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Hare Krishna Dandabats


I have a very serious question to ask all devotees present. Is it of the utmost importance to in the beggining of devotional life to have Awe and Reverence of Krishna.


What is the fine line between saying 'I love God' and being over familiar. I.e making vows and being offensive. Because this then makes you think or may think esp. to me. Krishna is now my best friend. Any views?

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I think it is ok to feel Krishna is your best friend, but it is important to remember that that doesn't mean you are suddenly above the other bhaktas. Krishna relates to all His devotees with overwhelming love, and yes familiarity too. If you feel He is your best friend, that is great and the more you think of Him that way the more you will remember Him and the easier it will be to think of Him. Because if you think of Him in "awe and reverance" only, but not in this familiar way, you might be afraid to approach Him, thinking you are perhaps too sinful or some other thing. When you think of Him as friend, etc. then the relationship is the same but more intimate. You can tell Him everything and He will stick with you no matter what. But He feels that way about ALL the bhaktas. The important thing is to feel "Krishna, the greatest Person in the whole Universe, is my best friend" and at the same time "I am lower than the straw in the street." I think that is not such an easy thing, and we need Krishna's grace to help us acheive that feeling. It is certainly not humanly possible, but through the Lord's grace of course it is quite possible. /images/graemlins/smile.gif

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I am glad the posing is now hinting at some sincerity. First know Krsna's unknowable greatness, otherwise you will never be thinking of Him, just His shadow, just a trivial mental construct, just an offense. Don't worry about how to pose as a devotee - how to feel, getting all the words and affectations to perfect the pose. Love comes naturally, but first comes sincerity. Without complete humility and awe and reverence, Krsna is just not in the equation - it is all ego fantasy, self-aggrandizement. The reality is - He is great beyond our conception. Start with reality. Reach for reality and the humility and surrender it brings.



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to the above two posts. Yes Krsna is my best friend as He is to everyone but am I His friend?


If not then how to become His friend? It will help if one of His already established friends introduces us as his friend and then Krsna may say "Any friend of my friend is a friend of mine".


So we all say that we accept that Prabhupada is Krsna's friend. But are we Prabhupada's friend? If not already thus established we then should try to become the friend of someone who is Prabhupada's friend to gain some entrance into that circle.


This is very natural. Nothing exceedingly mystical about it. No need for secret handshakes and more than just arcane rituals. Friendship is more than just that, it's personal.


A friend helps his friend in a time of need or with a project that is very important to them. Prabhupada has shown a need to push on Krsna Consciousness. Increase and increase, into every corner. This is his only project. Other than that he has no needs or ambitions.


So to become Krsna's friend we must serve the interest of His friends. That is also His only need.


There is no artifical way into Krsna rasa. No need to try and jump into SB tenth canto. Krsna will attract us in if it's to be. There is a saying that no one can take the Kingdom of God by force.


I can't even recognize Krsna in sunlight so why should I assume I can find Him behind some bush in Vrndavan?


Presently,somewhere behind the tilak, beads, dhoti and inscense I exist in a sewer like whirlpool of envy towards the Supreme Lord. I dare to challenge Him and doubt Him. I am in dire need of a heavy shot of awe and reverence.


Lord, please have mercy.

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It is all His grace. If you feel anything for Him, it is not because you are good, but because He has had mercy on you.


We worship His devotees that have already become attached to His lotus feet. But even those great devotees are very humble. And rightly so, because we can always increase in bhakti. Bhakti is ever-growing, so we can always love Him more. /images/graemlins/smile.gif


Our devotion to Him is not the devotion we have earned, but what He wants to give. Even the most sinful person can begin to love- one need only beg Sri Krishna to bestow some love in the heart...


Jaya Sri Krishna

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It wasn't me. I met this Bhakta on-line who kinda amazed me he started to talk about this which got me thinking. I found a good devotee contact, I am not giving his name out but, his father and mother are Vaishnava's. And he seems to have good FAITH. Anyway any verses about this would help.


Also is Surrendering maybe made easy with Awe and Reverence? Sounds to me theres a link /images/graemlins/confused.gif

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Awe and reverence are natural outcomes of knowledge. When you have knowledge of God, then you cannot help but be in awe, and if you have awe of God and do not blame God for your suffering, then naturally you will have reverence.


So it is the natural outcome of gaining knowledge of God.


