The Hindufication of ISKCON

[krsna 3]

 

by Ragaputra das

 

Posted on chakra March 31, 2005

 

I read with almost utter disbelief the announcement from the Spanish Fork temple in Utah regarding the "Holi/Gaura Purnima festival." Here's the quote, among many paragraphs about Holi, which contains the sole mention of Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu and his glorious appearance day.

 

"Elements of the festival will be observed with classical Indian dance, and a PowerPoint presentation and bathing ceremony for India's greatest incarnation, Sri Chaitanya Mahaprabhu, whose appearance day coincides with Holi. There will be musical interludes, the lighting of a bonfire, burning of an effigy, and the throwing of dry colors on friends and foe alike. The dry powders supplied by the temple are non-stain, but still guests are cautioned not to wear their 'Saturday Best'."

 

Notice, if you will, the Lord's appearance is third on the list and "coincides with Holi" (not the other way around). Further, about half of the article is dedicated to the résumé of the Indian dancer who will be featured. Last, but not least, Gaura Purnima is on Friday the 25th, not Saturday the 26th, at least in North America (fasting until moonrise, in case anyone has forgotten). So what gives?

 

I know I am not the first person who has commented on this trend, and the Spanish Fork temple has repeatedly held several similar festivals in the past, but where is the outrage?

 

Here in San Diego, a similar trend is noted. Millions of dollars have been raised for a new temple project (almost exclusively from the Indian community) complete with Siva and Ganesh, samskaras and pujas are performed with regularity for the Indian community, some of the devotees are making a trek to the peak of Mt. Whitney for Siva puja, etc., etc. Incidentally, Sivaratri was a two day affair because it fell on a weekday. So there was a follow up celebration on Saturday so the (Indian) community would not be inconvenienced.

 

Meanwhile, preaching to the public at large in the form of book distribution is going on only because two dedicated brahmacaris, Mahat-tattva das and Tota-Gopinath das, are bucking the trend. The bhakta program seems almost non-existent and the current temple facilities are badly in need of repair. What's going on?

 

The answer is obvious. The Indian community has a lot of money and is willing to fork it over for the projects that fit in with their notions of "Hindu dharma". But we are not Hindus. We are devotees of Krishna, the Supreme Personality of Godhead, and we have dedicated our lives to spreading the Sanatana Dharma of service to Krishna. Kowtowing to the material conceptions of the Indian community, or any other materially designated group (vegans, PETA, etc.) will not advance us in spiritual life.

 

It's not about getting money; it's about serving Krishna. Better to keep the purity and remain poor, than deviate and get millions of dollars. Unless one is very advanced, he should be careful about accepting money from materialistic men. So many deviations have occurred in the name of preaching simply for acquiring money and good taste prevents mentioning them all here. But anyone familiar with the goings-on of the society for the last 30 years will know what I'm talking about.

 

I'm not suggesting that we discount the Indian community or fail to encourage them to donate money for Krishna Consciousness. My concern is that in the name of preaching and yukta-vairagya, Srila Prabhupada's movement is morphing into a western sect of Hinduism. This is certainly not what Srila Prabhupada envisioned for his society. I welcome comments and opposing viewpoints.

 

[stonehearted 0]

I know Ragaputra, who works as an attorney in San Diego, fairly well. He and I served together on ISKCON San Diego's board of directors for two or three years. I know that he is not alone in his dismay over changes in ISKCON's culture, in San Diego and elsewhere.

 

I remember noticing that at the evening aratis in San Diego, since attendance was poor, except for a guest or two and a couple of Indian members, devotees would sit down with harmonium and other instruments and chant. I would sometimes go (Ragaputra, too) and be the only person standing. Everyone in attendance was sitting. Srila Prabhupada taught us to stand during arati; it is a ceremony for receiving the Lord, and whenever a superior person enters a room, it is customary--even in the West--to stand.

 

One of my daughters still lives in San Diego, and she finds most of the bug festivals progressively less enlivening. Instead of having big, thermonuclear kirtans like she grew up with, they instead sit and listen to local Indian members sing whatever bhajans they may be accustomed to singing on such occasions. It's a little hard to imagine Srila Prabhupada encouraging such a thing.

