Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu is Krsna Himself

Puru Das Adhikari · June 28, 2001

From - Tue Jun 05 08:21:35 2001

Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu Is Sri Krsna Himself

Some things which the followers of the Sri Madhava sampradaya have stated against some of the evidences given by others are true and some things are false. Let's look at the facts.

Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu, after sanyasa, went to Jagannatha Puri and stayed there during His remaining years in this world. He travelled throughout India for 6 years - to South India and in the North.

Gaudiya Vaishnavas mainly lived in Gaura Mandal, Vraj Mandal and Ksetra Mandal. In Assam, Bengal, Bangladesh, Orssa, Bihar, Uttar Pradesh, everyone knows and accepts Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu. After Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu and the Gosvamis of Vrndavan left this world, Srila Narrotama Das Thakur,

Srinivas Prabhu, and Syamananda Prabhu carried on His mission preaching in Bengal, Assam, Manipur, Orrisa, etc. In all these places everyone knows who Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu is, Radha-Krsna lila, Hare Krsna maha-mantra, in every village, everywhere. In South India there are fewer who are familiar with Mahaprabhu due to language barriers.

India at that time was under the law of the Muslim regime, which was characterised with fighting with and oppression of the Hindu majority. After the Muslim regime came British rule. During this period the growth of Vaisnava religion progressed slowly. The sadhus in Bengal, Orrisa and U.P., Rajasthan, preached in their own regions, not travelling to other parts. During this period Srila Visvanatha Cakravarti Thakura and Srila Baladeva Vidyabushana were prominent amongst the devotees. At the end of the British

rule Srila Bhaktivinoda Thakura and Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Saraswati Thakura appeared in India and pure Vaisnava religion began to flourish.

Now at the present time, the whole world is becoming familiar with this pure Vaisnava culture following in the line of Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu. During the Second World War most of the ancient Indian and Vedic texts were taken by the German army for their scientific research. In many German libraries

today one can find these valuable texts, many of which are not easily accessible to the general public. The texts they are presently making available in translated form, have been edited drastically. Forty, fifty

years before in Bombay, Nirnoi Sagar Press published many edition of Sanskrit books. Currently in Gaurakpur, Kalyan Press is publishing concise, summarised editions in Hindi and Sanskrit. In Bengal all Bengali language texts are published widely.

Before Mahaprabhu many sastra-praman, are quoted in books such as Sri Caitanya Caritamrta. Mostly we should consult the Baivaishya Purana where there are many references to Mahaprabhu referring to His divinity, His lila, etc, spoken in sanskrit. I have seen there where it has said in parallel verses:

anarpita carim carat

radha pranay mahima

nadiya upavane sri krsna caitanya

There it is stated that Mahaprabhu is present in this world, not only for the 48 years which were recorded but will remain for 12,500,000 years. Santan-dharma, Harinama sankirtan, vaishnava religion, will be predominate at that time, continuously progressing during the entire period. It is

interesting to note that in this Purana, which is composed entirely in Sanskrit (Mumbai Nis, Press), the history of Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu's life and teachings are given, which confirm his position as Syama Bhagavan Sri Krsna himself.

In the edition of Caitanya Caritamrta by Srila AC Bhaktivedanta Swami Maharaj, Adi lila Chapter 3, text 49:

suvarna-varno hemango

varangas candanangadi

sannyasa-krc chamah santo

nistha-santi-parayanah

"In His early pastimes He appears as a householder with a golden complexion. His limbs are beautiful, and His body, smeared with the pulp of sandalwood, seems like molten gold. In His later pastimes He accepts the sannyasa order, and He is equipoised and peaceful. He is the highest abode of peace and devotion, for He silences the impersonalist nondevotees."

This is a verse from the Mahabharata (Dana-dharma, Visnu-sahasra-nama-stotra). In his commentary on the Visnu-sahasra-nama

called the Namatha-sudhabhidha, Srila Baladeva Vidyabhusana, commenting upon

this verse, asserts that Lord Caitanya is the Supreme Personality of Godhead according to the evidence of the Upanisads.

iti dvapara urvisa

stuvanti jagad-isvaram

nana-tantra-vidhanena

kalav api yatha srnu

"O King, in this way people in Dvapara-yuga worshiped the Lord of the universe. In Kali-yuga they also worship the Supreme Personality of Godhead by the regulations of the revealed scriptures. Kindly now hear that from me.

krsna-varnam tvisakrsnam

dangopangastra-parsadam

yajnaih sankirtana-prayair

yajanti hi sumedhasah

"In the age of Kali, intelligent persons perform congregational chanting to worship the incarnation of Godhead who constantly sings the name of Krsna. Although His complexion is not blackish, He is Krsna himself. He accompanied by His associates, servants, weapons and confidential companions."

This text is from Srimad-Bhagavatam (11.5.32). Srila Jiva Gosvami has explained this verse in his commentary on the Bhagavatam known as the Krama-sandarbha, wherein he says that Lord Krsna also appears with a golden complexion. That golden Lord Krsna is Lord Caitanya, who is worshiped by

intelligent men in this age. That is confirmed in Srimad-Bhagavatam by Gargamuni, who said that although the child Krsna was blackish, He also appears in three other colours-red, white and yellow. He exhibited His white and red complexion in the Satya and Treta ages respectively. He did not exhibit the remaining colour, yellow-gold, until He appeared as Lord Caitanya, who is known as Gaurahari.

Srila Jiva Gosvami explains that krsna-varnam means Sri Krsna Caitanya. Krnsa-varna and Krsna Caitanya are equivalent. The name Krnsa appears with both Lord Krsna and Lord Caitanya Krsna. Lord Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu is the Supreme Personality of Godhead, but He always engages in describing Krsna and thus enjoying transcendental bliss by chanting and remembering His name and form. Lord Krsna Himself appears as Lord Caitanya to preach the highest gospel.

jahnavitire navadvipe golokasye dhamni govindo

dvibhujo gourah sarvatma mahapuruso mahatma

mahayogi trigunatita sattyarupo bhakti loke kasyeti

(atharva vediya caitanyopanisad)

"On the banks of the Jahnavi, at Navadvipa which is non-different from Goloka, the omnipresent Supersoul, great personality, great soul, great mystic, beyond triple qualities, fully pure goodness, fully opulent, Sri Govinda, will appear in a two handed golden form and establish bhakti."

eko devah sarvarupi mahatma gouro raktasyamalasvetarupah

caitanyatma sa vai caitany saktir bhaktakaro bhttide bhaktivedyah

namo vedanta vedyaya krsnaya parnamatmane

souva caitanya rupaya caitanyaya namo namah

vedanta vedyam purusam puranam caitanyatmanam

taneva viditva ati mrtumeti nagah pantha visva yogi mahantam

(caitanyopanisad)

"In the transcendental realm of Goloka, the same supreme Lord takes many different forms. In the different ages He appears consequently as white in satya, as red in treta, black in dvapava and golden in kali. Sri Caitanya

Mahaprabhu, who possesses caitanya sakti appears as a devotee. He is the giver of pure divine love.

"I offer my obeisances again and again unto Sri Krsna Caitanya Mahaprabhu, who is understood by the unprecedented vedante, who is Krsna and the Supersoul."

By knowing this great person, who possesses unlimited qualities, one is able to escape death. Without his direction, one cannot attain his goal; there is no other way. There is no difference between Sir Krnsa and Sri Caitanya.

saptame goavavarna visno vityanena sva saktya caikay metya

prante prataratvativya saha svaih svamanu siksayati

asya vhekha saptum saptuma manvantare vaivasata manou

goura varno bhagavan sasaktya hladinisaktya aikyam

praptya prante ka lauyuge pratah pratams sandhyayam

avatirno bhutva saha svaih saparsadaih swavnanum

hare krsnadi janau siksayati upadisati ityavthah

(athavaveda-purusa bodhinyam)

"In the 7th vaivasvata manvantare at the beginning of the 28th kali-yuga, You will appear accepting the … hladini shakti, accompanied by your associates, instructing everyone to chant "Hare Krsna" mantra and other things.