From Bhaktivinoda:


"In proportion as the hesitant, reverential, serving disposition of the madhyam-bhagavata is gradually developed, by the practice of pure service, into one of -subserviency to the inhabitants of Vraja in their unconventional performances of the highest Loving-services of Sri Krishna, such hesitation and distance are supesceded by growing confidence and proximity to the Object of one's highest Love. Thereby the spiritual vision is perfected, in conformity with the natural capacity of an individual, and he is enabled to realize the full function of his specific spiritual self."


What he is saying is that the awe and reverential serving disposition will be superseded by growing confidence and proximity and this is will be naturally proportionate to the service of a resident of vraja.


In other words it is only natural to be reverential and awestruck at first. But that is then eliminated and a more natural relationship will develop, as you develop your intimate relationship with Radha Krishna's intimates. They serve as the template of what is acceptable behavior.


He calls the service of those close to Radha Krishna "unconventional". This means that their service will appear to go against the accepted norms, to be something unexpected, i.e very very intimate.


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Stages and Varieties of Faith


by Srila Thakur Bhaktivinode


People in various countries on various continents have a wide variety of natures. Although their principal nature is only one, their secondary characteristics are many—you will not find any two people in the world who have identical secondary qualities. Since even twins born of the same womb have some difference in form and quality, can one expect that people born in different countries can ever have exactly the same qualities? Different countries have different water, air, mountains, forests, and different eatables and clothing. Because of this, the people of these places have naturally developed different physiques, complexions, customs, clothing and food. Similarly, people’s mentalities differ. Thus various people’s ideas of God, though being basically similar, will differ in secondary details. When men in different places surpass the uncivilized stage, they then step by step come to the civilized stage, then the inquisitive stage, the moral stage and finally the devotional stage. In the civilized stage differences will arise in language, in the inquisitive stage differences in dress, in the moral stage differences in food, and in the devotional stage differences in mentality. This gives rise to differences in the mode of worship of God. Considered objectively, there is no harm in secondary differences. If there is agreement concerning the essential nature of God and his worship, there should be no obstacle in attaining the same result. Thus Mahaprabhu has taught that we should instruct everyone to worship the pure form of the Lord, but at the same time we should not criticize others’ modes of worship.5




Five Types of Differences Between Religions


Because of the above reasons, we see the following differences amongst the religions of different countries:


1) Difference in teachers — acaryabheda


2) Difference in the worshiper’s mentality and consequent expression of reverence — upasakera manovrtti o bhajana-anubhava-bheda.


3) Difference in the method of worship — upasanar pranalibheda


4) Difference in the conceptions and conventional actions concerning the object of worship — upasya-tattvera sambandhe bhava o kriyabheda


5) Differences in God’s names and teachings due to linguistic differences — bhasa-bhedanusare nama o vakyadi-bheda.


1) Acarya-bheda

Differences in Spiritual Teachers


Thus people in some places give respect to the rsis, in other places they respect preachers like Muhammad, etc. In other countries they respect Jesus and other religious souls, and in many other places of the world people give respect to other various wise men. It is imperative that the people of each country give proper respect to their native saints. Although one may believe that the teachings given by a saintly person of one’s own country are superior to the teachings of the saints of all other countries, still one should not try to establish and preach such controversy in other countries. No good will come to the world from such preaching.


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What about this? Or am I getting ahead of myself...



"Knowing My opulences, the whole world looks upon Me with awe and veneration. But devotion made feeble by such reverence does not attract Me.



After His appearance, Lord Krsna thought that He had not distributed the transcendental personal dealings with His devotees in dasya, sakhya, vatsalya and madhurya. One may understand the science of the Supreme Personality of Godhead from the Vedic literatures and thus become a devotee of the Lord and worship Him within the regulative principles described in the scriptures, but one will not know in this way how Krsna is served by the residents of Vrajabhumi. One cannot understand the dealings of the Lord in Vrndavana simply by executing the ritualistic regulative principles mentioned in the scriptures. By following scriptural injunctions one may enhance his appreciation for the glories of the Lord, but there is no chance for one to enter into personal dealings with Him. Giving too much attention to understanding the exalted glories of the Lord reduces the chance of one's entering into personal loving affairs with the Lord. To teach the principles of such loving dealings, the Lord decided to appear as Lord Caitanya.

