jeffster

God IS visible, but we must first become qualified to see Him, then He will reveal Himself in due course. It sounds like you have already taken the first steps to become qualified, by reading Gita and listening to Prabhupad's instructions. Then just follow the instructions, follow the process and associate with like-minded people on the bhakti-marg, path of bhakti yoga. jeffster/AMd

But please at least save some space in your heart to love our dear Srila Prabhupad, even if you don't read his books. He sacrificed so much for us, and it hurts us to hear this. jeffster/AMd

As you like, Ian. And I hope that I have not offended you, although I am a coarse oaf with no understanding. But please be careful to stay above the mental plane of acceptance and rejection. jeffster/AMd

Ian, your point that "Everybody has different style, mood, thinking." is certainly valid. Our point is only that you are wanting to follow SNM and he is utilizing and recommending certain of Prabhupad's books and he considers them to be authentic shastra. Therefore if you accept SNM then you should also accept his recommendations for shastric resources. Regards, jeffster/AMd

I was wanting to ask the same question Haridas das asked, but I knew that I would have worded it more coarsely, and affected adversely someone's creeper. Haridas das has phrased it well. jeffster/AMd

22:45 here on the west coast of N. America. Yes, a Happy Chai to One and All !! If that's the most of our intoxication, than its likely the least of our problems! Anyway, we can always order a green tea chai, that should pass anyone's standard. One thing that we can see consistently in the obits is the involvement and attachment of the majority of these souls to family life. There's a Sanskrit term for that, mithunya something (?), doesn't it mean the shackles of sex life ? Read some obits, you'll see family life discussed prominently. jeffster/AMd

No worries, maybe it didn't go through... jeffster

Thx, Bija, nice to hear from you. I sent you a PM a while back. Did you receive ? Hari Bol, jeffster/AMd

Its 18:30 here on the west coast of N. America. 5 1/2 hours to go before the big WHOOPEE !!!! I like to stay off the roads on an evening like this to avoid the amateur drunks celebrating the passage of time, which only hastens their demise. I rode out to a coffee shop this afternoon to have a chai - yes, that is tea w/milk, or milk w/tea. I'm a bad devotee, drinking stuff like that. While I was there, I made sure to read the obituaries in the San Jose Mercury News just to keep myself a little in tune with the reality of this time-passage issue. Actually, the obits are very interesting, I always read them if I've a paper, because the paper let's the relatives submit some of the personal details of the person's life. It is amazing to see the diversity of a soul's involvement within the confines of misconception, a shadow reflection of the diversity of the blazing souls we can expect to find in the Kingdom of God. Hare Krishna. jeffster/AMd

I would have to agree that modern corporations, capitalists, are based on greed, without concern for the higher welfare of anyone. Their multinational profits are their motivation. But they are Vaishyas, how could we expect much of them ? Yes, and currently the military is mainly pawns in the hands of government leaders, who are corrupted, and often have economic links to the corporations. Their only interests are power and control. It will be interesting to see what Krishna has in store for us. Since I don't know, I will attempt to refrain from speculation. Hare Krishna. jeffster/AMd It will be interesting to see what Krishna has in store for us.

But corporate America has given the youth text-messaging and they're hooked on this type of sense grat. Everything is Krishna's energy, we just need to dove-tail it, not tear it down. Even Prabhupad played soccer as a youth, yes? I have hope for the future. We don't want to be political radicals or anarchists in the old-school sense, we want to make a positive contribution through adding Krishna consiousness and being as exemplary as possible in our own conduct, even if we're still sometimes faulty. Actions be louder than words. jeffster/AMd

Yes, government should be righteous, but I couldn't agree with you more that present so-called administrators are really plundering the people through exorbitant taxation and misusing the money for whatever purpose suits them. Then again, who put these people in office in the first place ? Its just cheaters and cheated. Some western Vaishnavas still stick to the model Prabhupad set up - book distribution - and still want to build temples in major metropolitan areas. Nothing wrong with distributing Prabhupad's books, but they had better begin to cover their bases in case of a worst-case scenario. They should begin immediately to set-up rural ashrams with an agrarian economic basis, just for survival purposes. Perhaps their gurus should man the plows for a while to set a good example. The tide of ignorance, sinfulness and hate seems to be slowly, but steadily building up. If it rises to fever-pitch, how is it relieved ? Through war. We'd like to relieve the pressure through KC, but it may be too little too late. I certainly hope nuclear war doesn't happen because so many will suffer and it will likely ruin my whole day, but it seems to be coming closer... Regards, jeffster/AMdas

