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Durga is identical to Krishna as told by Jiva Goswami

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Durga is identical to Krishna, as told by Jiva Goswami



Durga is also described in Narada-pancaratra, in the following conversation of Sruti and Vidya:


Durga is the supreme goddess. She is an incarnation of the Supreme Personality of Godhead. She is the transcendental potency of the Lord. She is manifested from the form of Lord Maha-Vishnu.


Simply by understanding her one immediately attains the Supreme Personality of Godhead. It is not otherwise.


Durga is the personal potency of Lord Krishna, and therefore she is Lord Krishna Himself. For this reason Durga should not be considered manifested from a portion of the Lord's illusory potency Maya. This fact is confirmed by the following statement of the Nirukti:


Even is one continually worships her, Durga is still difficult to understand.


In the Sammohana Tantra, Durga herself declares:


I am Durga. I possess all virtues. I am not different from Sri Radha, the eternal, supreme goddess of fortune.


She is identical with Gokula's queen Sri Radha, who possesses a great treasure of love for Krishna. By her grace the Supreme Personality of Godhead, the master of all living entities, is easily understood.


Sometimes Goddess Durga is also described as the supreme controller. This is also correct because there is no difference between the potencies and Lord Krishna, the master of all potencies.

This is confirmed by the following words of the Gautamiya Tantra:


Krishna is Durga. Durga is Krishna. One who sees that they are different will not become liberated from the cycle of repeated birth and death."


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Who wrote the above?


Its seems a devotee of Durga compiled these quotes.


Praying to Durga and Krishna is not the same.


I appreciate your click/paste but thats surely not the full story being said.



Durga, worshiped by the people of this mundane world, is the Durga described above. But the spiritual Durga, mentioned in the mantra which is the outer covering of the spiritual realm of the Supreme Lord, is the eternal maidservant of Krsna and is, therefore, the transcendental reality whose shadow, the Durga of this world, functions in this mundane world as her maidservant. (Vide the purport of sloka 3.)

__ http://brahmasamhita.com/5/44/en1 {Purport-extract}


Maybe shed some light on this Krsnaji /images/graemlins/grin.gif




Caitanya Mahaprabhu, as naughty boy, approached them. "Oh, my dear sister, what you are doing? Oh, you have brought so many nice things. Give it to Me, and Lord Siva will be very much pleased. Oh, you are worshiping Durga? She is My maidservant and Lord Siva is a great devotee of Me. So you please offer Me all these things; they will be satisfied. You don't require to offer separately."

__Lord Caitanya Play Told to Tamala Krsna, August 4, 1969, Los Angeles

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Sri Krsna-bhakti-ratna-prakasa

by Srila Raghava Gosvami


Their forms are not composed of material elements. Their forms are full of bliss. They are the single Supreme Spirit, manifested as two for the knowledge of the devotees.


The wise know that as a spark is one with the fire, so the potency and the master of potencies are one...



This is also described in the Govinda-Vrndavana-sastra, where Lord Krsna says to Balarama:


"My beloved Radhika is the form of My three transcendental potencies. As I am beyond the touch of matter, so is She, whose form is My potency.



Manifest in three forms, I am spiritual, My form is beyond the touch of the three modes of matter. I am the master of everything, and She is the mistress of this master of everything. She is said to be the kriya-sakti. She has the same sweetness as the other two saktis."


That Radha is manifested from half of Lord Krsna’s form, and that She is the personification of all transcendental potencies is described in the Sammohana-tantra, where Narada Muni prays:


"O wonderfully opulent one, O one even Brahma, Siva, and all the demigods can approach, who are You? You never touch the path of the great yogis meditation.


"The potencies iccha-sakti, jnana-sakti and kriya-sakti, are tiny parts of parts of the Supreme Personality of Godhead.


"Whatever inconceivable potencies are the property of the Supreme Personality of Godhead, Lord Visnu, the handsome master of all potencies, they are all the expansions of your expansions."


In this way it may be concluded that all potencies of the Lord are manifested from Sri Radha

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From Jiva Goswami's Krsna Sandarbha:


"Gokula, the supreme abode and planet, appears like a lotus flower that has a thousand petals. The whorl of that lotus is the abode of the Supreme Lord, Krsna. This lotus-shaped supreme abode is created by the will of Lord Ananta.


The whorl of that transcendental lotus is the realm wherein dwells Krsna. It is a hexagonal figure, the abode of the indwelling predominated and predominating aspect of the Absolute. Like a diamond, the central supporting figure of self-luminous Krsna stands as the transcendental source of all potencies. The holy name consisting of eighteen transcendental letters is manifested in a hexagonal figure with six fold divisions.


The whorl of that eternal realm Gokula is the hexagonal abode of Krsna. Its petals are the abodes of gopas who are part and parcel of Krsna, to Whom they are most lovingly devoted and are similar in essence. The petals shine beautifully like so many walls. The extended leaves of that lotus are the garden-like dhama, i.e. spiritual abode of Sri Radhika, the most beloved of Krsna



After the description of the internal abode of Sri Krsna, which is the whorl of the lotus flower known as Goloka, there is a description of the petals situated about that abode. Those petals are the abodes of the cowherd residents of Goloka, who are all relatives and friends of Sri Krsna...


On this lotus flower of Goloka Vrndavana are many petals known as 'patrani sriyam', the many gardens which are abodes of Srimati Radharani and the gopis. Where these petals join the whorl of the Goloka lotus flower, the paths of Goloka are situated, and the extensions of these petals are the places of the cow-pastures of Goloka. In this way the different parts of the lotus flower of Gokula Vrndavana are described."

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Shri Durga has again 1000 names and each represent Her forms (ie) Lord's energy again. Of these thousand forms, as quoted in Lalitha Sahasranama, each one has different purpose and power. The highest is non-different from Shriman Narayana Himself that we pray as Mahalaxmi or Shri Radhe. It is this form that the Gopikaa's, Rukmini Devi were offering prayers to reach Shri Krishna. Shri Rama was also offering the 100 Neelkamal (BLue lotus) to this form which He did primarily did to make people understand that Shri Durgae is non-different from Him.

When He was searching for 100 neelkamal to offer Her in His worship, He could get only 99 of them and for the 100th one He tried using His own eye since they resembled lotus flower. When Rama poked His eye for this, Shri Durga appeared in front of Him with Her eyes bleeding and asked Rama why He was hurting Her, since She was not different from Him.


While there are many lower forms of Durga too in different names, that are prayed by different classes of people and some forms are prayed even in tantric world and those are representations of Durga, but not the full strength actual Shri Durga Shakti married to Shiva.

I am not sure, how many of you are aware of Mookaambika, which represents all the three powers namely Mahalaxmi, Mahashakthi and Mahasaraswathi. She is also worshipped as Lalithambika or Kathyayani.

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Does that then make Lord Siva, Lord Sri Krishna's brother-in-law?


I think i'd better explain.


Subadra is Krishna sister. Durga is material form of dearest to Krishna Srimati Radharani. So the form of Subadra is spiritual {Yoga-Maya} where as Durga is {Maha-Maya}. So does not mean Durga is sister of Sri Radha.?


I hope I am right on this. But this is so confucing. I would like an explanation {with a cut/paste}!


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In the most broadest sense, Sree Hari is everything and Shiva and Durga are His energies to perform the material world function. For our convenience sake for a common man to understand all this kind of brother inlaw, sister relationships were tagged. The forms of Lord dont belong to our human categories of relationship. Sree Hari can be Durga, Radha, Laxmi, Saraswathi, Shiva, Krishna, Narayana or any form He wants. Sree Hari is Shree Krishna, Shree Krishna is Shree Hari and everything is Him. No confusion.


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“The teachers who are knowers of the truth say that since it gives divine knowledge and destroys sin, it is called dIkSA."



The relevant aspect of diksa is the imparting of divya jnana, by that, sin is desroyed. i.e Sin or Karmic entanglement is finished...to some degree. After all we all know from experience that all karma or sinning and sinfull reaction, is not completely destroyed if someone has received diksa. The concept is that Karmic entanglement is manifest for the purpose of purifying the jiva, once the jiva receives diksa, then his/her journey of samsara is finished, the jiva has entered into the end stage of material existence.




