Kama is the "god" of??

[Tirisilex 0]

I'm confused as to what Kama is the "god" of. I read he is of Love and Sexual pleasures. However, I see the name Kama used for other pleasures as well.. I'm confused as to what he is the "lord" over exactly. Is it just love and sexual pleasures or more than this?

 

In Buddhism the story of the Buddha's enlightenment under the Bodhi tree talks of Mara who came to tempt Siddhartha. Mara sent his children to aid him in the distraction of Siddhartha. Mara is said to be synonomous with Kama. However, Mara's daughter Raga is also said to be synonomous with Rati. How can Mara be father of Raga and Kama husband of Rati at the same time? My only conclusion is that Mara is an ego "spirit" that was working through Kama and Raga is an ego "spirit" working through Rati. 2 consciousness's existing in the same form?

 

In this story if you were to say Mara and Kama are the same and inseperable then Kama would be the lord of all appearance Illusions. I have also read in my Yoga book that Maya is considered the Lord of all appearance illusions.

SO does this mean that Mara and Maya are synonmous? It would seem so to me.

Why is Kama used in the story of enlightenment? Is he truely synonmous with Mara?

 

any help would be appreciated.

[gHari 0]

This quote from a lecture by a guru gives a good idea of what the sanskrit word 'kama' involves:<blockquote>So kAma, and the proof is because in the material world everyone wants to fulfill his own desire, therefore when the desire is not fulfilled he becomes angry, manyu. The next stage is manyu. Manyu means anger. And mada, then pride, then greediness, then zoka. These are different stages. Lamentation, bhaya. So many things. What is the cause? The root cause is karma-bandha. Because I am bound up by the resultant action of my past karma. KarmaNA daiva-netreNa yantra-dehopapattaye. By the superior arrangement, according to my karma I get a body with varieties of kAma, krodha, moha, like that. KAma, because somebody has got the body of a human being, his kAma, desires, are different from the hogs and pigs because he has got a different body. He has got also kAma, and the human body, he has human being, he has got also kAma. But one is desiring to have a very palatable dish, and the other is desiring stool.

The different..., according to the bodies the desires are (indistinct). So conclusion is that when you get your spiritual body then the desire will be different. And that is prema. Desires are going on. Now the desires are designated. Designated. Because one has got a particular type of body, his desires are different from another because another person, he has got a particular type of body. But in the spiritual world, because there is no material body, only desire is how to satisfy KRSNa. KAma kRSNa- karmArpaNe. This is spiritual. Spiritual means when the center is KRSNa. That is spiritual. Otherwise it is material. That is material means to forget KRSNa and satisfy His own senses. That is material. Just like a flower, a nice flower. One is accepting this flower for satisfying his smelling power and another is accepting the same flower with the desire that "Here is a nice flower. Let me offer it to KRSNa." So according to different mentality. The KRSNa, sa vai manaH kRSNa- pAdAravindayor, if we simply engage our mind to KRSNa, naturally the flower will be offered to KRSNa.

</blockquote>

[gHari 0]

This excerpt shows how kama lust (for anything, can be desires too) when not satisfied turns to anger and so on; like attachment in the eight-fold path:<blockquote>

KAma krodha lobha moha mAtsarya and mada. First thing is kAma--lust; second krodha--anger; third--greediness. KAma krodha lobha moha-- illusion; mada--madness. KAma, krodha, lobha, moha, mada... mAtsarya--enviousness.

