shastric predictions of Chaitnaya

[Guest guest]

the following link is for a web site which gives a list of scriptural verses which guadiya vaishvanas claim to be predictions of Sri Chaitanya a Krishna incarnate. I must mention that some of the citings on these web pages are poor as some verses are gievn without full rererence of text number chapter etc....

 

www.acbspn.com/godhead/gaura_1predictions.htm

 

Now what my quiery concerns is that gaudiya are very

insistent on the scriptural authority and roots of beleifs and parctices- iv heard gaudiya and other vaishnavas crticise advaitic/mayavada beleif, on the basis of being very biased interpretation of the scriptures. Now Gaudiyas are certain that these verses in these web pages are very clear and obvious evidence for their beleif in the 'golden avatar' of chatainya.

 

However not being familiar with these texts

1) are these verses taken from puranas/upnishads interpreted by non-gaudiya sanskrit scholars in the same way

2)Also, Ramanuja and Madhava vaishnavs like the gaudiyas are also dead set that all their doctrines and philosophies are based on hard sriptural evidence- so what is their opinion on these verses whihc gaudiyas see as clear shastric evidence?????

 

p.s in this web site there are many debates which seem to go of on a tangent, please can we keep discussion on the lines of the poinst i have and not go of on a random debate!!!

http://www.acbspn.com/godhead/gaura_1predictions.htm

[gHari]

 

All of India, all sampradayas consider Krsna Caitanya a great Vedic scholar. Start there.

 

 

 

The Teachings of Lord Caitanya

 

[Guest guest]

95% of these "predictions" are useless. There is one about Mayapur from the "Chandogya Upanishad", but why is there no verse number for it? Simple: it isn't there. The same is true for almost all the other verses.

[vijay]

I know some of them from the vayu purana arent there as these were quoted by jiva goswami in the midst of pandits and at the time were not disputed however it seems to of been taken out now, as puranas were published in the last 100 or so years by putting together manuscripts from various places having said that i have personally seen in copies of the bhavishya puran the predictions of mahaprabhu meeting the various acaryas.

 

If you want I can find these out straight away and they are very direct.

 

[Guest guest]

Srila B.R. Sridhar Maharaj

<blockquote>

In the teachings of Karabhajana Rsi (in Srimad Bhagavat) we find mention of the different incarnations for different ages (yugavataras). In Dvapara-yuga, the yugavatara is mentioned as follows:

 

dvapare bhagavan syamah

pita-vasa nijayudhah

srivatsadibhir ankais ca

laksanair upalaksitah

 

In Dvapara-yuga, Lord Krsna appears with the color of a dark rain cloud, wearing lightning-colored garments. He is decorated with beautiful ornaments. His chest bears the mark of Srivatsa, and He carries His own weapons.

 

After the description of the yugavatara of Dvapara-yuga, Karabhajana Rsi mentions the kali-yugavatara:

 

iti dvapara urv-isa

stuvanti jagad-isvaram

nana-tantra-vidhanena

kalav api tatha srnu

 

He says, "0 King, up to Dvapara-yuga, I have finished describing the incarnations for different ages who come to remind the people of the most appropriate duty for their age. They come and tell us, 'If you do this, you will get the greatest benefit.' O King, after the Dvapara age is finished, the age of Kali comes. The incarnation for the age of Kali has been mentioned in many places in the scriptures, and now I am just going to explain that information to you." (S.B. 11.5.31)

 

Then he says:

 

krsna-varnam tvisakrsnam

sangopangastra parsadam

yajnaih sankirtana prayair

yajanti hi su-medhasah

 

In a suppressed way, this verse explains the advent of Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu. The ordinary meaning of krsna-varnam is "of a black color." But tvisakrsnam means "His luster is not black." Accompanied by His associates, He is worshiped by the process of sankirtana, the chanting of the holy name of Krsna, and those of sharp intellect will perform this kind of worship.

 

Jiva Goswami explains the meaning of this verse in his own parallel verse:

 

antah krsnam bahir gauram

darsitangadi-vaibhavam

kalau ankirtanadyai sma

krsna-caitanyam asritah

 

"I take shelter of Sri Krsna Caitanya Mahaprabhu, who is outwardly of a golden complexion, but is inwardly Krsna Himself. In this age of Kali, He displays His expansions while performing congregational chanting of the holy name of Krsna. That He is blackish within means that internally He is Krsna; that He is golden without means that He has accepted the mood of Srimati Radharani. In the age of Kali, that Golden Lord is seen accompanied by His expansions, associates, and intimate devotees performing sankirtana."

