how do you hear this verse?

[theist 1]

SB 12.13.2: When the Supreme Personality of Godhead appeared as Lord Kurma, a tortoise, His back was scratched by the sharp-edged stones lying on massive, whirling Mount Mandara, and this scratching made the Lord sleepy. May you all be protected by the winds caused by the Lord's breathing in this sleepy condition. Ever since that time, even up to the present day, the ocean tides have imitated the Lord's inhalation and exhalation by piously coming in and going out.

 

Does this mean that before this pastime there was no shifting of the tides in the oceans?

 

 

[Guest guest]

sounds like a metaphor to me - i'm sure there was a tide before Kurmavatara.

 

a metaphor to what? i don't know - i'm not an expert - perhaps someone more well versed can answer.

 

G.

[Guest guest]

actually having thought about it - what a strange verse! Why would scrating the back of a tortoise make it sleepy? Surely scatching bits off the body causes distress rather than sleepiness?

 

And what a strange way to describe the tide as a metaphor?

 

Also strange: "May you all be protected by the winds caused by the Lord's breathing in this sleepy condition" --- why would the notion of protectiveness come from this?

 

If you read it anew the whole verse actually makes no physical sense. There is obvoiusly something much deeper that needs to be read.

 

G.

[gHari 0]

Demons Get Opportunity to Serve Krsna

The Itch He Just Can't Scratch

 

Srimad-Bhagavatam 8.5.11-12:

 

King Pariksit inquired: O great brahmana, Sukadeva Gosvami, why and how did Lord Visnu churn the ocean of milk? For what reason did He stay in the water as a tortoise and hold up Mandara Mountain? How did the demigods obtain the nectar, and what other things were produced from the churning of the ocean? Kindly describe all these wonderful activities of the Lord.

 

<center><img src=http://canoeparts.ca/KINGDOM/Dhanvantari.jpg></center>

[gHari 0]

Perhaps only the Ocean of Milk's tides still glorify the pastime; ocean tides as opposed to oceans' tides. The word-for-word translation seems to indicate that 'ocean' is singular.

 

[Kulapavana 0]

actually this is a very sweet verse. scratching is actually very pleasing to many animals (and people too), just try it with your cat or a dog - they close their eyes and seem to be in heaven.

 

as to the tides: they were there before this pastime too, but since then, they took on a different context and aquired an inner meaning. watching the tides and remembering Lord Kurma's slow breathing helps us be spiritually aware - that applies to the deity of the ocean as well.

 

as to the winds giving protection: I see it as both methaphor (i.e.: warm breath of a parent is comforting to the child) and relation to winds protecting one from oppressive heat.

[gHari 0]

Excerpt from a 1975 lecture:<blockquote>This MahA-ViSNu, who is creating innumerable universes by breathing... Just like sometimes we breathe and there are some germs, small, we cannot see; in the same way, the universes in a small minute form, they are coming out of the breathing of MahA-ViSNu. That is KAraNa-toya-zAyI, kAraNa-udaka, Causal Ocean. That is beginning of creation. Then all the universes, they gradually develop into gigantic form. In the originally, it is coming out. We cannot understand. Sometimes we become surprised that "How such innumerable universes are being created by a person?" So, the universe is not so big in the beginning. Just like our, this body is not so big in the beginning of our body within the womb of our mother. It is not so big. It is very small, minute, and then it becomes just like a pea, and gradually the body develops. The same process is applicable to the universes. In the beginning, they are coming out of the breathing of KAraNa-toya-zAyI ViSNu, and then gradually they are developed bRhannatvAt, bRhatvAt. It increases gradually. That KAraNa-toya-zAyI ViSNu is also SaGkarSaNa. And then GarbhodakazAyI. The universes are created. Then, when they develop, then same ViSNu, MahA-ViSNu, enters into each universe, and He creates an ocean. That is called Garbhoda Ocean. And He lies down there on SeSa-NAga, And then, from the navel, the lotus flower sprouts, and then Lord BrahmA is created. Then, after many years tapasya, tapo, he understands how to create. In this way the whole creation of universes takes place. GarbhodakazAyI. And after creation of this universe, then same ViSNu, GarbhodakazAyI, within this universe He creates His own VaikuNTha where there is an ocean of milk. There are different kinds of oceans, we learn from zAstra. We have got experience of the salted ocean, but there are many other oceans, just like milk ocean and ghee ocean, oil ocean and yogurt ocean. There are. We get this information from the zAstra.

