Meditation

September 23, 2003

Hi Everyone...

I have been practicing Ashtanga for a while now and my meditation

practice has been predominantly Vipassana. However, over recent

weeks when I am entering an absorbtion in meditation I get this

unexplainable urge to meditate on either Shiva or Kali!!!

This is most disconcerting for me as it goes against the grain of

Mindfulness Meditation.

If I am to perform this meditation can anyone give me some

directions:

How am I to meditate on the Goddess?

What is the desired goal with this form of meditation?

Regards

Tony...

September 23, 2003

Hi Tony. Namaste.

>From my own experience of Kali and Siva, when I meditate

on them I become very mindful. I have always approached my path

like a mad scientist. We must experiment and experience

for ourselves different ways so we know what works for us.

If I were you, I would stretch my limits and see if it

really 'goes against the grain'. Maybe Kali and Siva want

you more than you want Them? Wouldn't that be a wonderful

thing to experience, the Reality that God wants us more than

we could imagine. Do we feel worthy? If not we need to work on it.

It could be that it is time for a more

intimate relationship with the Divine. You can practice

both if you want, Vipassana and Meditation on Divine Forms.

There is one thing that no one can take away and that

is your personal experience of the Divine. In order to

experience, we might have to go against the grain to get

past certain dogma's so that we can propel upward. Dogma

can be alot of weight on the path, has always felt heavy

to me.

The way I meditate on Ma is first to breathe. I'm a rebirther

so I like alot of Shakti in my body and heart. I imagine that I

breathe Her and She breathes me. I look at Her in my imagination.

Like a child I climb on her lap and I wrap her tresses around my body

for protection and privacy...at this time I am her ONLY Child and She

is ALL MINE. (I'm possessive:) Then I surrender as much as I and She

are willing and capable of. The more intense the Love, the more Her

form disolves into an experience of rapture. You really have to get

high off Love and She will take you there. You also have to throw

out self consciousness. It's you and Her and anything goes because

it's Your Relationship with Her. Do not be worried of what other

people think as you build your relationship. The more you build the

intimacy the more She will speak to you thru others and the more

Mindfull you will become since She is in All. You must be sincere

and if your not that is ok too, She will teach you in her own way:)

Remember, it's YOUR relationship with her that matters. Whatever

your nature, that is how the relationship with manifest and that is

ok. One prayer that makes a huge difference for me on the path

is "Give me eyes to see and ears to hear so that I can experience

Your Love". What others think and feel of Her is their

relationship. Take what works and throw the rest away. Like a

journey up the mountain, you only take the tools with you that you

need and that will get you to the top of the mountain. Do not burden

yourself by carrying things 'others' have told you to carry even if

it's spiritual Dogma's. They too need to be abandoned sooner or

later, better sooner than later. Crying is a good thing, never be

ashamed. One must cry actually, it moves stuck energy and cleanses

the heart. If I can't cry for God, then I cry BECAUSE I can't cry

for God:)

As for Siva, my relationship with Siva is sweet, but in a different

way than with Ma. Read about Siva and Kali and their Lila's. Then

in your imaginings place yourself there and let the relationship

build. If some say this is a no-no, it's their no-no..remember, your

a mad scientist and your job is to experience. A little vipissana,

alittle bhakti, alittle asthanga might be your recipe for

transformation. True transformation happens at all levels and

without emotional transformation, the other levels of being will not

be transformed. Cultivate Bhakti so that your emotions can purify.

Do not think the emotions are lesser than the thoughts, if you do,

you will avoid the emotional purification that is neccessary or true

transformation. Thinking transformation is not enough. Cry, feel,

throw a temper tantrum, WHATEVER IT TAKES!!!

When you get advice from others do what feels right or what inspires

you...including mine. Take what works and leave what doesn't.

If your urge is unexplainable, once you experience more, you will be

able to explain it:) Let the Divine Forms take you on a Divine

Journey. You are safe.

Namaste,

Kelly

, "craghopper2003"

<craghopper2003> wrote:

> Hi Everyone...

>

> I have been practicing Ashtanga for a while now and my meditation

> practice has been predominantly Vipassana. However, over recent

> weeks when I am entering an absorbtion in meditation I get this

> unexplainable urge to meditate on either Shiva or Kali!!!

>

> This is most disconcerting for me as it goes against the grain of

> Mindfulness Meditation.

>

> If I am to perform this meditation can anyone give me some

> directions:

>

> How am I to meditate on the Goddess?

> What is the desired goal with this form of meditation?

>

> Regards

>

> Tony...

September 26, 2003

Namaste Tony-Ji,

I thought about your post for a few days, and this morning what came

to me was that your karmic streams and mindstream are being brought

to the Shiva Shakti meditation in order to purify something in you

that is not yet resolved. Non-dual meditation like Vipassana is often

difficult, and the Deities appear in order to purify our latent

"form-based" notions.

You are aware of the need for Skillful Means. The Deities are a Skillful Means.

For example, my guru, Traktung Khepa Rimpoche realized Non-dual

awareness when he got enlightened. He still saw all the things of the

world, and he also saw the gods and goddesses - everything liberated

in Non-dual view.

When he started teaching, people couldn't really understand his state.

So he stopped talking about Non-dual view to his students, and

instead, began to translate the enlightened activities of the Yidams

that were constantly dancing around doing teachings and mandalas and

termas and stuff in his mindstream. That proved to have the Skillful

Means that his students could understand and base a practice upon.

All that time, he had been "ignoring" the Yidams and their

activities, like you mentioned you ignore "separate" forms in

Mindfullness.

Jesse Arana (Kailash)

www.meditationinfocus.com

craghopper2003

[craghopper2003 (AT) (DOT) co.uk] Tuesday, September 23, 2003

3:40 AMSubject:

***Meditation***Hi Everyone...I have been practicing Ashtanga for a

while now and my meditation practice has been predominantly

Vipassana. However, over recent weeks when I am entering an

absorbtion in meditation I get this unexplainable urge to meditate on

either Shiva or Kali!!!This is most disconcerting for me as it goes

against the grain of Mindfulness Meditation.If I am to perform this

meditation can anyone give me some directions:How am I to meditate on

the Goddess?What is the desired goal with this form of

meditation?RegardsTony...To from this group, send an

email to:Your use of

Groups is subject to the

September 27, 2003

I wanted to check with you and see if you had your questions answered

to your satisfaction. I didn't see much that I found satisfying

posted, but realize your needs are likely different than I imagine

them to be, and perhaps you were answered via email. I think your

experience and questions are important and deserve a considered

response.

Please let me know how you feel, and if I can offer anything of value

to you I will be happy to do so, though I am not qualified to guide

anyone.

Chriscraghopper2003 <craghopper2003 (AT) (DOT) co.uk> wrote:

Hi Everyone...I have been practicing Ashtanga for a while now and my

meditation practice has been predominantly Vipassana. However, over

recent weeks when I am entering an absorbtion in meditation I get

this unexplainable urge to meditate on either Shiva or Kali!!!This is

most disconcerting for me as it goes against the grain of Mindfulness

Meditation.If I am to perform this meditation can anyone give me some

directions:How am I to meditate on the Goddess?What is the desired

goal with this form of meditation?RegardsTony...To from

this group, send an email

to:Your use of

is subject to the

The New with improved product search

September 27, 2003

Chris,

I would love to read your response in the group. Clearly you have something on your mind.

Jesse Arana (Kailash)

www.meditationinfocus.com

chris kirner

[chriskirner1956 ] Saturday, September 27, 2003

6:30 PMSubject: Re:

***Meditation***

Tony,