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Hare Krsna


I would like to know what Srila Prabhupada said about Lord Siva, should we pray to him or should we only pray to Lord Krsna, I ask because Lord Siva is considered a great devotee of Lord Krsna, also my sister's mother-in-law, who I was chatting to and I said that Lord Krsna is greater than Lord Siva therefore we should only pray to him, she said there's no difference between them both, and that one cannot live without the other, and I couldn't think of a reply, any answers would be welcome prabhu's.

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Dear Punkech:


I hope you are well.The following are some excerpts from Srila Prabhupada's Bhagavad-gita As It Is regarding Lord Siva.




The Srimad-Bhagavatam affirms:


naitat samacarej jatu

manasapi hy anisvarah

vinasyaty acaran maudhyad

yatha 'rudro 'bdhi-jam visam


isvaranam vacah satyam

tathaivacaritam kvacit

tesam yat sva-vaco-yuktam

buddhimams tat samacaret


"One should simply follow the instructions of the Lord and His empowered servants. Their instructions are all good for us, and any intelligent person will perform them as instructed. However, one should guard against trying to imitate their actions. One should not try to drink the ocean of poison in imitation of Lord Siva." (Bhag. 10.33.30)

We should always consider the position of the isvaras, or those who can actually control the movements of the sun and moon, as superior. Without such power, one cannot imitate the isvaras, who are superpowerful. Lord Siva drank poison to the extent of swallowing an ocean, but if any common man tries to drink even a fragment of such poison, he will be killed. There are many pseudo-devotees of Lord Siva who want to indulge in smoking ganja (marijuana) and similar intoxicating drugs, forgetting that by so imitating the acts of Lord Siva they are calling death very near.(From Purport to Bhagavad-gita 3.24)


Krsna is different even from the great demigods like Brahma and Siva. And because He is the creator of Brahma, Siva and all the other demigods, He is the Supreme Person of all planets.(From Purport to Bhagavad-gita 10.3)


All Vedic literature agrees that Krsna is the source of Brahma, Siva and all other demigods. In the Atharva Veda it is said, "yo brahmanam vidadhati: purvam yo vai vedams ca gapayati sma krsnah.It was Krsna who in the beginning instructed Brahma in Vedic knowledge and who disseminated Vedic knowledge in the past." Then again it is said, "atha puruso ha vai narayano 'kamayata prajah srjeya ity upakramya.Then the Supreme Personality Narayana desired to create living entities." Again it is said:


narayanad brahma jayate, narayanad prajapatih prajayate, narayanad indro jayate, narayanad astau vasavo jayante, narayanad ekadasa

rudra jayante, narayanad dvadasadityah.



"From Narayana, Brahma is born, and from Narayana, the patriarchs are also born. From Narayana, Indra is born, from Narayana the eight Vasus are born, from Narayana the eleven Rudras are born, from Narayana the twelve Adityas are born."

It is said in the same Vedas, brahmanyo devaki-putrah: "The son of Devaki, Krsna, is the Supreme Personality." Then it is said:



eko vai narayana asin na brahma na isano napo nagni samau neme

dyav-aprthivi na naksatrani na suryah sa ekaki na ramate tasya

dhyanantah sthasya yatra chandogaih kriyamanastakadi-samjnaka

stuti-stomah stomam ucyate.


"In the beginning of the creation there was only the Supreme Personality Narayana. There was no Brahma, no Siva, no fire, no moon, no stars in the sky, no sun. There was only Krsna, who creates all and enjoys all"

In the many Puranas it is said that Lord Siva was born from the highest, the Supreme Lord Krsna, and the Vedas say that it is the Supreme Lord, the creator of Brahma and Siva, who is to be worshiped. In the Moksa-dharma Krsna also says,


prajapatim ca rudram capy aham eva srjami vai tau hi mam na vijanito mama maya-vimohitau. "The patriarchs, Siva and others are created by Me, though they do not know that they are created by Me because they are deluded by My illusory energy." In the Varaha Purana it is also said,


narayanah paro devas tasmaj jatas caturmukhah tasmad rudro 'bhavad devah sa ca sarva-jnatam gatah. "Narayana is the Supreme Personality of Godhead, and from Him Brahma was born, from whom Siva was born." (From Purport to Bhagavad-gita 10.8)


There are eleven Rudras, of whom Sankara, Lord Siva, is predominant. He is the incarnation of the Supreme Lord in charge of the modes of ignorance in the universe. (From Purport to Bhagavad-gita 10.23)


Among created manifestations, the total material elements are first created by Maha-Visnu and are annihilated by Lord Siva. (From Purport to Bhagavad-gita 10.32)


Worship of demigods is discouraged herein because even the greatest demigods like Brahma and Siva only represent part of the opulence of the Supreme Lord. He is the origin of everyone born, and no one is greater than Him. He is samata, which means that no one is superior to Him and that no one is equal to Him. In the Visnu-mantra it is said that one who considers the Supreme Lord Krsna in the same category with demigods--be they even Brahma or Siva--becomes at once an atheist. (From Purport to Bhagavad-gita 10.42)


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Why do you not give Lord Shiva, who is the greatest devotee of Krishna, the same respect you do to all of the other Vaishnava archaryas?

Iskcon observes the fasting of the apperance of the archaryas however on the apperance of Lord Shiva it is seen wrong to observe the fast, why the discrimination between the devotees of the Lord? Krishna certainly doesn't hold this view, as all His devotees are very dear to Him.


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Hare Krsna


Thanks for the reply, all the things you mentioned I sort of already knew having read some of the Bhagavatam, i.e. that Siva is born of Lord Krsna, but what I really wanted to know was as the above, as Srila Prabhupada is a pure devotee (and all glories to him) so is Lord Siva, so why can't you become a devotee of Lord Siva and serve him and then get his benediction to become a devotee of The Supreme Lord Krsna, I ask because most people know who Lord Siva is but don't know who Srila Prabhupada is, thanks prabhu's.