"Therefore, paying obeisance to the guru and offering him one’s all, one should receive vaiSNava-mantra-dIkSA preceded with proper procedures.”



Therefore=since, in light of, should, etc.


One should finish the process and surrender to the Guru, the receiving of the mantra with proper procedures is part of the process of surrender. It is part of the continuum of receiving divya jnana. First one gets divya jnana, but then to seal the deal, to keep the ball rolling, to finish the job, for the icing on the cake, one should surrender to the Guru and take mantra diksa.


The mantra diksa and surrender to Guru is in addition to the more important reception of divya jnana. It is like taking extra credit courses to move your grade from a C to an A."


What is Jiva Goswami actually saying ?




Jiva Goswami was speaking about rituals i.e Deity worship, helpfull, but not necessary, :


"Now will be considered worship of the Lord (arcana), which begins with the invitation (avahana) to the Lord to appear. If one has faith in the path of worship, one should take shelter of a bona fide spiritual master and ask questions of him. This is described in these words of Srimad Bhagavatam (11.3.4:

"Having obtained the mercy of his spiritual master, who reveals to the disciple the injunctions of Vedic scriptures, the devotee should worship the Supreme Personality of Godhead in the particular personal form of the Lord the devotee finds most attractive."

Although in the opinion of Srimad-Bhagavatam the path of worshipping the Deity, as it is described in the Pancaratras and other scriptures, is not compulsory, and without engaging in Deity worship one may attain the final goal of life by engaging in even only one of the nine processes of devotional service, processes that begin with surrender , nevertheless, in the opinion of they who follow the path of Narada Muni and other great sages, by accepting initiation from a bona fide spiritual master one attains a relationship with the Supreme Personality of Godhead, a relationship established through the feet of one's spiritual master, and when one is thus initiated, the process of Deity worship is compulsory.

Therefore in the Agama-sastra it is said:


Diksa is the process by which one can awaken his transcendental knowledge and vanquish all reactions caused by sinful activity. A person expert in the study of the revealed scriptures know this process as diksa.


"It is the duty of every human being to surrender to a bona fide spiritual master. Giving him everything: body, mind and intelligence, one must take a Vaisnava initiation from him.




The words "divyam jnanam" (transcendental knowledge) here refers to the descriptions of the Lord's transcendental form in sacred mantras. Chanting those mantras establishes a relationship with the Supreme Lord. This is explained in the Padma Purana, Uttara-khanda's description of the eight-syllable mantra. Thus for wealthy householders the path of Deity worship is most important.

The sages tell Maharaja Vasudeva (Srimad Bhagavatam 10.84.37):

"This is the most auspicious path of progress for a religious householder of the twice-born orders: to faithfully worship the Personality of Godhead with his uncontaminated possessions which have been acquired by just means."***


A wealthy householder who acts like a penniless person and seeks to serve the Lord only by meditating on Him or performing similar services and not by spending money for the cause of the Lord is a hypocrite and a miser. Such a person is either materialistic or lazy. He is at fault because he does not have faith in the Lord.

Such a person is at risk of falling down, as is explained in these words (Srimad Bhagavatam 1.3.3:

"Only those who render unreserved, uninterrupted, favourable service unto the lotus feet of Lord Krsna, who carries the wheel of the chariot in His hand, can know the creator of the universe in His full glory, power and transcendence."*


General speaking, for householders the path of Deity worship (arcana) is better than the path of direct service (paricarya). This is because of the many rules to be followed in the path of Deity worship. Householders should offer yajnas to the Supreme Personality of Godhead and not to the demigods. By worshipping the Supreme Personality of Godhead all the demigods are automatically pleased in the same way that the branches, leaves, and other parts of a tree are nourished when water is given to the tree's root. Failure to worship the Lord in this way is a great fault for a householder.

In the Skanda Purana, Sri Prahlada explains: "O King, do not eat in the home of one who does not worship the Deity of Lord Krsna. The food there is not fit to be eaten."

Any initiated devotee who fails in this duty falls into hell. This is described in the scriptures. For example, in the Visnu-dharmottara Purana it is said:

"One should worship Lord Hari once, twice, or three times each day. One who eats without first offering the food to the Lord goes to hell."

If one is not able or qualified to engage in Deity worship, then the Agni Purana gives this prescription:

"One who with faith and devotion gazes at Lord Hari after or while the Lord is worshipped, pleases the Lord. That devotee attains the benefits of practicing yoga."

The word "yoga" here means "the yoga or devotional service as is described in the Pancaratras and other Vaisnava scriptures". In some circumstances it is appropriate to perform Deity worship in meditation. This is described in the following statement of the Padma Purana, Uttara-khanda:

"O beloved, everyone should meditate on worshipping the Deity of the Lord."

In the path of Deity worship one must first be initiated. Then there are many rules that must be followed. These rules are described in the scriptures.

Initiation is described in these words of the Agama-sastra:

"Even though born in a brahmana family, one cannot engage in Vedic rituals without being initiated and having a sacred thread. Although born in a brahmana family, one becomes a brahmana after initiation and the sacred thread ceremony. Unless one is initiated as a brahmana, he cannot worship the holy name properly."

The rules of scripture are described in these words of the Visnu-rahasya:

"By following the rules of worship and respectfully worshipping the Deity of Lord Hari, one attains a result a hundred times better than the result of worshipping in ignorance of the rules."

Here the word "bhaktya" means "with great respect". One who worships in this way attains a result a hundred times greater. One who does not worship in this way does not attain such a result. That is the meaning here. The rules of worship are understood according to the teachings of the Vaisnava-sampradaya.

In the Visnu-rahasya it is said:

"One should accept words of teaching offered by persons who always worship Lord Visnu with their body, mind, words and deeds. Such persons are like Lord Visnu Himself."

In the Kurma Purana, it is said:

"One should ask questions of saintly Vaisnava brahmanas learned in the Vaisnava scriptures, acting properly, and firm in their vows. One should carefully follow what they teach."

In the Vaisnava Tantra it is said:

"One should not follow the teachings of a person who is not always devoted to his spiritual master, to the chanting of japa and to the Supreme Personality of Godhead, Lord Visnu."

37 This is described in the following words of Srimad-Bhagavatam (9.4.21):

"In performing his prescribed duties as king, Maharaja Ambarisa always offered the results of his royal activities to the Supreme Personality of Godhead, Krsna, who is the enjoyer of everything and is beyond the perception of material senses. He certainly took advice from brahmanas who were faithful devotees of the Lord, and thus he ruled the planet earth without difficulty."*

This passage describes King Ambarisa. The Srimad Bhagavatam verse quoted in the beginning of this anuccheda was spoken by Srila Sukadeva Gosvami.


The substance of all the Vedic mantras is the chanting of the holy name of the Lord. Every mantra begins with the prefix nama Om and eventually addresses by name the Supreme Personality of Godhead. By the supreme will of the Lord there is a specific potency in each and every mantra chanted by great sages like Narada Muni and other rsis. Chanting the holy name of the Lord immediately renovates the transcendental relationship of the living being with the Supreme Lord. To chant the holy name of the Lord one need not depend upon other paraphernalia, for one can immediately get all the desired results of connecting or linking with the Supreme Personality of Godhead. It may therefore be questioned why there is a necessity for further spiritual activities in devotional service for one who engages in the chanting of the holy name of the Lord.


The answer is that although it is correct that one who fully engages in chanting the holy name need not depend upon the process of initiation, generally a devotee is addicted to many abominable material habits due to material contamination from his previous life. In order to get quick relief from all these contaminations, it is required that one engage in the worship of the Lord in the temple. The worship of the Deity in the temple is essential to reduce one's restlessness due to the contaminations of conditional life. Thus Narada in his pancaratriki vidhi, and other great sages have sometimes stressed that since every conditioned soul has a bodily concept of life aimed at sense enjoyment the rules and regulations for worshipping the Deity in the temple are essential.


