Death for bhakti

[Pankaja_Dasa 1]

 

The only other person 'disguised ritvik.' is Living Entity.

 

But you know that already. Don't you?

[theist 1]

What is a disguised ritvik?

[Pankaja_Dasa 1]

 

 

This is of no particular person:

 

They say they are in 'Iskcon'. Slowly they say they are no pure devotees in the World. But you may find who nos? Right?

 

Mental manipulation games..they don't want you to know who or what they are about. Secrets and lies. Then booom.

 

Why don't you goto Bangalore Prabhuji?

 

Oh that IRM devotee {who blashpemes devotees is ok really}.

 

We though are not Ritivks. Oh no don't say we are. No. We are just following Prabhupada orders. We are NOT ritivks. Don't Prabhu fight so much. Now I just think they devotees and so am I. But I know I don't trust people so much. To much secretative persons {who are devotees} may have hidden agenda. Vaishnava's are open people thats the conclusion.

 

 

[Guest guest]

Regarding this signature which apparently infuriates Anadi:

 

... disciplic succession does not always mean that one has to be initiated officially. Disciplic succession means to accept the disciplic conclusion. -letter to Dinesh 1969

 

Please note the word "always". There are exceptions to ALL rules. Our God is a personal one that often contradicts Himself, even lies. None of us are in a position to tell Him what he must do or not do. This applies also to the relationships between gurus and their disciples. Remember the "prodigal son" story in the Christian bible...oh, I forgot that's not "bonafide" scripture. Pity, you may have learned something from it. Nothing, I repeat NOTHING, is worse than criticism of a vaisnava, however 'fallen' they may appear. As for whose a vaisnava, well the proper attitude would be everyone but me. You may want to try that on for size, Anadi prabhu.

[theist 1]

Pankaja,

it is becoming harder and harder to for me to get a grasp on what you are saying. I guess you are just advancing off into the distance. Nothing wrong with that.

 

I think it would be wise to leave LE's name out of the conversation unless you have something positive to say.

 

I used to keep a little sign on my desk "Gossip is poison." I think I will make another one.

[Pankaja_Dasa 1]

 

 

Hahahha. Sorry prabhu. Yeah I must be advancing LOL.

 

I am just debating. I will leave LE name out of it. I know its late. Don't tell anybody I chanted ok?

[anadi 0]

 

... disciplic succession does not always mean that one has to be initiated officially. Disciplic succession means to accept the disciplic conclusion. -letter to Dinesh 1969

 

Please note the word "always". There are exceptions to ALL rules.

 

 

 

Yes, this is the clue, but theist, wants to stress this exception, by make it visible in every of his post, as it would be a rule. Which is certainly not. This is his deceitfulness, and ritvik atitude, in a disguised mode. (Wich means, apparently he agreads that one has to accept a guru, or better said the guru must accept you, but he says no, no there is no need, and this I'll stress it in all my post. This makes him a ritvik, a concealed one, one who is against the root cause of the janma bhakti and the mukya anga to attain krishna prema, expressed in his famous ritvik sentence:

²Consulting guru is done every time we read a Prabhupada purport."

.

[Guest guest]

http://www.bvml.org/SBPKM/sss.htm

[shambu 0]

on "Prabhupadanuga."

 

http://www.purebhakti.com/lectures/lecture20040518a.shtml

 

Comments or questions?

[krsna 3]

awesome quote by Srila Prabhupada:

 

In 1977 May 17 ar.VRN Conversations:

 

Prabhupada: " So I cannot speak. I am feeling very weak. I was to go to other places like Chandigarh program, but I cancelled the program because the condition of my health is very deteriorating. So I preferred to come to Vrndavana. If death takes place, let it take here. So there is nothing to be said new. Whatever I have to speak, I have spoken in my books. Now you try to understand it and continue your endeavor. Whether I am present or not present, it doesn't matter. As Krsna is living eternally, similarly, living being also lives eternally. But KIRTIR YASYA SA JIVATI: "ONE WHO HAS DONE SERVICE TO THE LORD LIVES FOREVER." So you have been taught to serve Krsna, and with Krsna we'll live eternally. Our life is eternal. Na hanyate hanyamane sarire. A temporary disappearance of this body, it doesn't matter. Body is meant for disappearance. Tatha dehantara-praptih. So live forever by serving Krsna. Thank you very much."

