Moksha and Salvation

[narayanadasa 0]

Jai Sriman Narayana:

 

I got this question from another thread and it seems to convey one major difference between Hinduism and Christianity / Islam.

 

Are Moksha as referred in Hinduism and Salvation as referred in Christianity the same?

 

In my opinion they are not.

 

Salvation as per christianity is deliverance from sin and then the soul reaches heaven. If not delivered, it goes to hell.

 

Moksha as per hinduism is freedom from rebirth i.e may be we can say freedom from Karma (both Good and Bad). The soul is not reborn but reaches God.

 

Any thoughts?

 

[gurukul 0]

namaste narayandasa

 

I am a hindu but a yeshu christ bhakta and have read the Bible.

 

There is a vast diffrence in moksha and salvation with its destinations.hindu beleif is getting freed from the karma samsara or cycle of births and law of karma and getting union with the brahman (impersonal-cannot ascribe personality,nirguna -cannot ascribe quality and one with all-everything flows from him) from whom all humans proceeds through brahmavidya or self effort.

 

The biblical view is that the creation and creator (supreme ,personal and infinite) is seperate. The creation is ascribed with free will (will to choose) to obey or disobey against God the person with consequences in both (good-reward and evil-punishment).The first human adam and eve choose to disobey by breaking the command given to them and thus fell in sin that brought death and suffering.There was a legal pronouncement of human being fallen in sin.thus every person born into this world inherits the nature or inclination to sin.This sin also resulted into seperation from God in relationship with him.

 

Salvation thus was to bring back this relationship for eterntiy with God which was impossible through human effort because all are under the power of sin and inherited the sinful nature.God in his love promises to restore this relationship through prajapatiyagnaha or divine sacrifice.so that mankind can back again relate with him.

 

Thus at a point of history through a specific events in the nation of Israel the prajapatiyagnaha or divine sacrifice Jesus christ comes and was killed in ignorance of humankind and rise back from the dead.During that crucifixion the sin of the whole world was dealt with and the legal penalty of sin paid.so the salvation comes through believing in that sacrifice of Jesus christ on the cross and resurrection.A person is said to be transformed in his body like the person of Jesus on the great Judgement day and thus escapes the Judgement that has come due to sin.he/she is said to be in a place called heaven (place were God dwells)with eternal relationship with him forever with ecastic Joy.

 

Thus moksha is being one with brahman as humans flow from him through selfeffort of realisation , salavation is being with him in relationship forever from power of sin and death and is an inititative from God to save and not from human works.

 

I hope this breif answer helps to get the whole picture.If you need more information then be free to write back.

 

namaste.

 

[Guest guest]

 

They are the same (including the Buddhist Nirvana) in the sense they all signal the end of suffering and uncertainity, which is what man is basically looking for. The specific details of how & what are of course, different as they were developed by different people.

 

Also, note that Moksha itself is defined differently in different traditions.

 

Cheers

 

 

[narayanadasa 0]

Jai Sriman Narayana:

 

What about the soul as per christianity? Was it created by God? Is it eternal? Were Adam and Eve the 1st created souls? Why did they disobey? Was it because of ignorance?

 

If so, can I say that human beings will always be ignorant because they inherited that from Adam and Eve? And the only way to become non-ignorant is live with the hope that Christ already died for this sin (in ignorance)?

[Guest guest]

Hari OM

 

These seems good questions to me.

 

i am always amused at Abrahmic God

 

He had created Senses, sensual pleasures and objects of sensual pleasures, however whenever man uses them, He goes mad. He then curses them and heaps sin on them.

 

After a while gets so much pathetic He starts sending His sons and prophets, gets them killed and clears the sin of all the people (the sin which He throwed on the people in the first place)

 

He looks very sadistic and perverted and tirelessely working to create sensual pleasures, to assign sins for those pleasures and to clear them later, my humble request to Him is---cool down, take a bit rest.

[narayanadasa 0]

Jai Sriman Narayana:

 

It is all the more disturbing when the term Moksha (that supposedly has no single-word equivalent in English) is deliberately equated to Christian Salvation and all sorts of things are said abou that.

[gurukul 0]

namaste shiv,

 

The struggle of all humans is surely to find freedom from sin ,suffering,and death.Just like our vedic prayers says "lead me from mortality to immortality ,from darkness to light and from falsehood to truth." But how is that attained is the big question which all tries to answer.can all be true ? ;can all be false ? or only one is true?- is the biggest question does all human struggle.The real human struggles only comes when he sees that there is a great contradiction to accept all to be true.And a contradictory statement cannot be at the same time in the same sense.

for example if you say I am wearing a white shirt and freind narayan says its black and I say its red all cannot be true at the same time in the same sense.

