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Was Prabhupada, the Gaudiya Vaishnava, even aware of how the Vedas are classified at their highest level? How could he, when he belonged to a tradition that all but completely ignored the Vedas in favor its own proprietary concepts, while still using the label 'Vedic' as a sales pitch? To criticize Newton and Darwin for plagiarism from the Vedas shows a deep level of ignorance and a lack of responsbility in making such careless accusations. He could get away with such nonsensical accusations, as he was surrounded by bumbling idiots who had no serious knowledge themselves and believed everything he told them. The Vedas are religious texts dealing with Gods, prayers and procedures for social life and rituals in a primitive society - most of which has been obsolete for a long time. They were not dealing with science and math. They were certainly not dealing with 803.11 protocols or nano-technology as some gentleman seems to think above. They did not deal with gravitation for Newton to steal information nor with evolution for Darwin to steal. Varahamihira the celebrated astrologer from the Gupta period thanks the Greeks for giving us the knowledge of astronomy. Now our patriots will claim that the Greeks got this knowlegde from the Rig Veda and passed it back to us. How is is that the Greeks can get it, but we cannot and have to rely on a foreign source for the same info? People who talk about advanced sciences in the Vedas are those who have no idea what these texts are. When challenged, they engage in tap-dancing about lost portions, hidden meanings, etc. Be honest and admit you do not know. Or you can always prove me wrong - not by quoting Bengali Babus, but with proper evidence. Oh and just in case, for the curious, all the four samhitas and a couple of Brahmanas are translated on sacred-texts.com. The main Upanishads have been available online for a long time. In due course, the Aaranyakas will be out too. Cheers

What knowledge and wisdom may that be? Hmm....you are right. The recent blackberry patent war, microsoft patent wars, etc., have their roots in the Satapatha Brahmana and the Taittirieya Upanishad. And you know all about this. Sometime back, you made a comment on this forum that Kalki was predicted in the Gita. When asked for proof, you vanished. You have not even bothered to read a simply 700 verse poem and here you are, commented about patent material in the Vedas. Good for you! Cheers

Elsewhere on this forum, someone once posted a Prabhupada comment that according to Darwin, his grandfather was a monkey per his evolution theory. Apparently, that was funny to Prabhupada, which means he must have thought the Vedas are funny too (by the above comment). Anyway, as long as it is fun.... But I remember his staunch "Every Prabhupada statement is flawless and we will defend them till the end by adding any spin as necessary" disciples have in the past, mocked Darwin and evolution scientists, calling them fools and atheists who lacked the superior intelligence posessed by our high school dropout friends. Evidently, these gentlemen were not aware of the above Prabhupada theory or they would have been a tad more careful in their criticism. I guess it is ok to keep fooling ourselves as long we are doing it convincingly. Cheers

But Jesus was right there in person to give them the necessary knowledge! They already knew and accepted their local version of God as an old, bearded angry man who was in control. How hard would it be for them to switch to a desi version of a clean-shaven God wearing Indian style silk dhotis and earrings? It is not a question of intelligence apparently as our esteemed colleagues on this forum have argued several times. They have been severely critical of people who have tried to approach the topic of God through intelligence and logic. So no evolution of knowledge or intelligence was necessary. Even today, the majority of the world is not worshipping Krishna. But that did not stop the name from being circulated anyway. So what was the problem with releasing the name in the middle east just 2000 years ago? Are we still gonna hunt for lame excuses or can we be more honest and admit that the most likely option is Jesus never heard of Krishna? And there is absolutely no evidence to show otherwise? Ot is this approach a problem because it is rational? Cheers

Let us hope Krsna has not put you on ignore and can still read your posts. This ignore option sounds cool. Should try it sometime. Cheers

I appreciate that. I also notice you have finally given up your penchant for periodically mocking Hindus, Advaita/Mayavada and your "Vaishnava is not Hindu" and "Jesus is Vaishnava" thumping. It was so bordering paranoia that I was worried you were incapable of a cure. But praise the Lord, for our efforts did not go in vain and you have been cured. The world is a better place today by this change. Cheers

Come on dude...you are being a baby. Putting people on your ignore list just because they are right and proved you wrong? Isn't that over-reacting? But on second thought, you have been born a Shudra and cannot speak intelligently. So I really should not expect anything better than being on your ignore list. Btw, I love Vaishnavas which makes you wrong. It is this love that makes me write these posts to correct their mistakes (they make a lot of mistakes as they have been born as Shudras by their own admission and lack intelligence) and show them the way. Isn't that the humane thing to do? Admin5 is mot sleeping. He/She is watching all the posts here and knows what to do. Cheers

What about those circumstances and time? What do you think would have happened if the name was revealed back then? Cheers

Nonsense as usual...but just to ask, does this include Prabhupada and Chaitanya?

