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premananda

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Posts posted by premananda

  2. Posted · Report reply

    Originally posted by jijaji:

    ANY dissagreement with Sarasvata line..is considered ATTACK..!

     

    In reality it's the other way around, meaning that pretty much all other Gaudiya Vaishnavas outside the missions of GM & branches have been BRANDED as sahajiya, mayavadi, whore mongers etc. by them, thus isolating themselves from the greater Gaudiya Vaishnav community in India (which is in the 100's of 1000's. Actually the Missions of Gaudiya Math & it's branches are a minority in the Chaitanya Vaishnava Religion. They would like to claim ALL as members but cannot so instead they brand them as demons, sahajiya's and mayavadi's!

    And when we speak up we are ATTACKING? Excuse me but you are demanding a double standard..!

    It's like Jehovas Witnesses claiming the rights to ALL of Christianity and demanding all other branches follow their fanatical guidelines or burn in hell.

     

    Posted Image

    jijaji

     

     

    Attack and get attacked. GM started the whole fight with other Gaudiya Vaishnavas, authentic Vaishnavas with an authentic parampara.

     

    Now the newer GM devotees get very stirred up by a few guys who happen to know the truth. This evidently feels very uncomfortable and annoying. Could it be that it is FEAR of the TRUTH? It is kinda frightening when somebody tells you what you probably know in your heart, that the Gaudiya Math is in fact not part of the Gaudiya Vaishnava lineage. It is a "protestant" movement in the Gaudiya Vaishnava "catholic" world, without an "apostolic succession". Therefore none of the initiations given in GM/ISKCON are valid. The mantras given are fruitless, without spiritual potency, due to not coming via a disciplic succession.

     

    If you think this is an attack you are gravely mistaken. You should thank me instead, for telling you the truth so you can become a Gaudiya Vaishnava first of all. The first step in this direction is to receive mantra diksha from a true Guru, who always comes in a guruparampara which is documented since the time of Sri Caitanya Deva. The Gaudiya Vaishnava Guru will inform you about the external and internal aspects of the diksa guruparampara, including his own spiritual personality. It´s not like in ISKCON, "Well, I don´t know who I am, nor do I know who my guru is. But hey, don´t worry, I am sure you will find out some day."

     

    It´s not a guessing game. When you receive diksa you also receive knowledge about the guru pranali. The names, services, etc., they have in Gaura-lila as well as in Krishna-lila. This is the true Gaudiya method.

     

    Sundarananda Vidyavinod and Ananta Vasudeva Prabhu found out these things and immediately left the whole GM institution, despite having very high positions in the movement. Worldy name and fame means nothing in comparison to the spiritual wealth.

     

    PD

     

    [This message has been edited by premananda (edited 05-15-2001).]

  3. Posted · Report reply

    Originally posted by jndas:

    Thats a funny version of the story. What really happened was Ananta Vasudeva was seeing a prostitute in Navadvipa, and fathered an ilegitimate child (while claiming to be the jagat-guru and acharya of the matha). When he was caught, he left the Gaudiya matha (taking his prostitute with him) and joined a babaji in Vrindavana (because that babaji had no problem with him staying with the prostitute). Later the prostitute found another man, and she gave poison to kill the son of Ananta Vasudeva (who was around 10 at the time). After this Ananta Vasudeva committed suicide by consuming poison. This is the great history of this man.

     

    But some babajis like to quote him as though he was a great acharya.

     

    His offense was that he usurped the position of acharya without the authority of his spiritual master, Bhaktisiddhanta. Later he committed countless offenses to pure devotees, such as Srila Sridhara Maharaja and others. The results speak for themselves.

     

     

    [This message has been edited by jndas (edited 05-14-2001).]

    You are just one of those gullible persons who believe anything you´re being told by your non-parampara GM "gurus". Have you ever considered that GM is a fountain of gossip and slander? I have associated plenty with those persons, I know what I am talking about. GM is not nice!

     

    PD

     

     

  5. Posted · Report reply

    "If someone were to tell me that Nitai was Radha and Gaura was Krishna, I would have to disagree personally; just as I would have to disagree personally if they told me I souldn't chant the Mahamantra out loud."

     

    And who is telling you that Sri Nityananda is Sri Radha? Not Sri Radharamancaran das Baba, that´s for sure! But how can you say that Sri Gaura is not Sri Krishna. What about Sri Krishna Caitanya?

     

    The verse says, "Worship Nitai and Gaur". Nothing wrong with that, right? Then it says "perform Hare Krishna, Hare Rama japa" (maha-mantra). According to the Gaudiya lineage one should first approach Sri Nityananda, then Sri Gaura. His Lila will reveal Radha-Krishna-lila. This is the meaning.

     

    "Nothing wrong with them thinking like that (free universe and all), but I, personally, would disagree with them."

     

    If you disagree with what I have explained, then what are you?

     

     

  7. Posted · Report reply

    "As so often happens, my post was misconstrued and tossed back in my face."

     

    That sounds very familiar!

     

    "Allow me to attempt clarification, though why I don't know. First, I do not aspire to be anything, in this or any world, other than Radhika's for which I am depending solely on Her grace (see previous post on another thread). Second, I meant one particular babaji appearing as the next guru/acharya in line within the parampara, also by Her grace. As for my appearing fallen, you'd have to see for yourself. The `illusion` is so close to perfect that it even fools me!"

     

    Since they claim to have a siksa-parampara independent of diksa-connection, why not put for example Sri Ananta das Babaji as the head of ISKCON? That would rule!

     

    P D

     

     

  8. Posted · Report reply

    Originally posted by amanpeter:

    Seems to me that it might be just about time for another Babaji to appear in the parampara recognized by ISKCON. Could be exactly what's needed!