In the Ramarcana-candrika it is said of Lord Ramacandra:

"Among Vaisnava-mantras, the Rama-mantra is the best. The Rama-mantra is millions and millions of times more effective than Ganesa-mantras or mantras for the other demigods.

"O king of brahmanas, even if one is not initiated and has not performed either purascarya of nyasa, he can attain perfection simply by chanting the Rama-mantra."

Vaisnava mantras do not need to be purified by the processes beginning with sadhya. This is described in the following statement of the Mantradeva-prakasika:

"In chanting Saura-mantras, Nrsimha-mantras, and other Vaisnava-mantras there is no need to perform the purifying rituals known as sadhya, siddha, susiddha and ari."

In another Tantra it is said:

"Mantras glorifying Lord Nrsimha, Lord Surya Narayana and Lord Varaha, mantras with the sacred syllable Om, and mantras from the Vedas do not require to be purified by performing siddha or other rituals."

In the Sanatkumara-samhita it is said:

"O Narada, mantras glorifying Lord Gopala are all self-manifest. That is why there is no need to purify them with sadhya, siddha, susiddha, and ari."

In another scripture it is said:

"To all varnas and asramas, to women, and to every social class, the Gopala-mantra quickly grants whatever is desired."

The rules of chanting mantras are described in these words of the Brahma-yamala:

"Devotional service performed without reference to the Vedas, Puranas, Pancaratras, etc., must be considered sentimentalism and it causes nothing but disturbance to society."*

This is explained in the Fourth Canto of Srimad Bhagavatam (4.18-35), where the earth-goddess says:

"To benefit all human society, not only in this life but in the next, the great seers and sages have prescribed various methods conducive to the prosperity of the people in general.*

"One who follows the principles and instructions enjoined by the great sages of the past can utilise these instructions for practical purposes. Such a person can very easily enjoy life and pleasures.*

"A foolish person who manufactures his own ways and means through mental speculation and does not recognise the authority of the sages who lay down unimpeachable directions is simply unsuccessful again and again in his attempts."



So what are we seeing here ?


Jiva is giving a very specific narrow meaning for a specific sadhana .


Jiva is writing about the path of "wealthy householders", and how they should follow the path laid down i.e panca samskaras.






Jivas context was all about the knowledge of deity worship, advising wealthy grhastas on a samskara. He specifically puts this into the concept that one has to receive mantra diksa to be able to do proper Arcana. A non brahmana is not supposed to do Arcana. So that samskara is meant to allow anyone to follow that process of arcana .


The Panca Samskaras is what Jiva is refering to, this process is all about rituals, meant to elevate materialistic householders.


Taking mantra diksa is one of the 5 samskaras.


Thus Jiva was giving an exposition of Vaidhi Sadhana Bhakti for householders.




But Jiva also says that the whole process is not necessary.


Now what does this mean if we equate diksa, only, with the reception of divya jnana and the destruction of ones Karmic entanglement (sins), with the mantra diksa within the panca samskaras ?


We have a contradiction if we take Diksa to ONLY mean the process described pertaining to deity worship.


What is absolutely necessary for the Bhakta ?


Divya jnana, transcedental knowledge.


Can anyone argue with this ?


So if we equate Diksa only in the context Jiva is using it, and Jiva says it is not even necessary, then we are left with Divya jnana not being necessary.


Now here we see Mahaprabhu giving us another definition of diksa.


[Cc Antya 4.192,3]


diksa-kale bhakta kare atma-samarpana

sei-kale krsna tare kare atma-sama


At the time of initiation, when a devotee fully surrenders unto the service of the Lord, Krsna accepts him to be as good as Himself.



sei deha kare tara cid-ananda-maya

aprakrta-dehe tanra carana bhajaya


When the devotee's body is thus transformed into spiritual existence, the devotee, in that transcendental body, renders service to the lotus feet of the Lord.


So are we to believe that when a householder undergoes the panca samskara mantra diksa, that is the exact same thing as what Mahaprabhu describes as Diksa ?


Mahaprabhu answers in the verse that follows the above two.


martyo yada tyakta-samasta-karma

niveditatma vicikirsito me

tadamrtatvam pratipadyamano

mayatma-bhuyaya ca kalpate vai


The living entity who is subjected to birth and death attains immortality when he gives up all material activities, dedicates his life to the execution of My order, and acts according to My directions. In this way he becomes fit to enjoy the spiritual bliss derived from exchanging loving mellows with Me.


This is Mahaprabhus definition of diksa, he quotes Krishna from the 11th canto of the Bhagavatam.


And what context was Krishna speaking in ?



"SB 11.29.9:The Supreme Personality of Godhead said: Yes, I shall describe to you the principles of devotion to Me, by executing which a mortal human being will conquer unconquerable death.


SB 11.29.9: Always remembering Me, one should perform all his duties for Me without becoming impetuous. With mind and intelligence offered to Me, one should fix his mind in attraction to My devotional service.


SB 11.29.10: One should take shelter of holy places where My saintly devotees reside, and one should be guided by the exemplary activities of My devotees, who appear among the demigods, demons and human beings.


SB 11.29.11: Either alone or in public gatherings, with singing, dancing and other exhibitions of royal opulence, one should arrange to celebrate those holy days, ceremonies and festivals set aside specially for My worship.


SB 11.29.12: With a pure heart one should see Me, the Supreme Soul within all beings and also within oneself, to be both unblemished by anything material and also present everywhere, both externally and internally, just like the omnipresent sky.


SB 11.29.13-14: O brilliant Uddhava, one who thus views all living entities with the idea that I am present within each of them, and who by taking shelter of this divine knowledge offers due respect to everyone, is considered actually wise. Such a man sees equally the brahmana and the outcaste, the thief and the charitable promoter of brahminical culture, the sun and the tiny sparks of fire, the gentle and the cruel.


SB 11.29.15: For him who constantly meditates upon My presence within all persons, the bad tendencies of rivalry, envy and abusiveness, along with false ego, are very quickly destroyed.


SB 11.29.16: Disregarding the ridicule of one's companions, one should give up the bodily conception and its accompanying embarrassment. One should offer obeisances before all -- even the dogs, outcastes, cows and asses -- falling flat upon the ground like a rod.


SB 11.29.17: Until one has fully developed the ability to see Me within all living beings, one must continue to worship Me by this process with the activities of his speech, mind and body.


SB 11.29.18: By such transcendental knowledge of the all-pervading Personality of Godhead, one is able to see the Absolute Truth everywhere. Freed thus from all doubts, one gives up fruitive activities.


SB 11.29.19: Indeed, I consider this process -- using one's mind, words and bodily functions for realizing Me within all living beings -- to be the best possible method of spiritual enlightenment.


SB 11.29.20: My dear Uddhava, because I have personally established it, this process of devotional service unto Me is transcendental and free from any material motivation. Certainly a devotee never suffers even the slightest loss by adopting this process.


SB 11.29.21: O Uddhava, greatest of saints, in a dangerous situation an ordinary person cries, becomes fearful and laments, although such useless emotions do not change the situation. But activities offered to Me without personal motivation, even if they are externally useless, amount to the actual process of religion.


SB 11.29.22: This process is the supreme intelligence of the intelligent and the cleverness of the most clever, for by following it one can in this very life make use of the temporary and unreal to achieve Me, the eternal reality.


SB 11.29.23: Thus have I related to you -- both in brief and in detail -- a complete survey of the science of the Absolute Truth. Even for the demigods, this science is very difficult to comprehend.


SB 11.29.24: I have repeatedly spoken this knowledge to you with clear reasoning. Anyone who properly understands it will become free from all doubts and attain liberation.


SB 11.29.25: Anyone who fixes his attention on these clear answers to your questions will attain to the eternal, confidential goal of the Vedas -- the Supreme Absolute Truth.


SB 11.29.26: One who liberally disseminates this knowledge among My devotees is the bestower of the Absolute Truth, and to him I give My very own self.


