The Real Position of Devotee Women

[Beggar 0]

Tridandisvami Sri Srimad Bhaktivedanta Narayana Maharaja

FOR PROPER UNDERSTANDING OF

SRILA PRABHUPADA'S BOOKS

The Hague, Holland: July 12, 2005

Some people have doubts. They think that Srila Bhaktivedanta Swami Maharaja has said that women and black people are very low. The fact is that he has not said it, and it is actually a wrong idea – a very wrong idea. You should know you are neither male nor female. The soul is transcendental – a servant of Lord Sri Krsna, but we have now accepted a female or male form. *[see Endnote 1]

It is not that the intelligence is low in ladies and high in men. It is also not true that black people are necessarily sudras. Who are sudras? Those who eat cow-flesh and drink alcohol, and those who cheat others. Sudras are those engaged in diplomacy, hypocrisy and envy – whether they are black or white. I will speak something more on this topic, with reference to Srimad-Bhagavatam.

You should know that we are all spirit souls. The soul is not white or black. All souls are very beautiful. Regarding the transcendental form of the soul, there is no question of who is less intelligent or more intelligent. If ladies are so low-class and so low in intelligence, how could the gopis have defeated even Lord Sri Krsna? *[see Endnote 2] Why does our guru-parampara, beginning from Brahma and Narada, worship the gopis? Why did Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu – Sri Krsna Himself – adopt Srimati Radha's mood? Srimati Radhika always defeats Krsna in beauty, in intelligence, and in all other ways. If ladies are less, why do we Gaudiya Vaisnavas want to be gopis? Who in our Gaudiya parampara does not want to be a gopi? We want to serve Lord Krsna and Srimati Radhika in a female form, not a male form. So how is it possible that this female form is lower? Don’t think like this.

It has been sometimes stated in the scriptures that there are some specialities in ladies; ladies can have children. Men cannot do this, not even if they were to have an operation. If a man has an operation to become a lady, still he cannot have children. Also, ladies are very affectionate. They always have a service-mood. A boy will say, "Sister, give me water. Mother, give me water." But ladies will not say, "Oh, brother, Oh father, give me water." These are specialties.

Some persons think that Srila Bhaktivedanta Swami Maharaja and the scriptures discern someone's qualities on the basis of birth. This is not true. *[see Endnote 3] Srila Vyasadeva appeared in a family of sudras, and Sri Narada Rsi was also born in a sudra-family. However, whoever calls them sudras will go to hell. Srila Haridasa Thakura was born in a Muslim family. He appeared in a family in which cows were slaughtered and their flesh eaten, but he is not a Muslim.

Ramananda Raya said about himself, "I am sudra." This is trnad-api-sunicena – humility. Mahaprabhu said about Himself, "I am a Mayavadi sannyasi." Was he a Mayavadi sannyasi? Of course not. Do not think that He was a Mayavadi. One may say that He Himself said so, but He said so only out of trinad-api-sunicena.

Throw out all these doubts – the ideas that Srila Bhaktivedanta Swami Maharaja has written something against ladies and black people. It is not correct. If anyone has explained his words in this way, perhaps they didn’t understand his idea. Perhaps they have made mistakes in their editing. He, or anyone like him, will never write like this. What is written in the Bhagavatam is true.

The Hague, Holland: July 13, 2005

Some persons have told me that when they read Pujyapada Srila Bhaktivedanta Swami Maharaja's translations of Srimad-Bhagavatam, and especially his purports, they lose their faith in Krsna-consciousness. They say this is because his books state that ladies are inferior, and that black people are all sudras and cannot have bhakti. So many people who were in ISKCON left because of this.

In this regard, I want to tell you all that in the Bhagavad-gita it is written:

mam hi partha vyapasritya

ye ’pi syuh papa-yonayah

striyo vaisyas tatha sudras

te ’pi yanti param gatim

[At this time Srila Narayana Maharaja called on a devotee to read the translation, as it is written in a 1970 BBT printing.]

[Devotee reads aloud:] "O son of Prtha, those who take shelter in Me, though they be of lower birth – women, vaisyas (merchants) and sudras (workers) – can attain the supreme destination." (Bhagavad Gita 9.32)]

 

[Devotee:] Sri Krsna is saying, "O Arjuna, those who take shelter of Me, although they may be of a lower birth, like women, vaisyas and sudras, can still attain the supreme destination.