"Gentlemen! The all merciful Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu has no comparison. The Vedas have described Him.

ito ham krta sannyaso avartarisyami saguno

nirvedo niskamo bhugivani stiva stho alakanandeyah kalau

catah sahasrabdopari pamcasahasrabhyantave gaua varno

dighangoh sarva laksnayeikla isvara pravtito

nija rasasvado bhakta rupo nisrakoh vidityogah yama

(atharvaveda 3rd kauda brahma vibhagantaram)

"Krsna answering the Deva's prayers: Between 4,000 and 5,000 years into kali-yuga, on the special request of Siva incarnate Sri Adwaita Acarya, He appears as a transcendental Brahman. I will take sannyasa. I will have a

golden complexion. Bearing many auspicious signs of a great person, I will taste my own sweetness."

visvambara visvena mahi pahi svaha

(atharva veda)

" I offer myself unto the lotus feet of Visvambara who gives pranam to the three worlds."

jyotiviva dhamaka

(kathopanishad 2/1/13)

"The form of the lord is like fire covered by smoke."

hiranyasmasvah hiramyakesah apranachat

sarva eva suvarnah

(chandogya upanishad (1/6/6))

"The lord has a golden complectioned form and hair. From His toes to His head He is golden."

atra brahmapuram nama pundarika yaducyute

tade vastadalam padma sanivam pura madbhutam

tanmadhye daharam saksat mayapuranamitiryate

tatra vesma bhagavatas caitanyesya paratmanah

tasmin yastvantavakaso hyantarduipah sa ucyate

(chandogya upanisad)

"In My heart there is an amazing petalled lotus. In My centre there is a place called "pahava" in Mayapura. Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu lives here at Antardvipa."

yada pasyah pasyate rukonakarna

katarimisam purusam brahmayonim

tada vidvan punyaspape vidhuya

niranjanah paramam samyamu paiti

(mundaka upanisad 3/1/3)

"When the living entities have audience of the Supreme Lord, then, whether they are pious or sinners, they will become friends of that Lord. The complexion of that Super Soul is golden and He is the cause of everything."

vedahametam purusa mahantaviadityavarna

tanieva vidituati amrtyumetinanya tamasah parastat pantha

vidya te ganaya

(svetasvuava Upanisad 3/9)

mahan prabhurvai purusa satvasyaisa pravartaka

sunirmalamimain praptimisano jyotirauyayah

(svetasvata Upanisad 6/12)

"That supreme lord Sri Mahaprabhu is spotless. He is the bestower of

causeless mercy for the jivas."

bhaktapriyo bhaktidata damodara ibhaspatih

indradarpaharo nanto nityananda cidatmaka

caitanya rupascaitanyas cetana gunor jitah

advaita cava nipune dvaita parama hayakah

nilah svetah sitah krsna goura pitambarachadah

sacisuta jayapradah

(Narada pancatratra/jnanamrtasar/ratra4/chapter8 balakrsna sahasva

namstotra116-117, 84,154)

Here it is clearly mentioned the different names of Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu such as bhakta priya, bhakti data, daniodara, caitanya, caitanyerupa, nityananda, advaitacaranipuna, advaita, gour krsna, sacisuta.

iti smarananantaram sri-guror ajnaya sriman-mahaprabhum sodasopacaradibhih

tan-mula-mantrenaiva pujayet. sriman-mahaprabhu-manrtoddharo yatha

urddhvamnaye sri-vyasam prati sri-narada-vakyam (3.14-16)

aho gudhatamah prasno

bhavata parikirtitah

mantram vaksyami te brahman

maha-punya-pradam subham

Then, by the order of his guru, the sadhaka shall offer puja to Sriman Mahaprabhu with the sixteen articles of worship and the six-syllable gaura-mantra. In the Urddhavamnay-samhita, there is a statement concerning this gaura-mantra, wherein Sri Vedavyasa says to Sri Narada: "Oh Brahmana,

you have asked which mantra is used in worshipping Bhagavan Sri Gauranga. This question is very profound. I shall speak of this greatly pious and auspicious mantra to you."

klim gauraya namah' iti

sarva-lokesu pujitah

maya-ramananga-bijaih

vag-bijena ca pujitah

sadaksarah kirtito 'yam

mantra-rajah sura-drumah

mantro yatha-klim gauraya namah; hrim, srim, klim, aim gauraya namah

"This gaura-mantra (gauraya namah) is worshipped using the bija-mantras of Maya, Rama, Ananga and Sarasvati. For example, just as we say klim gauraya namah, similarly we may also say hrim gauraya namah, srim gauraya namah, etc. In this way this six syllable mantra is honoured. When the people of the world combine gauraya namaha with the kama bija and chant klim gauraya namaha, they receive the gift of divine love. I have chanted to you this sadakshara-mantra-raja, which is like a kalpa-druma because it fulfils all of one's desires."

Dear Prabhu, I think here, while I am travelling here in England and Holland I don't have access to many books for reference. If you'd like I will give

all sastric quotations, referenced, stated as they are, when I return to India. In our Gaudiya Vedanta Samiti, the sastra praman, quotations, are available. When I return to Mathura I will be able to send them to you in

July when I return. Then I can give you a full answer with all quotations.

Please send me any questions you have. I am happy you remembered me. Please

accept my dandavat pranams.

Jaya Sri Radhe!

Your servant,

Tridandi Swami Bhaktivedanta Tirtha Maharaja

June 29, 2001

Unfortunately all the evidences mentioned in this letter posted by Puru das are only a fake. They were already discussed in these forums for a long and no one could proof their authenticity.

Kedharanatha Bhaktivinoda was the Gaudiya theologian from last century who made the shape of the Gaudiya's sect in the present, including Iskcon. He has written and published many books on theology, including "Sri Caitanya Upanisad." He fond a single copy of that manuscript, he has published it and the original has disappeared forever, and no one else could ever seen it.

This Caitanya Upanisad (linked to Atharva Veda, according to Bhaktivinoda ) is the main sruti proof of Sri Caitanya's divinity present by Gaudiyas even nowadays.

Even if someone may accept Kedharanatha Bhaktivinoda as a bona fide source of new srutis, surpassing the old and dark Sri Krsna Dvapayana Vyasa in the ability of to compile srutis texts, most of people would like to appreciate as an evidence srutis mantras written before Sri Caitanya avatara, not after His advent.

In the same manner, all smrti texts present in this letter are from interpolated texts in several Puranas sucha as Padma and Sakanda, and from an obscure Upa-Purana named Bhavisya-Purana, whose autethenticity is denied by most of Gaudiyas themselves.

The Tantric evidences quoted from Tantra, Agamas and Pañcaratras may be accept as bona fide, as Sri Caitanya is actually to be considered as a Tantric God and nothing else.

June 29, 2001

Some scholars state that Sri Caitanya is a typical Tantric god. Advaita Acarya invoked Him with Ganga's water, mantras and tulasi leaves following the Tantric system and dismissed Him by sending Him a letter in Puri according the rules on how to dismiss Tantric vibhutis. For certain that is not scholars' exclusive viewpoint, as anyone who has a little understanding of Tantra will attain the same conclusion on Sri Caitanya avatara.

Even Dr. Kapoor, a very learned Gaudiya-vaisnava writer has deffended this thesis in some of his books aproved by Swami Prabhupada.

In Tantra god is the combined aspect of male and female. All saktis came from the male aspect who is the potent but not the potency. The male and female counterpart are eternally in sexual activities. Devotes want to serve these sexual activities and feel the orgasm that they call prema. In Gaudiya's Tantra the worship of Radha is a sakta worship of the female aspect of the Tantric god, very common in Bengal's heritage. Krsna is worship as the male aspect of this Tantric god. This is purest Tantra. It has nothing to do with Vedanta no matter how hard they try to proof otherwise. That's why they can never quote any Vedic evidence on Radha, Caitanya and all of their thesis, and methods of worship coming from sruti texts, itihasas and sattvik-smrtis.

In this kind of Tantra one should adopt a dvaita philosophy, since one may observe dualism to worship separately the male aspect and the female aspect of the Tantric God, or even His combined aspect as Caitanya. That is why they are so averse to advaita-vada in all of its forms, that sees no dualism in Hari's aspect and this kind of result (orgasm as felt by the female aspect, krsna-prema) would be impossible to be attained.

This kind of Tantric god is not a new creation. It is actually very ancient. One may find His evidences in the temples at Khajuraho, in Vaisnava Maha-Tantra, Pañcaratras, and many Agamas.

So, they have a Tantric god, that must to be dual. But the Vedic god is non-dual. Trying

to harmonize both conceptions of God they made the philosophy of acintya-bedha-abheda-tattva. But obviously no one can find any evidence in sruti about a hybrid god like that.

Tantra literally means "to expand the mind". Tantric teachings allow a person to experience the "absolute" through excess of the flesh. Recent sex gurus have tarnished the purity of Tantra, but the ideal of a Tantric society is the one where the mind and

body were in unison with the spirit. A society in which art and science combined happily with spirituality and sexuality. A society that believe in dealing frankly and openly with all aspects of life, including sex. Sex too has a role to play in life, over or under representation of sex is eventually harmful to any society. Frank depiction of uninhibited sex speaks of a liberated society which is open minded in its views concerning sex and sexuality. Tantric Texts seems to graphically and realistically illustrated scenes of love.

All aspects of love, from seduction to copulation, enticement to separation are carefully described.

Tantra does not deny any aspect of life, because that would mean denial of God himself. It finds the divine spark in both beauty and ugliness, transcending both, desire and aversion, is its ultimate goal. Tantric cosmos is divided in to the male and female principle. Male principle has the form and potential, female has the energy.

According to Tantric philosophy, one can not achieve anything without the other, as they manifest themselves in all aspects of the universe. Nothing can exist without their co-operation and coexistence. Hence, the whole universe is based on the union of male and female, why feel ashamed of it!

The bliss and joy of a union between soul and god is so intense, it is almost impossible to describe this feeling except as an intense and prolonged orgasm. In the ultimate union, one sees love overflowing the body and soul.

According to Tantra, sexual enjoyment is complementary to the moral, material and

spiritual well-being of a person. Sex is as natural as sunshine and rain, as food and drink, as sight and scent. It is not something to be hidden in shame and then brooded on with guilt. Pleasure is as essential as food for our existence, yet it must be pursued with moderation and caution. The whole point of Tantras is to regulate and become perfect masters of sex, rather than be a slave to it. Enjoyment is an essential step to renunciation, as detachment is achieved only by going through and overcoming all attachments.

So, Sri Caitanya is the perfect Tantric God, were the male (potential ) principle and the

female (active) principle are both combined in an eternal orgasm called mahabhava. Very

interesting indeed, but then there was the Muslim and also the Christian influence during the medieval India. Part of this Tantric god was somewhat mutilated.

