injustice - the root of hate

[Kulapavana 0]

Pentagon Blocks Release of Abu Ghraib Images: Here's Why

Source: Editor & Publisher

Published: July 23, 2005 Author: Greg Mitchell

 

NEW YORK So what is shown on the 87 photographs and four videos from Abu Ghraib prison that the Pentagon, in an eleventh hour move, blocked from release this weekend? One clue: Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld told Congress last year, after viewing a large cache of unreleased images: "I mean, I looked at them last night, and they're hard to believe.” They show acts "that can only be described as blatantly sadistic, cruel and inhumane," he added.

 

A Republican Senator suggested the same day they contained scenes of “rape and murder.” No wonder Rumsfeld commented then, "If these are released to the public, obviously it's going to make matters worse."

 

Yesterday, news emerged that lawyers for the Pentagon had refused to cooperate with a federal judge's order to release dozens of unseen photographs and videos from Abu Ghraib prison in Iraq by Saturday. The photos were among thousands turned over by the key “whistleblower” in the scandal, Specialist Joseph M. Darby. Just a few that were released to the press sparked the Abu Ghraib abuse scandal last year, and the video images are said to be even more shocking.

 

The Pentagon lawyers said in a letter sent to the federal court in Manhattan that they would file a sealed brief explaining their reasons for not turning over the material. They had been ordered to do so by a federal judge in response to a FOIA lawsuit filed by the American Civil Liberties Union. The ACLU accused the government Friday of putting another legal roadblock in the way of its bid to allow the public to see the images of the prisoner abuse scandal.

 

One Pentagon lawyer has argued that they should not be released because they would only add to the humiliation of the prisoners. But the ACLU has said the faces of the victims can easily be "redacted."

 

To get a sense of what may be shown in these images, one has to go back to press reports from when the Abu Ghraib abuse scandal was still front page news.

 

This is how CNN reported it on May 8, 2004, in a typical account that day:

 

“U.S. Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld revealed Friday that videos and ‘a lot more pictures’ exist of the abuse of Iraqis held at Abu Ghraib prison.

 

"’If these are released to the public, obviously it's going to make matters worse,’ Rumsfeld told the Senate Armed Services Committee. ‘I mean, I looked at them last night, and they're hard to believe.’

 

“The embattled defense secretary fielded sharp and skeptical questions from lawmakers as he testified about the growing prisoner abuse scandal. A military report about that abuse describes detainees being threatened, sodomized with a chemical light and forced into sexually humiliating poses.

 

“Charges have been brought against seven service members, and investigations into events at the prison continue.

 

“Military investigators have looked into -- or are continuing to investigate -- 35 cases of alleged abuse or deaths of prisoners in detention facilities in the Central Command theater, according to Army Secretary Les Brownlee. Two of those cases were deemed homicides, he said.

 

"’The American public needs to understand we're talking about rape and murder here. We're not just talking about giving people a humiliating experience,’ Republican Sen. Lindsey Graham of South Carolina told reporters after Rumsfeld testified before the Senate Armed Services Committee. ’We're talking about rape and murder -- and some very serious charges.’

 

“A report by Maj. Gen. Antonio Taguba on the abuse at the prison outside Baghdad says videotapes and photographs show naked detainees, and that groups of men were forced to masturbate while being photographed and videotaped. Taguba also found evidence of a ‘male MP guard having sex with a female detainee.’

 

“Rumsfeld told Congress the unrevealed photos and videos contain acts 'that can only be described as blatantly sadistic, cruel and inhuman.’”

 

The military later screened some of the images for lawmakers, who said they showed, among other things, attack dogs snarling at cowed prisoners, Iraqi women forced to expose their breasts, and naked prisoners forced to have sex with each other.

 

In the same period, reporter Seymour Hersh, who helped uncover the scandal, said in a speech before an ACLU convention: “Some of the worse that happened that you don't know about, ok? Videos, there are women there. Some of you may have read they were passing letters, communications out to their men….The women were passing messages saying ‘Please come and kill me, because of what's happened.’

