Govindaram

Alright, that answer makes sense to me. Thanks for being a gentleman. At least you are not going to eat me for breakfast. LOL

 

 

Be afraid, be very afraid, I don't want false Mayavadi/Sahajiya/Ritvik/death of Sampradaya philosophy promoted, if I sense an inch then I react, you know me kinda, I am sweet natured, but some things I can't tolerate..

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In the words of the most exalted and until recently, the seniormost Gaudiya Vaisnava on the planet, Srila Bhakti Promode Puri Goswami Maharaja, whose clear statement on the ritvik idea says it all, "It is the death of the sampradaya."

Purport

 

"Here is the remedy for eliminating all inauspicious things within the heart which are considered to be obstacles in the path of self-realization. The remedy is the association of the Bhagavatas. There are two types of Bhagavatas, namely the book Bhagavata and the devotee Bhagavata. Both the Bhagavatas are competent remedies, and both or either of them can be good enough to eliminate the obstacles. A devotee Bhagavata is as good as the book Bhagavata because the devotee Bhagavata leads his life in terms of the book Bhagavata and the book Bhagavata is full of information about the Personality of Godhead and His pure devotees, who are also Bhagavatas. Bhagavata book and person are identical."

 

 

You see giving me the above, Purport is great, I know I have read it, if you want to go down the Ritvik Trail, I can present information, if you want to argue I will also oblidge, but DO not expect me to think on your terms, the above quote I presented by Bhaktisiddhanata Sararaswai is sufficient, you must approach person bhagavata, is that not the conclution of reading the Book, sorry if I sound off.

Your servant Govind./

Read this Prabhuji, I hope you understand better than me.

It is about not being arrogant to think you can gain Krsna just by reading books, and Not approaching the Person Bhagavata:

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Eulogy of Srila Bhaktivinoda Thakura

by Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Saraswati Thakura

(The Harmonist, Dec. 1931, vol. XXIX No. 6)

It is not empiric wisdom that is the object of quest of the devotee. Those who read the scriptures for gathering empiric wisdom will be pursuing the wild goose chase... The mutual admiration society of dupes does not escape, by the mere weight of their number, the misfortunes due to the deliberate pursuit of the wrong course in accordance with the suggestions of our lower selves... Thakura Bhaktivinoda is acknowledged by all his sincere followers as possessing the powers of the pure devotee of Godhead.

His words have to be received from the lips of a pure devotee. If his words are listened from the lips of a non-devotee they will certainly deceive. If his works are studied in the light of one's own worldly experience their meaning will refuse to disclose itself to such readers. His works belong to the class of the eternal revealed literature of the world and must be approached for their right understanding through their exposition by the pure devotee. If no help from the pure devotee is sought, the works of Thakura Bhaktivinoda will be grossly misunderstood by their readers. The attentive reader of those works will find that he is always directed to throw himself upon the mercy of the pure devotee if he is not to remain unwarrantably self-satisfied by the deluding results of his wrong method of study.

The writings of Thakura Bhaktivinoda are valuable because they demolish all empiric objections against accepting the only method of approaching the Absolute in the right way. They cannot and were never intended to give access to the Absolute without help from the pure devotee of Krishna. They direct the sincere enquirer of the truth, as all the revealed scriptures do, to the pure devotee of Krishna to learn about Him by submitting to listen with an open mind to the transcendental sound appearing on his lips. Before we open any of the books penned by Thakura Bhaktivinoda, we should do well to reflect a little on the attitude which serves as the indispensable prerequisite to approach its study. It is by neglecting to remember this fundamental principle that the empiric pedants find themselves so hopelessly puzzled in their vain endeavor to reconcile the statements of the different texts of the scriptures. The same difficulty is already in process of overtaking many of the so-called followers of Thakura Bhaktivinoda and for the same reason...

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Seems to be a Theme going on in the Forum,

Any idea what is the Best Protection prayer?

sometimes Lord Krishna uses others to protect His devotees. that may include Godbrothers and disciples.

 

 

Guru need/may need protection from His own disicples in regard to his own body.

Prahladha Maharaja was not in need of help for Spiritual Protection, he was Not in any danger in that aspect, because he knew Lord Narasimhadeva would protect him.

I think his disciples did not protect him adequately. when a general is wounded in the battle, his troops must protect him from further harm... he may not be in the greatest shape right now as a guru (in terms of giving proper guidance to his disciples), but the duty of the servants of the servant of the Vaishnava is still there.

 

 

Guru takes on the duty of Diksa and therefore takes away the Karmic Reactions of his dicisples. But if the latter continue with sin, then the Guru has to suffer..

Also the Guru does not require protection from anybody, he is protected by Krsna.!

By protection, it is meant that we will come out of temporary insanity, but we still have to deal with the problem. We know the solution, but we are not inclined to take the medicine. The medicine must be taken, the sadhana bhakti process must be taken up again.

 

 

We should fool the mind, tell it--'take this medicine and at the end I shall give you sweetmeats' trick is without saying you Shall recieve something, why will it act?

Because Bhakti is without any want, how can we compare sweet to love? Sorry if I sound insane /images/graemlins/cool.gif

Mahak Dasa

'Therefore, I understand that those who have provided valuable service to his missionary work are PROTECTED'

 

 

I like this what you said, PROTECTED, makes me feel safe.

We live in a Negative world, its easy to see the faults of others, like the pastime of the devotee who would feed Vaishnava's then criticize them, that they have overeaten, why not look at the Good qualities? They far out Way any small discrepancies {if at all}, I agree that in our mind we may/may not see something else, then whoever trusted the mind?