 

lets see what the various view says :

Moksha in Hindusim :To be united with brahman the supreme being through brahma vidya and good works .moksha hence is a realisation that he is brahman.hence come to a state of unity with brahman.

 

Nirvana or buddhism :To flee from personal desires that results in endless cycle of rebirths.hence nirvana is getting away from personal desires that causes selfishness through the eight noble paths to come to a state of nonexistance.here there is no brahman or any God or gods.

 

The salavation in Islam :To submit to allah and the teachings of muhammed.the paradise in islam is a place of pleasure were a person enjoys allah with also other things as wine and virgins.

 

Biblical Salvation :Is God's initiative to save all mankind through belief in his son Jesus christ.this salvation begins on the earth when a person accepts God's provision of salvation that was accomplished in the death and resurrection (coming back to life from death)of his son Jesus chirst.It completes in a place called heaven where God himself dwells and here the person enjoys his infinite presence through relationship with him eternally.In this place is absence of all sorrow ,pain ,suffering ,death etc

 

Hence if you note above diffrence -if I have to accept Buddhism then I have to deny divine beings and also come to a point of nothing which stands in contradiction with other religions of having divine being or beings and also heaven ,paradise,brahman so is the case of other religions.I cannot have both and adjust some and reject others because the moment I do that I create another religious view which stands in contradiction with others.I cannot have heaven and not have heaven at the same time ,have God and not have God at the same time,earn freedom through good works and not earn through good works at the same time.

 

parameshwar guide you.

 

gurukul

[gurukul 0]

Namaste sreeman guest.

 

what will happen if all the sensual pelasures ,senses are practised within no limits and boundries by everyone in this world? .is it only God who goes mad when things are practised out of limits? what about law , you and me? dont we all get mad when we see Rape ,incest , chir haran , hooking somebodys wife ,passing comments on our own sisters ,terrorism ,Fightings ,relationship problems etc.

 

Are all these legitimate practise Just because they are given to us as senses and we are free to practise it? or do you think they should not have been given to us? Can we have infinite freedom?

 

As you began to answer all the question above to yourself you will realise why God intervenes at times when illigetimate practises happens.

 

Namste

 

Gurukul

[gurukul 0]

Namaste narayandsasa

 

The soul or spirit as viewed in biblical worlview is one with the body though they are distinguished.The soul or spirit does not transmigrate or change to another body through rebirths as understood in Hinduism and buddhism.The biblical view is that God created every soul,spirit and body in his divine nature.hence all humans are equal because they all are created from his divine nature.But due to sin and disobedience they inherit the sinful nature and thus we see- all humans have an inclination to sin.at the day of Judgement those who belived Jesus chirst through repentance will receive a transformed body (resurrected body like Jesus himself) to be with God in heaven.therefore its not Just the soul but the whole soul,spirit and body that will be transformed like Jesus and will be eternal.

 

Adam and Eve were the first living human beings on this planet as taught in the bible and were created good.they were not ignorant.God did warn them of the evil consequences that will follow because of rebellion but gave them the free choice to decide.If there would have been no free choice they would have been mere robots with one track direction or we could call in hindi katputli or puppets.

 

We did not inherit ignorance because we all understand to greater extent good and evil.what we have inherited is the fallen adamic nature to sin in the midst of choice.

 

As per the bible ,since the penalty of sin is upoun all mankind and its punishment is obvious ,God himself provides an escape route.He comes down through a special means of virigin birth so that he cannot inherit the sinful nature of mankind and becomes a perfect sacrifice for all mankind through events that happened in Israel.Hence the way that a person can find forgiveness of sins and its penalty is knowing ,beleiving and accepting that sacrifice.this restores back the relationship with God through his son yeshu christ the supreme sacrifice or the prajapati yagnaha (God himself is the sacrifice).

[Guest guest]

Hari OM

 

Halleulayiah (as you adopt our namaste, i adopted your slogan)

 

The freedom or choice available to one depends on his own energy levels, for example i am limited with a definite form, but if i become a sidhha then i can shrink or expand my form and still in higher realms can change my form on will. However if i don't use my energies judically i will loose most of them and hence the choice or freedom get reduced.

 

Now your questions do make sense, like rape etc., are illigetimate and should not be done, no arguments about it.

 

Coming to your solutions, do you think if some body rapes some one else and then believe in Jesus christ, then will his sin be washed away or he has to take many births and suffer to clear his sins?

