Bhaktivedanta Goswami on Ahimsa

[Jahnava Nitai Das 2]

Inspirational quotes from Bhaktivedanta Goswami on ahimsa:

 

"Thou shall not kill." That is the beginning of religious life. The animal killers cannot understand what is God. It is not possible. There is a statement in the Bhagavata, vina pasughnat.

 

nivrtta tarsair upagiyamanad

bhavausadhac chrotra-mano-'bhiramat

ka uttamasloka gunanuvadat

puman virajyeta vina pasughnat

 

"Who can remain aloof from the chanting of the holy name of God unless he's an animal killer?" Yes. Animal killers cannot understand what is God, what is God's name. That's not possible. Krsna, what to speak of killing animal, He was embracing animal every morning, every... Yes. He was embracing.

 

[This message has been edited by jndas (edited 05-29-2001).]

[Jahnava Nitai Das 2]

Vina pasughnat. That is stated in the Srimad-Bhagavatam, that "One who is killer of animal, he cannot understand the spiritual science." Vina pasughnat. This is the statement. Pasughna means the animal killer. Therefore the first prohibition is stop this animal killing.

 

[Jahnava Nitai Das 2]

Those who are animal killers, they are not even human being, what to speak of religious system. Nivrtta-tarsair upagiyamanad bhavausadhac chrotra-mano-'bhiramat ka uttamasloka-guna. If you are animal killer, your God consciousness is finished. You'll never be able to understand what is God. Then your life is finished. This life is meant for understanding God, and if you are animal killer, then your God understanding is finished.

[Jahnava Nitai Das 2]

According to Narada Muni and Vedic culture, animal killers are not even gentlemen, to say nothing of being religious men. A religious person, a devotee of the Lord, must be nonviolent. Such is the nature of a religious person. It is contradictory to be violent and at the same time call oneself a religious person. Such hypocrisy is not approved by Narada Muni and the disciplic succession.

[Jahnava Nitai Das 2]

The word asuci-vratah, unclean vow, is very significant in this connection. Such demoniac people are only attracted by wine, women, gambling and meat-eating; those are their asuci, unclean habits. Induced by pride and false prestige, they create some principles of religion which are not approved by the Vedic injunctions. Although such demoniac people are most abominable in the world, still, by artificial means the world creates a false honor for them. Although they are gliding toward hell, they consider themselves very much advanced.

[Jahnava Nitai Das 2]

The first principle of Vedic civilization is the avoidance of meat-eating and intoxication.

[Jahnava Nitai Das 2]

And jaghanya-guna-vrtti-stha adho gacchanti tamasah. Those who are tamasah, because they have got very abominable characters.... The abominable character is described in the sastra, sinful life. Illicit sex, intoxication, meat-eating, and gambling. These are the four pillars of abominable life. Tamasi. The sastra says, tamasi ma jyotir gamaya. So if we remain in this tamasi, then jaghanya-guna-vrtti-stha adho gacchanti tamasah. Adho gacchanti means lower planetary system or animal life , degraded life, abominable life, low grade life. We shall get.

[Jahnava Nitai Das 2]

The Kali-yuga is spreading very rapidly, and wherever the Kali-yuga is very prominent, these four items are very prominent: unrestricted sex life, gambling, and meat-eating, and intoxication. When people become practiced to all this nonsense, they think, "Oh, what is wrong there?" But it is the most abominable part of human civilization. Anyone who are indulging in these four things, they cannot imagine where is he and how he will be free from this conditional life. So this is the purificatory process. So as you are being initiated, initiation means beginning of your purificatory process. So if we are serious about purification, then we must follow these four principles, if you want to be cured.

Of course, this chanting of hari-nama will make you purified. That's nice. But just like this fire I am going to ignite. This is dry firewood. But if I help it, to keep it dry, then the fire will be very nice, blazing fire. But if I pour water on it, then it will be difficult to ignite. Similarly, the fire of Krsna consciousness will keep you always progressing, but at the same time, if we also voluntarily do not pour water on that fire, then it will be nice. Similarly, Krsna consciousness or chanting Hare Krsna will keep you progressive. At the same time, voluntarily, if you do not commit all these nonsenses, then it will be very nice. And if you continue this water pouring, then... Just like a man is taking medicine at the same time doing all nonsense. Then his disease will not be cured, or may take very, very long time. So we should not be irresponsible in that way because life is very short.

 

[Jahnava Nitai Das 2]

Every living creature is a son of the Supreme Lord, and He does not tolerate even an ant's being killed. One has to pay for it. So, indulgence in animal killing for the taste of the tongue is the grossest kind of ignorance.