If, unfortunately the bombs really drop, en masse, the next stage won't be Vedic; it will unfortunately, in many areas, degenerate to thuggery and thievery, as the remaining survivors, those who weren't directly hit in the blasts and those who somehow didn't die from radiation poisoning, begin to fight over what scraps of food remain during the nuclear winter. As I always have hope, we can only hope that humans will eventually be able to restart grain production, and that some sincere ones will see the need for spiritual life. As Prabhupad said, there will be preaching before, during and after the war. Hare Krishna. jeffster/AM das

I'm sure that the "smart bombs" are not smart enough to discriminate between atheists and spiritualists. Although we'd all like to see a Vedic society on earth, it will happen only on a small scale in localized areas, not world-wide. Ultimately, our only hope is in full surrender, purification and taking shelter completely of the Holy Names, regardless of what happens to our physical body. jeffster/AMdas

Someone once said, "Let go, and let God." I don't know who said it but it is a good one. jeffster/AMd

Theist, your post # 3, very nicely put. I know that I have unresolved resentments in my own heart, won't go to a certain temple because of certain personalities there. I just mostly stay in the gri-hut and do my own bhajan, associate a bit with you good folk here, read some books and chant some japa. Although, we ARE supposed to go to temple today a bit later, more for my wife's benefit that my own, I feel. I rarely go, so it is quite a novelty. Forgiveness means being able to cut others some slack by understanding that really, we are no better than them, and that we have all made mistakes and offenses in our relationships. Being unforgiving suggests arrogance, and arrogance is characterized by lack of introspection. If we introspect, we can see that we are an ocean of faults ourselves, so how could we not forgive others when we ourselves are so faulty ? Forgiveness is an acquired taste and takes practice. Happy Christ-mass. jeffster/AM das

Well, then, I certainly hope that I will be able to wake up sometime. I have been dreaming for a long time, a very long time... jeffster/AMdas "Row, row, row your boat, Gently down the stream, Merrily, merrily, merrily, merrily, Life is but a dream." - old folk song

Sarva gattah, theist, bija and Beggar, You are all true gentlemen. When the going gets rough, you all take the humble position. I am sorry that I tend to get heavy at times; my wife will confirm this. I tend to act and react impulsively, often without thinking first; it is a defect of character. Please accept my apologies if I have offended any of you. Bija, isn't Killarney in Ireland ? I thought you lived in Australia ? I would love to visit with you, Bija, although I tend to stay mostly here in USA. But if I am ever in your area, I would love to look you up. I hope that I can meet all of you in real life sometime, real face-to-face, not just on this forum. Be well. Hare Krishna. Yes, I am attempting to write, if Krishna so desires, to carry the torch and pass it on to a new generation of spiritual aspirants. I see it as my duty, but first I must improve and refine my understanding of Vaishnava siddhanta, by studying the books and by associating with devotees in good faith. There is something to learn from all. Pranams, jeffster/AMdas

Yes, Sarva, I followed Prabhupad, also, and I consider that I still do. But that doesn't prevent me from attempting to discern to an ever higher degree the truth that Prabhupad and other acharyas like Srila Sridhara Maharaj taught us. I didn't even suggest that Prabhupad's teachings are useless, as your post # 54 is suggesting; I suggested only that it is useless arguing about this. Reasoned faith, not blind faith. With all due respect to your good self, sir, you seem to be bordering on taking personal affront and making subtle personal attacks if your posts aren't accepted completely. I like to debate, but I like to debate unemotionally. If we let our mundane emotions come into play, it demonstrates that we have some attachment to the positions we have taken, and that we are becoming defensive. "You take the high road and I'll take the low road, and I'll meet you back in Killarney." - old Irish song. Regards, Jeffster/AM das