Nowadays the theology by Kedharanatha Bhaktivinoda and the saffron police created by Gaudiya-math has castrated this Tantric god. If one is to relish this Tantric god the only way seems to drive by the old and nasty sahajiya road.

If one is seeking after any evidence from sruti on a Tantric god he is simply wasting his time. One will never find any relationship with a Tantric god and Hari in sruti texts. Many of Gaudiya gurus are very clear in that point: Tantra is the basis of all of Gaudiyas practices, beliefs and aim. Sruti text and smrti text are only interpolations into Tantric-god's organism.

A basic understanding on Tantra may be fond in the 'Vaisnava Maha-Tantra' that is a supplement of Narada Purana. A very clear and scientific approach on all kind of Tantras,

tamasic, rajasic and sattvic.

In essence Tantra explains you that one may invoke vaibhavas, or the powers given by the saktis of the vibhuti. No one but Siva may invoke a vibhuti (saktiman), what to say the maha-vibhuti (Supreme Saktiman).

According to Tantras one may invoke all kinds of vaibhavas, or simple bhavas given by very powerful saktis such as Devi, Lalita, Radha, and so on. One may have some their attributes, aspects, feelings, etc. by Tantric methods.

But these are not the real mystic experience that one may have when he faces Hari, that cannot be invoked by Tantra (only Siva can do it, not even Brahma).

So, what kind of mystic experience is that krsna-prema? It is only the orgasm that the

saktis may have while dealing with their vibhutis. It is not the same experience described by Vedic (orthodox) seers such as

Tulsidas, Vallabhacarya, Mirabai, Surdas, San Juan de La Cruz and countless others saints.

Therefore one may easily conclude that the whole system as taught by Gaudiya-vaisnavas will lead to another aim, that is not exactly union with Hari. They consider such union as undesirable, as sayujiya-mukti, because their aim is to attain sakti and not saktiman. So, they are saktas, not real Vaisnavas.

Vaisnavas are seeking after Hari, not after Hari's saktis.

Puru Das Adhikari · June 29, 2001

The Fourth Jewel

Gaura-tattva

The Gauranga Principle

The evidence of Sruti in connection with Sriman Mahaprabhu

4. 1

mahan-prabhur vai purusam sattvasyesu pravarttakam

surnimalam imam santisano jyotiravyam

The Personality of Godhead [sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu] is brilliantly effulgence [like molten gold], and he is imperishable. He is

the Supreme Controller. He controls the mode of goodness and [through the performance of sankirtana] he bestows upon theliving beings [the] spiritual intelligence [by which they can understand devotional service]. [in his acarya-lila, as a sannyasi] Heis the source of spiritual purity and of liberation. He is therefore known as "Mahaprabhu." (Svetasvatara Upanisad 2.12)

The Sruti establishes that The Supreme Lord

will appear in a golden form as Sri Gauranga

4. 2

yada pasyam pasyate rukma-varnam kartaram isam purusam brahma-yonim

tada vidyan punya-pape vidhuya nira-janam pramam samyam upaiti

When one realizes the golden form of that Lord [sri Gauranga] who is the ultimate actor and the source of the Supreme Brahman, he attains the highest knowledge, transcends both pious and impious activities, becomes free from wordly bondageand gains entrance into the divine abode of the Lord. (Mundaka Upanisad 3.3)

The evidence of Srimad-Bhagavatam

4. 3

krsna-varnam tvisa-'krsnam sangopangastra-parsadam

yajnaim sankirtana-prayair-yajanti hi sumedhasam

In the age of Kali, Krsna appears in a golden form, [as Sri Gauranga] chanting the two syllables krsna. He descends along with

his weapons [The holy name of Krsna, Srimad-Bhagavatam, kirtana, and mahaprasada ], His limbs [His expansions and

avataras such as Nityananda, Advaita, and His divine energies (saktis) such as Gadadhara, Svarupa Damodara, andRamananda Raya ], and eternal confidential associates [like Srivasa hakura, Haridasa hakura, and other devotees]. Those whoare advanced in transcendental intelligence worship Him by performing sankirtana. (Srimad-Bhagavatam 11.5.32)

4. 4

"krsna" - ei dui varna sada ya-'ra mukhe

athava krsnake ti-ho varne nija sukhe

dehakantye haya ti-ho akrsna-varana

"akrsna" - varane kahe pita-varana

The two syllables "krsna" are always in His mouth, or He always describes Krsna with great pleasure. These are two meanings

of the words "krsna-varna." Indeed, nothing but Krsna issues from His mouth. If someone tries to describe Him as being of blackish complexion, the next adjective, "tvisakrsnam" immediately restricts him. His complexion is certainly not blackish.Indeed, His not being blackish indicates that his complexion is golden. (Caitanya Caritamrta-Adi 3.53,56)

4. 5

asan varnastrayo'hyasya grhnato'nuyugam tanum

suklo-raktas-tatha-pita idanim krsnatam gatam

This boy, Krsna, has three other colors: white, red, and yellow, as he appears in different ages. Now, in this Dvapara-yuga, he

has appeared in a transcendental blackish color. (Srimad-Bhagavatam 10.8.13)

4. 6

sukla, rakta, krsna, pita - krame cari varna

cari varna dhari' "krsna" karena yugadharma

In the four ages, (yugas) Satya, Treta, Dvapara, and Kali, Krsna accepts four different colors: white, red, black, and yellow respectively. These are the colors of the different incarnations of Krsna in different milleniums.

(Caitanya Caritamrta Madhya 20.330)

4. 7

itham nr-tiryag-rsi-deva-jhasavataraair

lokan vibhavayasi hamsi jagat-pratipan

dharmam mahapurusa pasi yuganuvrttam

channam kalau yad-abhavas tri-yugo 'tha sa tvam

[Prahlada said] O Krsna! In this way you appear in various incarnations: as a human being, an animal, a great saint, a demigod,

a fish, or a tortoise. Thus maintaining the entire creation in different planetary systems. In this way, according to the age,You protect the principles of religion. But O, Mahaprabhu! In the age of Kali, [when you come to preach the holy name of Krsna,

you do so as a devotee and therefore] You do not assert Yourself as the Supreme Personality of Godhead. Because your

Godhood is hidden in the age of Kali You therefore known as Triyuga, or the Lord who manifests his Supremacy in only three

ages. [And for this reason many sastras have also kept your appearance in Kaliyuga a secret.] (Srimad-Bhagavatam 7.9.38)

The evidence of Mahabharata

4. 8

suvarna-varna hemango varangas-candanangadi

sannyasa-krcchamam santo nistha-santi-parayanam

[The following explanation of this verse is given by Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Saraswat and is based on the commentary by

Baladeva Vidyabhusana on the Visnu-sahasra-nama-stotram found in Mahabharata. These remarks are mentioned by A.C.

Bhaktivedanta Swami in his translation of Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Saraswati hakura's anubhasya commentary on Caitanya

Caritamrta Adi 3.49 - 52)] When the Supreme Personality of Godhead Krsna appears as Sri Gauranga, in his early pastimes

His complexion is gold (suvarna-varna ), his limbs are are the color of molten white gold (hemanga), his body is extremely

beautiful (varangas), and he is decorated with sandalwood pulp (candanangadi). [These four are the symptoms of Hisgrhastha-lila.] Another meaning of the description of the Lord as having a golden hue is that Lord Caitanya's personality is as fascinating as gold is attractive. Sri Caitanya accepts the sannyasa order of life (sannyasa-krt), and shows equanimity (sama) in different ways: by describing the mysteries of devotion to Sri Krsna, and by satisfying everyone by knowledge and attachment to Krsna. (santa). He is peaceful because he renounces all topics not related to the service of Krsna. His mind is always fixed on Krsna, and thus He is fixed (nistha ) in performing the great sacrifice of the holy name of Krsna. He silences the nondevotees and impersonalists who are opposed to the service of the Lord, by promoting the cause of devotion. Thus he distributes real peace. He is therefore an

abode of the highest spiritual peace and devotion (mahabhava-parayana).(Mahabharata, Tadanadharma 149)

The evidence of the Puranas

4. 9

aham eva kvacid brahman sannyasnasramamnasritam

hari-bhaktim grahayami kalau papa-hatan-naran

[The Supreme Lord said to Sri Vyasadeva] O learned brahmanas, sometimes I accept the renounced order of life to induce

the fallen people of the age of Kali to accept devotional service to the Lord. (Caitanya Caritamrta Adi 3.81)

4. 10

aham eva dvija-srestha nityam pracchana-vigraham

bhagavad-bhakta-rupena lokan raksami sarvada

O best of the brahmanas! My disguised form is eternal. In this way, with my own form hidden from ordinary sight, I take the form of a devotee and appear among the people in general in order to establish and protect religious principles. (Adi Purana )

Puru Das Adhikari · June 29, 2001

The glories of the mercy of Sri Gauranga and Nityananda

4. 37

caitanya nityanande nahi ei' saba vicara

nama laite prema dena, bahe asrudhara

svatantra-isvara prabhu atyanta udara

ta-'re na bhajile kabhu nahaya nistara

If one only chants with some slight faith the holy names of Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu and

Nityananda, very quickly he is cleansed of all offenses. Thus, as soon as he chants the Hare Krsnamantra, he feels the ecstasy of love of Godhead. Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu, the independent Supreme Personality of Godhead is greatly magnanimous. Unless one worships Him, one can never be liberated. (Caitanya Caritamrta-Adi 8.31-32)

The unfortunate position of those who cheat themselves out of Sri Gauranga's mercy.

