Ten offenses when chanting

[theist 1]

I know this is really basic knowledge to many of you, but I am stuck in my japa. I just don't seem to make any tangible progress. It even gets down to "Well at least while I am chanting I'm not out doing something sinful." That is pretty dry I know but factually its where I'm at. I assume offensive mentality of some sort must be to blame.

 

So I figure for the sake of myself and others who are just picking up the process someone may explain something about the offenses to be avoided while chanting the Holy Name.

 

Thank you

[livingentity 0]

I look forward to reading the responses on this thread. Out of habit, I read the Ten Offenses several times a week but I realized the other day that I probably do not really understand the true meaning of some of them.

 

I noted that Stonehearted has kindly offered his participation in this discussion. I will be checking back on this thread later.

[Krsnanatha 0]

I figured since the subject is raised we should have the specific concerns in front of us.

 

OFFENSES AGAINST THE HOLY NAME

1) To blaspheme the devotees who have dedicated their lives for propagating the holy name of the Lord.

 

2) To consider the names of demigods like Lord Siva or Lord Brahma to be equal to, or independent of, the name of Lord Visnu.

 

3) To disobey the orders of the spiritual master.

 

4) To blaspheme the Vedic literature or literature in pursuance of the Vedic version.

 

5) To consider the glories of chanting Hare Krsna as imagination.

 

6) To give some interpretation on the holy name of the Lord.

 

7) To commit sinful activities on the strength of the holy name of the Lord.

 

8) To consider the chanting of Hare Krsna as one of the auspicious ritualistic activities which are offered in the Vedas as fruitive activities (karma-kanda).

 

9) To instruct a faithless person about the glories of the holy name.

 

10) To not have complete faith in the chanting of the holy names and to maintain material attachments, even after understanding so many instructions on this matter. It is also an offense to be inattentive while chanting.

 

 

 

 

[livingentity 0]

is inattentiveness. I have so many heavy things going on right now in my life and I try so hard to block them out when I chant. But before I realize what is going on - I find myself thinking of my so-called problems. This disturbs me deeply.

[Guest guest]

Yeah I know about the ten offenses to avoid, but the main point is not to forget the goal of chanting our rounds.

 

krishna-prema is the goal and to know of thoses offenses is a reminder that these offenses clearly move us away from the actual goal of chanting.

 

For example if we blaspheme a devotee of Krishna, then we forget that Krishna is in that person's heart, therefore we push away Krishna from our entourage... is that the goal? NO, the goal is to attract Krishna. We can't get to Krishna, there is no way to reach Krishna, we must make Him come to us. And Krishna is nicely situated in the hearts of His pure devotees.

 

I could go on with other offenses if needed, and remember what Prabhupada talked about on those.

 

Hare Krishna

[Krsnanatha 0]

Some pschologist did a study of what people worry about. The researcher found that over ninety percent of what we worry or distract ourselves with either never comes to happen or already has happened and we continue to dwell upon it as if it is still looming. I read this and did a personal inventory of what I was worrying about at the time and found the researchers findings to be quite accurate.

Having said this I do not suppose to minimize the details which force trepidation upon you at this time but as recommending a medicine which worked, I found this accessment process valuable and peace giving.

Of course as in my case the worry which torments most often is that my japa is poorly executed or veiled in a haze of inattention and in this situation what I am worrying about has both already happened and likely to happen again. That being the case I have resolved to just keep on going knowing that someday by the intervention of the pure undeserved Grace of Sri Guru and Krsna I will find myself properly commiting to this process of Krsna consciousness and find that my life has become what the Saints identify as devotional service.

 

[theist 1]

I feel very hopeful about this thread by the participation so far. Thanks to Krsnanatha for posting them at the start. Maintaining attachments and being in attentive is also my problem. I also sense that I chant to counteract sinful reactions that I repeatedly commit.

 

Maybe we will be able to slowly and thouroughly progress through them in the days and weeks to come beginning at one and proceeding in order.

 

I am also unfocused in the real goal.

 

But let's stick to number one for a while if we can.

[theist 1]

OFFENSES AGAINST THE HOLY NAME

1) To blaspheme the devotees who have dedicated their lives for propagating the holy name of the Lord.

 

 

[Govindaram 1]

---- You should chant the holy name of the Lord in a humble state of mind,

----thinking one-self lower than the straw in the street,

---- you should be more tolerant than a tree,

----devoid of all sense of false prestige,

----in this state of mind you can chant the holy name of the Lord constantly.

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[livingentity 0]

1. To speak of, or address, with impious irreverence; to revile impiously (anything sacred); as, to blaspheme the Holy Spirit.

 

2. Figuratively, of persons and things not religiously sacred, but held in high honor: To calumniate; to revile; to abuse.

 

[theist 1]

To speak of, or address, with impious reverence...

[livingentity 0]

that is what Websters says. I always just assumed (dangerous thinking) that I knew the definition of blaspheme but now I see that I only thought I understood the full meaning. But what is impious reverence?

[Krsnanatha 0]

Nothing will take a devotee out faster and more thoroughly than attacking the Lords servitors.

I have seen personally, up close one such circumstance. A person I was very close to adopted a very cruel mood of fault finding. Unfortunately this person found cause to apply the strictest standard they could find to assessing every behavior of every devotee they came in contact with (except of course themselves.)