 

“Basically what happened is that those women who were arrested with young boys/children in cases that have been recorded. The boys were sodomized with the cameras rolling. The worst about all of them is the soundtrack of the boys shrieking that your government has. They are in total terror it's going to come out.”

 

 

[Guest guest]

THERE IS A STRANGE PAIRING of positions on the left.

 

The first is that Saddam Hussein and al Qaeda were not connected. The work of Stephen F. Hayes and Thomas Joscelyn in THE WEEKLY STANDARD, which is supported by other serious investigative reporters such as Claudia Rosett has already established beyond any reasonable doubt that there was a web of connections, but the combination of the left's indifference to inconvenient facts and the international version of the soft bigotry of low expectations--an Arab dictator couldn't have had a sophisticated intelligence service capable of hiding such matters--make it an article of faith among Bush haters that there was no connection.

 

Exactly the opposite approach to facts and evidence is emerging on the left's claim that Iraq is a breeding ground for terrorists. "Breeding ground" means something quite different from "killing ground." The term conveys the belief that had the United States and its allies not invaded Iraq, there would be fewer jihadists in the world today--that the transition of Iraq from brutal dictatorship to struggling democracy has somehow unleashed a terrorist-breeding virus.

 

The fact that foreign fighters are streaming across Syria into Iraq in the hopes of killing America is not evidence supporting the "breeding ground" theory. "Opportunity" to act is not the same thing as "motive" for acting. There is zero evidence for the proposition that Iraq is motive rather than opportunity, but the "motive" theory is nevertheless put forward again and again. As recently as Wednesday the Washington Post

 

account of the aftermath of the London bombings included the incredible--and unsubstantiated in the article--claim that the "the profile of the suspects suggested by investigators fit long-standing warnings by security experts that the greatest potential threat to Britain could come from second-generation Muslims, born here but alienated from British society and perhaps from their own families, and inflamed by Britain's participation in the Iraq war."[emphasis added]

 

In an interview with the London Times, Prime Minister Tony Blair disputed the idea "that the London terrorist attacks were a direct result of British involvement in the Iraq war. He said Russia had suffered terrorism with the Beslan school massacre, despite its opposition to the war, and that terrorists were planning further attacks on Spain even after the pro-war government was voted out. "September 11 happened before Iraq, before Afghanistan, before any of these issues and that was the worst terrorist atrocity of all," he said.

 

While it is theoretically possible that some jihadists were forged as a result of the invasion of Iraq, no specific instance of such a terrorist has yet been produced. Reports in the aftermath of the London bombings indicated that the British intelligence service estimates more than 3,000 residents of Great Britain had trained in the Afghanistan terrorist camps prior to the invasion of Afghanistan--which suggests that the probability is very high that most of the jihadists in England date their hatred of the West to some point prior to the invasion of Iraq. And though two of the London bombers appear to have traveled to Pakistan for religious instruction post-March 2003, there is not the slightest bit of evidence that it was Iraq which "turned" the cricket-loving young men into killers. In fact, it is transparently absurd for anyone to claim such a thing.

 

 

So why is the claim being made, and not just post-London, but in all of the contexts where the "breeding ground" rhetoric surfaces?

 

Of course it's a convenient stick with which to beat the Bush administration. But it has a far more powerful lure than that.

 

As the bloody toll of the Islamist movement grows and its record of horrors lengthens from Bali to Beslan to Madrid to London, the incredible cost that can only be attributed to the Afghanistan metastasis that went unchecked from the time of bin Laden's return there in 1996 until the American-led invasion of 2001 becomes ever more clear. That was the true "breeding ground" of the world's menace, not the Sunni triangle, where jihadists are continually under pressure and increasingly desperate. The long years ahead in the global war on terrorism will be spent trying to undo the damage done by allowing the Islamist radicals a safe haven from which to export their ideology and to train and deploy their converts.

 

The realization of the price of inaction through the '90s has a huge political cost attached to it, one that the Democrats will bear if a full accounting is ever compiled. Thus the "breeding ground" rhetoric--empty and absurd as it is--is a convenient and even necessary bit of smoke. There's no fire underneath that smoke. Just a desperate hope that noise will drown out voices pointing to the real history of the rise of the Islamist threat.