4. 38

caitanyavatare bahe premarta-vanya

saba jiva preme bhase, prthivi haila dhanya

ei-vanyaya ye na bhase, sei jiva - chara

koti kalpe tabe ta'ra nahika nistara

There is now a flood of the eternal nectar of love of Godhead, because of the incarnation of Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu. All living entities are floating in that flood. The entire world is now thankful to the Lord. Anyone who does not float in this inundation is most condemned. Such a person cannot be delivered for millions of lifetimes of Lord Brahma.

(Caitanya Caritamrta-Antya

3.252-253)

4. 39

avatara sara, gaura-avatara

kena na bhajili ta're

kari' nire vasa, gela na piyasa,

apana karama phere

kantakera taru, (sri) gauranga amara,

tahare bhavili vise

saurabhera ase, palasa su-kili,

nasate pasila kita

iksudanda bhavi' katha cusili,

kemane paibi mitha

hara baliya, galaya parili,

samana-kinkara-sapa

sitala baliya aguna pohali,

paili bajara-tapa

samsara bhajili, (sri) gauranga bhulili,

na sunili sadhura katha

iha-para-kala, du'kala khoyali,

khaili apana matha

Sri Gauranga Mahaprabhu is the essence of all avataras. Why didn't I worship Him? It is as if I was surrounded by water and dying of thirst but I denied myself a drink. I chewed the thorns on the tree of worldly life and took the blood that flowed through my mouth to be nectar. When I was offered the nectarine fruits of love of Godhead distributed by Sri Gauranga, however, I

turned them away, thinking them to be poison. Wishing to smell perfume I sniffed at what I

thought was the fragrant flower of material enjoyment. Alas, that flower was odorless, like the palasa flower. And when I tried to sniff its illusory aroma, a bee flew up my nose and stung me. Thinking material life to be as sweet as sugarcane, I tried to taste its nectar. Instead, as I sucked, I found it juiceless and dry. In this way, I found that all my attempts at enjoyment proved false. In

this way, all my attempts at enjoyment proved false. Admitting defeat, wasted and worn out, I await the snake of death. Declaring it to be cool and soothing, I have embraced the fire of material life, only to suffer intense miseries, as if struck by lightning. Worshiping family and material life I forgot Gauranga and didn't listen to the words of the saints. Now, in my final days I realize that I am twice dead, for not only am I casting off this mortal body, but I am dead while living, having wasted my life in material indulgence

(Mahajana-giti).

Sri Gauranga appears in the form of His holy name and as His deity

4. 40

ara dui janma ei sankirtanarambhe

haiba tomara putra ami avilambe

mora arca-murti mata, tumi se dharani

jihvarupa tumi mata, namera janani

ei dui janma mora sankirtanarambhe

dui tha-i tora putra avilambe

[sri Caitanya told Saci] Birth after birth you are my mother. Again, in this birth, I have come tobegin the sankirtana movement, and so I have become your son. My appearance in this world is twofold: I appear as the arca-murti, the deity form of the Lord, and as the holy name. In this way I appear upon the tongue in the form of sound, and as the deity made from the elements drawn from earth. In both of these forms I am worshiped, and in these two features I have appeared in

order to spread the sankirtana movement.

(Caitanya-Bhagavata Madhya 27.47)

The teachings of Sri Gauranga in a nutshell

4. 41

aradhyo bhagavan brajesa-tanayas-tad-dhama vrndavanam

ramya kacid-upasana vraja-vadhu-vargena ya kalpita

srimad-bhagavatam pramanam-amalam prema pumartho mahan

sri caitanya mahaprabhor-matam-idam tatradaro nam param

It is the conclusive opinion of Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu that: Sri Krsna, who is

Vrajendra-nandana, the son of the king of Vraja, is the Supreme Personality of Godhead Himself, the topmost worshipable Deity; Vrndavan-dhama which is an expansion of Sri Krsna and is nondifferent from Him is the highest worshipable abode; The gopis of Vrndavana are the highest example of the worship of Sri Krsna Srimad-Bhagavatam is the spotless evidence for knowing the absolute truth; Krsna-prema is the fifth and highest goal of life. These are the teachings of Sri

Caitanya in a nutshell.

(Visvanatha Cakravarti Thakura)

Thus ends the fourth jewel of the Gaudiya Kanthahara entitled Gaura-tattva

GAUDIYA KANTHAHARA page

Gaura-tattva: the Gauranga principle page

**********************

Anyone so foolish to not accept the words of Srila Visvanatha Cakravarti Thakura deserves to live with his own mind,instead.

pda

BDas · June 29, 2001

Holy Smokes Puru,

What suddenly happened to Satyaraj. This new Satyaraj makes me appreciate the old Satyaraj much better. He flip flops quite a bit so perhaps we can expect the old Satyaraj back at any time. We should pray for his recovery.

And this should be a lession to us that we should always appreciate those who are trying to love and serve Mahaprabhu dispite their faults and demeanor.

And Puru nice essay and info thanks, Brahma

Jahnava Nitai Das · June 29, 2001

...an obscure Upa-Purana named Bhavisya-Purana.

Bhavishya Purana is not an Upapurana. It is one of the 18 maha-puranas. Please refer Vishnu Purana 3.6.20-23. Neither is it obscure. The sanskrit text is readily available to anyone who has interest in it. Perhaps it is obscure in the sense that there is no English translation of the text, but that is quite irrelevant regarding the authenticity of the text itself.

Jahnava Nitai Das · June 29, 2001

...an obscure Upa-Purana named Bhavisya-Purana.

Bhavishya Purana is not an Upapurana. It is one of the 18 maha-puranas. Please refer Vishnu Purana 3.6.20-23. Neither is it obscure. The sanskrit text is readily available to anyone who has interest in it. Perhaps it is obscure in the sense that there is no English translation of the text, but that is quite irrelevant regarding the authenticity of the text itself.

Puru Das Adhikari · June 30, 2001

"....A diseased person cannot cure himself. He must be under the care of a physician. Just as the anger of a diseased person is

pardonable, the improper behavior of the ignorant should also be excused. This attitude is known as mercy. The ignorant

have many misconceptions, such as faith in karma-kanda, occasional inclination toward jnana, worshiping the Deity with ulterior motives, faith in yoga, indifference toward the association of pure Vaisnavas, attachment to varnasrama, and many other things. By association, mercy and good instructions, these misconceptions can be dispelled and the

kanistha-adhikari can quickly become a madhyama-adhikari suddha-bhakta."

Srila Bhaktivinoda Thakura

Jaive Dharma

***************

No one who becomes a guru tyagi can heal himself from his anarthas, only dive deeper into the ocean of birth and death. Also Srila Rupa Gosvami clearly explains in his Bhakti-rasamrta-sindhu:

sruti-smrti-puranadi-

pancaratra-vidhim vina

aikantiki harer bhaktir

utpatayaiva kalpate

"Devotional service of the Lord that ignores the authorized Vedic literatures like the Upanishads, Puranas and Narada Pancaratra is

simply an unnecessary disturbance in society."

(Bhakti-rasamrta-sindhu 1.2.101).

Philosophical discussions with those who reject our acaryas, the puranas and the Srimad Bhagavatam are a waste of time and in fact ill advised.

Puru Das Adhikari · June 30, 2001

"The fourth characteristic of the madhyama is neglect of those who are inimical. It is necessary to define here what is meant by

the inimical, and to describe their different types. Dvesa, enmity is a particular attitude which is also known as matsarata, envy.

That attitude which is exactly the opposite of love is known as dvesa. The supreme Lord is the only object of love. The attitude a person bears toward the Lord which is in direct opposition to love is known as dvesa.

This divesa is of five different

types: absence of faith in God; the belief that God is nothing more than a natural potency which brings about the results of all

action; the belief that God has no particular form; the belief that the jivas are not eternally subordinate to the Lord; and the

absence of mercy.

"Individuals whose hearts are contaminated by these inimical attitudes are absolutely bereft of suddha-bhakti Haridas Babaji said. They are destitute of even prakrta-bhakti, the rudimentary devotion represented by the

neophyte devotee's worship of the Deity, which is the doorway to suddha bhakti. The five types of enmity just described are found to co exist with attachment of material sense enjoyment

....How should a suddha-bhakta behave

toward such inimical people? The should avoid them.

"....Spiritual association means to meet together for the purpose of spiritual advancement, to discuss topics of

eternal truth, and to render reciprocal service and welfare which awakens one s devotional sentiments. To avoid

the association of people with whom such types of exchanges are not possible is called upeksa.

"When an inimical person who has adopted divergent opinions hears glorification of suddha bhakti, or virtuous instructions regarding bhakti, he will immediately retort with some futile argument, beneficial neither for you nor for him. One should avoid such fruitless arguments and interact with such people only so far as routine social

dealings are concerned. If you say it would be best to include inimical people among the ignorant and bestow mercy upon them, then far from helping them, you will only harm yourself. Benevolence should be applied but it should be done with caution.

"Madhyama-adhikari suddha-bhaktas should certainly carry out these four types of behavior. Any negligence on their part in

this regard makes them guilty of improper behavior and failure to do that for which they are qualified. This is considered as a

serious defect."