 

So the MahA-ViSNu, first of all He enters in each universe as GarbhodakazAyI. Then, within the universe, He creates His VaikuNTha and lies down there--KSIrodakazAyI. This KSIrodakazAyI ViSNu is approached by the demigods when there is need of maintenance or for subsiding the disturbance by the demons. Then BrahmA, Lord Siva and others, they go on the beach of this milk ocean and submit their appeal. Then the answer is given to BrahmA, and he informs to other demigods. This is the process. You'll find this later on. So payobdhi-zAyI and zeSaz ca, Sesa, that is also incarnation of ViSNu. He is sustaining the body of ViSNu in different oceans, and He is serving the Lord ViSNu in so many ways. SayyA, Asana, sitting place, bed, and upavIta, and clothes, garments--so many ways He is serving. Now, all these different incarnation of ViSNu is summarized here by KavirAja GosvAmI that "All of them are partial expansion of NityAnanda," to understand what is NityAnanda Prabhu. The prakAza-vigraha... KRSNa first. Then His prakAza-vigraha, manifested form, a little difference in bodily feature, but the same powerful, that is BalarAma. And then, from BalarAma, SaGkarSaNa, Pradyumna, Aniruddha, in this way, quadruple expansion... Then NArAyaNa, then another quadruple expansion, then from that quadruple, second manifestation of SaGkarSaNa, all these different ViSNus, KAraNa-toyAzAyI, GarbhodakazayI, KSIrodhi-zAyI--in this way, expanding. DIpArcir eva hi dazAntaram abhyupetya [bs. 5.46]. Just like you take one candle, then you lit up another candle, another candle, another candle. All these candles are equally powerful, but still, the calculation is, KRSNa is the first candle, BalarAma is the second candle. In this way, viSNutayA vibhAti--the expansion of ViSNu, innumerable.

 

Advaita acyuta anAdi ananta-rUpam. This KSIrodakazAyI ViSNu is the person who is situated in everyone's, every living being's, heart. IzvaraH sarva-bhUtAnAM hRd-deze 'rjuna tiSThati [bg. 18.61]. That Izvara, antaryAmI, who is existing in everyone's heart, that is KSIrodakazAyI ViSNu. Not only within the heart of all living entities, but He is within the atom also. ANDAntara-stha-paramANu-cayA... ParamANu. ParamANu means atom. In this way ViSNu expansion are there. It is inconceivable for us, but by the grace of KRSNa, we can partially understand from the description of the zAstras. Otherwise we cannot imagine how these things can happen, but it happens. We have to accept. SAstra-cakSuSaH. We have to see through the pages of zAstra. Otherwise it is not possible. So if we want to know ViSNu-tattva, if we want to know KRSNa, His exalted position, then here are the description of the zAstra, and if we take them as it is, without malinterpretation, without showing any extraordinary intelligence by us... It is not possible. We have to accept. Therefore the injunction is that you accept the statement of the zAstras. That is... Bhagavad-gItA also said, yaH zAstra-vidhim utsRjya vartate-kAma-kArataH: "If you do not follow the description of the zAstra and if you manufacture something," then na siddhiM sa avApnoti, "then you'll never get perfection." We have to follow the zAstra; otherwise there is no other alternative to understand the exalted position of KRSNa, how He expands in different forms, as ViSNu, as NArAyaNa. Sometimes they argue that KRSNa is incarnation of ViSNu. That is also truth. You'll find in Caitanya... Truth in this way, that when any incarnation comes, He comes through the KSIrobdhi-zAyI ViSNu. But KSIrobdhi-zAyI is partial expansion of KRSNa. The subject matter is very intricate, but if we follow the zAstra and accept it, then some clear conception we can have.</blockquote>

[krsna 3]

 

 

The avatara of Dhanvantari appeared billions of years ago. Although an avatara is unborn, He takes His divine birth among the living beings to display His divine pastimes.

