Did the war of Kurukshetra happen because of krsnas will?

[merkaba 0]

If you think about it, if the war of the Kurukshetra would never happen, the baghvada gita would be spoken by krishna to arijuna, and things would be way different.

 

As Krishna, is the conciouness of all man, did he arranged for this battle to happpen, just so he can speak to arjuna about the knowledge of the abosulete?

 

 

[Guest guest]

leaf moves without krsna's will.

[gHari 0]

 

While modern authors might write a book or play or produce a movie, our Sri Krsna uses maya to create His masterpieces, and even to train us to perfect our love of God.

 

Words in a book, scenery in a play, this world is little more. It is a multimedia communication tool for the soul and the Supersoul, between jiva and Guru - a biological virtual reality training platform.

 

 

Neo Unplugged

 

 

 

[Kulapavana 0]

some things happen because Lord Krishna wants them to happen, and some because He allows them to happen. who can fathom Krishna's desires?

 

you can say that the battle of Kurukshetra happened because the Earth was overburdened with proud and cruel kshatriyas and this battle was chosen by Krishna to be the best remedy for this situation. but there is much, much more to it... study Mahabharata patiently (definitely read the full edition) and with time it will all be clear.

[Guest guest]

Haribol, folks. Im one of those who does not hate King Duryodhana, knowing that He was a great devotee of Lord Balarama. Kuruksetra happened because Duryodhana did not give King Yudhisthira a land measure that could fit on the tip of a pin.

 

Some may accuse Duryodhana of being excessively greedy, not wanting to part with such a miniscule request from King Yudhisthira, but there is a reason for this. Had duryodhana given Yudhisthira enough land to fit on the tip of a pin, this would have been all the land in the entire universe. All the demigods would have built their palaces there, all the great kings from the three planetary systems would have made pilgrimage to give the pandavas tribute.

 

Duryodhana was no fool. In order for the ksatriya dharma to play out in such a wonderful pastime of Lord Krsna, nothing could ever be conceeded to the great King of the Pandavas. Monsoons devastate, but bring life as well.

 

BTW, not only Arjuna was directly spoken to by Krsna, the Bhagavad Gita and all realizations on the chariot, the full guru disciple relationship between Krsna and arjuna, another was allowed full access to the glorious revelation. And this person was Duryodhanas friend and mentor, Sri Sanjaya. Duryodhanas passing was glorious in the crystal lake, and he passed away regretting horrible crimes committed by the kuru general aswattama. Sanjaya counseled Duryodhana at the time of death, and duryodhana spoke a very wonderful story looking upon Death Herself.

 

Hare Krsna, ys, mahaksadasa

[Guest guest]

That was so moving, it makes Duryodhana more human and not a monster that they make him out to be. He must've been a real hero during those times. He and Karna were the best in their professions, second only to balarama and parasurama respectively. Still, the war did happen and the gita was spoken and yet, life goes on and people dont seem to change for the better. In fact, things are only getting worse in the kali yuga. It is not easy to understand krsna's plan.

[Pankaja_Dasa 1]

 

 

Did the war not start because of offence to Sri Draupadi {devotee of Krishna}.

 

Everybody was killed..Bhisma/Drona/Karna{elder brother of Pandavas {they did not know} Duryodhana, entire Kaurava's.

 

Almost all were killed. Is this favouritism by Krishna?

 

Or is this to teach us all a lesson. To not offend devotee even if you are one yourself.?

[Guest guest]

Srimati Draupadi is the real hero of the Vaisnava. She is also called Krsna, and if one wants Krsna, she can immediately give him in full. She certainly forgives the offence, as sure as she spared the life of the one who brutally killed he five sleeping sons.

 

Kuruksetra was not fought because of the offense. Kuruksetra was faought because Krsna desired, even Lord Balarama had no way of preventing.

 

One must understand ksatriya dharma to understand duryodhana, karna, etc. Kuruksetra could have been prevented if Srimati Kuntidevi simply told the pandavas that Karna was her son. They would have made Him full king, and the world would have been His alone.

 

All these things, yudhisthiras lie to drona, the anger between Krsna and Balarama, arjunas nervous breakdown, all was influenced by not only mahamaya, but a certain amount of yogamaya as well.

 

Hare Krsna, ys, mahaksadasa

[Pankaja_Dasa 1]

 

Krishna approaced Karna and asked him. That he could be made king. But he refuced to say he was indebted to Duryodhana. So Srimati Kunti-devi knew about this.