[srila Narayana Maharaja:] What you have explained is totally wrong. This is why they are confused and have doubts. Mam hi partha vyapasrtya. After the word 'papa-yoniya' (sinful species) there should be a comma, not a hyphen, and not the word 'like'. Stri – women – are not papa-yoni. Sudras are also not papa-yoni. Who are papa-yoni? Srimad-Bhagavatam explains this:

kirata-hunandhra-pulinda-pulkasa

abhira-sumbha yavanah khasadayah

ye 'nye ca papa yad-apasrayasrayah

sudhyanti tasmai prabhavisnave namah

["Kirata, Huna, Andhra, Pulinda, Pulkasa, Abhira, Sumbha, Yavana, members of the Khasa races and even others addicted to sinful acts can be purified by taking shelter of the devotees of the Lord, due to His being the supreme power. I beg to offer my respectful obeisances unto Him." (Srimad Bhagavatam 2.4.18)]

They are papa-yoni, because they have no Krsna-consciousness. They eat meat and eggs, and they drink wine and large quantities of alcohol. They smoke and engage in so many sinful activities. They are papa-yoni. For stri (women), it has only been said that they have some monthly impurity. They are not inferior.

Regarding sudras, who is Sri Narada Rsi? In what class was he born? Narada was a dasi-putra, the son of a maidservant. Was he low class? Srila Vyasadeva was born from the womb of a sudra mother, and Prahlada was the son of an atheistic demon. Vidura was also born of a sudra mother, and there are so many others like him. Should we reject them? According to the Vedic system of classification, women, vaisyas and sudras are not papa-yoni. Nowhere has this been written.

Another misunderstanding of Srila Swami Maharaja's intention is found in the edited and published version of his purport to Srimad-Bhagavatam 4.26.26. We find there:

"Generally when a woman is attacked by a man – whether her husband or some other man – she enjoys the attack, being too lusty." *[see Endnote 4]

In the verse itself, nothing like this has been written – that ladies are less-intelligent, or that they cannot perform bhajana, or that they are lusty and men are not so. The verse states: "My dear Queen, due to my sinful desires I went to the forest to hunt without asking you. Therefore I must admit that I have offended you. Nonetheless, thinking of me as your most intimate subordinate, you should still be very much pleased with me. Factually I am very much bereaved, but being pierced by the arrow of Cupid, I am feeling lusty. But where is the beautiful woman who would give up her lusty husband and refuse to unite with him?"

It has never been written that men are not very lusty. Men are also lusty. *[see Endnote 5] Moreover, it is the soul who comes in a male-form or women-form; so all are equal.

All the Rsis of Dandakaranya were male. They prayed to Lord Ramacandra, "We want to be like the gopis." Then, by Lord Rama's mercy they became perfectly self-realized and went to Vraja. There, taking birth from the wombs of gopis, they attained the forms of gopis. Were they less intelligent? We should not think like that.

Srila Swami Maharaja has written that in some cases there is some speciality in women and in some cases some speciality in male. This has also been told in Srimad-Bhagavatam. So we should not think that ladies cannot perform bhakti or that they are less intelligent or inferior – nor should we think that Srila Swami Maharaja has said so.

It is stated in Sri Jagadananda Pandita's Prema-Vivarta,

yadi caha pranaya rakhite gaurangera sane

chota haridasera katha thake yena mane

["If you wish to associate with Caitanya Mahaprabhu, you must always remember the incident of Chota Haridasa and how he was rejected by the Lord."]

What is the meaning? Ladies are very attractive and beautiful, so men should not mix with them. But ladies are also advised not to mix with men. The advice is for both. We should not think that ladies are inferior or less intelligent. We should not think in this way.

Those with doubts have quoted a statement from Srila Swami Maharaja's purport: "It may be clearly said that the understanding of a woman is always inferior to the understanding of a man." In the original verse it hasn’t been written like this. I think that some of the purports given by Srila Swami Maharaja have been somewhat changed by editors. I have read Srila Swami Maharaja's books in their entirety, and therefore I know that he would never write like this.

I don’t agree with this statement, and he could never have written it. You should try to reconcile such statements, and don’t be worried about this. What has been written in Srimad-Bhagavatam is all right, and if something in the purport is different from the Srimad-Bhagavatam version, it is due to the fact that the editing was incorrect.

