Sri Caitanya as a Tantric-god

[Guest guest]

>> Your typo in rendering Brahman as "Brahma" will confuse many.

 

That is the way the Gaudiyas's missionaries present the things. Quite confuse isn't it?

 

They are always averse to any darsana that may show Hari as a non-dual substance not attainable by any sadhana.

 

In this kind of Tantra or religious process one should adopt a dvaita philosophy, since one may observe dualism to worship separately the male aspect and the female aspect of the Tantric God, or even His combined aspect as Sri Caitanya.

 

That is why they are so averse to advaita-vada in all of its forms, that sees no dualism in Hari's aspect, as this kind of result (orgasm as felt by the female aspect, krsna-prema) would be impossible to be attained if one is considering the Absolute Reality as non-dual (advaita).

 

So, they have a Tantric god, that must to be dual. But the Vedic god is non-dual. Trying to harmonize both conceptions of God Gaudiyas acaryas made the philosophy of acintya-bedha-abheda-tattva. But obviously no one can find any evidence in sruti about a hybrid god like that.

 

[talasiga 0]

Originally posted by Satyaraja dasa:

One may argue; "Is this Ultimate Reality attained by this Tantra?" The answer is no. Never.

 

All these Tantras, and Margas, and Darsanas, and Yogas are just different invitations.

The invitation itself does not guarantee that Krishna will come to the Party. It is up to Him. His Grace.

He may even came without ANY invitation. Gatecrashing. Typical!

 

 

[Guest guest]

>> All these Tantras, and Margas, and Darsanas, and Yogas are just different invitations. The invitation itself does not guarantee that Krishna will come to the Party. It is up to Him. His Grace. He may even came without ANY invitation. Gatecrashing. Typical!

 

And Hari may go to a party were there are only stones, trees, and bests. No harm He will relish it. He may go to a forest and stay with an aborigine avoiding some asramas where there are so many official saints. He may stay with some demons forever avoiding devatas.

 

His free will is absolute, not ours!

 

So, what is the path?

 

[Jahnava Nitai Das 2]

Rituals and religion are ruled by Tantras. Not by sruti. Tantras will establish the mantras, yantras, and all the other process on how to attain an istadeva, a qualified God. The Tantric god should have aspect, form, abode, and they should be vividly described in the literature originated from that Tantra.

I dont think your definition of tantra is very precise. You seem to be mixing the categories of agamas, pancaratras, and tantras all together.

 

 

[This message has been edited by jndas (edited 06-18-2001).]

[Maitreya 0]

Originally posted by Satyaraja dasa:

 

 

 

Some great maha-janas not even had establish any sect, but they actually have more followers than any sect or sampradaya, such as Mirabai, for example. Do you know something about her? Hers teachings and way of life? Her devotion? Her example of devotion would minimize Sri Caitanya's in many aspects.

 

Satyaraja,

Last month you were saying at most Mirabai could have attained was the status of a queen in Dvaraka.

 

Now you say Mirabai's devotion is greater then that of Sri Caitanya's in many aspects.

 

Why the dramatic change in position?

 

Maitreya

 

 

 

 

[This message has been edited by Maitreya (edited 06-18-2001).]

[Guest guest]

Tantra literally means "to expand the mind"

[amanpeter 0]

...He may even came without ANY invitation. Gatecrashing. Typical!

Typical indeed! What a rascal! Some call it causeless mercy. I liked your short and sweet "footprints by the Jamuna", prabhu.

[Guest guest]

 

Mirabai's life

 

Early Life:

 

Mira was born in 1498 in the village of Kudki into the house of Rathore. Her family were Vaisnava, worshipers of Vishnyu. Mira's people were Rajputs, Hindus, whose culture was a strict feudal patriarchy which stressed honor in both sexes. For men this meant bravery in battle. For women it meant obedience and chastity. All we know of Mira's early life comes from legends. Some of these legends tell how she got a statuette of Krishna, and how she learned of her future devotional relationship to him. This first legend tells how a wandering ascetic visited her home when Mira was a very young girl. She was deeply attracted to a small figure of Krishna belonging to the ascetic. After the ascetic left, she pined for the statuette, even refusing to eat and drink. During this same time, the ascetic had a dream telling him to return and leave the figure with her, which he did to Mira's delight. Another legend says that once during a wedding celebration, Mira asked her mother who she would marry. Her mother pointed to the statue of Krishna and exclaimed, "There he is!" After her mother's unfortunate early death, and the fact that her father was occupied in battle and unable to care for her, Mira was sent to live at her grand parents' palace in Medta.

 

Marriage:

 

In 1516 at 18 years old, Mira was given in marriage to the heir apparent of the Sisodiya clan. This marriage was arranged in hopes of strengthening the political alliance between the two clans, also to strengthen the Rajput stand against increasing Muslim power.

Legends tell us that Mira did the marriage rituals with her beloved statuette of Krishna before performing the same rites with her new husband, Bhorjraj. She refused to perform a puja, ceremonial worship of the family deity, Durga or Shakti the consort of Shiva. Mira also refused to consummate her marriage causing her husband to be suspicious and jealous. Once he heard laughter and talking behind the closed doors of her room. When he broke in, he found her worshiping at the altar of her Lord. Mira's marriage only lasted for three years.