Srila Bhaktivinoda Thakura

Chapter Eight, Vaishnava Behavior

Jaiva Dharma

*****************

Therefore I will post positive coments from shastra and our acaryas but will not dialogue with Satyaraj Prabhu directly, because his attitude has devolved into one of enmity toward his own guru varga and warrants upeksa.

[This message has been edited by Puru Das Adhikari (edited 06-29-2001).]

June 30, 2001

Originally posted by Puru Das Adhikari:

Therefore I will post positive coments from our acaryas but will not dialogue with Satyaraj Prabhu directly, because his attitude has devolved into one of enmity twoard his own guru varga and warrants upeksa.

Wonder what Tantric book he read that started his new trip on?

Remind me to avoid it like the plague.

June 30, 2001

Puru has posted a enormous list of sastric 'evidences' on Caitanya avatara. He has wasted his time. They are all fakes from different srmits and Tantras, mainly after Caitanya's advent . Not evidences from sruti collected before Caitanya's advent.

Jagatji, who is thousands of times more learned than Puru, while solicited to give some sastric evidences from sruti texts and before Caitanya's advent, has said that he would post several meters of evidences like that of Puru's, but not even a single one really powerful and under the usual criteria for establishment of an avatara.

We do not discard that many sastras before Caitanya's advent may have descriptions of Kali-yuga

and also may mention a yuga avatara. In every Kali-yuga there is an avatar, and we may accept this fact, but one should also consider the follow argument: "Of the 4 Vaisnava-sampradayas of Kali-yuga, none of them had accepted that Sri Caitanya was the Yuga-avatara. Not even Madhva-sampradaya accept this fact, what to say the other sampradayas. This fact is only mentioned by Gaudiyas and by no one else. So, they have to prove it with sound sastric evidences (collected before His advent and easily available nowadays) and irrefutable logic arguments. They cannot simply state that those who don't accept Sri Caitanya as an avatara are only atheists and deluded incredulous."

Therefore it is a duty of the Gaudiya-vainavas to find out their sastric evidences on Sri Caitanya avatara with

solid and irrefutable quotes following a standard acceptable by most of the sanatana-dharma darsanas including all other Vaisnava-sampradayas, to fulfil the most basic premise of their preachings.

June 30, 2001

Bhavishya Purana is not an Upapurana. It is one of the 18 maha-puranas. Please refer Vishnu Purana 3.6.20-23. Neither is it obscure.

Supposedly Gaudiyas follow the Bhagavata Purana, not Visnu Purana. In Bhagavata's 12th Canto (published by BBT) there is a list of the 18 maha-puranas, and this Bhavishya Purana is not included.

Jndas has mentioned Visnu Purana 3.6.20-23 as a reference. But he did not mention the edition and published by whom. The most popular publication of Visnu Purana is the one translated by H. H. Wilson, circa 1840. Sir Wilson states that he got at least 14 different manuscripts on that Purana whose authenticity were very dubious and the content very different, so he has decided to make a 'balanced' translation of that Purana. Is that source absolutely bona fine?

There are other lists of Puranas in Narada Purana and Vahara Purana published by UNESCO, where in some of these lists this Bhavisya Purana appears as an Upa -Purana.

Anyway, the authenticity of Bhavisya Purana is discussed by Gaudiya themselves, as many of Gaudiyas' paribharas do not accept it as a bona fide evidence of anything.

June 30, 2001

Therefore I will post positive coments from our acaryas but will not dialogue with Satyaraj Prabhu directly, because his attitude has devolved into one of enmity twoard his own guru varga and warrants upeksa.(Puru)

At first I should confess that I had abandoned a guru who is always slandering great Vaisnavas. Thereafter I could notice that his 'guru-varga' was also a fake, as he was always trying to proof their link with Madhva-sampradaya. If the link were to be considered so important and absolute bona fide, why to spend a lot of time and to write a lot of arguments repeatedly trying to proof it?

For certain I known very well all the arguments that are employed to 'proof' this link, but anyone who may has a healthy mental condition, should also verify another sources of evidences, such as the arguments of the Madhva-sampradaya itself. Their arguments for that link between Gaudiyas and Madhva-sampradaya are as follows;

"In the Upanishads, the sacred Vedanta texts of yore, one finds in more than one place the well known metaphor of a blind person leading other blind people astray, to illustrate what happens when an incompetent, styling himself a learned man, attempts to teach others what he knows not himself. This metaphor is very apt to describe Prabhupada's translation and purport for the Bhagavad Gita. For while he claims that his translation and purports follow a "disciplic succession" (see bottom of Prabhupada's Introduction) of traditional commentaries and understanding of the work deriving from the dualistic school of Vedanta of Madhva (number 5 on Prabhupada's claimed list of succession), they in fact show a great divergence and opposition to the traditional understanding found in the latter's works.

"In fact, given the evidence, it is far more correct to say that Prabhupada's interpretations derive from Shankara's than from Madhva's. For instance, in explaining XI-47, Shankara clearly says `tvadanyena tvattaH anyena kenachit.h na dR^ishhTapUrvam.h' -- none other than you had ever seen this (Universal Form of Krishna) before.

"Prabhupada follows suit by saying, in translation: "The Supreme Personality of Godhead said: My dear Arjuna, happily have I shown you, by My internal potency, this supreme universal form within the material world. No one before you has ever seen this primal form, unlimited and full of glaring effulgence."

"Here's what Madhva says in explaining XI-47 in the gItA-tAtparya: there he anticipates the mistaken exposition, and explains the correct interpretation of `tvad.h anyena na dR^ishhTapUrvam.h' --

mayA prasannena tavA.arjunedaM |

rUpaM paraM darshitamAtmayogAt.h |

tejomayaM vishvamanantamAdyam.h |

yanme tvadanyena na dR^ishhTapUrvam.h || 47 ||

tAtparya --

`vishvanAmA sa bhagavAn.h yataH pUrNaguNaH' iti pAdme |

`tvadanyena na dR^ishhTapUrvaM' ityanena tenaivendrasharIreNa

dR^ishhTamiti j~nAyate | tvadanyeneti tvadavarApexayA |

tairapi tadvanna dR^ishhTamityeva |

`vishvarUpaM prathamato brahmA.apashyachchaturmukhaH |

tachchhatAMshena rudrastu tachchhatAMshena vAsavaH |

yathendreNa purA dR^ishhTumapashyat.h so.arjuno.api san.h |

tadanye kramayogena tachchhatAMshAdidarshanaH ||'

-- iti brahmANDe || 47 ||

"He, the Lord, is called Vishva, for being of complete attributes,"

says the Padma. By `tvadanyena na dR^ishhTapUrvaM' is

indicated the fact that you (Arjuna) alone, in the body of Indra,

had seen it before. By `tvadanyena', people lower than you are

indicated. That they did not see as you saw, thus only.

"The vishva-rUpa was first seen by the Chaturmukha-Brahma;

a hundredth of that by Rudra, and a hundredth of that by the

deities; as had been seen by Indra previously, so too was seen by

Arjuna; other than he, according to worth, was seen a hundredth,

and so forth," says the Brahmanda.

"Therefore, Madhva's reading of `tvadanyena na dR^ishhTapUrvaM' is to say, "they, the people less than you in worth, did not see as you did." This is stated by Sri Raghavendra as:

tvadanyena na dR^ishhTapUrvamityasya tvatto.adhamairadR^ishhTa-

pUrvamityarthaH | tairapi svayogyatAnurodhena dR^ishhTatve.api

arjunavanna dR^ishhTamityadR^ishhTatvoktiH | tathA tvayA tu

indrasharIreNa dR^ishhTapUrvamityapi tvadanyeneti visheshhaNAllabhyate |

" By saying `tvadanyena na dR^ishhTapUrvaM', that it had never been seen by people lower than you in worth, thus is the meaning. While even such people had seen according to their worth, they had not seen as Arjuna did (i.e., did not have the same grasp), so [by his standard], non-sight is stated. Also, by you (Arjuna), this had been seen previously through the body of Indra -- for that reason, too, "none other than you," such a qualification applies.

"Therefore, Madhva says, as clarified by his commentator, that "none other than you had seen this" means "none who were less than you ever saw as you did," and also that "it was none other than you, who saw this previously [as Indra]."

"While followers of Prabhupada may have any number of objections against this interpretation, it is important to remember that our purpose here is only to establish an irreconcilable difference in this matter between Madhva and Prabhupada, and that is achieved. Egregious as Prabhupada's error in this instance is, it is not the only one; his explanation of the Bhâgavata's `kR^ishhNastu bhagavAn.h svayam.h' is radically opposed to what Madhva has said in his commentary on Bhagavad Gita X-41 and elsewhere. It is clear that Prabhupada lied through his teeth in claiming that his purports followed a "disciplic succession" as claimed.

"In addition, Prabhupada's lack of understanding of even the most basic facts of science and astronomy is manifest, so much so that one wonders if he ever passed high school. Consider for instance what he says under X-21: "There are fifty varieties of winds blowing in space," and later, "It appears from this verse that the moon is one of the stars; therefore the stars that twinkle in the sky also reflect the light of the sun. The theory that there are many suns within the universe is not accepted by Vedic literature. The sun is one, and as by the reflection of the sun the moon illuminates, so also do the stars. Since Bhagavad-gita indicates herein that the moon is one of the stars, the twinkling stars are not suns but are similar to the moon." Incidentally, Madhva reads the verse to say that the moon is not like the stars, so Prabhupada's grand delusion that he is in accordance with a "disciplic succession" of understanding "Vedic literature" cannot be taken seriously.

