Was Bush Right After All ??? (To Go to the Middle East and Kick Butt ! )

[theist 1]

 

I would ban cars until the monsters have been ferreted out.

 

 

Yes that is a great idea. The first time I heard it. Everything stops until they are dead and gone.

[krsna 3]

 

*****************************

Don't let them hide in the mosques. Crumble the mosque on their sick heads - do what God wants done.

 

*****************************

 

You second the mood of utter digust for their actions.

Their wickedness deserves such heavy response. Otherwise will we allow their vile nature to conquer?

[Guest guest]

it's time to just kill these rabid dogs.

 

------------

war begets war. ever since the first war of the yuga - 5000-something years ago - this has been going on and on and on and on and on. Nobody seems to realise that as devotees, you have nothing to do with this world, let alone with something like physical designations such as muslim versus Christian. for Jesus tells you to turn the other cheek.

are you ready for the sacrifice jesus went through? follow that example, instead of gwb's

these proposals come from equally rabid dogs. if you want to kill one, go hang yourself.

VdK.

[gHari 0]

VdK, your world is full of murderers and rapists who run rampant unfettered by law while you turn the other cheek. Arjuna should have just given up the battle and disregarded his chariot driver - he should have just turned the other cheek. It seems the elephant is not only disrespectful, but also quite stupid and mundane.

 

[Kulapavana 0]

"Convential forces don't stop nuclear tipped warheads on missles. You must have more than that."

 

lol! duh!!! this is precisely WHY!!!! Iran and Iraq were trying to develop nuclear weapons. did you forget that Israel aquired (illegaly btw.) these weapons first????

 

the rest of your arguments are equally "sound"...

 

 

"I stated my reasons and am still waiting for you to present one. You keep saying they have others but yet you can't name one."

 

bull... I listed the options in my earlier post but you just did not like them.

 

 

[theist 1]

 

war begets war. ever since the first war of the yuga - 5000-something years ago - this has been going on and on and on and on and on. Nobody seems to realise that as devotees, you have nothing to do with this world, let alone with something like physical designations such as muslim versus Christian. for Jesus tells you to turn the other cheek.

are you ready for the sacrifice jesus went through? follow that example, instead of gwb's

these proposals come from equally rabid dogs. if you want to kill one, go hang yourself.

VdK.

 

 

This from someone who on another thread today was recommending a certain translation of the Mahabharata to me?

 

The brahmanas have one duty, the ksatriyas have another.

 

[theist 1]

Ok, we are done with this one. I will declare victory and move on and so will you. Of course only I will be right. /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[Kulapavana 0]

I do not care for personal "victory", honest. in the material sense, I would like you to at least understand the other side of the coin. I really think big time demons manipulate this world in more ways than most people imagine, and I truly hate to see devotees fall for their lies and be used by them.

 

Rakshasas walk this Earth just like they did 5000 years ago.

[Guest guest]

it's time to just kill these rabid dogs.

 

Crumble the mosque on their sick heads - do what God wants done.

 

 

These words don't exactly fit the placid golden face along side them, is that representative of the Golden Avatar of Divine Love Gaura Hari?

 

Somehow I don't remember that precedent in the teachings of Lord Chaitanya. Nityananda Prabhu checked Him when he got a little carried away with Jagai and Madhai, and Mahaprabhu agreed with him. This is the only way they changed and Lord Chaitanya gave this example for fallen souls like us.

Leave the dog kill dog world for those who want it.

Prabhupad came to spread sankirtan not insanity katha.