 

Someone may argue that the meaning of krsna-varnam is that His color is black and His luster is also black. But how is this possible? That would be redundant. The conjunction between the words tvisa and akrsnam mean that His color is krsna, black, but His luster is akrsna: not black. Then, someone might say, "Not black does not necessarily mean golden. Why should it mean golden?" The answer is found in Srimad-Bhagavatam.

 

Once, Vasudeva sent the astrologer-priest Garga Rsi to Vrndavana to perform the name-giving ceremony for Krsna. At that time, Garga Rsi came to the house of Nanda Maharaja and explained that Vasudeva had sent him. He said, "Your child is now a little grown up and the name-giving ceremony must be performed." At that time, he spoke the following verse:

 

asan vamas trayo hy asya

grhnato 'nuyugam tanuh

suklo raktas tatha pita

idanim krsnatam gatah

 

In past incarnations, this boy has appeared with different complexions: white, red, and gold, according to the particular age in which He appeared. Now He has assumed this blackish color."

 

 

Here we find the key to this mystic way of representing Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu to the fortunate and intelligent circle (su-med-hasah), that ordinary people may not have any clue.

 

dhyeyam sada paribhava-ghnam abhista-doham

tirthaspadam siva-virinci-nutam saranyam

bhrtyarti-ham pranata-pala bhavabdhi-potam

vande maha-purusa te caranaravindam

 

"0 Mahaprabhu, Your lotus feet are the highest object of meditation, for they not only destroy the pain of material existence, but they bestow the greatest fulfillment to all souls who take shelter beneath them. Your lotus feet even purify all saintly persons and holy places. Lord Siva and Lord Brahma aspire to take shelter beneath Your lotus feet. 0 Mahaprabhu, You give shelter to all who simply bow down before You. You relieve all the miseries of Your surrendered servants. In the grand ship of Your lotus feet, we can cross over this ocean of material miseries. 0 Mahaprabhu, I bow down before Your lotus feet."

 

After mentioning the incarnation of Godhead for the age of Kali, Srimad-Bhdgavatam suddenly begins this song in praise of that great yugavatara, Sri Krsna Caitanya Mahaprabhu. With a grand voice the Bhagavatam has come to sing the praise of that guide for Kali-yuga. This follows the verse which hints at the avatara of Kali-yuga. Krsna-varnam means one who is always describing Krsna, who always has on his lips the words "Krsna, Krsna, Krsna." Another meaning of this expression is "One who is Krsna Himself, but whose luster is not black." If we look deeply, we shall find that hidden beneath His golden luster is the blackish body of Krsna. With His own paraphernalia He has come to this plane, and service to Him is performed only by sankirtana, divine sound in mass prayer. By that symptom we can recognize His divine position.

 

Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu is a hidden incarnation; He comes in disguise. Such an avatara is worshiped by the divinely intellectual. In this way, the Srimad-Bhagavatam first describes that uncommon, extraordinary personality, Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu, in a mystic way and then proclaims His nobility and His greatness.

 

The Srimad-Bhagavatam explains, "That same personality who came as Ramacandra and Krsna has again appeared. He has come to direct you to the real fulfillment of life. He is drawing the sweetest nectar from above for the sake of everyone. Only meditate on Him and all your troubles will be finished. He is the agent purifying all the holy places of pilgrimage and great saintly persons by His touch, by His sankirtana, by His drawing the highest things down from the highest plane. And even Brahma and Siva, puzzled by His noble gift, will begin to praise Him. They will eagerly aspire to take shelter under His lotus feet in surrender. The pains of all who come to serve Him will be removed, and their inner necessities will be fulfilled. And He will take care of those who take shelter of Him; they will be given protection as well as everything they may need. In this world where mortality rules, where we are continually experiencing the undesirable changes of repeated birth and dea th, in this area where no one wants to live, a great ship will come for us and take us within and carry us away from this unpleasant position. Let us fall at the feet of that great personality who comes to give the highest nectar." The Srimad-Bhagavatam continues:

 

tyaktvasu-dustyaja-surepsita-rajya-laksmim

dharmistha arya-vacasa yad agad aranyam

maya-mrgam dayitayepsitam anvadhavad

vande maha-purusa te caranaravindam

 

"0 Supreme Lord, You gave up the goddess of fortune and Her great opulence, which is most difficult to abandon, and is sought after even by the gods. In order to perfectly establish the principles of religion. You left for the forest to honor the brahmana's curse. To deliver the sinful souls who chase illusory pleasures. You search after them and award them Your devotional service. At the same rime. You are engaged in search of Yourself, in search for Sri Krsna: reality the beautiful."