Her husband was killed in battle. Mirabai refused to accept suttee the death of her husband, explaining that her true spouse was forever Krishna.

 

Persecution:

 

Though she was indifferent to her husband, his death left her open to persecution . The Sisodiyas had many reasons to fear Mirabai. She did not follow any of the customs that the Rajputs valued. She visited the temple and danced and sang in public, clearly against the exclusiveness which should be an attribute of a Rajput princess. She also mixed with other worshipers with no concern for gender or caste. It is also believed that she accepted Raidas who was a leather worker(leather workers were untouchables), as her guru. Stories are related concerning several attempts on her life, they include poisoning, snake bite, and a bed of nails. Mira credits her salvation to her beloved Krishna Travels: Perhaps in 1527, after her father's death, Mira left the palace permanently and began a wanders' life. She returned to her original home for refuge after the attempts on her life. She began to worship in the temple at Chaterbhuj. It is still associated with her today. After resting a bit, Mirabai traveled to Vrindaban, site of Krishna's youth. Here she encountered Jiva Goswami, a guru of Gaudiya Vaisnava Sect. Mira was refused an audience with Jiva on the grounds that she was a woman. Mira corrected Jiva by reminding him that as worshipers of Krishna, the only male is Krishna. All others were "gopis" or cowherd girls, who adore him. Jiva Goswami then realized he was wrong and recanted.

 

Dwarka:

 

Mira did not stay in Vrindaban for a long time. Next she moved to the city of Dwarka on the coast of the Arabian sea in what is now Gujarat. Dwarka is where we believe that Krishna spent the end of his life as king. Mira spent her time there worshiping at the Ranachor temple.

 

Mira's life was still not free of the influence of the Rajput courts. The Rajputs were still involved in their doomed attempt to defend against the Muslims. In 1535, Chittor was defeated when Bahadur, Shah of Gujarat, wiped out the army. Hearing news of the defeat, and to escape capture, the royal women committed jauhar. Jauhar is mass suicide by burning in the flames of the communal altar. Perhaps attempting to regain divine grace by atoning for their mistreatment of Mirabai, the Mewar family sent an envoy of priests to Dwarka to beg Mira to return home. When Mirabai refused, they vowed to fast until she changed her mind. Mira was now in a no win situation. If the delegation died of starvation, she would be blamed. Mira went into the inner sanctum to seek a solution from her beloved lord Krishna. According to legend Krishna solved this dilemma by allowing Mira to merge with him completely. Legend says that she disappeared into the idol within the temple, leaving only her sari wrapped around it. This is dated to be around 1547. To this day, it is said, the Rajput ruling caste hates her and none of the Vaishnava sects accepts her as an official saint. But she is a beloved saint in the hearts of the people.

 

[Maitreya 0]

Another nice story concerning Mira.Inspirational indeed.

 

Yes we can see she was a fearless woman.But this does not place her above Sri Caitanya in anyway.

 

It is not that Mahaprabhu was afraid to go it alone.Or that He was dependent on His sannyasi status for comfort or protection.

 

When he announced He was going through the Jharikhanda forest to Vrndaban, He said He wanted to go alone.The animals would hardly recognize the color of His cloth.

 

At the urging of Svarupa Damodara and Ramananda Raya He agreed to bless Balabhadra Bhattacarya by allowing him to accompany Him.

 

But this thread is about Caitanya and Tantra, so no need to discuss Mira too much here.

 

 

Jaya Caitanya!

 

 

 

[This message has been edited by Maitreya (edited 06-18-2001).]

[kailasa 0]

We are uniform with the God and are distinct from him(it), whether and here tantra? The absolute unity is this beginning, concept of difference this development, unity and difference complete true. The unity is simple it is mind(wit), the difference it too is simple. But the unity and difference is spiritual reason.

 

In kali yuga all sudra - êàëàó øóäðà ñàìáõàâàõ. So it is more important sruti or smriti?

Lord Caytanya played a role devoted, very much few understood His(its) real rule(situation). It that is the latent embodiment.

 

All who has no qualification, deviate, therefore first quality of knowledge this humility, what knowledge without humility and what the humility means? The humility means to suffer(bear) when there is no result, " to me is necessary bhava, today, who will give, these, those? " Humility this following behind authority. Behind the scientists, for example, people now wait for new "miracles" sometimes and is restrained , or accept religious authority, Madhvacariya or that all is ""uniform", most convenient, and what for these restrictions, God, everywhere. Than lower is our rule(situation), the above authority on which we refer. At first - " only God ", " only sacred " a correct attribute materialists, all a deceit , " only God ", " only sacred " and I , I shall define(determine) all , then - only guru, " I and guru"......

 

" The equal attitude(relation) to diksa guru and siksa guru- secret of success in spiritual life".

 

Therefore all ours guru. Unlimited siksa. Radha Krisna as it seems, it is much higher what that of analogies, therefore and is spoken, develop gradually, it is possible to receive kripa immediately and all the same what to reach(achieve) maturity, the time is necessary. And all us to this learn(teach). Krisna too studied what to give a good example.