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from conversations:



Devotee: Srila Prabhupäda, in Winnipeg there is one very pious east Indian man who for many years has been worshiping somewhat, worshiping Lord Siva. And his wife is also a very quite chaste woman and sincere follower and so were her parents of Lord Siva. And he is reading your Bhagavad-gétä. He visits our temple. And I have given him the first volume of Canto Four which discusses Lord Siva a great deal. And he has read in one of your purports that Krsna is more pleased when you worship His devotee than when you worship Him directly. And Lord Siva is a very great devotee of Krsna. So he has now interpreted that to mean that if he worships Lord Siva so nicely, then actually he is pleasing Krsna more. So he is experiencing some difficulty because of this and I'm not quite sure how to instruct him that actually...


Prabhupäda: Difficulty?


Brahmänanda: That... Our Godbrother has difficulty in replying to this interpretation that Krsna says,You can please Me by worshiping My devotee, and Lord Siva is the devotee of Krsna. So therefore this man says,Then I shall worship Lord Siva. In that way I shall please Krsna.


Prabhupäda: But if he accepts Lord Siva is devotee of Krsna, then by worshiping Lord Siva he will be benefited. If he thinks Lord Siva is independent, then he will not be benefited.


Devotee (3): I've got him to accept that Lord Siva is devotee of Krsna, but there's no practical instruction in his worldly activities coming.


Prabhupäda: No, vaiñëavänäm yathä çambhuù: Amongst the Vaiñëavas, Sambhu, Lord Siva, is the greatest Vaisnava. So we worship Lord Siva as Vaisnava. We gives respect to Vaisnavas. So why not Lord Siva? Lord Siva is a big Vaisnava. But generally, the devotees of Lord Siva, they take Lord Siva is independent God. That is offensive. If you know that Lord Siva is also a devotee, you can give more respect to Lord Siva. Krsna will be pleased.


Devotee (3): Srila Prabhupäda, he does not chant Hare Krsna, he chants om siväya namah.


Prabhupäda: That's all right.


Devotee (3): It's all right?


Prabhupäda: He will gradually become devotee. When God, Lord Siva, will be pleased upon him, he will advise to worship.


Devotee (3): He is already trying to tell him to follow in your footsteps surely, so just before I left he said he will try once again to chant sixteen rounds of japa, Hare Krsna. He has tried already. He has a taste for...


Prabhupäda: If he simply understands that Lord Siva is a Vaisnava and if he worships Lord Siva, then he will get the benefit.


Brahmänanda: I was just thinking that in Hyderabad you also spoke something very unpopular when you were discussing about the worship of Lord Siva and Lord Krsna. And you used the example of the milk and the curd.


Prabhupäda: Yes.


Brahmänanda: And one man in the audience, he asked you, Who is the milk and who is the curd? And you said that Krsna is the milk, and Siva is the curd. And he did not like that.


Prabhupäda: There is milk and the curd. So one must become milk, one must become curd. So if Krsna is the origin of everything, then He must be the milk. Sarva-käraëa-käraëam [bs. 5.1].

éçvaraù paramaù kåñëaù


anädir ädir govindaù


[bs. 5.1]

So He is the cause of all causes. So if milk is the cause of curd, then Krsna is the milk. Come on. (some children enter room) Cause of all causes. Come forward. (end)

Morning Walk



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Iskcon observes the fasting of the apperance of the archaryas...



Iskcon only observes fasting on the appearance day of the four immediately previous acharyas in our line. We do not observe fasting for other acharya's in our line, nor for other great devotees. But we do observe festivities and remembrances on the appearance of all other great devotees, including Lord Shiva.



Why can't you become a devotee of Lord Siva and serve him and then get his benediction to become a devotee of The Supreme Lord Krsna...



If they understand that Lord Shiva is a servant of Krishna, then their worship is perfect. If they think Lord Shiva is the Supreme Lord, they will not receive the benefit of their worship (they will not please Lord Shiva, and he will not bless them with spiritual knowledge). If they worship Lord Shiva for material prosperity, he will destroy them, for if you take even a speck of dust from Lord Shiva, your material life will ultimately be ruined. This is his special benediction to bring them to knowledge.


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"Iskcon only observes fasting on the appearance day of the four immediately previous acharyas in our line. We do not observe fasting for other acharya's in our line, nor for other great devotees. But we do observe festivities and remembrances on the appearance of all other great devotees, including Lord Shiva."



This appears logical 'cos if devotees keep on fasting for all the previous acharyas, then there will be some day where they have to fast the whole of the year for all (>365)previous acharyas!.




"If they understand that Lord Shiva is a servant of Krishna, then their worship is perfect. If they think Lord Shiva is the Supreme Lord, they will not receive the benefit of their worship (they will not please Lord Shiva, and he will not bless them with spiritual knowledge). If they worship Lord Shiva for material prosperity, he will destroy them, for if you take even a speck of dust from Lord Shiva, your material life will ultimately be ruined. This is his special benediction to bring them to knowledge."



what do shaivites comment on this? I came across "http://www.hinduweb.org/home/general_sites/sita/" wherein they say something about "ISKCON Vs hindutva" and feel at odds with many of SP's comments.



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interesting question.


Since Shiva is dear to Krishna why not worship shiva ?


Well Shiva is a devotee of Krishna ,so

why not be like him ?

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That Hindutattva site is a racist one.Actual spiritual knowledge gives peace but today hindus have no peace.They do not like Srila Prabhupada because he says the truth and is bonafide.Also the idea that "all" are God does not make sense unless they are demigods.God is one without a second and all are his parts and parcels and are meant to serve him.