I said I was not going to post, but I must have what Beggar is calling "provincial sectarianism of false pride." Yes, all these logical arguments are limited because ultimately logic cannot carry the day, only our heartfelt devotion can do so. So it is ultimately useless to keep at this. But I can't restrain myself from another shot at this. As I mentioned, it is fair to say that material misconception is like a dream. As Beggar pointed out, all the predecessor acharyas and even the impersonalists use this analogy. But, as I have already pointed out, analogies only hint at truth, they are not directly the truth of the issue itself. They are meant only to be representational, not directly tangible. I fully understand this dream analogy, and it is fine as far as it goes, so you good folk don't have to keep attempting to explain it to me. My point is only that material misconception is LIKE a dream, but that is as far as the analogy can go. In actuality, material misconception is not exactly a dream, it is a temporary reality, if I may take the liberty of calling it that. It is ultimately an illusion, but as we know, illusions are taken as reality by those who are illusioned. In my post # 22, I quoted from Srila Sridhara Maharaj's Loving Search for the Lost Servant. Please re-read that section of the post. There Krishna says "You left me..." He doesn't say "I found you in the grove having a nightmare, so I woke you up." That's good enough for me. Hare Krishna. jeffster/AM das

Sorry, theist, I don't buy your argument at all. But I would preface my comments by saying that no amount of semantics can do either of us any good in understanding this. However, yeah verily, I AM in the material world, and all my material sheathes of body, senses, mind, intelligence and false ego are being powered by my soul, which resides somewhere inside of my physical body. The whole package is right here in the material world. When my soul leaves the body, I pass into another body. To say that we are also in the spiritual world at the same time is tantamount to saying that we have two existences, or even two souls. We do not. I am but one soul, therefore I cannot have two existences. If I am in one sphere, I cannot simultaneously be in another. However, at such time that I ever become fully realized and pass away from my material body in full knowledge of and love for the Personality of Godhead, I will be appear in the Godhead in my siddha-deha, just as stated in my post quoting from Srila Sridhara Maharaj's Loving Search for the Lost Servant. We are soul, therefore wherever we sojourn, whether it be within the tripod-vibhuti or ekapod-vibhuti, our soul accompanies us, or rather we accompany our soul. We may be covered over by material sheathes or we may appear in our native glory in our full siddha-deha, but in either case, we are soul, but one soul, anu-atma jiva-tattva. If you like analogies, here is one that I have thought of for years but never told anyone. In my material life, I am somewhat of a motorhead, and I like vehicles with manual transmissions, because I enjoy shifting. This is my big maya !! But anyway, for the analogy: Let's say the entire cosmos, material and spiritual, is represented by a 4 speed transmission. In the material world we use the first three gears: first gear represents tamas, the mode of ignorance; second gear represents rajas, the mode of passion; third gear represents sattva, the mode of goodness. So the best we can do within the entire material cosmos is third gear, the mode of goodness, which may gain us entry to the heavenly planets, which as we know are temporary. Unless we surrender to the Personality of Godhead, we'll be stuck in the lower gears. But if we surrender completely,and traverse the entire bhakti-marg, we shift into overdrive and drive home, back to Godhead. In the material world, we suffer the illusion of suffering or enjoyment while encased here. I said we suffer the illusion, but our suffering of it is real. The suffering drives us to want to get free from it through purification. As Bija and I mentioned earlier, this world is REAL, although temporary, and therefore our sojourn here is real, also, although temporary. Here is another analogy, and again, it is is my own, so take it for what it is worth to you: Let's say that the soul is playing with a balloon. The balloon represents material suffering and enjoyment. The soul has become attached to this balloon, and is carrying it around for countless births. The balloon has become a big burden and the soul finally realizes that he doesn't need it. At first the soul doesn't know how to get rid of the balloon. He tries gymnastics, weight loss diets, hatha yoga, then he becomes a jnani, then a yogi and finally a bhakta. Then he realizes that all he has to do is pop the balloon. He pops it !! Popping it represents getting purified, or at least beginning to renounce his material attachment, while become attached to Krishna. After popping the balloon he begins to make phenomenal spiritual advancement and finally goes back to Godhead !! Well, its just an analogy, so it isn't perfect, is it ? Don't you see that ? No analogy can perfectly represent the conception it is attempting to represent. Furthermore, I would suggest that this is all common sense, not even high siddhanta, but I notice that there is very little common sense left in the modern world. I think that you could safely that say that our internment within the confines of matter is like a dream, but again this is only an analogy and may not 100% accurately represent the entire reality of the subject. Again, our words, by their very nature, are limited. Also, talking about the eternal NOW sounds a little too new agey for my taste, sort of like something Ram Dass would say in his tome Be Here Now, and even in his more recent jibberish. I have read some of it. That man was and still is contaminated with mayavada conception. He has just an inkling of Ram bhakta in him, but he is very contaminated. I don't want to go down his path. As I said in a previous post, it doesn't matter so much where we have been as where we are headed, so I will also refrain from posting further on this subject, as I begin to find it tedious. Plus it is 00:45 here, so time to sign off. Be well. Hare Krishna. I pray that you don't take this as a personal assault; I assure you it is not. I love reading your posts. We just disagree on this issue. Regards, Jeffster/AMdas

