Guest guest Report post Posted October 11, 2003 This is a true story. It happened in the early nineties. My guru initiated me in October 1991. During one of the retreats on which he took us he gave us a pretty strict regimen to follow. Up at 6:00 for an hour and a half of meditation. Followed by breakfast, a small break and then he would give us a discourse. The discourse was different. He tuned to some higher form of himself or maybe it was Guru Tatva, I really don't know, but he would close his eyes and speak from his solar plexus. One morning he scolded us for being tired, he told us Americans sleep too much. He said, "I am your Guru you should respect and listen to me, I really do know what's best for you." Not fifteen minutes later, after the discourse, in a very casual question and answer period where his eyes were opened and he was smiling and laughing, someone asked him about Guru and he said, "I am not your Guru, your Guru is in here." And he pointed to the person's chest. This example had me perplexed for the longest time. My engineering scientific mind was really quite disturbed at his apparent change of opinion. I think this is a perfect example of the duality of consciousness here on the earth plane. When he was giving the dissertation he was speaking from Guru's perspective, but later he spoke as himself, as his ego. We all have that duality within us, it is the ending of that duality that is the spiritual seeker's ultimate goal. Or at least this spiritual seekers ultimate goal. I want to walk around with god looking through my eyes and god hearing with my ears. I think Kelly was saying that one does not need a guru because one is guru. One's true self, or higher self or oversoul or ParamAtman or what ever you want to call it is guru. Even if we have not been initiated by a guru of the flesh we can just as easily be initiated by a guru within our heart, or even by our very own soul. Paramahansa Yogananda once said that when the student is ready, the master will appear. I don't think he was the first to say it though, he was just the first I heard say it. If you are ready to receive the light of god, then the master will appear to you. If there are no physical masters around, then she will come in your sleep or in your day dreams or in a corner of your vision, or as a little voice in your head or heart. I think our goal is to prepare a place for God(des) in our heart. If we make it fancy and full of love for her, then how can she not come? There have been some reactions in this thread lately. Everyone needs to check themselves and ask, "have I reacted to something someone has said?" And let the question bounce around in your head and heart for a while before you react and say, "No." If the answer is "Yes," then you need to accept it and ask yourself, "Why did I react? What was so upsetting to me?" The answer to that question may not come easily and it may not feel good when it does at first, but it will be quite liberating. Of that you can be sure. When present, drama indicates unhealed trauma. So look around you and spot the drama. Where is it originating from? And are you playing into it? Are you making yourself part of the drama? Are you making the drama in the first place? If so, why? Drama is a very interesting subject. Humans make it all the time and the answers to its causes are so fascinating. Why do you make drama? Anyone know? I know some of the reasons I make it. I'll hold back for now though. I'd like you all to think about it for a while, do some soul searching. *hugs* Brian --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.524 / Virus Database: 321 - Release 10/6/2003 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted October 11, 2003 Brian, Excellent story & ideas! Astraea , Brian McKee <brian@s...> wrote: > This is a true story. It happened in the early nineties. > > My guru initiated me in October 1991. > > During one of the retreats on which he took us he gave us a pretty strict > regimen to follow. Up at 6:00 for an hour and a half of meditation. > Followed by breakfast, a small break and then he would give us a discourse. > > The discourse was different. He tuned to some higher form of himself or > maybe it was Guru Tatva, I really don't know, but he would close his eyes > and speak from his solar plexus. > > One morning he scolded us for being tired, he told us Americans sleep too > much. He said, "I am your Guru you should respect and listen to me, I > really do know what's best for you." > > Not fifteen minutes later, after the discourse, in a very casual question > and answer period where his eyes were opened and he was smiling and > laughing, someone asked him about Guru and he said, "I am not your Guru, > your Guru is in here." And he pointed to the person's chest. > > This example had me perplexed for the longest time. My engineering > scientific mind was really quite disturbed at his apparent change of opinion. > > I think this is a perfect example of the duality of consciousness here on > the earth plane. > > When he was giving the dissertation he was speaking from Guru's > perspective, but later he spoke as himself, as his ego. We all have that > duality within us, it is the ending of that duality that is the spiritual > seeker's ultimate goal. Or at least this spiritual seekers ultimate goal. > > I want to walk around with god looking through my eyes and god hearing with > my ears. > > I think Kelly was saying that one does not need a guru because one is guru. > One's true self, or higher self or oversoul or ParamAtman or what ever you > want to call it is guru. Even if we have not been initiated by a guru of > the flesh we can just as easily be initiated by a guru within our heart, or > even by our very own soul. > > Paramahansa Yogananda once said that when the student is ready, the master > will appear. I don't think he was the first to say it though, he was just > the first I heard say it. > > If you are ready to receive the light of god, then the master will appear > to you. If there are no physical