What is Maya?

[Pankaja_Dasa 1]

 

 

I have some questions regarding Maya, I hope to receive some answers from assembled devotees present. Anyway here I go hold on to your hats. Serious business coming up:

 

1# Doesn't Maya-devi feel ashamed to bewilder somebody who is trying to become Krsna Conscious?

 

2#Can chanting really make Maya go away, if so why doesn't it?

 

3#Why does she test to the limit I mean what exactly is the deal, we are already in a bad situation, can't she at least give us a break?

 

4#Does Maya-devi want we please her, instead of Krsna? Because it seems this way.

 

5#While writing these questions why is Maya-devi not making my computer blow-up into pieces. Because that would mean no association for me, does this mean Maya-devi has some mercy which we don't know about!!!

 

Ok these are actually very serious questions I have, I am just trying to see the humour in it all. Hare Krishna.

 

Any sastric quotes would come in handy if you have them. Lets make this a maya-free thread.

 

[theist 1]

TRANSLATION CC Madhya 22.32

“‘The external illusory energy of Krsna, known as mäyä, is always ashamed to stand in front of Krsna, just as darkness is ashamed to remain before the sunshine. However, that mäyä bewilders unfortunate people who have no intelligence. Thus they simply boast that this material world is theirs and that they are its enjoyers.’

 

PURPORT

The entire world is bewildered because people are thinking, “This is my land,” “America is mine,” “India is mine.” Not knowing the real value of life, people think that the material body and the land where it is produced are all in all. This is the basic principle behind nationalism, socialism and communism. Such thinking, which simply bewilders the living being, is nothing but rascalism. It is due to the darkness of mäyä. But as soon as one becomes Krsna conscious, he is immediately relieved from such misconceptions. This verse is quoted from Çrémad-Bhägavatam (2.5.13). There is also another appropriate verse in Srimad-Bhägavatam (2.7.47):

çaçvat praçäntam abhayaà pratibodha-mätraà

çuddhaà samaà sad-asataù paramätma-tattvam

çabdo na yatra puru-kärakavän kriyärtho

mäyä paraity abhimukhe ca vilajjamänä

tad vai padaà bhagavataù paramasya puàso

brahmeti yad vidur ajasra-sukhaà viçokam

“What is realized as the Absolute Brahman is full of unlimited bliss without grief. That is certainly the ultimate phase of the supreme enjoyer, the Personality of Godhead. He is eternally devoid of all disturbances, fearless, completely conscious as opposed to matter, uncontaminated and without distinctions. He is the principal, primeval cause of all causes and effects, in whom there is no sacrifice for fruitive activities and in whom the illusory energy does not stand.”

This verse was spoken by Lord Brahmä when he was questioned by the great sage Närada. Närada was surprised to see the creator of the universe meditating, and this caused him to think there might be someone greater than Lord Brahmä. While answering the great sage Närada, Lord Brahmä described the position of mäyä and the bewildered living entities. This verse was spoken in that connection.

[theist 1]

From a lecture on CC Madhya 22.31-33

 

Mäyä ca yat, yaya sammohito jéva. So this mäyä, Kåñëa’s mäyä, this illusory energy, external energy, also saw. Vyäsadeva saw. He saw Krsna, apaçyat puruñaà pürëam. He saw the Supreme Personality as well as His mäyä. So mäyä, yad-apäçrayam. Mäyä cannot come before Krsna. Because... Just like the sun. Sunshine, there ignorance or darkness cannot come, cannot approach. So he saw. Vilajjamänayä yasya sthätum ékñä-pathe amuyä. The mäyä is ashamed to come before Krsna because she is entrusted with very thankless task. Mäyä is entrusted by Krsna to take the conditioned souls and take charge of them. And mäyä has taken charge of all us conditioned souls, and her task is to punish, simply beating. So that is a very thankless task. She is discharging the duty entrusted to her by Krsna, but everyone, especially the transcendentalists, oh, they are hating, “Oh, mäyä, mäyä, mäyä.” Nobody will like, transcendentalists, mäyä. Either personalist or impersonalist. But she’s engaged. Just like police. Police is engaged by the state, but nobody likes police. Everyone will criticize police. Thankless task. Because they, unless they become strict, unless they become red-hot iron (?) they cannot execute their duty. That is their way of punishing. But people do not like them. Nobody likes police. You see. Even a police comes all of a sudden here to sit down here to hear us, we’ll suspect, “Oh, he has come with some purpose.” (laughs) It is such a thankless task. Similarly, mäyä is entrusted with thankless task. She cannot approach Krsna, neither she is liked by the conditioned souls.