__ http://caitanyacaritamrta.com/adi/3/17/en1

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I may be wrong, but isn't vaidhi-bhakti performed in the mood of reverance, and Raganuga-bhakti in the mood of sweetness. We as begginers have to practice vaidhi with our sight firmly fixed on the goal of sweetness.


As we practice with complete sincerity, then the change in moods will fructify within our heart, due the mercy of Sri Guru. There will come a time when sweetness prevails as we get closer towards the goal.

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others say that those who are well established in intimate rasa with the Lord are our objects of service. Not imitation but service.


And in time:



As we practice with complete sincerity, then the change in moods will fructify within our heart, due the mercy of Sri Guru. There will come a time when sweetness prevails as we get closer towards the goal.



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others say that those who are well established in intimate rasa with the Lord are our objects of service. Not imitation but service.




The feeling should be natural and not forced. At the same time, once the feeling starts to rise, we should follow the example of those who came before. That is like learning from the past acharyas.

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Hare Krsna Prabhus, Dandavat pranams,glories to Srila Prabhupada.


With so much emphasis on relationship to the Lord Krsna isn't this skipping a heart beat over the one that can deliver the sentiments of awe and reverance namely Srila Prabhupada,Jagat Guru or other sincere bonifide spiritual master in disciplic succession.


thanks in advance for perspicacious reply

ever felicitate in the dust of the feet of aspiring Vaisnavas...


gopijana das...

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With so much emphasis on relationship to the Lord Krsna isn't this skipping a heart beat over the one that can deliver the sentiments of awe and reverance namely Srila Prabhupada,Jagat Guru or other sincere bonifide spiritual master in disciplic succession.



Your right I didn't see it. But maybe some others have different perspective. You must have learnt this from your Gurudeva sounds like your repeating something you heard /images/graemlins/wink.gif

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Hare Krsna Pankaja das, agtSP.please accept obeisances,


I have some difficulty with, as you said "some persons may have different opinions" I was under the impression the spiritual forum was "spiritual topic and conversation" through realized study and application.


That, to my unlearned, uneducated self, means "following the Acharyas explanations of topic regarding Krsna consciousness, in this case "awe and reverance," and then applying said information to everyday life.

This is accomplished by pumsam gatim mrgayatam iha yoga-margair...acting by dictation of Krsna-caitya within and from without by the spiritual master.sb.3.15.45


If we as aspiring Vaisnavas do not concoct some method then having faith is the order of the day...non ?


To develop personal relationship with Their Lordships Sri Sri Radha Krsna there are imperatives outlined in sastra to being realized in order to have the relationship develop to a personal level.First knowing who it is we are trying to serve and express love to and for what reasoning.That is the point of realization.

sb.2.1.10 "first step in God realization, progress depends on mercy of spiritual master-submissive inquiries and service attitude.Both the spiritual master and the disciple must be bonifide."


Of course the process accentuated by Sri Sri Caitanya Nityanada is the continuous chanting of Hare Krsna telling everyone without discrimination, because the chanting is ahaituki-without reason,even if illiterate the transcendental knowledge is revealed because of devotional service ! due to full faith, akuto-bhaya-doubtless and fearless,entrance is guarenteed.


Elsewise if we fabricate opinions...akalpah svanga-cestayam

"one who does not take heed of these indications of sufferings in human existance is said to be undoubtedly commiting suicide.sb.3.31.9


Without personal motive we can develop "unflinching faith in the lotus feet of the Lord,as well as in the spiritual master,import can be revealed.sb4.24.52


yasya deve parabhaktir "unto those great souls who have implicit faith....we can satra-caksuh..see through the eyes of sastra.


It seems a little elementary, but faith while chanting is the key to success in the execution of bhakti yoga. That will enable final surrender at the time of death.


I hope this meets you well in health and perspicacious in your Krsna consciousness and endeavors Pankaja prabhu,


Oh by the by, in answer to your query my Gurudeva is His Divine Grace Srila Prabhupada...and yes it sounds like something I heard from him, from his books and from the heart. In a dis-eased state( Hep C & liver cancer) I am forced to follow or be dragged either way It suits me just fine at 51 years of age, nearing the end of life.