masters around, then she will come in your > sleep or in your day dreams or in a corner of your vision, or as a little > voice in your head or heart. > > I think our goal is to prepare a place for God(des) in our heart. If we > make it fancy and full of love for her, then how can she not come? > > There have been some reactions in this thread lately. Everyone needs to > check themselves and ask, "have I reacted to something someone has said?" > > And let the question bounce around in your head and heart for a while > before you react and say, "No." > > If the answer is "Yes," then you need to accept it and ask yourself, "Why > did I react? What was so upsetting to me?" > > The answer to that question may not come easily and it may not feel good > when it does at first, but it will be quite liberating. Of that you can be > sure. > > When present, drama indicates unhealed trauma. > > So look around you and spot the drama. Where is it originating from? And > are you playing into it? Are you making yourself part of the drama? Are you > making the drama in the first place? > > If so, why? > > Drama is a very interesting subject. Humans make it all the time and the > answers to its causes are so fascinating. Why do you make drama? Anyone know? > > I know some of the reasons I make it. I'll hold back for now though. I'd > like you all to think about it for a while, do some soul searching. > > *hugs* > > Brian > > > --- > Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). > Version: 6.0.524 / Virus Database: 321 - Release 10/6/2003 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted October 12, 2003 ChrisBrian McKee <brian (AT) soulspark (DOT) org> wrote: This is a true story. It happened in the early nineties.My guru initiated me in October 1991.During one of the retreats on which he took us he gave us a pretty strict regimen to follow. Up at 6:00 for an hour and a half of meditation. Followed by breakfast, a small break and then he would give us a discourse.The discourse was different. He tuned to some higher form of himself or maybe it was Guru Tatva, I really don't know, but he would close his eyes and speak from his solar plexus.One morning he scolded us for being tired, he told us Americans sleep too much. He said, "I am your Guru you should respect and listen to me, I really do know what's best for you."Not fifteen minutes later, after the discourse, in a very casual question and answer period where his eyes were opened and he was smiling and laughing, someone asked him about Guru and he said, "I am not your Guru, your Guru is in here." And he pointed to the person's chest.This example had me perplexed for the longest time. My engineering scientific mind was really quite disturbed at his apparent change of opinion.I think this is a perfect example of the duality of consciousness here on the earth plane.When he was giving the dissertation he was speaking from Guru's perspective, but later he spoke as himself, as his ego. We all have that duality within us, it is the ending of that duality that is the spiritual seeker's ultimate goal. Or at least this spiritual seekers ultimate goal.I want to walk around with god looking through my eyes and god hearing with my ears.I think Kelly was saying that one does not need a guru because one is guru. One's true self, or higher self or oversoul or ParamAtman or what ever you want to call it is guru. Even if we have not been initiated by a guru of the flesh we can just as easily be initiated by a guru within our heart, or even by our very own soul.Paramahansa Yogananda once said that when the student is ready, the master will appear. I don't think he was the first to say it though, he was just the first I heard say it.If you are ready to receive the light of god, then the master will appear to you. If there are no physical masters around, then she will come in your sleep or in your day dreams or in a corner of your vision, or as a little voice in your head or heart.I think our goal is to prepare a place for God(des) in our heart. If we make it fancy and full of love for her, then how can she not come?There have been some reactions in this thread lately. Everyone needs to check themselves and ask, "have I reacted to something someone has said?"And let the question bounce around in your head and heart for a while before you react and say, "No."If the answer is "Yes," then you need to accept it and ask yourself, "Why did I react? What was so upsetting to me?"The answer to that question may not come easily and it may not feel good when it does at first, but it will be quite liberating. Of that you can be sure.When present, drama indicates unhealed trauma.So look around you and spot the drama. Where is it originating from? And are you playing into it? Are you making yourself part of the drama? Are you making the drama in the first place?If so, why?Drama is a very interesting subject. Humans make it all the time and the answers to its causes are so fascinating. Why do you make drama? Anyone know?I know some of the reasons I make it. I'll hold back for now though. I'd like you all to think about it for a while, do some soul searching.