 

The First Appearrance of Dhanvantari

 

In this epoch (kalpa), He first appeared during the great churning of the cosmic milk ocean to deliver amrta (nectar) for the nourishment of the demigods. The churning of the milk ocean is one of the most famous episodes in Puranic history and is celebrated in major way every twelve years in the festival known as Kumbha Mela. The story is related in the Srimad Bhagavatam, a major work that describes the avataras in great detail. Here is what happened:

 

The great leader of the demigods Indra was riding on his elephant, when he came across Durvasa Muni. Seeing the great demigod, Durvasa offered him a special garland (mala). Indra accepted this garland and put it on the trunk of the elephant. The elephant threw the garland onto the floor, thus enraging Durvasa Muni. In a fit of anger, the sage explained that the garland was the dwelling of Sri (fortune) and was therefore to be treated as prasada. (1) Therefore cursed Indra and all the demigods to be bereft of all strength, energy, and fortune (Sri).

 

In the ensuing battles, the demigods were defeated in battle and the demons headed by Bali gained control of the universe. The demigods sought out the help of Lord Vishnu, who instructed them in the art of diplomacy. The demigods then entered into an alliance with the demons to jointly churn the ocean for the nectar of immortality and to share it among them. Of course, the demigods were told by Vishnu that He would arrange for them alone to obtain the nectar, which would empower them to defeat the demons.

 

All kinds of herbs were cast into the milk ocean and using Mandara mountain as the churning rod and Vasuki as the cord, they proceeded to churn the ocean. This churning was so arduous that Lord Vishnu Himself interceded in so many ways to aid the demigods: He was present as Lord Ajita pulling on the side of the gods, as Lord Kurma who supported the great Mandara mountain which was in danger of sinking, and Lord Vishnu Himself sat atop the Mountain infusing the demigods and the serpent Vasuki with energy. Many great beings and objects were produced from the ocean and were accepted by various demigods as offerings. Laksmi-devi, the goddess of fortune, appeared from the ocean and Vishnu and Her were reunited as husband and wife after having been separated for many ages.

 

Then as they continued churning, a very wonderful male person appeared. The Bhagavatam tells us, "He was strongly built; His arms were very long, stout and strong; His eyes were reddish, and His complexion was black. He was very young, He was garlanded with flowers, and His entire body was fully decorated with various ornaments." (2)

 

Lord Dhanvantari was "dressed in yellow garments and wore brightly polished earrings made of pearl. The tips of His hair were anointed with oil and His chest was very broad. His body had all good features, and He was stout and strong as a lion. In His hand, He carried a jug of nectar."

 

The demons stole the jug of nectar and Lord Vishnu appeared as Mohini, a beautiful woman, who fascinated the demons and recovered the nectar from them. The demigods took the nectar and drank it and were invigorated with energy. Thereafter, the demigods fought the demons and were victorious. They greatly rejoiced and worshipped Lord Vishnu and Lakshmi, the goddess of fortune, and resumed their position in the heavens.

 

Dhanvantari's Second Appearance (3)

 

The second appearance occurred at the beginning of the reign of the current Manu in the second Dvapara-yuga, two billion years ago. Lord Vishnu foretold at the time of the churning that Dhanvantari would appear again in the human society and be offered sacrifices and worshipped by human beings. He would also teach them the science of Ayurveda. Dhanvantari at that time was residing in the heavens and Lord Indra seeing the misery of human beings afflicted by disease on earth, requested the Lord to teach Ayurveda to the human race.

 

At the same time, the King Dirghatamas of Kasi was performing penance, desiring a son. The king desired to propitiate Lord Dhanvantari for the sake of a son. Thereupon, Dhanvantari appeared to him and urged the king to choose a boon as he pleased. The king said, "O Lord, if You are pleased with me, be my son, bestower of my goal." The Lord replied, "So be it," and He vanished.

 

Lord Dhanvantari was then born in the royal household of Kasi. He developed ascetic tendencies even as a young boy and performed severe austerities. Lord Brahmawith great difficulty persuaded Him to accept lordship over the city of Kasi and since then He bacame known as Kasi-raja. As a king He prepared the samhitas on Ayurveda in eight divisions for the benefit of humanity.

 

Lord Dhanvantari's teachings are recorded in the Agni Purana 279-289 as well as through the teachings of His disciple Susrutha.

 

The Bhagavatam states "smrta-matrarti-nasanah" One who remembers the name of Dhanvantari can be released from all disease.

