shambu 0 Report post Posted January 21, 2005 I thought this was maybe an interesting topic for an in-depth discussion: Since bhakti transcends Varnashrama-dharma, could one say that bhakti transcends even Vedic Culture? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted January 21, 2005 yes, bhakti transcends everything - it has zero to do with this any world religion of belief - it is pure love for god - completely unadulterated. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted January 21, 2005 One may follow any Dharma or culture but should pray only to the God to whom he speaks with the language of his Heart. Other robotic devotions are not desirable Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kulapavana 0 Report post Posted January 21, 2005 "could one say that bhakti transcends even Vedic Culture?" yes, you can say that, but then what? without following Vedic culture in your practical daily life you are not even a civilized human being. people should not think that just because they are working to develop bhakti they are not obligated to follow the Vedic Aryan culture. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
theist 1 Report post Posted January 21, 2005 people should not think that just because they are working to develop bhakti they are not obligated to follow the Vedic Aryan culture. What do you mean exactly by the Vedic Aryan Culture? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
shambu 0 Report post Posted January 21, 2005 But to what extent is it possible for people in this day and age to follow Vedic culture? Is it natural? The standards are very high and there are so many do's and don'ts, rituals, etiquettes etc., that hardly anybody can meet the proper standard. The attempt to follow this tends to become somewhat external, and perhaps causes one to become distracted from the actual goal of religion, rather than playing a supportive role in this. Also the danger seems to me to become rather puffed up, instead of humble. Just like in the case of smarta-brahmanas who are so proud of following all the rules of shastra, that they go about feeling like kings of the world or divine incarnations. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
shambu 0 Report post Posted January 21, 2005 Isn't Vedic per definition already "Aryan" by nature? Just a quick remark... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
theist 1 Report post Posted January 21, 2005 The word Äryan is applicable to persons who know the value of life and have a civilization based on spiritual realization. The word Äryan is applicable to persons who know the value of life and have a civilization based on spiritual realization. -Prabhupada Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
theist 1 Report post Posted January 21, 2005 It's hard enough to live a simple life in this age and culture. Maybe we should concentrate on becoming clean honest God seeking people primarily and not worry too much about if we are "Vedic" or not. That would seem to be the essence of a vedic or aryan culture anyway. It's hard enough just getting someone to agree with the idea of not slaughtering animals for food and human babies in the womb. Do we think everyone is going to start taking up all the various ceremonial rites etc. of some "vedic culture"? Seems to me the distilled essence is already there in simple living and high thinking with as much kirtan as one can handle. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted January 21, 2005 The entirity of vedic rites is contained in one utterance of the Names of God. These Names not only completely satisfy the need for religion, they also serve to be the actual purifier that enables one to attain vaisnava qualities, and to strengthen the four pillars of spiritual life, cleanliness, austerity, honesty and mercy. Forcefully following regulations of a religious system will never work independently of utterance of the Holy Names of the Supreme Lord. Harinam is the purifier, not religious rot and routine. hare krsna, ys, mahaksadasa Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kulapavana 0 Report post Posted January 21, 2005 "But to what extent is it possible for people in this day and age to follow Vedic culture? Is it natural? " we need to follow the ESSENCE of Vedic culture, and that seems natural to me. I'm a little tired of devotees saying: "we are Vaishnavas, we dont need to pay attention to the Vedic culture" - THAT is pride. sannyasis who act like kings and vaishyas who think they are the last word in understanding the shastra while making a living in questionable ways. Vedic culture was supremely practical - and that is very much needed in our movement... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
theist 1 Report post Posted January 21, 2005 But please define "vedic culture" more specifically. Unless it is defined specifically in the mind how can we expect it to manifest in the external world? Personally I don't envision any formal vedic culture in the sense of ancient Indian culture and lifestyle becoming widespread. But there are some things we need to grab hold of and then adapt to the culture we live in the best we can. For instance, through introspection and guidance from others we all need to have some grasp on what modes dominate our present nature so that we can dovetail those propensities in Krsna's service. But trying to impose that on society at large seems not only futile by a misdirected activity as far as it distracts from chanting the holy names. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kulapavana 0 Report post Posted January 21, 2005 define all the hundreds of behavioral patterns as given to us by the Puranas and Mahabharata? theistji, you want too much and too easy... /images/graemlins/wink.gif Vedic culture must be studied and analyzed as to how it is to be implemented today. it is certainly not the question IF we need to apply it's principles today, but HOW... starting at the very top, to give you an example, is acting in an HONORABLE (ARYA) way... well, honorable behavior varies for different varnas, so you need to know your varna first... (look at my signature /images/graemlins/smile.gif ) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
theist 1 Report post Posted January 21, 2005 define all the hundreds of behavioral patterns as given to us by the Puranas and Mahabharata? theistji, you want too much and too easy... that's the point Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kulapavana 0 Report post Posted January 21, 2005 yes, this is indeed the land of simple sound bites, simple food, simple desires and simple minds... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