 

Mada - madness. Just as don't you see all these people of the world, they are mad? What they are doing? They whole day the cars going on this side, that side. What is the aim of life? They're mad. Simply wasting petroleum, that's all. What they're doing? Huh? Suppose a cat and dog goes this side and that side, yow, yow, yow, and he goes some motorcars. What is the difference? There is no difference because the aim of the life is the same. Therefore they are mad. That is explained. NUnaM pramattaH kurute vikarma yad indriya-prItaya ApRNoti [sB 5.5.4]. NUnaM pramattaH, pramattaH means mad. PrakRSTa rUpeNa mata, sufficiently mad. And why? Kurute vikarma. They're acting which they should not act. They're acting in a way in which they should not have done. So what is the aim of their acting? Indriya-prItaya, simply for sense gratification. That's all.</blockquote>

[gHari 0]

Lecture excerpt:<blockquote>So when one becomes enlightened, he offers himself to KRSNa. There is a verse like this. KAmAdInAM kati na katidhA pAlitA durnidezAH: "My Lord, I have spoiled my time in this way, becoming the godAsa or the servant of the senses." KAmAdInAm, kAma krodha lobha moha mAtsarya. Therefore it is called, kAmAdInAM kati na. "I have tried to satisfy them to my utmost." Kati na katidhA. "What I have not done for them? Still, they are not satisfied. Neither they are merciful." TeSAM jAtA mayi na karuNA na trapA. Na tRpta. "They are neither satisfied; neither they are merciful, never."</blockquote>

[gHari 0]

At last, we find a Kama-deva name for God in the important KAma-gAyatrI mantra in the Caitanya-caritamrta 8.138p (Deva means "God"):<blockquote>GAyantaM trAyate yasmAd gAyatrI tvaM tataH smRtA: one who chants the GAyatrI mantra is gradually delivered from the material clutches. In other words, that which delivers one from material entanglement is called GAyatrI. An explanation of the GAyatrI mantra can be found in the Madhya-lIlA, Chapter Twenty-one, text 125:

 

<center>kAma-gAyatrI-mantra-rUpa, haya kRSNera svarUpa,

sArdha-cabbiza akSara tAra haya

se akSara ‘candra' haya, kRSNe kari' udaya,

trijagat kailA kAmamaya

</center>

The KAma-gAyatrI mantra is just like a Vedic hymn, but it is the Supreme Personality of Godhead Himself. There is no difference between the KAma-gAyatrI and KRSNa. Both are composed of twenty-four and a half transcendental syllables (see Madhya 21.125–29). The mantra depicted in letters is also KRSNa, and the mantra rises just like the moon. Due to this, there is a perverted reflection of desire in human society and among all kinds of living entities. In the mantra klIM kAma-devAya vidmahe puSpa-bANAya dhImahi tan no 'naGgaH pracodayAt, KRSNa is called KAma-deva, PuSpa-bANa and AnaGga. KAma-deva is Madana-mohana, the Deity who establishes our relationship with KRSNa; PuSpa-bANa ("He who carries an arrow made of flowers") is Govinda, the Personality of Godhead who accepts our devotional service; and AnaGga is GopIjana-vallabha, who satisfies all the gopIs and is the ultimate goal of life. This KAma-gAyatrI (klIM kAma-devAya vidmahe puSpa-bANAya dhImahi tan no 'naGgaH pracodayAt) simply does not belong to this material world. When one is advanced in spiritual understanding, he can worship the Supreme Personality of Godhead with his spiritually purified senses and fulfill the desires of the Lord.

 

<center>man-manA bhava mad-bhakto mad-yAjI mAM namaskuru

mAm evaiSyasi satyaM te pratijAne priyo 'si me

</center>

"Always think of Me and become My devotee. Worship Me and offer your homage unto Me. Thus you will come to Me without fail. I promise you this because you are My very dear friend." (Bg. 18.65)

 

In the Brahma-saMhitA (5.27–28) it is stated:

<center>

atha veNu-ninAdasya trayI-mUrti-mayI gatiH

phurantI pravivezAzu mukhAbjAni svayambhuvaH

 

gAyatrIM gAyatas tasmAd adhigatya saroja-jaH

saMskRtaz cAdi-guruNA dvijatAm agamat tataH

 

trayyA prabuddho 'tha vidhir vijJAta-tattva-sAgaraH

tuSTAva veda-sAreNa stotreNAnena kezavam

</center>

"Then GAyatrI, mother of the Vedas, having been manifested by the divine sound of SrI KRSNa's flute, entered the lotus mouth of BrahmA, the self-born, through his eight earholes. Thus the lotus-born BrahmA received the GAyatrI mantra, which had sprung from the song of SrI KRSNa's flute. In this way he attained twice-born status, having been initiated by the supreme, primal preceptor, Godhead Himself. Enlightened by the recollection of that GAyatrI, which embodies the three Vedas, BrahmA became acquainted with the expanse of the ocean of truth. Then he worshiped SrI KRSNa, the essence of all the Vedas, with a hymn."</blockquote>

