ourselves... why do we not celebrate what we have in common rather than war with our differences... we are all spritual beings... and the true fight is not amongst ourselves... peace.. muhammad>> peace be on you... muhammad ... (God willing i will check in again tomorrow) /images/graemlins/smile.gif

huh? ... i'm sorry i do not understand the meaning of your subject... /images/graemlins/smile.gif none the less.. if you intention is to say that God has created with reason... and thought... i agree... the universe as we know it and don't ... is created for a reason... btw... i hold dear the teachings of the Buddah... so again i don't understand your subject.. may peace on you... muhammad

hare Krishna <<< yasodanandana writes- the attibutes reveal the presence of a personality (only a person can be Allah,, the greatest, the highest.. not a void or a mere concept), and personality is expressed through a form, a shape, beauty, voice, mouth, gesture, body, behaviour, charme etc...>>> the word you use 'person' to me reffers to humanity. the dictionary's first definition is "A living human. " .. if so.. i'd have to disagree with you respectfully... we are created by God... we need God... God does not need us... <<< yasodanandana writes- with all these names ( vishnu, narasimha, vamana, matsya etc) i mean various manifestations of the personality of god, krishna, not that there's polytheism>>> exactly... no polytheism ... i learned this from the hindu faith the first time i visited this site... which is also the very first step to peace between muslims and hindus.. much love to you yasodanandana ... /images/graemlins/smile.gif <<< yasodanandana writes- i do not understand the "circle, square" stuff all the forms i am speaking are spiritual, not material>>> percisly... and i agree with you fully that forms as attribuits are not material.. it is the logical human mind that wants to bring shape (shape meaning physical form) to such things... peace be on you yasodanandana /images/graemlins/smile.gif <<< Guest writes - Hare Krishna, What is pain ? It is a phenomenon that arises and then sibsides. What is required to feel pain ? Consciousness or awareness that one exists. If one is sleeping or unconscous, he/she/it does not feel anything. So to feel pain one needs to be conscious.>>> there two form of pain.. one physical the other a matter of the heart... one can feel pain even in sleep... <<< Guest writes - Do plants have consciousness ? Science has no idea what consciousness is ? There does not exist any known scientific methodology or framework to study consciousness. All we know is that man and animals have consciousness because animals feel, move, fear etc. just like human beings. Not to mention plants do not even possess a BRAIN. Do for all practical purposes they do not "FEEL" at all.>>> please let me know if i understand you correctly... so if you say science has no idea what consciousness is... and there is no sceintific framework to study consciousness then why believe that plants are not consious? since science can't prove that me and you are consious... and we know that we are awake in the sense(at least ) of communications... consious of right or wrong... we can say that there does exist some form of consiousness... there have been studies however that house plant grow better if one talks with them... and even seem to respond to music... is it proven 100% i don't know... but as you say... they also cannot prove consiousness... but it doesn't make it not real... peace be on you /images/graemlins/smile.gif <<< Guest(2)writes- GOD is "pure existence" = SAT implies only HE truly exists FULLY. HIS existence does not depend on anything else.>>> i agree... it is us humans that rely on God... not the other way around... <<< Guest(2)writes- GOD is CHIT = PURE AWARENESS with no impurities.>>> again i agree with you... this is beutiful your posts... <<< Guest(2)writes- GOD is ANANDA = Pure Bliss.>>> yes God is the goal and return of us all... <<< Guest(2)writes- Rupa or Form of GOD should not be understood as limited, none the less HE has a form. why ? Since GOD is different from other entities like living beings and dead matter.>>> yes i agree with you again... so why then try and own God by putting a limited form on God...? doing so only seems to cause discrose... <<< Guest(2)writes- So let us go beyond words and try to look at what is really implied here.>>> dear Guest... your words are from my own heart... this is one of my strongest feelings of what is implied here... one word.. SEMANTICS ... yes! we need to go beyond words to understand.... and attain peace within and towards others... it is human traditions that break us apart at times... (when there is pride behind them that is) ... and words which some use to own God... only for one club and not the other... clubs are what we have formed... formed in the physical... hindu... muslim... christian... etc. etc. etc.. words that only seperate the ignorant... but for the person blessed by God with knowledge... words that become doorways to better understanding full color of humanity and a chance to learn from eachother... and attain peace on earth... <<< Guest(2)writes- Anyway, Are you vegetarian ? >>> lol! /images/graemlins/smile.gif where i live i am not allowed to eat meat for it is not killed halal... the treatment of such animals where i live is horrible and the way they are killed is misreable and torterous... much love and may peace be on you... i find these discussion to be a really good thing... the line between hindu and muslim is not that wide apart... to better understand the many many things in common with eachother is to better understand ourselves... why do we not celebrate what we have in common rather than war with our differences... we are all spritual beings... and the true fight is not amongst ourselves... peace.. muhammad /images/graemlins/smile.gif