SB 11.29.27: He who loudly recites this supreme knowledge, which is the most lucid and purifying, becomes purified day by day, for he reveals Me to others with the lamp of transcendental knowledge.


SB 11.29.28: Anyone who regularly listens to this knowledge with faith and attention, all the while engaging in My pure devotional service, will never become bound by the reactions of material work.


SB 11.29.29: My dear friend Uddhava, have you now completely understood this transcendental knowledge? Are the confusion and lamentation that arose in your mind now dispelled?


SB 11.29.30: You should not share this instruction with anyone who is hypocritical, atheistic or dishonest, or with anyone who will not listen faithfully, who is not a devotee, or who is simply not humble.


SB 11.29.31: This knowledge should be taught to one who is free from these bad qualities, who is dedicated to the welfare of the brahmanas, and who is kindly disposed, saintly and pure. And if common workers and women are found to have devotion for the Supreme Lord, they are also to be accepted as qualified hearers.


SB 11.29.32: When an inquisitive person comes to understand this knowledge, he has nothing further to know. After all, one who has drunk the most palatable nectar cannot remain thirsty.


SB 11.29.33: Through analytic knowledge, ritualistic work, mystic yoga, mundane business and political rule, people seek to advance in religiosity, economic development, sense gratification and liberation. But because you are My devotee, whatever men can accomplish in these multifarious ways you will very easily find within Me.


SB 11.29.34: A person who gives up all fruitive activities and offers himself entirely unto Me, eagerly desiring to render service unto Me, achieves liberation from birth and death and is promoted to the status of sharing My own opulences.



So in conclusion, here we find Krishna giving his opinion of what constitutes

"dharman su-mangalan", do we find any reference to Mantra diksa being necessary ?




How about Mahaprabhus definition of Diksa ?


diksa-kale bhakta kare atma-samarpana


He equates Diksa with "samarpana", full dedication. At that time the devotee becomes:


sei-kale krsna tare kare atma-sama


Krishna makes the devotee or accepts the devotee to be as good as Himself.


And then:


martyo yada tyakta-samasta-karma

niveditatma vicikirsito me

tadamrtatvam pratipadyamano

mayatma-bhuyaya ca kalpate vai



'The living entity who is subjected to birth and death attains immortality when he gives up all material activities, dedicates his life to the execution of My order, and acts according to My directions. In this way he becomes fit to enjoy the spiritual bliss derived from exchanging loving mellows with Me.



Again, no mantra diksa, only dedication.


So we hear from Sri Krishna and Sri Krishna Caitanya.


They describe one path, Jiva was describing another.


Two different types of Diksa, two different types of Bhakti practice.


One is all about rituals and deity worship, samskaras.


The other is about the path of transcedental knowledge and it's application in your internal awareness and external perception.



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This is a part of Baladeva Vidyabhusana's Govinda Bhasya called "The Goddess of Fortune"




The Goddess of Fortune


Introduction by Srila Baladeva Vidyabhushana




Now will be explained the truth that the goddess of fortune


is the best of the Lord's qualities. In the Sukla Yajur-Veda


(31.22) it is said:


sris ca te lakshmis ca patnyau



"O Supreme Personality of Godhead, Sri and Lakshmi


are Your wives."




Some say that Sri is Rama-devi and Lakshmi is Bhagavati


Sampat. Others say that Sri is Vag-devi and Lakshmi is Rama-


devi. In the Gopala-tapani Upanishad (.141) it is said:



kamala-pataye namah



"Obeisances to Lord Krishna, the goddess


of fortune's husband."




In the Gopala-tapani Upanishad (1.42) it is also said:





govindaya namo namah



"Obeisances to Lord Krishna, who is the pleasure of


the cows, the land, and the senses, and who is a swan swimming


in the Manasa lake of the goddess of fortune's thoughts."



In the Rama-tapani Upanishad it is said:


ramadharaya ramaya


"Obeisances to Lord Rama, on whom the goddess of


fortune rests."




Samsaya (doubt): Is the goddess of fortune material, and


therefore not eternal, or is she spiritual, and therefore





Purvapaksha (the opponent speaks): In Brihad-aranyaka


Upanishad (2.3.6) it is said:


athata adeso neti neti


"This is the teaching: It is not this. It is not




These words show that the Supreme has no qualities and


therefore it is not possible that, ultimately, the goddess of


fortune can be His wife. The goddess of fortune is a material


illusion, a manifestation of the material mode of pure goodness..


Therefore the goddess of fortune is material and not eternal.




Siddhanta (conclusion): In the following words the author


of the sutras gives His conclusion.



Sutra 40


kamaditaratra tatra caya-tanadibhyah



kama - desires; adi - beginning with; itaratra - in otherplaces;


tatra - there; ca - also; aya - all-pervasiveness; tana - givingbliss and


liberation; adibhyah - beginning with



Because She is all-pervading, the giver of bliss, and the


giver of liberation, and because She has many other virtues, She


is the source of what is to be desired, both there and in other


places also.




Purport by Srila Baladeva Vidyabhushana


The words "sa eva" (she indeed) are understood from


the previous sutra. The "she" here is the transcendental


goddess of fortune, who in both the spiritual sky (tatra), which


is untouched by matter, and also in the world of the five


material elements (itaratra), fulfills the desires of her master.


She is the eternal goddess of fortune. The word "kama"


here means "the desire for amorous pastimes". The word


"adi" (beginning with) here means "personal


service and other activities appropriate for these pastimes.


In this way the goddess of fortune is transcendental. Why is


that? The sutra explains: "aya-tanadibhyah". The word


"aya" means "all-pervading". The word


tana" means "giving liberation an bliss to the


devotees". In these two ways she is like the Lord Himself, who


possesses truthfulness and a host of other virtues.


The word "adi" (beginning with) here hints that she


is spiritual in nature. The statement of Svetasvatara


Upanishad (6. also affirms that she is spiritual. In this way


she is spiritual and all-pervading. She has knowledge,


compassion, and a host of other virtues, and she is also a giver


of liberation. In these ways the goddess of fortune is not


different from the Supreme Personality of Godhead. In the


Vishnu Purana it is said:


nityaiva sa jagan-mata


vishnoh srir anapayini


yatha sarva-gato vishnus


tathaiveyam dvijottama



"The goddess of fortune is the eternal companion of


Lord Vishnu. She is the mother of the universe. O best of the


brahmanas, as Lord Vishnu is all-pervading, so is she also."


It is also said in the scriptures:


atma-vidya ca devi tvam





"O goddess of fortune, You are the Lord's spiritual


knowledge. You are the giver of liberation."




If the goddess of fortune were not spiritual it would be


improper to ascribe these two qualities (all-pervasiveness and


giving liberation) to her. That the goddess of fortune is


spiritual is described in the following words of the Vishnu




procyate parameso yo


yah suddho 'py upacaratah


prasidatu sa no vishnur


atma yah sarva-dehinam



"May supremely pure Lord Vishnu, who is the


master of the spiritual goddess of fortune and the Supersoul of


all living entities, be merciful to us."




The word "para-ma" in this verse means "the


spiritual (para) goddess of fortune (ma)". Because the goddess


of fortune has been described as being all-pervading and having


other spiritual attributes, it is not possible that she is


material. In this way it is proved that the goddess of fortune


is not material. For these reasons the goddess of fortune is


spiritual and eternal.




Here someone may object: Is it not so that if the goddess of


fortune is the spiritual potency of the Lord, (which is not


different from the Lord), then it is not possible for her to have


devotion for the Lord? After all, it is not possible for a person


to have devotion to himself.




If this objection is raised, then the author of the sutras


replies in the following words.



Sutra 41


adarad alopah


adarat - because of devotion; alopah - non-ending.


Because of devotion it does not cease.



