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Swaminarayan in The Vishvaksen Samitah

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lord Swaminarayan is predicted within the scriotures. You just dont want to belive it. Thats a fault on your behalf.

 

the Name Swami is also predicted. Lord Said he would come down as 'Swami'.

 

"Swami namna Hari Swayam".

 

As well as within the Vasudev Mahatmyam:

 

Maya krushnaen nihataha, sa arjunen raneshu ye

pravatiyishyantyasuraste tvadharm yada kshito

dharmdevatda murto nar narayanatmana

pravrutepi kalou brahman! bhutvaham samago dvija

munishaapaanutam praptam sarshi janakmatmanaha

tattovita gurubhyoham sadharmsthapaynaj

 

-Adhyay 18, shlokas 42,43,44

 

So you are wrong. he is predicted more than once!

You people say Chaitanya Mahaprabhu is the only incarnation in this time and the next one is KAlki Bhagwaan.

 

Well your missing this one! If you say you havent missed him, then where is this Avtaar? Where is this Shri Krishna promised avtaar born to dharmdev and murti and the atma of na narayan? Into a brahmin samved studying family.

Who is promised to come onto the earth in kaliyug because of a shraap of a muni? Establishing Sadharm once again coming in the form of a guru?

 

Swaminarayan was born in a Sarvaria brahmin samved studying family. He was born because of a shraap in Badrik Ashram by Durvas. This is the abode of Nar Narayan. He came onto the earth as in the form of a guru. Shri Krishna himself has explained this to Narad in Golok. All of which is explained within the Skand Puran

 

You lot are heavily mistaken.

 

All this is within the Skand Puran!!

Read up my dear friends.

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Dont consider all of the Swaminarayn followers as BAPS. Your mistaken to do so. The original doctrine still exist today and is named as Ahmedabad and Vadtal Diocese.

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So you are wrong. he is predicted more than once!

You people say Chaitanya Mahaprabhu is the only incarnation in this time and the next one is KAlki Bhagwaan

____

 

The difference is that we still accept fully well that "Lord Krishna is Avatari, the source of all incarnations".

 

That is percfectly in conjuntion with the Srimad Bhagavat which states:-

 

"ete cha amsha kala pumsha, Krishna's tu Bhagavan sywayam"

 

 

There are many expansions and incarnations, but still Only Krishna is the Original Godhead !

 

Lord Krishna is accepted as God by Narada, Asita, Devala , Vyasa, Brama, Shiva and so many recent authorities like Sankara, Mhadva , Ramanuja and others as God.

 

Thus in all our Temples Sri Krishna is the MAIN reciever of worship.

 

Jai Sri Krishna

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Yes well this same Shri Krishna IS Swaminarayn. So do you mean to say that Lord Ram is not Shri Krishna? He is different? Does that make the followers of Lord Raam do not worship the same Shri Krishna as Raam?

 

As in the Vasudev Mahatmyam Lord Shri Krishna expalins to Narad that Vaikunth is the same Golok and the Chaturbhuj form of mine in Vaikunth is the same Me which sits here in Golok.

 

Yes Lord Krishna is the Avtaari. But the same krishna is Raam and the rest of his incarnations as well.We believe the same. Just like you worship Chaitanya Mahaprabhu as an incarnation we worship Lord Swaminarayan. They both are avtaari as they both are Krishna. So this is how we believe the words of the Bhagwat:

 

"ete cha amsha kala pumsha, Krishna's tu Bhagavan sywayam"

 

You want the adhyay and Shloka for this.

 

He is the same Krishna. Just by declaring that only Shri Krisna is the supreme godhead doesnt mean that Lord Ram, or Vaman etc are not. They are too the supreme Godhead. Shri Swaminarayan states in teh Shikshapatri that Shri krishna Isthe Supreme Godhead. The other incarnations are him and he is the other incarnations.

 

So no matter what name you call him you attain his abode.

 

They are the same Krishna and by worshipping them you will attain him. The same goes for Shree Swaminarayan.

 

Now you find me a quote which states Raam or any of the other incarnations are not the same krishna, or the supreme Godhead or avtaari.

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Avatari means original godhead the one who is the original manifistation of all other incarnations like rama etc

 

"Now you find me a quote which states Raam or any of the other incarnations are not the same krishna, or the supreme Godhead or avtaari. "

 

Here is one from your own scriptures.