[Tirisilex 0]

Thank you for your response. You have answered alot of questions. However this gives rise to more questions.

You mention the Kama Gayatri Mantra. Is this the same Kama Gayatri Mantra found in the Kama Sutra?

 

AUM Manobhavarya Vidmahe Kandarshaya dhimahi Tannah Kamah prachodayat.

 

As I read what you have written I wonder if you are saying that there are 2 kinds of desires. Kama is in care of both. One is a material kind of desire where as the second is more of a "celestial" kind of desire.

 

I'm getting confused where Kama stands. I've read he is the enemy of Dharma and here you say he leads people to Krishna. I'm not sure if I'm following what you have written correctly.

 

Just FYI.. If you didnt know I'm a Buddhist. I study many religions and I've been attracted to Hinduism because Buddhism and Hiduism are closely related. If it wasnt for Brahmans there probably would never had been a Buddha on this planet.

 

[Tirisilex 0]

gHari ,

 

I have seen your post in other threads and I must say that I'm impressed with your devotion to give informed answers.

Good work..

 

 

[gHari 0]

Kama meaning lust or material desires can be considered one of the enemies of dharma; indeed in the quote below Kama is identified as one of the three gates to hell. But Kama-deva (God) is certainly not dharma's enemy.

 

Understand, there is only one God in the Vedas. Depending on His pastimes and exhibited opulences, He is called by different descriptive names. In fact as you've probably heard here, the Vedas foretell that Krsna will incarnate as Lord Buddha, so we respect Buddha as God. This same Krsna advises us in His Song of God (Bhagavad-gita):<blockquote><center>tri-vidhaM narakasyedaM

dvAraM nAzanam AtmanaH

kAmaH krodhas tathA lobhas

tasmAd etat trayaM tyajet

</CENTER>

tri-vidham--of three kinds; narakasya--of hell; idam--this; dvAram--gate; nAzanam--destructive; AtmanaH--of the self; kAmaH--lust; krodhaH--anger; tathA--as well as; lobhaH--greed; tasmAt--therefore; etat--these; trayam--three; tyajet--one must give up.

There are three gates leading to this hell — lust, anger and greed. Every sane man should give these up, for they lead to the degradation of the soul.</blockquote>

 

Krsna's name Kama-deva would not be mentioned in the Kama Sutra. That Kama Gayatri mantra is very very esoteric; it has no association with anything material.

 

Desire for gratifying the senses is the opposite of desiring Krsna. One leads to further entanglement while the other is liberating from the bondage to the material whirlpool.

 

I remember reading Herman Hesse's Siddharta which took place in the times of Lord Buddha. The courtesan-turned-wife of Siddharta was named Kamala, and his merchant boss was named Kamaswami. I suspect that was no accident. Likely your story too relates to kama desire.

[gHari 0]

I am glad you got to appreciate some of the posts. It's rather easy using a powerful search engine on a huge CD of scriptures commented on by a self-realized soul. It is actually a great pleasure. They say "To know Him is to love Him." And I'd have to agree since it's kept me absolutely intrigued for thirty years. It's my kama.

[Tirisilex 0]

I have re-read what you posted here and thought it over and I've found that I'm still just as confused as when I first posted the question. (I should start purchasing some better Hindu texts than what I have. So I can find the answer to the Questions on my own.)

 

I have read that there is this "god" who's name is Kama. He rides on a Parrot and weilds a bow and flower tipped arrows. Each arrow effects a different sense. He's been called the god of love and pleasures. He has a wife who is Rati a "goddess" of erotic desire and pleasures. Both have been known to be at times decievers.