Do you know Lord Brahma? He begot a beautiful daughter named Sarasvati and began pursuing her. She at once became a lady deer and began to run, and he became a male deer. Marici was present and he said, "Father, what are you doing? You are intelligent. You should know that everybody will laugh at you. Don't do this." Marici's six sons began to laugh, and then Lord Brahma cursed them. They became the sons of Kalanemi, and in their following birth they became the six sons of Devaki, who were killed by Kamsa. They could not understand Lord Brahma, but Marici understood. He did not commit an offence, but they did so. We should be very careful.

I read everything that Srila Swami Maharaja wrote, and everything is ok – the only thing is that there is some mis-editing. Some persons cannot reconcile. They say papa-yoni, meaning sinful, necessarily applies to ladies. This is quite wrong.

It is stated in Srimad-Bhagavatam:

purnah pulindya urugaya-padabja-raga

sri-kunkumena dayita-stana-manditena

tad-darsana-smara-rujas trna-rusitena

limpantya anana-kucesu jahus tad-adhim

["Some other Vraja gopi said: O sakhis! We consider the young aborigine women (Pulindis) to be truly blessed and successful, because they possess extraordinary attachment (anuraga) for Sri Krsna within their hearts. When they see our dearmost beloved Krsna, an intense desire to meet with Him is aroused within their hearts. Their hearts are struck with the disease of love. At that time, they smear their breasts and faces with the reddish kunkuma powder collected from the grass of Vrindavana. The beloved gopis of Krsna had adorned their breasts with this kunkuma powder and it then becomes affixed to Sri Krsna's lotus feet. When Syamasundara walks about Vrndavana, the grass becomes covered with this powder. The supremely fortunate Pulindi girls smear their breasts and faces with this powder, and in this way they alleviate the anguish of their love." (Srimad Bhagavatam 10.21.17)]

In the chapter called Venu-gita, Srimati Radhika prays that in Her next life she will take birth as a Pulinda girl. Although the Pulinda girls are born in families of aborigine tribesmen and have menial jobs like carrying firewood, Radhika says, "The Pulinda girls are most fortunate, because they place the dust of the lotus feet of Krsna on their breasts. I want to be a Pulinda girl." So you should not worry about a lady's so called high or low birth.

[Question:] Could you explain what Krsna meant when He said in the Bhagavad-gita that women, vaisyas and sudras are less than brahmanas and ksatriyas? We read that in Srila Prabhupada's translation.

[srila Narayana Maharaja:] Brahmana refers to "brahma-jnanati". Such bramanas are self-realized; they are not like the brahmanas of Kali-yuga. If a Vaisnava is really a Vaisnava, he will have no lust or anger, or any other bad qualities. If he has no envy, greed, pride or illusion, then he is brahmana. He is victorious over the six bad qualities.At that time, when Lord Sri Krsna spoke Bhagavad-gita, Vasistha, Atri, and so many other exalted devotees were present. They were real brahmanas. *[see Endnote 6]

The ksatriyas were engaged in war, in controlling the state, in taking taxes, and in many other political activities. The vaisyas were engaged in business and farming, but they also served the Vaisnavas and brahmanas. Then striya – ladies – they have children, and engage in such activities as serving their husbands and doing household work. For this reason it has been told that vaisyas, women and sudras are less than brahmanas and ksatriyas. But this has not been told about women like Arundhati, or Anasuya, Gargi, Gangamata Thakurani, Jahnava Thakurani or Hemlata Thakurani. This does not refer to them.

The Hague, Holland: July 14, 2005

I want to explain something regarding my class yesterday. In the Bhagavad-gita Sri Krsna made a statement about women:

mam hi partha vyapasritya

ye ’pi syuh papa-yonayah

striyo vaisyas tatha sudras

te ’pi yanti param gatim

What is the meaning? Srila Swami Maharaja has written: "O son of Pritha, anyone who will take shelter in Me…" This is very clear. "…whether a woman, or a merchant, or born in a low family, can yet approach the Supreme Destination." [Translation taken from the 1968 edition of Bhagavad-gita]

This is a very good translation. Everything is clear. This is the first edition, and it is clear here. Then, in the next edition which came out soon after that, I think the translation was changed to "not As It Is." Because the editors have no realization, they were bound to change the punctuation and wording to make it look like all women are of a low, sinful birth, less intelligent and so on. You should know the truth. If you want to know, you can read his original books. "O son of Pritha, anyone who will take shelter in Me" – very clear – "whether a woman, or a merchant, or born in a low family, can yet approach the Supreme Destination."

This is the original.