 

verse 108 of shikshapatri

"That Ishwara is Lord Shree Krishna: Parabrahman, Bhagawan, Purushottam, our beloved deity and cherished God. He is worthy of worship and devotion by all, and is the source of all incarnations."

 

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There have come out two issues here

 

A) | Krishna is Avatari |

 

All that is being said is that Sri Krishna is avatari !

 

Here are the references:-

 

1)

Here is the verse again from the bhagavat:

 

"ete cha amsha kala pumsha, Krishna's tu Bhagavan sywayam"

There are many expansions and incarnations, but still Only Krishna is the Original Godhead !

 

2)

Here is Lord Brahma confirming this in a similar verse:-

 

http://www.vedabase.net/bs/5/39/en2

 

Sri Brahma-samhita 5.39

 

ramadi-murtisu kala-niyamena tisthan

nanavataram akarod bhuvanesu kintu

krsnah svayam samabhavat paramah puman yo

govindam adi-purusam tam aham bhajami

 

SYNONYMS

 

rama-adi -- the incarnation of Lord Rama, etc.; murtisu -- in different forms; kala-niyamena -- by the order of plenary portions; tisthan -- existing; nana -- various; avataram -- incarnations; akarot -- executed; bhuvanesu -- within the worlds; kintu -- but; krsnah -- Lord Krsna; svayam -- personally; samabhavat -- appeared; paramah -- the supreme; puman -- person; yah -- who; govindam -- Govinda; adi-purusam -- the original person; tam -- Him; aham -- I; bhajami -- worship.

 

TRANSLATION

 

I worship Govinda, the primeval Lord, who manifested Himself personally as Krsna and the different avataras in the world in the forms of Rama, Nrsimha, Vamana, etc., as His subjective portions.

 

PURPORT

 

His subjective portions as the avataras, viz., Rama, etc., appear from Vaikuntha and His own form Krsna manifests Himself with Vraja in this world, from Goloka. The underlying sense is that Krsna Caitanya, identical with Krsna Himself, also brings about by His appearance the direct manifestation of Godhead Himself.

 

You see Krishna is still the Avatari, not at all subordinate to anyone.

 

No one is His source as claimed by someone here.

 

B) |Is Ram same as Krishna |

 

-------

Yes well this same Shri Krishna IS Swaminarayn. So do you mean to say that Lord Ram is not Shri Krishna? He is different? Does that make the followers of Lord Raam do not worship the same Shri Krishna as Raam?

-------

 

Dear friend, I did not say Ram is not Krishna, so please do not mix this issue with the Avatari issue.

 

As i can see that Sri Swami Narayan Says "Worship Krishna".

 

I am also from Gujrat and i can say with certainty that the followers of Sri Swami Narayan, attach much more importance to Siksha patri than to The Bhagavad Gita or The Srimad Bhagavat, the books, which deal with the exclusive subject matter of the Science of Sri Krishna.

 

Also the above people have more inclination to worship Sri Swami Narayan, than to worship Sri Krishna.

 

This is in direct contrast to the followers of Sri Krishna Chaitanya Mahaprabhu's, followers accepting the teaching of Sri Krishna Chaitanya Mahaprabhu, i.e. "Worship Krishna".

 

They attach utmost importance to he Bhagavad Gita or The Srimad Bhagavat, the books, which deal with the exclusive subject matter of the Science of Sri Krishna.

 

Also these people(Sri Krishna Chaitanya Mahaprabhu's followers) have a primary inclination to worship Sri Krishna, as per the teachings of Sri Krishna Chaitanya Mahaprabhu, and His direct disciples, The Legendary Six Goswami's of Braja

 

So who should one accept ?

 

I am of the opinion that Since Sri Krishna is accepted as God by Narada, Asita, Devala , Vyasa, Brama, Shiva and so many recent authorities like Sankara, Mhadva , Ramanuja and others as God, we are safer to also do the same.

 

Now i have no adverse opinion to accepting that Sri Ram is God as the same Narada, Asita, Devala , Vyasa, Brama, Shiva and so many recent authorities like Sankara, Mhadva , Ramanuja and others, have also accepted Sri Ram Chandra as God.