[Jahnava Nitai Das 2]

If one indulges in meat-eating anyway, it is to be understood that he is acting in ignorance and is making his future very dark. Of all kinds of animal killing, the killing of cows is most vicious because the cow gives us all kinds of pleasure by supplying milk. Cow slaughter is an act of the grossest type of ignorance. In the Vedic literature the words gobhih prinita-matsaram indicate that one who, being fully satisfied by milk, is desirous of killing the cow, is in the grossest ignorance.

[Jahnava Nitai Das 2]

The animal-killers (dvisatah), envying other living entities and the Supreme Personality of Godhead, are placed in darkness and cannot understand the theme and objective of life.

[Guest guest]

 

What is the aim of these instructions? There are only karmic instructions. By following them one for certain may attain sattva-guna and perhaps Svarga-loka, but he won't attain even mukti. Was Srila A C Bhaktivedanta Swami Goswami a guru of karma-yoga?

 

Are these instructions the cause of bhakti?

 

 

[Maitreya 0]

Satyaraja,

 

Please reread the example of trying to light a fire while pouring some water on the wood.

 

MC

[Guest guest]

 

Of course, this chanting of hari-nama will make you purified. That's nice. But just like this fire I am going to ignite. This is dry firewood. But if I help it, to keep it dry, then the fire will be very nice, blazing fire. But if I pour water on it, then it will be difficult to ignite. Similarly, the fire of Krsna consciousness will keep you always progressing, but at the same time, if we also voluntarily do not pour water on that fire, then it will be nice. Similarly, Krsna consciousness or chanting Hare Krsna will keep you progressive. At the same time, voluntarily, if you do not commit all these nonsenses, then it will be very nice. And if you continue this water pouring, then...

 

So, a doubt may be raised here. If that KC is brought about by a sadhana, such as follow 4 principles and by chanting 16 rounds, then obviously KC must not have existed previously. It arose by the performance of this sadhana, or by following 4 principles and by chanting 16 rounds. In that case KC would be anitya (non-eternal) or krtrim (that which is not natural or spontaneously manifest).

 

Therefore, how could this anitya-krsna-consciousness be accepted as something nitya-siddha (eternally accomplished), or in other words, as the supreme object of attainment (parama-purusartha-vastu)?

 

This discipline instructed by the acarya seems to be a perfect absurd and a non-sense. It only may create an anitya (non-perennial) phenomena called by him KC by a karmic process. If you interrupt the process this anitya and unique phenomena is also interrupted.

 

All the other acaryas in bhakti line establish that krsna-prema is the aim. It is an eternally established reality; it is not brought about by any sadhana. It automatically manifests itself in the heart by Sri Hari's mercy or by the mercy of His devotees. It is already in jiva's svarupa, it is the intrinsic nature of the soul.

 

Bhakti is the internal potency of Sri Hari and she is self-manifesting and independent of any cause. The Srimad Bhagavatam explains:

 

yato bhaktir adhoksaje / ahaituky apratihata

(S.B. 1.2.6)

 

"Bhakti to Sri Adhoksaj is causeless and uninterrupted..."

 

The word ahaituki, causeless, means that bhakti has no cause (hetu). Bhakti works by her own independent sweet will.

 

And the Srimad Bhagavatam (11.12.9) also states:

 

yam na yogena sankhyena / dana-vrata-tapo-'dhvaraih

vyakhya-svadhyaya-sannyasaih / prapnuyad yatnavan api

 

"Even though one engages with great endeavor in the mystic yoga system, philosophical speculation, charity, vows, penances, ritualistic sacrifices, teaching Vedic mantras, or the renounced order of life, still one cannot achieve Me."

 

So, there is no bhakti-formula such as 4 principles and 16 rounds.

 

dasa dasanudasa

Satyaraja dasa

 

[Guest guest]

"Buddha namna anjana suta kikiteu bhavisyati. The mother's name also given there, anjana suta. And kikitesu means Gaya-pradesh. In India there is a province called Bihar. In that province there is a district Gaya. In that district Lord Buddha appeared. Lord appeared in Bihar province. He was ksatriya, He was Hindu, and He propagated this religion of nonviolence, Buddhism. His specific propaganda was to stop animal killing. So animal killing is recommended in the Vedic literature. Therefore people wanted to give him Vedic evidences that "In the Vedic literature animal sacrifice is recommended under certain condition. So how do you preach? You are Hindu and you are followers of Vedas. Why you are preaching nonviolence?" Therefore he had to give up Hindu religion. He said that "I do not care for your Vedas. It is my propaganda to stop animal killing. So if you follow me, then you must stop animal killing." Ahimsa paramo dharma.

So later on, of course, Lord Buddha was patronized by a great emperor, Asok, and therefore practically all Indian population turned to be Buddhist, with few exceptions.(Lecture on Bhagavad-gita 1968, by Srila A C Bhaktivedanta Swami Maharaja)

 

So, according Srila A C Bhaktivedanta Swami Maharaja's own statements ahimsa is propaganda made by Buddhists, not by any follower of sanatana-dharma.