[theist 1]

 

Whatever I have to speak, I have spoken in my books. Now you try to understand it and continue your endeavor.

 

 

Yes, wonderful quote. And every time I read I see something new. It is not like one gets the feeling of coming closer to a complettion point it is like the books get bigger and bigger expanding as we go.

[theist 1]

Sastriya Sadhu-sanga

by Srila Bhakti Prajnana Kesava Gosvami Maharaja

 

This is the article that the link guest has left leads to. I bookmarked it to be read more times.

 

Thank you, now to Shambu's.

 

[anadi 0]

The one who thinks that bhakti is reading books he deceives himseslf and others, if he emphasize that this is bhakti, he is only a cheater.

 

Of course, everybody has attained a certain level of shraddha. But one should see where is he, at all, has he really understood the pure devotee?

 

did he started bhakti? just quoting some conversations and some letters, but not paying attention to basic siddhanta?

 

gurpadasrayas tasmat krsna diksadi siksanam

 

In bhakti RasAmRta Sindhu Srila Rupa Gosvami defining the angas of bhakti,

starts with Sri guru padaSraya, which means that first one should go to guru and take shelter of His lotus feet. What is the meaning of that?

Jiva Gosvami says:

 

yo mantra sa guruh sAkSat yo guru sa harih svayam

gurur yasya bhavet tuStas tasya tuSto harih svayam

 

By the process of initiation (dikSa), the mantras (the transcendental sounds) given are the Self of the guru.

What is the meaning? yo mantra sa guruh sAkSat, means that the transcendental mood of the guru is given through the mantra (the transcendental sound)

yo guru sa harih svayam and the guru is directly the Supreme Lord Hari. How?

 

Srila KRSNa dasa Kaviraja Gosvami says

 

guru KRSNa rupa hana Sastrera pramane

guru rupe KRSNa kRpa karena bhakta gane

 

guru (the one that gives initiation - dikSa) is directly the outward form of KRSNa's form (KRSNa rupa) and

and guru is the form that KRSNa's mercy (KRSNa kRpa) takes for the bhakta.

 

And further Srila KRSNa dasa Kaviraja Gosvami says

 

SikzA guruke ta' jani KRSNera svarupa

 

Sikza guru is the internal form of KRSNa (KRSNera svarupa)

And as there is no difference between KRSNa rupa and KRSNa svarupa,

in the same way one should not see any difference beween dikSa and Sikza guru.

gurpadasrayas tasmat krsna diksadi siksanam

 

You don't understand at least through the head, what is guru-vani, this is transcendental sound, that is why one should practice the aural reception from the lips of bhavuka (that one in who's citta bhava has arisen), rasika (the one who tastes bhakti rasa) bhakta.

 

Bhakti is not an intellectual proscess.

 

[theist 1]

Of course when i read any of these lectures or writing i understand that I am missing most of what is there. It goes over my head. But i pick up some light at least.

 

One thing he objects to the term Prabhupadanuga. I would also if those using that term are trying to cut Prabhupada off into a separate sphere apart from Rupa Gosvami and the rest of the parampara. I have never received the impression that Prabhupada saw himself that way, even if at one time some of his Godbrothers did.

 

But if they mean to emphasize the fact the Prabhupada taught in a way that is more in harmony with the present time place and circumstance of this modern and westernized world, then they may be using the term out of respect for that and not wanting to try "jumping over" his instructions.

 

But I am ceratinly not bothered by the term itself.

 

 

[Pankaja_Dasa 1]

 

 

Maybe say this and Anadi will leave you alone;)

 

Whats the story where its says don't neglect any vaishnava's. And Maharaja Yudhistara couldn't perform sacrifice. All I ever asked from Prabhupada and Nitai is I want to serve Vaishnava's. So how can I serve YOU?

