Vaidhi and Raganuga - gradual or straight?

[Gaurasundara 0]

In ISKCON (and Gaudiya Math?) we are taught that the practitioner must first begin with the practice of vaidhi-bhakti, which is following all the regulative principles. After practicing in this way, spontaneous devotion (raganuga-bhakti) will arise. Quotes from Srila Prabhupada may clarify this point:

 

"Regulative principles in devotional service are meant for those who have not invoked their natural love of Godhead. When natural love arises, all regulative methods are surpassed, and pure love is exhibited between the Lord

and the devotee." - CC Adi 4.26

 

"In the beginning one has to render service strictly according to the regulative principles set forth by the revealed scriptures and spiritual master. By continuously rendering service through the process of vaidhi bhakti, one's natural inclination is gradually awakened. That is called spontaneous attraction, or raganuga bhakti." - CC Madhya 22.153

 

This is also hinted at by Srila Bhaktivinoda Thakura:

 

"On the path of gradual development the person must take care to elevate himself to a higher level, no matter on which level he is situated. By good fortune it is the nature of the soul that gradually it elevates itself, but there are obstacles such that the soul may fail to reach the goal. Thus those who desire to reach a higher standard must always be conscious of that fact. In progressing from one level of life to another two things should be considered. A person should be firmly fixed in his present position in order to take a firm step forward. Then, in order to advance to a higher level, when one foot gives up the previous place, that foot must fix itself firmly in the higher place before the other foot can raise itself to the same level. Simultaneously, the person must give up the lower level and establish himself firmly in the higher level...The general characteristic of either gradual or sudden devotion is found in vaidhi bhakti: it is favorable cultivation of Krsna, with no desire other than the desire to nourish devotion itself, and it is uncontaminated by jnana or karma." Sri Caitanya Siksamrita, Chapter 3.

 

However, this seems to differ from the opinion of Srila Rupa Gosvami:

 

vaidhI-rAgAnugA-mArga-bhedena parikIrtitaH |

dvividhaH khalu bhAvo’tra sAdhanAbhinivezajaH ||

 

“The paths of vaidhi and raganuga are known to be separate from each other. Engagement in these two forms of practice certainly awakens two distinct varieties of bhava.” - Bhakti-rasamrta-sindhu 1.3.7

 

What are these two distinct forms of bhava?

 

vidhi-bhaktye pArSada-dehe vaikuNThete yAya ||

 

“Through vidhi-bhakti, one will attain the form of an associate in Vaikuntha.” - CC Madhya 2.24.87

 

rAga-bhaktye vraje svayaM-bhagavAne pAya ||

 

“Through raga-bhakti, one will attain the Lord Himself in Vraja.” - CC Madhya 2.24.85

 

sakala jagate more kare vidhi-bhakti |

vidhi-bhaktye vraja-bhAva pAite nAhi zakti ||

aizvarya-jJAnete saba jagat mizrita |

aizvarya-zithila-preme nAhi mora prIta ||

 

“Everyone in this world worships Me through vidhi-bhakti. Vidhi-bhakti has no power for attaining the feelings of Vraja. The devotion of the world is mixed with knowledge of My divine prowess. I do not delight in love diluted with prowess.” - CC Adi 3.15-16

 

 

This is also confirmed in Srila Prabhupada's translations of CC. How are to follow vidhi-bhakti first and then raganuga-bhakti, when Rupa Gosvami clearly states that these paths are separate and thus separately awakens two distinct varieties of bhava? Those who follow vidhi-bhakti will achieve Vaikuntha-bhava (CC Adi 3.17) and those who follow raganuga-bhakti will achieve Vraja-bhava (CC Madhya 8.221). So what is the logic and reasoning behind the other that we should follow vidhi-bhakti first and then raganuga later?

[gHari 0]

What the reason is?

 

If you are indeed a follower of Srila Prabhupada then you wait for liberation and all falls in place.

 

I think they knew too well our fallen Kali natures and the great potential for disturbances and serious offenses in our conditioned state. Prabhupada is very emphatic about spontaneous attraction starting only at liberation. "First deserve, then desire" was his chastisement to various upstarts who had taken things very cheaply.