I avoid hindu sites for I find the same mentality there.Most of todays hindu organizations are actually terrorist.

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what do shaivites comment on this?



The Shaiva perspective is exactly the opposite. Shiva is the supreme Being with everyone else including Vishnu and Brahma, being subordinate to him. Wroshipping anyone else will result in downfall, etc, etc. Even the Padma Puraanaa which is supposed to be predominantly Vaishnava in content, in one place says that mentioning the name of Vishnu incurs the wrath of Shiva and should be avoided.



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In ancient times there had been many persecutions of Vaishnavas by saivites who controlled the kings. In some places it was a crime to wear the urdhva-pundra (vaishnava tilak). Even Ramanuja had his life put in danger for propagating Vaishnavism. Others were killed for this "crime".

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interesting question.


Since Shiva is dear to Krishna why not worship shiva ?


Well Shiva is a devotee of Krishna ,so

why not be like him ?



Another interesting question:


Since Radha is dear to Krishna why not worship Radha ?


Radha is the best devotee of Krishna, so Vaishnavas,

why not be like her ?


Hari /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif Hara bol!

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Hare Krsna


I think now..... you should pick a devotee, for me (Srila Prabhupada (after reading his purports on the Bhagavad Gita & Srimad Bhagavatam) I know he is a pure devotee of Lord Krsna, so just pick your devotee to serve and you will gain the service of Lord Krsna and be happy! eternally.


As SP said just live by the 4 regulative principles & chant 16 rounds of the Hare Krsna Maha-Mantra with a vow before Srimati Tulasi Devi and leave the rest to Lord Krsna, easy it sounds but to deliver very very hard, Hare Krsna Prabhu's.

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" The Choice--Krishna Or Maya "

Srimad-Bhagavatam 1.2.18

August 21, 1972, Los Angeles


Pradyumna: (leads chanting, etc.)


nasta-prayesv abhadresu

nityam bhagavata-sevaya

bhagavaty uttama-sloke

bhaktir bhavati naisthiki

[sB 1.2.18]


Translation: "By regularly hearing the Bhagavatam and rendering service unto the pure devotee, all that is troublesome to the heart is practically destroyed, and loving service unto the glorious Lord, who is praised with transcendental songs, is established as an irrevocable fact."


Prabhupada: So here it is said bhagavata-sevaya, not bhagavan-sevaya. Bhagavan is Krsna, the Supreme Personality of Godhead, and bhagavata means in relation with Bhagavan, who has got relationship with Bhagavan. So here it is recommended bhagavata-sevaya, not bhagavan-sevaya. The idea is that you cannot approach Bhagavan, God, directly. That is not possible. First of all, you have to serve bhagavata, the devotee bhagavata.


There are two kinds of bhagavata: book bhagavata and devotee bhagavata. So in the Siva Purana, there was a question by Parvati to Lord Siva. Lord Siva and Parvati, husband and wife. Parvati means the material nature. Srsti-sthiti-pralaya-sadhana-saktir eka chayeva yasya bhuvanani bibharti durga [bs. 5.44]. Durga-devi. Durga-devi is in charge of this material world. It is called durga, durga, just like fort. And the superintendent of this fort is Durga. You cannot go out of this fort; you are imprisoned. So such Durga-devi, who is so powerful energy -- she can create, annihilate, maintain, srsti-sthiti-pralaya-sadhana -- she is always sitting by the side of her husband, Lord Siva, and questioning about spiritual enquiries. Just see. Such powerful deity is also ignorant about spiritual life. So the husband, Lord Siva, is Vaisnava, and she's always asking, and sitting down underneath a bael tree. She can create so many universes, but for her, no building; only underneath a tree.


So the question was, "Which worship is best?" So Lord Siva replied, aradhananam sarvesam visnor aradhanam param: "My dear Parvati, of all methods of worship, Visnu worship is the topmost." There are many demigods' worship, even Lord Siva's worship, but Lord Siva says, "Visnu worship is the best." Then he says again, tasmat parataram devi. "My dear Devi, better than that Visnu worship is tadiyanam samarcanam." Tadiya. Tadiya means those who are in relationship with Visnu, tadiya. Just like His devotee, tadiya. Tulasi-vrksa. Tulasi is tadiya. Or temple tadiya. Preaching tadiya. Tadiyanam samarcanam. This is bhagavata. So Lord Siva recommends that "Of all methods of worship, Visnu worship is the best, and better than Visnu worship is to worship His devotee or things in relationship with Him."


Tadiyanam, that is bhagavata. Here it is also said, tadiyanam, bhagavata-sevaya. This book bhagavata, spoken by the devotee bhagavata, this should be taken very seriously daily. Otherwise you..., we do not understand what is Bhagavan. Therefore it is recommended here: nityam, daily, or constantly, twenty-four hours. We have to mold our life in such a way that twenty-four hours, not a single moment leaving aside, we should be engaged in bhagavata-sevaya, in the service of Lord's relations. The Srimad-Bhagavatam, Bhagavad-gita, the spiritual master, tulasi-devi, the temple, the preaching, the books -- these are all bhagavata. So nityam bhagavata-sevaya. Nasta-prayesu. If we engage ourself in this bhagavata-sevaya... Just like we are doing daily, trying to read one verse of Srimad-Bhagavatam, discussing amongst ourselves. This is bhagavata-sevaya. Nityam, daily, regularly. By this process, when the dirty things within the heart, nasta-prayesv abhadresu [sB 1.2.18].