So here it is said, vilajjamänayä yasya sthätum ékñä-pathe ’muyä. Why? Vimohitä vikatthante. And illusioned by that mäyä, vikatthante, talks like a madman. What is that? Mamäham iti durdhiyaù. The foolish conditioned souls are absorbed in two things: “I am,” and “mine.” “It is my, it is I am.” “I am the lord of all I survey,” or “This is my country, this is my society, this is my body, this is my son, this is my children, this is my home.” This is..., this is the absorption. Although nothing belongs to him—in a moment’s notice everything finished—but still he’s so much vikatthante. “O my society, my country, my father, my mother.” So many, “Mine, mine.” Nothing belongs to him, but he says always, “Mine, mine.” “My” and “I.” This is mäyä.

So this mäyä cannot approach to a person who is always engaged in Krsna consciousness. This is the version of Lord Caitanya, and with evidences. So if we want to be free from the clutches of mäyä, then this is the only path—to become Krsna conscious. There is no other means. Because here it is clearly stated, krsna sürya-sama. Just try to understand the argument. Krsna sürya-sama: Krsna is just like sun. Mäyä andhakära: and the mäyä is just like darkness. It is darkness. So just you cannot imagine where there is sunshine there can be darkness. Similarly, Krsna is just like sun; how can you imagine that Krsna and mäyä can exist together? No. That is not possible. If there is mäyä, there is no Kåñëa. And if there is Krsna, there is no mäyä. This is the test. If we are still in mäyä, that means I’m out of Krsna consciousness. And if I am actually in Krsna consciousness, there is no existence of mäyä. And what is the symptom of mäyä? Mamäham: “My country, my society, my father, my mother, my wife, my children, my property, my position, my, my, my.” There is no end of “my,” although nothing belongs to him. This is called mäyä.

So the more we make progress in Krsna consciousness, this “my” consciousness and “I” consciousness will vanish. Just like while eating, the hunger and weakness will vanish. When you are hungry, you have not eaten in three days, we become weak and we become hungry. So this is natural consequence. And as soon as you begin to eat, this weakness will disappear and the hunger will disappear, and satisfaction will come. There is no doubt about it. Similarly, if these two things cannot stand together, mäyä and Krsna, then if I am in Krsna consciousness then there is no question of mäyä. It may be that I’m not fully Krsna consciousness. That may be. Just like while eating it is not that immediately my hunger is satisfied or immediately I get my lost weakness. Takes little time. Similarly, Krsna consciousness may be a gradual process of advancement, but this is the rule. If we are in Krsna consciousness, there cannot be any existence of mäyä, illusion. That is the test. If I am still in illusion, then I should understand that my business in Krsna consciousness is not progressing. This is the test.

 

------------------

 

Actually we are the ones who are ashamed to stand before Krsna, so we hide in the shadows, cloak ourselves in darkness as we go about trying to imitate Him. It is we who are fearful and ashamed to stand in the revealing light .

[Pankaja_Dasa 1]

 

 

I am saving this, I liked the Cc verse you posted. Thx a lot seriously.

[gHari 0]

When we need correction, she handles it. If our heart is not perfect yet, we would not want to fool ourselves into believing that it is. To go from black to white we will journey through many shades of grey. But it does get better if we care, if we learn from the lessons that are presented to us moment to moment. Know that now everything that happens has to do with perfecting your eternal relationship with Sri Krsna. Not to worry; like Haridham used to say: "If Krsna brings you to it, He will bring you through it".

 

[Guest guest]

The key to moksa is realisation that not only is all about you the maya of your senses, but that you too are part of maya. Once that is realised then you know that the only escape from samsara is being samsara. By letting go of attachment to maya but remaining in maya with the knowledge that all around you is no different to you.

 

Any form of chanting, puja, or ritual if done with jnana is a means of actionless action. Doing out of necessity but holding no value to what you are doing. By becoming monotonous and second nature, one does without thought, one does without attaching value. Doing puja, chanting, or ritual without jnana may achieve you heaven but won't achieve you moksa. An ISKON brahman once said to me when I challenged him over this, that his desire is to be with Krsna and loved by him, not to escape maya and achieve moksa.

You must decide, is it escape from Maya that you seek or is it Krsna's kingdom? Those who ascend to Krsna's paradise do not stay there forever but while there they experience the bliss that is the love of Krsna. Those who escape samsara simply cease to be at the end of their life. Because we too are maya, to exist is to be in samsara. It is not possible to exist with consciousness of self outside of samsara. We still exist but not as you or I, we are simply part of the whole that is brahman. The consciousness of brahman being maya.

 

we are all part of the apple or is the apple part of us?