[stonehearted 0]

It simply requires a little grace. The quotations you provide show that vaidhi-bhakti and raganuga-bhakti are sadhanas with different sadhyas, not that they're mutually exclusive. Here's one of those dichotomies I don't trust. Vaidhi-bhakti can also be engaged in with a view to attain intimate love for Krishna. If we engage in vaidhi-bhakti with a desire to progress to direct culture of raganuga-bhakti, with a focus on chanting the holy name, we can attain that success. How? Who says? Srila Bhaktivinoda Thakura explains it in a song, "Krishna-nama dhare kata bala": vidhi-marga-rata-jane svadhinata-ratna-dane raga-marge karan pravesa: A devotee fixed in following vaidhi-bhakti attains the jewel of independence (through the grace of Krishna-nama), which places him on the path of raganuga-bhakti." Not clear enough for you? Later in the same song Sri Thakur explains that we may get experience of our inernal spiritual forms, as required for the culture of raganuga-bhakti proper, by the grace of Krishna's holy name: "When the name is even slightly revealed, it shows me my own spiritual form and characteristics. It steals my mind and takes it to Krishna's side. When the name is fully revealed, it takes me directly to Vraja, where is shows me my personal role in the eternal pastimes."

 

Buenas noches.

[Guest guest]

This premature desire to understand the lila of Krishna is due to mundane sex-life desire as we have seen amongst many of the babajis and sahajiyas in Vrindaban. Our Jagannatha das came back from Vrindaban asking me that he had heard some babaji speaking about siddha-deha and he also was listening to these babajis. So I want this immediately stopped. If it continues, this mixing with the babajis, then it will mean spoiling. In many cases, these babajis keep 2 or 3 women. Asatsanga tyagi. Their association is to be avoided and prohibited amongst all of our devotees who visit Vrindaban.

 

I hope that this meets you in good health.

Your ever well-wisher,

 

A.C.BHAKTIVEDANTA SWAMI PRABHUPADA

 

[raga 0]

I don't get it, Gaurasundara. I thought you'd read my essays at http://www.raganuga.org/ . In fact, apparently you even cite verses from there. Let me cite from "Qualification":

 

 

Though the direct cause for the awakening of greed is the hearing of narrations about the Vraja-pastimes of Sri Krishna, one must also give due consideration to the foundational cause of the phenomena.

 

kRSNa tad bhakta kAruNya mAtra lobhaika hetukA |

puSTi mArgatayA kaizcid iyaM rAgAnugocyate || (brs 1.2.309)

 

"The only causes of the appearance of sacred greed are the mercy of Sri Krishna or the mercy of His devotee. Therefore some also call the path of raganuga-bhakti with the name pusti-marga (the path of grace)."

 

Commenting on this verse, Sri Jiva Gosvami states:

 

kRSNeti ? mAtra padasya vidhi mArge kutracit karmAdi samarpaNam api dvAraM bhavatIti tad vicchedArthaH prayoga iti bhAva ||

 

"The word matra is used in the above because sometimes the offering of fruitive activities can lead to entry into vaidhi-bhakti, whereas raganuga-bhakti is only (matra) attained through grace."

 

Though the paths of vaidhi and raganuga are two distinct paths, the practice of vaidhi-bhakti can offer indirect support for the awakening of the eligibility for raganuga-bhakti, its various practices being agents which assist in the purification of the heart. In addition to grace, a certain lucidity of awareness is necessary to facilitate the appearance of the aforementioned greed.

 

yasya pUrvoktaM rAga-vizeSe rucir eva jAtAsti na tu rAga-vizeSa eva svayaM, tasya tAdRza-rAga-sudhAkara-karAbhAsa-samullasita-hRdaya-sphaTika-maNeH zAstrAdi-zrutAsu tAdRzyA rAgAtmikAyA bhakteH paripATISv api rucir jAyate | tatas tadIyaM rAgaM rucy-anugacchantI sA rAgAnugA tasyaiva pravartate || (Bhakti-sandarbha 310)

 

"When the splendour of the moonrays of raga shines upon the crystal-like heart of a person in whom a taste for the aforementioned specific raga has awakened, but who himself does not possess distinct raga, his heart rejoices. He then hears from the scriptures about such ragatmika-bhakti and consequently develops a taste for the same. Following his taste for such raga, he engages in raganuga-bhakti."