I will never be able to repay the magnitude of debt to our Srila Prabhupada. I can only pray that those that have the good fortune to serve in what ever capacity, do so without hesitation. Because, "One who hesitates is lost". as well in closing,... "on the day of judgement,we shall not be asked what we have read,but what we have done"..-Thomas Kempis-

In most cases many devotees read Srila Prabhupada's books for practicum, the real test will be "what have we as disciples done" living by exemplary standards, as the Acaryas do.



ever felicitate in the dust of the feet of Vaisnavas,

yours in service...


gopijana das





















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Hare Krishna AGTSP!


have some difficulty with, as you said "some persons may have different opinions" I was under the impression the spiritual forum was "spiritual topic and conversation" through realized study and application.


Ouch what I meant was more different views to make this topic more understandable for me. Sorry for this. I should have said "Maybe others can lend a hand to make me understand this more".


From what you said and what others have, basically you are saying to develop Awe and Reverence you have to follow Guru. FIRST point that we realize is having Awe and Reverence, Guru mercy.


I am kinda trying to think more deeply about subjects, Prabhupada said scrutinizingly study subjects i.e. Gita. So could say that's what I am trying to do. Build my faith.


I thank you for your reply. Hope you participate in the forum. I am your humble servant. Any interactive prasadam needed I'm the Bhakta.





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I don't know if this answers your question but I just found this quote in The Journey of Self-Discovery.


"This eagerness is required. We must be very, very, eager to see Krsna. Many gopis who were forcibly stopped from going to Krsna lost their lives because of their great feelings of seperation. So this eagerness is wanted; then you can see God. Whether you are lusty or a thief or a murderer or whatever it may be - somehow or other you must develop this eagerness, this desire: "I must see Krsna." Then Krsna will be seen."


"The first thing Krsna is looking for is how eager you are to see Him. Krsna will respond. If you are actually eager to see Krsna - whether you are lusty, or you want to steal His ornaments, or some way or other you have become attracted to Krsna - then it is sure your efforts will be successful."





"When both science and religion become less dogmatic and more tolerant of criticism, philosophy will then begin to achieve unity in the intelligent comprehension of the universe" - The Urantia Book




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The urantia book is not part of the Vedas so the definitions of science and religion in that particular book would fall in the category of mundane translation.

The dictionary translates from latin "religion...religio-supernatural constraint,sanction,religious practice.Commitment or devotion to religious faith or observance. In His Grace Srila Prabhupada's books there are 3925 references to the word religion according to authoritative Vedic referances.


One example of this is in the introduction of the Bhagavad-Gita"As it is".."religion conveys the idea of faith,and faith may change.One may have faith in particular process,and he may change this faith and adopt another,but "Sanatana-Dharma"(religion as defined by revealed scipture) refers to that activity which cannot be changed.


In regards to science...from latin scientia-having knowledge, the Sansrit definition is closer to actual terms -Chyati-he cuts off, which is what the spiritual master does by giving one knowledge, he helps aspirants to cut through the material conditioning with the torch of knowledge.. but again the latin comes close to help understand the action of knowledge...scindere-to split or shed, a state of knowing: knowledge as distinguished from ignorance or misunderstanding. There are 7528 references to the word science in the vedic texts Srimad Bhagavatam, Srimad Bhagavad-Gita etc. translated by His Grace Srila Prabhupada.


Krsna consciousness is not a religion in so much it is actually a science...the science of the soul proper. Bhakti-Yoga. Again I direct your attention to the introduction of the Srimad Bhagavad-Gita preface..."This knowledge constitutes a great science,and each and every living being has to hear it for his own interest."


In the sciptures of Srimad Bhagavad-Gita and Srimad Bhagavatam the sincere student is cautioned to not jump over the expert guidance of the spiritual master and try to understand the intimate pastimes and instuctions given by the Lord. Rather to seek out and accept direction from one who has seen the truth.ie.the spiritual master, thereby guaranteeing success in spiritual advancement and enlightenment.


Krsna Himself advises therefore... Bg. 18.57: cetasa sarva-karmani, mayi sannyasya mat-parah... buddhi-yogam upasritya, mac-cittah satatam bhava- "In all activities just depend upon Me and work always under My protection. In devotional service, be fully conscious of Me."


In the purport to this verse it is clarified "One should act accoring to the order of Krsna. This is a very important point. That order of Krsna comes through disciplic succession from the spiritual master. Therefore the spiritual masters order should be taken as the prime duty of life. If one gets a bona fide spiritual master and acts according to his direction, then his perfection of life in Krsna consciousness is guaranteed."