 

In an exchange with Ron Reagan on MSNBC this week,

 

Christopher Hitchens sharply rebuked the "motive" school of terrorist psychologists: "I thought I heard you making just before we came on the air, of attributing rationality or a motive to this, and to say that it's about anything but itself, you make a great mistake, and you end up where you ended up, saying that the cause of terrorism is fighting against it, the root cause, I mean." [emphasis added]

 

Hitchens's point, which must be made again and again, is Blair's point: The killers are killers because they want to kill, not because the coalition invaded Iraq, or Afghanistan, or because there are bases in Saudi Arabia, or because Israel will not retreat to the 1967 borders.

 

Until and unless the left gets this point, and abandons the idea that "breeding" of terrorists is something the West triggers, they cannot be trusted with the conduct of the war.

 

[Hugh Hewitt is the host of a nationally syndicated radio show, and author most recently of Blog: Understanding the Information Reformation That is Changing Your World. His daily blog can be found at HughHewitt.com.

[Guest guest]

is hot war. The only dif. is Amer.'s opponent changed. Generally this world is as it was.

[gHari 0]

Seems some good old boys thought we meant the movie.

 

[gHari 0]

 

Osama was very clear about when and why he got the idea to fly into the twin towers. That is, when got the idea for someone else to fly into the twin towers.

 

[Guest guest]

What do you consider about the cause of islamic terr.ism & the future of world situation?

[gHari 0]

The cause (for centuries): The Koran. The Future (in a few generations): Islam will die.

 

[gHari 0]

http://ww1.mid-day.com/news/nation/2005/august/115194.htm

[krsna 3]

 

 

 

By Syed Kamran Mirza

 

 

“Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction.” (Blaise Pascal, mathematician, 1670)

 

“It would be naïve to ignore in Islam a deep thread of intolerance toward unbelievers.”—Andrew Sullivan

 

 

 

 

Islamic terrorism is the divine duty of pure Muslims for which they feel proud instead of feeling remorse. Pure Muslims do not call it terrorism they only call it Islamic Jihad against the infidel West. Killing non-Muslims are sacred duty of every devout Muslim for which Allah repeatedly commanded (in Qur’an) and declared unlimited reward in the after life. Muslims those who read Qur’an and understand it well always believe in the Islamic ‘global agenda’ that Islam has a sacred and mandatory God given duty to spread Islamic message (Din-e-Islam) to all the inhabitants of the world.

 

Wars in Iraq or Afghanistan have nothing to do with Islamic terrorism. In American soil 9/11 attacks did happen before Iraq or Afghanistan wars. Please don’t forget that.

 

Islam is the only religion which divides the whole world into two spheres: Land of Warfare “Darul harb” (non-Islamic nations) and “Darul Islam” (Land of Peace), and encourages the Land of "Peace" to fight against the Land of Warfare until it is completely "subdued" and peace is established in the entire world. Islam is the only religion that largely forbids the free practice of other religions in its midst.

 

Saudi Arabia , the cradle of Islam never allows religion other than Islam to practice in their land. Their ulterior motive is to convert and bring entire mankind under the fold of Islam, the “Only true religion of Allah.”

 

To this end—two main groups are working very hard. These two groups are:

 

(a) Militant/radical Mullahs (whom we know as the terrorists),

 

(b) Educated/elite Western residing true believing Muslims (Muslims belonging to the ummatic groups in the West such as: AMC, CAIR, ICNA, ISNA, NABIC etc).

 

Here we can exclude gullible God fearing innocent Muslims (group-C), who do not read Qur’an and Sunnah). But because those gullible majority Muslims also believe in the same religion Islam and do not object to pray in congregations behind those militant mullahs—Islamic terrorists get tons of support from all Muslims.

 

 

Causes of Terrorism:

 

Purely and solely—the real motivation behind the terrorism (Islamic Jihad) is the teachings of Qur’an and Sunnah. Western politicians erroneously and perhaps ignorantly call it “evil or distorted ideology.” This is absolutely wrong statement by the politically correct western politicians. That ideology is nothing but the ideology of pure Islam, which are the holy teachings of the Qur’an.