[gHari 0]

Srimad Bhagavatam 1.17.10-11:<blockquote><center>yasya rASTre prajAH sarvAs

trasyante sAdhvy asAdhubhiH

tasya mattasya nazyanti

kIrtir Ayur bhago gatiH

 

eSa rAjJAM paro dharmo

hy ArtAnAm Arti-nigrahaH

ata enaM vadhiSyAmi

bhUta-druham asattamam

</center>

yasya--one whose; rASTre--in the state; prajAH--living beings; sarvAH--one and all; trasyante--are terrified; sAdhvi--O chaste one; asAdhubhiH--by the miscreants; tasya--his; mattasya--of the illusioned; nazyanti--vanishes; kIrtiH--fame; AyuH--duration of life; bhagaH--fortune; gatiH--good rebirth; eSaH--these are; rAjJAm--of the kings; paraH--superior; dharmaH--occupation; hi--certainly; ArtAnAm--of the sufferers; Arti--sufferings; nigrahaH--subduing; ataH--therefore; enam--this man; vadhiSyAmi--I shall kill; bhUta-druham--revolter against other living beings; asat-tamam--the most wretched.

 

O chaste one, the king’s good name, duration of life and good rebirth vanish when all kinds of living beings are terrified by miscreants in his kingdom. It is certainly the prime duty of the king to subdue first the sufferings of those who suffer. Therefore I must kill this most wretched man because he is violent against other living beings.

 

PURPORT

When there is some disturbance caused by wild animals in a village or town, the police or others take action to kill them. Similarly, it is the duty of the government to kill at once all bad social elements such as thieves, dacoits and murderers. [...] Any living being, if he terrifies other living beings, is a most wretched subject, and the king should at once kill such a disturbing element. </blockquote>

 

In a lecture Srila Prabhupada uncannily echoes the sentiments here:<blockquote><center>klaibyaM ma sma gamaH pArtha

naitat tvayy upapadyate

kzUdraM hRdaya-daurbalyaM

taktvottiSTha parantapa

</center>

Parantapa is, this word, very word, is used that "You are a kSatriya, you are king. Your business is to chastise the mischief mongers. That is your business. You cannot excuse the mischief monger." Formerly the kings were so... The king himself used to judge. A criminal was brought before the king, and if the king thought it wise, he would take his own sword, immediately cut his head. That was the duty of king. Even not many, about hundred years ago in Kashmir, the king, as soon as a thief was caught, he would be brought before the king, and if he is proved that he was a thief, he has stolen, immediately the king will cut off his hands personally, chopped off. Even hundred years ago. So all other thieves warned, "This is your punishment." So there was no thiefing. There was no stealing, no burglary in Kashmir. Even somebody lost something on the road, it will lie down. Nobody will touch it. The order was, king's order was, "If something is lying down on the street uncared for, you cannot touch it. The man who has left it, he would come; he will collect. You cannot take." Even hundred years ago. So this capital punishment is required. Nowadays the capital punishment is excused. Murderers are not hanged. This is all mistake, all rascaldom. A murderer must be killed. No mercy. Why a human killer? Even an animal killer should be immediately hanged? That is kingdom. The king should be so strict.

 

So this sympathy is like Arjuna's sympathy. The sympathy... Now the state is sympathizing with the murderer not to be killed. This is Arjuna. That is hRdaya-daurbalyam. That is not duty. One has to discharge the duty ordered by the superior authority very strictly, without any consideration. So these are weakness of the heart, this kind of sympathy. But ordinary person will not understand. Therefore to understand KRSNa, one requires special senses, special senses, not ordinary senses. Special senses means you have to pluck your eyes and you have to put another eyes? No. You have to purify. Tat-paratvena nirmalam.</blockquote>

 

 

[theist 1]

A better example would be when the kazi tried to put an end to the congregational chanting what was Lord Caitanya's response?

 

Should ksatriya types no longer protect the citizenry? Is that the message you are preaching in the name of Caitanya?

 

Already there was some whacky Black Muslim or some kind of muslim who bombed an Iskcon temple. So should that person not have been stopped or at least punished after the fact? The police should all stop performing their duties and chant? Or should they chant while performing their duties? Please tell me. And I assume if the police should retire then the military should also on the same principle. But is that even practical? Is that even sane?