 

A final note:

 

Those who are new to Vaishnava and Puranic thought may wonder at the purpose of the Lord's array of avatars especially during the churning of the milk ocean. After all if God is all powerful, why couldn't He accomplish all His ends at once? Why does He have to act through so many different forms? In answer to this, the Vedic literature affirms the omnipotence of the Lord in His various avatars. However, when the Lord descends, He Lord seamlessly fuses His serious purpose (in protecting the demigods and humanity) with sheer sport. In the form of Mohini, He enchants the demons and the demigods. As Lord Dhanvantari, He diminishes the misery of the world by teaching the medical sciences. As Lord Ajita, He enjoys assisting His devotees directly in their struggle for victory. At times He even desires His devotees to be glorified, which is why Lord Shiva drank the poison produced of the ocean. The poison turned his neck dark-blue, hence the name Nila-kantha. In short, although the devotees never stop glorifying the Lord, no one can fully understand His divine play (lila).

 

(1) Visnu Purana 3.10.12

(2) Srimad Bhagavatam 8.8.32

(3) The story of the second appearance is told with details in the Brahmanda-purana (2.3.67.10-24) and Bhava-prakasa (purva-khanda, 1) a minor Ayurvedic text.

 

[krsna 3]

 

/images/graemlins/cool.gif

 

<font color="blue"> Hare Krsna </font color>

[muralidhar_das 0]

According to the Upanishads etc., the Supreme Brahman is pure consciousness, bliss and ecstacy (sat chit ananda). Before the visible earth world appears, the "illusion" of Maya arises as "mind", which is something that is different from pure spiritual consciousness (sat chit ananda). In the teachings of Srila Sridhar Maharaj, he uses the term "chit-abhasa", or "reflection of pure concsiousness", to describe this stage of illusion that arises prior to the creation of the physical life-worlds where souls incarnate in temporary material bodies. Mundane desire is the cause of the creation of material worlds...

 

Srila Sridhar Maharaj:<blockquote>

In Bhagavad-gita (7.27) it is stated:

iccha-dvesa samutthena dvandva-mohena bharata

sarva-bhutani sammoham sarge yanti parantapa

"Two principles in a crude form awaken in the jiva: hatred and desire. Then,

gradually the soul comes down to mingle with the mundane world." At first,

sympathy and apathy develop in a crude form, just as when a sprout springs up

with two leaves. And gradually these two things help us to dive deep into this

mundane world

- Search for Sri Krishna, chapter 3.

</blockquote>

 

According to the Bhagavatam and other shastras, demons such as Hiranyaksa existed before the physical earth was inhabited. These demons exist within "the plane of misconception" or "chit-abhasa". This plane of misconception is the "ghost" world, which we ourselves also are able to enter when we dream, or when our bodies are dead and we become ghosts who are looking for a new body so we can experience physical experiences. As we all experience, in dreams we experience our fantasies in "dream stories" where we strive to fulfil our unbridled desires. It is in this "dream-life" that the demons exist. And above their plane of existence there is a subtler stage of life: Svah-loka, the abode of the gods.

 

But Ravan defeated Indra, and so did Hiranyakasipu. Sometimes darkness overshadows even the worlds of the gods. The demons are constantly trying to overthrow the gods so the gods are frightened. The gods are constantly worried and they fight the demons and use magic (and yajna) and consuming the nectar "amrita" or soma to keep themselves in a superior stage of existence. The gods live in a heavenly realm and use "superior extraterrestrial technology" to maintain their superior status. But still this is all within the realm of "chit-abhasa".

 

All these things take place "within the mind". They are myths, but myths are recurring dreams that arise within the minds of materialistic beings when the material worlds arise, time after time.

[muralidhar_das 0]

"Dreams are real while they last, what more than this can we say of life"

- Carl Jung

[theist 1]

Muralidhar,

 

I sense there is alot in your most intriguing post. Something seems to really resonate almost like it is a doorway for me into a much higher understanding of how to approach the SB.

 

It will take me a while to formulate some questions on this but "I'll be back" for sure.

 

I do have one from what you said. I am picturing svah-loka as ahigher portion of chit-abhasa, very distinct but yet still somehow part of the same landscape. Is this correct?

 

Thanks Prabhu

[muralidhar_das 0]

Yes Svah loka is a higher realm of "misconception" or materialism. They have an advanced understanding of the technology you use to attain "material enjoyment", such as performing yajnas, and chanting mantras that have great force. As in, "may the force be with you".

[theist 1]

Muralidhar,

 

I was too vauge in my question. I meant like California Texas and Australia all all on olanet earth but yet Cal. and Texas are closer and more accessable to each other.