 

I can say with a degree of certainty that the above great souls, have not said anything about Sri Swami Narayan, as God.

 

However, i admit it is not a matter that myself, or anyone else can force, anyone to believe one way or other. Again one has free will and one can and should choose wisely. It is purely a matter of individual's choice !

 

I do want to say this though :-

 

1) Almost all the followers of Sri Swami Narayan, that i have come accoss, have been extremely cultured, well behaved and good hearted.

2) They have very good food.

3) They are very hospitable to sadhus.

4) They have a natural attaction to Hari Kritan.

 

Please forgive my offenses if i inadvertely have hurt someone.

 

As Srila Prabhudada would say "Follow Buddha's teachings , Follow Christ's teachings, but dont just sit there(armchair philosopher) and just talk about it, Do something..."

 

I would maybe modify this to say:-

 

"Follow Sri Swami Narayan's teachings, follow Buddha's teachings , follow Christ's teachings, but dont just sit there(armchair philosopher) and just talk about it, Do something..."

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Yes well this same Shri Krishna IS Swaminarayn. So do you mean to say that Lord Ram is not Shri Krishna? He is different? Does that make the followers of Lord Raam do not worship the same Shri Krishna as Raam?

 

The above obviously means lack of scriptual understanding. You should not mistake Ram with Swami Narayan.

 

Krsna and other incarnations are accepted by the 12 mahajans as mentioned above but where is Swami Narayan.

 

Not mentioned by anyone of any authority.

 

So chant hare krsna and realise you are not gujurati. But Spirit Soul, Aham Brahmastami.

 

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Krsna's devotees are everywhere. Originaly the whole planet was krsna consciousss and krsna appeared in a certain section which is now refered to india but originaly the whole world was call bharat varsa because of King Bharat.

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No one has even mentioned Gujarat. You are the one mentioning it for some personal reason or another. Like i said by providing evidence from the scriptures such as Skand Puran etc, we followers of the Swaminarayan Sampraday regard Shri Swaminarayan as Krishna himself. We in no way whatsoever disregard Shri krishna or even a liitle bit of his teachings.

 

Someone earlier states that Swaminarayan followers regard the Shikshapatri as a higher authority then the Gita. Well first of all the Sikshapatri is a summed up version of many sacred text such as the Vedas, purans along with upanishads etc. they have been summed up for the welfare of mankind in this kaliyug.

 

Another thing is that Lord Shri Swaminarayan stated himself that he regards gita, bhagvat etc as really valuable and words of God. Swaminarayan Bhagwan stated that these scriptures are like the backbone of the Sanatan dharm let alone the whole Swaminarayan faith.

 

If Shri Krishna has any inclination on the way i worship Him then i pray to him to show me the correct way. But i assure others and i myself know that im on no wrong path by worshipping Lord Swaminarayan as Sarvopari and Shri krishna Himself.Just like stated in holy texts such as Visvaksen Samitah, Vasudev Mahatmya (Skand Puran), etc.

 

Jay Shri Swaminarayan.

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Yes Lord Shri Krishna is avtari. But Lord Swaminarayan is as well. He is the same Krishna, so whats all the fuss about?

 

This is the way us followers of Lord Swaminarayan believe.

 

Yousay 12 Mahajans agree taht Lord Ram and Krishna are acccepted and are one. You see this from Scripts like Ramayan and Shrimad Bhagvat. Well if you read the scriptures and leela's of Lord Swamianrayan then these same mahajans are within them too.

 

But know you question Gods works. So how would you understand and believe.

 

I worship Krishna and so do you. But yet there are differences according to you. According to me, as a follower of the Swaminarayan faith...there are none.

Im so disheartened to see this.

 

May Lord Swaminarayan bless you all and uplift you to a stage where ypu find no faults in him. As there are none as he is Krishna. But when you find faults you are committing dosh (sin). Therefore your mind to becomes full of avgun.

 

 

Daya kijiye Thakkur Ji een sab loko par.

 

Jay Swaminarayan.

Jay shri Krishna.

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"Swami" means master. Avatar is to come as Master. "Dah!" Not a name.