 

We are inspired with whose that by fidelity, we reflect her(it) and as in this sense we follow in the steps. It is possible to choose Object of worship and entirely to be betraid to it(him), but in the sermon it to not suit, and in general is a sect. When devoted realized variety of spiritual life and if allocates what that aspects, it is attractive, but as a whole all is attractive, it strengthens taste. The spiritual world is uniform and simply there all supplements each other, it and is maximum harmony. Some, are inclined to receive at once "maximum", not understanding some initial basis of the spiritual world, there can be it well? How you think, whether they will receive her(it)? Will receive. who By and large is necessary to go by an authoritative image, authority? Here of opinions much, select on taste. We are uniform with the God, actually we simply frequently confuse soul to Supersoul, but we and are excellent(different) both from Supersoul and from Krisna, for example Krisna enjoys, anybody is more it to make be not capable, all others can reflect in a different degree. Those who can not understand why so, are sent in the material world.

 

Krisna tests happiness, but the ecstasy of separation Radharany is stronger, as she(it) in more dependent rule(situation), Krisna is more independent. Therefore Krisna finishes the perfection, accepting mood Srimati Radharany , moreover it(he) shows simultaneously!!! And greatness!!!. Màdhurya to race to Krisna , greatness and role accomplished(perfect) devoted in eternal separation. It also is Lord Caytanya.

[talasiga 0]

Originally posted by Satyaraja dasa:

'If Mohamed does not go to the mountain, the mountain goes to Mahamed.'

............................

So, what is the path?

1. By the time the Mountain reached Mohammed

Alas! It was all Rubble.

 

2. Why do you search a path across the River?

Can you walk on water?

Please take the Ferry of Devotion

It is steered by One who is so enlightened

that whichever shore he goes to

He reaches the destination

 

[This message has been edited by talasiga (edited 06-18-2001).]

 

[This message has been edited by talasiga (edited 06-18-2001).]

[Maitreya 0]

So you consider that the minimazation of Chaitanya Mahaprabhu?Well perhaps it wasn't an answer but it was a nice life sketch.

 

Are you the author Satyaraja?

[Jahnava Nitai Das 2]

Originally posted by Satyaraja dasa:

Tantra literally means "to expand the mind"

This definition is irrelevant when refering to categories of texts.

[Guest guest]

No, I'm not the author. I just collected some info that seems to me unbiased, from an USA University on Mirabai's life.

 

Now one should consider some points:

 

1. Mira was a woman and a widow. Not a sannyasi somewhat protected by his saffron cloth. Can one imagine the difference between both positions in a medieval India? A widow would not be better than a dog. A sannyasi would have a high and solemn status.

 

2. She use to travel all alone. No servants, no a personal secretary, and never served by a group of faithful followers. She also use to live alone. She only depended on Hari's mercy all time.

 

3. Some say that she merged in a Deity at Dwaraka. But Sri Caitanya has done the same at Puri. Puri and Dvaraka are considered at the same level. At Puri Sri Krsna is considered as Dwakaradisa by Gaudiyas. What is the difference between their sayujia (merging into the Deity)?

 

4. Consider what kind of Krsna's realization Mirabai gave to one of her casual follower;

 

A Princess and the River

 

I was with Meera when she had her first glimpse of the Yamuna river.

 

I came upon her first in the small temple of my village. I had heard singing coming from the temple which I did not recognize. When you live in a village you soon become sensitive to all the changes in the texture of sounds and smells. And I heard a voice which I did not recognize.

 

Not that it is unusual for strangers to come to our temple. But it is unusual to hear the kind of voice I heard.

 

There was longing in that voice which would wound the heart of a god. Her song was piercing, like the light after a thunderstorm.

 

As I came around the corner of the temple I saw her dancing by herself. Her song was the drum of the dance. I watched, for I do not know how long, as she danced.

 

I have seen much beauty in my life. The lords of long life have seen fit to show me beauty in many forms. But I have never seen what I saw in that moment. Her movement was a caress of tenderness. She was dancing gently on the finger tips of Krishna. Each footfall was gentleness falling from the sky like rain.

 

I have never seen Krishna face to face. But watching her dance I could make out his form in the shadows which were gathering with the night.

 

As the frogs and crickets began to weave a carpet of sound around the village her song washed through my heart and I was never to be the same again.

 

How could I not follow her when she left?

 

I asked her where she was going and she answered, "To dance on the banks of the Yamuna. My lord has asked me to join the dance."

 

So I followed as she walked her way towards the river where Krishna tamed the serpent.

 

It was morning when we reached a low hill separating us from the Yamuna. We had been walking and singing the entire night. Meera would not think of stopping now that she was so close to her beloved's sacred ground.

 

We sang our feet forward. I must admit that I nearly stopped many times. But one look at the expectation in her eyes and I forgot whatever tiredness I might thought was lurking in my body. As the morning birds began to sing we could feel the moisture of the river upon our faces. The air was laden with the perfume of the Yamuna.

 

She clutched my arm and said, "He is dancing, my dark skinned one, he is dancing so near to me."

 

Then she stopped. She suddenly became shy. Her song stilled upon her lips and I saw the tears in the corners of her eyes. I had no doubt that she was about to meet the Lord of her life.

 

"He is dancing even now, can you hear him?"

 

I listened as best I could, but I only heard the morning bird song.