 

More and more I am coming to accept this whole material situation as one big myth. A REAL myth with it's own existence for sure, at least for along as it is kept alive in the minds of the jiva's who are sustaining it.

 

Such a strange situation.

[muralidhar_das 0]

In Sri Krishna Samhita, Srila Bhaktivinode Thakur says:

 

<blockquote>

The very ancient history of India is covered by the dense darkness of forgetfulness, because there is no proper sequence in its ancient history. I will establish with a bit of conjecture whatever I can on the information I have acquired through the four Vedas, the Ramayana, the Mahabharata, and the Puranas. In the beginning, the Aryans lived in a small country named Brahmavarta, which was situated between the two rivers -- Sarasvati and Drsadvati. The present name of Drsadvati is Kagara1. The following verse from the Mahabharata (Vana-parva 83.4) creates some doubts in this regard. Swanlike people should destroy this doubt through samadhi.

 

daksinena sarasvatya drsadvaty uttarena ca

ye vasanti kuruksetre te vasanti tripistape

"One who lives in Kuruksetra, which is south of the Sarasvati River and north of the Drsadvati River, lives in heaven."

 

By discussing the meaning of the name "Brahmavarta" it is assumed that the Aryans came from another country to reside therein. We cannot ascertain exactly where they came from, but it is believed that they came from some northwest country (Russia). In the description of Devi's tirtha near Kashmir in the Mahabharata (Vana-parva 82.102) it is stated:

prasutir yatra vipranam sruyate bharatarsabha

"It is said that brahmanas first came into existence at that place."

 

When they came, they were relatively civilized according to the time. There is no doubt about this. Being proud of their own civilization, they used to disregard the local natives. It is said that when the Aryans disregarded the local natives, the natives' king, Rudradeva, showed the Aryans his prowess by accepting in marriage the hand of Sati, the daughter of Prajapati Daksa, thus making an alliance with Daksa. Nevertheless the Aryans were so proud that after the marriage of Sati, they did not respect her or her husband. That is why Sati hated herself and gave up her body in Daksa's sacrificial arena and thereafter Siva with his followers began to heavily torture the Aryans. The brahmanas were later forced to make an alliance with Siva by allowing him a share in the sacrifice. Still, in order to maintain their superiority, the Aryans placed Siva's seat in the northeastern corner of the sacrificial arena. There is no doubt that Daksa's fire sacrifice took place soon after the Aryans established Brahmavarta, because the ten personalities headed by Daksa are described as the original Prajapatis. The wife of Prajapati Daksa was named Prasuti. She was the daughter of Svayambhuva Manu, the son of Brahma. Svayambhuva Manu and the Prajapatis were the original inhabitants of Brahmavarta. Another son of Brahma was Marici, whose son was Kasyapa. The son of Kasyapa was Vivasvan, whose son was Vaivasvata Manu. The son of Vaivasvata Manu was Iksvaku. From this we must conclude that the Surya dynasty began with the sixth generation from Brahma. At the time of Maharaja Iksvaku, the Aryans were living in a place called Brahmarsi. According to modern calculation the above-mentioned six generations enjoyed their kingdom for two hundred years. Because Brahmavarta was too small it was expanded within this two hundred years and called Brahmarsi. The Aryans were very eager to expand their dynasty, and they had so many children that Brahmavarta became too congested to suit their needs. Modern scholars say that some civilized personalities like Candra were inducted into the Aryan race at that time. According to their calculation, in those two hundred years there were eight Manus, beginning from Svayambhuva Manu up to Vaivasvata Manu. Just after Svayambhuva Manu, the son of Agni named Svarocisa Manu appeared. The grandson of Svayambhuva Manu was Uttama Manu. He had one brother named Tamasa Manu and another brother named Raivata Manu. In the seventh generation from Svayambhuva Manu was Caksusa Manu. Vaivasvata Manu was the fifth generation from Brahma. Savarni Manu was the stepbrother of Vaivasvata. Therefore all the Manus wound up their activities before the time of Iksvaku; there is no doubt about this.