It is commendable that you quote Journey of Self-Discovery encouraging persons to be eager for the Lord Krsna, but as with any study it is recommended to learn ABC's before taking graduate study. In this case take the opportunity to read Srimad Bhagavad-Gita, Srimad Bhagavatam, then progress to the graduate study of Caitanya Caritamrta. In most cases it becomes a life time of reading and practicum then in application of Krsna consciousness in ones life.


In the Srimad Bhagavatam the chapter entitled "Entangled in Fruitive Activities" verse-- Sb.3.32.19. nunam daivena vihata, ye cacyuta-katha-sudham, hitva srnvanty asad-gatah, purisam iva vid-bhjah...the purport states, "there are so many nonsensical literatures, stories, and books of speculative philosophy. Materialistic persons are very interested in reading such literatures, but when they are presented with genuine books of knowledge like Srimad Bhagavatam, Bhagavad-Gita, Visnu purana or other sciptures of the world, such as the Bible and Koran, they are not interested."


Good luck in your life, I hope this meets you well in health and perspicacsious in your spiritual endeavors.


ever felicitate in the dust of the feet of Vaisnavas


gopijana das.....


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Is it alright to accept the Lord Jesus Christ in the heart as a spiritual master? I have great respect for Srila Prabhupada but I don't have the discipline to chant 16 rounds a day so he wouldn't accept me anyway. I still like mundane activities like playing golf etc. but if I ever have any success in golf I will give all the credit to Krishna.

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Oh dear!


You know, you don't have to chant 16 rounds a day for Krishna to accept and love you! No way!


Try to do one a day. Even if you don't succeed in that, Krishna still appreciates that you tried. /images/graemlins/smile.gif


Don't expect to be "perfect" over night! It takes time. Krishna knows this, and so should you. Take it slow, but don't give up! /images/graemlins/smile.gif


Nothing wrong with doing "mundane activities" as long as they are not against dharma. /images/graemlins/tongue.gif Yes, it sounds like you have the right idea. Just keep thinking of Krishna, and you are fine. /images/graemlins/smile.gif Even playing golf, it doesn't really matter.


Hey, if you say Krishna's name six times for each of the eighteen holes in golf, you have 108 names of Krishna!


One before you hit the ball, one after, four while walking to get it (or hitting it again with the club) one while bending down to pick it up and one while standing. /images/graemlins/smile.gif

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Yeah I chant all the time when I am playing golf but I don't keep track of how many times I chant and I don't say the mantra in any organized way. Sometimes I just say Hare Krishna or just Hare Rama but I rarely say the whole mantra Hare Krishna, Hare Krishna, Krishna, Krishna, Hare Hare Hare Rama, Hare Rama, Rama, Rama, Hare Hare. I am good at the regulative principles however and being around golfers a lot I have to do a lot of dodging when it comes to meat eating and drinking intoxicants. A lot of golfers eat meat and drink alcohol and I avoid prolonged association with people that do that stuff. Anyways I appreciate your kind words of encouragement.

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I mean, just don't be too hard on yourself. Krishna is very merciful. /images/graemlins/smile.gif He doesn't expect a complete metamorphosis overnight. /images/graemlins/smile.gif I think He will definitely take care of you no matter what, and since you are trying to do all these things, I'm sure He will appreciate it very much.


I feel like the more we realize His kind nature, the more we will want to be with Him (and we all know that desire is a helpful one, /images/graemlins/smile.gif )

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I have some quotes somewhere from Hari-bhakti-vilasa that chanting within the mind is very good. But its very difficult to do it. So Srila Haridasa Thakura taught to chant out loud specifically.


Your chanting but if your looking for a cop out to serve Lord Jesus and not do anything then your surely kidding yourself. You know it and I know it.

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Pankaja, not everyone is able to chant 64 rounds a day like you! /images/graemlins/wink.gif


Most of us have to start somewhere. Just like learning gymnastics, you have you start from learning to do a sommersault first.


If somebody showed you the whole uneven bars routine on the first day and asked you to please repeat it immediately, you would probably drop the class.


So, don't drop the class. Just keep practicing your sommersaults and learning new exercises, and I'm damn sure you'll be able to do the uneven bars eventually.

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