Bhakta Shakta

We all know that this world is Krishna in the disguise of maya, but what about maya in the disguise of Krishna?

We all know that this world is Krishna in the disguise of maya, but what about maya in the disguise of Krishna?

The sun is shining always. It's the person's responsiblity to put himself in the right place to get sunshine. Similarly, God and His saint's mercy is always available. It's the inquirers responsibility to put himself in the right place to get It. It's not that Krishna favors a few jiva's and just outcastes others. He wants everyone to attain him, but he can only reciprocate mutually. Radharani wants everyone to experience what she experiences, love of Krishna. Some people have figured it out, others are still transmigrating, body through body, trying to figure it out. Eventually we get to human body and we finally have a good chance to actually 'figure it out'. Vedic knowledge and intelligence won't get you far with Krishna. But when utilized properly for what they are meant to be used for, they can put us in the position to get Divine Grace. -Bhakta Shakta das

How do I differentiate a so-called mystical-experience, the voice from inside (Paraatman), or talking with God from my imagination. Especially when I lack the saucam (purity), specifically mental-purity. I am open to a transcendental-substance's existence, but I am not sure to ascertain whether it is actually the experience of a transcendental-substance or the experience of my imagination!

How do I differentiate a so-called mystical-experience, the voice from inside (Paraatman), or talking with God from my imagination. Especially when I lack the saucam (purity), specifically mental-purity. I am open to a transcendental-substance's existence, but I am not sure to ascertain whether it is actually the experience of a transcendental-substance or the experience of my imagination!

Look what i found Shvu. This validates my Theory of Authority. From The Saints of Bengal by Dr. Kapoor in Chapter entitled Sri Radharamana Carana Dasa Deva. Pyari: "But Maharaja, I would like to know one thing. If someone is so fallen and weak that he can neither practice Raganuga-Bhakti nor Vaidhi-Bhakti, is there no way by which he can attain the lotus feet of the Lord? Babaji: "Why not? Take the example of a similar situation in the mundane sphere. Suppose you are the owner of a big estate, which has to be managed well and there are a number of cases concerning the estate in the court, but you are illeterate or mentally and physically so weak that you cannot do anything, then what will you?" Pyari: "It is easy. I shall give attorneyship to a capable person, who will do everything for me." Babaji: "The same is true of the spiritual world. If you are not capable of doing anything, you should give attorneyship to someone, who is capable of doing everything for you. You should surrender yourself completely and sincerley, and depend wholly upon him. It would be his responsibility to see that you realize Krsna."

Sorry Shvu. I do not mean to imply that you are dishonest with Krishna. I found inspiration in the story, so I posted it. Rupa Goswami defines uttama-bhakti has bhakti which is unenveloped by any desire for bhukti, mukti, or jnani. It is a desire to please Krishna without the slightest hint of our own enjoyment. Anyway, back to your other postings. I'm sorry that you have lost faith or that Krishna's causeless grace has not fell on you. Dr. Kapoor in 'Experiences in Bhakti: The Science Celestial' expounds: "Grace is no doubt independent of sadhana. It is causeless as far as the efforts of the sadhaka to win the grace of God are concerned. But it s not causeless so far as love is concerned. It is the warmth of the love of the Bhakta that causes the heart of Bhagvan to melt and flow in the form of grace." ---- Shvu: "Like you have said, it has to happen by chance." I don't know of anything that i've learned about without an authority. My school books are written by authorities who have a Ph.d. on the subject. I learned to eat and defecate from my parents. Everything I know comes from some authority. Even when we look at the most successful people in the world materially or spiritually, they had an authority who taught them. Michael Jordan became a great basketball player from Dean Smith at UNC. Aristotle became a great philosopher from Plato. The Williams sisters became great tennis players from their Dad. We see that all these people approached an authority to become expert in their path. Same applies to becoming expert in Bhakti. We see that Narada Muni became expert by serving advanced sadhus. In most hagiographical literatures of GV saints, we see that they had some authority to teach them. If you are really HONESTLY wanting to experience Bhakti then you have to approach the authority who is expert on it and humbly inquire from him/her. That's the process of attaining knowledge and becoming great. Sri Ananta Das Babaji at Radha-Kund is respected by everyone as a first-class Vaisnava. Why not approach him and inquire?

"Hi Bhakta Shakta, It seems the writer of Matrix was very much inspired by Copenhagen Interpretation of Quantum Physics." I don't think so. There are so many paralells that I don't see how it can't be based off Vedanta. There are detective-agents, agents of Kali in our philsophy, who try to stop Keanu Reeves from realizing The Matrix. THe Matrix is a gigantice software program that creates and runs reality. The Matrix would be Brahman in our philosophy. There are electronic devices injected in people to keep them in illusion (Maya). At one point in the movie, Keanu has a choice between 2 pills. He can choose the red pill and happily go on living his life and never remembered a thing. Or he can chose the blue pill and take a chance to realize The Matrix (Brahman). There is no gurantee in success in the latter. So many other things, which i've forgot because i haven't seen it in a long time.