 

Daksa-savarni, Brahma-savarni, Dharma-savarni, Rudra-savarni, Deva-savarni, and Indra-savarni existed only in the imagination of modern people. If they were historical, then it is to be understood that they lived in different parts of India within those two hundred years. It is also stated that the churning of the ocean took place during the time of Caksusa Manu. Vamana appeared during the time of Vaivasvata Manu. After Bali Maharaja's sacrifice, all the demons were driven away by trickery. The kings of the Manu dynasty had their capitals outside Brahmavarta, but in the beginning they were not expert in managing their kingdom, education, or family life. Dhanvantari appeared during the churning of the ocean. The Asvini-kumaras also appeared at that time. The poison which emanated during the churning of the ocean was eliminated by Siva of the Rudra dynasty. By discussing all these topics we can understand that in those days the culture of medicine in progress. It is also seen that at this time the demon Rahu was cut in two, and thus Rahu and Ketu were formed. We can understand from this that the science of astrology was being discussed at that time. It is not believed, however, that there was a written language during this time. And since there is no written information about that period, it appears that it lasted for a vast duration of time. In fact, much later, when calculation of time began, it was said that each Manu enjoyed a rule of seventy maha-yugas.

 

Among the kings, whoever laid down laws was called a Manu and was respected by all. There were two reasons why so many Manus appeared in such a short span of time. The first reason is that there was no written language or books, so knowledge was transmitted by sruti, or hearing. The other necessary srutis that were added to the original sruti were then ascribed to the reigns of the many different Manus. The second reason is that due to an increase of population, the dwelling areas of the Aryans spread and divided into various areas with different kings ruling. Thus there were many lawmakers, or Manus. This is the way modern scholars have described the different durations of Manus. Swanlike people respect whatever substance may be derived from these topics, but transcendental explantions are often helpful for asslike people.

 

paroksa-vado vedo `yam balanam anusasanam

"The Vedic injunctions often describe a situation as something else in order to disguise its real nature in order to guide childish and foolish people who are attached to fruitive activities."

(Bhag. 11.3.44).

 

These explanations of transcendental characteristics and divisions of time were accepted in order to generate firm faith in such peoples' minds. The great sages accept the existence of different Manus in order to benefit neophytes and check the fantasies created at various times and places. We will never say that history and the process of calculating time according to the scriptures is false or imaginary.

 

Modern scholars have stated that the names of the kings from Iksvaku's time are available. The names of the kings in the Surya dynasty can be accepted with a great deal of certainty. From Iksvaku to Ramacandra there were 63 generations. If we consider that each king ruled the kingdom for 25 years, then the time from Iksvaku to Ramacandra comes to 1,575 years. In the ninety-fourth generation of that dynasty, King Brhadbala was killed by Abhimanyu in the Battle of Kuruksetra. The Battle of Kuruksetra took place 2,350 years after the rule of Iksvaku. The duration of all Manvantaras together comes to 200 years. Therefore we will have to accept that the establishment of Brahmavarta took place 2,550 years prior to the Battle of Kuruksetra.

 

....

 

Modern scholars think that Daksa's fire sacrifice took place immediately after the Aryans established Brahmavarta. This strange incident happened due to the Aryan's pride of their caste and their unwillingness to maintain a relationship with the local natives. At that time Bhutanatha Rudra was the leader of the local natives. Most of the hill areas were under his jurisdiction. Bhutan, or Bhuta-sthana, Koca-vihara, or Kucni-vihara, and Trivarta, where Kailasa Mountain is seen, were all under Rudra's rule. Even though he was a local native, he was expert in the science of medicine, fighting, and singing. Seeing his ability, the eleven Rudra kings, who were his representatives, even claimed that he was the supreme controller. Such a personality as the King of the Rudras could not tolerate the brahmana's false ego, so he forcefully and tactfully married the daughter of Prajapati Daksa, who lived at Kankhala, near Haridvara. After Satidevi left her body, a fierce battle took place between him and the brahmanas. After the battle, he was given a share of the sacrifice and a seat in the northeast corner of the sacrificial arena. After that the Aryans made friendship with the powerful local mountain people. Since then, we do not find any further quarrel between the local mountain people and the brahmarsis, because the mountain people respected the brahmanas and the King of the Rudras was counted among the lords of the Aryans20 After narrating the conclusions and descriptions of the modern scholars regarding Sri Rudradeva, I wish to humbly point out to the Saivite readers that we accept Sri Mahadeva as jagad-guru and an incarnation of the Lord. We always aspire for his mercy. By his unreserved mercy, we attain devotion to Lord Krsna.

