Bart Happel

Dear Dark Warrior, I’m really interested in your point against Advaita or Monism. Can you please give a compact presentation of the arguments in outsider’s language? Kind regards, Bart

Dear Ravindran, Thank you for the proof. It seems to fit in very nicely with the notion of hierarchical 'fractal geometry' that I discussed above, in post #68 Thanks again, Bart

I mean: Material reality (in the model) is completely deterministic. However, qualitatively different dynamical aspects (phase-projections) of material reality may be perceived (by different viewers). Kind Regards, Bart

First of all, I’m only testing (following) this chaotic model of reality. The model can also be viewed from a dualist standpoint (as I showed earlier), but a monist view neatly eliminates the problem of ‘who created God (who created the universe)’. I like that. So I try to continue on this theoretical path. And if there is no free will, then there is basically no problem for the model. So, let’s keep it simple: no free will. Your ‘pluralistic argument’ seems to indicate a problem with the existence of “millions of multiple beings”, all being similar but different from one another. Interestingly, phase-projections of a chaotic attractor typically display a ‘self-similar’ structure. This means that not only are similar (but different) spatial structures repeated many times in state-space, but similar structures are also repeated within similar structures, within similar structures, infinitely. For example, complete representations of the universe may be seen at every spatial scale in the model, as a part of complete representations of the universe at a larger scale, as part of complete representations of the universe at an even larger scale, etcetera. This is called a ‘fractal geometry’. Thereby, no representation of the universe is exactly the same as any other representation of the universe at any scale. Your argument that ‘there is nothing created in the first place’ seems to be irrelevant in the light of the above Kind regards, Bart

Indeed, in the monistic chaotic model of reality, there isn’t any free will at all. Once the initial conditions are set, the system will evolve completely deterministically. As I said earlier: “Maybe something even more subtle than chaos is needed to explain our free will”. If free will exists, however, I guess it must be part of the soul, and it must be somehow detached from material reality, while still being a part of the whole (God). We may then have the freedom to change our conscious-perception of material reality. In the chaotic model, it is even possible that by changing our conscious-perception of material reality, we will perceive a slightly different ‘dynamical regime’, in which our material actions seem to have slightly different material consequences. Underneath it all, however, there is a perfectly deterministic material reality. So, free will may be the ability to perceive reality in (qualitatively) different ways, while reality itself simply is what it is. Kind regards, Bart

Haha, say what you think is true, that will do fine, possibly..

Pardon?

Dear Justin, I started my previous post with the phrase: In the model, the entire universe – with all its intricate material structure and all its Souls – emerges from a single source of pure energy (God). So anything coming from that, must be 'one'. I don't see where the model can go wrong (as a monist view).

Dear Justin, Allow me to try and answer your question in terms of the ‘monistic chaos model of reality’ suggested earlier. In the model, the entire universe – with all its intricate material structure and all its Souls – emerges from a single source of pure energy (God). This energy source ‘fills’ absolute-space with energy and matter, according to an exquisitely complex infinite dynamical pattern. The most energy-dense regions in this pattern are what we call solid matter. Souls are probably the most complex regions. Material organisms may be created around our Souls, somehow as a side-effect of the material ‘position’ of our Souls. In terms of the model, Mukti may be the Soul living in a ‘complex dynamical regime’ that is qualitatively different from life of the same Soul in the material world, which is another ‘complex dynamical regime’. Reaching Mukti may be seen as a dynamical ‘phase-transition’ of the life of the Soul from one dynamical regime into another. Living organisms may be an intermediate dynamical regime between simple dead matter and Mukti, in which the perception of Mukti is hidden by our material sense-organs. In Mukti our Souls may develop different, more sensitive senses. God knows what we will see there. So, who is ignorant? I guess ‘we’ are. And our collective ignorance is possibly part of Gods ignorance. And our free will must somehow be Gods free will. We may be Gods agents. Kind regards, Bart

Well, I like to see this proof

I mean not You, but 'people in general'.

I can't tell you that. But isn't it true that people can be offended?

But you don't know that for sure either..

Why shouldn't there be such a thing?

Yup, somethin' like this could become WW-III. Let's hope that enough relevant people see this also..

I really think you are going too far Dark. You spoiled the topic.

But what would be the fun for Krishna, if 'we' don't really have free will?

Let's hope Tehran doesn't have 'the bomb' yet..

I don't think anything is wrong with your interpersonal skills.

Thanks!

Can you explain how this works? Kind regards, Bart

I’m thinking about implementing a computational simulation of the model, using some chaotic oscillator algorithm. It may then be possible to observe in phase-projections, something analogous to certain quantum mechanical phenomena, such as the instantaneous (non-causal) correlation between distant particles, i.e., what Einstein called ‘spooky action at a distance’ [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Action_at_a_distance_(physics)]. Even something like relativistic large scale ‘space-time curvature’ may be observed in the simulation. I’ll keep you informed, but this may take a while. Kind regards, Bart

What's your interest?

Are you afraid of Krishna or your guru?

Dear Pankaja_Dasa, Actually I think 'fear' is maya. Hence, my question: What are you afraid of? When you see your 'fear', you may be able to solve the problem yourself, confronting it. Ultimately, even fear of death is not necessary. Spirit will live forever. Kind regards, Bart