 

Therefore, Qur’an and Sunnah (prophetic instructions) are the true foundations of Islamic terrorism. Palestinian problems, wars of Iraq and Afghanistan etc. are only a plea to wage Islamic Jihad. Poverty or frustrations are not the cause of terrorism, because poverty and frustrations also exists amongst millions of poor people from other religions. Will any poor Hindu or a Buddhist bother to commit suicide to kill innocent Westerners?

 

We know conversion to other religion is a common phenomenon throughout the world. Many people convert to Islam or Christianity. But only Muslim converts turn into terrorists or Taliban. The Western born terrorists like John Walker Lindh, Zachariah Moussawi, Jose Padilla or James Uzzama etc. were converts and happened to be very pure and devout Muslims. If these guys were converted to Hinduism or Buddhism, they would never be the terrorists.

 

Poisonous tonic will cause poisonous effect whoever drinks it. Should we not analyze the tonic to determine the harmful ingredients, which causes the poisonous effects? Or should we start blaming those drinkers (instead of the tonic) for the ill effect of the tonic?

 

Likewise, whoever reads Qur’an and try to follow with its literal (verbatim) meanings, immediately becomes a bad human being (terrorist) for the society and for the nations. Wherever and whenever Islamic Shariaat (Laws of Qur’an and Sunnah) is being imposed, human misery ensues immediately. Is it not the time to analyze to determine exactly what causes this misery? Or, should we keep on blaming those hapless people who only try to follow the Qur’an and Sunnah with its literal instruction? Time has arrived to identify the real enemy of the Western civilization.

 

Western intelligence must not overlook ‘Mosques-Islamic centers-Madrashas’ connections to all Islamic terrorists in 100% time of their terrorists operation and success. If those ‘Mosques-Islamic centers-Madrashas’ are the so-called radicalized Islam then what is the real Islam? It’s true that all Muslims are not terrorists, but all terrorists are pure Muslims as per the Qur’an.

 

Quite obviously, the cause of Islamic fanaticism and zealotry is rooted in the Qur’an and Sunnah (Hadiths). Terrorists like Osama bin Laden and others are the victims of Qur’anic scriptural teachings. Here are some Qur’anic teachings (out of hundreds), which those devout Muslims swallow every day (five times) so passionately only to become brainwashed in the Mosques and Islamic centers for committing suicide bombings in the midst of innocent gatherings.

 

Quran-5:51- “O ye who believe! Take not the Jews and the Christians for your friends and protectors. They are but friends and protectors to each other…..”

 

Quran-4:78: “Where ye are, death will find you, even if ye are in Towers, built up strong and tall” (Perhaps Twin towers was meant here?)

 

Quran-3:85, “If anyone desires a religion other than Islam (submission to Allah), never will it be accepted of him; and in the Hereafter He will be in the ranks of those who have lost (All spiritual good).”

 

Quran-9:29, Fight those who believe neither in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book (Christians and Jews), until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued.

 

Lives of any human are precious and human beings definitely love their own life more than anything in the world. Nobody is ready to die or destroy his own life even for millions of dollars (except perhaps by Prophet Abraham). But a simple minded (otherwise a good man) but fanatically blind believer of religion Islam can eagerly give his life with a smile on his face. Why? Because he simply learned that if he dies for Islam, or killed others (infidels) for Islam—he will be given a sure suite in heavens of Allah, where he will enjoy plenty of hurries for unlimited sex, delicious foods forever and ever with no interruption, what so ever. This may sound silly to me or to any intelligent human being. But, this is the one and only truth to a blind-faith believer (Islamic Zombie) of the so-called holy book Qur’an, indeed! The Qur’an is the center of Jihadi inspiration.

 

It’s a greatest lie to say that Qur’an prohibits suicide! That is the suicide (Qur’an referring) to kill one-self only for no good reason or out of frustrations. But to die (to kill the kaffirs) for the cause of Islam is mandatory good deeds for the believers, which has been directed more than 100 times in the Holy Quran with plenty of rewards.

 

In Amsterdam, Netherlands—Mohammed Bouyeri, the killer of filmmaker Theo Van Gogh confessed his guilt and showed no remorse for his dastardly act of Islamic slaughter. During court trial he made following remarks:

 

“I don’t feel your pain”, he told the victim’s mother. “Because I was driven by my religious conviction.”