 

Just as pure crystal reflects the colours of an object placed next to it, so the heart untainted by lust, anger and mundane greed easily develops a taste for the rapturous mellows of ragatmika-bhakti. In the initial stages of the practice of raganuga-sadhana, one's practice must be mixed with vaidhi-bhakti.

 

ajAta-tAdRza-rucinA tu sad-vizeSAdara-mAtrAdRtA rAgAnugApi vaidhI-saMvalitaivAnuSTheyA | tathA loka-saMgrahArthaM pratiSThitena jAta-tAdRza-rucinA ca | atra mizratve ca yathA-yogyaM rAgAnugayaikI kRtyaiva vaidhI kartavyA || (Bhakti-sandarbha 312)

 

"Those in whom such taste (ruci) has not awakened, but who have a special interest for it, should engage in a mixture of raganuga and vaidhi. For the sake of establishing an example for the people of the world, the one in whom such ruci has awakened will do the same. Therefore, as appropriate, raganuga should be performed together with vaidhi."

 

Since at this stage ruci as the driving force behind the practice of devotion has not yet been firmly established in the heart, one must engage in the practice of mixed raganuga-sadhana out of obligation at all times, just as one would do in regular vaidhi-sadhana.</font color>

[Guest guest]

 

it's like a child growing up, when he is to young

he has certain restrictions, crossing the road alone

is not allowed he can be injured, as he gets older

and more experienced the rules change.

 

 

[stonehearted 0]

Thanks, Madhava. Well done. I'm every bit as baffled by his apparent confusion as everyone else.

[raga 0]

There is a lot to assimilate out there, for all of us. Sometimes the abundance of wisdom may be perplexing, seemingly contradictory conclusions, until we learn to put them all in the intended context.

[Gaurasundara 0]

Pardon the pun, but I was going to introduce that point gradually. /images/graemlins/wink.gif

 

One reason for discussing this subject is the analysis of the application of raganuga-bhakti in modern-day Gaudiya institutions. What is ISKCON's viewpoint on the practice of raganuga-bhakti happening within the institution? What about the Gaudiya math? And to how much extent is it different to the classical Gaudiya lines?

 

Seems to me that there are several viewpoints. After reading some of the articles of B.G. Narasingha Maharaja, he seems to claim that raganuga-bhakti is the goal of the Gaudiya Matha followers, but it evident that the understanding and method of carrying it out is highly different than what is taught in classical Gaudiya lines.

 

More tomorrow.

[Gaurasundara 0]

You didn't really understand what we are trying to discuss here, did you?

[Gaurasundara 0]

 

Does It Matter What the reason is?

 

 

Yes. I would have thought that devotees would want to analyse this philosophy. Isn't that Srila Prabhupada repeatedly enjoined us to do?

 

 

If you are indeed a follower of Srila Prabhupada then you wait for liberation and all falls in place.

 

 

This "waiting" seems to be the problem. The idea behind raganuga is that the raga makes you so greedy that you simply cannot wait to taste real raga. It makes the sadhaka impatient. Greed to taste the raga is itself the propelling factor behind raganuga-bhakti. In that light, I don't think that it is a good thing to "wait."

On the other hand, "waiting" may be applicable in the concept of "yearning." The sadhaka yearns because he has been waiting for so long and continues to wait. This form of waiting may intensify greed.

 

 

I think they knew too well our fallen Kali natures and the great potential for disturbances and serious offenses in our conditioned state.

 

 

Seems that this may turn into another discussion on the general nature of raganuga-bhakti itself. However, would you propose that the Six Goswamis did not know anything about our fallen Kali natures and our conditioned state? Do you not think they wrote all those literatures with these things in mind?