 

[theist 1]

I think you will find here mostly those of the personalist variety and to them Sankara's conclusion or any derivative thereof is actually painful for them to contemplate.

 

In the beginning one wants to escape maya and suffering. Then one may want to enter into Krsna's kingdom to enjoy with Him but finally these devotees will be happy that Krsna is enjoying their service rather they are in the material world or spiritual world.

[jayaisvara 0]

When a devotee achieves liberation, what happens to him then? Does the devotee continue service from a liberated platform? I am assuming that the devotee does not have a material body but is liberated.

[theist 1]

 

When a devotee achieves liberation, what happens to him then? Does the devotee continue service from a liberated platform? I am assuming that the devotee does not have a material body but is liberated.

 

 

Liberated plaform means the devotee knows himself as the eternal servitor of the Lord. The devotee may or may not have a bodily manifestion visible to us in this world. But even if he does it is not material because it is totally engaged in Krsna's service. The devotee does not take birth because of any karmic necessity to do so. But in the body or out of the body he is liberated.

 

Krsna's service is liberation. We do not serve Krsna to become liberated at which time the service stops. We practice service until it becomes perfect in love and then we really love and serve Krsna.

[theist 1]

 

When a devotee achieves liberation, what happens to him then? Does the devotee continue service from a liberated platform?

 

 

As will be seen in Bhagavad-gétä, actual devotional service begins after liberation. After one is liberated, when one is situated in the Brahman position (brahma-bhüta [sB 4.30.20]), one’s devotional service begins (samaù sarveñu bhüteñu mad-bhaktià labhate paräm). purport excerpt Bg 9.2

[jayaisvara 0]

It is said that Hari nama awards liberation. So with that liberation, if you keep singing, then you will eventually attain His lotus feet right?

[krsna 3]

Q: -- What is Maya?

 

 

A:by Srila Bhaktisiddhanta --

 

The derivative meaning of maya is what is measurable. Bhagavan is the Lord of maya; He cannot be measured.

Where there is attempt to measure God, there is maya and not God.

'Ma ' means 'not' and 'ya ' means 'what',

i.e., 'what is not God', is maya.

 

The 'maya' as said in the Shrimad Bhagavatam is not like the Satan in the Christian theology, a separate entity from God, altogether another entity.

According to the Bhagavata school, maya is in Bhagavan (God) in the condemned state [7] in order to award condign punishment on the atomic sentience (i.e. jivas) controlled by maya.

In the Gita God has said [8]: "Earth, water, fire, air, sky, the mind, intelligence and egoism - these constitute My separate inferior potency, whereas other than this is My superior potency constituting the jivas by which is supported the universe."

This inferior potency is the maya potency.

 

This inferior potency has been stupefying the jivas that are apathetic towards God since before the beginning of time and causing misunderstanding in them, sometimes assuming the form of 'twenty-four items of entity' of Kapila, (the originator of the Sankhya System), sometimes as the 'atom' of Kanada (of the Vaiseshika System), sometimes also as Jaimini's principle of 'elevation' (in the Purva Mimamsa System), sometimes again as the 'sixteen objects' of Gautama (in the Nyaya System), sometimes as 'superhuman power and absolute oneness with God' of Patanjali (of the Yoga System), and sometimes as the pretence of search after Brahman (of the Shankar School).

[Pankaja_Dasa 1]

 

 

I don't care about moksa.

[Guest guest]

Dear friend, i like your understanding of Moksha. Actually, we are in the Maya samsara. But truth is Krishna, knowing about him and also i can say knowing about yourself. You are the part of HIM. But your are seeing it and feeling it your are the different from him that is only "Maya". Actual Maya, we taste becos of HIM.(Its there in Gita)After sensing of Maya, How much control you have on yourself and how much near you see HIM, and feel HIM, makes and teaches you about YOURSELF and the whole about HIM. Then, you leave this Maya Jagath and reach him completely, that is Moksha. Some of Mahathma get moksha before death too.They may not have again birth to learn.

[Guest guest]

HE, Krishna is the one that is called by JAGANNATAKA SUTRADHARI. We are all acting in his movie as in like actors and also feeling it like its real. This role is not so simple and we have to go back to our own place and reach him. If we mess up hear our trip will be tiresome and troblesome. So, we should have the knowledge of this Maya and Samsara nataka and give nice admirable knowledge to our friends and finally go back and try to reach God in our own way, which is you feel to go by (flight,boat,train or bus or walk).That is your own choice. By knowing about you and about him and also YOU IN HIM AND WHOLE HIM IN YOU makes your travel easier and actually i can say you get the map and ticket to Moksha.