Purport by Srila Baladeva Vidyabhushana



Although in truth the goddess of fortune is not different


from the Lord , still, because the Lord is a jewel mine of


wonderful qualities, and also because He is the root of


the goddess of fortune's existence, the love and devotion that the


goddess bears for Him never ceases. The branch never ceases to


love the tree, nor the moonlight the moon. Her love and devotion


for the Lord is described in many places in the Sruti-sastra. In


the Srimad-Bhagavatam (10.29.37) it is said:



srir yat-padambuja-rajas cakame tulasya


labdhvapi vakshasi padam kila bhritya-jushtam



"Dear Krishna, the lotus feet of the goddess of


fortune are always worshiped by the demigods, although she is


always resting on Your chest in the Vaikuntha planets. She


underwent great austerity and penance to have some shelter at


Your lotus feet, which are always covered by tulasi leaves."*




Here someone may object: Is it not true that amorous love is


possible only when there are two: the lover and the beloved? If


there is no difference between the lover and the beloved, then


love is not possible between them.




If this is said, then the author of the sutras gives the


following reply.



Sutra 42


upasthite 'tas tad-vacanat


upasthite - being near; atah - thus; tat - of that;vacanat - from


the statement.



It is in His presence. It is so because of the statement.



Purport by Srila Baladeva Vidyabhushana




The word "upasthite" means "nearness". even


though the Lord's potency and the Lord Himself, the shelter of


that potency, are one, still, because the Lord is the best of


males and His potency is the jewel of young girls, when They are


together there is naturally the perfection of blissful amorous


pastimes. How is that known? The sutra explains: "tad-


vacanat" (because of the statement). In the Gopala-tapani


Upanishad (2.25) it is said:



yo ha vai kamena kaman kamayate sa kami bhavati. yo ha vai tv


akamena kaman kamayate so 'kami bhavati.



"He who lusts after pleasures is lusty. He who


enjoys without material lust is not lusty."



In these words the amorous pastimes of the Lord are


described. The word "a-kamena" here means "with


something that bears certainly similarities to lust". This thing


with some similarities to material lust is the Lord's pure


spiritual love. That is the meaning. With spiritual love He


enjoys the goddess of fortune, who is actually Himself. In this


way He finds pleasure and fulfillment. For this there is no fault


on His part. By touching the goddess of fortune, who is actually


Himself, the Lord enjoys transcendental bliss. It is like a


person gazing at his own handsomeness (in a mirror). That is what


is said here.


Different from His spiritual potency (para sakti) is the


potency of the Lord's form (svarupa-sakti). The Sruti-sastras


and other scriptures explain that through the svarupa-sakti the


Supreme Lord manifests as the best of males, and through the


para sakti the Lord manifests His various transcendental


qualities. It is through the para sakti that the Lord manifests


His knowledge, bliss, mercy, opulence, power, sweetness, and


other qualities.


It is also through the para sakti that the Vedic


scriptures are manifested. In the same way is manifested the


earth and other places. manifesting as the Lord's pleasure


potency (hladini sakti), the para sakti appears as Sri


Radha, the jewel of teenage girls.


Although the Lord and His para sakti are not different,


still, for enjoying different pastimes, They are manifested as


different. In this way the Lord's desires are perfectly and


completely fulfilled.


These manifestations of the para sakti, beginning with the


manifestation of the Lord's qualities, are not manifested only


recently. They are beginningless and eternal. They will never


cease to exist. Therefore the devotees should meditate on the


Supreme Personality of Godhead as accompanied by the goddess of





So the question raised by Baladeva was if Laksmi and Visnu are the same, then how can there be love between them ?


He answered


upasthite 'tas tad-vacanat


upasthite - being near; atah - thus; tat - of that;vacanat - from the statement.


In other words he doesn't say that they have real love between them, instead he says "It is in His presence." In other words the love that is displayed between them is displayed externally, when they are present in lila. He then goes on to to clarify this concept


"even though the Lord's potency and the Lord Himself, the shelter of


that potency, are one, still, because the Lord is the best of


males and His potency is the jewel of young girls, when They are


together there is naturally the perfection of blissful amorous


pastimes. How is that known? The sutra explains: "tad-


vacanat" (because of the statement)."


Here Baladeva says even though "they are one", even though "their rasa is like one person looking in a mirror", even though Krishna "is the goddess himself", that "in his presence" devotion and love is displayed between them, even though they are one, "when they are together blissfull amorous pastimes are perfected."





Adhikarana 19


The Many Forms of the Supreme Personality of Godhead



Introduction by Srila Baladeva Vidyabhushana


In the Gopala-tapani Upanishad (1.54) it is said:


tasmat eva krishnah paro devas tam dhyayet tam raset tam


bhajet tam yajet. iti. om tat sat.



"Therefore, Lord Krishna is the Supreme Personality of


Godhead. One should meditate on Him, glorify Him, serve Him, and


worship Him. Om Tat Sat."




Samsaya (doubt): Must one always worship Lord Hari as


Krishna or is it possible to worship Him in another form also?




Purvapaksha (the opponent speaks): Because this passage


ends the Upanishad the proper interpretation is the worship of


Lord Hari must always be directed to the form of Lord Krishna






Siddhanta (conclusion): In the following words the author


of the sutras gives His conclusion.



Sutra 43


tan nirdharananiyamas tad drishtaih prithag hy apratibandhah phalam


tat - of that; nirdharana - of determination; a - not;


niyamah - rule; tat - that; drishtaih - by what is seen;


prithak - distinct; hi - indeed; a - not;pratibandhah - obstruction;


phalam - fruit.



There is no restriction in that regard. It is different


because of what is seen. Non-obstruction is the result.




Purport by Srila Baladeva Vidyabhushana




There is no rule that says one must worship Lord Hari in His


form as Krishna only and not in His form of Lord Balarama or any


of His other forms. Even when He is a tiny infant as Yasoda's


breast, Lord Krishna is always all-pervading, all-knowing, and full


of bliss. How is that known? The sutra explains: "tad-


drishtaih" (Because of what is seen). In Gopala-tapani


Upanishad (2.4 it is said:



yatrasau samsthitah krishnas


tribhih saktya samahitah




rukminya sahito vibhuh




catuh-sabdo bhaved eko


hy omkaras hy amsakaih kritah






"Lord Krishna, accompanied by His three potencies and


by Balarama, Aniruddha, Pradyumna, and Rukmini, stays in


delightful Mathura Puri. These four names are identical with the


name Om."




Lord Balarama and the other incarnations are all forms of


Lord Krishna and so They also should be worshiped. That is the






Here someone may object: If that is so then the phrase


krishna eva" (Krishna indeed), emphasizing Lord


Krishna would become meaningless.




To this objection the sutra replies: "prithak" (it


is different). This means, "the result is different".


What is that different result? the sutra explains:


apratibandhah" (non-obstruction is the result). This means,


"the removal of the obstructions to the worship of Lord


Krishna, obstructions caused by thinking any other form is the


highest form of the Lord." Therefore, if one is able and if one


is so inclined, he may worship other forms of the Lord, which


are all non-different from Lord Krishna.



Now in the above Rukmini is said to be one of the forms of Krishna, here Baladeva is describing how any form of Krishna is equal and you may worship any form and get the same result.


He mentions "Balarama, Aniruddha, Pradyumna, and Rukmini" and then in the next line says "Lord Balarama and the other incarnations are all forms of Lord Krishna and so They also should be worshiped. That is the meaning."


Prabhupada said the same thing as well:


"Radha and Krsna are one, and when Krsna desires to enjoy pleasure, He manifests Himself as Radharani. The spiritual exchange of love between Radha and Krsna is the actual display of the internal pleasure potency of Krsna (Radha's display). Although we speak of "when" Krsna desires, just when He did desire we cannot say. We only speak in this way because in conditional life we take it that everything has a beginning; however, in the absolute or spiritual life there is neither beginning nor end. Yet in order to understand that Radha and Krsna are one and that They also become divided, the question "When?" automatically comes to mind. When Krsna desired to enjoy His pleasure potency, He manifested Himself in the separate form of Radharani."