 

 

Prabhupada is very emphatic about spontaneous attraction starting only at liberation. "First deserve, then desire" was his chastisement to various upstarts who had taken things very cheaply.

 

 

All glories to Srila Prabhupada. However this particular line of reasoning was discussed some time back on another forum. The idea behind spontaneous devotion is that it is propelled only by greed to attain it. If you hear the pastimes of Krishna and you get the desire to hear more and participate in lila, that is when spontaneous devotion has arisen in you.

[Gaurasundara 0]

Dear Babhruji, thanks for your nice points.

 

 

The quotations you provide show that vaidhi-bhakti and raganuga-bhakti are sadhanas with different sadhyas, not that they're mutually exclusive. Here's one of those dichotomies I don't trust. Vaidhi-bhakti can also be engaged in with a view to attain intimate love for Krishna.

 

 

But how is that possible when Rupa Gosvami specifically states that vaidhi and raganuga are two distinct paths (dvidha sadhanabhida)? And also that following vaidhi-bhakti awakens a distinct bhava, in this case, Vaikuntha-bhava?

 

 

If we engage in vaidhi-bhakti with a desire to progress to direct culture of raganuga-bhakti, with a focus on chanting the holy name, we can attain that success. How? Who says? Srila Bhaktivinoda Thakura explains it in a song, ...

 

 

I'm thankful that you brought up the subject of Srila Bhaktivinoda Thakura, as this is the issue that I really wanted to get at.

 

Several critics of Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Thakura happily blame him for initiating several "reforms" that seem to differ from the path chalked out by the Goswamis and other Acharyas. Some of the issues raised therein relate to a difference in approach to the practice of raganuga-bhakti, introduction of varnasrama, and so many other things that they level against him. As this particular thread is concerned with the ideas behind vaidhi and raganuga, we'll stick to this. Again I'll thank you for bring up Srila Bhaktivinoda, that was an excellent point.

 

Now as I previously said, Srila Bhaktisiddhanta has been blamed for introducing a "skewed" philosophy, as the critics say, regarding the practice of raganuga-bhakti. Because of this criticism, it seems that Srila Prabhupada is also included in this criticism since his teachings generally mirror Srila Bhaktisiddhanta's on this point. One of these particular points is about how it is said that it is somehow "possible" to progress to the path of raganuga after first practicing vaidhi. Especially when they seem to differ from Rupa Gosvami's teachings on this point. I think this was exemplified in some quotes that I posted at the beginning of this thread.

 

However, I have recently been engaged in a short study of Srila Bhaktivinoda's teachings on this and connected points of philosophy. What have I discovered? It seems to be Srila Bhaktivinoda who has these teachings in his writings.

 

I might hear you say, "So what?"

 

Well, this fact provides an entirely new angle to the debate. If these ideas originated with Srila Bhaktivinoda, then this will have to silence Srila Bhaktisiddhanta's critics. Why? Why because, Srila Bhaktivinoda actively practised the system of raganuga-sadhana, siddha-pranali and ekadasa-bhava in his sadhana, and promoted them in his writings. So here we have an Acharya who is actively practising and promoting raganuga-bhakti as taught by the previous Acharyas, and yet seemingly advocating some sort of change.

 

What Srila Bhaktivinoda penned in theory, Srila Bhaktisiddhanta attempted to carry out in practice. Therefore criticism against Srila Bhaktisiddhanta on this point is unjust and unfair.

 

It's amazing what one can find out just by perusing the books of the previous Acharyas.

 

As I mentioned to Ragaji earlier, my specific interest is about how these ideas translate themselves when being implemented in institutions, specifically Gaudiya Math and ISKCON. I find it interesting that you speak of dichotomies. Not only is there a dichotomy between vaidhi and raganuga, but there seem to be dichotomies within these two fields also. Absolutely amazing to go through them all. I wonder if these confusions will ever be cleared up?

 

Perhaps through genuine and honest frank discussion.