*hugs*BrianTo from this group, send an email to:Your use of is subject to the ---Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).Version: 6.0.524 / Virus Database: 321 - Release 10/6/2003 The New with improved product search Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted October 13, 2003 It's interesting to me you should go from inner guru to drama. I believe that when we are truly surrendered to inner guru, to that "still small voice" of God, when She is directing all (or rather, we are completely surrendered to that knowledge that She is directing all), we then know who we truly are. And when we know who we truly are, we stand firmly upon that truth. In standing firmly upon that truth, we can then witness Her Dance, that is, the drama, without reaction (or with reaction of choice). The drama is a constant, there will always be the drama; this is the essence of Nature--dance She will, because dance She must--or, change She will, because change She must. That is who She is--that is Prakriti. In our place of witness--of perfect surrender and equanimity--we can finally learn to witness Her, rather than be pulled into that drama unknowingly, thereby creating more prarabdha karma. We can be in this place of witness because we are completely surrendered to guru--to that divine voice, shall we say, in which we have perfect trust. In any other place we are, we become the drama---we identify with it, we ignore the inner knowing and guidance--pure intuitive perception--which is our own Divine Self. Life dances us! rather than us dancing with life in joyful surrender and abandon. Our beautiful Chandi Pathah shows us how easily we become the drama in the very first chapter where both the king and the businessman have forgotten (or not yet rediscovered) their true selves, and are caught in this drama by their very nature (all of our "natures" when we haven't come to know our Divine Nature). When they come to know their Divine Nature, the drama of the Divine Mother is just witnessed by them--and they can reclaim their kingdom, or remain in full union with Her. , Brian McKee <brian@s...> wrote: > This is a true story. It happened in the early nineties. > > My guru initiated me in October 1991. > > During one of the retreats on which he took us he gave us a pretty strict > regimen to follow. Up at 6:00 for an hour and a half of meditation. > Followed by breakfast, a small break and then he would give us a discourse. > > The discourse was different. He tuned to some higher form of himself or > maybe it was Guru Tatva, I really don't know, but he would close his eyes > and speak from his solar plexus. > > One morning he scolded us for being tired, he told us Americans sleep too > much. He said, "I am your Guru you should respect and listen to me, I > really do know what's best for you." > > Not fifteen minutes later, after the discourse, in a very casual question > and answer period where his eyes were opened and he was smiling and > laughing, someone asked him about Guru and he said, "I am not your Guru, > your Guru is in here." And he pointed to the person's chest. > > This example had me perplexed for the longest time. My engineering > scientific mind was really quite disturbed at his apparent change of opinion. > > I think this is a perfect example of the duality of consciousness here on > the earth plane. > > When he was giving the dissertation he was speaking from Guru's > perspective, but later he spoke as himself, as his ego. We all have that > duality within us, it is the ending of that duality that is the spiritual > seeker's ultimate goal. Or at least this spiritual seekers ultimate goal. > > I want to walk around with god looking through my eyes and god hearing with > my ears. > > I think Kelly was saying that one does not need a guru because one is guru. > One's true self, or higher self or oversoul or ParamAtman or what ever you > want to call it is guru. Even if we have not been initiated by a guru of > the flesh we can just as easily be initiated by a guru within our heart, or > even by our very own soul. > > Paramahansa Yogananda once said that when the student is ready, the master > will appear. I don't think he was the first to say it though, he was just > the first I heard say it. > > If you are ready to receive the light of god, then the master will appear > to you. If there are no physical masters around, then she will come in your > sleep or in your day dreams or in a corner of your vision, or as a little > voice in your head or heart. > > I think our goal is to prepare a place for God(des) in our heart. If we > make it fancy and full of love for her, then how can she not come? > > There have been some reactions in this thread lately. Everyone needs to > check themselves and ask, "have I reacted to something someone has said?" > > And let the question bounce around in your head and heart for a while > before you react and say, "No." > > If the answer is "Yes," then you need to accept it and ask yourself, "Why > did I react? What was so upsetting to me?" > > The answer to that question may not come easily and it may not feel good > when it does at first, but it will be quite liberating. Of that you can be > sure. > > When present, drama indicates unhealed trauma. > > So look around you and spot the drama. Where is it originating from? And > are you playing into it? Are you making yourself part of the drama? Are you > making the drama in the first place? > > If so, why? > > Drama is a very interesting subject. Humans make it all the time and the > answers to its causes are so fascinating. Why do you make drama? Anyone know? > > I know some of the reasons I make it. I'll hold back for now though. I'd > like you all to think about it for a while, do some soul searching. > > *hugs* > > Brian > > > --- > Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). > Version: 6.0.524 / Virus Database: 321 - Release 10/6/2003 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted October 13, 2003 Nitya Ma, I had to read your post a couple of times before I understood that you're referring to the Guru in Brian's story: that this Guru could go from speaking from his Inner Guru to speaking from his egoic state. But not all Gurus are rooted in a waking samadhi ALL the time. I think there are different levels of Gurus. Not all Gurus are equal. Not all are jivanmukti. Am I misunderstanding something here? I thought only the highest form of Guru, a Satguru, is rooted in Turiya at all times. Astraea , "nitya_ma" <nitya_ma> wrote: > It's interesting to me you should go from inner guru to drama. > I believe that when we are truly surrendered to inner guru, to that "still small > voice" of God, when She is directing all (or rather, we are completely > surrendered to that knowledge that She is directing all), we then know who > we truly are. And when we know who we truly are, we stand firmly upon that > truth. In standing firmly upon that truth, we