"As already explained, Krsna and Radha are one in two. They are identical. Krsna expands Himself in multi-incarnations and plenary portions like the purusas. Similarly, Srimati Radharani expands Herself in multi-forms as the goddesses of fortune, the queens and the damsels of Vraja. Such expansions from Srimati Radharani are all Her plenary (completely identical) portions. All these womanly forms of Krsna are expansions corresponding to His plenary expansions of Visnu forms. These expansions have been compared to reflected forms of the original form. There is no difference between the original and reflected forms. The female reflections of Krsna's pleasure potency are as good as Krsna Himself.


The plenary expansions of Krsna's personality are called vaibhava-vilasa and vaibhava-prakasa, and Radha's expansions are similarly described. The goddesses of fortune are vaibhava-vilasa, and the queens are vaibhava-prakasa of Radharani. The personal associates of Radharani, the damsels of Vraja, are direct expansions of Her body. As expansions of Her personai form and transcendental disposition, they are agents of different reciprocations of love in the pastimes of Lord Krsna, under the supreme direction of Srimati Radharani."

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The anti-party(those oppossed to Srila Sarasvati Prabhupada and his descendents) are not really concerned with facts.


What are they concerned with ?


They are concerned with being seen and accepted as the only authentic representatives of Mahaprabhu.


If this was not their real motivation, then why do they insist that their interpretation is the only authentic one ?


If they were only interested in teaching their conception as bona fide, then why do they need to denounce all others as fake ?


This reveals their true purpose. Mantra wallahs.


What I find ironic in their use of verses from Jiva Goswami's writings, is that both before, and after the divya jnana/diksa verses, Jiva specifically says, it's not really essential, not really needed.


Yet to those who claim to be Jiva sisyas, they base their "authentic" demand for the necessity of mantra diksa, on something Jiva says is inconsequential, it's especially meant for the common family man, for householders living materialistic lives.


The position of the anti party, when seen in light of all the facts, is not sustainable. As Jiva advises, they should take mantra diksa, do Arcana, pratice the path laid down i.e panca samskaras. This is indeed helpfull in your materialistic lives of pursuing artha, dharma, kama, and moksa.


But...You should never mistake that path, with the path of Saranagati, Samarpana, full surrender, full dedication. These are two distinct paths.


This is the whole point of the Siksa sampradaya, it is based on divya jnana. Not mantra diksa. It is based on the cultivation of knowledge alongside total surrender to Krishna and His instructions. It is not based on the traditional gradual elevation of householders, following the panca samskaras, in addition to their family lives and worldly pursuits.


Their whole point is absurd.


According to their teachings, if an ordinary person, leading an ordinary life, receives mantra diksa, along with the other panca samskaras recommended by Jiva, then that person is close to God, an intimate of God.


Whereas if someone who has not received mantra diksa, yet he has studied the sastra almost everyday for his entire life, who has chanted harinam everyday ,for almost his entire life, who has given up the pursuit of artha, kama, dharma, and moksa, and is soley focused on sadhana and surrendering to Guru and Krishna, internally and externally, this person...is far away from God.


This is what they teach.


Is this what Krishna teaches ?


Is this what Mahaprabhu teaches ?



Mantra diksa is not what they Claim, it is not all important, anyone with any sense can understand that what is really important, is divya jnana and dedication.


Transcendental knowledge is not something that can be imparted with a mantra, Jiva was refering to a particular kind of knowledge associated with Arcana, otherwise why would he claim that mantra diksa is not even necessary ?


Real divya jnana, the type needed to experience one's eternal sthayi bhava, is the knowledge that enables you to meet and relate to Radha Krishna directly, in the here and know. That takes dedication and learning from sastra. It cannot be magically imparted in some diksa ceremony. Real divya jnana is Bhagavat tattva, realization of the jnana received from the Srimad Bhagavatam. It cannot be imparted in some fire ceremony, with a few words whispered into your ear. It takes dedication and surrender to receive real divya jnana. Dedication to hearing the Bhagavat, and surrender in serving the Bhagavat.


Krishna explains this knowledge Himself in the 11th canto, those are Krishna's ideas of what constitutes necessary divya jnana i.e.: That knowledge which gives you the ability to see Krishna everywhere, within and without.


This is what Krishna says on divya jnana:


<font color="red"> By such transcendental knowledge of the all-pervading Personality of Godhead, one is able to see the Absolute Truth everywhere. Freed thus from all doubts, one gives up fruitive activities.



Indeed, I consider this process -- using one's mind, words and bodily functions for realizing Me within all living beings -- to be the best possible method of spiritual enlightenment



This process is the supreme intelligence of the intelligent and the cleverness of the most clever, for by following it one can in this very life make use of the temporary and unreal to achieve Me, the eternal reality.


When an inquisitive person comes to understand this knowledge, he has nothing further to know. After all, one who has drunk the most palatable nectar cannot remain thirsty. </font color>



This message is the same As Srila Prabhupada presents i.e first become conscious of Krishna, then you can find out all the details of your rasa, directly from the source.

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That Krishna = Durga and Durga = Krishna seems somewhat agreeable when U consider that Both were "born" at exactly the same moment according to Bhagavatam at the time when Vasudeva Krishna appeared from Devaki's womb in Kamsa's prison, there appeared a cute little girl from Yashoda Mata's same womb, and this was Durga Devi and I guess She is blackish too, just like Krishna.


I once met a Durga devotee and he actually had the same realization, namely that to worship Durga is to worship Krishna. He worshipped a blackish doll as if She was Durga. And he talked to the doll as well.

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Then you must to read S.bhagavatam, 10.56.35.

She bring back Sri Krsna from de cave.

Pls, check!

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goloka-namni nija-dhamni tale ca tasya

devi mahesa-hari-dhamasu tesu tesu

te te prabhava-nicaya vihitas ca yena

govindam adi-purusam tam aham bhajami


goloka-namni--in the planet known as Goloka Vrndavana; nija-dhamni--the personal abode of the Supreme Personality of Godhead; tale--in the part underneath; ca--also; tasya--of that; devi--of the goddess Durga; mahesa--of Lord Siva; hari--of Narayana; dhamasu--in the planets; tesu tesu--in each of them; te te--those respective; prabhava-nicayah--opulences; vihitah--established; ca--also; yena--by whom; govindam--Govinda; adi-purusam--the original person; tam--Him; aham--I; bhajami--worship.



Lowest of all is located Devi-dhama [mundane world], next above it is Mahesa-dama [abode of Mahesa]; above Mahesa-dhama is placed Hari-dhama [abode of Hari] and above them all is located Krsna's own realm named Goloka. I adore the primeval Lord Govinda, who has allotted their respective authorities to the rulers of those graded realms.



The realm of Goloka stands highest above all others. Brahma looking up to the higher position of Goloka is speaking of the other realms from the point of view of his own realm: the first in order is this mundane world called Devi-dhama consisting of the fourteen worlds, viz., Satyaloka, etc.; next above Devi-dhama is located Siva-dhama one portion of which, called Mahakala-dhama, is enveloped in darkness; interpenetrating this portion of Siva-dhama there shines the Sadasivaloka, full of great light. Above the same appears Hari-dhama or the transcendental Vaikunthaloka. The potency of Devi-dhama, in the form of the extension of Maya, and that of Sivaloka, consisting of time, space and matter, are the potency of the separated particles pervaded by the penumbral reflection of the subjective portion of the Divinity. But Hari-dhama is ever resplendent with transcendental majesty and the great splendor of all-sweetness predominates over all other majesties in Goloka. The Supreme Lord Govinda by his own direct and indirect power has constituted those respective potencies of those realms.











srsti-sthiti-pralaya-sadhana-saktir eka

chayeva yasya bhuvanani bibharti durga

icchanurupam api yasya ca cestate sa

govindam adi-purusam tam aham bhajami


srsti--creation; sthiti--preservation; pralaya--and destruction; sadhana--the agency; saktih--potency; eka--one; chaya--the shadow; iva--like; yasya--of whom; bhuvanani--the mundane world; bibharti--maintains; durga--Durga; iccha--the will; anurupam--in accordance with; api--certainly; yasya--of whom; ca--and; cestate--conducts herself; sa--she; govindam--Govinda; adi-purusam--the original person; tam--Him; aham--I; bhajami--worship.