Amsterdam, Holland: July 15, 2005 – Darsana at Schiphol Airport

[Question:] Gurudeva, the other night you were speaking about the wrong editing of our Srila Prabhupada's books. Having heard your class, some devotees may become afraid to read his books now, doubting all his published books. They may be wondering if they are really getting Prabhupada, or someone else. Can you say something about that?

[srila Narayana Maharaja:] They should carefully read the books of Srila Bhaktivedanta Swami Maharaja. They should read all his books. Generally there will be no doubt, but where there is some doubt, they should see his original writing. There are so many changes in Srimad-Bhagavatam also.

[Question:] For many years it was preached in ISKCON that women are less intelligent than men.

[srila Narayana Maharaja:] Both women and men are transcendental parts of Krsna – jiva-tattva. *[see Endnote 7] Regarding their being less intelligent than men, there is no question of that.

[Question:] Then we could also say that if there is any doubt, the reader can go and ask a pure devotee. Yaha, bhagavata pada vaisnavera sthane

["If you want to understand Srimad-Bhagavatam, you must approach a self-realized Vaisnava and hear from him." (Caitanya-caritamrta, Antya-lila 5.131)]

[srila Narayana Maharaja:] They should see the original version.

[Question:] But even during Srila Prabhupada's lifetime, even the first time a book was published it had mistakes, because his disciples were new devotees at that time, including the editors.

[srila Narayana Maharaja:] My books also; they should not be changed. What I am writing or translating should stay the same. The editors should not try to explain more. If they will do that, they may fail. They may write something wrong.

Endnotes

 

*Endnote 1:

" 'I' is different from this body. I am living in this apartment, but I am not this apartment. But the modern civilization is going on on the basic idea that 'I am this body.' 'I am American.' 'I am Indian.' 'I am brahmacari.' 'I am ksatriya.' 'I am man.' 'I am woman.' This is condemned. This is condemned." (Lecture on Bhagavad-gita. Bombay, 29 December 1972)

*Endnote 2:

It is stated in the Gosvami's literatures that the gopis defeat Krsna in word games, dice games, wrestling and other sports.

"Just like gopis. The gopis were women and not very high class woman, cowherd's men, in the village, not in town, very educated, high society, brahmana, ksatriya, no. They all belonged to the vaisya class. And they were woman, not Vedantist, not scholar. But they conquered Krsna. Why? And that is this. They heard about Krsna, and they became lover of Krsna. That is required. So that is the real qualification. Caitanya Mahaprabhu, He was so strict about womanly association. Still, He recommended, ramya kacid upasana vrajavadhu-vargena ya kalpita: 'There is no better type of worshipping Krsna than tha system which vraja-vadhu, the gopis, adoped to love Krsna. That is the first-class.'" (Purport to Parama Koruna. Atlanta, 28 February 1975)

*Endnote 3:

"The Krsna consciousness movement, therefore, is a cultural movement that does not care about local social conventions. Following in the footsteps of Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu and Advaita Acarya, we can accept a devotee from any part of the world and recognize him as a brahmana as soon as he is qualified due to following the principles of Vaisnava behavior." (Sri Caitanya-caritamrta, Antya-lila 3.221, purport)

"But what is today being labeled varnasrama is an atheistic concept totally unsupported by the scriptures. Real varnasrama is based not on birth but on people's qualities and activities. One cannot reach the goal of the scriptures by practicing today's demoniac caste system. Only the introduction of daivi-varnasrama, the transcendental varnasrama system, will serve the purpose of the scriptures. This will move humanity toward liberation." (Renunciation Through Wisdom, 5.1)

"We also give. 'Never mind you are sudra. You become brahmana. Come on. Be Krsna conscious.' That we also are giving. We don't deny, 'Oh, you are sudra, you cannot become a brahmana.' We don't say that. He canalso become a brahmana. 'Come on. You learn how to become brahmana.' That's all. That... The point is this equality, there cannot be. First point is this. This is nonsense. But everyone should be given the chance to occupy the best position. That is in our philosophy also. But unequality there must remain. You cannot make equality. It is not possible. That is nonsense. In your country there is not equality. Why an old woman – I have seen it – she is sweeping the street? So old woman, she should have taken rest, but she is engaged in sweeping the street. And a young man , he is becoming dictator. Where is the equality? She should have given rest, but she is obliged to work. And another young man, he is a manager. Why? Why this inequality? Where is equality? First of all settle up how you can make equal. That you cannot do. Then you are talking nonsense, 'equality.' It is not possible." (Morning Walk. Rome, 29 May 1974)