"In all, a very poor work, which is to be read and understood only for what it most certainly is not -- a qualified, balanced representation of the meaning of the Bhagavad Gita. It is indeed a travesty that it is often taken seriously by those believing it to have the sanction of Madhva. "

(from Dvaita-vada site)

June 30, 2001

Tantra & Caitanya

There are three chapters given on 'The Meanings of Love' in the research publication : 'The Sacred and Profane Dimensions of Love in Indian Traditions As Exemplified in the Gita Govinda of Jayadeva' by Lee Siegel.Chapters -

1. Caitanya

2. Tantra

3. Sahajiyaa

The chapter on Lord Caitanya is very devotional. Here are some excerpts from the second chapter- Tantra:

A passage in the 'Tantras' instructs the initiate to indulge in forbidden, sexual, incestuous, blasphemous activity in order to secure liberation:

Quote: 'mAtRyonau lingaM kSiptvA bhaginI stana mardanam kRtvA

guror mUrdhni pAdaM dattvA punarjanma na vidyate.'

"...inserting his organ into the mother's womb, pressing his sister's breasts, placing his foot upon his 'Guru's' head, he will be reborn no more."

Perhaps this means simply that he who is liberated is beyond all morality, all good and evil, beyond even 'Dharma'; but the verse is also taken by commentators to be written in a code language, the 'twilight language' or 'intentional language', 'sandhyA-bhASa:

In Hindu tantric practice, the 'organ' is the contemplating mind, the 'mother's womb' is the 'mUlAdhAra' or the base centre of the Yoga body, the 'sister's breasts' are the heart and the throat centre (anAhata and AjJA) respectively, and the 'guru's head' is the brain centre (i.e. the thousand-petalled lotus 'sahasrAra-cakra', also called 'zUnya-cakra'), and the implied instruction is thus translatable: he practices mental penetration through the successive centres, and reaches the uppermost centre, he will not be reborn, as he has there by attained 'nirvikalpa samAdhi'.

Songs, 'carya padas', bearing lose formal resemblance to the 'Gita Govinda', were written by Tantric Buddhist

'siddhAcAryas' from the eighth century on in Bengal in this secret language and one such verse is attributed to

Jayadeva. This is NOT to suggest that the Gitagovinda is written in 'sandhyA bhASa', but Jayadeva was most

likely well aware of Tantric doctrine, practice and language, a language which has an allegorical quality, a kind of transperency, a polydimensional, multi-referential, vitality.

This kind of ambiguity between the sexual and the ascetic is typical of the 'Gitagovinda'.

The basic structure of of the 'Gitagovinda'- the union, separation and reunion of male and female - lends itself to Tantric interpretation, for the Tantrism absolute reality is conceived as a unity which in the process of phenomenalization becomes separated into two, the male and the female. the goal is liberation from phenomenal existence by uniting the male and female, both within and without, both physiologically (the union of the 'kuNDalinI' and the brain)and cosmically (the union of 'Sakti and Shiva).

Radha goes to Krishna for union with Him, just as the 'kuNDalinI goes to the thousand-petalled lotus in the brain; Radha is active, as is the Sakti in Hindu Tantrism. Pandit Sadashiv Rath Sharma of the Jagannath temple in Puri explained to me that the 'Gitagovinda' is understood by the 'Yogins' of Orissa to be a Tantric text:

Radha is the realization of the fourth 'cakra' which is shaped like pillar and situated in the heart. When the 'Yogi' realizes the lig ht in this centre he realizes the great pleasure of Supreme Cheerfulness. Radha is the manifestation of light. Radha is the 'sudarzana cakra'. The 'Gitagovinda' describes the 'maithuna' of Tantra. 'Maithuna' is not just the union between man and woman; when 'kuNDalinI' unites with the centre of selfrealization that is 'maithuna. And the 'UddiSa Tantra' says that when the tip of the tongue touches the tonsil that is also 'maithuna'.

Pandit Rath Sharma had explained also that the 'Gitagovinda' is a great devotional work, 'pure bhakti'; I asked him how Tantrism and 'bhakti' could be reconciled (as the two systems seem to me fundamentally so different);the question did not make a great deal of sense to him(as the two systems seemed to him fundamentally so similar):

In 'bhakti' everything is 'zuddha-prema' purelove. Without 'zuddha-prema' there is nothing. No relatioship with God.

There are two types: 'zArIrika-prema (carnal love) and 'Atmika-prem' (spiritual love).'zAririka-prema can lead to supreme realization when the devotee contemplates the 'maithuna' of Radha and Krishna. When the 'yogi'

meditates this combination in his mind it is the 'maithuna' of superhuman thought. It is the 'maithuna of Tantra'.That is also 'rasa' Such 'rasa' is in the 'Gitagovinda'. Jayadeva related to Krishna as Radha to Krishna. Jayadeva Goswamin was a great 'yogi' and he was full of devotion to Lord Jagannatha.

Historically the reconciliation and coalescence of Krishna bhakti and Tantrism seems to have occured in the Sahajiya-cult.

amanpeter · June 30, 2001

We do not discard that many sastras before Caitanya's advent may have descriptions of

Kali-yuga

and also may mention a yuga avatara. In every Kali-yuga there is an avatar, and we may

accept this fact, but one should also consider the follow argument: "Of the 4

Vaisnava-sampradayas of Kali-yuga, none of them had accepted that Sri Caitanya was the

Yuga-avatara. Not even Madhva-sampradaya accept this fact, what to say the other

sampradayas. This fact is only mentioned by Gaudiyas and by no one else. So, they have to

prove it with sound sastric evidences (collected before His advent and easily available

nowadays) and irrefutable logic arguments. They cannot simply state that those who don't

accept Sri Caitanya as an avatara are only atheists and deluded incredulous."

The Jews STILL don't accept Jesus Christ--so what? The proof is in TASTING the pudding. The trick is, we can only taste fully by feeding EACH OTHER and considering ALL others before ourselves. Then our own lives become the LIVING proof. JAI GAURANGA! JAI RADHE!

[This message has been edited by amanpeter (edited 06-30-2001).]

Puru Das Adhikari · June 30, 2001

4. 14

bhagavata-bharata-sastra agama purana

caitanya krsna-avatara prakata pramana

pratyakse dekhaha nana prakata prabhava

alaukika karma, alaukika anubhava

dekhiya na dekhe yata abhaktera gana

uluke na dekhe yena suryera kirana

"Srimad-Bhagavatam, Mahabharata, the Puranas, and other Vedic literatures all give evidence to prove that Sri Caitanya is the avatara or descent of Krsna Himself. One can also directly see Sri Caitanya's manifest influence in His uncommon deeds and uncommon Krsna conscious realization. But faithless unbelievers do not see what is clearly evident, just as owls do not see the

rays of the sun.

(Caitanya Caritamrta-Adi 3.83 - 85)

Who are the self realized acaryas, and who are owls can be left unstated, but still understood. If there is a choice of taking shelter of and listening to the analysis of Srila Bhaktivinoda Thakura or university professors we know which choice makes spiritual sense and which does not. In Bg. Krsna clearly states that He is only understood by the non envious and by those who render pure devotional service,otherwise not. The absolute truth,His name fame form and pastimes cannot be either approached or comprehended through the materially conditioned senses, including the mind and intellect, let alone so called scholars. Reconciliations of transcendental topics by conditioned souls has little value except to promote further confusions concerning the nature of the absolute truth. Whose critiques of shastra explanantions concerning Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu will actually deliver us from the cycle of birth and death? Those of Srila Bhaktivinoda Thakura or university professors?

Sri Sri Guru Gaurangau Jayatah!

A new section has been added to our website:

www.gaudiya.net/sahajiya

To counter the rising wave of sahajiyaism, we have compiled several essays, which address and defeat the prominent misconceptions presented by various prakrta-sahajiya groups and other diverted lineages around the pure Gaudiya-sampradaya. Some of them are written by Srila Bhaktivedanta Narayana Maharaja,

some by Srila Bhaktiprajnana Kesava Maharaja, one by Thakur Bhaktivinode, and some by ourselves. Let the pure Gaudiya lineage be understood in favor of apasiddhantic confusion.

[This message has been edited by Puru Das Adhikari (edited 06-30-2001).]

Jahnava Nitai Das · June 30, 2001

Satyaraja,

I strongly suggest you spend more time studying and less time speaking. You spend too much time jumping through books like a grasshopper, a little here and a little there. As a result your 'understanding' is really a confused mess. I only choose to reply to certain of your posts because you will mislead innocent people with your false statements. Whether your statements are intentionally false, or you are just in a confused state, only you know. I would suggest you find a sat-guru to clear your confusion. Without a spiritual master your grasshopper reading of Vedic literatures will just increase your confusion.

That aside, I had said:

Bhavishya Purana is not an Upapurana. It is one of the 18 maha-puranas. Please refer Vishnu Purana 3.6.20-23. Neither is it obscure.

And Satyaraja replied:

Supposedly Gaudiyas follow the Bhagavata Purana, not Visnu Purana. In Bhagavata's 12th Canto (published by BBT) there is a list of the 18 maha-puranas, and this Bhavishya Purana is not included.