 

 

Later in the same song Sri Thakur explains that we may get experience of our inernal spiritual forms, as required for the culture of raganuga-bhakti proper, by the grace of Krishna's holy name

 

 

This is also scripturally correct, because the Nama is the primary angi so I've heard.

 

I've also heard that the practices of vaidhi-bhakti are more prominent in Madhva and Ramanuja philosophy, and that it is the business of the Gaudiyas to practise raganuga. Perhaps that's just one reason why the Goswamis spent so much time writing about raganuga-bhakti and spent very little time on the process of vaidhi. Amazing. /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[stonehearted 0]

Gaurasundara: I find it interesting that you speak of dichotomies. Not only is there a dichotomy between vaidhi and raganuga, but there seem to be dichotomies within these two fields also. Absolutely amazing to go through them all. I wonder if these confusions will ever be cleared up?

 

My point is that, according to Bhaktivinoda and the quotation Madhavananda provided earlier, the dichotomy is false. The two are distinct in the motives that drive the sadhakas and in the ultimate goal, but only to a point. But they are not necessarily mutually exclusive. If the sadhaka's desire in practicing vaidhi-bhakti is to develop that lobha which qualifies him or her for raganuga-bhakti, that regulated practice does indeed lead eventually to Vraja bhakti. Madhava, Muralidhara, have I got this wrong? (I'm asking them because they're experienced practitioners. I don't mean that to be snooty, but this business is really a matter of realization. By pointing that out, I don't mean to denigrate your efforts to understand these things; ultimately, however, your research should come to the point of taking shelter of guru, accpting initiation from him, and submitting your inquiries to him. Oops--that's vaidhi-bhakti, isn't it? But it's what Mahaprabhu taught Sanatan.)

[gHari 0]

It appears it is possible to achieve all success simply by knowing everything that has already been written about such topics; thereby avoiding some of the obvious errors that the various gurus have made due a poor fund of knowledge on the subject.

 

For instance, it would appear that some masters like Srila Prabhupada clearly did not read quite enough about it from Srila Rupa Goswami to get it right.

 

I don't think Gaurasundara needs our opinions or Prabhupada's for that matter. He is on a higher level; as evidenced by his birth into a vaisnava family in India. I feel guilty for having wasted so much of his time already. Hopefully Krsna will forgive me.

[Guest guest]

Reading about raganuga bhakti and hearing that it is the highest path, reading about serving in vraja as a manjari and the fact that this is the highest attainment - that doesn't qualify one for these practices. That's like saying that I read that the highest paying profession is that of a medical doctor and therefore I am now a doctor. It's not at all like that. That's why Sridhara Maharaja told his sisyas to keep the path of raga-marga high above their heads - it is worshippable - our highest goal. It is not a cheap and easy thing.

 

Just because someone has a little intelligence and they are convinced that they want the highest thing doesn't make them qualified to get it. In fact, being 'convinced' in this way is really a disqualification because the lobha or greed is scripturally based, not spontaneous at all.

 

The first step, as Babhru pointed out, is to find a qualified teacher and accept diksha from him/her. Under the care of one's Guru through much sacrifice - when the sadhaka finally fully surrenders - then they are fit for higher service. Fully surrendered means no more personal desires, no sense gratification, every act, thought, word and deed is performed in loving seva to the divine preceptor. There is some value in understanding the goal, but then one must begin from where they actually are and make steady progress toward that goal - otherwise it's all an illusion, a mental projection. Progress will come according to the genuine sacrifice and self-giving of the sadhaka. There is no short cut for this. If someone tells you there is they are cheating you. In order to get you have to give. If you want to get fully, you will have to give fully.

 

Some people come to bhakti who have already progressed through many life times and for some of them spontaneous attraction arises quickly. But for most, there is much clearing to do before the heart is pure and ready for genuine suddha bhakti. But it should be very obvious what the goal is. Iskcon, GM - they are chanting Krsna nama and following Lord Chaitanya. They are meditating on Radha and Krsna's loving pastimes. So the goal is obvious.

 

your servant,

Audarya-lila dasa