Kama recieved a prophecy after angering a God (I cant remember who) That (Shiva?) would destroy him. Kama was asked by some certain gods (later on) to "help" (Shiva?). He was in grief because of a loss and receded into meditation. They asked Kama to arouse (Shiva?) to notice his current (wife? consort?) In the hopes that (Shiva?) would break out of his depression. Kama accepted the challenge under protest from Rati (In fear of the prophecy?). Kama shot (Shiva?) with one of his arrows and (Shiva?) recognised what had happened and devoured Kama with his third eye.

 

Now in the story for the Buddhas enlightenment (although the story varies) Mara (Kama) when enraged repetedly shot at the Buddha with flower tipped arrows. He became angry because he was able to distract gods with his arrows but here is this but a mere man and his arrows did nothing.

 

** "He who carries an arrow made of flowers"

 

You said this when speaking of Kama deva. Which Kama is which? are they same? Is my guess that Kama has 2 sides like Venus one is a Material Desire and the other is a Celestial? I'm lost because you also mention the Kama Gayatri and say that Kama Deva would not be mentioned in the Kama Sutra.

In the Complete Kama Sutra by Alain Danielou on pages 505 and 506 in the Occult Practices section.

 

"The mantras of bewitchment found in the Atharva Veda can bu used in various ways. In explaining the importance of using the mantra called "Kama-gayatri" for bewitchment, repeating it or meditating on it, the Agama Tantra says that one attains the status of the god of love by repeating one hundred and fifty thousand times: Aum Manaobhavaya Vidmahe Kandarshaya dhimahi Tannah Kamah prachodayat."

 

There is a little more but it goes into different Mantras. Is that the same Kama-gayatri mantra that you speak of?

Who is Kama and what does he "rule" over? Is he a god of material desires alone? a god of both material and celestial desire? Where does he stand? As an enemy of Dharma at times and at times he is not? When the word Kama is used does it have a connection with the god known as Kama at all times? Or is the word Kama used as a different concept other than who the god Kama represents?

[Tirisilex 0]

I did a search on Kama-deva and I found this:

 

 

KAMA

The Hindu god of love, Kama is depicted as an adroit youth, the husband of Rati, god of sensual desire. His sugar-cane bow has bees to make up the strings, and fire arrows tipped by flowers, whose scent announces the sweet, piercing, irresistable attack of love. Kama met his match in Shiva, however, when, commanded by Indra to fire at the Destroyer, in order that Shiva be inflamed with love for Parvati, Kama received the full force of the god's third eye, reducing him to cinders. In a later birth however, the god of love succeeded in piercing Shiva and kindling in him love for the goddess Sati, this attack instigated by Brahma.

 

KAMADEVA

One of the minor Hindu Brahmanic gods, the god of love, who is depicted as riding on a dove, armed with an arrow of flowers, and a bow whose string is formed of bees.

 

Kama-Deva is not the same being as Kama? They appear to be similar but are different.. Is this correct?

[gHari 0]

Tirisilex,

 

Quite amazing. I don't know much about the demigods, but you seem to have found some info on one, Kama. This sounds like your match. Kama-deva is not a demigod, but rather a form of Krsna, God (the capital G).

 

Demigods are many. They perform a variety of functions under the direction of Krsna. They are, however, living entities just like ourselves, only very very evolved spiritually. For example, Lord Indra, a post that is filled by one of us from time to time is responsible for providing rain. The demigod, Lord Brahma is responsible for creating a universe and the life forms in it for souls to inhabit. There are Brahmas for each of the innumerable universes in each material world that manifests, who hold their posts for over a trillion earth years. But even after serving as a Brahma, the spirit soul must return to birth on the earth before it can continue to the Kingdom of God to be with Sri Krsna always.

 

Quite separate from the demigods is God who manifests Himself in a variety of ways, but He is always really Krsna, the original person, the cause of all causes and all that is. It is as though all candles have been lit by one candle. Krsna is that candle. You can see how westerners who hear of the demigods think Hinduism is polytheistic.

