Holy Name does not wait for diksha....

[Guruvani 0]

Can one become a pure devotee without diksha? Does one have to wait for diksha to be able to attain the highest goal of Prema-bhakti? Let's look at the teachings of Lord Chaitanya Mahaprabhu.

 

Mahaprabhu has said that the Holy Name does not wait for diksha. The Holy Name is self-sufficient and does not depend on anyone.

 

Madhya-lila ch.15 text 110 :

akrsti krta-cetasam sumansam accatanam camhasam

acandalam amuka-loka-sulabho vasyas ca mukti-sriya

no diksam na ca sat-kriyam na ca purascaryam manag iksate

mantro'yam rasa-sprg eva phalati sri-krsna-namatmakah

 

The Holy name of Lord Krishna is an attractice feature for many saintly liberal people. It is the annihilator of all sinful reactions and is so powerful that save for the dumb who cannot chant it, it is readily available to everyone, including the lowest type of man, the candala. The holy name of Krishna is the controller of the opulance of liberatioon, and is identical with Krishna. Simply by touching the holy name with one's tongue, immediate effects are produced. Chanting the holy name does not depend on initiation, pious activities or the purascharya regulative principle generally observed before initiation. The holy name does not wait for these activities. It is self-sufficient.

 

(this verse is found in the Padyavali [29] by Srila Rupa Goswami.

 

This verse says that the holy name does not wait for initiation.

[yasodanandana 0]

Holy Name does not wait for diksha.... but chanting hare krsna is also asking service.... "please radhe, let me serve krsna.."

 

and service is done through parampara:

 

 

8

yasya prasadad bhagavat-prasado

yasyaprasadan na gatih kuto 'pi

dhyayan stuvams tasya yasas tri-sandhyam

vande guroh sri-caranaravindam

 

WORD FOR WORD

 

 

TRANSLATION

 

By the mercy of the spiritual master one receives the benediction of Krsna. Without the grace of the spiritual master, one cannot make any advancement. Therefore, I should always remember and praise the spiritual master. At least three times a day I should offer my respectful obeisances unto the lotus feet of my spiritual master)

..

 

(holy name does not need spiritual master, but holy name calls for service, service means spiritual master

 

no: first master then mantra (as gayatri)

yes: first mahamantra then master to chant better

 

[Govindaram 1]

Hare Krishna

 

I know nothing, but what Lord Chaitanya Mahaprabhu, is saying is abvious, anybody/anywhere can chant the Maha-Mantra, without being initiated...but 'later on' search out bona-fide spiritual master. /images/graemlins/smile.gif

 

ps bit late on my post-but very nice explanation YN /images/graemlins/laugh.gif

[Guruvani 0]

then when you meet the spiritual master he is going to tell you to chant Hare Krishna mantra. Chanting the mantra is already the process of following a spiritual master. One cannot get the mantra without having connected to the teachings of a spiritual master......like Prabhupada's books for example.

If one is chanting he has already connected with a spiritual master somehow or he would not even know the mantra to chant.

 

Prabhupada ordered the whole world to chant. It is authorized by him and the entire disciplic succession back to Mahaprabhu that everyone has the right to chant Hare Krishna and become purified. No formal initiation is necessary for the pure chanting of the holy name. Mahaprabhu himself has ordered everyone to chant and they have the right to do so and get all the benefits, initiated or not.

[Guest guest]

what you are saying is accepted by anyone, especially by the one who follows a living spiritual master in our disciplic succession

[theist 1]

>>what you are saying is accepted by anyone, especially by the one who follows a living spiritual master in our disciplic succession <<

 

Not by my experience. In fact I find this understanding rather rare.

[Guest guest]

the fact that one can chant hare krsna without initiation? controversial?

[theist 1]

The fact that the Holy Name alone is sufficient to take you to Krsna's feet filled with prema bhakti.

[Guest guest]

ok

[Guest guest]

guru mahajana vakye bheda kabhu haya na

sadhanera pathe kanta sad guru deya na

 

"There can never be any difference between the explanations of the bonafide spiritual master and the teachings of the great devotees (mahajanas). The pure spiritual master never puts thorn-like deterrents on the path of one's execution of practical devotional service (sadhana)."

 

 

guru tyalji jade asa kabhyu bhakta kore na

mahajana pathe dosa kabhu guru deya na

 

"The true disciple never rejects the spiritual master because of their own desires for material enjoyment. The genuine spiritual master never finds fault with the devotional path shown by the great devotees (mahajanas)."

 

 

 

bhagavata padya bole ku vyakhya to kore na

loka samgragera tare krama patha chade na

 

"The true devotees of the Lord never recite the verses of Srimad-Bhagavatam and offer bogus interpretations. For the sake of attracting larger numbers of followers, true devotees never abondon the correct systematic practices of devotional service. "

 

 

 

anartha na gele name guna bujha jaya na

anartha na gele name drsna seva haya na

 

"As long as anarthas remain, then the chanting of the holy name will never produce an understanding of the transcendental qualities of the Lord. As long as anarthas remain, then the chanting of the holy name will never factually engage one in Krishna's service

 

[Guruvani 0]

The offenseless chanting of the holy name does not depend on the initiation process, Although initiation may depend on purascarya or purascarana, the actual chanting of the holy name does not depend on purascarya-vidhi, or the regulative principles.

 

Madhya 15 purport by Srila Prabhupada

[Guest guest]

do we have to stop following regulative principles, reading shastra books, following spiritual master prabhu?

[Guruvani 0]

In other words the chanting of the Hare Krishna maha-mantra is so powerful that it does not depend on OFFICIAL INITIATION, but if one is initiated and engages in pancaratra-vidhi (deity worship), his Krishna consciousness will awaken very soon, and his identification with the material world will be vanquished.

 

Madhya 15 text 108 purport

 

In this purport Prabhupada refers to OFFICIAL INITIATION which infers that there is an UNOFFICIAL INITIATION that occurs when one is first receives the Maha-mantra from some source.

 

This seems to contradict some dogma that we hear nowadays that we must have siksha or diksha from some so-called rasik acharya to be able to chant Hare Krishna with any effect?

[Guruvani 0]

Please listen to Lord Gauranga! He will not cheat you! He does not want your money or followers or prestige!

Lord Gauranga proclaims:

 

One does not have to undergo initiation or execute the activities required before initiation. One simply has to vibrate the holy name with his lips. Thus even a man in the lowest candala class can be delivered.

Madhya 15 text 108

 

Here is the truth as spoken from the lips of Mahaprabhu. He has no agenda. He promotes no dogma. He has no ax to grind. He doesn't need your money. He doesn't want followers to gratify his desire for prestige and power.

 

He just speaks the truth devoid of all the worldy motives.

[Guruvani 0]

[Govindaram 1]

 

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