 

He also said,

 

“If I were released and would have the chance to do it again…I would do exactly the same thing.”

 

At one point he said to the victim’s mother,

 

“I have to admit I don’t have sympathy for you. I can’t feel for you because I think you are a non-believer.”

 

How could we stop Islamic Terrorism?

 

Yes, Islamic terrorism could be stopped if the west be united and take the right measures. West must not weigh Islamic terrorism lightly. This is a more dangerous and deadlier phenomenon than communism. It took fifty years to defeat communism. But it may take only twenty years if the West takes the right course. But the menace may continue to grow if the West follows the fruitless policy of appeasing the Muslims, disseminating patronizing statements like:

 

“Poisonous or perverted interpretation of peaceful Islam”.

 

Terrorists are not misinterpreting Islam; rather they are interpreting Islam very correctly. Islam is like cancer and Qur’an is the carcinogen, which causes cancer. We must know our enemy. We must fight the cause and not the symptoms. Unless scientists can subdue the HIV virus, the cause of AIDS, scientists can never control AIDS. To defeat Islamic terrorism West must learn about the true cause of Islamic terrorism!

 

Spending billions of dollars in strong security or democratization tactics will not help. Sweet appeasing talks also will do no good. Almost 80% of world Muslims does support Osama’s ideology in their hearts. They only talk false sympathy in front of Westerners to please Western govt. But when inside their house, they sympathize with those suicide bombers very much. In every suicide bombings when Western cities are in chaos, peoples die, and Western economy is in shambles—most Muslims all over the world gloat in their hearts. No doubt about it.

 

The West must remember that as of now—no Islamic government, or any famous Islamic Imams or Mullahs have ever issued fatwa condemning Osama’s barrage of suicide bombings. Just for writing a controversial novel Salman Rushdie was sentenced to death. As of now no Muslim country sentenced Osama to death. We must ask ourselves why?

 

Best way to solve Islamic terrorism:

 

Supreme enemy Islamic Arab imperialistic ideology must be fought in three fronts:

 

A. Enemy must be defeated with iron fist by waging all out war against Islamic terrorists all over the world. The West (Europe and America ) must be united and declare war against Islamists. President Bush must issue personal letters to all government heads of Muslim world to cooperate, or face economic embargo.

 

The West must ask all Muslim Governments to cooperate honestly and actively by issuing fatwa’s against terrorists. It’s not enough to say,

 

“We despise terrorism”,

 

but must act to stop this madness by strongly disassociating with the Islamists, isolating them, arresting them, and imprisoning them without any mercy.

 

All governments of the Muslim world must impose a strict ban on all Madrashas (religious schools-breeding ground of terrorists) and terrorist organization formed by Islamic mullahs.

 

 

 

B. All Muslims living in the Muslim nations must condemn terrorists and they must stop any association with those Mullahs and Islamic Imams who condone Islamic terrorism. They must not pray behind those Imams/mullahs who incite Islamic hatreds, and they must isolate them socially and politically. All Western living gullible Muslims must cooperate with the Western intelligence (like FBI, CIA) and provide them all sorts of information about militant Muslim’s activity. Or face the backlash of host country.

 

C. The West must also fight the Islam ideologically. That is the West must form a multi-national committee to investigate, scrutinize, and extract the poisonous teachings of Qur’an, which do transform a simple young human into a monster. Those scholars must find out what those Muslim mullahs/Imams teach young Muslim students in the Madrashas and other religious schools all over the world. Their findings must be submitted to the governments and published in the newspapers. Open criticisms and debates of Qur’an and Islam must be permitted by all nations.

 

I am positive, within 10/20 years Islamic suicide bomber’s madness will be evaporated for good. If we fail to take positive actions narrated above—our civilization will perish. Killing some terrorists, arresting and killing Osama bin Laden or spending billions of dollars to establish democracy in the Middle East will solve nothing. Because, to solve the terrorist problem, we must destroy the ultimate machine (Islam), which do create terrorists.