 

First, we never said Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu was the only Avatar. In fact, He is not an Avatar at all, but is Svayam Bhagavan Sri Krsna acting out the role of a devotee to teach true followers of the Veda how to behave in Kali Yuga. True followers of the Veda, regardless of their origanal philosophical or religious belief system, will take up the call of Mahaprabhu and engage in the Sankirtan Yajna. hare nama hare nama hare nama eva kevalum/ kalu nastyeva nastyeva nastyeva gatir anyatum (brhat narayda upanisad) Only the Sankirtana Yajna works in Kali Yuga. There is no other way.

 

Any one who does not stress the chanting of Sri Krsna's Nama-avatar [sri Krans's Holy Name] (another Avatar present in this Age which is greatly stressed in the Vedas which other so called scholars seem to have missed in their reading of the Veda) is neither guru nor avatar. In fact, they are barely human! With out a process of self-realization which includes the Nama-avatar, one is not even working on the human platform.

 

There are countless Avatars, in Six categories. Purusa, Guna, Lila, Yuga, Manavatar, & Saktevesh. Which category are you claiming? (Look closely, cause there is no "Guru-avatar," and one needs bona fide Guru to understand the Avatars.) Sri Krsna is clearly indicated as Not an Avatar, but as ParaBrahman, ParaPurusa, MahaParusa, ParamIshvara, Svayam Bhagavan. He is the source of all Avatars srava karana karanam Brahma Samhita 5:1).

 

Only the Buddha Avatar confuses Himself with the Original Supreme, or purposely confuses the conditioned jivatma as to "her" (jiva is prakriti) real position in realtionship to Bhagavan, which is the highest realization of Godhead. Paramatma and Brahman are only partial realizations of Gadhead. When one knows ParaBrahman Svayam Bhagavan Sri Krsna, direcrly or in His Complete Form as Sri Krsna Caitanya Mahaprabhu, one already knows Brahman & Paramatma, and no other Avatars are needed (When one has total access to the Gold mine, one does not need to visit the jeweler!). Any one who does not glorify Sri Krsna exclusively and beyond all others is neither Guru (regardless of birth) nor Respected Vedic Authority. No current Avatar would stress themselve above Their Supreme Source.

 

Sri Madhvacarya proved even a Water Buffalo can quote Veda! We are looking for intelligent people, not pious Buffalo who accept based on "skin disease," Herd Mentality and Local Custom rather than Sastra, Sadhu & Guru. If one is to stupid to accept True Philosophy and True Leader, we do not want this person. They can go wallow in the river with their herd.

 

Word Jugglary and Bogus Sentiment will not save them at the Time of Death!

 

Chant Hare Krsna

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One can equally ask if there is a "Devotee-avatar" in that list. Look closely. hahaha

 

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Another thing is that Lord Shri Swaminarayan stated himself that he regards gita, bhagvat etc as really valuable and words of God. Swaminarayan Bhagwan stated that these scriptures are like the backbone of the Sanatan dharm let alone the whole Swaminarayan faith.

 

If Shri Krishna has any inclination on the way i worship Him then i pray to him to show me the correct way. But i assure others and i myself know that im on no wrong path by worshipping Lord Swaminarayan as Sarvopari and Shri krishna Himself.Just like stated in holy texts such as Visvaksen Samitah, Vasudev Mahatmya (Skand Puran), etc.

------------------------

 

No one is saying anything about how great or not so great Siksha patri is !

 

All we are syaing in study of the Gita and The Bhagavat, is recommended by many great trancendental personalities.

 

And In the GITA KRISHNA IS CLEAR WHAT HE WANTS OF US !!

 

-------------

Chapter 18. Conclusion--The Perfection of Renunciation

TEXT 65

 

man-mana bhava mad-bhakto

mad-yaji mam namaskuru

mam evaisyasi satyam te

pratijane priyo 'si me

 

SYNONYMS

 

mat-manah--thinking of Me; bhava--just become; mat-bhaktah--My devotee; mat-yaji--My worshiper; mam--unto Me; namaskuru--offer your obeisances; mam--unto Me; eva--certainly; esyasi--come; satyam--truly; te--to you; pratijane--I promise; priyah--dear; asi--you are; me--Mine.

TRANSLATION

 

Always think of Me and become My devotee. Worship Me and offer your homage unto Me. Thus you will come to Me without fail. I promise you this because you are My very dear friend.