 

It was then that she came alive with fire. She led me over the hill at a run and we saw the broad waters of the Yamuna bright with the morning sky. She ran straight to the river. She did not stop. For a moment I thought she was going to run over the water, so great was her

faith.

 

She dove into the Yamuna. Her clothes clung to her body as she pulled the waters of the sacred river towards her heart. She dove past time. I began to hear the sound of a flute, and the sound of many women's voices. I heard the dance and my head became heavy with grace. My eyes blurred and suddenly the morning light turned blue. A radiant blue which deepened the green of the forests and painted the water in a hue I have never seen before on this earth.

 

Meera had come home to the Krishna's river.

 

She emerged from the river and danced until she was dry. Only then did she find a tree to sit under and rest from her nights exertion. We both slept through the heat of the day and woke with the evening chorus of frogs.

 

A Rajput princess, myself, the sunset and the river welcomed the night like a long lost lover.

 

(An anonymous)

 

 

[Guest guest]

The bliss and joy of a union between soul and god is so intense, it is almost impossible to describe this feeling except as an intense and prolonged orgasm. In the ultimate union, one sees love overflowing the body and soul.

 

This is an experience related by a seer who has realized this aspect of the Ultimate Reality. Indeed it is a very beautiful way to describe his own experience.

 

But the logic of the Gaudiyas' path is as follows; "If you observe our process of sadhana you will feel this bliss and joy of the union with Hari that may be compared to an intense and prolonged orgasm. We call this krsna-prema. To feel this is to attain Hari. "

 

It is not guaranteed that you will realize Hari Himself, but that you will feel something like those who had realized Him in this specific aspect.

 

This seems to follow the same logic on how to attain the moon; "If one is faithful on the premise that the moon is made of blue cheese, to taste blue cheese should be the same as to be at the moon. So, the moon is attainable by tasting blue cheese."

 

[talasiga 0]

Originally posted by Satyaraja dasa:

This seems to follow the same logic on how to attain the moon; "If one is faithful on the premise that the moon is made of blue cheese, to taste blue cheese should be the same as to be at the moon. So, the moon is attainable by tasting blue cheese."

I do believe you have

capped your thread with blue cheese.

How could anyone possibly respond

if they are falling around laughing?

 

 

[Guest guest]

Oh, I'm sorry! Moonies are another sect, not Gaudiyas. What a disastrous metaphor!

[neophyte 0]

Satyaraj, what happened to you? Were you always like that? I used to respect you immensely. But now, I don't what to think. Do you really believe the rediculous things you state, or are you only joking. Even if you are only joking, it's too much for my neophyte ears to bear.

[Puru Das Adhikari 0]

From - Tue Jun 05 08:21:35 2001

Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu Is Sri Krsna Himself

 

Some things which the followers of the Sri Madhava sampradaya have stated against some of the evidences given by others are true and some things are false. Let's look at the facts.

 

Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu, after sanyasa, went to Jagannatha Puri and stayed there during His remaining years in this world. He travelled throughout India for 6 years - to South India and in the North.

 

Gaudiya Vaishnavas mainly lived in Gaura Mandal, Vraj Mandal and Ksetra Mandal. In Assam, Bengal, Bangladesh, Orssa, Bihar, Uttar Pradesh, everyone knows and accepts Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu. After Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu and the Gosvamis of Vrndavan left this world, Srila Narrotama Das Thakur,

Srinivas Prabhu, and Syamananda Prabhu carried on His mission preaching in Bengal, Assam, Manipur, Orrisa, etc. In all these places everyone knows who Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu is, Radha-Krsna lila, Hare Krsna maha-mantra, in every village, everywhere. In South India there are fewer who are familiar with Mahaprabhu due to language barriers.

 

India at that time was under the law of the Muslim regime, which was characterised with fighting with and oppression of the Hindu majority. After the Muslim regime came British rule. During this period the growth of Vaisnava religion progressed slowly. The sadhus in Bengal, Orrisa and U.P., Rajasthan, preached in their own regions, not travelling to other parts. During this period Srila Visvanatha Cakravarti Thakura and Srila Baladeva Vidyabushana were prominent amongst the devotees. At the end of the British

rule Srila Bhaktivinoda Thakura and Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Saraswati Thakura appeared in India and pure Vaisnava religion began to flourish.

 

Now at the present time, the whole world is becoming familiar with this pure Vaisnava culture following in the line of Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu. During the Second World War most of the ancient Indian and Vedic texts were taken by the German army for their scientific research. In many German libraries

today one can find these valuable texts, many of which are not easily accessible to the general public. The texts they are presently making available in translated form, have been edited drastically. Forty, fifty

years before in Bombay, Nirnoi Sagar Press published many edition of Sanskrit books. Currently in Gaurakpur, Kalyan Press is publishing concise, summarised editions in Hindi and Sanskrit. In Bengal all Bengali language texts are published widely.