Previously posted by Shvu "So now I have to wait for that magical thing to happen, when I will suddenly get inspired or develop faith." There is a good story in Chaitanya-bhagavata Adi-khanda Chapter 16: Sri Haridasa-mahima-varnana (Description of Sri Haridasa's Glories)... One day, in the home of a prominent person, the snake-bite physician was dancing in many ways. Accompanied by a mrdanga and cymbals, and surrounded by many people singing loudly, he chanted fearsome mantras. By divine arrangement, Haridasa came there and saw, on one side, the snake-bite physician dancing. Then, called by the power of the mantra, Vasuki, the king snakes, entered that person's body and made it dance in many wonderful ways. Loudly singing in karuna-raga, the snake-bite physician dramatically danced Lord Krsna's pastimes in Kaliya Lake. Hearing of his Lord's glories, Haridasa at once fell unconscious. He did not breate at all. Then, in a moment, he regained consciousness, loudly roared, and happily danced without limit. Seeing Haridasa's ecstatic symptoms, the snake-bite physician stopped dancing. He stayed by one of the walls. Haridasa Thakura rolled about on the ground. He manifested wonderful ecstatic symptoms of weeping, trembling, and standing up of his body hair's. Hearing of His master's glories, saintly Haridasa roared in ecstasy. Surrounding Haridasa, everyone happily sang. Staing to one side, th snake-bite physician, his hand's folded, gazed at Haridasa. After some momeents, Haridasa stopped his ecstatic symptoms. Then the snake-bite physician returned and resumed his dance. Everyone there felt great transcendental bliss. Everyone happily annointed their limbs with the dust that had touched Haridasa's feet. A cunning and deceitful brahmana there thought in his heart, "Now I will dance". "this barbarian fool dances, and all these little people become devoted to him." Covering his true intent, the brahmana fell to the ground and pretended to be unconscious. When he fell down before him, the snake-bite physician, his heart full of anger, beat him violently. The snake-bite physician grabbed him by the neck and violently beat him with a stick. The man had no way to save himself. Suffering great pain from the blows of the stick, the brahmana called out "Father! Father!" and fled...Then the snake-bite physician happily reutrned to his dancing. Astonishment was born in eveyrone's heart. Folding their hands, eveyrone asked the sanke-bite physician, "lLook. Tell us: Why did you beat the brahmana? Why did you wait with foled hands while Haridasa danced? Please tell us." Appearing in the snake-bite physician's mouth, a snake who is a great devotee of Lord Visnu then described the power and glory of Haridasa. He said, "The answer to your question is a great secret. Although it should not be told, I must tell it to you. "When you saw Haridasa Thakura display the symptoms of ecstasy, you felt great devotion to him. "seeing this, the envious brahmana threw himself on the ground. He broke the happiness of my dancing. What envious person has the power to do that? Thinking himself a rival of Haridasa, he put on this false show. Therefore I punished him. "Thinking, 'Everyoen will think I am a great saint', he pretended to be in ecstasy" "This kind of cheating does not please Lord Krsna. Only a person who is honest can attain true devotion to Lord Krsna." Moral of the story: "Only a person who is honest can attain true devotion to Lord Krsna."

Hi. Thanks a lot. I've found some interesting commentaries on certain sections of the Vedanta-sutra, but I am still unable to find it. Thanks for Govinda Bhasya though. If you find Vedanta-sutra please post the address.

Previously posted by Jndas: "...One should refer to the Vedanta-sutra for Vyasa's refutation of this doctrine." Where can I get Vedanta-Sutra? I can't find it on the internet. Can you post it on your website in the Library section? And the GVV commentary Govinda-Bhashaya too while your're at it. This is a great webpage you've put up. Thanks.