 

So to be exact we should call Kama a demigod. The difference: God is unborn, demigods are born like you and I for God's pleasure. You could be Kama billions of years from now. You probably have already been Kama. But we will never be God, be Krsna.

 

So, if he's a demigod, then he's empowered by and is acting under Krsna's authority. Sounds like Krsna has created a little hellion to mess us simple folk up with hormones. God is very kind. He will give us just about anything we desire. Kama sounds a lot like the western mythical cupid. Maybe cupid's real!

 

So, the Buddha had to fight off an attack from Kama. I've done that in my day; lost a few battles. But then I've won a few too. Let's hope Lord Buddha got out of this one unscathed. Let me know how it works out for Him.

 

gHari

[gHari 0]

It seems the two Kama-gayatri mantras are entirely different. When I was the god of love mine was "Hey babe, how's it goin'."

 

But the similarities are astounding to say the least. In that part I highlighted much earlier, in the Kama Gayatri mantra there is even the name of Krsna that means "He who carries an arrow of flowers" or something, referring to Lord Govinda, a very intimate name of Sri Krsna.

 

We often hear it said that this material world is simply a perverted reflection of the Kingdom of God. In the eternal spiritual world Kama-deva directs us towards our eternal relationship with God, but on earth the demigod Kama directs us to our temporary relationship with matter. It certainly sounds like something Krsna would arrange; He's quite a trickster with a real flare for the poetic and dramatic.

[gHari 0]

Here we go. Lust and love. Attraction, material and spiritual, temporary and eternal. Cupid is real - likely the demigod Kama. This is from the Sri Caitanya Caritamrita 8.139:<blockquote><center>puruSa, yoSit, kibA sthAvara-jaGgama

sarva-cittAkarSaka, sAkSAt manmatha-madana

</center>

puruSa--a male; yoSit--a female; kibA--all; sthAvara-jaGgama--living entities who cannot move and living entities who can move; sarva--of everyone; citta-AkarSaka--the attractor of the minds; sAkSAt--directly; manmatha-madana--captivator of Cupid himself.

"The very name KRSNa means that He attracts even Cupid. He is therefore attractive to everyone--male and female, moving and inert living entities. Indeed, KRSNa is known as the all-attractive one.

 

PURPORT

Just as there are many orbs in the material world called stars or planets, in the spiritual world there are many spiritual planets called VaikuNThalokas. The spiritual universe, however, is situated far, far away from the cluster of material universes. Material scientists cannot even estimate the number of planets and stars within this universe. They are also incapable of traveling to other stars by spaceship. According to the Bhagavad-gItA (8.20), there is also a spiritual world:

 

<center>paras tasmAt tu bhAvo 'nyo 'vyakto 'vyaktAt sanAtanaH

yaH sa sarveSu bhUteSu nazyatsu na vinazyati

</center>

"Yet there is another unmanifested nature, which is eternal and is transcendental to this manifested and unmanifested matter. It is supreme and is never annihilated. When all in this world is annihilated, that part remains as it is."

 

Thus there is another nature, which is superior to material nature. The word bhAva or svabhAva refers to nature. The spiritual nature is eternal, and even when all the material universes are destroyed, the planets in the spiritual world abide. They remain exactly as the spirit soul remains even after the annihilation of the material body. That spiritual world is called the aprAkRta (antimaterial) world. In this transcendental, spiritual world or universe, the highest planetary system is known as Goloka VRndAvana. That is the abode of Lord KRSNa Himself, who is also all-spiritual. KRSNa is known there as AprAkRta-madana. The name Madana refers to Cupid, but KRSNa is the spiritual Madana. His body is not material like the body of Cupid in this material universe. KRSNa's body is all-spiritual--sac-cid-Ananda-vigraha [bs. 5.1]. Therefore He is called AprAkRta-madana. He is also known as Manmatha-madana, which means that He is attractive even to Cupid. Sometimes KRSNa's activities and attractive features are misinterpreted by gross materialists who accuse Him of being immoral because He danced with the gopIs, but such an accusation results from not knowing that KRSNa is beyond this material world. His body is sac-cid-Ananda-vigraha [bs. 5.1], completely spiritual. There is no material contamination in His body, and one should not consider His body a lump of flesh and bones. The MAyAvAdI philosophers conceive of KRSNa's body as material, and this is an abominable, grossly materialistic conception. Just as KRSNa is completely spiritual, the gopIs are also spiritual, and this is confirmed in the Brahma-saMhitA (5.37):