 

PURPORT

 

The most confidential part of knowledge is that one should become a pure devotee of Krsna and always think of Him and act for Him. One should not become an official meditator. Life should be so molded that one will always have the chance to think of Krsna. One should always act in such a way that all his daily activities are in connection with Krsna. He should arrange his life in such a way that throughout the twenty-four hours he cannot but think of Krsna. And the Lord's promise is that anyone who is in such pure Krsna consciousness will certainly return to the abode of Krsna, where he will be engaged in the association of Krsna face to face. This most confidential part of knowledge is spoken to Arjuna because he is the dear friend of Krsna. Everyone who follows the path of Arjuna can become a dear friend to Krsna and obtain the same perfection as Arjuna.

 

These words stress that one should concentrate his mind

upon Krsna--the very form with two hands carrying a flute, the bluish boy with a beautiful face and peacock feathers in His hair. There are descriptions of Krsna found in the Brahma-samhita and other literatures. One should fix his mind on this original form of Godhead, Krsna. He should not even divert his attention to other forms of the Lord. The Lord has multi-forms as Visnu, Narayana, Rama, Varaha, etc., but a devotee should concentrate his mind on the form that was present before Arjuna. Concentration of the mind on the form of Krsna constitutes the most confidential part of knowledge, and this is disclosed to Arjuna because Arjuna is the most dear friend of Krsna's.

 

 

Chapter 18. Conclusion--The Perfection of Renunciation

TEXT 66

 

sarva-dharman parityajya

mam ekam saranam vraja

aham tvam sarva-papebhyo

moksayisyami ma sucah

 

SYNONYMS

 

sarva-dharman--all varieties of religion; parityajya--abandoning; mam--unto Me; ekam--only; saranam--surrender; vraja--go; aham--I; tvam--you; sarva--all; papebhyah--from sinful reactions; moksayisyami--deliver; ma--not; sucah--worry.

TRANSLATION

 

Abandon all varieties of religion and just surrender unto Me. I shall deliver you from all sinful reaction. Do not fear.

 

PURPORT

 

The Lord has described various kinds of knowledge, processes of religion, knowledge of the Supreme Brahman, knowledge of the Supersoul, knowledge of the different types of orders and statuses of social life, knowledge of the renounced order of life, knowledge of nonattachment, sense and mind control, meditation, etc. He has described in so many ways different types of religion. Now, in summarizing Bhagavad-gita, the Lord says that Arjuna should give up all the processes that have been explained to him; he should simply surrender to Krsna. That surrender will save him from all kinds of sinful reactions, for the Lord personally promises to protect him.

 

In the Eighth Chapter it was said that only one who has become free from all sinful reactions can take to the worship of Lord Krsna. Thus one may think that unless he is free from all sinful reactions he cannot take to the surrendering process. To such doubts it is here said that even if one is not free from all sinful reactions, simply by the process of surrendering to Sri Krsna he is automatically freed. There is no need of strenuous effort to free oneself from sinful reactions. One should unhesitatingly accept Krsna as the supreme savior of all living entities. With faith and love, one should surrender unto Him.

 

According to the devotional process, one should simply accept such religious principles that will lead ultimately to the devotional service of the Lord. One may perform a particular occupational duty according to his position in the social order, but if by executing his duty one does not come to the point of Krsna consciousness, all his activities are in vain. Anything that does not lead to the perfectional stage of Krsna consciousness should be avoided. One should be confident that in all circumstances Krsna will protect him from all difficulties. There is no need of thinking how one should keep the body and soul together. Krsna will see to that. One should always think himself helpless and should consider Krsna the only basis for his progress in life. As soon as one seriously engages himself in devotional service to the Lord in full Krsna consciousness, at once he becomes freed from all contamination of material nature. There are different processes of religion and purificatory processes by cultivation of knowledge, meditation in the mystic yoga system, etc., but one who surrenders unto Krsna does not have to execute so many methods. That simple surrender unto Krsna will save him from unnecessarily wasting time. One can thus make all progress at once and be freed from all sinful reaction.