*Endnote 4:

"Besides the editing consideration mentioned by Srila Narayana Maharaja, the above quote was taken from the middle of Srila Prabhupada's purport. The beginning of the purport is: 'Both man and woman desire one another; that is the basic principle of material existence.'" (Srimad-Bhagavatam 4.26.26, purport)]

*Endnote 5:

"Everyone is lusty. Therefore they say 'legalized prostitution.' They want it. So marriage is something legalized, that's all. The passion and the desire is the same, either married or not married. So this Vedic law says, "Better married. Then you will be controlled." Married life... So he will not be so lusty as without married life." (Morning Walk. Perth, 11 May 1975)

*Endnote 6:

"So to know God means he must become a brahmana, real, qualified brahmana. Therefore brahmana is respected. Because, brahma-janatiti brahmana. But there is no law. Lawless country. Therefore one is passing as a brahmana without any knowledge of Brahman." (Room Conversation. London, 2 September 1973)

*Endnote 7:

"On the spiritual platform, the learned person not only gives up the duality of man and woman, but also gives up the duality of man and animal. This is the test of self-realization. One must realize perfectly that the living being is spirit soul but is tasting various types of material bodies." (Srimad-Bhagavatam 7.12.10, purport)

Defending Srila Prabhupada's Integrity

[Just before Srila Narayana Maharaja gave his 2005 Holland class regarding Prabhupada on the subject of women, he ordered us to compile some of Prabhupada's quotes in order to eradicate any doubt.

The purpose of this compilation is to defend Srila Prabhupada's integrity and the integrity of the Vedic literatures (including Srimad-Bhagavatam and Bhagavad-gita). Moreover, it is to help the devotees who have this doubt, because they don't really want to have it. They love Prabhupada and they want to serve the mission of his guru-parampara. They find some of his statements pinching, and that makes them sad because they don't want anything to come in the way of their devotional mood towards him. The purpose of this compilation, then, is to assist the devotees in reading those quotes in a different way – in the truly positive way in which Prabhupada intended them to be understood.

A concern was raised: "It sometimes appears that Prabhupada and the scriptures criticize women, saying that they are lower than men or that they are always compared with sudras." The quotes below have been compiled to assure such readers that this is not so. He does not criticize any particular class of persons. Rather he criticizes all consciousness other than Krsna consciousness, and his purpose of doing that is to encourage everyone to become Krsna-conscious and give up the fearful and miserable bodily concept of life.

The following document does not claim to be an exciting literary exposition. The quotes are arranged, not in the form of a dramatic literary article, but like a document, or something like an index. The excitement is in the quotes themselves. You will find the editors' comments in bold italics in brackets, and Prabhupada's statements in indents and normal font.]

I. "Woman" may mean "Man"

[The following doubt raises itself: "It sometimes appears that Prabhupada's books state that women are stumbling blocks for men on the path of spiritual life. This seems like a bias against women." In that regard it may be noted that Prabhupada and the scriptures often mean "man" when they use the word "woman":]

 

 

The training was that he was training to become a brahmana, samo, dama, but the progress became checked on account of being attached to a woman. Therefore according to Vedic civilization, the woman is accepted as hindrance to spiritual advancement. The whole basic civilization is how to avoid... Woman... You do not think that only woman is woman. The man is also woman. Don't think that the woman is condemned; man is not. Woman means enjoyed, and man means enjoyer. So this feeling, this feeling is condemned. If I see one woman for enjoyment, so I am man. And if woman also sees another man for enjoyment, she is also man. Woman means enjoyed and man means enjoyer. So anyone who has got feeling of enjoyment, he is considered to be man. So here both sexes meant for... Everyone is planning, "How I shall enjoy?" Therefore he is purusa, artificially. Otherwise, originally, we are all prakrti, jiva, either woman or man. This is outward dress.

(Lecture on Srimad-Bhagavatam. Vrndavana, 1 September 1975)

Two things: woman and money. If we become attracted... Woman means for man the woman is woman, and for the woman the man is woman. Not that woman means a particular class. Woman means which are enjoyable. So in this material world, the man is enjoyable by the woman, and the woman is enjoyable by the man. For both of them, visayinam sandarsanm atha yositam. Yosit means enjoyable.

(Lecture on Srimad-Bhagavatam. Vrndavana, 10 September 1976)

I always say, man is good, and woman is also good, but when they combine, then they become bad.