[Guest guest]

Read carefully. Kunti knew and Krsna knew, but Kuntis desire is krsnas desire, so the fact that Karna was the brother of the pandavas was kept from the pandavas. This is the intrigue of ksatriya dharma.

 

Arjuna could not have fought and would not have fought against Karna. The only way the war could be fought was to hide thr truth from arjuna. The truth was also a casualty of this war (as it is in all wars since the beginning of time) in many cases. King Bhisma could never be killed in war, and everyone knew this. Only Krsna could take Bhismas life, and even though Krsna promised to be a non-combatant, chariot driver only, He lied, and killed King Bhisma, a transcendental event that is way beyond the morality of truth and lies.

 

King Yudhisthira, the pure incarnation of truth itself, Lord Yamaraja Himself, also lied. King Yudhisthira was so imbued with truth that his feet did not touch the ground. But He lied as well, he killed an elephant named aswattama, and loudly proclaimed so Drona (Aswattama's father) could hear, "Aswattama is dead". Drona, the military teacher and guru of all combatants on both sides of this war, could also never be killed by his lesser students, but when he heard Yudhisthiras proclamation that his son was dead, so clear was his trust in yudhisthiras truthfulness, he lost his will to fight at a critical moment, and was slain by a life-long enemy (whose name escapes me, but I believe it was Draupadis brother, drstadyumna). At that exact moment, yudhisthira descended to the earth plain, his feet touching the earth for the first time.

 

There were no saints and sinners in this war. Everyone of them were transcendental associates of the Supreme Lord. They denied His requests by His will. As much friendship existed between duryodhana and Lord Balarama as existed between Arjuna and Krsna, so how can we call Him demoniac. Just like in a movie or play, and we see after the productions final act, the dead villian and the hero with the fair maiden have a fine dinner together, so it was with the characters in the arena in which the song of God (bhagavad Gita) was sung. This is Krsnas Play, and it is a blockbuster of transcendental proportions. To understand a fraction of the intent of this pastime of Lord Krsna is to become an active participant in such wonderful activities in the road show, opening daily in the universe near you.

 

Hare Krsna, ys, mahaksadasa

[Pankaja_Dasa 1]

 

 

SB.2.5.17 Purport {extract}

 

The Battle of Kuruksetra, or any other battle at any place or at any time, is made by the will of the Lord, for no one can arrange such mass annihilation without the sanction of the Lord. The party of Duryodhana insulted Draupadi, a great devotee of Krsna, and she appealed to the Lord as well as to all the silent observers of this unwarranted insult. Arjuna was then advised by the Lord to fight and take credit; otherwise the party of Duryodhana would be killed anyway by the will of the Lord. So Arjuna was advised just to become the agent and take the credit for killing great generals like Bhisma and Karna.

---

 

How can we look upon duroyadhana as not evil? It would be like looking upon Hiranyakashipu as pious. This is realization of pure devotee. We can't do that right now.

 

Lord Balarama is transencendental to say because He did so, doesn't exactly mean we should. Sorry.

[Guest guest]

Haribol. If one reads Srimad Bhagawatam, one can also see that Hiranyakasipu is also not a great demon, per se. He is a gatekeeper of Lord Narayana, who mistook the four Kumaras as ordinary children. They were given a token curse to either appear as devotees seven times, or demons three times. They chose demon, because they would get to be killed in each case by their beloved Lord Narayana.

 

So, we see Hiranyakasipu as a player in Krsnas pastimes. (Hiranyaksa, Ravanna, Kamsa, Jagai and Madhai are the other demoniac appearances of the gatekeepers, Jaya and Vijaya). Ordinary evil folks do not have such opportunity to be engaged in transcendental battle with Krsna.

 

Of course, we look at the evil deeds of these personalities, and we are certainly aghast. But Krsna has written their scripts, directs their actions, etc. So we dont approve of duryodhanas actions seemingly caused by great envy of the stalwart Pandavas, nor is Ravannasuras actions approved. But these are definitely great devotees given the opportunity to act in a chivalrous RASA with the supreme lord. Sri Krsna does not select ordinary, confused, sleeping souls to have a war with Him. Only his unalloyed servants interact directly with Him.

 

The item you mentioned, the insult of Srimati Draupadi, was one seventh of the reasons to fight. There are seven crimes that deserve capital punishment, and duryodhana did all seven, including arson while the residents are sleeping, administering poison, assault of ones wife, and I cannot remember the others, but all the crimes would have justified capital punishment.