Abhadra means dirty things, inauspicious things. What is that inauspicious thing? Inauspicious things means the heart disease for sense enjoyment; this is inauspicious, Different varieties, abhadresu. There are three modes of material nature. And multiply it three, mix it again, it becomes nine, and again multiplied, nine by nine, it becomes eighty-one. So these, this... Originally the three... Just like three colors, yellow, red and blue. These three colors, you mix... Those who are artists, those who know the color display... Simply you mix three colors in different way, and it becomes varieties of color. So our heart disease, dirty thing, varieties of sense enjoyment, varieties. So heart is full with varieties of sense enjoyment. Therefore by nityam bhagavata-sevaya [sB 1.2.18], by daily, regular worshiping Bhagavatam, we become free from the dirty things.


In the previous verse we have read that srnvatam sva-kathah krsnah punya-sravana-kirtanah, hrdy antah stho hy abhadrani [sB 1.2.17]. We have got abhadrani, so many inauspicious things, within our heart. This can be cleansed simply by hearing the message of Krsna from Srimad-Bhagavatam, from Bhagavad-gita, from the lips of devotees. In this way, when almost the dirty things are cleared off -- not all... As soon as all dirty things are cleared off, then we are liberated soul. Immediately love of God, the original consciousness. You become mad. Just like Caitanya Mahaprabhu,


yugayitam nimisena

caksusa pravrsayitam

sunyayitam jagat sarvam

govinda-virahena me


"Feeling separation of Govinda." How? "One moment is equal to twelve years," yugayitam. One yuga means twelve years. One moment appearing. Sometimes we have got experience, if we want to see something, it is called expectant psychology. I am expecting something, somebody, that my friend or my lover is coming. So on the door, if there is "koot,Oh, you have come? No, no. He has not come." The one moment is twelve years. Such kind of separation, when we feel for Krsna, that means all dirty things are over. And something for Krsna, something for sense enjoyment, that means still the dirty things are there. But the more we engage our time, nityam bhagavata-sevaya, the dirty things becomes cleansed, gradually. Just like when you are hungry, you are given foodstuff, you eat. The more you eat, your hunger is satisfied. You feel strength, you feel satisfaction. Similarly, the more you advance in Krsna consciousness, you feel comfortable, released from the material discomforts. In this way, nasta-prayesu. Gradual process.


So nasta-prayesv abhadresu nityam bhagavata-sevaya [sB 1.2.18]. Not all cleansed, but praya, say, seventy-five cleansed. At that time, you become fixed-up in devotional service, naisthiki. There are different stages of devotional service. That I have explained several times. First of all, sraddha, sadhu-sanga, bhajana-kriya, anartha-nivrttih syat. When anartha-nivrttih syat, all unwanted things are finished, at that time, nistha, firm faith. So bhagavaty uttama-sloke bhaktir bhavati naisthiki. So, so long there are dirty things, our faith and devotion in Krsna is not very fixed up, sometimes we deviate, we go away. But then nasta-prayesu, when seventy-five percent of the dirty things are cleansed, then our faith in God becomes fixed up. Bhagavaty uttama-sloke.


Uttama, uttama means udgata-tama. This material world is tama, ignorance, darkness. And Krsna is beyond this material world; therefore He is called para. Para means transcendental. So uttama-sloka. So when we offer our prayers to Krsna, they are not ordinary words. Therefore those who are not liberated soul, they cannot offer prayers actually. We have to repeat the prayers offered by liberated soul, not by ordinary man. Because he is not yet uttama, he is not yet in the transcendental platform. Therefore we don't allow songs which are not sung by liberated souls like Bhaktivinoda Thakura, Narottama dasa Thakura. They are liberated souls. We don't allow any literature which is not given by liberated soul. Literatures, they are always following Vedic principles. Vedas, the original transcendental literature, and any literature which is produced under the guidance of Vedic literature, that is also nice. That is perfect. Therefore whenever we write something, we give immediately Vedic evidence. We give some Sanskrit verse. This means that we are not manufacturing ourself. What we have heard from the parampara system, from higher authorities, we are presenting, simply, in our own language, and the evidence is this Vedic verse. This is perfect literature.


So whimsically, we cannot write any poetry for Krsna. That is not possible. That will create havoc. Srila Rupa Gosvami says,



pancaratra-vidhim vina

aikantiki harer bhaktir

utpatayaiva kalpate

[bRS 1.2.101]


Any devotional sentiment which is not supported by Vedas, sruti... Sruti means Veda, and smrti means corollary to the Veda, or things which are written in corroboration with the Vedic ideas... That is called smrti. Just like Bhagavad-gita is smrti. Bhagavad-gita, the purpose of Bhagavad-gita is the same as the Vedas, but it is not directly Veda; therefore it is called smrti. Sruti-smrti-puranadi [bRS 1.2.101]. The Puranas, there are eighteen Puranas. Puranadi means Ramayana, Mahabharata also. Sruti-smrti-puranadi-pancaratra-vidhim vina [bRS 1.2.101]. Pancaratra-vidhi, given by Narada Muni for worshiping the Deity. We are worshiping the Deity under the pancaratra-vidhi. So Rupa Gosvami says that "Any devotional service which has no reference with sruti, smrti, purana, pancaratra, that is simply a disturbance. Simply disturbance, creating disturbance." We cannot manufacture. Sometimes we are questioned, "Can we do this? Can we do that?" Of course, it is good. But there is no need of manufacturing some idea. Whatever idea is already there, follow strictly.


So bhagavaty uttama-sloke bhaktir bhavati naisthiki. That fixed up bhakti is required, not oscillating: sometimes this side, sometimes that side. So this can be possible, fixed up devotional service, by nityam bhagavata-sevaya [sB 1.2.18], regularly worshiping the bhagavata-grantha and the devotee bhagavata. Because without hearing about God authentically, how we can fix up? So we should hear, srnvatam sva-kathah krsnah. Sva-kathah krsnah [sB 1.2.17]. Krsna's word is given by Krsna. Just like Bhagavad-gita. Sva-kathah means "His own words." So this is bhagavata. And sva-kathah, Srimad-Bhagavatam is also sva-kathah. The Puranas also, sva-kathah. Because all these books are given by Vyasadeva. Vyasadeva is incarnation of Krsna. So that is also sva-kathah. So we have to hear about Krsna which is given by Krsna. Bhagavad-gita is given by Krsna, and Bhagavata and other Puranas and Vedic literature given by Krsna Dvaipayana Vyasa. And the method is taught by Krsna Caitanya Mahaprabhu. So therefore, everything is Krsna's. Krsna directly, Krsna as Vyasadeva; Krsna as Caitanya Mahaprabhu devotee.