When this mood of critic began to be applied to their Guru it was not long before this person left the company of devotees and reported finding Christianity to be a "More comforting approach to God".

Just recently I found that this individual is now also finding "comfort" in the eating of Krsna's helpless animals.

 

Please Prabhu's, forgive any offenses I have committed to you in this forum environment or in any other interactions.

 

[theist 1]

me too. I pictured it as something like venemous name calling or something, which certainly applies but it stretches down to "To speak of, or address, with impious reverence..." as well.

 

I didn't know this was a fast day. I can't fast so I will eat a watermelon or two instead. I'm off to the market to get some.

 

Haribol

 

 

[Krsnanatha 0]

I have read that in old english, the word "reverence" was a synonym for the word "attention".

Example; Standing in reverence before the magistrate.

Thus "Impious reverence"="Profane attention."

May the devotees have mercy upon those inclined to direct such profane attention upon them!

[livingentity 0]

that helps me to understand the meaning of impious reverence.

 

This all opens up a new concern for me and I will try to explain as briefly as possible.

 

Say someone has indeed done some good works to help with Srila Prabhupada's mission but along the way has gone very very bad. If I discuss these bad things is that blaspheme? If so, then I am horribly guilty and need to re-examine myself deeply.

 

Also, are we extra guilty of blaspheme if we cause others to engage also in speaking of the bad things someone has done?

[yasodanandana 0]

i do every offense listed here and maybe some other

 

please pray for me.....

[stonehearted 0]

Here's what Srila Bhatkivinoda Thakura says about the first offense in his Sri Sanmodana Bhasyam on the Sikshastaka:

"1) satam ninda namnah paramam aparadham vitanute; yatah khyatim yatam usahate tad vigarham: To criticize the devotees of the Lord is a ver grievous offense to sri nama. How can sri nama prabhu tolerate criticism of those great souls who are deeply devoted to the holy name and who spread its glories throughout the world? Therefore, criticism of saintly persons and devotees is the first offense against the holy name."

 

The operative word here is ninda, whose root, nind, means, according to Monier-Williams, "to blame, censure, revile, despise, ridicule."

 

I think it's also interesting to note that in the Sanskrit we see the phrase "paraman aparahdam" used to describe this offense. It's the greatest, most dangerous offense.

[Govindaram 1]

HK

 

I thought chanting the above Mantra saved you from offences-

 

<font color="red"> sri-krishna chaitanya prabhu nityananda sri-advaita </font color>

<font color="red"> gadadara sri-vasadi gaura-bhakta-vrinda </font color>

 

before chanting the maha-mantra....Haribol!

[stonehearted 0]

I was present in Honolulu when Srila Prabhupada said that chanting the Pancha-tattva mantra would help minimize offenses in our chanting. That doesn't mean we should--or may--be lax in this regard. It's also an offense to commit sins, cavalierly believing that the chanting will save us.

 

A practical test: has your chanting yielded Krishna-prema? If not, why not? Are you able to chant the holy name constantly? The only explanation is in our committing offenses: "On account of commiting offenses, I am so unfortunate that, although the holy name is so easily accessible and bestows all good fortune, I have yet to awaken any attachment for chanting."

[Guest guest]

This is not (Hindu) sanatan dharma

 

Have you considered offence against Lord Shiva?

 

Sri Vyasdev who wrote 18 purans and in there respective purans he has described Lord Vishnu and Lord Shiva as supreme and as same.

 

In Vishnu sahastranama many names off Lord Shiva are there.

 

In Bhagwat Gita ch. 10, Lord Shree Krishna in answer to Arjun declares he is Lord Vishnu he is Lord Shiva how can this be an offence?

 

One should worship ones istdeva and respect the other Devatas.

 

Lord Krishna is all attractive

Lord Shiva is all auspicious

 

I love them both and if that is a crime so be it

 

Jai Shree Krishna

 

 

[Guest guest]

you have read two quotes that make impossible to offend lord siva and at the same time chanting hare krsna in the right way:

 

1) To blaspheme the devotees who have dedicated their lives for propagating the holy name of the Lord.

 

siva is surely a great devotee of krsna / vishnu so it is deadly dangerous to blasphemy Him

 

this is from chaitanya mahaprabhu:

 

---- You should chant the holy name of the Lord in a humble state of mind,

----thinking one-self lower than the straw in the street,

---- you should be more tolerant than a tree,

----devoid of all sense of false prestige,

----in this state of mind you can chant the holy name of the Lord constantly.

 

if we live in this mood it is not possible to blasphemy anyone.. what to say of lord siva!!!!??!!

 

(i have heard absolutely no offenses to lord siva in this thread!!)

[Govindaram 1]

Hare Krishna

 

I don't think it's a crime to love Krishna and His devotee!

 

"Lord Vishnu and Lord Shiva as supreme and as same"

 

I think the above is achieved when you have a higher understanding of Krishna and His devotee..

Srila Vyasadeva - incarnation of Krishna knew this..

But maybe some Lord Siva devotees forget about Krishna?

So then it remains that whats Lord Siva without Lord Krishna

 

[Guest guest]

What if Lord Shivas devotees ask you the same question in reverse?What is Lord Krishna without Lord siva

[Govindaram 1]

"What if Lord Shivas devotees ask you the same question in reverse?What is Lord Krishna without Lord siva"

 

I meant both ways prabhu