(Letter to Gurudasa. Bombay, 22 December 1975)

Illusioned by Your external energy, everyone, whether man or woman, is attached to this material existence, and all are engaged in cheating one another in a great society of the cheaters and the cheated.

(Krsna Book, Chapter 51)

II. Spiritual Equality of Men and Women

 

 

The spirit soul is equal in either a man or woman. In the Bhagavad-gita, 6th Chapter, 1st Verse it is stated "anasritah karma..." One who is actually engaged in the service of Krishna, there is no such distinction... phalam karijam karma karoti yah/ sa sannyasi ca yogi ca na niragnir na cakriyah. Anyone acting for Krishna, he is a sannyasi or sannyasini. It is also stated: striyo vaisyas tatha sudras te'pi yanti param gatim. So spiritually everyone is equal. But materially a woman cannot be given Sannyasa. But you should not be bothered because you are serving on the spiritual platform.

(Letter to Aditya. Mayapur, 4 February 1976)

In Caitanya Mahaprabhu's Movement, everyone is preacher, whether man or woman it doesn't matter. I do not know why Kirtanananda Maharaja is encouraging our woman devotees not to go out on Sankirtana for book distribution. Everyone should go out.

(Letter to Karandhara. Bombay, 6 October 1976)

Female Reporter: "Swami, I saw a television program about your movement once, and they said that the men make the decisions and the women follow. Is that true?"

Prabhupada: "I do not follow."

Srutakirti: "She hears that the men make the decisions and that the women follow these decisions."

Prabhupada: "Not necessarily. We follow the decision of Krsna, men and women both. We follow the decision of Krsna. That is applicable both men and women."

(Interview. New York, 5 March 1975)

Just a moment before, we were dancing and chanting equally, the boys, the girls, the men, the women. So there is no distinction. Even if we do not understand the language, what is the meaning of Hare Krsna, but because it is transcendental, because it is spiritual, from the spiritual platform, everything is equal. We forget that we are American, or we are Indian, we are child, we are youth, or man, or woman, because in the spiritual platform there is no such bodily distinction.

(Lecture. Montreal, 11 June 1968)

He may be a man, he may be a woman, he may be a sudra, he may be a brahmana or he may be black or he may be white. Everyone can approach to the highest platform of devotional service. It is open field."

(Lecture on Srimad-Bhagavatam. Montreal, 19 August 1968)

III. True Devotee Women Are Most Intelligent

 

 

Although Kunti had the body of a woman, she was a devotee. Therefore she was not like an ordinary, unintelligent woman. Rather, she was the most intelligent, for she recognized Krsna to be the Supreme Godhead.

(Teachings of Queen Kunti, Chapter 3)

Suniti, the mother of Dhruva, was a farseeing woman, and therefore she advised her son to worship the Supreme Lord and no one else.

(Srimad-Bhagavatam 4.8.23, Purport)

The Gopis Are the Topmost Intelligent

Uddhava is described as the most exalted personality in the Vrsni dynasty, being almost equal to Krsna. He was a great friend of Krsna's, and being the direct student of Brhaspati, the teacher and priest of the heavenly planets, he was very intelligent and sharp in decision. Intellectually, he was highly qualified. Krsna, being a very loving friend of Uddhava's, wanted to send him to Vrndavana just to study the highly elevated ecstatic devotional service practiced there. Even if one is highly elevated in material education and is even the disciple of Brhaspati, he still has to learn from the gopis and the other residents of Vrndavana how to love Krsna to the highest degree.

(Krsna Book, Chapter 46)

The gopis are the epitome of this perfectional stage of knowledge.

(Krsna Book, Chapter 47)

IV. Prabhupada's letters to his spiritual daughters

 

 

My Dear Govinda Dasi,

Please accept my blessings, and offer the same to Gaurasundara. I am so much pleased by reading your letter of June 26, 1969, describing your preaching activities in Hawaii, both husband and wife together... I was so much enlivened by hearing of your spirited preaching activities. I am proud that a little young girl like you is so much spirited in preaching Krishna consciousness... The whole world is full of fanatics and atheist classes of men, so sometimes we have to face such difficulties. But this is all tapasya. Without tapasya, nobody can approach Krishna. So preachers who boldly face all kinds of difficulties are considered to be under tapasya, and Krishna takes note of such tapasya of the devotee, and the devotee is recognized by Him. I have asked the BTG men to publish your heroic preaching activities under the heading of 'Heroine Govinda Dasi.'