[Guest guest]

When devotees speak to each other, the entire purport of transcendental relationship, as described in Nectar of Instruction should be preswent. There is no nectar in reading articles that cannot even address whom he is speaking to. Guru complex? Why do I have to read "Theist thinks....", as if thousands of folks were awaiting explanation and translation by the authority of this topic.

 

No, sir, there is no one else here. You are speaking TO, theist, not having a debate with victory and defeat on the line.

 

The stuff you say may be well true, and I do appreciate your blue quote, but you need to learn how to deal with devotees of all three types. those less advanced, those equal in advancement, and those who are more advanced. This is the meaning of the verse you cite on all your posts, one should not disregard the vaisnavas.

 

 

As far as what Love of god is, one who has it can be recognized by developed symptomology, and is fully described by Srila Prabhupada in his books, especially NoD, NoI, TLC, SB and BGAII. Even the bums in the gutter are attracted to the nectar eminating from the lips of the Vaisnava. Krsna Katha is attractive, otherwise, its someone else's katha.

 

Hare Krsna, ys, mahaksadasa

[Guest guest]

"...Whatever I have to speak, I have spoken in my books. Now you try to understand it and continue your endeavor..."

 

Yes, the full map IS in his books, just right for the time and place he appeared, but "endeavor" means actually REALIZING and thereby ACTING accordingly, not simply reading and trying to understand on the mental platform.

 

By all means consult the map to aid in one's journey, however using it to imagine oneself travelling, or even worse speculating on parts of it taken out of context as a means to validate the false ego, was certainly NEVER Srila Prabhupada's intention.

 

Those who misuse his books, preaching to gratify themselves or establish some respected position within the association of like-minded 'devotees', are conveniently taking advantage of his no longer being physically present, for their own purposes, much as many self-proclaimed 'christians' do.

 

Donning religious faith like a security blanket, they huddle together to justify each other, becoming another stumbling block for truly sincere seekers on the path to truth. What was the use of Prabhupada speaking any more than he already had or remaining with us, when it had become increasingly obvious that he'd done all he could with what he had to work with?

 

Now it's more evident still that whatever is given by God/guru can easily be misused to cheat oneself and others. Such is the nature of this material world/consciousness, especially in the age of "quarrel and hypocrisy". What's more, EVERYONE is contaminated, therefore constant vigilance and a determined effort is required just to hold our ground, let alone actually advance. Children play so many fantasy games mature adults have lost their taste for...

[Guest guest]

 

But if they mean to emphasize the fact the Prabhupada taught in a way that is more in harmony with the present time place and circumstance of this modern and westernized world, then they may be using the term out of respect for that and not wanting to try "jumping over" his instructions.

 

But I am ceratinly not bothered by the term itself.

 

 

Searching for, finding and applying the essence of our parampara teachings is NOT "jumping over". Not being "bothered" keeps us static as years fly by and these bodies waste away. Contentment and self-satisfaction are two entirely different states of consciousness. Greed [lobha] is the main impetus for raganuga bhakti, essential in appreciating Lord Caitanya and serving His purpose. "What, me worry...?"

[Guest guest]

Of course I should not react to your continuing bombardment with denigrations, ridiculing and just trying to change the subject. The matter of fact, as you said, who cares about the truth of "my posts". We just wanna have a good time here.

I have no apology for reacting heavy on theist?

He continues to post always that one not need to be accepted as a disciple, as if Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Prabhupada, have not faught to death to be accepted as a disciple by Gaura-Kishor dasa Babaji.

We should meditate on the message of this lila.

The conclusion is that we should look for a pure devotee, and try to be accepted as disciples.

 

But as theist said we want to have fun: yastiti nastiti.

Who cares about the thruth?

 

And in an hostile atmosphere (denigrations, ridiculing and just trying to change the subject), truth is toxic.

 

 

[anadi 0]

Previous post by anadi.

Toxic nectar.

 

In the begining is bitter as pita, but in the end is sweet as madhu.

[anadi 0]

According Srila Jiva Gosvami guru has three different functions.

But still many consider that guru has only one function: Sravan guru, and they make a tremendous propaganda in this direction, disregarding our tattva acarya, Srila Jiva Gosvami.

