prapatti Vs Bhakti yoga

[abhi_the_great 0]

In my understanding Bhakti Yoga is the same as prapatti of the Sri Vaishnavas. But, as far as I have heard from the Sri Vaishnavas, they hold Prapatti to be a one time final surrender to the Lord which guarantees liberation in the very same birth.

 

Is there any one knowleadgeable of the possible differences in the way Gaudiyas understand bhakti and the Sri Vishanvas understand prapatti. Is the bhakti we follow as gaudiyas different from actual Bhakti Yoga?

 

Dandavat Pranams

Abhi

[Guest guest]

Nice topic abhi. This is a vast topic and there are some wonderful posts in the bhakti list of sri vaishnavas that illustrates sri vaishnava understanding of bhakti and prappatti. While prappatti can be performed regardless of one's background, bhakti yoga is difficult and needs qualifications.

 

In my understanding, as for as the gaudiyas go, there is no difference between bhakti and prappatti. In fact prappatti is considered as an anga of bhakti. But gaudiyas too have unstated differences. For example, to worship the Lord personally one is expected to be (brahmana) initiated.

[abhi_the_great 0]

Yes, something which put me off a li'l bit while talking to him is that, he claimed that bhakti-yoga is not practical in this age and only prapatti gurantees mukti. Bhakti-yoga is a long and tedious - stretched out process, but prapatti is instant. One surrender and DISHIUUUUUUUU VAIKUNTHA!! Seemed funny to me. I argued that no external process can guarantee mukti, other than ones true surrender. That is what SP expalins in the carama-sloka, he quotes HaribhaktiVilasa - anukoolasya sankalpa....sad-vidha saranagati.

 

At this point my Sri Vaishnava friend says - Yes, this is prapatti - not bhakti-yoga?? So are we actually performing bhakti-yoga or prapatti?

[suryaz 0]

Originally posted by abhi_the_great:

In my understanding Bhakti Yoga is the same as prapatti of the Sri Vaishnavas. But, as far as I have heard from the Sri Vaishnavas, they hold Prapatti to be a one time final surrender to the Lord which guarantees liberation in the very same birth.

 

Is there any one knowleadgeable of the possible differences in the way Gaudiyas understand bhakti and the Sri Vishanvas understand prapatti. Is the bhakti we follow as gaudiyas different from actual Bhakti Yoga?

 

Dandavat Pranams

Abhi

Yes! Gaudiyas accept the principle of nindastuti (derived from the Alvars and permeates BhP’s 10th canto) and Sri Vaishnavas do not

 

 

[raga 0]

Originally posted by abhi_the_great:

That is what SP expalins in the carama-sloka, he quotes HaribhaktiVilasa - anukoolasya sankalpa....sad-vidha saranagati.

 

At this point my Sri Vaishnava friend says - Yes, this is prapatti - not bhakti-yoga?? So are we actually performing bhakti-yoga or prapatti?

"Sad-vidha saranagati" -- this is prapatti. We might call it a "door to bhakti", if you will. It precedes actual pure devotional service, and is a requirement to the same, but it is not pure devotional service in itself. It is preliminary to engagement in actual navadha-bhakti (zravana-kIrtanAdi).

 

 

[abhi_the_great 0]

Originally posted by raga:

"Sad-vidha saranagati" -- this is prapatti. We might call it a "door to bhakti", if you will. It precedes actual pure devotional service, and is a requirement to the same, but it is not pure devotional service in itself. It is preliminary to engagement in actual navadha-bhakti (zravana-kIrtanAdi).

 

Yes Raga, I agree the 6 processess(sad-vidha saranagathi) are not really bhakti, but like a preparation. Thankyou for making that clear. Now let me come to the next question: Is navada-bhakti same as bhakti-yoga or only a part of bhakti yoga?

 

 

[Jahnava Nitai Das 2]

Sri Vaishnavas have their own technical definitions for words such as "bhakti", and as such it will be difficult to communicate on this point without first defining the words according to each schools view. The Gaudiya conception of bhakti includes sharanagati.

 

[abhi_the_great 0]

jn prabhu,

This is what I got from http://www.ahobilamutt.org/prapatti.html

 

In many Vedic literatures & in works of Sri Vaishnava AchAryAs, the term "Bhakti" is usually associated with the term

"Bhakti YogA", which is the meditation through ashtAnga yogA on the kalyAna gunAs, divyamangaLa vigrahA etc of

Sriman nArAyaNA with unsurpassed love. "Bhakti" referred here is the continuous stream of knowledge which is of the

nature of uninterrupted memory and which is unbroken like the flow of a stream of oil. This description is not be taken lightly.

The intensity of the uninterrupted nature of contemplation on Sriman nArAyaNA is the central focus of ashtAnga yogA.