Maybe we can learn from this apparent fall-down, it could be a pastime for us.

no, diksa was not bonafide, because the guru was non in connection with krsna, so he could not connect others

 

 

'Temp' falldown, 'Temp' means I have fallen, but will be ok again,

I don't think it means the Diksa was Not bona-fide, I have read in Harinama Cintamani that if your Guru Maharaja falls down you may accept another, it doesn't suggest anything about Diksa Not being bona-fide as far as I can see. /images/graemlins/cool.gif

Prabhupada: "One should always remember that a person who is reluctant to accept a spiritual master and be initiated is sure to be baffled in his endeavor to go back to Godhead.

 

 

This is great, I don't want to spoil the tone of this Thread, but this statement by Prabhupada says to me, that anybody who goes against the Paramapara is basically Mayavadi/Sahajiya.

If guru

- has become inimical to vaiSnavas, Sastra, bhakti

- has become engrossed in sense enjoyment

- is lacking discrimination on what is duty and not

- is foolish

- is not following Suddha (pure) bhakti

should be given up.

One should take dikSa again from vaiSnava sad guru.

 

 

Prabhuji there are many disciple who have Guru who have fallen temp, so does this mean the Diksa was Not bona-fide, I don't think it's so simple. What do you say?

He will take you there.

Don't do it.

Its just a big 'Maya' hassle at the end of the day, you'll probably spend your entire life trying to deal with it.

Thats MY opinion, sure others feel diff.

'By Your Example They can be changed'

/images/graemlins/grin.gif1 min.

By --endeavouring with six positive principles of devotional service, enthusiasm, patience, confidence, regulative principle {sravanam/kirtanam/Vishnu smaranam/pada sevanam}, associating with devotees, follows example of previous archaryas.

You're --meaning you, by mercy you can go far.

Example --being the best devotee you can be, being truthful, and endeavouring to establish sankirtana movement.

They --all fallen-souls can benefit by Kirtan, Including me/you, animals. This is the Religion for this Age.

Can --By and Only be Mercy of Guru and Gauranaga can change, will change by your part in the puzzle, fit all the pieces together, and preach this mission!

Be --cent percent CONFIDENCE in Gaura-hari, Guru, Vaishnava's, you can make a dog chant!

Changed --this is up to you.

We should all stick together, simple arguments happen, but we should always maintain polite etiquette, thats Vaishnava Standard, I wonder what the No.1 Rule of it is?

If you are having any 'problems' with Bhakti-yoga please say, its not good to hold back, I hope you have somebody to TALK to, thats what association is about, encouraging one another. I pray that you get 'going' again, somebody once said to me, Prabhuji at least chant 1 round a day, I was think huh 1 round? I want to do 16 rounds! I am an arrogant fool, start again, thats the only adive I can give.

I felt inspired by the Purport by Srila Prabhupada, and included the famous verse also, goes hand-in-hand I feel, Bhagavatam is indeed the cream of all the Vedas.

Bg.18.66: Abandon all varieties of religion and just surrender unto Me. I shall deliver you from all sinful reactions. Do not fear.

SB.1.5.17

PURPORT

As far as the duties of mankind are concerned, there are innumerable duties. Every man is duty-bound not only to his parents, family members, society, country, humanity, other living beings, the demigods, etc., but also to the great philosophers, poets, scientists, etc. It is enjoined in the scriptures that one can relinquish all such duties and surrender unto the service of the Lord. So if one does so and becomes successful in the discharge of his devotional service unto the Lord, it is well and good. But it so happens sometimes that one surrenders himself unto the service of the Lord by some temporary sentiment, and in the long run, due to so many other reasons, he falls down from the path of service by undesirable association. There are so many instances of this in the histories. Bharata Maharaja was obliged to take his birth as a stag due to his intimate attachment to a stag. He thought of this stag when he died. As such, in the next birth he became a stag, although he did not forget the incident of his previous birth. Similarly, Citraketu also fell down due to his offenses at the feet of Siva. But in spite of all this, the stress is given here to surrendering unto the lotus feet of the Lord, even if there is a chance of falling down, because even though one falls down from the prescribed duties of devotional service, he will never forget the lotus feet of the Lord. Once engaged in the devotional service of the Lord, one will continue the service in all circumstances. In the Bhagavad-gita it is said that even a small quantity of devotional service can save one from the most dangerous position. There are many instances of such examples in history. Ajamila is one of them. Ajamila in his early life was a devotee, but in his youth he fell down. Still he was saved by the Lord at the end.

You are friendly person, if you may have offended somebody I hope they can forgive you, or you can ask Lord Nityananda to forgive you/help you, don't take our word for it, start praying. Sometimes we offend devotees even without knowing it, so its great to be alert, experience is a great thing, we learn from our mistakes, but prevention is also better than cure. Good luck.

Some more I thought of:

You might be a desi if, if you have a novelty doorbell.

#If you have net curtains, then change them for blinds, and switch back again..

#If you stop at service station just to goto the toilet, but end up buying breakfeast shoppin for the whole week.

#If you goto weddings just to complain about the food later on {thats one for my Mum}

This sort of stuff happens all the time.

I heard the first one, very interesting, its good to know that Hare Krsna devotee know about all aspects of the world.....JUST to spread the message of Sankirtana.

Its easy trying to go into 'psycho mode'.

Good line for next Psycho movie yah think?

Thankyou for these pastimes, very wonderful.

I could never be a preacher, I don't know squat.

Most ppls know almost everything, I can't remember good, I feel kinda unhappy now, how come certain ppls have good memory and most don't?

Somebody said 'preach to yourself'.

wise words.