 

Although the Aryans no longer quarreled with the mountain people, many persons from their own dynasty put forward obstacles on the path of prosperity. The descendants of Kasyapa, who accepted the features of snakes and birds, started residing here and there under the subordination of the demigods. At that time the descendants of Kasyapa who accepted the features of birds developed intense animosity towards the snakes. But later the snakes became more powerful, and they ruled many kingdoms. Gradually the birds became almost extinct. From the womb of Diti, the wife of Kasyapa, a few formidable men were born. They were condemned as demons. They became enemies of all good people by willfully acting against the brahmarsis. Eventually they quarreled with King Indra and established a separate kingdom. This quarrel became known as the battle between the demigods and the demons. Almost all the demons lived in the country known as Panca-nada [the place of five rivers] (Punjab) <font color="blue"> (***note by muralidhar*** after their defeat by the gods the asuras ran away to the lands to the west, that is, they went to Iran, where people are known to have worshipped the god "Ahura" or "asura". </font color>) Sakala, Asarara, Narasimha, and Multan, or Kasyapapura, were under their jurisdiction. It is possible that Prajapati Kasyapa, in whose family the demigods and demons were born, lived in the countries of Panca-nada and Brahmavarta. The Prajapatis lived around Brahmavarta. At that time Brahmavarta was the center of the demigods' kingdom. Both the Sarasvati and Drsadvati Rivers flowed in the demigods' kingdom. Brahmavarta is the place that was founded by the demigods between these two rivers.

 

sarasvati drsadvatyor deva-nadyor yad antaram

tam deva-nirmitam desam brahmavartam pracaksate

"The tract of land founded by the demigods between the Sarasvati and Drsadvati Rivers is called Brahmavarta." (Manu-samhita 2.17)21. From the word deva in this verse [see footnote below], it is understood that the demigods were residing there. The demigods were also sons of Prajapati Kasyapa, therefore they are also accepted as Aryans. It is felt that during the founding of Brahmavarta, just after the reign of Svayambhuva Manu, Indra, the son of Kasyapa and an expert administrator, was awarded the title of King of the demigods. Those great souls who were engaged in the administrative work received different posts like Vayu, Varuna, Agni, Yama, and Pusa.

 

 

</blockquote>

[muralidhar_das 0]

Some of the things said here may seem startling to some people.

 

It is to be remembered, however, that Sri Bhakti Siddhanta Saraswati published this book not once but twice. When the first edition was sold out, it was reprinted and distributed among the devotees. There is no doubt that Sri Bhakti Siddhanta Saraswati agreed with what is written here; there is no evidence anywhere of Sri Bhakti Siddhanta Saraswati saying he disagreed with the point of view that is presented in Sri Krishna Samhita. And indeed my own Guru Maharaj, Srila Bhakti Rakshak Sridhar Maharaj, told me about some of the things in Sri Krishna Samhita. So I read it and studied it, after that.

[krsna 3]

“I had a great desire to translate Srimad Bhagavatam in this proper swanlike way, but I have no time to translate this huge work. For this reason I am now extracting the main purport of this great literature and presenting it in the form of this Sri Krsna-samhita.”

 

Bhaktivinoda Thakura

[Guest guest]

SB 12.13.2: When the Supreme Personality of Godhead appeared as Lord Kurma, a tortoise, His back was scratched by the sharp-edged stones lying on massive, whirling Mount Mandara, and this scratching made the Lord sleepy. May you all be protected by the winds caused by the Lord's breathing in this sleepy condition.

Ever since that time, even up to the present day, the ocean tides have imitated the Lord's inhalation and exhalation by piously coming in and going out.

Who can fail to see that even the sleeping lord's breathing can give protection? He is unlimited in every way, so what is your point? Don't try to bring material concepts into the understanding, for that must always fail.

What to you is distress, is obviously different for the Supreme Personality of Godhead. Why do you try to limit him to your sphere of experience?

Maha-vishnu generates all the universes, while in Cosmic Slumber - you and everything else is part of his cosmic dream. you better wake up to that reality.

VdK.

[theist 1]

Who is bringing in something material? Is asking a question on how others view a verse material?

 

So what do you consider spiritual then? Not asking questions is spiritual? Just puppet along. I believe if Krsna wanted to share eternity with lifeless marienets He wouldn't have bothered sharing His attribute of individuality.