 

[Guest guest]

The cause (for centuries): The Koran. The Future (in a few generations): Islam will die.

------------

But for an Iskcon elder they are too simple. I don't believe what you said.

[gHari 0]

The cause over the centuries has likely been greed, falsely justified by the Koran; like the Mongolian hordes with a book in hand.

 

What will happen: hopefully innocent women and children will no longer die in the desert from foreign bombs.

 

Islam has been dealt a great blow. Her credibility throughout the world has been trashed. People no longer mind being called infidels. But she may survive in the desert. I feel certain that the days of spreading the religion by the sword are gone forever. The world will not sit by and watch. Anymore.

 

I do not speak for ISKCON or even vaisnavas. I feel the pulse and diagnose the disease. I hope I am wrong. I hope the clerics can teach that parts of the book were penned in time and circumstance, and were not meant as a blueprint for all time.

 

We are all painfully aware that America is not filled with heavenly angels. Perhaps America will discover that too. But it will be a long time before we will stop wondering when the Muslim in the next cubicle is going to go postal on us.

 

[gHari 0]

I don't understand the 'priyavads' word. What do you believe? Are you the ISKCON elder? I guess not, since they wouldn't play such games. I am certainly no elder - perhaps older but not elder by any stretch of the imagination. And most certainly no AsItIs Guru. What game are we playing here? Be careful - I always win.

 

[Guest guest]

The cause over the centuries has likely been greed, falsely justified by the Koran; like the Mongolian hordes with a book in hand.

------------

You needn't say that in front of me bcos you, as a guru, know clearer than me about the inside of hinduism & its sects as well as their operation. Islam is simply a parallel religion.

 

I do not speak for ISKCON or even vaisnavas. I feel the pulse and diagnose the disease. I hope I am wrong. I hope the clerics can teach that parts of the book were penned in time and circumstance, and were not meant as a blueprint for all time.

------------

Most of Iskcon's p.s come from the attach. to this org.. I wish you to observe situation from higher position. I needn't any guider but cooperator for I'm just a guru.

 

We are all painfully aware that America is not filled with heavenly angels. Perhaps America will discover that too.

------------

They disregard a common sense: an old way leads to an old goal. So even a superpower can't resist their fate. In fact, 9 11 itself is a part of this fate & the result of cold war. The slaves of cold war haven't wise enough to choose their fate, which is the future.

 

It's no p. for Krsna to be a politician, but she'll bring p.s if she become a polit. leader.

[gHari 0]

What is your goal?

[gHari 0]

The Al Qaeda top Zowi-psycho is about to bury Islam:<blockquote>"Our message is clear -- what you saw in New York and Washington and what you are seeing in Afghanistan and Iraq, all these are nothing compared to what you wil see next."</blockquote>

What a moron!!

 

http://www.cnn.com/2005/WORLD/meast/08/04/zawahiri.london/index.html

 

Do these fools really think Iraq would be better off if the army left now? The thugs would fight forever to gain power. Life would be hell for the Iraqi people. Don't they realize that the troops would rather leave, that their homelands want them back as soon as is conscientiously possible.

 

I'll be damned if I can figure out why they keep killing Iraqis in Iraq. I hope Islam can see their agenda and callous stupidity for what it is: the continuation of a warlord bully state where such thugs thrive at the expense of others. Saddam's hundreds of thousands of Iraqi murders are starting to pale compared to these morons. At least Hussein did it out of greed. These idiots kill indiscriminately simply for hate. I curse them all. So does Allah.

 

May their bombs blow up in their faces as they make them. May Islam take charge and behead them all for their crimes against their brothers and Islam, now.

 

They have no idea what the western psychos will do if something more catastrophic than 9/11 happens. The desert has no monopoly on psychosis. They've never heard of the KKK, Zed or gangsta. But they will. The angelic self-image of the West is only skin deep. God help Islam.

[gHari 0]

If a serious strike takes place against America, there will be one warning - one very loud warning.

 

They will notify as best as possible several days in advance all the people in the most remote area of Iraq or Afganistan that they must vacate to a city or die. Then a nuclear weapon will arrive in the deserted area to demonstrate to Islam exactly what will happen to the whole desert if another such aggression is executed against the U.S.