[theist 1]

 

I really think big time demons manipulate this world in more ways than most people imagine, and I truly hate to see devotees fall for their lies and be used by them.

 

 

What you and some others here fail to underdstand is that we understand big time demons are busy manipulating the world. Believe me that is not a new revelation. Sometimes you have to make a distinction between the lesser of two evils. Or you may have to use a thorn to take out a thorn.

 

You apparently don't perceive the threat these Islamofacists pose. I can certainly see the threat the modern culture poses.

 

[gHari 0]

Although for a much greater offence than murder or rape, Sri Caitanya would have killed Jagai and Madhai as mentioned in the purport to Sri Caitanya-caritamrita Madhya 16.64-66:<blockquote>SrI Caitanya MahAprabhu then told NityAnanda Prabhu, "Please hear Me, O holy man: I now request something of You. Kindly grant My request.

 

"Do not come to JagannAtha PurI every year, but stay in Bengal and fulfill My desire."

 

SrI Caitanya MahAprabhu continued, "You can perform a task that even I cannot do. But for You, I cannot find anyone in GauDa-deza who can fulfill My mission there."

 

PURPORT

Lord Caitanya's mission is to deliver the fallen souls of this age. In this Age of Kali, practically cent percent of the population is fallen. SrI Caitanya MahAprabhu certainly delivered many fallen souls, but His disciples mainly came from the upper classes. For example, He delivered SrIla RUpa GosvAmI, SanAtana GosvAmI, SArvabhauma BhaTTAcArya and many others who were socially elevated but fallen from the spiritual point of view. SrIla RUpa and SanAtana GosvAmIs were situated in government service, and SArvabhauma BhaTTAcArya was the topmost scholar of India. Similarly, PrakAzAnanda SarasvatI was a leader of many thousands of MAyAvAdI sannyAsIs. It was SrIla NityAnanda Prabhu, however, who delivered persons like JagAi and MAdhAi. Therefore, Lord Caitanya says, AmAra ‘duSkara' karma, tomA haite haye. JagAi and MAdhAi were delivered solely by NityAnanda Prabhu's mercy. When they injured NityAnanda Prabhu, Lord Caitanya became angry and decided to kill them with His Sudarzana cakra, but NityAnanda Prabhu saved them from the Lord's wrath and delivered them. In the incarnation of Gaura-NitAi, the Lord is not supposed to kill demons but is supposed to deliver them by preaching KRSNa consciousness. In the case of JagAi and MAdhAi, SrI Caitanya MahAprabhu was so angry that He would have immediately killed them, but NityAnanda Prabhu was so kind that He not only saved them from death but elevated them to the transcendental position. Thus what was not possible for SrI Caitanya MahAprabhu was carried out by NityAnanda Prabhu.</blockquote>

[Kulapavana 0]

Do not dare to compare trash like GW Bush to Lord Chaitanya or even a kshatriya king!!!!! You are like those who ask: what would Jesus drive?

 

first of all: Bush is not a kshatriya and he NEVER took part in any combat - he was flying sorties in and out of the local bars while dodging the draft.

 

the FIRST duty of the kshatriya is to administer justice - and not starting wars. US foreign policy has nothing to do with JUSTICE and everything to do with the so called NATIONAL INTEREST (read: the interest of "special interests" - the real powers behind the throne) - that is acting in the VAISHYA!!! category. When kshatriyas become servants of the vaishyas - they are no longer honorable.

[Kulapavana 0]

"You apparently don't perceive the threat these Islamofacists pose. I can certainly see the threat the modern culture poses."

 

 

perhaps you still remember: US armed and trained THE VERY SAME PEOPLE when they were fighting Russia in Afghanistan (and remember: Russia was actually INVITED to Afghanistan by a legitimate Afghan government?), calling them mujahedeens, the noble FREEDOM FIGHTERS. so now, when the US is the opressor in Iraq they have become "terrorists"? LOL! that is modern culture for you! just like the nazis who called Polish partisans "Banditen"... how very SAD...