 

Please do not pit me against my spiritual master by trying to prove me wrong. I am trying to convey perhaps another vision that comes from the exact teachings of Srila Prabhupada. I have not spoken counter to his teachings, so please do not run to the data base to try to embarass, because I do not get embarassed.

 

Hare Krsna, ys, mahaksadasa

[Pankaja_Dasa 1]

 

After reading what you said and contemplating. I see now. Sometimes when a devotee says something you expect to know everything from all levels. I am not ready to know certain things. Sorry for being so ignorant, next time I will listen. I am on different consiousness from you. So I should have listened. Very embarresed I am now.

[merkaba 0]

So what I understand is

 

that everything happens because of krishnas will, and we never decide for ourself, and no matter what we do and what decision we make, at the end, krishna will be supreme.

 

IF someone woul fall in love with me, it would be because of lord uma's will to fall in love with me, and same goes for me.

 

And if someone dies, it will be lord shivas decision?

 

is this thinking correct?

Is that how I should few life?

[Pankaja_Dasa 1]

 

Hey are you talking about Krishna or some Girl?

 

Get your head straight! We all have independance, just see..

 

What kind of independance you have?

[Guest guest]

Haribol, Pankaja, no harm at all, and no need to be embarassed. These forums are used by many folks to

 

1. Practice their preaching skills

 

2. Debate controversial (i.e. political) issues

 

3. Engage in Krsna Katha

 

When is comes to mahabharata and other of the great stories involving casts of millions, there are, indeed, many different levels we can look at, not to debate, but to discuss with the intent of actually enjoying stuff that is spiritually enjoyable. This is where I was going by proposing that Duryodhana was not just a demon like the fools we run into every day. His demoniac nature was a kind of empowerment by Krsna so that His pastimes as a ksatriya warrior could be carried out.

 

So my catagory here was to engage in krsna katha.

 

Now, if I were doing #1 above, practicing my preaching skills, then correction would be actually desired, not only by advanced peers, but by newcomers to this science as well. Such discussions are often necessary because we all want to be certain that we do not mislead people, and if devotees cant spot our flaw and give proper correction, who can?.

 

Catagory #2 is something I have been doing for eight years, and I have recently renounced all such discussions. Controversy means that the truth that is being discussed is not absolute, otherwise there would be no controversy. Absolute truth, above all else, must be incontrovertable. The results of debate can never be criteria for absolute truth, just adeptness at debate itself, a mundane science.

 

Anyway, thanks for discussing anything with me. I value your cyber-association, hare krsna, ys, mahaksadasa

[Guest guest]

Krsnas will is that we freely choose to be His uncionditional servant. Free choice is a symptom of pure love. If free choice was replaced by the dictatorship of pre-determination, there would not be love.

 

If someone were to fall in Love with you, this would be Krsnas arrangement, but the freedom to fall in love with you is the persons, and vis a vis.

 

If someone dies, that means they have no more use for a particular body, but there is no predetermination. Oh, Krsna knows, but you dont. Also death is falsely advertized in this materialistic society. Siva doesnot kill anyone, he is the most gentle of all the demigods. Once, Lord Brahma desired to kill everyone and fry the creation, but Siva talked him out of it. Brahma created a being in charge of Death, but even she refused to kill for both siva and brahma. So the solution was that Brahma then created war, pests, lies, disease, and this made it possible for the human beings to kill themselves, with Death waiting to treat them kindly on the other side. Lord Yamaraja also does not kill anyone, his job is to escort the being to Death, then take them to their next phase of existance, either the prison run by yamadhutas, or deliver them to Visnus representatives.

 

So even death is on the being, not god, not demigod, this is our event, like love, like procreation of the species, like all these free will things we always do.

 

Bhakti yoga means to end all frustration due to our wills not happening, because a bhakta does Krsnas will, therefore is never in anxiety about the failure-success syndrome.

 

Hare Krsna, ys, mahaksadasa (to pankaja, this is #1 above, preachin practice)

[Guest guest]

go to

 

http://www.geocities.com/mahaksadasa/bod.html

 

One of my favorite tales. Hare Krsna, ys, mahaksadasa

[Pankaja_Dasa 1]

 

Hare Krsna, ys, mahaksadasa (to pankaja, this is #1 above, preachin practice)

 

/images/graemlins/grin.gif

 

One thing I find and I see often, is. Well you can't say everything you want to say. Otherwise you would fill pages. So its more now go out and read a little. Devotees here have done the same with me. /images/graemlins/shocked.gif