Religion is a set of beliefs and practices, often centered upon specific supernatural and moral claims about reality, the cosmos, and human nature, and often codified as prayer, ritual, and religious law. Religion also encompasses ancestral or cultural traditions, writings, history, and mythology, as well as personal faith and mystic experience. The term "religion" refers to both the personal practices related to communal faith and to group rituals and communication stemming from shared conviction. - Wikipedia <TABLE class=wikitable style="WIDTH: 90%"><TBODY><TR></TR><TR><TD rowSpan=4>Abrahamic religions 3.4 billion </TD><TD>Christianity</TD><TD>2.1 billion</TD><TD>1st c.</TD><TD><SMALL>Worldwide except Northwest Africa, the Arabian Peninsula, and parts of Central, East, and Southeast Asia.</SMALL></TD></TR><TR><TD>Islam</TD><TD>1.5 billion</TD><TD>7th c.</TD><TD><SMALL>Middle East, Northern Africa, Central Asia, South Asia, Western Africa, Indian subcontinent, Malay Archipelago with large population centers existing in Eastern Africa, Balkan Peninsula, Russia, Europe and China.</SMALL></TD></TR><TR><TD>Judaism</TD><TD>14 million</TD><TD>1300 BCE</TD><TD><SMALL>>Israel and among Jewish diaspora (live mostly in USA and Europe)</SMALL></TD></TR><TR><TD>Bahá'í Faith</TD><TD>7 million</TD><TD>19th c.</TD><TD><SMALL>Dispersed worldwide with no major population centers</SMALL></TD></TR><TR><TD rowSpan=4>Indian religions 1.4 billion </TD><TD>Hinduism</TD><TD>900 million</TD><TD><SMALL>no founder</SMALL></TD><TD><SMALL>Indian subcontinent, Fiji, Guyana and Mauritius</SMALL></TD></TR><TR><TD>Buddhism</TD><TD>376 million</TD><TD>Iron Age (1200–300 BCE)</TD><TD><SMALL>Indian subcontinent, East Asia, Indochina, regions of Russia.</SMALL></TD></TR><TR><TD>Sikhism</TD><TD>25.8 million</TD><TD>15th c.</TD><TD><SMALL>India, Pakistan, Africa, Canada, USA, United Kingdom</SMALL></TD></TR><TR><TD>Jainism</TD><TD>4.2 million</TD><TD>Iron Age (1200–300 BCE)</TD><TD><SMALL>India, and East Africa</SMALL></TD></TR><TR><TD rowSpan=7>Far Eastern religions 500 million </TD><TD>Taoism</TD><TD>unknown</TD><TD>Spring and Autumn Period (722 BC-481 BC)</TD><TD><SMALL>China and the Chinese diaspora</SMALL></TD></TR><TR><TD>Confucianism</TD><TD>unknown</TD><TD>Spring and Autumn Period (722 BC-481 BC)</TD><TD><SMALL>China, Korea, Vietnam and the Chinese and Vietnamese diasporas</SMALL></TD></TR><TR><TD>Shinto</TD><TD>4 million</TD><TD><SMALL>no founder</SMALL></TD><TD><SMALL>Japan</SMALL></TD></TR><TR><TD>Caodaism</TD><TD>1-2 million</TD><TD>1925</TD><TD><SMALL>Vietnam</SMALL></TD></TR><TR><TD>Chondogyo</TD><TD>1.13 million</TD><TD>1812</TD><TD><SMALL>Korea</SMALL></TD></TR><TR><TD>Yiguandao</TD><TD>1-2 million</TD><TD>c. 1900</TD><TD><SMALL>Taiwan</SMALL></TD></TR><TR><TD>Chinese folk religion</TD><TD>394 million</TD><TD><SMALL>no founder, a combination of Taoism, Confucianism and Buddhism</SMALL></TD><TD><SMALL>China</SMALL></TD></TR><TR><TD rowSpan=3>Ethnic/tribal 400 million </TD></TR><TR><TD>Primal indigenous</TD><TD>300 million</TD><TD><SMALL>no founder</SMALL></TD><TD><SMALL>India, Asia</SMALL></TD></TR><TR><TD>African traditional and diasporic</TD><TD>100 million</TD><TD><SMALL>no known founder</SMALL></TD><TD><SMALL>Africa, Americas</SMALL></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE> Cheers

You are responding to a 4 year old post. It is highly unlikely that the OP is around to read your response. Cheers