<<< madhav writes- so please preach peace to the islamists. this is wrong place for it. jai sri krishna! -madhav>>> it is no surprise to see you write this madhav.. you have fallin perfectly into the design... again... peace is at your back... you don't even want it in front of you... give up anger and find peace... we will always be there with open arms to recieve you... may God guide you to his path and put peace into your heart... /images/graemlins/smile.gif

salaam (peace), please this thread is going off subject already... the reseaon i posted this thread is for better understanding (God willing)... ---in another thread madanvrao posted: "The only difference is that Prophet Mohammed said that God is formless, whereas we say that God has a form, otherwise on what will you meditate upon?"--- and to help better understand eachother i posted this thread... this thread was intended to better understand the form(s) of God.. in Islam there is a saying that Allah (God) has many attribuits... would one call these attribuits forms? plus... the quesion still stands... what is the form of love? (insha-Allah) i will try and be more clear... is the form of love... a circle.. or a square... what is the physical form does a thought hold? peace be on you... /images/graemlins/smile.gif

hare Krishna, what is the form of love? peace

salaam madhav, your words are the mirror image of the name of this thread... one day the realazation of your anger will come to light... peace is at your back and anger at your front... everywhere you turn you'll continue to see anger... while peace will continue to be unreachable.. because it is behind you... i say this with of love... give up anger... and you'll find peace... salaam madanvrao , there are many fanatics in many ways... and 'forms' ... one can not judge a whole people by their worst... otherwise no two humans on earth could every live in peace... the rest... is very intersting what you say... about form...and the Quran being written by the prophet Muhammad (pboh) ... (God willing) i will start a new thread to discuss form... peace be on you.. muhammad /images/graemlins/smile.gif

salaam (peace) and hare krishna... please excuse my long absense from this board... i return to see some of the same old things going on... i've read this thread (which seems to be for many lifes)and still it always comes to the same conclusions... attatchment to the material world... words... semantics... pride... and the worst of all... owner ship of the One... who owns God? then why argue over the name? which is only human in nature to name... one of the replys on this thread i read: "Allah is none other than Krishna. The real religion is not Hindu, Muslim, Christianity, etc. But the real thing is love for God " by Madan V Rao and then this was posted in response: "Have you convinced this to any muslim?" by unregistared Guest dear Guest... let me introduce myself to you then... my name is Muhammad Mehdi... and i agree with what i quoted above from the statement of Madan V Roa... as for the rest of the postings made by Madan V Roa (God willing) maybe we can open a dialouge to help understand more eachother... may peace be on you all... muhammad /images/graemlins/smile.gif