The external potency Maya who is of the nature of the shadow of the cit potency, is worshiped by all people as Durga, the creating, preserving and destroying agency of this mundane world. I adore the primeval Lord Govinda in accordance with whose will Durga conducts herself.



(The aforesaid presiding deity of Devi-dhama is being described.) The world, in which Brahma takes his stand and hymns the Lord of Goloka, is Devi-dhama consisting of the fourteen worlds and Durga is its presiding deity. She is ten-armed, representing the tenfold fruitive activities. She rides on the lion, representing her heroic prowess. She tramples down Mahisasura, representing the subduer of vices. She is the mother of two sons, Karttikeya and Ganesa, representing beauty and success. She is placed between Laksmi and Sarasvati, representing mundane opulence and mundane knowledge. She is armed with the twenty weapons, representing the various pious activities enjoined by the Vedas for suppression of vices. She holds the snake, representing the beauty of destructive time. Such is Durga possessing all these manifold forms. Durga is possessed of durga, which means a prison house. When jivas begotten of the marginal potency (tatastha sakti) forget the service of Krsna they are confined in the mundane prison house, the citadel of Durga. The wheel of karma is the instrument of punishment at this place. The work of purifying these penalized jivas is the duty devolved upon Durga. She is incessantly engaged in discharging the same by the will of Govinda. When, luckily. the forgetfulness of Govinda on the part of imprisoned jivas is remarked by them by coming in contact with self-realized souls and their natural aptitude for the loving service of Krsna is aroused, Durga herself then becomes the agency of their deliverance by the will of Govinda. So it behooves everybody to obtain the guileless grace of Durga, the mistress of this prison house, by propitiating her with the selfless service of Krsna. The boons received from Durga in the shape of wealth, property, recovery from illness, of wife and sons, should be realized as the deluding kindness of Durga. The mundane psychical jubilations of dasa-maha-vidya, the ten goddesses or forms of Durga, are elaborated for the delusion of the fettered souls of this world. Jiva is a spiritual atomic part of Krsna. When he forgets his service of Krsna he is at once deflected by the attracting power of Maya in this world, who throws him into the whirlpool of mundane fruitive activity (karma) by confining him in a gross body constituted by the five material elements, their five attributes and eleven senses, resembling the garb of a prisoner. In this whirlpool jiva has experience of happiness and miseries, heaven and hell. Besides this, there is a subtle body. consisting of the mind, intelligence and ego, inside the gross body. By means of the subtle body. the jiva forsakes one gross body and takes recourse to another. The jiva cannot get rid of the subtle body. full of nescience and evil desires, unless and until he is liberated. On getting rid of the subtle body he bathes in the Viraja and goes up to Hari-dhama. Such are the duties performed by Durga in accordance with the will of Govinda. In the Bhagavata sloka, vilajyamanaya... durdhiyah--the relationship between Durga and the conditioned souls has been described.

Durga, worshiped by the people of this mundane world, is the Durga described above. But the spiritual Durga, mentioned in the mantra which is the outer covering of the spiritual realm of the Supreme Lord, is the eternal maidservant of Krsna and is, therefore, the transcendental reality whose shadow, the Durga of this world, functions in this mundane world as her maidservant. (Vide the purport of sloka 3.)












ksiram yatha dadhi vikara-visesa-yogat

sanjayate na hi tatah prthag asti hetoh

yah sambhutam api tatha samupaiti karyad

govindam adi-purusam tam aham bhajami


ksiram--milk; yatha--as; dadhi--yogurt; vikara-visesa--of a special transformation; yogat--by the application; sanjayate--is transformed into; na--not; hi--indeed; tatah--from the milk; prthak--separated; asti--is; hetoh--which is the cause; yah--who; sambhutam--the nature of Lord Siva; api--also; tatha--thus; samupaiti--accepts; karyat--for the matter of some particular business; govindam--Govinda; adi-purusam--the original person; tam--Him; aham--I; bhajami--worship.



Just as milk is transformed into curd by the action of acids, but yet the effect curd is neither same as, nor different from, its cause, viz., milk, so I adore the primeval Lord Govinda of whom the state of Sambhu is a transformation for the performance of the work of destruction.



(The real nature of Sambhu, the presiding deity of Mahesa-dhama, is described.) Sambhu is not a second Godhead other than Krsna. Those, who entertain such discriminating sentiment, commit a great offense against the Supreme Lord. The supremacy of Sambhu is subservient to that of Govinda; hence they are not really different from each other. The nondistinction is established by the fact that just as milk treated with acid turns into curd so Godhead becomes a subservient when He Himself attains a distinct personality by the addition of a particular element of adulteration. This personality has no independent initiative. The said adulterating principle is constituted of a combination of the stupefying quality of the deluding energy, the quality of nonplenitude of the marginal potency and a slight degree of the ecstatic-cum-cognitive principle of the plenary spiritual potency. This specifically adulterated reflection of the principle of the subjective portion of the Divinity is Sadasiva, in the form of the effulgent masculine-symbol-god Sambhu from whom Rudradeva is manifested. In the work of mundane creation as the material cause, in the work of preservation by the destruction of sundry asuras and in the work of destruction to conduct the whole operation, Govinda manifests Himself as guna-avatara in the form of Sambhu who is the separated portion of Govinda imbued with the principle of His subjective plenary portion. The personality of the destructive principle in the form of time has been identified with that of Sambhu by scriptural evidences that have been adduced in the commentary. The purport of the Bhagavata slokas, viz., vaisnavanam yatha sambhuh, etc., is that Sambhu, in pursuance of the will of Govinda, works in union with his consort Durgadevi by his own time energy. He teaches pious duties (dharma) as stepping-stones to the attainment of spiritual service in the various tantra-sastras, etc., suitable for jivas in different grades of the conditional existence. In obedience to the will of Govinda, Sambhu maintains and fosters the religion of pure devotion by preaching the cult of illusionism (Mayavada) and the speculative agama-sastras. The fifty attributes of individual souls are manifest in a far vaster measure in Sambhu and five additional attributes not attainable by jivas are also partly found in him. So Sambhu cannot be called a jiva. He is the lord of jiva but yet partakes of the nature of a separated portion of Govinda.


Commentaries by Srila Bhaktivinoda Thakura

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In case anyone sees this thread, and then sees the exact same writings elsewhere

, everything posted by Krsna in this thread was written by me on another forum.


I know I already chastised Krsna for posting my stuff without citing his source, but I found this on a google search for a quote, and I just wanted to make sure that anyone who reads this, and then sees the same thing elsewhere, knows that I didn't plagiarize this, it is all my original writings, except for quotes from acaryas obviously.

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This is not what Prabhupada said we are teaching, its achintya bheda bheda. I would like to know why Krsna ji posted this thread in the first place?


This kind of understanding about Krsna and Durga is very high. And to tell you the truth is very contradictory to what we've been taught. I know for a fact Jiva Goswami Maharaja is true in this. But more information is needed besides quoting a few quotes. Basically I was really peeved and still am with this thread. Anyway what can you do?

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Look, it is very simple. Krishna and his expansions are all Krishna. Durga is an expansion. Got it ? Good.