 

DO NOT TWIST YOUR TONGUE TO SUIT YOUR NEEDS - thats both dishonest and dishonorable.

 

and as to the threat: US killed more innocent people than your "islamofascists"

[Guest guest]

 

 

In the incarnation of Gaura-NitAi, the Lord is not supposed to kill demons but is supposed to deliver them by preaching KRSNa consciousness.

 

How about emphasizing this part of the purport.

 

In the case of JagAi and MAdhAi, SrI Caitanya MahAprabhu was so angry that He would have immediately killed them, but NityAnanda Prabhu was so kind that He not only saved them from death but elevated them to the transcendental position. Thus what was not possible for SrI Caitanya MahAprabhu was carried out by NityAnanda Prabhu.

 

This is precisely what I was alluding to.

 

In previous times they never wiped out thousands of citizens including women, children, and the aged from a distance.

May I ask what citizens are you taking about, those of the family of man or just your family, your country, your geneology?

Real ksatriyas stand on the battlefield face to face with their opposition, not just dropping a so called 'smart bomb,' hoping they may get their man, out of revenge, bombs don't discriminate, stiff stool about the calateral damage it's all part of our righteous cause heh.

I suppose every one in Iran and Iraq are all guilty by association or nationality or is it faith. I have quite a few Godbrothers and sisters in Iran boys, doing what Prabhupad asked us to do. Will you check their address before the next offensive, so that you only hit the terrorists?

What about the press killed, what about your allies that are shot down by mistake in FRIENDLY fire, (very sophisticated communication) what about shooting released hostages. More nobel kshatriya prizes.

 

All you are doing is fanning more flames of hatred towards you and your country, just as the endless cycle of embittered revenge between the Palestinians and Israelis will breed generations of suicide squads, now you've been sucked further into this perpetual conflict.

My spiritual master once said, "America is coming to swallow the whole World" and now we are starting to see this in different ways they are drawing others into a conflict that simple people don't need or want. Just to massage some maniacs egos, that they are the saviors of the world.

 

This is not the life of the Gaudiya Vaisnava nor the example of all the Acharyas I've known, and served. They are abhored by the slightest violence or even harm to others, they are truly para dukha dukhi, they empathise with others pain. What to speak of mass slaughter, what kind of person feels this sort of vindictiveness.

Guru Maharaj used to say "the poison you chew in others will come into you." He also used to emphasize that 'mercy is above justice' Just as Jesus, teaches to give love in return for hatred. When do you think Jesus meant for us to apply this? Maybe he was one a'those lefty fanatics too. He couldn't be right if he turns the other cheek.

So what are you saying that Moses' eye for an eye, hit for a hit, bomb for a bomb, is the law we should live by, as vaisnavas. That's why Jesus came and Mahaprabhu after him to drag the human race out of this archaic, and barbaric misconception.

 

If it's all right to avenge those that have harmed YOUR people or YOUR country then it must stand that they are also justified in doing the same thing? Of course it can be tit for tat all the way back to Cain and Abel as to who did what first......it had t' be them.

 

This sort of bravado may sound heroic, but just like mr.president i think we can safely say you arn't going to get out on the battle field.

Regarding the Chand Kazi, it is true that he was the first Moslem that opposed the sankirtan party of Mahaprabhu but how was that resolved? Not by blasting them off the face of the Earth .

 

This was Mahaprabhus response.