 

<center>Ananda-cin-maya-rasa-pratibhAvitAbhis

tAbhir ya eva nija-rUpatayA kalAbhiH

goloka eva nivasaty akhilAtma-bhUto

govindam Adi-puruSaM tam ahaM bhajAmi

</center>

"I worship Govinda, the primeval Lord. He resides in His own realm, Goloka, with RAdhA, who resembles His own spiritual figure and who embodies the ecstatic potency (hlAdinI). Their companions are Her confidantes, who embody extensions of Her bodily form and who are imbued and permeated with ever-blissful spiritual rasa."

</blockquote>

[Tirisilex 0]

Hinduism has the 4 aims of life.

 

1. dharma (righteousness), 

2. artha (material wealth), 

3. kama (desire) and 

4. moksha (salvation).

 

My last question is.. The demigod Kama.. Is he the demigod over the third aim listed here? I ask this just to dispell any doubts. I believe he is but I'm just not certain.

 

As for the Buddha's result from resisting Kama.. He gained enlightenment just shortly after his attack. The last of the temptations that Siddharrha had faced was the illusion of self. One of the most difficult obstacles to overcome. After he saw past an idea of self he became liberated. The Buddha..

 

[gHari 0]

The guru and I both hesitated at hearing those four as summarizing Hinduism. Those encyclopedias are at times a waste. Here is how the guru reacted:<blockquote>HaMsadUta: ...kAma artha and mokSa are the four goals of life, but otherwise there wouldn't be any description of the four goals of...

PrabhupAda: Please stop. Dharma-artha-kAma mokSa. Then what is your next question? Because they are already godless, the world is already sick. What is the purpose of dharma? Dharma, the SrImad-BhAgavata says, sa vai puMsAM paro dharmaH. Paro dharma means the highest quality dharma. What is that? Yato bhaktir adhokSaje. The purpose of dharma-artha-kAma-mokSa means to come to this platform of bhakti. The BhAgavata says that,

 