 

To be fair, the temple in Utah appears quite beautiful, and there's no doubt that Charu and Vaibhavi have put their hearts into it. The same is true of the temple being planned in San Diego. And I'm sure that the San Diego president and GBC representative try to guide the Indian members in their choices of bhajans, etc. Moreover, these Indian folks can be really sweet, and a few of them are becoming devotees of Krishna. Some of these families have been attending and supporting the temple for over 30 years. I know that several in San Diego have accepted initiation, and there are some who regularly attend mangal arati and Bhagavatam class. However, I know that many devotees there wonder whether the temple authorities aren't going a little overboard in trying to accommodate them.

[Guest guest]

 

I may be a bit biased, having been brought up in a hindu family, however I now am leaning to ISKCON. But I still feel it important to nore that Iskcon has it roots intimately tied with Hinduism and the for the most part they don't have too different attitudes, so why shoul the mercy of the lord be resticted to divotees? i however do not agree that the practices should be over accomodated or festival dates changed for convenience, here in canada the hindu temples don't even do that. However i find it odd that hindus would remain seated during arti as we are also taught to stand during the arti ceremony

 

[Guest guest]

I dont see ties at all, I also came from a "Hindu" background and what most "hinduism" is a lot of Hodge Podge sentimentalism. As we all know the word "Hindu" is never mentioned in the Sastras and Prabhupad said we have nothing to do with "Hindu" or "Hinduism"

 

A lot of "hindu's" are extremely disrespectful towards iskcon as they feel what they have been brought up is the correct way and whatever iskcon does is something what "white" people have done to "their" culture. Most have not even read the bhagavat gita to understand vedic culture.

[Guest guest]

Depends how you DEFINE Hinduism....if its just a western term for the vedic religions from in/around India then ISKCON would almost certainly fall under that category.

 

If the contempt for identifying ISKCON as a Hindu sect is because of the origins of the term Hindu, then thats arrogance and bigotry on ISKCON's part. For example, ISKCON devotees seem MORE THAN willing to represent Hindus in the political arena.

Hypocritical if you ask me.

[Guest guest]

"I dont see ties at all, I also came from a "Hindu" background and what most "hinduism" is a lot of Hodge Podge sentimentalism. As we all know the word "Hindu" is never mentioned in the Sastras and Prabhupad said we have nothing to do with "Hindu" or "Hinduism"

 

A lot of "hindu's" are extremely disrespectful towards iskcon as they feel what they have been brought up is the correct way and whatever iskcon does is something what "white" people have done to "their" culture. Most have not even read the bhagavat gita to understand vedic culture. "

 

 

First off, neither were Christianity nor Judaism mentioned in the Bible. They are names given by us to categorize the religions. This idea that "Hindu" was never stated in the sastras is moot as these are names meant to categorize people's beliefs.

Our religious beliefs are known by the term Hindu, therefore we ARE Hindu as far as the rest of the world is concerned. Why do you concern yourself over a label that outsiders have given us? It's not a pejorative term so what's the big deal? It's just a categorization of our belief system.

 

And don't be so ignorant to fall into a debate about semantics needlessly.

 

Hinduism is not a hodgepodge of sentimentalism. It's an amalgamation of different beliefs, yes, but all of that is done to seek the truth, to seek Brahman. Hindus themselves don't easily fall into any category as the word "Hindu" is a very broad term that encompasses ISKCON along with all other branches of Hinduism.

 

the Vedas, the Mahabharata, the Ramayana, the Puranas, the Bhagavad-Gita are HINDU texts as they are books Hindus use to define their belief system. ISKCON uses these books too. Guess what? that makes them similar!

 

And just because Hindus have been growing distant from their religion and more intolerant of others doesn't make it a shame to be called Hindu. Rather, it's the people who claim they are Hindus and who are guilty of the above that should be ashamed they are Hindus.

 

Honestly, I believe ISKCON is a valid branch of Hinduism, but its devotes seem to display the dogmatic and judgemental approach that is often found in the Abrahamic religions, which is what I find most disconcerting.

 

[sumedh 0]

 

Honestly, I believe ISKCON is a valid branch of Hinduism, but its devotes seem to display the dogmatic and judgemental approach that is often found in the Abrahamic religions, which is what I find most disconcerting.

 

 

 

If you mean to be honest then be specific. A blanket statement like this only shows your own position which itself can be said to be dogmatic etc. People seem to be fond of throwing around words like "arrrogance", "bigotary", "hypocrisy" etc. for ISKCON without any justifications.

 

 

And don't be so ignorant to fall into a debate about semantics needlessly.