Your question has two parts...one is you are asking for individual beliefs and the second is you are asking about the archaeological position. To directly jump to the second part, there is not a single shred of evidence acceptable by science to support the Ramayana and the Mahabharata. So did they never happen? They may have happened, minus all the magic of talking monkeys and sarees of infinite length. Or they never happened at all. Cheers

Bet AM does not like this kind of broad thinking. Broad thinking is good only when the results align with our beliefs. In all other cases, broad thinking is bad & instead we should rely on scriptural evidence. So broad thinking as in Jesus = Vishnu is good. broad thinking as in Shiva = Vishnu is bad. (come on, where is the evidence?) Cheers

That is funny. If these people will reverse the effects of Kali yuga, then the original definition [in Puranas] of Kali-yuga as a period of gradual deterioration, lasting four hundred thousand years is wrong. If the text book definition of Kali-yuga is wrong, then the above statement which is a function of Kali-yuga becomes wrong too. Cheers

You cannot have a vision about something that you have not known before. So visions do not come from outside, they have a basis in your memory. I cannot get a vision of a 1000 year old Chinese saint just as a chinese man cannot get a vision of Shiva or Krishna. Cheers

What a naive view. If it were not for these advancements people like yourself would not have been exposed to a religious doctrine such as GV from a foreign country. Most people in India have never heard of Gaudiya Vaishnavism and in spite of its obvious lack of flavor in its own country, the only reason foreigners know about it is due to technological advancements in the past few centuries, which have made it possible for people and information to cut across geographical boundaries. You ought to be grateful to all these scientists (and electricity) for else you would never even have heard the name Krishna! This is the problem with rejecting a real world view in favor of some idyllic utopia which is only good on paper. Cheers

Perhaps the need for self-defence? It is not the case that people proficient in martial arts went around beating up other people. Cheers

Aren't we being a little dense? This is not about slaughtering animals for food. It is about *sacrificing* animals following prescribed rites. You may like it or leave it, but this was the belief and was practised for thousands of years until it ceased to be fashionable. Just in case you are thinking I endorse the practise and am sacrificing animals in my backyard, I am not. If you want to know more, read "Myth of the holy cow". Cheers

By your own logic, No. Humans are capable of advancing spiritually which animals are not. Hence, the differentiation as this is the only shortcut available to animals. Cheers

Sacrifices in Yajnas were for animals...not humans. Cheers

There is no such thing as "enlightenment in Hinduism". There are several branches in Hinduism and according to most of them, there is no such thing as enlightenment. Some branches have their version of enlightenment - all different from one another. Pick your choice. Cheers

Keep it simple. Is the answer a Yes or a No? Without answering the question directly, there is no point in these long rambling posts. Cheers

It is a naive approach to selectively pick out verses of our choice and ignore everything else. The same scripture that talked about ahimsa also elsewhere advocated animal sacrifice - for which there is ample evidence from no less a source than the Mahabharata and more recently Madhva's biography. Is it possible that the same source talks about ahimsa and also about animal sacrifice? Why not? The claim is the animal is slaughtered to not know any pain and will ascend to higher realms, something that is not available to other animals. It is considered a privilege and is beneficial to the animal. And what do you do with the meat? Waste it or eat it? Yajnavalkya, et al., made it abundantly clear that they ate and enjoyed the tender meat of these calves that ascended heaven. Look at real life; people raise pets in their homes and treat them as family members. And yet they also eat meat. By your binary logic, such a thing should not be possible, but it is for real and there exist millions of such people. In short, it is possible to reconcile ahimsa, love for animals and meat eating. They are not mutually contradictory as we see in real life. How about comparing a Swami Ramdev with a meat eating Jesus? Do the results speak for themselves here too? And how do the results speak whn we compare two vegetarian Swami's? If one is more popular than the other, does it mean he is more vegetarian than the other? Cheers

On the topic of slaughter, the vedic religion of India did sacrifice animals in yajnas as was the practice in most old world religions with the exception of jainism. And of course, the sacrificed animals were always eaten. It was only after Buddhism became popular that the practise of vegetarianism became fashionable and appears to have made its way into some Hindu sects. Live animals were replaced by flour animals for sacrifices. According to Madhva's biography [sumadhva vijaya], animal sacrifice by Brahmanas was still happening during his time - 13th century AD. Soon after he became the head of his Matha, he opposed the concept, stood firm against stiff opposition and replaced live animals with flour animals. He did not say animal sacrifice was not sanctioned in the Veda, his position was it is not required in Kali Yuga. JHa's book [Myth of the Holy Cow] also makes a strong case to show Brahmanas engaged in animal sacrifice and meat eating during the Vedic period - before the Vedic religion evolved into Hinduism. Cheers