Yes, Bija, we need considered and reasoned faith, not blind faith. Everything should be backed up by shastra and the teachings of our predecessor acharyas and finally validated through our own personal experience and the experience of others on the bhakti marg. No concoctions. If we find discrepancies, it is our duty to prompt each other until we reach the correct siddhanta. jeffster/AM das

Yes, I agree, the spiritual realm is within the heart. However, as Gaudiya Vaishnavas we must have not only religious & spiritual sentiment, but we must have a comprehensive, cohesive and complete philosophy in order to clearly delineate these feelings of the heart. Remember, Prabhupad said that religion without philosophy is sentiment and philosophy without religion is speculation. This is undoubtedly difficult, but we must attempt it in order that we don't appear as just sentimental religionists to others. One last comment - Theist, I would certainly agree that I am "transcendental to birth and death at ALL phases of your existence," but I have not yet REALIZED it, as I am only a practicising devotee, still encumbered by many misconceptions, not a fully realized maha-bhagavata. Yes, I am forgetful of Krishna. Practically speaking I cannot remember Him at all (smaranam) and I cannot even follow all the instructions that my guru maharaj gave his disciples. I am faulty and low-minded, but I want to get out of the muck, that is why I am associating here on this forum, hopefully in good faith. I hope that Ramana dasi weighs in on this thread. Regards, jeffster/AMdas

Hello Theist, Hari Bol !! The main problem with using an analogy, like where are you when dreaming at night ?, is that an analogy is only meant to point to the reality, it isn't necessarily the reality itself. But to keep this simple and answer your question, "Are you really in the material world right now?" my answer is an unequivocal YES, I am. I am but a tiny spirit soul which has somehow arrived in this plane of misconception, and I am currently suffering the pangs of samsara. I am a nitya-baddha, but I am attempting to become purified and find the self and God (Krishna) simultaneously. In other words, self-realization and God-realization go hand in hand in the Gaudiya Vaishnava tradition. Right now my siddha-deha is for the most part unknown to me, although in actuality I have a clue of its identity. Although my real identity as soul may still be somewhat hazy, nonetheless it IS my soul, right here, right now, in this material world, that is powering my physical organism, that allows me to perceive sensory input, that is behind all my mental apparatus, that grants whatever intelligence or lack thereof that I may have, and that is more subtle than ahankara, the primary misconception that the self is a lord of matter rather than a servant of Krishna. Right now I am here in the material world, I am definitely NOT in the spiritual kingdom. Bija, your posts # 24-26 make good sense, and I can generally understand and agree with them. I will certainly have to study this entire subject in more depth. One thing I would add about the dream analogy is that although the material world is dreamlike, and ultimately insubstantial, it is still real, although temporary, and our experience here is real, also. To say otherwise starts to sound insane. We simply need to transfer our allegiance from the misconceptions (self as enjoyer, doer, controller, etc) of the temporal realm to the reality of being a servant in Krishna's plane. Hare Krishna. Regards and pranams, jeffster/AMdas

Theist, Hari Bol !! If you can't find black turmeric, you may have to dye some regular turmeric with black food-grade dye. However, I do not know where to get black food-grade dye. jeffster