<center>dharma-svanuSTitaH puMsAM

vizvaksena kathAsu yaH

notpAdayed yadi ratiM

zrama eva hi kevalam

</center>

The purpose of dharma artha kAma is to come to the platform of bhakti. If one does not come to that platform, simply as a matter of formula and rituals, the BhAgavata says, it is simply waste of time. Srama eva hi kevalam. Why PrahlAda MahArAja says that viprAd dvi-SaD-guNa-yutAd aravinda-nAbha pAdAravinda-vimukhAt? That is very good, to be in the platform of goodness, but you have to make further progress. Goodness is not perfection, because this world is so that even in the platform of goodness there is passion and ignorance. It is not unmixed. Sattva, sattva-guNa. Sattva-guNa is the goodness. So one has to transcend the platform of goodness. That is called zuddha-sattva. In the Bhagavad-gItA it is said, traiguNya-viSaya-veda nistraiguNyo bhavArjuna: "My dear Arjuna, so far the Vedic injunctions are concerned, they are material, traiguNya." Somebody is in goodness, somebody is in passion, somebody is in ignorance. Therefore the division is brAhmaNa, kSatriya, vaizya, zUdra. "But," He advised him, nistraiguNyo bhavArjuna, "just transcend to the three qualities of this material nature." That transcendental position is this bhakti. So unless one comes to the platform of bhakti, simply by dharma artha kAma mokSa will not give him the highest perfection. The SrImad-BhAgavatam, therefore, begins with this understanding: dharma projjhita-kaitavo 'tra. Kaitava means cheating. Cheating. So in the SrImad-BhAgavatam, the so-called religiosity, which is more or less cheating, is projjhita, prakRSTa-rUpena ujjhita, is completely swept over. So dharma artha kAma mokSa is not the highest perfection. Generally, people, they take to religiosity for material gain, artha, dharma, artha. And material gain means to satisfy the senses, kAma. And when they are frustrated in satisfying the senses, they then want mokSa. So after keeping in mokSa, brahma satyaM jagan mithyA... MokSa means this world is false, and Brahman is satya. But because he has no Brahman engagement, therefore, even after leaving everything to search out Brahman, he comes again back to this material world for philanthropy work, for feeding the poor, for hospitalization. So this is coming and going, coming and going, coming and going. So real status of perfection is that you have to transcend even this position of mokSa. DharmaH projjhita kaitavo 'tra [sB 1.1.2]. The SrIdhara Swami, a great commentator on SrImad-BhAgavatam, he says, atra mokSa, mokSAbhisandhy api nirastam: "Oh, the SrImad-BhAgavatam is above the idea of liberation." So unless we come to that point, paJcama puruSArtha, fifth dimension... The dharma, first, the artha, second, kAma, third, mokSa, fourth, and devotion is the fifth, fifth platform. AdhokSaja, adhokSaja. There are different stages of understanding: pratyakSa, parokSa, aparakSa, adhokSaja, aprakRta. The ordinary understanding, direct perception, is called pratyakSa. Now, higher than the pratyakSa understanding is parokSa, means to gather knowledge from the higher authorities. And above that, aparokSa, realization. And above that, adhokSaja. AdhokSaja means beyond the understanding of these material senses. And above that, there is aprakRta, completely transcendental. So the bhakti is on the transcendental platform, beyond the adhokSaja. </blockquote>

 

So it's either Dharma-artha-kAma-mokSa (Religion, Economic Development, Sense Gratification, Liberation) or bhakti. We keep going around in the first four forever until we perfect our love of God. Even achieving moksha (liberation from matter, merging into the all-pervading Brahman) results eventually in rebirth (from boredom) if there is no bhakti. Then round and round again. So really those four are not the goal of life, but actually they are the symptoms of material existence. They are the disease.

 

From our sources, it would appear that Kama creates the desires in the soul to enjoy the material senses. I think we have it figured out, but I don't know what the stakes are here. Is it for your private understanding, an essay, or will you disappear into the void if we're wrong (or right!); but I guess it is you who will ultimately have to evaluate your certainty. For me, it all seems pretty reasonable, but then I have no real stake in it.

[Guest guest]

<<Kama-Deva is not the same being as Kama? They appear to be similar but are different.. Is this correct? >>

 

kama means sex desire.

kamadev is a deva who produces sex desire in men.

 

rati, his wife, produces sex desire in women.

 

jai sri prabhupada!

 

 

[srivats 0]

 

Haribol !

 

Kama is used as term to mention both the desire and sexual desires. I see his interst in learning about a demigod than the God.

 

Madhava Kesava Madhana Gopala !

Srivats

[Tirisilex 0]

When I started this research I thought it would be a simple matter. Use the name of the demigod and find information about him. The further I get into this research the more confusing it gets. I was doing a search on the subject today and I found this paragraph talking about Kama.

 

The paragraph is:

 

The same tantra gives her dhyana or meditation image as red like 10 million dawn suns, having a diadem of rubies, wearing throat ornaments, necklaces, waistchains and rings. She is red, has six arms and three eyes, and bears a crescent Moon, smiling softly. She holds a bow of sugar cane, flowering arrows, noose, goad, and a nectar-filled begemmed cup, showing the mudra of bestowing boons. The five arrows of desire (Kama) in the five petals are Longing, Maddening, Kindling, Enchanting and Wasting. These five Kamas are five forms of Kamadeva, Lalita as Krishna, who are Kamaraja (Hrim), Manmatha (Klim), Kandarpa (Aim), Makara (Blum) and Manobhava (Strim) with the colours yellow, white, red, purple and blue. Each of the Kamadevas has two eyes and two arms, the hands holding sugar cane bow and flowering arrows, the very form of the five elements.