 

It was at the age of 16 or 17 that he traveled to Gay&#257; with a host to sing the holy name of Hari in the streets and bazaars. This created a sensation and roused different feelings in different quarters. The bhaktas were highly pleased. The sm&#257;rta br&#257;hman&#803;as became jealous of Nim&#257;i Pan&#803;d&#803;ita's success and complained to Chand Kazi against the character of Caitanya as un-Hindu. The Kazi came to &#346;r&#299;v&#257;sa Pan&#803;d&#803;ita's house and broke a mr&#803;da&#324;ga (khola drum) there and declared that unless Nim&#257;i Pan&#803;d&#803;ita ceased to make noise about his queer religion he would be obliged to enforce Mohammedanism on him and his followers. This was brought to Mah&#257;prabhu's notice. He ordered the townspeople to appear in the evening, each with a torch in his hand. This they did and Mahaprabhu marched out with his sankirtan party divided into 14 groups, then on his arrival in the Kazi's house, he held a long conversation with the Kazi and in the end communicated into his heart his Vais&#803;n&#803;ava influence by touching his body. The Kazi then wept and admitted that he had felt a keen spiritual influence which had cleared up his doubts and produced in him a religious sentiment which gave him the highest ecstasy. The Kazi then joined the sa&#324;k&#299;rtana party. The world was astonished at the spiritual power of the Great Lord, and hundreds and hundreds of heretics converted and joined the banner of Vi&#347;vambhara after this affair.

 

It was after this that some of the jealous and low-minded br&#257;hman&#803;as of Kulia picked a quarrel with Mah&#257;prabhu and collected a party to oppose him. Nim&#257;i Pan&#803;d&#803;ita was naturally a soft-hearted person, though strong in his principles. He declared that party feelings and sectarianism were the two great enemies of progress and that as long as he should continue to be an inhabitant of Nadia belonging to a certain family, his mission would not meet with complete success. So he decided to take sanyas.

 

From the Teachings of Caitanya

 

Altho I've probably posted this from Srila Sridhara Maharaj

before, there are some who may not have read it.

 

The Absolute accommodates everything, in Him even the enemy is our friend. The center is everywhere, there is no circumference. In that plane only God can be traced everywhere and He cannot be our enemy.

 

Try to see the environment as friendly, favourable, the opposition is sent from the absolute to take us higher not to take us down, there is no place that God isn't.

The theistic school says, “Absolute” means Absolute Good, everything is fully represented there. The whole is so great that it can accommodate all.

 

Fear is born only through disappointment resulting from lack of harmony. If that does not exist, then there is no place for fear. So how does harmony dissapear? Thru fear.

“Undesirability” is represented in sanskrit as “apprehension” or “fear”, and is regarded as something secondary to the Absolute. But how does it reach and become transformed into perfection? If we can introduce many interests into one common interest then there is harmony, no fear, and all is perfect.

At present we are suffering from the mania of separate interest, only because we have deviated from our common master, our common guardian, have we come to suffer the disease of apprehension. If one master is common to all then no apprehension can arise, we will feel true unity amongst ourselves. If we fall on the ground, then with the help of the same ground we can again stand. So forgetfulness of our guardian is the cause of all the disastrous situations in which we find ourselves. The only way to get out of that disaster is to be reinstated in the idea of common guardianship and that is to be affected by the true sadhus who have not deviated from God- consciousness. With their help we have to appeal to the all-controlling agency, then we can be reinstated in that echelon where we have our master under whose holy feet we are to take shelter. If we can accept this, harmony will again be installed in our lives. So we are always to be conscious of our guardian, the highest harmoniser, and that is true God consciousness.

 

[Guest guest]

<img src="http://instagiber.net/smiliesdotcom/otn/violent/

PANZER.gif">

[theist 1]

When the guest who wants to shower the world with the flowers of Lord Caitanyas mercy and end all wars starts leading kirtans before the cart of Lord Jagganatha down the streets of Fallujah, and all the radical Islamofacists come out and join in then your words will have some meaning. Until then it appears as cheap sloganeering.

 

Kulapavana our conversation on this topic has already ended.

 

 

[Kulapavana 0]

if Kali steals a cow from his neighbor - that is good

if his neighbor steals a cow from Kali - that is bad

[gHari 0]

It is now obvious that this reader has no idea what I have written in this thread. It is best to walk away before they completely bury themselves. Referring to Srila Prabhupada as a rabid dog and recommending that he hang himself is the final absurdity; not to mention placing one's flower-powers over the Bhagavatam's advice.