can then witness Her Dance, that > is, the drama, without reaction (or with reaction of choice). > The drama is a constant, there will always be the drama; this is the essence of > Nature--dance She will, because dance She must--or, change She will, > because change She must. That is who She is--that is Prakriti. > In our place of witness--of perfect surrender and equanimity-- we can finally > learn to witness Her, rather than be pulled into that drama unknowingly, > thereby creating more prarabdha karma. We can be in this place of witness > because we are completely surrendered to guru--to that divine voice, shall we > say, in which we have perfect trust. > In any other place we are, we become the drama---we identify with it, we > ignore the inner knowing and guidance--pure intuitive perception-- which is > our own Divine Self. Life dances us! rather than us dancing with life in joyful > surrender and abandon. > Our beautiful Chandi Pathah shows us how easily we become the drama > in the very first chapter where both the king and the businessman have > forgotten (or not yet rediscovered) their true selves, and are caught in this > drama by their very nature (all of our "natures" when we haven't come to know > our Divine Nature). When they come to know their Divine Nature, the drama > of the Divine Mother is just witnessed by them--and they can reclaim their > kingdom, or remain in full union with Her. > > > > > , Brian McKee <brian@s...> wrote: > > This is a true story. It happened in the early nineties. > > > > My guru initiated me in October 1991. > > > > During one of the retreats on which he took us he gave us a pretty strict > > regimen to follow. Up at 6:00 for an hour and a half of meditation. > > Followed by breakfast, a small break and then he would give us a > discourse. > > > > The discourse was different. He tuned to some higher form of himself or > > maybe it was Guru Tatva, I really don't know, but he would close his eyes > > and speak from his solar plexus. > > > > One morning he scolded us for being tired, he told us Americans sleep too > > much. He said, "I am your Guru you should respect and listen to me, I > > really do know what's best for you." > > > > Not fifteen minutes later, after the discourse, in a very casual question > > and answer period where his eyes were opened and he was smiling and > > laughing, someone asked him about Guru and he said, "I am not your Guru, > > your Guru is in here." And he pointed to the person's chest. > > > > This example had me perplexed for the longest time. My engineering > > scientific mind was really quite disturbed at his apparent change of opinion. > > > > I think this is a perfect example of the duality of consciousness here on > > the earth plane. > > > > When he was giving the dissertation he was speaking from Guru's > > perspective, but later he spoke as himself, as his ego. We all have that > > duality within us, it is the ending of that duality that is the spiritual > > seeker's ultimate goal. Or at least this spiritual seekers ultimate goal. > > > > I want to walk around with god looking through my eyes and god hearing > with > > my ears. > > > > I think Kelly was saying that one does not need a guru because one is guru. > > One's true self, or higher self or oversoul or ParamAtman or what ever you > > want to call it is guru. Even if we have not been initiated by a guru of > > the flesh we can just as easily be initiated by a guru within our heart, or > > even by our very own soul. > > > > Paramahansa Yogananda once said that when the student is ready, the > master > > will appear. I don't think he was the first to say it though, he was just > > the first I heard say it. > > > > If you are ready to receive the light of god, then the master will appear > > to you. If there are no physical masters around, then she will come in your > > sleep or in your day dreams or in a corner of your vision, or as a little > > voice in your head or heart. > > > > I think our goal is to prepare a place for God(des) in our heart. If we > > make it fancy and full of love for her, then how can she not come? > > > > There have been some reactions in this thread lately. Everyone needs to > > check themselves and ask, "have I reacted to something someone has > said?" > > > > And let the question bounce around in your head and heart for a while > > before you react and say, "No." > > > > If the answer is "Yes," then you need to accept it and ask yourself, "Why > > did I react? What was so upsetting to me?" > > > > The answer to that question may not come easily and it may not feel good > > when it does at first, but it will be quite liberating. Of that you can be > > sure. > > > > When present, drama indicates unhealed trauma. > > > > So look around you and spot the drama. Where is it originating from? And > > are you playing into it? Are you making yourself part of the drama? Are you > > making the drama in the first place? > > > > If so, why? > > > > Drama is a very interesting subject. Humans make it all the time and the > > answers to its causes are so fascinating. Why do you make drama? Anyone > know? > > > > I know some of the reasons I make it. I'll hold back for now though. I'd > > like you all to think about it for a while, do some soul searching. > > > > *hugs* > > > > Brian > > > > > > --- > > Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. > > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). > > Version: 6.0.524 / Virus Database: 321 - Release 10/6/2003 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted October 13, 2003 plexus.> > One morning he scolded us for being tired, he told us Americans sleep too > much. He said, "I am your Guru you should respect and listen to me, I > really do know what's best for you."> > Not fifteen minutes later, after the discourse, in a very casual question > and answer period where his eyes were opened and he was smiling and > laughing, someone asked him about Guru and he said, "I am not your Guru, > your Guru is in here." And he pointed to the person's chest.