 

Was Srila A C Bhaktivedanta Swami Maharaja a Buddhist in disguise? A new sankaracarya?

 

[Maitreya 0]

Originally posted by Satyaraja dasa:

[This discipline instructed by the acarya seems to be a perfect absurd and a non-sense. It only may create an anitya (non-perennial) phenomena called by him KC by a karmic process. If you interrupt the process this anitya and unique phenomena is also interrupted.

dasa dasanudasa

Satyaraja dasa

So is this professor S. really a representivtive of Narayana Maharaja as he implies?I hope not, but if so I guess I can now understand why they are not welcome to preach at ISKCON temples.

 

Are there any disciples of Narayana Maharaja out there who disagree with the professors words?

 

MC

 

 

[Jahnava Nitai Das 2]

I certainly hope he doesn't actually represent Narayana Maharaja. He is certainly giving his guru a bad name. But maybe this is actually what his guru has taught him. That certainly would explain why certain temples don't allow him to preach there.

 

It is quite deceptive to claim to be a siksha disciple of someone, like Srila Prabhupada, but to disagree with every thing he states. Perhaps the meaning of disciple is different in Brazil and India.

 

And regarding the original topic, Satyaraj, you continue with your strawmen arguments. You claim we are stating something we never said, and then you try to defeat it.

 

Where was it said, and by whom, that vegetarianism leads to bhakti? But you post a long repsonse against a non-existent argument.

 

You did the same with the other thread. When I asked you to show me references from the smriti texts, you couldn't do it, and instead you posted three long messages about how bhakti is independent of everything. Who was talking about bhakti in that thread? Your habit is, when you can't substantiate a point with vedic evidence, you change the topic to bhakti, prema, and the such.

 

 

[This message has been edited by jndas (edited 05-29-2001).]

[kailasa 0]

To Satyaraja dasa

 

Whether correctly I have understood you, it is possible there is a meat and quietly to develop spiritually? Fidelity it spiritually, why and to not eat meat? Really. And whether it is possible to have a drink by alcohol, otherwise it(him) hardly to digest. You similar are waited by(with) complete "success" in the material world, is to that to study.

 

Chukcu eat in the basic meat, they live about 30 years, do not bathe in general. Now is devoted in Siberia Chukcu his(its) settlement would collect to it(him) money that it(he) has gone to city and it(he) became there devoted, but the meat it(he) does not eat. So you have many chances too to cease it(him) to use. But all according to your desire.

 

All is very simple - gyany are inclined to gyane and develops vision gyany, some are developed by(with) vision karma-yoga, if at the man the consciousness is foggy, all seems to it(him) foggy. Is still brahmavada involved on prema, but the better clean Mood, than distortion of true and better eat meat in the morning, day and evening, than vaisnavaparadha.

 

BUT! karma-yoga is higher gyanà! And dhyana!.... " Better than knowledge, however, is meditation, and better than meditation is renunciation of the fruits of action, for by such renunciation one can attain peace of mind ". Gyanà, dhyana on games and brahmavada, it yet no fidelity, I agree.

 

When gopis hear about games in Dvaraka them bhava is increased, they do not think - " it not that Êrisna, it Mula Sankarsana ".

 

* * *

"Does not follow To get on a tree and to tear fruits, how they have ripened. Therefore followers Øðèëû Rupa Ãîñâàìè never try to jump through the initial stages of devoted service

 

Ýêñòàòè÷åñêèå of emotion (bhava) never will wake up in the one who neglects rules of an initial step of devoted service (ñàäõàíîé). Even the one whom the spontaneous devoted service (ðàãàíóãà-áõàêòè) has opened to, should not recede from regulating principles of devoted service".

 

From Ïðàêðèòà-race øàòà-äóøèíè, or Hundred cautions against material pleasures » Øðèëû Áõàêòèñèääõàíòû Ñàðàñâàòè Ãîñâàìè Ïðàáõóïàäû

 

[kailasa 0]

To Satyaraja dasa

Thank to you for subjects about Sri Caitanyi.

[Guest guest]

I certainly hope he doesn't actually represent Narayana Maharaja.

 

My Gurudeva is a siddha-mahapurusa and obviously I'm not. So, I cannot represent him. And thank you to point out many of my faults.

 

But you for certain represent your guru and therefore is unable to offer any refutation against our objections, only some evasive words and nothing else. Try at least to defend the 'bhakti-formula' taught by your Gurudeva as something bona fide employing some sastric evidences and solid logic arguments.

 

Concerning Iskcon temples we offer our pranamam from a safe distance from them, as they are places were our Gurudeva is explicit slandered. These are temples only by name.