 

 

 

Its not just semantics. Saying that a person is hindu really does not tell anything about his philosophical or religious pratises apart from that he/she identifies with a particular group. It is much too loose a term; better word would be vaishnava or sanatana-dharma.

 

 

It's an amalgamation of different beliefs, yes, but all of that is done to seek the truth, to seek Brahman.

 

 

 

The more correct categorization would be those who accept the Vedas and follow the varnashrama dharma meaning the four social and four spiritual orders of life.

 

haribol

[Guest guest]

Hari Bol,

 

The statement that the word Hinduism is not found in the vedic literature was used by Shrila Prabhupada to explain sanatana dharma or the religion of the living entity, as opposed to temporary faiths like Christianity, Judaism, etc, which have a history of being founded recently. The fact that Christianity, etc. are not mentioned in their own literatures verifies that they are not sanatana dharma.

 

As far as categorizing people's beliefs, as pointed out by the prabhu above, it would be more accurate to call Krishna devotees Vaishnavas, etc. The term Hindu is used very loosely and many different beliefs are practiced by Hindus, which is antithetical to our sampradaya's teachings and therefore Shrila Prabhupada did not want to use the term Hindu in relation to his movement, the Hare Krishna Movement.

 

Hari Bol

[Guest guest]

From ISKCON Wales site :

The terms Hare Krishna and Hinduism are intimately connected, yet not synonymous. The word Hindu was first used by Persians to denote 'those South of the Indus river'. It has come to include the many diverse strands of Indian and Vedic culture which make up Hinduism, the world's third largest religion, with over 600 million practitioners worldwide. As such, 'Hinduism' describes not a single, monolithic religion, but a vast spectrum of spiritual paths, many tracing their origins to particular branches of the Vedas.

 

The word 'Veda' literally means knowledge, and refers to the original Vedic shastras (scriptures) and civilisation, dating back many thousands of years. One of these shastras, the Bhagavad Gita, forms the philosophical and theological basis of the Hare Krishna Movement, and is often referred to as 'The Bible of Hinduism.'

 

Hare Krishna is a major monotheistic tradition, known academically as vaishnavism or sanatana dhama, 'the eternal teaching'. The core practice is bhakti (devotion) to Krishna, the Supreme Personality of Godhead. It is both a major strand of Hinduism, and a transcendental, non-sectarian and inclusive process applicable to any religious culture such as Christianity, Buddism, Judaism or Islam, all of which include devotional practices and branches.

 

 

[Guest guest]

these bodies.

 

Chant Hare Krsna and you will understand. How many "hindus" chant Hare Krsna anyway?

 

Krsna is Not Hindu.

[Guest guest]

 

Re

( we are not these bodies.)

 

Easy said then actualy perceive that

 

Re

(Chant Hare Krsna and you will understand. How many "hindus" chant Hare Krsna anyway?)

 

Do you know?

 

Re

(Krsna is Not Hindu.)

 

I might say Krishna is not Iskcon and what does that prove?

 

Jai Shree Krishna

[theist 1]

"Krishna is not Iskcon." Very good and very true. The Lord always retains His independence. Whatever conception of God any religion or sect may have of Him we can know for certain that He is certainly much much more.

[Guest guest]

"I might say Krishna is not Iskcon and what does that prove?"

 

krsna is iskcon because he's krsna conscious

(iskcon=krsna conscious international society)

 

 

[Pankaja_Dasa 1]

 

Next they'll be wanting sai baba worship.!

 

 

 

I was watching this thing on TV, and there seemed to be some Hindus and this white devotee. The hindu devotee looked sort of mortified that a 'white guy' was so devoted. The white guy in turn looked 'pleased with himself' which in turn made the Hindu guys face turn sour. I was wondering though maybe we should be little careful about 'the Hindu's' because most are 100% devoted, but you cannot really tell. For them being KC is normal. For me and Joe Bloggs we don't even know what Bhakti even is.

 

Haribol!

[Guest guest]

Easy said then actualy perceive that

 

Perception is due to the consciousness, if the consciousness is out of maya then they will understand they are not these bodies, if they are still under illusion they will think I am "hindu", "IndianAmerican" so on and so on.

 

Chanting Hare Krsna awakens our dorment relationship with krsna as the eternel servent. As the eternel servent always adheres to what krsna says. Krsna says you are not these bodies. You can tell the nature of the consciousness by their behaviour. If they are chanting then we can tell.