> > This example had me perplexed for the longest time. My engineering > scientific mind was really quite disturbed at his apparent change of opinion.> > I think this is a perfect example of the duality of consciousness here on > the earth plane.> > When he was giving the dissertation he was speaking from Guru's > perspective, but later he spoke as himself, as his ego. We all have that > duality within us, it is the ending of that duality that is the spiritual > seeker's ultimate goal. Or at least this spiritual seekers ultimate goal.> > I want to walk around with god looking through my eyes and god hearing with > my ears.> > I think Kelly was saying that one does not need a guru because one is guru. > One's true self, or higher self or oversoul or ParamAtman or what ever you > want to call it is guru. Even if we have not been initiated by a guru of > the flesh we can just as easily be initiated by a guru within our heart, or > even by our very own soul.> > Paramahansa Yogananda once said that when the student is ready, the master > will appear. I don't think he was the first to say it though, he was just > the first I heard say it.> > If you are ready to receive the light of god, then the master will appear > to you. If there are no physical masters around, then she will come in your > sleep or in your day dreams or in a corner of your vision, or as a little > voice in your head or heart.> > I think our goal is to prepare a place for God(des) in our heart. If we > make it fancy and full of love for her, then how can she not come?> > There have been some reactions in this thread lately. Everyone needs to > check themselves and ask, "have I reacted to something someone has said?"> > And let the question bounce around in your head and heart for a while > before you react and say, "No."> > If the answer is "Yes," then you need to accept it and ask yourself, "Why > did I react? What was so upsetting to me?"> > The answer to that question may not come easily and it may not feel good > when it does at first, but it will be quite liberating. Of that you can be > sure.> > When present, drama indicates unhealed trauma.> > So look around you and spot the drama. Where is it originating from? And > are you playing into it? Are you making yourself part of the drama? Are you > making the drama in the first place?> > If so, why?> > Drama is a very interesting subject. Humans make it all the time and the > answers to its causes are so fascinating. Why do you make drama? Anyone know?> > I know some of the reasons I make it. I'll hold back for now though. I'd > like you all to think about it for a while, do some soul searching.> > *hugs*> > Brian> > > ---> Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.> Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).> Version: 6.0.524 / Virus Database: 321 - Release Date: 10/6/2003------------------------ Sponsor ---------------------~-->Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for your HP, Epson, Canon or LexmarkPrinter at MyInks.com. Free s/h on o rders $50 or more to the US & Canada.http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511http://us.click./mOAaAA/3exGAA/qnsNAA/XUWolB/TM---~->To from this group, send an email to:Your use of is subject to No banners. No pop-ups. No kidding.Introducing My Way - http://www.myway.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted October 14, 2003 Astraea, I wasn't actually referring to the Guru in Brian's story. I was referring to inner guru (he said, " one's true self or paramatman, etc..."). That is what we ultimately surrender to--that Divine Voice, Divine Mother Herself, our own Divine Soul. Satguru comes from there (the Guru in Brian's story pointed to his chest), from that place of Truth, of Knowing: Satchitananda. So many ways to refer to that Truth. But it has nothing to do with ego. It is however, our divine drama. Then, I was alluding to two choices in the end of my post: In the Chandi, the two main characters listening to the teachings of the rishi are the King (Good Thoughts) and the businessman (samadhi). After their awakening (many episodes later ) and many years (three) of continual tapasya, they each ask for a boon from Divine Mother. Good Thoughts, the king, asks for his kingdom back; of course this time as he rules his kingdom (his "self") he is coming from an enlightened, dharmic place, and lives completely in Good Thoughts. Previously,he had lost his "kingdom" trying to manage all without surrender to Divinity, to the Divine Mother herself, and found it impossible without the invasion of negativity and destructive forces. Samadhi, the businessman, by that time indifferent to objects in the world, asks for knowledge which "removes the attachment to egotism and possession", and She gives him the "highest wisdom by which" he attains liberation,or samadhi--union with the Divine. These are two different choices in surrender to Truth, we could say, to (inner) Guru, but just different. Swamiji teaches us that they are the only choices at that point (in the story). , "astraea2003" <astraea2003> wrote: > Nitya Ma, > I had to read your post a couple of times before I understood that > you're referring to the Guru in Brian's story: that this Guru could > go from speaking from his Inner Guru to speaking from his egoic state. > > But not all Gurus are rooted in a waking samadhi ALL the time. I > think there are different levels of Gurus. Not all Gurus are equal. > Not all are jivanmukti. Am I misunderstanding something here? > > I thought only the highest form of Guru, a Satguru, is rooted in > Turiya at all times. > > Astraea > > , "nitya_ma" <nitya_ma> wrote: > > It's interesting to me you should go from inner guru to drama. > > I believe that when we are truly surrendered to inner guru, to > that "still small > > voice" of God, when She is directing all (or rather, we are > completely > > surrendered to that knowledge that She is directing all), we then > know who > > we truly are. And when we know who we truly are, we stand firmly > upon that > > truth. In standing firmly upon that truth, we can then witness Her > Dance, that > > is, the drama, without reaction (or with reaction of choice). > > The drama is a constant, there will always be the drama; this is > the essence of > > Nature--dance She will, because dance She must--or, change She > will, > > because change She must. That is who She is--that is Prakriti. > > In our place of witness--of perfect surrender and equanimity-- > we can finally > > learn to witness Her, rather than be pulled into that drama > unknowingly, > > thereby creating more prarabdha karma. We can be in this place of > witness > > because we are completely surrendered to guru--to that divine > voice, shall we > > say, in which we have perfect trust. > > In any other place we are, we become the drama---we identify > with it, we > > ignore the inner knowing and guidance--pure intuitive perception-- > which is > > our own Divine Self. Life dances us! rather than us dancing with > life in joyful > > surrender and abandon. > > Our beautiful Chandi Pathah shows us how easily we become the > drama > > in the very first chapter where both the king and the businessman > have > > forgotten (or not yet rediscovered) their true selves, and are > caught in this > > drama by their very nature (all of our "natures" when we haven't > come to know > > our Divine Nature). When they come to know their Divine Nature, > the drama > > of the Divine Mother is just witnessed by them--and they can > reclaim their > > kingdom, or remain in full union with Her. > > > > > > > > > > , Brian McKee <brian@s...> wrote: > > > This is a true story. It happened in the early nineties. > > > > > > My guru initiated me in October 1991. > > > > > > During one of the retreats on which he took us he gave us a > pretty strict > > > regimen to follow. Up at 6:00 for an hour and a half of > meditation. > > > Followed by breakfast, a small break and then he would give us a > > discourse. > > > > > > The discourse was different. He tuned to some higher form of > himself or > > > maybe it was Guru Tatva, I really don't know, but he would close > his eyes > > > and speak from his solar plexus. > > > > > > One morning he scolded us for being tired, he told us Americans > sleep too > > > much. He said, "I am your Guru you should respect and listen to > me, I > > > really do know what's best for you." > > > > > > Not fifteen minutes later, after the discourse, in a very casual > question > > > and answer period where his eyes were opened and he was smiling > and > > > laughing, someone asked him about Guru and he said, "I am not > your Guru, > > > your Guru is in here." And he pointed to the person's chest. > > > > > > This example had me perplexed for the longest time. My > engineering > > > scientific mind was really quite disturbed at his apparent change > of opinion. > > > > > > I think this is a perfect example of the duality of consciousness > here on > > > the earth plane. > > > > > > When he was giving the dissertation he was speaking from Guru's > > > perspective, but later he spoke as himself, as his ego. We all > have that > > > duality within us, it is the ending of that duality that is the > spiritual > > > seeker's ultimate goal. Or at least this spiritual seekers > ultimate goal. > > > > > > I want to walk around with god looking through my eyes and god > hearing > > with > > > my ears. > > > > > > I think Kelly was saying that one does not need a guru because > one is guru. > > > One's true self, or higher self or oversoul or ParamAtman or what > ever you > > > want to call it is guru. Even if we have not been initiated by a > guru of > > > the flesh we can just as easily be initiated by a guru within our > heart, or > > > even by our very own soul. > > > > > > Paramahansa Yogananda once said that when the student is ready, > the > > master > > > will appear. I don't think he was the first to say it though, he > was just > > > the first I heard say it. > > > > > > If you are ready to receive the light of god, then the master > will appear > > > to you. If there are no physical masters around, then she will > come in your > > > sleep or in your day dreams or in a corner of your vision, or as > a little > > > voice in your head or heart. > > > > > > I think our goal is to prepare a place for God(des) in our heart. > If we > > > make it fancy and full of love for her, then how can she not come? > > > > > > There have been some reactions in this thread lately. Everyone > needs to > > > check themselves and ask, "have I reacted to something someone > has > > said?" > > > > > > And let the question bounce around in your head and heart for a > while > > > before you react and say, "No." > > > > > > If the answer is "Yes," then you need to accept it and ask > yourself, "Why > > > did I react? What was so upsetting to me?" > > > > > > The answer to that question may not come easily and it may not > feel good > > > when it does at first, but it will be quite liberating. Of that > you can be > > > sure. > > > > > > When present, drama indicates unhealed trauma. > > > > > > So look around you and spot the drama. Where is it originating > from? And > > > are you playing into it? Are you making yourself part of the > drama? Are you > > > making the drama in the first place? > > > > > > If so, why? > > > > > > Drama is a very interesting subject. Humans make it all the time > and the > > > answers to its causes are so fascinating. Why do you make drama? > Anyone > > know? > > > > > > I know some of the reasons I make it. I'll hold back for now > though. I'd > > > like you all to think about it for a while, do some soul > searching. > > > > > > *hugs* > > > > > > Brian > > > > > > > > > --- > > > Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. > > > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). > > > Version: 6.0.524 / Virus Database: 321 - Release 10/6/2003 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted October 14, 2003 I really enjoy your posts and read them slowly. I think the main confusion was