 

This is drastic, but it will happen. No one is going to play games with these people. Most westerners will support it. One way to deal with people who play games is to play their game and win. The people at Hiroshima did not receive a warning; I think we have learned from that.

 

The terrorists are counting on the world not being as sinister as they are. That is a very bad miscalculation. They will end up killing 10,000 Muslims for every infidel they slay. All in the name of Allah, the most merciful.

 

[theist 1]

These freaks have hot sand for brains. Iraq was a nice try but it has failed. Democracy cannot be imposed. The animus between Sunni and Shia runs far to deep and as soon as coalition forces manage to get out of the place the world will see a civil war. Terrorists will be Sunni on one side against the govt. Shia and Iran will play a major role with some help from Hezbullah from Lebanon who are also Shia.

 

I am for giving the North to the Kurds while it is still possible and then building a major air base there. Then let these friggin' fools kill each other off as we mop up any that take their 14th century barbarism outside their own killing zone.

 

Not even close to my first choice or what I had hoped would be the outcome but one must be a realist.

 

I also share gHari's observation that this could go Nuclear real easy. Enough is enough and it is already more than enough.

[gHari 0]

Indeed. My last view of the future saw all Muslims from all over the world being bussed back to the desert. No one and nothing would be allowed in or out of the desert. No medicine, science, technology - nada. They would be left to rape and murder and plunder each other in their wonderful kingdom of peace. All this with the ultimatum that one terrorist attack would mean the total destruction of the desert.

 

They don't want us there, and day by day the world is rejecting their association more and more. The bus will be loading soon if the strikes escalate. I see a blockbuster movie here (you think the Jews hated The Passion! - this one would curdle all the way to Mecca). But then this isn't how I want it to play out either.

 

Somehow, a voice of reason has to reach Al Qaeda: they are not pleasing Allah, they are simply chasing the mirage of an oasis in the sun. They need to drink real water, beyond the words and pretense of this world. As do we all.

 

 

[Guest guest]

What is your goal?

-----------

Look at your title. I haven't seen any article discussing similar topics to enough depth for they pay much attention to what's go on on the surface. Why don't I talk about the terrorists? This name itself implies they are weak. That's to say, they can't win. They do know this fact & they attack for threating the opponents only. No winner in the toy of fate & the weak.

 

What is your goal then? I need a return.

[gHari 0]

Nectarean excerpt from the Sri Caitanya Bhagavata (Madhya Khanda 10):<blockquote>Lord Caitanya then turned His benign glance towards Haridasa and called out, "Look at Me, Haridasa. Your body at birth was superior to Mine, and your class and caste were more elevated than Mine. That sinful Muslim tormentor has inflicted great pain on you. However, knowing your compassionate nature, I hesitate in My heart to punish him, for it would disturb you.

 

"Listen, Haridasa. When you were lashed with the whip in many different market places, I took up My Sudarsan disc and descended to the earth from Vaikuntha, intending to sever the tormentors' heads.

 

"While your tormentors were trying to beat you to death, all along you were thinking of their well being. You were unconcerned about your own pains; you had only compassion for them. Because of your merciful heart I could not use force; My Sudarsan disc weapon was rendered impotent.

 

"I could not strike those men because you were determined to forgive them. So, unable to see your misery, I protected you from their lashes by placing My back on your back.

 

"I accepted all those lashes meant for you on My back. See the marks on My back; I am not lying. Whatever other secondary reasons there were for My descent, I hastened My advent to this world, unable to bear your sufferings. My beloved 'Nada', Advaita Acarya, fully recognized who you are. I am totally bound by his loving devotion."

 

Our beloved Lord Caitanya is very proficient in expanding the glories of His devotees. He will say or do anything to glorify and protect His devotees. He will even swallow fire for his devotees, and willingly become His devotee's slave.

</blockquote>

 

[theist 1]

"While your tormentors were trying to beat you to death, all along you were thinking of their well being. You were unconcerned about your own pains; you had only compassion for them. Because of your merciful heart I could not use force; My Sudarsan disc weapon was rendered impotent."

 

"Father forgive them they know not what they do."