 

Srila Visvanatha Cakravarti Thakura has given his explanation that although it seems that this verse applies to Lord Ramacandra, who left His kingdom and went with Sitadevi to the forest to discharge the duties designed by His father, this also applies to Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu. Visvanatha Cakravarti Thakura has drawn out the internal meaning of this verse and applied it in the case of Caitanya Mahaprabhu. Tyakva su-dustyaja-surepsita-raj ya-laksmim means He left imperial prosperity which is hard to abandon. Generally we find this in the case ot Lord Ramacandra, but Visvanatha Cakravarh Thakura says that surepsita-rajya-laksmim means the valuabledevotional company of Visnupriya-devi. That may not appear to be a materially big thing, but the dedication that Visnupriya has shown in Her heart for Sriman Mahaprabhu is greater than any imperial standard. And He had to leave that behind. Such a standard of sacrifice and service is never found even among the great society of the gods. For the sake of the public welfare He had to ignore the serving, loving attitude of Visnupriya.

 

</blockquote>

[Pankaja_Dasa]

95% of these "predictions" are useless. There is one about Mayapur from the "Chandogya Upanishad", but why is there no verse number for it? Simple: it isn't there. The same is true for almost all the other verses.

 

 

..you love this verse: aham brahmasmi.

 

..I bet you hate this verse: daso smi

 

wink?

[Guest guest]

"..I bet you hate this verse: daso smi"

 

No, I don't. But if you said there was a "daso 'smi" verse in a place where there isn't, I would still point out the mistake. I believe in Mahaprabhu, but I don't believe in trying to convince people by throwing around spurious verses. It is worse than useless; it gives people an impression of Gaudiyas as scripturally ignorant -- or even worse -- as falsifying scripture.

 

[Pankaja_Dasa]

 

In this Age, nobody believes in anything. Even if you have little faith in Mahaprabhu that's enough. Think of this, how many times did you read Bg.18.66 verse in Gita?

 

Did you surrender? Did you! Tell me!

[krsna]

 

 

In the Pratisarga part of the Bhavisya Purana, Chapter 20 verses 71-73; we find the following prediction:

 

"Lord Jagannath, the Supreme Lord Sri Hari Himself, spoke these attractive words for the welfare of all: The mlecchas who are born from mixed countries ruled by descendants of Kasyapa and the sudras will become brahmanas by qualification and initiation.

 

They will wear sikhas and brahmana threads and will become well versed in the uncontaminated fruit of the Vedas (Srimad Bhagavatam).

 

They will worship Me by the Yajna prescribed by the Lord of Lords, the protector of Saci. (Sri Chaitanya Mahaprabhu)."

 

Forty-six years before the beginning of Kali Yuga, Vishnuchitta, one of the twelve great Vaisnava saints of the Sri Sampradaya predicted: "There will come a race which will tread the Earth with raised hands and vertical tilaka on their foreheads, who will chant the names of Hari; this will destroy the influence of Kali."

(Divyaprabandha 1.10).

 

 

Sripada Ramanuja predicted: "The pure devotion to Sri Hari ( Krishna ) devoid of karma and jnana will grow and grow like a banyan tree covering the whole world, teaching everyone who takes shelter of it."

(Prapannamrta tarpana - last chapter)

 

 

Sripada Madhvacharya predicted: " Real knowledge of the difference between jiva ( soul ) and Sri Hari ( Personality of Godhead ) and the service of Sri Hari ( Bhakti ) will spread all over the world very shortly."

(Anu Madhva Vijaya - last chapter)

 

 

 

Today and in the future Loving servants of the Personality of Godhead will guide living entites from all races and countries and unify them in the chanting of the holy name.

( Bhaktivinode Thakur )

1838-1914

 

 

 

In recent times Srila AC Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada (1896-1977) traveled world-wide and declared very boldly;

 

"I am not God! You are not God! We are all servants of God and Krishna is His Name, please chant the Holy Name and become Happy ."