about some of the comments from other devotee's alluding the idea that one had to have a physical Guru or a transmission. I know I get confused about what people are talking about because so many make a difference and are relating to physical Guru's and some the Inner Guru. It's hard to know by reading sometimes. You mentioned in a previous article that once the Inner Guru is known we can rest firmly in that knowing and witness the drama without reaction. I think alot of people think witnessing the drama means being a bump on a log. I asked in a previous post about the drama of the devotee, what you call the Divine Drama between the Lover and their Beloved or sometimes Challenge if She is Change. We all have one going on all the time. I know when dramatic events happened in Ramakrishna's life that he cried, he was effected by externals - the obvious human element. He was also effected by who came around and who didn't, again the human element. It appears that he didn't have forebearance as he so deperately avoided certain individuals for whatever karma they had - this is human, we all do it..... He also told us to "Hiss" like a snake at those who would deter us off the path. Hissing at our own fearful projections of another, this is human too, we all do it. Does this mean his enlightenment went out the window that moment? Nope. There are stories all over about how the Bramanjnani or Enlightened One appeared dramatic in mundane circumstance. How the devotee's judged their Masters for being emotional. I think it's important to not judge the book by it's cover and think drama means you are far from Guru or Maa, - which results in statements: ,"A ha! That person is making it up! What a story! or "Not so far along the path now are you???" Haughty chuckle chuckle.... I think the expectation of not appearing dramatic can hinder one's devotion and I think we should embrace that Divine Drama and be in awe of the wonder of it all as well as our humaneness. I once was explaining what I call the Human Element to my pundit friend and I said, to be Human was something to aspire to. Reaction from instinct is the Animal Nature (our cute and cuddly sometimes fericious friends). Being Human was being compassionate and having Humaneness towards everyone. Most often we call being Human as something bad or imperfect when I've seen very few be Human in the truest sense. They call us Human Beings...Animal Being vs. Human Being. BEING a Human is you and me being Humane, and Humane Beings are divine, but as long as Ma has her funny bone, there will be drama. Is the Divine far from being Human in it's Truest sense? Can one be Divine without truely being Human? It's odd how aspirants try to be Divine without first being Human, drama and all. If they judge the human drama as bad, then the Divine Drama most likely will be judged. At the end of your post you mention Swamiji says there are only 2 choices at that point. Removal of egotism and possession and Samadhi or to go back to the Kingdom and rule from a place of Dharma. When one is right square in the middle of this fork in the road, is it neccessary to chose? Doesn't God do the choosing for the perfectly surrendered devotee? If a monk rules an ashram from a place of Dharma, he still has his kingdom, but does this mean he misses out on samadhi? Is there really a choice in the end or the appearance of one? I hope I didn't get too far off topic. nitya_ma <nitya_ma > wrote: Astraea,I wasn't actually referring to the Guru in Brian's story. I was referring to inner guru (he said, " one's true self or paramatman, etc...").That is what we ultimately surrender to--that Divine Voice, Divine Mother Herself, our own Divine Soul. Satguru comes from there (the Guru in Brian's story pointed to his chest), from that place of Truth, of Knowing: Satchitananda. So many ways to refer to that Truth. But it has nothing to do with ego. It is however, our divine drama.Then, I was alluding to two choices in the end of my post:In the Chandi, the two main characters listening to the teachings of the rishi are the King (Good Thoughts) and the businessman (samadhi).After their awakening (many episodes later ) and many years (three) of continual tapasya,they each ask for a boon from Divine Mother.Good Thoughts, the king, asks for his kingdom back; of course this time as he rules his kingdom (his "self") he is coming from an enlightened, dharmic place, and lives completely in Good Thoughts. Previously,he had lost his "kingdom" trying to manage all without surrender to Divinity, to the Divine Mother herself, and found it impossible without the invasion of negativity and destructive forces.Samadhi, the businessman, by that time indifferent to objects in the world, asks for knowledge which "removes the attachment to egotism and possession", and She gives him the "highest wisdom by which" he attainsliberation,or samadhi--union with the Divine.These are two different choices in surrender to Truth, we could say, to (inner) Guru, but just different. Swamiji teaches us that they are the only choices at that point (in the story)., "astraea2003" <astraea2003> wrote:> Nitya Ma,> I had to read your post a couple of times before I understood that > you're referring to the Guru in Brian's story: that this Guru could > go from speaking from his Inner Guru to speaking from his egoic state.> > But not all Gurus are rooted in a waking samadhi ALL the time. I > think there are different levels of Gurus. Not all Gurus are equal. > Not all are jivanmukti. Am I misunderstanding something here?> > I thought only the highest form of Guru, a Satguru, is rooted in > Turiya at all times.> > Astraea> > , "nitya_ma" <nitya_ma> wrote:> > It's interesting to me you should go from inner guru to drama.> > I believe that when we are truly surrendered to inner guru, to > that "still small > > voice" of God, when She is directing all (or rather, we are > completely > > surrendered to that knowledge that She is directing all), we then > know who > > we truly are. And when we know who we truly are, we stand firmly > upon that > > truth. In standing firmly upon that truth, we can then witness Her > Dance, that > > is, the drama, without reaction (or with reaction of choice).