So we have to follow this. Sri-krsna-caitanya prabhu nityananda, sri-advaita gadadhara srivasadi-gaura-bhakta-vrnda. Krsna is teaching how to approach Krsna. That is bona fide. We cannot take any other method. This is the authorized method. The, the person concerned, He is teaching how to worship Krsna, how to become devotee. Krsnaya krsna-caitanya-namne. Rupa Gosvami said,"Lord Caitanya, You are Krsna, but You have appeared as Krsna Caitanya." Krsnaya krsna-caitanya-namne. Namo maha-vadanyaya krsna-prema-pradaya te [Madhya 19.53]. "You are distributing love of Krsna." How it is possible for ordinary man? "But Krsna, because You are Krsna, simply You are in the name of Krsna Caitanya. So therefore You can distribute. Your thing, You can distribute."




srnvatam sva-kathah krsnah


hrdy antah stho hy abhadrani

vidhunoti suhrt satam

[sB 1.2.17]


Nasta-prayesv abhadresu. A little, maybe; not all. There may be some habitual... But still, even there are some flaws in the beginning, if we fix up our devotion to Krsna... That is also confirmed in the Bhagavad-gita:


api cet su-duracaro

bhajate mam ananya-bhak

sadhur eva sa mantavyah

samyag vyavasito hi sah

[bg. 9.30]


ksipram bhavati dharmatma

sasvac-chantim nigacchati

kaunteya pratijanihi

na me bhaktah pranasyati


So in the beginning we must be sincere, very sincere, to follow the rules and regulations. But due to our past habits, if there is some flaw, that is excused. Not intentionally. Because I am habituated to something, and I am, although engaged in Krsna consciousness, my past habits sometimes becomes manifest. So Krsna says, "All right, you try your best. It will be rectified." Ksipram bhavati dharmatma. Ksipram means "Very soon, you'll be dharmatma, perfect, religious." Ksipram bhavati dharmatma sasvac-chantim nigacchati: "And you'll be elevated to the eternal platform of peace and tranquillity." Kaunteya pratijanihi na me bhaktah pranasyati: "If one is sincere devotee, he'll be not lost. He'll make progress." But if there is any ulterior motive, then he'll be lost. Maya is there. The maya, just like shadow and light, they're side by side. A little crossing the marginal line between shadow and light, you are in the darkness. Similarly, a little crossing of the marginal line from the darkness to light, you are in light.


So Krsna and maya are side by side. As soon as you forget Krsna, or as soon as you want to utilize Krsna for your sense gratification, it is immediately maya, darkness. And as soon as you want to serve Krsna, immediately it is light. So if we keep ourself on this side, light side, always serving Krsna, then there is no possibility of our being in contact with maya.


daivi hy esa gunamayi

mama maya duratyaya

mam eva ye prapadyante

mayam etam taranti te

[bg. 7.14]


This maya is very strong. The same example yesterday we were giving. The sun, little deviation, the whole world, universe, becomes frozen, and little deviation, the whole universe becomes ablaze. This is the position, very... Therefore our position is marginal. We are called marginal energy. We may be dark side or in the light side. So Krsna consciousness means to keep always in the light side. If we always think of Krsna, by chanting Hare Krsna mantra, then we shall keep ourself on the light side. And as soon as we think of sense gratification, immediately we are on the dark side. So our... We should be very cautious that we may not fall down on the dark side. We can keep ourself in the light side by nityam bhagavata-sevaya [sB 1.2.18]. Simply studying Srimad-Bhagavatam, Bhagavad-gita, try to understand, chanting Hare Krsna mantra. Twenty-four hours be engaged in this way. You'll be on the light side.


Read the purport.


Pradyumna: "Here is the remedy for eliminating all inauspicious things within the heart which are considered to be obstacles in the path of self-realization. The remedy is the association of the Bhagavatas. There are two types of Bhagavatas, namely the book Bhagavata and the devotee Bhagavata. Both the Bhagavatas are competent remedies, and both of them or either of them can be good enough to eliminate the obstacles. A devotee Bhagavata is as good as the book Bhagavata because the devotee Bhagavata leads his life in terms of the book Bhagavata and the book Bhagavata is full of information about the Personality of Godhead and His pure devotees, who are also Bhagavatas. Bhagavata book and person are identical. The devotee Bhagavata is a direct representative of Bhagavan, the Personality of Godhead, so by pleasing the devotee Bhagavata one can receive the benefit of the book Bhagavata. Human reason fails to understand how by serving the devotee Bhagavata or the book Bhagavata one gets gradual promotion on the path of devotion. But actually these are the facts explained by Srila Naradadeva, who happened to be a maidservant's son in his previous life. The maidservant..."


Prabhupada: There is another Vedic evidence:


yasya deve para bhaktir

yatha deve tatha gurau

tasyaite kathita hy arthah

prakasante mahatmanah

[sU 6.23]


To... Vedic literature, the meaning becomes revealed to a person who has got unflinching faith in God and the spiritual master. Just like Gaura Kisora dasa Babaji Maharaja, he was illiterate, but he became the spiritual master of Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Gosvami. So the purport of the Vedic literature becomes revealed to a person who has got unflinching faith in God and the spiritual master. Go on.