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Part 9 of "Essence of Pure Devotion"


Srila Krsnadas Kaviraja has written: Sri Vrajanandana Sri Krishna is the original Supreme Personality of Godhead above Lord Visnu. He is the complete resplendent form of ultimate existence, knowledge and supreme bliss being absolutely independent. He is the complete whole in respect to all His features. He manifests His sweet pastimes in Vraja in His original form. The devotees understand Him as the Supreme Absolute Truth and His name, form, qualities and pastimes are all transcendental. These transcendental features of the Lord are above the three modes of material nature and to call this form of the Lord as material is a great offense to the lotus feet of the Lord. Differentiation of the Lord or duality is an illusion The Lord's form is non-different from Him otherwise in contemplating that the Lord's form is illusion would mean duality which is ignorance. Lord Krishna Himself, His original incarnations (Vilasa) pastimes expansions are all transcendental and are seen in the light of non-dual truth. To the question of Saunaka Rsi, as to the essence of all scriptures, Suta Goswami replies: (SB 1/2/11)


vadanti tat tattva-vidas tattvam yaj jnanam advayam

brahmeti paramatmeti bhagavan iti sabdyate


The learned call the essence of truth as non-dual. The one absolute truth is known in three different aspects, firstly as Brahman (or effulgence); secondly as the Supersoul in the heart and thirdly as Bhagavan or the Supreme Lord Himself. The Pundits (jnanis) reject all association with material nature as false or non-existent and identify the truth as the formless effulgence of the Lord called Brahman. The yogis however, with their one-pointed minds, locate Him, the Supreme Truth, as the form of the Supersoul in the heart devoid of any pastimes. The devotees view te Supreme Lord in His complete feature of knowledge, existence and bliss and exulting in unique loving pastimes with His associates. Amongst the devotees of the Supreme Lord, the confidential devotees of Lord Krishna who taste the sweetness of loving pastimes in Vraja stand 0out as most superior in preference to those who loving moods of servitorship are tinged with awe and reverence. In this context, just as one very far away can only perceive the effulgence of the sun, similarly the learned pundits, not being able to behold the attractive form of Lord Syamasundar, are able to perceive only the shining effulgence emanating form the Supreme Lord. The yogis understand the form of the all pervading Lord as present in the hearts of the innumerable living entities and as the Supersoul in the heart. The devotees, by following the process of devotional service, are able to see the Lord's forming truth and amongst such devotees, those in the spontaneous loving moods, free from awe and reverence, can only be so fortunate visualize the pure, transcendental form of Sri Krishna.


ete camsa-kalah pumsah krsnas tu bhagavan svayam

indrari-vyakulam lokam mrdayanti yuge yuge


Sri Rama, Lord Nrshimadeva, etc, are part of the incarnations of Vishnu or part of the part but Lord Sri Krishna is the original Supreme Lord. He incarnates from age to age to rescue the demigods like Lord Indra from the oppression of the demons. As in C. Charimtamrta Adi (2/89/0), the one candle which originally lights all the other candles, has the characteristic of being the original candle. Similarly, in this way Lord Sri Krishna is the fundamental original persons and all are His expansions. In Gita too (14/21) the Supreme Lord says He is the basis for Brahman which is under His shelter. In Gita (10/42)


atha va bahunaitena kim jnatena tavarjuna

vistabhyaham idam krtsnam, ekamsena sthito jagat


In this verse, it mentions the Supreme Lord is existing in one part as the Supersoul in the heart of all living entities which is meditated upon by the yogis. He is also celebrated as the Supreme Person (Purusottama) in His original form. The Kapila deva who founded the atheistic philosophy refers to creation as the ordinary combination of masculine and feminine gender. In Gita (9/10), the Supreme Lord informs Arjuna that the material nature is always subordinate to Him and is one of His multifarious energies. But at the same time under His direction material nature is able to produce the living and non living entities. The Lord is in the form of purified goodness, being transcendental and has no direct connection with material nature. Maha-Vishnu lying the Causal Ocean from far away casts a glance on material nature by which the material nature becomes agitated to produce this world of living and non-living things. Thus the mere glance of the Supreme Lord is sufficient to create this universe. The primary cause of this creation is the Supreme Lord Krishna while the secondary cause is the material nature. As the nipples of the neck of the goat cannot give milk, similarly, without the energy of the Lord Krishna, the material nature cannot produce or create living entities. In the construction of an ornamented pot, earth is one of the ingredients, the potter is the direct cause or maker and his tools which include the potter's wheel are the secondary cause of the creation of the pot. In this way, Sri Krishna in the form of Maha-Vishnu is the main reason for creation of the universe and His implements of creation namely, time and His energies are the secondary causes. Nevertheless, the act of creation was done from very far away by Maha-Vishnu, with faint resemblance of contact by limb i.e. in this case by His direct penetrating glance.


In the conversation of Sri Kapiladeva and Devahuti (3/26/19), and also between Sri Vidura and Maitreya (3/5/26), two verses are significant:-


daivat ksubhita-dharminyam svasyam, yonau parah puman

adhatta viryam sasuta mahat-tattvam hiranmayam


The Supreme Person injects His vital fluid into the agitated material energy and from the inert material nature, the Maha-tattva was born.


kala-vrttya tu mayayam guna-mayyam adhoksajah

purusenatma-bhutena viryam adhatta viryavan


The partial expansion of Lord Maha-Vishnu, injected the living entities with His transcendental potencies in the aggrieved restless condition of material nature, by the influence of time. In the form of Maha-Vishnu, His only contact with material nature is His sweet will by which the innumerable tiny spiritual sparks are injected into material nature. Firstly, the inert initial condition of nature is called pradhana and by the glance of the Lord, the mahat-tattva is formed form the static material nature after which this Mahat-tattva when impelled by time, gives rise to three kinds of false-ego as in the modes of Goodness, Passion and ignorance respectively. The living entities, originally of spiritual constitution, become embedded in the mahat-tattva whose predominating Deity is Vasudeva. The transformation of this mahat-tattva, by the false-ego in the mode of Goodness, gives rise to the mind and the presiding Deities or demigods, the predominating Deity of this mahat-tattva, by the false-ego in the mode of Passion, develops into intelligence and the subtle senses. The Deity for this mode is Pradyumna. The transformation of the mahat-tattva in the mode of ignorance gives rise to the five elements and the tan-mantras (sound, touch, sight). The predominating Deity for this mode is Sankarshana.

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Srila Prabhupada's Nectar of Devotion,


Introduction :


“When we speak of “Krishna” we refer to the Supreme Personality of Godhead, along with His many expansions. He is expanded by His plenary parts and parcels, His differentiated parts and parcels and His different energies. “Krishna,” in other words, means everything and includes everything.


Generally, however, we should understand “Krishna” to mean Krishna and His personal expansions. These are described in the Srimad-Bhagavatam to be as numerous as the uncountable waves. So Krishna includes all such expansions, as well as His pure devotees. In the Brahma-samhita it is stated that Krishna’s expansions are all complete in eternity, blissfulness and cognizance."

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The two kinds of expansions from the Supreme Personality of Godhead are :

1. svamsa (personal expansions) and

2. vibhinnamsa (separate persons).


The svamsa expansions are unlimitedly powerful. Their form and personality are the same as the Supreme Personality of Godhead Himself.


There is not the slightest difference between the svamsa expansions and the Original Personality of Godhead. The vibhinnamsa expansions are very weak in comparison to Them.




And this in Cc




sei vibbhinamsa jiva - dui ta' prakara

eka - "nitya-mukta," eka - "nityasamsara"

"nityamukta,sri - nitya krsna-carane unmukha

"krsna-parisada" - nama, bhu-je sevasukha

"nitya-baddha" - krsna-haite nitya-bahirmukha

nitya-samsara bhu-je, narakaki-dumkha

sei dose maya-pisaci danda kare tare

adhyatmikadi tapatraya tare jari' mare


The living entities (jivas) are divided into two categories. Some are eternally liberated, and others are eternally conditioned. Those who are eternally liberated are always awake to Krsna consciousness, and they render transcendental loving service at the feet of Sri Krsna. They are to be considered eternal associates of Krsna, and they are eternally enjoying the transcendental bliss of serving Krsna. Apart from the ever-liberated devotees, there are the conditioned souls who always turn away from the service of the Lord. They are perpetually conditioned in this material world and are subjected to the material tribulations brought about by different bodily forms in hellish conditions. Due to his being opposed to Krsna consciousness, the conditioned soul is punished by the witch of the external energy, maya. He is thus ready to suffer the threefold miseries - miseries brought about by the body and mind, the inimical behavior of other living entities, and natural disturbances brought about by the demigods.

(Caitanya-Caritamrta Madhya 22.10-13)


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