 

The argument of krsna is not iskcon is just plane silly. It shows lack of understanding. The guest was trying to prove that God is none of these material and TEMPERARY designations that we put on him or ourselves.

 

 

Hare krsna.

[Guest guest]

re

(krsna is iskcon because he's krsna conscious

(iskcon=krsna conscious international society)

 

Nice sentiment but,

 

It is still a designation, if Krishna was that society no one would be falling let alone the sanyasis.

Krishna is perfact.

 

Jai Shree Krishna

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

 

Re

(Perception is due to the consciousness, if the consciousness is out of maya then they will understand they are not these bodies, if they are still under illusion they will think I am "hindu", "IndianAmerican" so on and so on.)

 

And does thinking I am part of iskcon absolve you out of Maya, a Hindu also acknowledge that he is not a body that consciousness has evolved since time in memorial.

 

Re

(Chanting Hare Krsna awakens our dorment relationship with krsna as the eternel servent. As the eternel servent always adheres to what krsna says. Krsna says you are not these bodies. You can tell the nature of the consciousness by their behaviour. If they are chanting then we can tell.)

 

I have no argument on chanting nor the other paths prescribed in the Vedas Krishna himself mentions other ways to reach him but that is not the point of discussion. One can never tell what ‘s ones own position is for that is the power of Maya, simply chanting can not indicate the nature of others consciousness even less so belonging to any groups. Frailty of the soul impelled by intense desires has proved time and again very strong even the gurus fall.

 

Re

(The argument of krsna is not iskcon is just plane silly. It shows lack of understanding. The guest was trying to prove that God is none of these material and TEMPERARY designations that we put on him or ourselves.)

 

I could throw the same argument back at you saying it is silly to think Hindu is not Krishna, after all it was them against all the odds preserved the culture, they have not stopped chanting. But i am not saying Krishna is Hindu

 

Hare krsna.

Jai Shree Krishna

 

[Guest guest]

sannyasis fall because they're not iskcon (=krsna conscious)

 

the fact is that you can associate the definition "iskcon" with krsna... but not the definition "hindu"

[Guest guest]

get out of the attachment that you are this body.

 

Iskcon stands for International Society for KRSNA CONSCIOUSNESS. Meaning its a society that is GOD consciousss, not hindu consciouss or America Consciouss.

 

Being in iskcon doesnt mean you loose your identity as an eternel spirit soul, thats WHO YOU ARE. NOT THIS BODY!!!! Iskcon is reviving that consciousness.

 

The fact that you say a "Hindu" also acknowledges that he is not a body is a contradition in itself. Just because you are born a certain skin color mean you are that skin color. You are stating and labeling someone as a hindu because they are a perticular skin color. You are not your skin color, try to get that in your head.

 

Why so attached to being hindu when the sastra say one birth you can have a brown body, the next birth a white body. So why so much attachment to being hindu. The whole I am hindu and I am proud of being that is just a contradiction.

 

How long have you been hindu? How long will you be Hindu for?

 

In Kali Yuga, the Yuga dharma is to chant Hare Krsna.

 

That fact that you think that God can be hindu is just plain silly. Why is it silly to think Krsna is Hindu or hindu is krsna.

 

Read the Bhagavat Gita my friend. You have existed long before you became a hindu.

 

You are not this body.

[Guest guest]

You have to give up your designation. “I am Hindu,” “I am Muslim,” “I am Christian,” “I am African,” “I am Indian,” “I am European,” “I am woman,” “I am man,” That requires practice. And that practice means simply by chanting, you’ll be purified. Go on chanting Hare Krsna.

 

You have to simply think, “I am the eternal servant of Krsna.” When you think like that then all these dirty things will automatically vanish.

 

(Class by Srila Prabhupada , 10/26/1975)

[Guest guest]

Those who are seers of the truth have concluded that of the nonexistent [the material body] there is no endurance and of the eternal [the soul] there is no change. This they have concluded by studying the nature of both. –Sri Krishna, Bhagavad-gita 2.16

 

[theist 1]

It has been well established that Srila Prabhupada did not teach "hinduism". His own words on the topic should be enough.

 

But I can see two ways of looking at the Gaura Purnima?Holi festival held in Salt Lake.

 

1. It appears to waterdown and obscure Gaura Purnima.

 

2. It brought 1,500 visitors to to the temple, a portion of whom very well may become interested enough to inquire further into the teachings of Lord Caitanya.