All lists of the Puranas state Bhavishya Purana to be a maha-purana, including that found in the Srimad Bhagavatam. Rather than accepting you are wrong and you don't know the subject, you create a non-existant evidence. This is a very low tactic. Humilty would have been a much better choice of action. Perhaps this is part of the problem with you and your guru. You are unable to accept there is a flaw in your own understanding; and instead you consider the guru to be flawed. That is certainly your personal problem, but do not intentionally mislead people here.

Regarding the Bhagavatams list of Puranas which you claim does not include the Bhavishya Purana, I offer you the following text from the listing of the 18 Puranas (12th khanda, Chapter 13, verse 6):

catur-dasha bhavishyam syat

tatha panca-shatani ca

Thus we see within the Bhagavatam that the Bhavishya Purana is mentioned as one of the 18 maha-puranas containing 14,500 verses. Your statement that the Bhagavatam does not include Bhavishya as one of the 18 maha-puranas is absolutely false and intentionally misleading. Your claim that Bhavishya Purana is an upa-purana is also false. You like to pretend you know many topics, but you just talk in circles without any understanding of what you are saying. 90% of what you post, both when you accepted the Gaudiya view, and when you rejected it was nothing but other people's articles copied and pasted while passing it off as your own material. I can show you where you got each and every of your messages you posted, whom you copied them from, and which websites you took them from. This is certainly not the activity of a scholar. It is actually unethical.

From now on, if anyone is going to copy and paste material from other websites, they must admit to this in the beginning of the message. They must give credit to the author and the website where it was taken from. In the event you are copying word for word from a book, you should mention which book you are quoting from and who the author is.

Also, the same message may not be posted repeatedly to multiple threads. If you do this I will delete the message on all the threads. The same message may not be reposted from time to time for no valid reason. Anyone who violates these rules will be removed.

It is fine to post articles by other people, but the author must be given credit for the material.

Again, in regards to Bhavishya Purana being a maha-purana, please refer to Bhagavata Purana 12.13.6 and Vishnu Purana 3.6.20-23. Every edition of these two Puranas will contain the same list, so it does not matter which recession of the Purana you check.

[This message has been edited by jndas (edited 06-30-2001).]

Puru Das Adhikari · June 30, 2001

. . . This fact is only mentioned by Gaudiyas and by no one else. So, they have to prove it with sound sastric evidences (collected before His advent and easily available nowadays) and irrefutable logic arguments. They cannot simply state that those who don't accept Sri Caitanya as an avatara are only atheists and deluded incredulous."

We most certainly can, because it has been so stated by Srila Krsnadas Kaviraj Gosvami. Also in the purport to Adi lila 5.14 from his translation of the Cc. my gurudeva, His Divine Grace A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada has written:

". . . Everything, in fact, is inconceivable, for the truth is revealed only to the proper persons. Although there are varieties of personalities, from Brahma down to the insignificant ant, all of whom are living beings, their development of knowledge is different. Therefore we have to gather knowledge from the right source. Indeed, in reality we can get knowledge only from the Vedic sources. The four Vedas, with their supplementary Puranas, the Mahabharata, the Ramayana and their corollaries, which are known as smrtis, are all authorized sources of knowledge. If we are at all to gather knowledge, we must gather it from these sources without hesitation.

Revealed knowledge may in the beginning be unbelievable because of our paradoxical desire to verify everything with our tiny brains, but the speculative means of attaining knowledge is always imperfect. The perfect knowledge propounded in the revealed scriptures is confirmed by the great acaryas, who have left ample commentations upon them; none of these acaryas has disbelieved in the sastras. One who disbelieves in the sastras is an atheist, and we should not consult an atheist, however great he may be. A staunch believer in the sastras, with all their diversities, is the right person from whom to gather real knowledge. Such knowledge may seem inconceivable in the beginning, but when put forward by the proper authority its meaning is revealed, and then one no longer has any doubts about it."

HDGACBSDP

Cc. Adi lila 5.14 purport

We are not bound by the calculations and laukika sraddha of a disobedient disciple who thinks he has the realization that he is correct and his guru was wrong. What was his guru guilty of? Trying to protect him (satyaraj) from prematurely broaching the delicate and advanced subject matter of Radha and Krsna's conjugal lila as outlined by some of the Gosvamis in books like Govinda lilamrta. etc.; His gurudeva also cautioned him that the author and disciple who translated these books are not in line with our guru varga, but come from the sahajiya camp,and if we touch the material they are presenting we should do so with great caution.

Satyaraj says:

Therefore it is a duty of the Gaudiya-vainavas to find out their sastric evidences on Sri Caitanya avatara with

solid and irrefutable quotes following a standard acceptable by most of the sanatana-dharma darsanas including all other Vaisnava-sampradayas, to fulfil the most basic premise of their preachings.

dasanudas · June 30, 2001

What our Gaudiya Acharyas have done has been to synthesize all the conclusions of the revealed Truth. To extract the essence which is really quite simple, just surrender to God, Love God and serve God and those connected to Him. It's not complicated. It's been a refining process, from the endless volumes of shastra right down to 8 simple prayers of Siksastakam, that is a joyous process of practical experience, that when followed sincerely gives a more than fullfilling and satisfactorary result. It's not a mental gymnasium.

Is it nessacary to take chanting the Holy Names of the Lord back into the broadlands of confusion and argument when these Acharyas have sacrificed their lives to mercifully make this divine gift available to one and all in an approachable form.

If we spend so much time discecting and analyzing every single point, turning every detail into a bone of contention, it will steal our time and energy in extending this grace to the environment where it is truly needed.

Puru Das Adhikari · June 30, 2001

It also seems to me that our time is better spent in trying to appreciate our acarya's transcendental perspective than offering our own conclusions. The intelligence of our acaryas is supramundane intelligence and not contaminated by the three modes of material nature like ours is. We can read in the purport to the 37th verse of Sri Brahma Samhita:

" There are some who, being unable to understand the drift of his(his refers to Srila Jiva Gosvami) statements, give meanings of their own invention and indulge in useless controversies. Sri Rupa and Sanatana say that there is no real and essential distinction between the lilas visible and nonvisible, the only distinction lies in this that one is manifest in the mundane sphere whereas the other is not so.

In the supermundane manifestation there is absolute purity in the seer and the seen. A particularly fortunate person when he is favored by Krsna, can shake off worldly shackles and connections, enter the transcendental region after attaining the realized taste of the varieties of rasa that is available during the period of novitiate.

Only such a person can have a view and taste of the perfect and absolutely pure lila of Goloka. Such receptive natures are rarely to be found. He, who exists in the mundane sphere, can also realize the taste of cid-rasa by the grace of Krsna by being enabled to attain the realized state of service. Such a person can have a view of the pastimes of Goloka manifested in the mundane lila of Gokula.

There is certainly a difference between these two classes of eligible seekers of the truth. Until one attains the perfectly transcendental stage he must be hampered by his lingering limitations, in his vision of the pastimes of Goloka. Again, the vision of the transcendental reality varies according to the degree of self-realization. The vision of Goloka must also vary accordingly.

It is only those fettered souls who are excessively addicted to worldliness that are devoid of the devotional eye. Of them some are enmeshed by the variegatedness of the deluding energy while others aspire after self-annihilation under the influence of centrifugal knowledge. Though they might have a view of the mundanely manifested pastimes of the Supreme Lord, they can have only a material conception of those visible pastimes, this conception being devoid of transcendental reality.

Hence the realization of Goloka appears in proportion to eligibility due to the degree of one's self-realization.

The underlying principle is this, that, though Gokula is as holy and free from dross as Goloka, still it is manifested on the mundane plane by the influence of the cit potency. Yogamaya. In visible and nonvisible matters of transcendental regions there is no impurity. contamination and imperfection inherent in the world of limitation; only there is some difference in the matter of realization in proportion to the self-realization of the seekers after the Absolute. Impurity. unwholesomeness, foreign elements, illusion, nescience, unholiness, utter inadequacy. insignificance, grossness--these appertain to the eye, intellect, mind and ego stultified by the material nature of conditioned souls; they have nothing to do with the essential nature of transcendence.

The more one is free from these blots the more is one capable of realizing the unqualified Absolute. The truth who has been revealed by the scriptures, is free from dross. But the realizations of the seekers of the knowledge of these realities, are with or without flaw in accordance with the degree of their individual realization.

. . . Whenever any dispute arises regarding the pure cognitive pastimes, such as

Goloka, etc., we would do well to remember the precious advice from the holy lips of

Sriman Mahaprabhu and His associates, the Gosvamis, viz., that the Truth Absolute is

ever characterized by spiritual variegatedness that transcends the variegatedness of mundane phenomena; but He is never featureless. The divine rasa is lovely with the variegatedness of the fourfold distinction of vibhava, anubhava, sattvika and vyabhicari and the rasa is ever present in Goloka and Vaikuntha. The rasa of Goloka manifests as vraja-rasa on the mundane plane for the benefit of the devotees by the power of Yogamaya. Whatever is observable in gokula-rasa should be visible in goloka-rasa, in a clearly explicit form. Hence the distinction of paramourship and concubinage, the variegatedness of the respective rasas of all different persons, the soil, water, river, hill, portico, bower, cows, etc., all the features of Gokula exist in Goloka, disposed in an appropriate manner. There is only this peculiarity that the mundane conceptions of human beings possessed of material judgment, regarding those transcendental entities, do not exist there.

The conception of Goloka manifests itself differently in proportion to the degree of

realization of the various pastimes of Vraja and it is very difficult to lay down any

definite criterion as to which portions are mundane and which are uncontaminated. The

more the eye of devotion is tinged with the salve of love, the more will the

transcendental concept gradually manifest itself.