Hare Krishna, yes... to see the good in all beings... but through a more Divine understanding... a wise man once said... we must look at the world and other people lucidly.. without fooling ourselves about them... but also without letting ourselves be overly upset by what we see... since we are not held responsible for the good or bad that others may do... regarding the misfortune of others we feel compassion and sympathy... and when possible we give a helping hand... but without protesting inwardly against God... 'good seeing' also means to to see the good in things... every being is a creation of God... and there is a Divine Impression in each creature... no creature is hateful in its own right... only its bad 'actions' are abhorrent... if an accumulation of bad actions ends up by making a soul tenebrous... that can only have happened through a long and implacable process established by Divine Laws... and icorporating long chains of spiritual and material punishments... deaths and rebirths... variable predestinations and so forth... therefore to 'see the good' in such a case also meants to marvel at this masterpiece of Divine Justice... linking the actions and the very being of every person... whoever they may be... indeed all things are governed by an immutable Divine Order... Justice and Percision.... whether their actions are good or bad... we should consider our fellow beings as the relust of this Divine Order and Justice.... just as we can admire a painting that depicts both Angels and Devils... so likewise we can recognize and aknowledge all the manifestations of the Creator's perfect artistry... so when we are involved with people we should see them as they really are... without fooling ourselves about them... that is 'seeing well'... to say that all beings are good is naive point of view... the truth is that the goodness and justice one can see in each human being is a manifestation of that Divine Providence which establishes the inner relation between our behaviour and it's consequences for our soul... for example... one person may have become tenebrous as a result of a long series of bad actions... while another has been advanced as a reward for her virtues... in either case... the person concerned is a perfect work of art in whom everything has been perciesely weighed and proportioned... as a result... it does not matter for us whether particular being is good or bad.. or somewhere in between... what is essential is only that we can recognize objectivly the difference between a wolf and a lamb... then we can watch out for the wolf... but nontheless... without hating or condemning the wolf... the principal of 'good seeing' is applicable to all things.. because every being or event bears the mark of God... hence we should not regret or resent the particular society or period in which we live... one reason is that such inner complaining is a form of blashphemy against God.... a secone reason is that such resentment presupposes an exaggeratedly high opinion of ourself... of our merits and the reward they deserve.. a third reason is... that is the Divine Laws of cause and effect that make particulare human beings and societies good or bad... finally if we do look at the positive and just side of things... we can see that a decandent... corrupt society (as well as any tenebrous individual(s) ) really acts as a kind of fertilizer for our spritual field... in such a society the souls growth is actually encouraged... if we are aware of the decadence around us... then we can simply move against that current.. in order to grasp what 'good seeing' really means we have to put its laws into practice... then we will be able to appreciate the full spiritual value of this principal which carries the seeds of true and just understanding of inner peace... detachment... and genuine love for all creatures... to be grateful for all the negative in life which helps point one into the direction of the positive... God teaches us with both good and bad... sorry for such the long post... salaam (peace)... muhammad /images/graemlins/smile.gif

How do you give up hate ? practice good seeing... have anybody heard of good seeing...? peace /images/graemlins/smile.gif

a wise man once said.... in each of us there coexists two opposing forces... there is that spritual force through which the soul in the true sense of the term (the angelic soul) expresses itself... and the then there is the force of the human animal... which is an expression of the 'basharic' soul... the basharic soul itself has two components an aspect which is useful and necessary for our animal life (eating... sleeping... etc) and another side which is harmful, the domineering self.. aka... nafs... the forces of the nafs and the angelic soul are the negative and postitive poles in each of us... nothing can be achieved without this association of opposites... withouth the contact between iron and flint there would be no spark... without darkness we would not understand light... the human body without the angelic soul has only an animal existence and is of no real use...and the angelic soul cannot perfect itself without the body... each world has its own laws... in the material world the angelic soul needs a material garment that it can use as a means of communication... which will allow it to develop and advance... in essence... the body is the vehicle that carries the soul in this material world... (this school) peace...

salaam, a discussion is a exchange of knowledge... an argument an exchange of ignorance.... i've stayed out of these A vs. B arguments for they usually go no where... but as a Believer i have certain duties... this is in reply to the Guest ------------------------------ Quote by Guest: "With this line of yours (Where does Allah say these things? I didn't know Allah spoke English. )I can makeout how idiot you are." ------------------------------ Dear Guest, Surah 17:53 53. Say to My servants that they should (only) say those things that are best: for Satan doth sow dissensions among them: For Satan is to man an avowed enemy. 54. It is your Lord that knoweth you best: If He please, He granteth you mercy, or if He please, punishment: We have not sent thee to be a disposer of their affairs for them. "Even" to your enemies and the enemies of God one should speak fair... please mind you that the word "EVEN" i mean not this board or it's pattorens... but "EVEN" to illisturate that even in a worst case senerio one is commanded to say things that are best... judgement belongs only to God alone... for he knows all human kind best.... and human kinds knowledge is at best imperfect.. also remember that it is Shatune that is always trying to divide humankind... A false or unkind word may destroy all your efforts at building unity within human kind... for we are all brothers and sisters... rememberence........ we forget... for the forces of disruption are more numerous than the forces of unity... and ASH: yes /images/graemlins/smile.gif... Al Jihad Akbar! the greatest Jihad... the Jihad inside...