 

Maybe a more idle situation would be to have an adjacent festival hall, separate from the temple itself and hold the Holi celebration a day or two earlier to familiarize and advertise people with upcoming Gaura Purnima celebration at the temple.

 

This would give a great oppurtunity to highlight Gaura Purima which afterall is where the real potency lives and at the same time take advantage of the large and growing popularity of the Holi festival.

 

Something along these lines.

 

Just a thought.

[Guest guest]

It is silly to denote a society as krsnaconscious. that is your iskconception, identification with the society, where you must become Godconscious, not society or isckon conscious.

you also talk from the bodily platform.

Read Sri Guru and His Grace by Srila Sridhar Maharaja and all will become clear.

VdK.

[Guest guest]

Nobody is promoting a society. Man you sure have thick heads. Any society that is god consciouss is on a spiritual platform.

 

I see a lot of envy for Iskcon thats for sure.

 

Without Iskcon most people woudnt even know about Krsna, Vrindavan or any Pastimes of Krsna. Most "Hindu"s would be following some made up hodge podge nonsense their grandfathers taught them.

 

Sridhar Maharaj is a great personality I am sure and I am sure he Loved Prabhupad and what he has done.

 

Try to think without envy.

[Guest guest]

Re

 

(get out of the attachment that you are this body.)

 

Sound advise, perhaps you can learn to take that on board as well, do not mistake for one minute by belonging to an organization (that could be any) one has realized the self, be aware of extending the bodily attachment to an organization.

 

Re

(Iskcon stands for International Society for KRSNA CONSCIOUSNESS. Meaning its a society that is GOD consciousss, not hindu consciouss or America Consciouss.)

 

Precisely it is a society it comes in many shape and sizes with various degree of realization.

Equating America with Hindu does not bode well America is a country and Hindu is a religion, all you are trying to say is Iskcon is a better religion and all I am trying to say that neither can claim to be God.

I can make the same claim being a Hindu means it is a way of life following the shastra (many have come to change that but we still percivere) it is neither Iskcon or America conscious.

 

Re

(Being in iskcon doesnt mean you loose your identity as an eternel spirit soul, thats WHO YOU ARE. NOT THIS BODY!!!! Iskcon is reviving that consciousness.)

 

The self always remain unchanged, there is no fear of loosing the Identity, only our intense desire to enjoy through the medium of this body falsely identifying with it,binds us to this sansar. Any Hindu practicing the Dharma knows this fact, that you are not this body, it is not a monopoly of Iskcon. Neither knowing this fact makes one realized.

 

 

Re

(The fact that you say a "Hindu" also acknowledges that he is not a body is a contradition in itself. Just because you are born a certain skin color mean you are that skin color. You are stating and labeling someone as a hindu because they are a perticular skin color. You are not your skin color, try to get that in your head.

Why so attached to being hindu when the sastra say one birth you can have a brown body, the next birth a white body. So why so much attachment to being hindu. The whole I am hindu and I am proud of being that is just a contradiction.)

 

All this contradiction is your vivid imegination, I have not stated any thing about skin color or birth or being proud. Stop parroting as if to say you have realized the self.

I am attached to Hindu dharma, it teaches me how to lead my life from darkness to light, from mortal to immortal (tamso ma joytir gamaya, mrituma amrutam gamaya) that is my good Karma, yes shastra teaches us our birth is based on our karma which is in turn based on our desires.

 

 

Re

(How long have you been hindu? How long will you be Hindu for?)

 

I am not Dharma I follow it, Hindu is not a body it is a way of life, stop this preconcieved ideas drumed in to your head. Follow your dharma I will follow mine.

How long have you been Iskcon how long will you be Iskcon such questions are irrelevent.

 

 

 

Re

(That fact that you think that God can be hindu is just plain silly. Why is it silly to think Krsna is Hindu or hindu is krsna.)

 

This is simply a silly statement.

 

Re

(Read the Bhagavat Gita my friend. You have existed long before you became a hindu.)

 

Yes my friend I do read Bhagvat Gita every day, so did my father and his father. They call us Hindu doing it.

I follow the Hindu dharma, In your eyes you see me as a Hindu, and you twist the words and misconstrue that to mean it is a body.You call it hodge podge to make you feel better.

 

RE

(You are not this body. )

 

Keep telling me that. To realize this is like walking on a double edge sword.

Just Chant

 

Jai Shree Krishna