 

Before Mahaprabhu many sastra-praman, are quoted in books such as Sri Caitanya Caritamrta. Mostly we should consult the Baivaishya Purana where there are many references to Mahaprabhu referring to His divinity, His lila, etc, spoken in sanskrit. I have seen there where it has said in parallel verses:

 

anarpita carim carat

radha pranay mahima

nadiya upavane sri krsna caitanya

 

There it is stated that Mahaprabhu is present in this world, not only for the 48 years which were recorded but will remain for 12,500,000 years. Santan-dharma, Harinama sankirtan, vaishnava religion, will be predominate at that time, continuously progressing during the entire period. It is

interesting to note that in this Purana, which is composed entirely in Sanskrit (Mumbai Nis, Press), the history of Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu's life and teachings are given, which confirm his position as Syama Bhagavan Sri Krsna himself.

 

In the edition of Caitanya Caritamrta by Srila AC Bhaktivedanta Swami Maharaj, Adi lila Chapter 3, text 49:

 

suvarna-varno hemango

varangas candanangadi

sannyasa-krc chamah santo

nistha-santi-parayanah

 

"In His early pastimes He appears as a householder with a golden complexion. His limbs are beautiful, and His body, smeared with the pulp of sandalwood, seems like molten gold. In His later pastimes He accepts the sannyasa order, and He is equipoised and peaceful. He is the highest abode of peace and devotion, for He silences the impersonalist nondevotees."

 

This is a verse from the Mahabharata (Dana-dharma, Visnu-sahasra-nama-stotra). In his commentary on the Visnu-sahasra-nama

called the Namatha-sudhabhidha, Srila Baladeva Vidyabhusana, commenting upon

this verse, asserts that Lord Caitanya is the Supreme Personality of Godhead according to the evidence of the Upanisads.

 

iti dvapara urvisa

stuvanti jagad-isvaram

nana-tantra-vidhanena

kalav api yatha srnu

 

"O King, in this way people in Dvapara-yuga worshiped the Lord of the universe. In Kali-yuga they also worship the Supreme Personality of Godhead by the regulations of the revealed scriptures. Kindly now hear that from me.

 

krsna-varnam tvisakrsnam

dangopangastra-parsadam

yajnaih sankirtana-prayair

yajanti hi sumedhasah

 

"In the age of Kali, intelligent persons perform congregational chanting to worship the incarnation of Godhead who constantly sings the name of Krsna. Although His complexion is not blackish, He is Krsna himself. He accompanied by His associates, servants, weapons and confidential companions."

 

This text is from Srimad-Bhagavatam (11.5.32). Srila Jiva Gosvami has explained this verse in his commentary on the Bhagavatam known as the Krama-sandarbha, wherein he says that Lord Krsna also appears with a golden complexion. That golden Lord Krsna is Lord Caitanya, who is worshiped by

intelligent men in this age. That is confirmed in Srimad-Bhagavatam by Gargamuni, who said that although the child Krsna was blackish, He also appears in three other colours-red, white and yellow. He exhibited His white and red complexion in the Satya and Treta ages respectively. He did not exhibit the remaining colour, yellow-gold, until He appeared as Lord Caitanya, who is known as Gaurahari.

 

Srila Jiva Gosvami explains that krsna-varnam means Sri Krsna Caitanya. Krnsa-varna and Krsna Caitanya are equivalent. The name Krnsa appears with both Lord Krsna and Lord Caitanya Krsna. Lord Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu is the Supreme Personality of Godhead, but He always engages in describing Krsna and thus enjoying transcendental bliss by chanting and remembering His name and form. Lord Krsna Himself appears as Lord Caitanya to preach the highest gospel.

 

jahnavitire navadvipe golokasye dhamni govindo

dvibhujo gourah sarvatma mahapuruso mahatma

mahayogi trigunatita sattyarupo bhakti loke kasyeti

(atharva vediya caitanyopanisad)

 

"On the banks of the Jahnavi, at Navadvipa which is non-different from Goloka, the omnipresent Supersoul, great personality, great soul, great mystic, beyond triple qualities, fully pure goodness, fully opulent, Sri Govinda, will appear in a two handed golden form and establish bhakti."

 

eko devah sarvarupi mahatma gouro raktasyamalasvetarupah

caitanyatma sa vai caitany saktir bhaktakaro bhttide bhaktivedyah

namo vedanta vedyaya krsnaya parnamatmane

souva caitanya rupaya caitanyaya namo namah

vedanta vedyam purusam puranam caitanyatmanam

taneva viditva ati mrtumeti nagah pantha visva yogi mahantam

(caitanyopanisad)

 

"In the transcendental realm of Goloka, the same supreme Lord takes many different forms. In the different ages He appears consequently as white in satya, as red in treta, black in dvapava and golden in kali. Sri Caitanya

Mahaprabhu, who possesses caitanya sakti appears as a devotee. He is the giver of pure divine love.

 

"I offer my obeisances again and again unto Sri Krsna Caitanya Mahaprabhu, who is understood by the unprecedented vedante, who is Krsna and the Supersoul."

 

By knowing this great person, who possesses unlimited qualities, one is able to escape death. Without his direction, one cannot attain his goal; there is no other way. There is no difference between Sir Krnsa and Sri Caitanya.