Pradyumna: "The maidservant was engaged in the menial service of the sages, and thus he also came into contact with them. And simply by associating with them and accepting the remnants of foodstuff left by the sages, the son of the maidservant got the chance to become the great devotee and personality Srila Naradadeva. These are the miraculous effects of the association of Bhagavatas. And to understand these effects practically, it should be noted that by such sincere association of the Bhagavatas one is sure to receive transcendental knowledge very easily..."


Prabhupada: So our principle should be not to disassociate ourself from the devotees. Narottama dasa Thakura therefore sings, tandera carana-sebi-bhakta-sane bas, janame janame hoy ei abhilas: "I desire birth after birth to serve the acaryas and to live with devotees." So our this association, society's is giving these two opportunity: you serve the purpose or the orders of the acaryas and live with devotees. Then you will be secure in devotional service. Tandera carana-sebi-bhakta-sane bas. Bhakta-sane bas is very important thing. Even there is little inconvenience, still we should stick to live with the devotees. Then we shall be profited. Go on.


Pradyumna: "...with the result that he becomes fixed in the devotional service of the Lord. The more progress is made in devotional service under the guidance of the Bhagavatas, the more one becomes fixed in the transcendental loving service of the Lord. The messages of the book Bhagavata, therefore, have to be received from the devotee Bhagavata, and the combination of these two Bhagavatas will help the neophyte devotee to make progress on and on." (end)


>>> Ref. VedaBase => Srimad-Bhagavatam 1.2.18 -- Los Angeles, August 21, 1972






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When Lord Krishna and Radharani played the magnificent Divine dance of 'Maha Raasa Lila', Shankar Bhagavan entered the Lila as a Gopi.


Thus He became popular with the Name Gopi-Isvara.


There is a temple in Vrindavan for Gopisvara, Whom all Vrajavasis including GVs worship with love.




Shri Mahadeva protects the Holy Dham of Braja, and every wise pilgrim must go to offer his respect and homage unto him.


Shri Mahadeva presides in Vraja as Gopishvara in Vrindavan, Bhuteshvara in Mathura, Nandishvara at Nandagrama, Kameshvara at Kamyavana, Cakaleshvara at Govardhan and Kundeshvara at Radha Kund.


Prior to parikrama of Radha Kund we offer our respects to Kundeshvara Mahadeva, and prior to entering Vamsi Vat we pray for the blessing of Gopishvara Mahadeva, who guards the arena of the sacred circle dance.


Every Vaishnava in the Holy Dham prays for the kind blessing of Shri Mahadeva.


Visvanatha writes in his Sankalpa Kalpadruma (103):


vRndAvanavani-pate! jaya soma soma-maule


gopIzvara! vraja-vilAsi-yugAGghri-padme

prema prayaccha nirupAdhi namo namaste

"O gatekeeper of Vrindavana! O Soma, all glories to you! O you whose forehead is decorated with the moon, and who is worshipable for the sages headed by Sanaka, Sanandana, Sanatana and Narada! O Gopisvara! Desiring that you bestow upon me prema for the lotus feet of Shri Shri Radha-Madhava who perform joyous pastimes in Vraja-dhama, I offer pranamas unto you time and again!"


- - - - - -


Every Gaudiya Vaishnava who prays to Pancha Tattva is worshipping Lord Shiva, as Sri Advaitacarya is Lord Shiva Himself.


In Caitanya Caritamrita, Mahaprabhu's eternal Associate Sri Advaitacarya is said to be Lord Shiva, who always says,


"I am the servant of Lord Krishna."


Intoxicated by ecstatic Love for Krishna, He becomes overwhelmed and incessantly dances without clothing and sings about Lord Krishna's qualities and pastimes.




In Caitanya Bhagavata of Vrndavana dasa, there is a nice description of PRIVATE meeting of Mahaprabhu and Advaitacarya. It is again confirmed there that Lord Shiva Himself appeared as Advaitacarya.


As it is clearly declared:


Chapter nine. text 84. Anyone who does not like one of these two Lords does not like both Lords. Lord Caitanya and Lord Advaita are like Lord Krishna and Lord Shiva.




An episode from Lord Caitanya Mahaprabhu's Pastimes:


"Lord Caitanya soon arrived in 'Jalesvara' village.



He went directly to the TEMPLE OF SIVA, the main Deity in that village.



The Siva-Linga Deity was well looked after by local brahmana priest.



The floral decorations in the temple and on the diety were attractive and the smell of incense permeated the air giving the place an exhilarating devotional mood.



Devotees in the temple were singing, playing musical instruments, and dancing. The Lord's anger (for Lord Nityananda breaking His sanyasi danda) subcided in that joyful atmosphere.



He let the loving devotional feelings in His heart gradually flow and merge in with the music.



Enlivened by His Dear Devotee's, (Lord Siva's) opulence and influence in the temple, Lord Caitanya began to dance happily.









Lord Caitanya KNOWS the Lord Siva's glorious character, for He is the FAVORITE among His devotees.









As the Lord danced, He made joyful sounds so loud that the very mountains seemed to tremble.


Lord Shiva's devotees were struck with amazement and thought that




The musicians and singers reached a crescendo and the Lord became fully absorbed in dancing, losing all contact with the outside world.



Meanwhile, His devotees arrived. Mukunda began to sing, joined by others. Seeing His beloved associates, the Lord experienced great joy and DANCED more vigorously while the devotees danced circling Him.



The whole scene was dynamically TRANSFORMED.



Tears flowed out effusively in a hundred streams from Lord's eyes. Who can describe all the happenings properly?









(An excerpt from 'Caitanya Bhagavata', Antya-Lila chapter 2, page 453, by B.V.Puri Goswami)


This verse is from an excerpt on 'Bhakti' written in 'Uttara Khanda' of Sri Rama Carita Manas by Saint Sri Tulasidasa and spoken by Lord Ramacandra Himself.