    That would be cool. Although he would have to become initiated by a Babaji. But to receive babaji-vesa he would have to become properly initiated to begin with.

     

    P D

     

     

  10. Posted · Report reply

    Originally posted by Satyaraja dasa:

    >> If some people don´t like to sing the maha-mantra out loud, what is exactly the problem?

     

    The exactly problem is that he is not following Sriman Mahaprabhu's personal instructions as mentioned in Sri Caitanya-bhagavata (Madhya 23.18). He has instructed that maha-mantra should be chanted in a congregational way. Not only in japa.

     

    In the beginning of this thread you had mentioned that there was a instruction in Sri Caitanya-bhagavata stating that maha-mantra should never be chanted aloud. Sri Caitanya-bhagavata, however, says exactly the opposite.

     

    Now you have no more basis to discuss and therefore, as usual, you come with personal attacks. Please Premanandaji, grow up a little. Find some convincing thesis to support!

     

    dasa dasanudasa

    Satyaraja dasa

    According to your translations anything is possible! Posted Image

     

    What I am trying to say here is that you should show more respect for persons like Sri Radharamancharan das Babaji, even though his group differs from the majority of Gaudiyas.

     

    PD

  13. Posted · Report reply

    Originally posted by jndas:

    Diksha is the transfer of divya-jnanam from the guru to the disciple. This process of transference is done through upadesha or instruction. Thus there is no difference between siksha and diksha in the real meaning of the words. The problem is some people misidentify diksha with an external ritual and procedure - an 'intiation ceremony'.

     

    Thus they see a lack of a ceremony as indicating there was no diksha, or no transference of divya-jnanam.

     

    The actual transference of divya-jnanam has no connection with external rituals. Thus diksha occurs in a very sublte way between the guru and disciple. We can see the case of Ramanuja Acharya who received diksha without having even met his spiritual master. By the will and mercy of Yamunacharya, Ramanuja received the divya-jnanam.

     

    This is the essence of the siksha parampara, which is actually non-different from the essential diksha parampara.

     

    The parampara of external rituals may be easier to measure and quantify, but it is just the interaction of the material elements.

     

     

    [This message has been edited by jndas (edited 05-13-2001).]

    First you sounded very convincing, but then I asked myself this question:

    "How come that Sri Jiva Gosvami defines what diksa is while describing the necessity of receiving Vaishnava-mantras from a true Guru?"

     

    This basic principle, mantra-diksha, is the very basis of all siksa. Therefore one cannot say that it´s OK to only receive siksa. There is no real siksa without diksa, because diksa is the entrance to and the foundation of siksa, the teachings, divine knowledge.

     

    The examples of Sri Ramanuja and Yamunacharya are most likely not applicable in our cases. We can not dismiss the necessity of diksa by saying that those great saints did not receive it.

     

    "Thus they see a lack of a ceremony as indicating there was no diksha, or no transference of divya-jnanam."

     

    There is no real transference of divyam jnanam if the disciple has not received actual initiation, mantra diksha.

     

    Divyam jnanam in the context of the writings of Sri Jiva Gosvami is defined as follows.

     

    That divine knowledge is divided into two parts, knowledge about the Lord (which includes mantras that describe Him) and knowledge about the sadhaka´s specific relationship with the Lord.

     

    P D

     

  14. Posted · Report reply

    Originally posted by Ananga:

    The acaryas' position on diksa parampara is quite clear: That mantras must be transmitted in an unbroken succession from guru to disciple. It is obvious that some people want to cloud the issue with references to siksa, but that can only mean one thing: That they are just doing it as a dodge to avoid some fact, such as a missing documentation of their own diksa line. If siksa is indeed some higher concept than diksa parampara, then why is such an important fact never mentioned by the Rupa or Jiva or Visvanatha or Baladeva or Bhaktivinode?

    While reading the above a siddhanta came to mind. From what I understand the essence of diksa is siksa, or receiving transcendental knowledge.

     

    Diksa-parampara doesn´t mean a succession of bodies in which 'dead mantras' are received, as Sridhar Maharaj put it once. Diksa means that divine knowledge, divyam jnanam is given to the disciple by the Guru. That divine knowledge is divided into two parts, knowledge about the Lord (which includes mantras that describe Him) and knowledge about the sadhaka´s specific relationship with the Lord (siddhapranali). Diksa-parampara is the line through which this divine knowledge is passed down. Therefore it is artificial to make a separate 'Siksa-parampara'. Diksa-parampara by definition includes Siksa-parampara, but the opposite may not be true.

     

    PD

  21. Posted · Report reply

    Originally posted by Jagat:

    Good points.

     

    It is my feeling -- perhaps it is revisionist, but I would like to promote it anyway -- that the Bhagavata-parampara idea was originally intended to transcend sectarianism. But along the way, the concept was waylaid and became representative of another sectarian institution.

     

    Yours,

     

    Jagat

    I think you are right Jagat Ji. The GM devotees seem to insist that aspiring vaishnavas receive mantras from the GM gurus and not other Gaudiyas. That seems sectarian to me.

    So they have created what they accused the "caste-gosvamis" of - a diksha monopoly.

     

  24. Posted · Report reply

    Just worship Nitai Gaur and Radhe Shyam. And chant "Hare Krishna Hare Ram"

     

    Nothing wrong with that! But everybody does not like, they just wanna criticize. A Babaji saint had a dream in which Sriman Mahaprabhu said these words. So he wanted to repeat them cause he loved Mahaprabhu so much.

     

    Another saintly person, Sriman Vimala-prasad Thakur, said he got initiated in a dream, and his followers say he is bona fide. But the Babaji´s dream was false? Who can decide?

     

    PD

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