 

saptame goavavarna visno vityanena sva saktya caikay metya

prante prataratvativya saha svaih svamanu siksayati

asya vhekha saptum saptuma manvantare vaivasata manou

goura varno bhagavan sasaktya hladinisaktya aikyam

praptya prante ka lauyuge pratah pratams sandhyayam

avatirno bhutva saha svaih saparsadaih swavnanum

hare krsnadi janau siksayati upadisati ityavthah

(athavaveda-purusa bodhinyam)

 

"In the 7th vaivasvata manvantare at the beginning of the 28th kali-yuga, You will appear accepting the … hladini shakti, accompanied by your associates, instructing everyone to chant "Hare Krsna" mantra and other things.

 

"Gentlemen! The all merciful Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu has no comparison. The Vedas have described Him.

 

ito ham krta sannyaso avartarisyami saguno

nirvedo niskamo bhugivani stiva stho alakanandeyah kalau

catah sahasrabdopari pamcasahasrabhyantave gaua varno

dighangoh sarva laksnayeikla isvara pravtito

nija rasasvado bhakta rupo nisrakoh vidityogah yama

(atharvaveda 3rd kauda brahma vibhagantaram)

 

"Krsna answering the Deva's prayers: Between 4,000 and 5,000 years into kali-yuga, on the special request of Siva incarnate Sri Adwaita Acarya, He appears as a transcendental Brahman. I will take sannyasa. I will have a

golden complexion. Bearing many auspicious signs of a great person, I will taste my own sweetness."

 

visvambara visvena mahi pahi svaha

(atharva veda)

 

" I offer myself unto the lotus feet of Visvambara who gives pranam to the three worlds."

 

jyotiviva dhamaka

(kathopanishad 2/1/13)

 

"The form of the lord is like fire covered by smoke."

 

hiranyasmasvah hiramyakesah apranachat

sarva eva suvarnah

(chandogya upanishad (1/6/6))

 

"The lord has a golden complectioned form and hair. From His toes to His head He is golden."

 

atra brahmapuram nama pundarika yaducyute

tade vastadalam padma sanivam pura madbhutam

tanmadhye daharam saksat mayapuranamitiryate

tatra vesma bhagavatas caitanyesya paratmanah

tasmin yastvantavakaso hyantarduipah sa ucyate

(chandogya upanisad)

 

"In My heart there is an amazing petalled lotus. In My centre there is a place called "pahava" in Mayapura. Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu lives here at Antardvipa."

 

yada pasyah pasyate rukonakarna

katarimisam purusam brahmayonim

tada vidvan punyaspape vidhuya

niranjanah paramam samyamu paiti

(mundaka upanisad 3/1/3)

 

"When the living entities have audience of the Supreme Lord, then, whether they are pious or sinners, they will become friends of that Lord. The complexion of that Super Soul is golden and He is the cause of everything."

 

vedahametam purusa mahantaviadityavarna

tanieva vidituati amrtyumetinanya tamasah parastat pantha

vidya te ganaya

(svetasvuava Upanisad 3/9)

 

mahan prabhurvai purusa satvasyaisa pravartaka

sunirmalamimain praptimisano jyotirauyayah

(svetasvata Upanisad 6/12)

 

"That supreme lord Sri Mahaprabhu is spotless. He is the bestower of

causeless mercy for the jivas."

 

bhaktapriyo bhaktidata damodara ibhaspatih

indradarpaharo nanto nityananda cidatmaka

caitanya rupascaitanyas cetana gunor jitah

advaita cava nipune dvaita parama hayakah

nilah svetah sitah krsna goura pitambarachadah

sacisuta jayapradah

(Narada pancatratra/jnanamrtasar/ratra4/chapter8 balakrsna sahasva

namstotra116-117, 84,154)

 

Here it is clearly mentioned the different names of Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu such as bhakta priya, bhakti data, daniodara, caitanya, caitanyerupa, nityananda, advaitacaranipuna, advaita, gour krsna, sacisuta.

 

iti smarananantaram sri-guror ajnaya sriman-mahaprabhum sodasopacaradibhih

tan-mula-mantrenaiva pujayet. sriman-mahaprabhu-manrtoddharo yatha

urddhvamnaye sri-vyasam prati sri-narada-vakyam (3.14-16)

 

aho gudhatamah prasno

bhavata parikirtitah

mantram vaksyami te brahman

maha-punya-pradam subham

 

Then, by the order of his guru, the sadhaka shall offer puja to Sriman Mahaprabhu with the sixteen articles of worship and the six-syllable gaura-mantra. In the Urddhavamnay-samhita, there is a statement concerning this gaura-mantra, wherein Sri Vedavyasa says to Sri Narada: "Oh Brahmana,

you have asked which mantra is used in worshipping Bhagavan Sri Gauranga. This question is very profound. I shall speak of this greatly pious and auspicious mantra to you."

 

klim gauraya namah' iti

sarva-lokesu pujitah

maya-ramananga-bijaih

vag-bijena ca pujitah

 

sadaksarah kirtito 'yam

mantra-rajah sura-drumah

 

mantro yatha-klim gauraya namah; hrim, srim, klim, aim gauraya namah

 

"This gaura-mantra (gauraya namah) is worshipped using the bija-mantras of Maya, Rama, Ananga and Sarasvati. For example, just as we say klim gauraya namah, similarly we may also say hrim gauraya namah, srim gauraya namah, etc. In this way this six syllable mantra is honoured. When the people of the world combine gauraya namaha with the kama bija and chant klim gauraya namaha, they receive the gift of divine love. I have chanted to you this sadakshara-mantra-raja, which is like a kalpa-druma because it fulfils all of one's desires."