Lord Ramacandra said:



" aurau eka guputa mata sabahi kahaum kara jori,

shankara bhajana binaa nara bhagati na paavai mori "


With folded hands I now lay before you one MORE SECRET doctrine:




There is one thing more which seems to be Tulasidasa's specific contribution - not emphasized by other saints, and that is the worship of Lord Shiva.


Ramachandra Himself says that without the WORSHIP of SHIVA, one CANNOT cultivate His Bhakti. In this way the poet resolved the conflict between Shaivas and Vaishnavas. Probably for this reason, in North India the conflict never assumed such proportions as it did in the South.


It should not be imagined that Tulasi dasa regarded Shiva as INFERIOR to Rama. The RELATION between Rama and Shiva is very PECULIAR.


Rama WORSHIPS Shiva and Shiva WORSHIPS Rama. Tulasi says that Shiva is AT ONCE the servant, the friend, and the Lord of Rama. It ONLY means that the two are one with different forms; this is possible in Acintya-bheda-abheda.


In the Padma Purana, it is said:


aradhananam sarvesam

visnor aradhanam param

tasmat parataram devi

tadiyanam samarcanam


Once, Parvati-devi asked Lord Siva,

"Of all kinds of worship, whose

worship is best?"

Then, Lord Siva told her plainly, "The worship and devotional service of Lord Narayana, Visnu, is the highest."


Then Parvati became a little mortified and disappointed, thinking, "But I

am serving Siva, so I hold a lower position."


Then the next line came - tasmat parataram devi tadiyanam samarcanam.


"But higher than the worship of Narayana is worship of the devotees of Lord Narayana. That is even greater than devotion to the Lord Himself."


Then, Parvati smiled, thinking, "Then I am serving the devotee of the Lord.

Siva is a devotee: vaisnavanam yatha sambhuh. So, I am doing the best thing."


This is also confirrned by Krsna, in the Adi Purana :


ye me bhakta-janah partha

ne me bhaktas ca te janah

mad bhaktanam ca ye bhaktas

te me bhaktatama matah


"Those who worship Me directly are not real devotees; real devotees are those who are devoted to My devotees."


1. Puranas have described that the consort of Lord Vishnu, Lakshmi devi herself worshipped Lord Shiva, even offering her own bosom in place of lotus flowers, and thus the 'bael' fruit and tree had become very dear to Shiva.


2. Lord Rama also worshipped Shiva at Ramesvara and saints wrote that he too offered his lotus eyes to Shiva as a substitute for lotus flowers.


3. Mother Sitadevi worshipped the consort of Lord Shiva, Gauridevi and Shiva before the 'bow breaking' at her 'Swayamvara'.


4. Queen Rukmini worshipped Gauridevi, the consort (Svarupa shakti) of Lord Shiva prior to Lord Krishna's arrival at her wedding.


5. So did the Gopis of Vraja at Katyayani (Consort of Lord Shiva) Vrata.


6. Lord Caitanya had also met his consort Lakshmipriya devi and other maiden performing worship to Lord Shiva on the banks of Ganges and blessed them accordingly proving the oneness of their Lordships.


7. Saint Vidyapati also wrote in his poems that Sri Radha herself prayed to Lord Shiva for protection from the 'cupid' and for blessings offering her lotus hands and bosom as a substitute for flowers and fruits.


8. In 'Vidagdhamadhavam', Sri Roopa wrote Radhaji going to Gauridevi (consort of Lord Shiva) temple for worship.


9. In his "Hamsa Duta' kavya, Roopa goswami wrote Radha Herself worshipping Lord Shiva and praying for Her Beloved's return to Vraja.


10. The favorite saint of Mahaprabhu, Jayadeva kaviraja himself prayed to Lord Shiva in 'mangalacarana' of his compositions.


11. Arjuna was advised by Lord Krishna Himself to do penance and worship to Lord Shiva to obtain 'Paashupatyaastram' which alone was able to win his powerful rival in Mahabharata war.


12. The Rasik Saint Bilva Mangala thakur, whose Sri Krishna Karmritam was enjoyed by Gauranga Mahaprabhu stated that after all he was a Shaivaite from birth but Lord Krishna had stolen his heart!


zaivAvayam na khalu tatra vicAraNIyam

paGcAkSarI japa parAn itarAM tadhApi

ceto madIya matasI kusumAvabhAsaM

smerAnanam smarati gopa vadhU kizoraM


(SKK 2. 24)


Meaning -


I have always belonged to the 'Shaiva Sect' and I have been sincerely CHANTING the "Shiva Pancaakshari Mantra" - "Om Namah Shivaaya" all along.


But I have NO IDEA WHY this Young Sweetheart of Gopis is following me and my heart is also enjoying the REMEMBERENCE of His Smiling, Beautiful Blue face!!! "



13. Sri Kedaara naath Bhakti Vinoda parents were worshippers of (so called demigod) Lord Shiva and the 'name', i.e. 'Kedaara Naath' given to this swami was a well known epithet of Lord Shiva.



[Worship of Lord Shiva is a 'bhushana' for all Vaishnavas, so let us not indulge in 'dushana' of Lord Shiva.



gaGgA taraGga ramaNIya jaTAkalApam

gaurI nirantara vibhusSita vAmabhAgam,

nArAyanapriyam anaGgamadApahAram,

vArANasI purpatiM bhaja viSvanAthaM


Worship Sri Vishwanatha, the Lord of Varanasi,

whose locks look charming with the ripples of the Ganga;

who is ever adorned on His left by Gauri (the Divine Mother),

the Beloved of Narayana,

and the destroyer of Cupid’s pride.


vAacAm agocaram aneka guNasvarUpaM

vAgIza viSNu surasevita pAdapIThaM,

vAmena vigrahavareNa kalatravantam

vArANasI purpatiM bhaja viSvanAthaM


Worship Lord Shiva, Vishwanatha, the Lord of Varanasi,

Who is beyond speech, the repository of limitless attributes;

Whose feet are worshipped by Brahma, Vishnu

and other gods,

and Who has His wife (Gauri) on His left.