> > The drama is a constant, there will always be the drama; this is > the essence of > > Nature--dance She will, because dance She must--or, change She > will, > > because change She must. That is who She is--that is Prakriti.> > In our place of witness--of perfect surrender and equanimity--> we can finally > > learn to witness Her, rather than be pulled into that drama > unknowingly, > > thereby creating more prarabdha karma. We can be in this place of > witness > > because we are completely surrendered to guru--to that divine > voice, shall we > > say, in which we have perfect trust.> > In any other place we are, we become the drama---we identify > with it, we > > ignore the inner knowing and guidance--pure intuitive perception--> which is > > our own Divine Self. Life dances us! rather than us dancing with > life in joyful > > surrender and abandon.> > Our beautiful Chandi Pathah shows us how easily we become the > drama > > in the very first chapter where both the king and the businessman > have > > forgotten (or not yet rediscovered) their true selves, and are > caught in this > > drama by their very nature (all of our "natures" when we haven't > come to know > > our Divine Nature). When they come to know their Divine Nature, > the drama > > of the Divine Mother is just witnessed by them--and they can > reclaim their > > kingdom, or remain in full union with Her.> > > > > > > > > > --- In , Brian McKee <brian@s...> wrote:> > > This is a true story. It happened in the early nineties.> > > > > > My guru initiated me in October 1991.> > > > > > During one of the retreats on which he took us he gave us a > pretty strict > > > regimen to follow. Up at 6:00 for an hour and a half of > meditation. > > > Followed by breakfast, a small break and then he would give us a > > discourse.> > > > > > The discourse was different. He tuned to some higher form of > himself or > > > maybe it was Guru Tatva, I really don't know, but he would close > his eyes > > > and speak from his solar plexus.> > > > > > One morning he scolded us for being tired, he told us Americans > sleep too > > > much. He said, "I am your Guru you should respect and listen to > me, I > > > really do know what's best for you."> > > > > > Not fifteen minutes later, after the discourse, in a very casual > question > > > and answer period where his eyes were opened and he was smiling > and > > > laughing, someone asked him about Guru and he said, "I am not > your Guru, > > > your Guru is in here." And he pointed to the person's chest.> > > > > > This example had me perplexed for the longest time. My > engineering > > > scientific mind was really quite disturbed at his apparent change > of opinion.> > > > > > I think this is a perfect example of the duality of consciousness > here on > > > the earth plane.> > > > > > When he was giving the dissertation he was speaking from Guru's > > > perspective, but later he spoke as himself, as his ego. We all > have that > > > duality within us, it is the ending of that duality that is the > spiritual > > > seeker's ultimate goal. Or at least this spiritual seekers > ultimate goal.> > > > > > I want to walk around with god looking through my eyes and god > hearing > > with > > > my ears.> > > > > > I think Kelly was saying that one does not need a guru because > one is guru. > > > One's true self, or higher self or oversoul or ParamAtman or what > ever you > > > want to call it is guru. Even if we have not been initiated by a > guru of > > > the flesh we can just as easily be initiated by a guru within our > heart, or > > > even by our very own soul.> > > > > > Paramahansa Yogananda once said that when the student is ready, > the > > master > > > will appear. I don't think he was the first to say it though, he > was just > > > the first I heard say it.> > > > > > If you are ready to receive the light of god, then the master > will appear > > > to you. If there are no physical masters around, then she will > come in your > > > sleep or in your day dreams or in a corner of your vision, or as > a little > > > voice in your head or heart.> > > > > > I think our goal is to prepare a place for God(des) in our heart. > If we > > > make it fancy and full of love for her, then how can she not come?> > > > > > There have been some reactions in this thread lately. Everyone > needs to > > > check themselves and ask, "have I reacted to something someone > has > > said?"> > > > > > And let the question bounce around in your head and heart for a > while > > > before you react and say, "No."> > > > > > If the answer is "Yes," then you need to accept it and ask > yourself, "Why > > > did I react? What was so upsetting to me?"> > > > > > The answer to that question may not come easily and it may not > feel good > > > when it does at first, but it will be quite liberating. Of that > you can be > > > sure.> > > > > > When present, drama indicates unhealed trauma.> > > > > > So look around you and spot the drama. Where is it originating > from? And > > > are you playing into it? Are you making yourself part of the > drama? Are you > > > making the drama in the first place?> > > > > > If so, why?> > > > > > Drama is a very interesting subject. Humans make it all the time > and the > > > answers to its causes are so fascinating. Why do you make drama? > Anyone > > know?> > > > > > I know some of the reasons I make it. I'll hold back for now > though. I'd > > > like you all to think about it for a while, do some soul > searching.> > > > > > *hugs*> > > > > > Brian> > > > > > > > > ---> > > Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.> > > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).> > > Version: 6.0.524 / Virus Database: 321 - Release 10/6/2003To from this group, send an email to:Your use of is subject to the The New with improved product search Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