 

[Guest guest]

Anything to avoid the embarrassment of your leaders boo boos

and blah blahs.

As a nation America should free itself first then it can free others, misuse of independence, just puts a nation back in debt.

 

Mr Stevason I'm trembling in my bones, your threatening ultimatums on the posts you had second thoughts on and deleted doesn't bother me in the least. And I don't need to enter your version of THE Kingdom of God, it has no attraction for me. But i wish you all the best in your divine aspirations.

I very much appreciate Srila Prabhupads version tho, he is my eternal well wisher and beloved guardian.

 

Fear and insecurity leave the heart that love enters.

 

 

 

Regarding sankirtan by the grace of Guru and Gauranga we do the best we can, within our means, if it's not received in one place we go on to the next opendoor. There is no point giving to those who think they already know all the answers.

I will go where my master directs, if I'm capable. There are many places in need at present, I don't think Felujia would be that fertile a preaching field personally, their customs don't accomodate dancing, and singing, it's all a matter of timing tho, as to how we can best serve the Lords will. The value of water is gauged by the degree of need, wherever there is starvation and draught that is the place where appreciation for sankirtan will be found.

 

I beg my leave from this topic, I think I've picked up a virus, my computer is acting strange.

Offering my dandavats at the feet of the honorable devotees wherever they are.

Their footdust is worshipable.

dasanudas

[theist 1]

 

I don't think Felujia would be that fertile a preaching field personally,

 

 

That you can count on. But just wait awhile I'm sure they have plans to bring Fallujah to you.

[gHari 0]

Then maybe we won't recommend the killing of murderers? Does this advice apply also to Srila Prabhupada? To Srila Vedavyasa? Or will you just continue to brush your rude behaviour under the carpet with feigned superiority. Not much integrity as far as I can see. If you do not want my Kingdom of God, then so be it.

 

[Guest guest]

VdK, your world is full of murderers and rapists who run rampant unfettered by law while you turn the other cheek.

 

---------------------------

Sorry, that is not my world. you can speak for yourself, but not for me.

------------------------------

Arjuna should have just given up the battle and disregarded his chariot driver - he should have just turned the other cheek.

---------------------------

Oh great ksatriya, you shall be like Arjuna?

----------------------------

It seems the elephant is not only disrespectful, but also quite stupid and mundane.

----------------------------

You live in bodily consciousness and from that point, you think all to be bad, because they do not agree with you. that is mundane and entirely stupid.

I don't pretend to be a ksatriya, with my tough words against anyone. the pen is mightier than the sword.

in words you all seem to know how to bomb the world into submission. they are but words.

however, I fear that peace cannot come from such fanatic muslim haters, whether jew or amurrikan. the jew is the greatest antisemite of all, by condemning and hating their brothers the Arabs. the arabs that hate jews are equally stupid. stupid fanaticism over a small piece of land, which is uiltimately nobody's but Krsna's

VdK.

 

 

[Guest guest]

Where have I said SP was a rabid dog and should go hang himself?

you are way over the top.

mr stevason you are the rabid dog and should follow this advice. the fact you now write such, is proof enough you twist someone's words to suit your own purpose.

here is the entire quote of the entire post

 

it's time to just kill these rabid dogs.

 

------------

war begets war. ever since the first war of the yuga - 5000-something years ago - this has been going on and on and on and on and on. Nobody seems to realise that as devotees, you have nothing to do with this world, let alone with something like physical designations such as muslim versus Christian. for Jesus tells you to turn the other cheek.

are you ready for the sacrifice jesus went through? follow that example, instead of gwb's

these proposals come from equally rabid dogs. if you want to kill one, go hang yourself.

VdK.

 

where is Srila Prabhupada here?

so stop your falsification too.

VdK.