 

This confusing the heck out of me.. Who is who and who is what? Can anyone explain this to me? I'm finding that there are many different Kamas. Who are they and what does each represent?

 

 

[Guest guest]

***I see his interst in learning about a demigod than the God.

 

Can't someone do research without being criticized or judged?

I'm trying to get information. I do studies.. Kama and Rati are not the only subjects I've looked into. I study religions and philosophy. I consider myself a Scholar Hobbyist.

I've done research on Christianity particularly the Christian Concept of Hell. I also focused on Desire and how it relates to Christianity. I've studied the Christian Idea of Faith. I've studied Jewish Kabbalah. I've studied on Catholic Saints. I've Studied on Confucious Tactics on teaching. I dont understand why I could do a study on Satan in Christianity and not get rebukes. But in the Hindu ranks I get frowned upon my research subject.

 

Hinduism is my second choice for a religion. I find it incredibly beautifull. The similarities in teachings between Buddhism and Hinduism are wonderful. What few Hindu Texts I do have I find are beautifully written and have wonderful artistic layouts. I marvel at the thought of Krishna being in the form of a child. A being with such great power and wisdom that chooses to be in the form of a child is in my opinion Awesome! Cool! Marvelous! However Buddhism is my first choice for a religion. I just do not understand why I get the reactions that I do for the research I make. (This isnt the first time I've recieved such responses).

 

There is this scientist who looks upon an ant colony. The queen is the center of all ant activity and the most important of all the ants yet the scientist focuses on the scout ant 5 feet away from the colony to learn it's behavior.

 

Is this a crime?

[Tirisilex 0]

That last post was from me. I forgot to login.

[Guest guest]

I wouldn't take anything too seriously. People will often times make off the cuff comments, but not intending to offend. Wish I could be of more assistance. But most of us just don't know anything about the god Kama.

[gHari 0]

It is said that there are thirty-three million demigods:<blockquote>UttamAs tu hariM prAhus tAratamyena teSu ca: such philosophers are the best because they know that the Supreme Personality of Godhead reveals Himself differently to worshipers in various modes of material nature. They know that there are thirty-three million demigods just to convince the conditioned soul that there is a supreme power and to induce him to agree to worship one of these demigods so that by the association of devotees he may be able to understand that KRSNa is the Supreme Personality of Godhead. As Lord KRSNa says in Bhagavad-gItA, mattaH parataraM nAnyat kiJcid asti dhanaJjaya: [bg. 7.7] "There is no truth superior to Me." Aham Adir hi devAnAm: "I am the origin of all the demigods." AhaM sarvasya prabhavaH: "I am superior to everyone, even Lord BrahmA, Lord Siva and the other demigods." These are the conclusions of the zAstra, and one who accepts these conclusions should be considered a first-class philosopher. Such a philosopher knows that the Supreme Personality of Godhead is the Lord of the demigods (deva-devezvaraM sUtram AnandaM prANavedinaH).</blockquote>

[gHari 0]

You may have misinterpreted Srivats. He is a gentle soul whose first language is not English. He has never been critical of anyone here. He probably agrees that the Kama that attacked Lord Buddha is the demigod Kama.

[gHari 0]

It may not be netiquette to comment on one's own post, especially creating a tangent, but .....

 

It just occurred to me that the 33,000,000 demigods are the reason that everything seems to point towards Krsna. The managers of these various phenomena we experience are all great devotees of God, and the role of the devotee is to point each of us toward his master.

 

Anyway, it seemed important at the time. (My) Words somehow don't seem able to capture the thought and do it justice.

 

Now back to our regularly programmed schedule, featuring Kama, dashing demigod of love.