 

Dear Prabhu, I think here, while I am travelling here in England and Holland I don't have access to many books for reference. If you'd like I will give

all sastric quotations, referenced, stated as they are, when I return to India. In our Gaudiya Vedanta Samiti, the sastra praman, quotations, are available. When I return to Mathura I will be able to send them to you in

July when I return. Then I can give you a full answer with all quotations.

 

Please send me any questions you have. I am happy you remembered me. Please

accept my dandavat pranams.

 

Jaya Sri Radhe!

 

Your servant,

 

Tridandi Swami Bhaktivedanta Tirtha Maharaja

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Unfortunately all the evidences mentioned in this letter posted by Puru das are only a fake. They were already discussed in these forums for a long and no one could proof their authenticity.

 

Kedharanatha Bhaktivinoda was the Gaudiya theologian from last century who made the shape of the Gaudiya's sect in the present, including Iskcon. He has written and published many books on theology, including "Sri Caitanya Upanisad." He fond a single copy of that manuscript, he has published it and the original has disappeared forever, and no one else could ever seen it.

 

This Caitanya Upanisad (linked to Atharva Veda, according to Bhaktivinoda ) is the main sruti proof of Sri Caitanya's divinity present by Gaudiyas even nowadays.

 

Even if someone may accept Kedharanatha Bhaktivinoda as a bona fide source of new srutis, surpassing the old and dark Sri Krsna Dvapayana Vyasa in the ability of to compile srutis texts, most of people would like to appreciate as an evidence srutis mantras written before Sri Caitanya avatara, not after His advent.

 

In the same manner, all smrti texts present in this letter are from interpolated texts in several Puranas sucha as Padma and Sakanda, and from an obscure Upa-Purana named Bhavisya-Purana, whose autethenticity is denied by most of Gaudiyas themselves.

 

The Tantric evidences quoted from Tantra, Agamas and Pañcaratras may be accept as bona fide, as Sri Caitanya is actually to be considered as a Tantric God and nothing else.

 

[Puru Das Adhikari 0]

additional responces to these remarks can be seen on the Thread:

Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu is Krsna Himself

http://www.indiadivine.com/ubb/Forum1/HTML/000461.html

I have deleted my post here to avoid duplication since the moderator objects to multiple posts of the same material.

ys

pda

 

[This message has been edited by Puru Das Adhikari (edited 06-30-2001).]

[Guest guest]

Tantra & Caitanya

 

There are three chapters given on 'The Meanings of Love' in the research publication : 'The Sacred and Profane Dimensions of Love in Indian Traditions As Exemplified in the Gita Govinda of Jayadeva' by Lee Siegel.Chapters -

 

1. Caitanya

2. Tantra

3. Sahajiyaa

 

The chapter on Lord Caitanya is very devotional. Here are some excerpts from the second chapter- Tantra:

 

A passage in the 'Tantras' instructs the initiate to indulge in forbidden, sexual, incestuous, blasphemous activity in order to secure liberation:

 

Quote: 'mAtRyonau lingaM kSiptvA bhaginI stana mardanam kRtvA

guror mUrdhni pAdaM dattvA punarjanma na vidyate.'

 

"...inserting his organ into the mother's womb, pressing his sister's breasts, placing his foot upon his 'Guru's' head, he will be reborn no more."

 

Perhaps this means simply that he who is liberated is beyond all morality, all good and evil, beyond even 'Dharma'; but the verse is also taken by commentators to be written in a code language, the 'twilight language' or 'intentional language', 'sandhyA-bhASa:

 

In Hindu tantric practice, the 'organ' is the contemplating mind, the 'mother's womb' is the 'mUlAdhAra' or the base centre of the Yoga body, the 'sister's breasts' are the heart and the throat centre (anAhata and AjJA) respectively, and the 'guru's head' is the brain centre (i.e. the thousand-petalled lotus 'sahasrAra-cakra', also called 'zUnya-cakra'), and the implied instruction is thus translatable: he practices mental penetration through the successive centres, and reaches the uppermost centre, he will not be reborn, as he has there by attained 'nirvikalpa samAdhi'.

 

Songs, 'carya padas', bearing lose formal resemblance to the 'Gita Govinda', were written by Tantric Buddhist

'siddhAcAryas' from the eighth century on in Bengal in this secret language and one such verse is attributed to

Jayadeva. This is NOT to suggest that the Gitagovinda is written in 'sandhyA bhASa', but Jayadeva was most

likely well aware of Tantric doctrine, practice and language, a language which has an allegorical quality, a kind of transperency, a polydimensional, multi-referential, vitality.

 

This kind of ambiguity between the sexual and the ascetic is typical of the 'Gitagovinda'.

 

The basic structure of of the 'Gitagovinda'- the union, separation and reunion of male and female - lends itself to Tantric interpretation, for the Tantrism absolute reality is conceived as a unity which in the process of phenomenalization becomes separated into two, the male and the female. the goal is liberation from phenomenal existence by uniting the male and female, both within and without, both physiologically (the union of the 'kuNDalinI' and the brain)and cosmically (the union of 'Sakti and Shiva).