So there is no need of further hypothetical speculation which does not improve one's

spiritual appreciation, as the substantive knowledge of Goloka is an inconceivable entity. To try to pursue the inconceivable by the conceptual process is like pounding the empty husk of grain, which is sure to have a fruitless ending. It is, therefore, one's bounden duty. by refraining from the endeavor to know, to try to gain the experience of the

transcendental by the practice of pure devotion.

Any course, the adoption of which tends to produce the impression of featurelessness,

must be shunned by all means. Unalloyed parakiya-rasa free from all mundane

conception is a most rare attainment. It is this which has been described in the narrative of the pastimes of Gokula. Those devotees, who follow the dictate of their pure spontaneous love, should base their devotional endeavors on that narrative. They will attain to the more wholesome fundamental principle on reaching the stage of realization. The devotional activities characterized by illicit amour, as practiced by worldly-minded conditioned souls, are forbidden mundane impiety. The heart of our apostle Sripada Jiva Gosvami was very much moved by such practices and induced him to give us his conclusive statements on the subject.

It is the duty of a pure Vaisnava to accept the real spirit of his statements. It is a great offense to disrespect the acarya and to seek to establish a different doctrine in

opposition to him."

Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Thakura Prabhupada

Sri Brahma-samhita purport verse 37

He has also written in the forward:

"The materialistic demeanor cannot possibly stretch to the transcendental autocrat who

is ever inviting the fallen conditioned souls to associate with Him through devotion or

eternal serving mood. The phenomenal attractions are often found to tempt sentient

beings to enjoy the variegated position which is opposed to undifferenced monism.

People are so much apt to indulge in transitory speculations even when they are to

educate themselves on a situation beyond their empiric area or experiencing jurisdiction. The esoteric aspect often knocks them to trace out immanence in their outward inspection of transitory and transformable things. This impulse moves them to fix the position of the immanent to an indeterminate impersonal entity, no clue of which could be discerned by moving earth and heaven through their organic senses."

SBSST

*****************

Appreciation of the pastimes of Sri Chaitanya Mahaprabhu and the importance of His divine appearance is the gift of our guru parampara. Our acaryas have explained that it is only through the munificence of pastimes of Sri Mayapura Nabadwipa dhama and the life of Sri Chaitanya Mahaprabhu there, throughout S. India and at the banks of the Godavari and from the gambhira in Nilacala, that we can learn to appreciate the madhurya (sweetness) of goloka. Only by the mercy of Sri Chaitanya Mahaprabhu,who we approach through Lord Nityananda, can can we hope to become capable of approaching the pastimes of Radha and Krsna.

Namo maha-vadanaya krsna-prema pradaya te

krsnaya krsna-caitanya-namne gaura-tvise namah

I offer pranamas unto Sri Krsna-Caitanya, who is Sri Krsna Himself. Having assumed the golden hue of Srimate Rahika, He is munificently bestowing that rare gift of krsna-prema.

[This message has been edited by Puru Das Adhikari (edited 06-30-2001).]

kailasa · June 30, 2001

All stars are connected to the Sun. From the point of view of the Earth, Sun is near to the Earth and Pluto is not so far. But from the point of view Brahmaloka the Sun on top, and Pluto is much lower. From the point of view mistiks, the planets are not present, but there is a huge continent combining in itself simultaneously 128 spaces. Thus stars mirror light of the Sun. Simplly they mirror light of the Sun with miscellaneous force and it knocks down with sense, as moon mirrors it(him) poorly enough. Posted Image Think once again, now all of us see as many planets, but really there is one continent and one Sun, Sun one, them not two. In one picture - one continent with one Sun, in another - "many" Suns there are a lot of planets and, but it is a lot of them not, this one Sun. So one Sun is mirrored in set of planets or stars.

All categories Are divided on a I.Q., but not mechanicses. Brahmaloka the best planet by this installed, but planet Lord Siva, as best, in it is not present neither error nor inconsistency, it and is. But classically Brahmaloka is considered by best as to understand the device of a material nature it is possible with the help of intellect and Lord Brahma it(him) and it(he) represents and as as the creator and first living essence. But really many from demigods have the planets as supreme. This mind(wit) is so incomplete.

It seems there are no inconsistencies what to worship Lord Visnu, but as assume that is Lord Caitanya, there are enough certificates on His(its) incoming, BEFORE HIS(ITS) INCOMING. Or put aside this question for what that time.

Sense not what to test(experience) happiness. The spiritual life should be cultivated, the spiritual life it is very deep, it not that we simplly feel, leaning(basing) on what that temporary experience. The soul is cleared gradually. Sometimes it seems, that the spiritual life leaves or weakens, but it is all is deceptive. Actually, the solutions of mind(wit) have no any value, if the mind(wit) goes out of control, repeat a sacred name. This direct devotion, direct sensation, what some call, important certainly for, but it is impossible to do(make) from this a cult. The god decides all. The god is, not so It(him) is not present. Supreme solution always behind it(him). It means to trust in the God. Sastra is necessary what to contact to it(him), there is much Sastra - for those who in ignorance, for those who in passion and áëàãîñòè. They will contradict each other and it the atheists use.

I do not understand, at what here Madhva, Lord Caitanya could come in anyone another parampara, any is absolutely not necessary to it(him) parampara. The order is simplly those. The description of greatness is for Lord Caitanya, but description mathurya is not present in the other place. In a spiritual world there is all and the sex is as, but there it absolutely another, there it Top, but here this bottom. If we confuse local sex with spiritual, it is bad, it is very bad. In a spiritual world the sex is not necessary, there all at one level - the sex or is simple a sight, this one and too. Well that you have left therefrom, that they do(make) and there is really tendency to squeeze out of the God maximal happiness, as here anybody about the friend and does not think, all such spiritual life is very popular. Hari bol, and last become first. Posted Image kailasa

July 1, 2001

That is indeed an interesting thread. Instead of giving any proof from srutis on Caitanya avatara, the owner of the thread and the administrator of the forums turn themselves to an old tactic employed by fanatic in such discussions: "Just call your opponent an atheist, rascal, demon, sahajiya, guru-tyagi, etc, and he will be defeated."

But where are the evidences from srutis? None where present until now, only some old fakes.

Members of Madhava sampradaya had posted largely in many net sites and forums these considerations (Are they atheists, rascals, demons, guru-tyagis, and so on?), just try to give a polite answer to them:

"They (Gaudiyas) interpret the Bhagavata text -- `kR^ishhNavarNaM kalau kR^ishhNaM ... yajanti hi sumedhasaH' as showing Chaitanya (a.k.a. Chaitanya Mahabhaprabhu) as an incarnation of Vishnu. This interpretation is baseless.

"No Avatar of the lord in Kaliyuga is stipulated by authorized compositions like Puranas, etc., composed by Sri Vedavyasa. There are also basically untrue and fanciful stories in some "historical" works written much after him about Sri Krishna Chaitanya giving assurances to Acharya Madhva of following him and preaching the correct doctrines. Madhva's authentic biography Sumadhvavijaya, composed immediately after Acharya Madhva, and his tradition does not permit of any such events having been neglected from mention, if there were the slightest grounds for them. Even Vishnu Sahasranama known to depict the thousand names of Vishnu is quoted in support by ISKCON - "suvarNavarNa hemAN^go varAN^gashchandanAN^gadI" etc which are all used to refer to only one form of the Lord in the original -- to refer to Sri Krishna Chaitanya ! Tattvavada does not accept these or any such interpretations with no valid basis, which even prima facie appear to fail the test of consistency with valid scriptural statements.

"A work called Chaitanya Charitamrta also elaborates an entirely fanciful account of the visit of Sri Krishna

Chaitanya to Udupi and his "defeating" the Tatvavadi ascetics there. Needless to say, the account has no basis of reality, having been composed much later with no record of any discussions being preserved and grossly

misunderstands the Tattvavada position on "the relative positions of Karma, Jnana and Bhakthi in the scheme of the Sadhanas". It should also be noted that the Tattvavada AchArya in the CC is not allowed a single quotation in favor of his position, while his opponent offers several. Also to be noted is that Chaitanya propounds a "fifth purushhArtha" entirely without support from scripture, but is not challenged upon the point by the Tattvavada teacher, which is incredible. These and other such bogus accounts appear to be sub-literate embellishments thought up in the recent past. "

Jahnava Nitai Das · July 1, 2001

I really don't have much interest in the topic of the thread. My interest is only in pointing out the lies you post so that others are not mislead. For example, your statement that Bhavishya Purana is an upapurana and that Bhagavatam does not say it is a maha-purana. As an administrator my concern is to make sure people don't intentionally try to mislead people by lying. In this case I have shown you the verse from Bhagavatam that proves your statement to be false. You seem to have missed my message.

As an administrator I am also concerned with the threads becoming clogged when people post the same message over and over again to multiple threads. It's not only annoying for the readers, it makes the thread unreadable - and discussion becomes impossible.

If your interested in that type of discussion, we can just mail books back and forth to people - but do it by regular post, not here.

I'm sure you will take note of these points and comply.

Regarding the topic of the thread, your free to say what you like. I won't interfere in your opinions as long as you follow the guidelines.

Ananga · July 1, 2001

Welcome to the forums, Puru!

I noticed that your postings are much, much shorter here than your ones on VNN. Posted Image

Sign In

Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu is Krsna Himself

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