There are 32 Brahma vidyAs (i.e. upAsanAs) that are prescribed in the upanishads. A devotee performing bhakti yogA will

adopt a particular Brahma VidyA as the means (sAdhyaupAyA) for attaining moksham. Due to lack of a proper word, the

term "Bhakti" is also sometimes used to imply "devotion" to Sriman NArAyaNA, which needn't be the "matured state of

jn~AnA" (i.e. "Bhakti" proper) expressed through ashtAnga yOgA.

 

The seven general pre-requisites for Bhakti YogA are:

 

1.VivekA (discrimination): Purification of body through proper intake of sAttvik food etc.

2.VimOkA (freedom): abjuration of all desires other than to meditate on Sriman nArAyaNA.

3.abhyAsA (practise): Practise worshiping the Lord with full enthusiasm (again & again). This involves strict

adherence to scriptures etc.

4.kriyA (work): proper adherence to the VarnAshrama dharmA mainly dealing with the pancha mahA yaj~nAs (this

makes only the dvijAs to be fit for starting "Bhakti yogA").

5.kalyANA (auspiciousness): practise of virtues like truthfulness, integrity, compassion, benevolence, ahimsA etc.

6.anavasAda: being without any despair due to dissappointment, completely forgetting all past sorrows.

7.anuddharSa: absence of exaltation i.e. being in a state which is the optimal midway between excessive joy & the

absence of it.

 

The severe practise of karma & jn~Ana yogA can only bringforth the stage for performing bhakti yogA. Jn~na yogA is the

"self-realization" ("self" stands for jIvAtmA), whereas "bhakti yogA" is "God-realization". So, "ashtAnga yogA" is performed

for God-realization i.e. for obtaining moksham.

 

Jn~Ani is a person who performs Bhakti YogA (God realization) & not jn~Ana yogA. The person performing Jn~Ana YogA

(self-realization) is known as kevalA. Jn~Ana YogA is the constant meditation of the self i.e. jIvAtmA. It results in Atma

sAkshAtkAram i.e. self-realization. It is however important to note that a kevalA is fully aware of his swaroopa of being

subservient to Sriman NArAyanA. But a kevalA is neverthless firmly attracted by the bliss derived in the meditation of his

own self (with the understanding as servant of nArAyaNA) & is unable to come over it & proceed further to meditate on

ParamAtmA Sriman NArAyanA. A kevalA's position is very much understandable since many a people in this world cannot

overcome even watching TV, cinemAs, sports etc which only have dry hapiness (fully material; not spiritual). The bliss

derived from the contemplation of the "self" (jIvAtmA) would certainly be attracting a kevalA like a magnet. He attains

"KaivalyA" wherein he attains the state in which he simply meditates on his own self (fully self-realized state). From there

he can continue further to perform bhakti yogA and attain moksham.

 

After perfecting karma & jn~Ana yogAs one will start performing "bhakti yogA" (since karma yogA by itself is integrated with

jn~Ana yogA, bhakti yogA can be started after its perfection also).

 

The perfection of bhakti yogA is through ashtAnga yogA which has 8 parts:

 

1.yama: self control & practise of virtues like ahimsA, non-covetousness, non acceptance of gifts etc.

2.niyama: practise of purity in thought, word & deed.

3.Asana: adoption of proper posture & seat.

4.prAnAyAma: Control & regulation of breath alongwith the reflection on the meaning of the mantrA like ashtAksharam.

5.pratyahAra: Withdrawl of mind & other senses from their out going tendencies.

6.dhAranA: fixing of the mind towards Sriman nArAyaNA. Depending upon the type of upAsanA (out of 32 Brahma

vidyAs prescribed in upanishads) one chooses, the contemplation on nArAyaNA will vary.

7.dhyAnA: Continuous meditation on the divya mangaLa vigrahA, kalyAna gunAs etc of nArAyaNA to the exclusion of

all other objects. One must be almost sinless to attain this stage of having deep and profound love towards Sriman

nArAyaNA which is the driving force for dhyAnA.

8.samAdhi: Final stage of concentration when the yogi attains the super-conscious state of divine life & becomes

united with Sriman nArAyaNA. There is "unity" & not "identity". When the dhyAnA ceases, this communion (i.e. unity)

with nArAyaNA also ceases. In other words, eternal communion is not possible as long as the jIvAtmA has

connection with prakruti. The culmination of samAdhi is the attainment of liberation (mokshA) & eternal union at Sri

VaikuNTham.

 

Devotion in the form of nAma sankeertanam, Bhagavad ArAdhanam, Listening to the avatAra leelAs of Sriman nArAyaNA

etc aids one to have steady rememberance of Sriman nArAyaNA. They by themselves doesn't constitute "bhakti yogA".