 

Radha goes to Krishna for union with Him, just as the 'kuNDalinI goes to the thousand-petalled lotus in the brain; Radha is active, as is the Sakti in Hindu Tantrism. Pandit Sadashiv Rath Sharma of the Jagannath temple in Puri explained to me that the 'Gitagovinda' is understood by the 'Yogins' of Orissa to be a Tantric text:

 

Radha is the realization of the fourth 'cakra' which is shaped like pillar and situated in the heart. When the 'Yogi' realizes the lig ht in this centre he realizes the great pleasure of Supreme Cheerfulness. Radha is the manifestation of light. Radha is the 'sudarzana cakra'. The 'Gitagovinda' describes the 'maithuna' of Tantra. 'Maithuna' is not just the union between man and woman; when 'kuNDalinI' unites with the centre of selfrealization that is 'maithuna. And the 'UddiSa Tantra' says that when the tip of the tongue touches the tonsil that is also 'maithuna'.

 

Pandit Rath Sharma had explained also that the 'Gitagovinda' is a great devotional work, 'pure bhakti'; I asked him how Tantrism and 'bhakti' could be reconciled (as the two systems seem to me fundamentally so different);the question did not make a great deal of sense to him(as the two systems seemed to him fundamentally so similar):

 

In 'bhakti' everything is 'zuddha-prema' purelove. Without 'zuddha-prema' there is nothing. No relatioship with God.

 

There are two types: 'zArIrika-prema (carnal love) and 'Atmika-prem' (spiritual love).'zAririka-prema can lead to supreme realization when the devotee contemplates the 'maithuna' of Radha and Krishna. When the 'yogi'

meditates this combination in his mind it is the 'maithuna' of superhuman thought. It is the 'maithuna of Tantra'.That is also 'rasa' Such 'rasa' is in the 'Gitagovinda'. Jayadeva related to Krishna as Radha to Krishna. Jayadeva Goswamin was a great 'yogi' and he was full of devotion to Lord Jagannatha.

 

Historically the reconciliation and coalescence of Krishna bhakti and Tantrism seems to have occured in the

Sahajiya-cult.

 

[Puru Das Adhikari 0]

 

Sri Sri Guru Gaurangau Jayatah!

A new section has been added to our website:

 

www.gaudiya.net/sahajiya

 

To counter the rising wave of sahajiyaism, we have compiled several essays, which address and defeat the prominent misconceptions presented by various prakrta-sahajiya groups and other diverted lineages around the pure Gaudiya-sampradaya. Some of them are written by Srila Bhaktivedanta Narayana Maharaja,

some by Srila Bhaktiprajnana Kesava Maharaja, one by Thakur Bhaktivinode, and some by ourselves. Let the pure Gaudiya lineage be understood in favor of apasiddhantic confusion.

*********************

 

4. 14

bhagavata-bharata-sastra agama purana

caitanya krsna-avatara prakata pramana

pratyakse dekhaha nana prakata prabhava

alaukika karma, alaukika anubhava

dekhiya na dekhe yata abhaktera gana

uluke na dekhe yena suryera kirana

 

"Srimad-Bhagavatam, Mahabharata, the Puranas, and other Vedic literatures all give evidence to prove that Sri Caitanya is the avatara or descent of Krsna Himself. One can also directly see Sri Caitanya's manifest influence in His uncommon deeds and uncommon Krsna conscious realization. But faithless unbelievers do not see what is clearly evident, just as owls do not see the

rays of the sun.

(Caitanya Caritamrta-Adi 3.83 - 85)

 

Who are the self realized acaryas, and who are owls can be left unstated, but still understood. In Bg. Krsna clearly states that He is only understood by the non envious and by those who render pure devotional service,otherwise not. The absolute truth,His name fame form and pastimes cannot be either approached or comprehended through the materially conditioned senses, including the mind and intellect, let alone university so called scholarship.

 

[Tarun 6]

Haribol SatyarAj et al, Onde esta voce agora?

Well, so far I've heard,

1) tan means body, that which covers the soul, the real self grossly.

2) man means mind, that which covers the soul, the real self subtly.

Thus, tantra delivers the body, mantra delivers the mind.

Tantra is meant to raise one from tamogun to rajogun.

Mantra is meant to raise one from rajogun to sattvagun.

Depending on the mantra's potency it may then raise one further up to nirgun.

As Zrimad BhAgavatam (1.2.24) states,

pArthivAd dAruNo dhUmas

tasmAd agnis trayImayaH

tamasas tu rajas tasmAt

sattvaM yad brahma-darzanam

Passion is higher than ignorance, yet goodness is best, because it affords and yields Absolute Truth.

Zriman MahAprabhu came to give us that: that mantra which would raise us beyond even sattvagun to nirgun, no material qualities.

[animesh 0]

Puru Das Adhikari wrote:

"In the age of Kali, intelligent persons perform congregational chanting to worship the incarnation of Godhead who constantly sings the name of Krsna. Although His complexion is not blackish, He is Krsna himself. He accompanied by His associates, servants, weapons and confidential companions."

 

Does the verse really say "Although His complexion is not blackish?" or does it say "Whose complexion is blackish?"

 

Where is the Sanskrit equivalent of "not" in the verse?