a wise man once said... the pure determinists claim that everything about the creatures... their movements and their moments of rest... their thoughts and their words... their behaviour and their destinies, whether for good or for evil... for their advantage or for their misfortune... depends totally on the divine Will or some blind fate... for them the individual human being has no in determining his or her destiny.... the proponents of radical free will on the other hand... make everything depend entrirely on each creature's own will and explain evberything on that light.... they say that God created human beings and then gave them reason and the power to choose freely in such a way that the divine Will no longer plays any role in their destiny.... The advocates of the middle position say that each person is repnisible for their own action to the extent that God has endowed human beings with the will to choose and the power and freedom to act... to distinguish between good and evil... in order to gain what is beneficial and avoid what is harmful... but as soon as events go beyond the realm of what is within human control... each person's destiny is in Gods hands... For example.. if someone has taken the trouble to build a very solid house that is then destroyed by an earthquake... that earthquake is then goes beyond the domain of that individuals own power... but if someone is living in a dilapidated old house and fails to do any repairs... so that the roof falls in... then that person ... 'is' responisble for the accident that happens to them.... we have limited free will... peace...

Hare Krishna, thank you all for taking the time to converse... theist /images/graemlins/smile.gif thank you for your kind words... you said: --------- Quote from theist: "My Krsna conscious practice also includes worship of Christ. " --------- what do you mean by worship? or is this part semantics... or the simple recognition of Jesus(pboh) as a master (spritual teacher)? yasoda nandana dasa, thank you, i have a better understanding of the concept not only Krishna consienceness also of what the Christians try to convery with the trinty ... the post by Raguraman is very significant to me... all the Raguraman says is about the One God... Raguraman, thank you for your kind words... may peace be on you... i see the truth in your post... if i can be of help to answer any questions you have about Islam i will be more than glad to share with you what i've learned so far in my journey /images/graemlins/smile.gif ... thank you all... and may peace be on you... you have help me understand that the devotees of Krishna consienceness are believers in one God... the same as Muslims.... Jews, Christians, and countless other sects and schools of sprituality... Hare Krishna muhammad /images/graemlins/smile.gif

i see no one wanted to continue this conversation... i hope i did not say anything to offend anyone... and if i did please let me know so i do not do it again... my questions are sincere... and please know my intent here to learn... it is what i've learned so far... that brings me to these questions... peace /images/graemlins/smile.gif

hare Krishna, thank you for the knowledge... allot of it seems to come down to semantics... part of the human condition... a code for us to figure out... at the same time... (speaking for myself) ... i find that one can end up have an attachment to words as one would to the material world... -------- i do understand the words of I_love_krishna however... that all is within the creation of God... aswell as within us... Quote by I_love_krishna: "To see Krishna in everything is not bad, it is actually an act of bliss. " i agree... this rules out duality... and starts the path into the One... ---------- Avinash , if i were to spell in the grammer of my original post... (and please know there is no disrespect at all in the following) 'there is no god but God... ' then would this statement be false in your view? instead of (what i originally posted) 'there is no God but God' again... please no disrespect to your views do i intend.. just a question of semantics that i'm wondering.... ------------------- yasoda nandana dasa, thank you for your knowledge... your answer of: Quote from yasoda nadana dasa: "yes. we believe that God is One in three aspects:" reminds me of trinity within the Christian faith... is it the same kind of view? -------------------------- and the post from Guest... thank you... this also makes sense.. that "THEY ALL answer to the One True God!" -------------- is it again semantics that create a division in unity? or is the division between all humans of faith in the One True Reality due to more than just semantics? ie. the nafs, ie. ego? peace be on you all... muhammad /images/graemlins/smile.gif

my prayers are out to all for good health... respect...