(Sri Vishvanathashtakam. verses 1, 2)






. If Lord Shiva is indeed the Supreme Lord, then why should He not be worshipped as such ?



But He is Gopishvara also, Who Himself is eternally in Love with Gopi-vallabha Krishna, and He enters Maha Raasa as the Gopi Who is but another expansion of Radharani, Lord Krishna's Swaroopa shakti.

So Gaudiyas worshipping the Divine couple, together with Gopishvara is accepted by Rasik saints.


We can worship Advaitacarya alone as a guru but worshipping together with Mahaprabhu is Panca tattva upasana. We can worship Hanumanji alone but he will in turn offer the devotees' worship to Lord Rama.


Lord Shiva (Gopishvara) and Lord Krishna (Gopivallabha) are eternal Lovers, no matter how the conditioned souls percieve Them according to their own sanskaras.


Their pastimes of mutual eternal Love for each other are always enjoyed by the devotees of both Divinities.


The prayers to Lord Shiva addressing him such as-


mukunda priya= very dear to Mukunda, Lord Krishna

mAdhavAhlAda= giver of enjoyment to Madhava, Krishna

garuDadhvajApta= very intimate relation of Vishnu Whose banner is adorned by Garuda, the King of birds

nArAyaNa priya= Lover of Narayana


and so on.. prove Their Divine Love.


Lord Caitanya had also stressed this point by His pastimes with Advaitacarya Who was the incarnation of Lord Shiva.

The traditional Gaudiya acaryas know Their Divine relationship very well except for a few recent followers.


Devotees of Lord Ramacandra should keep their faith in the words of Lord Rama Himself.



Here is another ancient verse describing the loving pastimes of These Two Divine Lovers-


bANAtvaM vRSamatvam-ardha-vapuSA bhAryA tvam AryApate

ghoNatvaM sakhitA mRdanga-vahatA c'etyAdi rUpaM dadhau,

tvatpade nayanArpanAM ca kRtavAn tvad-deha-bhAgo hariH

pUjyAt pUjyataraH sa eva hi na cet ko vA tadanyo 'dhikaH


(Sivananda Lahari. 82 - Sri Shankara Bhagavatpada)


Lord Vishnu, Hari, Who took many forms -


as Thy arrow,

as Thy mount,

as Thy Consort occupying half Thy body,

as a Boar,

as Thy Friend,

as Thy Drummer etc.,-


has offered His Own eyes at Thy feet in place of Lotus Flowers,

forming Part of Thy very Own Being!


O Lord Shiva! You indeed are the most worshipful among the Worshipful!


If not He (Gopishvara), Who is there to excel Him?


'svapne jAgaraNe zazvath kRSNa dhyAna rataH zivaH

yathA kRSNA stathA zambhur na bhedo mAdhavezayoH"

(Brahma Vaivarta Purana-Prakriti khanda II.56.61)


"Sleeping or awake, Siva is constantly absorbed in MEDITATION of KRISHNA.


As is Krishna, so is ShAmbhu; There is NO DIFFERENCE between MADHAVA and ISA"


'yo hariH sa zivaH sAkSAd yaH zivaH sa svayaM hariH

ye tayor bhedamAti sthan narakAya bhave nnaraH


(Visnu purana.5.33.46)


"Whoever is Lord Hari, He Himself is Lord Shiva indeed.


Whoever is manifesting as Lord Shiva, He Himself is Lord Hari.


Any humanbeing mistakes both the Lords to be different, he/she surely goes to hell.


(what to speak of going to Vaikuntha, Dwaraka or Vrindavana!)


In Vishnu Purana also, VISHNU declares HIS NON DIFFERENCE from SIVA. (V.P.5.33.46-48)


Here we find, full justification for the statement in the Narada PancaRatra concerning the BVP as teaching the NON DIFFERENCE between HARI AND HARA.


Just as stated in Brahma-Samhita the relationship of Lord Siva and Lord Govinda are compared to that of milk and yogurt. Milk itself becomes TRANSFORMED into yogurt.


"kSIraM yathA dadhi vikAra vizeSa yogAt

saJjAyate na hi pRthag asti hetoH

yaH zambhu tAm api tathA samupaiti kAryAd

govindam AdipuruSaM tam ahaM bhajAmi"


Just as milk itself is transformed into curd (yogurt),

but yet they both are neither SAME nor DIFFERENT from each other,

so also I adore my Beloved primeveal Lord Govinda, Who has transformed Himself into Lord Shiva for the performance of divine lilas.


"yathA ziva mayo viSNuH

zivasya hRdayaM viSNur viSNoz

ca hRdayaM zivaH


(Skanda Purana)


Just as Lord Vishnu is pervaded by Lord Shiva,


similarly, in Siva's heart Vishnu resides and Vishnu's heart is the abode of Shiva.






Lord Vishnu= Lord Shiva= Gopishvara Shambhu= Sri Advaitacarya


Acintya-Bheda-Abheda Tattva ki jai!


Jaya Hari-Hara Mahadeva!





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jndas prabhuji,

Can u explain more about rudra sampradaya & kumara sampradaya.

I've heard about the 4 sampradayas:

rudra vaishnava sampradaya (Visnuswami) ,

brahma vaishnava sampradaya (Madhvacarya) ,

sri vaishnava sampradaya (Ramanuja), &

kumara vaishhava sampradaya (Nimbaditya).


Does saivism fall under rudra vaishnava sampradaya? what are the major religious organizations under these sampradayas?



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