Bart Happel

Interesting.. In another thread, I discussed a possible theoretical model of quantum reality, in which the entire universe is ‘described’ by a single oscillating point in absolute space. At any moment in time, only this point may exist. So, in the limit, everything that exists approaches zero. Kind regards, Bart

What do you mean? In particular the terms: 'Satanic manifestations' and 'nonprobable'? Kind regards, Bart

But you also said: "Who says God & soul are necessary for religion? Probably some narrow visioned people who to a religion which has God & soul as its central theme and cannot see beyond these strictures." Kind regards, Bart

Dear Kaisersose, Then why are God & soul not (necessarily) necessary for religion? Kind regards, Bart

Then what do 'Advaita' and 'Dvaita' mean? Kind regards, Bart

Maybe you should post this question to the Audarya sub-forum: 'Email Discussion Lists > Vedic Astrology' Kind regards

It's extreme monism. Kind regards, Bart

By the way, the above example (post #96) of how quantum reality may be viewed as some kind of phase-projection of an underlying chaotic oscillation, only tentatively suggests how quantum mechanics may fit into the model in principle. The projection that we perceive is, of course, a 3-dimensional projection and in order to fit in general relativity, it remains to be seen what space-time geometries of such projections will look like. An essential question here is: what exactly is time in the projection; what is a clock? Moreover, from a spiritual (qualified) monistic standpoint, our personal perception and consciousness (soul) must somehow emerge from the chaotic oscillation (God) and our physical bodies are the central part of our perceived projection of the oscillation. Perhaps we may view the most complex regions within the oscillation as souls, and it may be possible to relate our perception to certain dynamic properties of our soul. For example, such local dynamical regimes will be extremely unstable and may oscillate between different states. The frequency of this oscillation may somehow be fundamental to our perceptual phase-projection, i.e., what we perceive. E.g., we may only consciously perceive reality every now and than, in more or less regular intervals, and we may only consciously experience this as continuous perception. Interestingly, the human eye seems to be able to perceive a single photon! So, our perception may be directly linked to the quantum world and its underlying oscillation. And a fractal geometry of the chaotic attractor suggests that every soul may live within its own personal representation of the universe. Yet, all these sub-universes are connected and coordinated as a result of being a part of the whole universe (God). I’m really wrestling with these idea’s, but I think there is a chance that a solution in terms of the model exists that our mind can understand, and that can be verified in computational simulations of the model. Kind regards, Bart

Fascinating, did you notice the bird-like insect to the left of the (other) flying machine hieroglyphs? http://www.crystalinks.com/ancientaircraft.html

Dear Afun, I must admit that I simply do not understand your question. And if I did, I would probably not be qualified to answer it. I should, of course, have said this in the first place. Please accept my apologies. I'm really sorry. Kind regards, bart

Justin, maybe you can PM Trivedi 3 about your issues with Trivedi 3. Don't spoil the topic, please.

Dear Avinash, Imagine a complex (chaotic) oscillation of a point in a 3-dimensional (state) space. (The speed of the point may be almost infinite.) When we define a 2-dimensional plane through the space, the trajectory of the point may intersect the plane an infinite number of times. Since we do not know the exact properties of the oscillation, there is no telling where the trajectory of the point will intersect the plane at any time. In fact the intersections may seem to be completely random. Now suppose that the plane is our perceived world, and that it will light-up or glow for some finite time interval at the location of each successive point-intersection. We may then see regular patterns emerge in the plane. Regions where the point intersects the plane relatively frequently, will light-up more brightly than regions where the point intersects the plane less frequently. This way, our entire world may be ‘described’ by the chaotic oscillation. Although the underlying chaotic oscillation is completely deterministic, there is no way to predict where the next intersection will take place. We only know that the probability of the point intersecting some regions is higher than the probability of the point intersecting other regions. Et voila, the link with quantum probability. In the perceptual plane, something like a moving quantum particle may appear as a result of a sparse but regular pattern of successive intersections, that follow some 2-dimensional trajectory in the plane. In an experimental setup (that is also described by the oscillation), the measured state of the particle may then show up as a probability, just like the probability of individual intersections of the oscillating point. In fact, the particle may continuously and deterministically alternate between different states, until the measuring device destroys it at some particular probable state. Kind regards, Bart

Dear Justin, There isn’t really much to understand about the Mandelbrot set. It has been analyzed exhaustively, which revealed remarkable regularities and constants, and other fractal (sub)sets. However, basically it’s just an incredibly simple algorithm, generating the most amazing self-similar (fractal) patterns. I do not claim that reality (i.e., what we perceive) corresponds even remotely to the Mandelbrot set. The Mandelbrot set is just an illustration and a computational proof of how a structural part can ‘contain’ the structural whole (universe). The algorithm that underlies the Mandelbrot set is an entertaining computational ‘short-cut’ to visualize what self-similar (fractal) structures may look like. A picture of a ‘real’ chaotic attractor – that is: the fractal structure in the trajectory of a continuously (analogously) and chaotically oscillating physical mass in space – can, at best, only be approximated by digital computational simulations of the continuous real system. Good (accurate) computational simulations will be very time-consuming, even with present day super computers. I agree with you that quantum mechanics is just a materialistic, reductionistic (statistical) theory. Kind regards, Bart

Do you think māyā-śakti is good or bad, per definition?