Rather they are some ways of expressing one's devotion & develop the "love" for nArAyaNA, thereby aiding the process of

ashtAnga yogA.

 

During bhakti yogA, the yogI will at first encounter the stage called "Para bhakti" wherein his mind, thought & all sense

organs are completly focussed on Sriman nArAyaNA. He does only worship of nArAyaNA & meditation on Him & these are

the only things that sustain him. After severe practise of the ashtAnga yogic process, the yogi passes onto the next stage

called "para jn~AnA" wherein the thirst for the direct vision of Sriman nARAyaNA becomes highly intense. Sriman

NArAyaNA being pleased with his devotion gives the mental vision of His divya mangaLa vigraha. This results into much

more intense love & the yogI is mad after communion with NArAyaNA. He cannot bear the separation even for a second &

is literally pleading with Sriman NArAyaNA constantly for the arrival of the eternal union with Him. At right time, he attains

the God-realization & enjoys the divine company of nitya soorIs & muktAs at Sri VaikuNTham in serving Sriman

NArAyaNA uninterruptedly.

 

Obviously this process is out of question in this age of kali. Likes of vashistar, vyAsar, sukar, jada bharadar, Bheeshmar,

nAthamunigaL are the capable persons for performing such contemplation with deep & unsurpassed love towards Sriman

NArAyaNA. Thus, prapatti is the only way out.

 

The second upAyA Prapatti (i.e. SaraNAgathi alias Bhara nyAsam) as nyAsa vidyA is enshrined in upanishads and can

infact be performed by anyone irrespective of age, sex, caste etc. Its modus operandi is explained in a detailed manner in

Ahirbudhnya samhitA, Lakshmi tantrA & other pramAnams.

[abhi_the_great 0]

From the above post, Bhakti-yoga looks like a natural culmination of Jnana and Ashtanga Yoga. Full of restrictions and rules, not fully divine love(atleast in the beginning). Its more of Ashtanga yoga than devotion. Sravanam - keertanam are insignificant supports - but not the means or the goal yet!!!

 

It seems that, what we claim to be bhakti-yoga is what the Sri Vaishnavas claim as prapatti. But there too, in the original article at http://www.ahobilamutt.org/prapatti.html, there is no personal method in which to perform prapatti. Its some hidden mantra, which is the key of all of this process, which even the disciple might not know in AchArya nishta prapatti.

 

There is much importance laid on the 6 rules (only 5 mentioned on the site) - anukoolasya sankalpa, pratikulasya varjanam, karpanyam, mahavishwasam, goptrtvte varanam.

 

Is the defenition we have for bhakti-yoga wrong as per shastra?

 

[This message has been edited by abhi_the_great (edited 05-20-2002).]

[abhi_the_great 0]

Originally posted by jndas:

Thus their definition of bhakti is clearly different from Gaudiya's. After Natha Muni and Isvara Muni in the Sri Vaishnava line, asthanga yoga was no longer taught.

Jahnava Nitai prabhu,

I see where the idea of mixing bhakti and ashtanga yoga creeps into the Sri Vaishnava point of view. Thankyou for the pointer.

 

My latest doubt is, where is bhakti yoga defined inside out. Which scripture has laid down the rules of bhakti yoga clearly? And are there any quotes we can provide here?

 

By getting to know this, I can be confident in asserting that what we follow is truly bhakti-yoga OR I can assert with confidence that we are not following bhakti yoga but actually prapatti.

[Guest guest]

Originally posted by abhi_the_great:

My latest doubt is, where is bhakti yoga defined inside out. Which scripture has laid down the rules of bhakti yoga clearly? And are there any quotes we can provide here?

 

Gita.

 

 

[abhi_the_great 0]

After perfecting karma & jn~Ana yogAs one will start performing "bhakti yogA" (since karma yogA by itself is integrated with

jn~Ana yogA, bhakti yogA can be started after its perfection also).

 

From Ch. 12

 

My dear Arjuna, O winner of wealth, if you cannot fix your

mind upon Me without deviation, then follow the regulated

principles of bhakti-yoga. In this way you will develop a

desire to attain to Me.

 

If you cannot practice the regulations of bhakti-yoga, then

just try to work for Me, because by working for Me you will

come to the perfect stage.

 

If, however, you are unable to work in this consciousness,

then try to act giving up all results of your work and try to be

self-situated.

 

If you cannot take to this practice, then engage yourself in

the cultivation of knowledge. Better than knowledge, however,

is meditation, and better than meditation is renunciation of

the fruits of action, for by such renunciation one can attain

peace of mind.

 

Although the site says after perfecting karma and jnana, one comes to bhakti yoga, it is clear from Krishna's instruction that, if one cannot follow pure unalloyed bhakti, then only one needs to go in for karma or jnana.