Previously posted by Sushil_kanoria: "So never try to think also about dating & other things which are the first step toward degradation." There is no reason to repress the sexual-impulse. Just as there is no reason to repress the defecation-impulse, the eating-impulse, the sleeping-impulse, the defensive-impulse. Wouldn't our lives suck if you had to hold your feces in your rectum every time you had to take a *hit! The same applies to the sexual-impulse. I'm not trying to imply that we should all indulge in overt lechery, but rather that we should accept, appreciate, and love the sexual side in us and channel it in health ways. We need to understand our sociopsychological nature and act in appropriate methods. That's why Krishna set up the varnaashrama-dharma (sp?) system... If someone is hellbent on suppressing the sexual-impulse then there are yogic methods of eliminating sexual desire. But this is a Vaisnava forum not a Yogi forum. Anyway, meditation was the yuga-dharma for another age not Kali-Yuga. Chanting was established as the Yuga-dharma by Krishna, so lets follow him. Trying to control your sex-desire with your voilition will only torture you body. Why do you want to torture you body when it is a temple resided by Paraatman? Krishna bitterly scolds these people in the Gita, saying the these type of people are in tamas-guna. In conclusion, I believe, that for must of us, engaging in a monogamous sexual relationship in a marriage is beneficial to the spiritual life not detrimental. Anyway, a wise person once said 'Regulations will win you zero bhakti-points.'

Previously posted b shvu: "I have watched so many movies that I wonder how low I will be born in my next life ?" I don't know. Maybe you'll take birth as a potato! We should all strictly follow the 4-regs and surrender to His Divine Grace Srila Prabhupada who as given us eternal life after death. But if you are going to watch a movie, watch a transcendental movie, The Matrix. I've seen it once on DVD. It was incredible from a material and spiritual standpoint. They're no sex-scenes in it, luckily for pure devotee peoples like me and Rajesh Prabhuji! I am going to rent it again whenever I get the chance. It does not give credit to the Vedanta but it is so obvious it is completely based off Vedanta. Hare Krishna. Here's the parallel: "The Matrix They say that life imitates art, right? What this means, I think, is that artists are generally one step ahead of the rest of us, in figuring out what’s really going on. With that in mind, have you seen the movie, The Matrix? If you haven't, I highly recommend that you go see it. In this movie, Keanu Reeves plays a character called Neo. Neo is a 21st century computer hacker, who suspects that reality, as we know it, is nothing more than a software program. In this movie, this software program is called the Matrix. The fundamental premise here is that once you learn how this software program works, you in essence learn how to modify physical reality. A more familiar way of saying this is to say that once you learn the truth, the truth will set you free. Of course, movies, like life itself, wouldn't be complete without the bad guys. In this case, the bad guys will go to any extreme to keep the existence of this matrix a secret. They can’t let anyone discover how the matrix works, because once that happens, they loose their source of power. The movie was extremely popular, almost a cult phenomenon. It was one of those movies that people would go to see five or six times. So the question is obviously, why? A lot of the movie’s appeal was attributed to the special effects, and there is no question about it, the action scenes were great. But as I watched those action scenes, I had to wonder something. Was it just the quality of the special effects that made this movie so popular? Or was there something more going on here? Were we somehow responding on a deeper level? In other words, was there something about the effect of the special effects? Well, I think that’s the case. I think that one of the reasons the action scenes were so compelling was because they actually gave us the impression that, with the right information (i.e. with the right philosophy), we really can tap into, and modify, this matrix. We really can alter the underlying fabric of time and space. And so what we experience here, is a world where we’re no longer limited by the laws of physics. We are simply limited by our understanding of them. This movie really hit home for me, because, I have spent the past ten years of my life exploring just such a possibility. And I have come to the conclusion that it’s true. I believe there really is a software program that underlies physical reality. And it’s very similar to the Matrix. Although, I’ve given it a different name. I call it the Universal Operating System. And I also believe that there is a part of us that, when activated, can access and modify this software. In other words, we really can alter physical reality. And we can do so in ways far beyond what most of us have ever imagined, or even dreamed, is possible. And I also believe that once you understand how this software works, you’ll agree with me. You will see that it’s not only possible to alter time and space, but that it’s possible to transform our lives in such a way, so that our dreams, so that all of our dreams, really can come true. - Chris"

Previously posted by Gauracandra: "But I think you missed his point, because really you have changed the question mid-stream. You did not ask for proof that dieties exist, just what is their need in a certain philosophy. The need can only be explained within the context of that philosophy." I don't see how I missed his point, as I thought it was an excellent answer from a metaphysical viewpoint. "...You did not ask for proof that dieties exist, just what is their need in a certain philosophy." Actually I asked for their need in philosophy and religion in general and not specifically within the Vedantic tradition. Yes, I am looking for proof that dieties exist, but I didn't want to stay it directly. Anyway, I still haven't realized the need for dieties. It is by the force of karma that a living entity takes birth, and it is by karma alone that he meets his destruction. His happiness, distress, fear and sense of security all arise as the effects of karma, not from some multi-armed demigod carrying axes! Even if we postulate that there is some so-called Supreme Controller who awards all others the results of their activities, He must also depend upon a performer engaging in activity. After all, there is no question of being the bestower of fruitive results unless fruitive activites have actually been performed. Living beings in this world are forced to experience the consequences of their own particular previous work. Since some multi-headed demigod can't change the destiny of human beings, which is born of their own nature, why should I believe in demigods? Every individual is under the control of his own acquired conditioned nature from the 3 modes of material nature (sattva, rajas, tamas), and thus he must follow the nature. This entire universe is based on the acquired conditioned nature of the living entities. It's only the karma that causes the conditioned living entity to accept and then give up different high high or low material bodies.