(Letter to Govinda Dasi. Los Angeles, 7 July 1969)

Now you have got a good wife who is also intelligent girl and devotee, so live peacefully working together for pushing on this Krsna consciousness movement for the ultimate benefit of all concerned.

(Letter to Krsnakanti. Los Angeles, 1 August 1970)

In London, the six couples who are working very hard there have been very much appreciated by the people of London, and their character, behavior, and devotion are attracting sincere people to our movement. I want similar thousands of couples for my disciples to propagate our movement throughout the world. You can always help me in this matter because you are an intelligent girl and you have many talents. So you can utilize your god-gifted qualities for utilizing in Krishna Consciousness.

(Letter to Govinda. Los Angeles, 26 January 1969)

Being in the disciplic succession of Prahlada Maharaja certainly we are not interested for our personal liberation as much as we want to work for the liberation of the conditioned souls because Krishna desires it. So you are an intelligent girl, I need not talk much, and be happy in Krishna Consciousness business. I am very glad to learn that Muralidhara, Devahuti and Bharadraja are working together. You simply supervise them. I know Bharadraja is a very fast working painter and if he sticks to his work, certainly he will do wonderfully.

So far Devahuti is concerned, she is elder woman but very nice and sober as well as qualified. Because she is of the age of all of your mothers, she should be treated very respectfully. Nothing should be ordered to her but simply suggested so that she may work in her own way. You should personally see to the comforts and conveniences so that she may feel very happy to stay with you all young boys and girls."

(Letter to Jadurani. Los Angeles, 14 January 1970)

V. Women as spiritual master

 

 

My Dear Silavati...Your description of the course you are giving to the interested girls about the role they play in Krishna Consciousness is very nice, and I am pleased that you have begun this project. Actually the role of all conditioned souls is the same; to chant Hare Krishna, tell others to chant, perfect our lives in Krishna Consciousness, and to go back to Godhead when this body is finished. Now if you can induce all the women of Los Angeles to place an altar in their homes and help their husbands have peaceful, happy home life in Krishna Consciousness, that will be very great service for you. The actual system is that the husband is Spiritual Master to his wife, but if the wife can bring her husband into practicing this process, then it is all right that the husband accepts wife as Spiritual Master. Caitanya Mahaprabhu has said that anyone who knows the science of Krishna, that person should be accepted as Spiritual Master, regardless of any material so-called qualifications; such as rich or poor, man or woman, or brahmana or sudra. So if you can show the women of the community how to help their husbands and children to perfect their home life, and all aspects of life, in Krishna Consciousness by chanting, aratrik ceremonies, and eating Krishna prasadam, then you will improve the conditions of the neighboring communities to an incalculable extent. Your ever well-wisher.

(Letter to Silavati. New Vrndavana, 14 June 1969)

Prof. O'Connell: "Is it possible, Swamiji, for a woman to be a guru in the line of disciplic succession"?

Prabhupada: "Yes. Jahnava devi was – Nityananda's wife. She became. If she is able to go to the highest perfection of life, why it is not possible to become guru? But, not so many. Actually one who has attained the perfection, she can become guru. But man or woman, unless one has attained the perfection.... Yei Krsna-tattva-vetta sei guru haya [Cc. Madhya 8.128]. The qualification of guru is that he must be fully cognizant of the science of Krsna. Then he or she can become guru. Yei Krsna-tattva-vetta, sei guru haya. In our material world, is it any prohibition that woman cannot become professor? If she is qualified, she can become professor. What is the wrong there? She must be qualified. That is the position. So similarly, if the woman understands Krsna consciousness perfectly, she can become guru.

(Interview with Professors O'Connell)

Prabhupada: So a crazy man's statement is not accepted. Child's statement, crazy man's statement, unauthorized person's statement, blind man's statement, we cannot accept."

Atreya Rsi: "A woman's statement"?

Prabhupada: "Huh"?

Atreya Rsi: "A woman's..."

Prabhupada: "If a woman is perfect in Krsna consciousness... Just like Jahnava-devi, Lord Nityananda's wife, she was Acarya. She was Acarya. She was controlling the whole Vaisnava community."

(Interview. Toronto, 18 June 1976)

The prostitute shaved her head clean in accordance with Vaisnava principles and stayed in that room wearing only one cloth. Following in the footsteps of her spiritual master, she began chanting the Hare Krsna maha-mantra 300,000 times a day. She chanted throughout the entire day and night. She worshiped the tulasi plant, following in the footsteps of her spiritual master. Instead of eating regularly, she chewed whatever food she received as alms, and if nothing was supplied she would fast. Thus by eating frugally, and fasting she conquered her senses, and as soon as her senses were controlled, symptoms of love of Godhead appeared in her person. Thus the prostitute became a celebrated devotee. She became very advanced in spiritual life, and many stalwart Vaisnavas would come to see her.