 

By the mercy of my Gurudeva, and all guru parampara, I will try to speak about the second function of guru: dikSa, as this subject has been delineated through rupAnuga guru varaga and Sastra.

 

First, what is dikSa?

divyam jJAnaM yato dadyAt kuryAt pApasya saNKzayam

tasmat dikzeti sA proktA diSikais tatttva kovidaiH

 

That which bestow transcendental knowledge -divyam jJAnaM yato dadyAt

and destroys sins, the seed of sins and destroys avidyA to the root is called dikSa by tattva learned authourities.

 

 

What says Srila RaghunAtha dAsa GosvAmi in his first Sloka on manaH SikzA

 

gurau goSThe goSTAlayizu sujane bhUsura-gaNe

sva-mantre Sri namni vraja-nava-yuva-dvandva-Sarane

sadA dambhaM hitvA kuru ratim apUrvAm atitarA-

maye svAntar bhrAtaS caTubhir abhiyAce dhrita-padaH

 

aye bhratah - O brother; svantah - mind; dhrta –padah holding your feet; abhiyace I am praying;

catubhih - with sweet words; sada - always; hitvtA- giving up; dambham- pride; atitaram- exceedingly; kuru - adopt; apurvam- unprecedented; ratim- spiritual attachment; gurau- in Sri.

Gurudeva; gosthe- in Vraja-dhama; gostalayisu - in the Vraja-dhama; sujane - in the Vaisnavas; bh.sura-gaNe - in the brAhmaNas; sva-mantre- in one’s own dikSA-mantras; Sri-nAmni- in Sri harinAma; vraja-nava-yuva-dvandva-SaraNe (and) in the shelter of the new youthful couple of Vraja.

 

So, one should also pray with sweet words to his mind to adopt unprecedented and sublime spiritual attachment for the diksa mantras he received from his gurudeva.

Would that be not so important, than Srila RaghunAtha dAsa GosvAmi would have not mention it quite in the beginning of His Teachings to the mind.

[Pankaja_Dasa 1]

 

Yes, the full map IS in his books, just right for the time and place he appeared, but "endeavor" means actually REALIZING and thereby ACTING accordingly, not simply reading and trying to understand on the mental platform.

--

 

Anyone atcually ever get to where they are going by merely looking in a map. Or did they have to ask somebody on thier way? {The guru perhaps?} All this misquoting makes me fume in anger, its killing Guru Parampara....

[theist 1]

 

Yes, the full map IS in his books, just right for the time and place he appeared,

 

 

But now outdated and irrelevant huh? Think what you like. I will do the same. To me you are irrelevant.

 

Since his books are translations of timeless sastra and commentary on the same I will choose to disagree with your offensive speculations.

 

If Krsna will be kind to me then he will allow me to pass this body with my consciousness absorbed in a Bhaktivedanta purport.

[Guest guest]

 

But now outdated and irrelevant huh? Think what you like. I will do the same. To me you are irrelevant.

 

 

Easy now, Your Relevance, don't put words in my mouth. Most of us here admit to being mired in ignorance, no need to be proud of it though or spray mud on others. Might want to just drop the obstinance and broaden your shastric horizons a bit, at least to include the parampara Srila Prabhupada appeared in, from the Goswamis on.

 

You know, leave your 'Christian' bible studies for awhile and become a genuine "essence seeker" as Srila Bhaktivinode Thakur recommends, however not through mental speculation, rather by wholly depending on His Divine Grace. Surely after all these years, you've realize She hasn't isolated Herself to AC Bhaktivedanta Swami, great as he obviously is?

 

Of course, that usually calls for a certain change in attitude, not to mention sincerity along with intense persistence. Maybe want to spend some quality time with those Berkely deities, while they're still accessible. The understanding we seek is certainly achievable, only not through our own feeble efforts, but by now you must already be aware of that.

[Guest guest]

it is imperative that HKs forget all about Christianity and Islam and such inferior religions, and focus entirely on krsna. There is so much to learn from Vedas that we don;t need to waste time acting as defense counsel for rotten semitic religions. Just my two cents.