Thanks for the replies so far Dasha, Jndas, and Viji_53. "It is just a fact of existence." It might be a fact too you but not to everyone. Not everyone accepts God's existence, nor does everyone accept some Deities existence. "Philosophically what is the need for planets?" Because I can verify its existence empirically. But I know not all questions can be answered empirically. I could ask what is the philospohical need for God in my model of the universe. And they're many needs. Creation for one. The only arguement that satisfactorily explains the existence of the universe to me is Creationism (Vedic of course). Cause-effect is reason two. If we trace back the cause-effect to the origin. There must be A Prime Mover. I could go on and on. That's why I asked what's the philosophical need for Deities. I know it's not an important question, but it's something i'm wondering about. I just don't understand how Indra is controlling millions of clouds on Earth causing rain...

"HARE KRISHNA DEAR GTAM, IT'S NICE THAT U WANT EVERY BODY TO KNOW ABOUT THOSE MOVIES BUT I WOULD LIKE U TO KNOW THAT THESE MOVIES R MADE BY THE ONES WHO R AFTER THEIR SENSE GRATIFICATION,THERE MIGHT NOT BE ANY TRUTH IN WHAT THEY SHOW B'COS THEIR ULTIMATE GOAL IS TO EARN MONEY AND THEY SHOW ONLY THOSE THINGS WHICH CAN ATTRACT PEOPLE. SO I'M SORRY TO SAY THAT ATLEAST I'M NOT GOING TO WATCH THOSE MOVIES. HARE KRISHNA, A FALLEN SOUL, RAJESH" Thanks Rajesh. If you watch too many of these movies your consciousness will be polluted and you will be forced to take birth in a lower species. The question is: Do you want to be a monkey in your next life? If you don't, then follow His Divine Grace Srila Prabhupada's example, and make sure you chant 16 rounds per day.

"In those days children at the age of 7 were sent to Gurukuls for education. That would mean that Krishna romanced with the Gopikas when he was seven years old or younger !" Krishna's pastimes are trascendental or amaterial. They are beyond time & space, and our finite conditioned minds. Krishna's pastimes make sense because they don't make sense. His lila's are an exchange of rasa between his eternal devotees. They will not make sense to people who lack faith & bhakti. It might make sense to you to rationalize his pastimes so you can accept them, but that is not the proper method of accepting knowledge in GV as far as I know. "The more heroic the God, the more the attraction. So there is nothing wrong with it. If anything, it has managed to capture the hearts of millions of people. Which is a good thing." Truth is beauty. "More than frustrating, it is amazing that people paid so much of importance to Radha, even after knowing that there is no mention of her in the Mahabharata, Vishnu Purana, Hari Vamsha and the Bhagavatam." And that is why Mahaprabhu descended. To give us Radha-Krishna seva. Many of his theosophical concepts were unknown before he descended. That does not diminish them. He descended to freely distribute the treasure house of Krsna-prema. His philosophical-synthesis of the thesis and anti-thesis resulted in knowledge never known to man before. What's wrong with that?

Thankyou for your reply Viji_53. Your answer is the purpose/utilization of deities within Hinduism. I am more concerned with deities and their relation to reality. Obviously there is order and intelligence to this universe coming from some Supreme Controller (Vishnu in Hinduism?). But I don't understand the need for demigods/deities that control certain aspects of the universe/nature. I understand that the Hindu demigods execute Vishnu's will. But I am still confused about their philosophical/logical necessity.

You don't seem to understand. The question is, 'What is the philosophical need for dieties in religion?' This is a common question handled in 'Philosophy of Religion' type of classes.

Hi. I do not accept your generalization that 'no one knows why'. Someone who has studied philosophy and theology will know the answers. There is a need for deities in philosophy, and no the ancients did not just imagine it for fun. -Bhakta Shakta Das.

Hello. Someone please reply to my questions. Don't ignore me. Thankyou. Bhakta Shakta Das.

What is the need for Deities philosophically, when Prakti (Nature) is operating on a set of predetermined scientific laws being controlled by a Supreme Controller??? I fail to understand how Indra is responsible for producing rain. Or how there is some deity for controlling my digestion...