Tarun 6 Report post Posted February 11, 2002 PrabhupAd spoke so much against Daridra-NArAyan, and now this? One of my bio-kin is listed in this lawsuit as plaintiff. I'm willing to testify for defense if ISKCON needs me. 1) Even though I'm not even allowed in one ISKCON temple and 2) I disagree with ISKCON's treatment of senior vaiSNavas, I still feel relative loyalty. My testimony would run about 70/30 in ISKCON's favor. Any Gurukula Child Abuse perpetrator or supporter should be singled out & held directly responsible as opposed to selling temples wherein good non-profit spiritual welfare work is still being done today. Krishnas to File for Bankruptcy A spokesman for the International Society for Krishna Consciousness (ISKCON) has confirmed that several of the movement's US temples are to file for bankruptcy later in February to avoid legal action which they say could close them down. A suit for $400m has been filed in Texas State Court by alleged victims of abuse in the temples' schools in the 1970s and '80s, saying they suffered rape, sexual abuse, physical torture and emotional terror. The amount being requested is so far beyond any realistic amount ISKCON spokesman Anuttama Dasa, ISKCON communications director, told BBC News Online that legal costs for fighting suit could bankrupt the movement anyway, even if it wins the case. However, filing for Chapter 11 bankruptcy, which gives companies breathing space for reorganisation, would allow movement to continue to compensate victims, he said. ISKCON, better known as the Hare Krishna movement, has admitted to some cases of abuse, and says it has tried to respond. Mr Dasa said it was "working with and beyond the government", spending hundreds of thousands of dollars on grants to people who had been abused and on measures to prevent future abuse. Movement at risk He added that those who had chosen instead to sue wanted an amount so unrealistic that ISKCON felt unable to settle out of court. Thousands of westerners joined Hare Krishna in "Peace and Love" era "The amount that [Dallas attorney] Windle Turley is requesting is so far beyond any realistic amount [so] that there is no scope for discussion," he said. "Legal fees [in US] are just out of control." Lawyers would not just go after temples being targeted but their affiliates as well, he said, potentially bringing down the entire movement. He added that current temple-goers who had nothing to do with the abuse now risked having their temples shut down because of deviant behaviour in the past. Boarding school culture The movement's founder, AC Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada, brought his form of Hindu devotionalism to America in the 1960s, at the height of the love and peace era and rejection of the war in Vietnam. Allegations Children forced to sleep in unheated rooms Forced to walk great distances in cold without coats or shoes Deprived of medical care for malaria, hepatitis and broken bones Scrubbed with steel wool until they bled Moved to schools in different states without parental consent Thousands of westerners joined Hare Krishna, donning the trademark saffron and orange robes, chanting mantras and collecting donations on the streets. Prabhupada said children should be sent to boarding schools at the age of five so they could learn to be pure devotees, freeing parents to sell devotional books and do other jobs. By end of 1970s, 11 schools, known as gurukulas or houses of the guru, were operating in North America with several more around the world. Most closed down in 1980s. See also: 23 May 01 | Business House of Fraser offends Hare Krishna 13 Jun 00 | Americas Krishnas face huge abuse claim 29 Nov 98 | South Asia Krishna devotee ties the knot 05 Apr 98 | S/W Asia Robot gods at temple Internet links: Hare Krishna World online International Society for Krishna Consciousness Attorney Windle Turley Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gHari 0 Report post Posted February 11, 2002 At last! Some positive support from the old wing. Thank you, Tarun. Maybe ISKCON does have to fake suicide, before the world realizes just how much they love her. ISKCON did not behave with spiritual integrity towards the maligned children, thereby falling under the jurisdiction and punishment of the material nature. Shocking headlines, but humility was missing, so I guess this is the price of the lesson. Hopefully this will revive Krsna consciousness throughout Prabhupada's mission, and destroy that attachment, ISKCON consciousness, forever. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Pratyatosa Dasa 0 Report post Posted February 21, 2002 Originally posted by Tarun: Any Gurukula Child Abuse perpetrator or supporter should be singled out & held directly responsible as opposed to selling temples wherein good non-profit spiritual welfare work is still being done today. This is a good point Tarun Prabhu, but this is not the way that the legal system works. An example might help explain this: The Catholic archdiocese of Dallas, TX was sued because one of it's priests sexually abused 11 altar boys. The case was finally settled for $23 million. Because the wayward priest had contributed to causing this liability (a cover-up by the higher ups actually caused most of the liability), the priest was in turn sued by the church. The church won, and although the church was not able to collect any of the money because the priest was bankrupt, at least they were able to "save some face". The point is, that loosing the lawsuit gave the Catholic archdiocese the ammunition that it needed to go after the priest. It is their responsibility to do this. It is not the responsibility of the victims. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Pratyatosa Dasa 0 Report post Posted February 24, 2002 Joseph Fedorowsky [lawyer@oxfordlaw.com] Thursday, February 14, 2002 8:16 AM Re ISKCON Chapter 11 Bankruptcy Hare Krishna. All glories to Srila Prabhupada. Apologies for unwanted delivery. The ISKCON bankruptcy filing is not a Chapter 7 'liquidation' case. Temples will not be sold or liquidated. Rather, a Chapter 11 'reorganization plan' will create a victims' fund to compensate any Gurukuli who may have been abused -- not just the Turley plaintiffs. Accordingly, those Gurukulis who did not support the spiritually offensive legal complaint which blamed Srila Prabhupada will not be penalized. ISKCON likely has no legal obligation to compensate anyone for events which occurred decades ago because of the intervening Statute of Limitations which caps the time to file a claim. Yet, by way of the Chapter 11 reorganization plan, ISKCON as an institution will effectively be recognizing its spiritual and moral obligation to an entire generation of children. That is obviously needed. The focus is then 'cooperation to closure' of this unfortunate chapter in ISKCON's history rather than wallowing in the litigation 'blame game.' With regards, Gupta das Joseph Fedorowsky lawyer@oxfordlaw.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Pratyatosa Dasa 0 Report post Posted February 24, 2002 Raghunata (John) Anudasa [raghu@roopa.org] Tuesday, February 19, 2002 2:23 AM lawyer@oxfordlaw.com RE: Re ISKCON Chapter 11 Bankruptcy OK Gupta, What does that mean for me. Everyone wants to know. They come to me. What should I say. What can I expect? What do you think is reasonable for me to anticipate, if anything? Talk to me. raghu Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Pratyatosa Dasa 0 Report post Posted February 24, 2002 Raghunata (John) Anudasa [raghu@roopa.org] Wednesday, February 20, 2002 1:20 PM lawyer@oxfordlaw.com RE: Re ISKCON Chapter 11 Bankruptcy A few things. 1 may I send this to the guru-kuli conference? 2 May I send this to my mailing list? 3 Can you give some estimate of time—6 months, 6 years? 4 Can you give some estimate of $$--$500, $5,000 or $50,000? How much do you trust that it will actually settle. I ask for the simple reason that if you are 100% sure it will settle, would you or anyone offer to give me 50% of it right now and take the full amount when it is settled. Cash today for things like a computer and car will do more for establishing me in 3 years from now then receiving triple that amount 3 years from now. It is essential for another, more important reason as well. Clarifying these questions will do wonders in making it feel like you are offering something real to the kulis versus just more legal posturing. It will be a great step in reassuring them that something is actually being done right now. Raghu Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gHari 0 Report post Posted March 3, 2002 I don't accept general whining as part of any legitimate demand for retribution. Reconstructive surgery after being brutally sodomized is what I consider should be cared for with absolute compassion by ISKCON. Considering other minor inconveniences in the same breath as rape is abominable. Walking a few miles in bare feet or finding a few bugs in your pudding happens to almost every kid at some point in their life. It is just not front page headlines. Like every kid on the planet, we just have to deal with it; just like scraping our knee on the cement or accidentally biting our tongue - we get over it. The misfortunes of the adults are certainly sad, but it would be completely demoniac to consider suing Prabhupada's mission over it. Have we lost our perspective entirely?<font color="#f7f7f7"> [This message has been edited by gHari (edited 03-03-2002).] Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Pratyatosa Dasa 0 Report post Posted March 3, 2002 Originally posted by gHari: The misfortunes of the adults are certainly sad, but it would be completely demoniac to consider suing Prabhupada's mission over it. Prabhu, all I'm saying is that the GBC's goal of dealing with all current and future lawsuits in one fell swoop, by declaring bankruptcy, is practically impossible, and some potential litigants are not going to be detoured from suing no matter what anyone says. Besides, its their legal right to sue, and anyone who interferes with that right in any way, including threats or intimidation, is a criminal, and is subject to federal prosecution ("U.S. Code : Title 18 : Section 1512 : Tampering with a witness, victim, or an informant" - http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/scripts/ts_search.pl?title=18&sec=1512). [This message has been edited by Pratyatosa Dasa (edited 03-04-2002).] Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gHari 0 Report post Posted March 3, 2002 I think that any devotee who sues ISKCON for wrongful dismissal, only proves that they belong on the outside, and that the dismissal was obviously Krsna's arrangement to get rid of the chaff. The only way to deal with it is to perfect one's life and let Krsna make suitable arrangements. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Pratyatosa Dasa 0 Report post Posted March 3, 2002 Originally posted by gHari: I think that any devotee who sues ISKCON for wrongful dismissal, only proves that they belong on the outside, and that the dismissal was obviously Krsna's arrangement to get rid of the chaff. If a devotee "sues ISKCON for wrongful dismissal", it's Krishna's divine arrangement. ("Not a blade of grass moves without the will of God.") Maybe the real "chaff" are the one's who are left! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gHari 0 Report post Posted March 3, 2002 Remembering Prabhupada's comments about the legal jockeying for the riches of the Gaudiya Math, one fears to guess what he would say about such legal battling over his ISKCON legacy. Dismantling the Deities and Temples is the same as killing Prabhupada, and is absolutely demonic. I do not see Prabhupada suing the Deities; neither do I call anyone who would, a devotee. It takes more than a uniform and a haircut to be considered a servant of LOrd Caitanya. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Pratyatosa Dasa 0 Report post Posted March 3, 2002 Lawsuits are a last resort. The GBC had years and years in which to take some positive action, but they failed to do anything except to make a few show bottle displays for PR purposes. Until the advent of the Turley lawsuit, the ISKCON leaders simply harassed the ex-gurukulis who had been sexually abused. Some of these victims even committed suicide. The lawsuit gave the victims new hope and vindication, and the suicides have stopped. Judge by the results! [This message has been edited by Pratyatosa Dasa (edited 03-04-2002).] Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gHari 0 Report post Posted March 3, 2002 Yes, the callousness that did not recognize the extreme trauma of sexual abuse and the resulting psychological difficulties that necessarily ensue, has certainly precipitated this extreme action. I cannot, for a moment, understand ISKCON not immediately retiring the sexually abused devotees so they could have an easier time coping with life. For not responding to God's desire here, they are now forced to do so. Still, Krsna will always recognize the reason they didn't behave with conscience immediately. They and their big plans certainly have none of my respect either. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Pratyatosa Dasa 0 Report post Posted March 6, 2002 Because of the unusually large number of victims and the grievous nature of the offenses against them, the only reasonable plan, in my humble opinion, is to auction off some of the ISKCON properties! This would not be as bad as it sounds, because I'm sure that much of the property would then be purchased by Krishna devotees who are members of the congregation, so the Hare Krishna movement would go on in the affected localities despite all of the upheaval. The only difference would be that these properties would no longer belong to ISKCON. Then the Federal bankruptcy court judge would decide how the proceeds from the property sales are to be distributed to the various victims. [This message has been edited by Pratyatosa Dasa (edited 03-06-2002).] Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tarun 6 Report post Posted March 6, 2002 Suppose they auction off ISKCON Brooklyn at Schermerhorn St. Maybe it's worth $1kk. Then what? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