 

One should be attracted by the beautiful vision of Krsna. His name is Krsna because He is all-attractive. One who becomes attracted by the beautiful, all-powerful, omnipotent vision of Krsna is fortunate. There are different kinds of transcendentalists--some of them are attached to the impersonal Brahman vision, some of them are attracted by the Supersoul feature, etc., but one who is attracted to the personal feature of the Supreme Personality of Godhead, and, above all, one who is attracted by the Supreme Personality of Godhead as Krsna Himself, is the most perfect transcendentalist. In other words, devotional service to Krsna, in full consciousness, is the most confidential part of knowledge, and this is the essence of the whole Bhagavad-gita. Karma-yogis, empiric philosophers, mystics, and devotees are all called transcendentalists, but one who is a pure devotee is the best of all.

 

The particular words used here, ma sucah, "Don't fear, don't hesitate, don't worry," are very significant. One may be perplexed as to how one can give up all kinds of religious forms and simply surrender unto Krsna, but such worry is useless.

 

-------------

 

If you would just care to LISTEN TO SRI KRISHNA and NOT TWIST IT TO SUIT YOUR SENTIMENT !!

 

PLEASE DO NOT CLAIM TO FOLLOW KRISHNA IF YOU DO NOT EVEN READ THE GITA OR EVEN WORSHIP HIM AS HE WANTS US TO WHICH IS VERY CLEAR IN THE ABOVE VERSES !!!

 

YOU WILL JUST END UP CONFUSING THE SIMPLE COMMON MEN WHO WANT TO KNOW AND WORSHIP KRISHNA !!

 

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I don't see you as anyone's superior here. Chill and grow up.

------------------

 

Kishna is always the supreme !

 

If you do not understand that then frankly, you are in a diseased spirtual condition and need to get a lot of mercy from the devotees of the Lord.

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Ok Ok

 

I am not any one's superior , i agree my friend.

I should not shout , that is also true.

 

So i guess i beg a possiblity of forgiveness for shouting from all the forum members !!!

 

take care.

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That was't a follower of Swami Narayana who has been taking exception to your arrogance, guest. I am a servant of Lord Caitanya, and a servant of His servants.

 

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You said:

 

 

First, we never said Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu was the only Avatar. In fact, He is not an Avatar at all, but is Svayam Bhagavan Sri Krsna acting out the role of a devotee to teach true followers of the Veda how to behave in Kali Yuga.

 

Well I say: Listen, Lord Shri Swaminarayan was Krishna himself. Lord Swaminarayan was sarvopari Shri Krishna Himself. He came down as a guru as promised to Lord Brahma. This is clearly quoted within the Vasudev Mahatmya. That He (Krishna) will come down in the form of a guru also acting out the role of a devotee.

:

Maya krushnaen nihataha, sa arjunen raneshu ye

pravatiyishyantyasuraste tvadharm yada kshito

dharmdevatda murto nar narayanatmana

pravrutepi kalou brahman! bhutvaham samago dvija

munishaapaanutam praptam sarshi janakmatmanaha

tattovita gurubhyoham sadharmsthapaynaj

 

-Adhyay 18, shlokas 42,43,44

 

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Swaminarayan within the Swaminarayan sampraday is one name. Its not two names. People spend there whole lives wondering how many mala's to chant also to what name or mantra they should chant with. The truth is that the lord answers to all.

 

Devote yourself to Him and He is yours. Followers in the Swaminarayan faith are not wrong in what they are doing, if done correctly. Nor are the followers of Chaitanya Mahaprabhu who also was Krishna Fimsef.Both were Krishna is what ive concluded up.

 

 

Why should we question? Do what you have come to do instead of bickering and quarreling. Nor Lord Swaminarayan Nor Lord Chaitanya would have wanted this.

 

Call Unto Him and He'l call you to Him. Lord has made it easy for us to attain Him in the Kaliyug. So why do you quarral and make it hard for yourself?

 

 

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There doesnt have to be a "guru- avtaar". Thats you who has made that up. That category in no circumstance comes within the Swaminarayan faith.He just came as a guru just like he Promised Brahma and talked of it to Narad in Skand Puran.

 

You guys are disrespecting the lord Himself without even realising!

 

Lord Swaminarayan re established many rules from the vedas such as sutak, days of menstruation for women, ekadashi etc.

 

Jay Shri Krishna

Jay Swaminarayan

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Exactly. So Lord Swaminarayan is non other than Lord Krishna himself!. Just Like Chaitanya Mahaprabhu.

 

Jay Ho!

Jay Shri Krishna

 

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