(Caitanya-caritamrta, Antya-lila 3.140-142)

[Shakti-Fan 0]

I am Beggar's wife. The reason that we remain anonymous is that although we are closely associated with ISKCON, we also have Gaudiya Math friends. I guess you could say that we are "Gaudiya Math friendly" and that would be a big "no no" amongst many of our so-called friends. I am the one who originally found the article, which is from Hari Katha and I suggested that Beggar post it. If the points made by Srila Narayana Maharaja are true then we have really had the wool pulled over our eyes by ISKCON authorities! All those years of feeling less than male devotees. Of course what's really sad is that although things are not as bad as they once were for women in the movement, many of the bogus ideas about women and black people are still around. I feel really sad that someone who is really an authority can so clearly point these things out, but will never be accepted by most ISKCON devotees because he is "Gaudiya Math". Instead we get some watered down, wishy washy stuff from the GBC and anti-men devotee propaganda from devotee ladies who have become feminists. I feel that this is a very sad state of affairs

[Guest guest]

I agree whole heartedly! It's all there in Prabhupada's books. SOOO simple. Chant, dance, enjoy Krsna prasadam, go back to Godhead. We need to stop all this bickering and remember we are all spirit souls! These material bodies will be cast off like old clothing so who cares what sex or color they are in? We only use them to facilitate the path back to Krsna. This method is so sweet and simple: Think about it, I mean REALLY THINK ABOUT IT!

 

We can go back to God by singing, dancing, and feasting!! How awesome is that!

 

It is unfortunate that certain statements by Srila Prabhupada get misinterpreted and used in promoting unvaisnava like policies. If we could just stick to the formula: singing, dancing, krsna prasadam we will be fine.

[Shakti-Fan 0]

Still there is the reality of all the abuse of subordinates such as women and children that took place in ISKCON. If anyone was the recipient of that kind of mistreatment then they know how much it hurt. Some compassionate devotees, usually other women or children could really feel the pain of others who were mistreated. When you have so much belief that you're in a Vaikuntha atmosphere and you know things are going on like this, it becomes a big challenge to keep your faith in Prabhupada's Mission. I want to thank Shymarani (Jadurani) for making these talks of Srila Narayana Maharaja available to so many devotees. It's what I've needed to hear for a long time for it's helping me to heal and overcome lingering doubts. I have also been told that Srila Sridhar Maharaja said that, "no on can cheat us; we can only cheat ourselves". I have lady associates in the ISKCON community who jump up and down at Srila Prabhupada's guru puja but really have damaged faith and overall they have become very materialist in recent years. Yet I know if I tell them these things they'll want to know where they cae from and that they will treat me with suspicion.

[Guest guest]

"It has been sometimes stated in the scriptures that there are some specialities in ladies; ladies can have children. Men cannot do this, not even if they were to have an operation. If a man has an operation to become a lady, still he cannot have children. Also, ladies are very affectionate. They always have a service-mood. A boy will say, "Sister, give me water. Mother, give me water." But ladies will not say, "Oh, brother, Oh father, give me water." These are specialties"

 

This is due to conditioning in a male dominated society wherein females are trained from a very young age to "serve" males.

 

I never had any problem asking my father, brother or husband for water. Why should I?

[Beggar 0]

Of course, Srila Narayana Maharaja is speaking as a member of traditional Indian Society. Yet that is really the external viewpoint. His point is that generally ladies have a stronger serving tendency than men. So this is our goal in the Krsna Conscious Movement, to become reinstated as the eternal servants of Krsna, which is our intrinsic nature as jiva souls. The point he is making is that women generally have a head start in this process due to their nature, especially in light of the fact that followers of Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu and Sril Rupa Gosvami consider the soul to be female, relative to the Supreme Lord. Consequently it is ironic that devotee women have been considered at a disadvantage devotionally due to their nature. This is the point that he is making and it is a serious matter, very relevant to the contemporary Gaudiya Vaisnava society. As Srila Sridhar Maharaja so aptly put it, "try to dive deep into reality, search for Sri Krsna, Reality the Beautiful".

[Guest guest]

great post beggar