Thnx!

Yes, and..??

Christian believe systems also speak of a unity of 3: the father, the son, and the holy ghost. The father is God, the son is men, and the holy ghost is some conscious state of men in between. Kind regards, Bart

But this corresponds very nicely to a certain type of mathematical objects called ‘fractals’. A fractal displays an infinite ‘self-similar’ structure in which representations of the overall structure (universe) can be observed at every geometrical scale within the structure. A well known example of a fractal is the so called ‘Mandelbrot set’: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mandelbrot_set, that I already mentioned in another thread, to illustrate the concept and principle of self-similar structure. Most notably: the entire, infinite structure can be generated on a computer screen by just a few lines of computer code. This represents the ‘one-ness’ of the whole structure. Actually I’m quite surprised that I’m apparently the first here to suggest such an explanation. Kind regards, Bart

The quantum state of a physical system actually evolves completely deterministically, and is exactly described by the Schrödinger equation. Ravindran already mentioned this in post #14. Probability only enters the system in the measured state, e.g., when we try to measure the state of a quantum particle (i.e., what it is). Max Born interpreted this as a ‘probability amplitude’, but Schrödinger himself opposed such a statistical or probabilistic approach. And Einstein believed that quantum mechanics is just a statistical approximation of an underlying deterministic theory. The chaotic system model of reality, proposed in this thread, indicates that such a deterministic theory may in fact exist. Kind regards, Bart

Also see: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mandelbrot_set

It's an unbelievable mess there. Don't try to understand it now..

By the way, this is a 2-dimensional example of a fractal-geometry, called 'the Mandelbrot-set':

Let me emphasize that my primary interest in this thread is to validate a formal model of reality, by evaluating the model’s compatibility with religious or spiritual knowledge and experience, and not vise versa, i.e., evaluating the validity of religious or spiritual knowledge by fitting this into the model. The model is per definition a simplification of reality, so the latter will never be fully possible. Even as a ‘unification’ of quantum mechanics and general relativity, the model can never account for all empirical data that has been collected in those fields of scientific research. The model is obviously too much of a simplification of reality to live up to such a claim. However, the model’s dynamical basic principles may indicate what’s really going on in reality and thus contribute to our understanding of physics and the direction of further scientific research. We will always need ‘working theories’ like quantum mechanics and general relativity, however, in order to predict material events in our perceived material world. Likewise, the model may contribute to a better understanding of spiritual experience and religious knowledge, by providing a formal framework, i.e., a simple and compact way to make sense of some otherwise confusing and seemingly paradoxical religious concepts. But It was never my primary intention to provide the reverse argument, that is to justify some religious concepts and discard others on the basis of the model. Well, I’m prepared to rest my speculative claim that God is ignorant. Perhaps he isn’t. If our soul is a part of God, it implies that our soul is not the whole of God. Hence, the soul’s ignorance. Thereby, all souls are part of God, so God may be ‘the sum of all souls’. If there isn’t any collective ignorance (i.e., all souls together know everything) but only the individual ignorance of single souls, then God is not ignorant. I’m only speculating again here.. Kind regards, Bart

The model is really quite simple! Perhaps you must know a little about non-linear (complex) systems theory. Anyway, when I think of a more straightforward presentation of the model, I will post it here. That’s to say, when people like you don’t understand it; many more may not understand it. If you say : “In the monistic model, only one thing exists and that is the soul.”, then I agree that my view is possibly not monistic. You suggest that monism is the idea that your soul is God and therefore there can be only one entity or being. I suggest, however, that your soul may be part of God and therefore there is only one entity (God). It’s a subtle difference. Kind regards, Bart

Simply count your out-breathings from 1 to 10, and then start counting again your out-breathings from 1 to 10, and so on. This is a very simple and effective method to ‘discipline’ the ‘rational’ part of your mind. After some practice it will focus your mind (and possibly activate your ‘spiritual attention’). Doing this for even a few minutes is quite hard at the beginning. You will lose count, and your mind will resist the discipline by distracting you from counting with all kinds of dream-like thoughts or visions, or you will simply doze away. It requires significant mental attention and effort at first. However, there is a simple ‘control’. Whenever you lost count, or if you find yourself ‘dreaming’, or counting higher numbers then 10 (e.g., 11, 12, 13, etc.), then you know something went wrong. In that case you simply restart the meditation by counting your out-breathings from 1 to 10 again. Try this meditation for about 10 to 30 minutes every day and you will (instantly) feel more focused and more alert in your life. At least, that’s what I’ve experienced. Kind regards, Bart