 

If you believe in the first then there can be no arguments, however if you believe in the second then you are questioning your own faith.

 

Hinduism in general and Gita in specific , does not say God curses somebody or heaps sin on him for indulging in senusal pleasures (both legtimate and illegtimate, even though illegtimate was not part of the topic in the first place), but these senusal pleasures are transient and gives more pain than pleasure, so man should make effort to overcome the attraction of them. So now compare for yourselves and start questioning.

 

BTW as the last question , do you think Eating an apple was an illegtimate practice, warranting God's interference?

[Guest guest]

namaste guest ,

 

The energy levels has its must function within a specific moral boundary or else there is havoc ,pain and suffering as we already see in the world.The energy level given to us must be directed for the betterment of humanity and not foe destruction even though you attain to be sidh.

 

Do you really think its legitimate to exercise once power loosely as he/she wants to be? do we really have that infinite freedom to do that and yet survive being sidh? the stories of kansa or ravana shows that infinite freedom cannot be practiced as people wants or there is always a holy intervention.

 

A person who before coming to know Jesus christ is in a diffrent state of life were he exercises his so called "infinite freedom" to complete his lust.

Now please note before I answer the above case- when God looks at you and me then he surely knows all our sins that is done secrect and open.what do we expect from God to do about us when are found guilty? -send us to hell and punish severly for our sins? the answer is obvious" NO" from us.we expect that we should be forgiven ,cleansed and given a chance or oppurtunity to move ahead in life maybe because we are helpless ,weak ,in diffrent state of mind etc. we expect that mercy be granted to us by all possible means.WHAT SHOULD BE DONE TO THE MAN BY GOD ABOVE IN THE CASE YOU HAVE SUBMITTED ?-PUNISH HIM ,THROW HIN IN HELL?

Jesus said "Do to others as would like to do to yourself".

The man above also need mercy ,oppurtunity to be saved and given a good life.GOD IN HIS LOVE AND MERCY DOES THE SAME TO YOU ,ME AND THAT MAN-GIVE AN OPPURTUNITY TO REPENT AND BE SAVED.The law of heaven is for eternity and the law of earth is temporal.hence for eternity God forgives but in this world that is temporal the person surely is punished through law of the land even though forgiven for eternity.

[Guest guest]

due to long post I continue the second part of your question.

 

Eating of the apple or the fruit was not the issue.it was the moral law of disobedience and rebellion that was behind eating the fruit.suppose if I have a graden with apples and mangoes and I set a rule that tresspassers will be punished and a person breaks into the garden inspite of the law he will be taken into accountability not for eating the apple but breaking the rule behind.

 

God did not intervene because there was free will granted to them to follow God's command or reject his command and face the consequences.if there would have been no free will then they would have been a mere puppets or robots with no free will.God did not intend to create people who are mere robots but respond in the midst of choices both good and evil with obedience and love.

 

No religion allows illigetimate practises hence the stories in gita and ramayana is good vs evil.if a religion does not condemn immorality then it comes under question of truth. if morality is not practised by claimers of divinity then the person claiming is not the truth.

I will be outstation for a 5 days will answer after coming back if there are any other clairifcations needed, questions or opinions.till that time namaste.

[Guest guest]

Hari OM

 

i can't make out whether you are really unable to comprehend the core issue or beating the bush in a true Abrahmic style.

 

The core issue is:--

 

If enjoying Senusal pleasures (Legitimate) is a SIN, then who is the most sinner, me or who had CREATED that sensual pleasure in the first place?

 

If i had not committed any illegtimate act , then what is the need for repetenance and how do i get sin?

 

If i don't need repetenance then what is the need of God? you imply by your saying that all people who believe in Christ are sinners?

 

And to answer your next thread:---

 

If somebody breaks into my garden and eats an apple, may be at the worst i may shout at him, would NEVER curse for him and ALL his generations to follow to suffer.... and then give some exemptions to his generations that whoever shouts my name need not suffer...

 

Sorry somewhere something is not fitting in the place, you need to start looking critically at your faith and convince yourself whether everything is right, no need to convince me or anybody else, because before you start marketing your religious views, first fully ensure yourself and then start, else you may fall into the so called "eternal sin" for creating confusion among people

[gurukul 0]

namaste guest,

 

Gurukul here.I think you are not reading my post properly.let me take your questions and then answer it (IN CAPS) so that it will be clear.

 

Your question:If enjoying Senusal pleasures (Legitimate) is a SIN, then who is the most sinner, me or who had CREATED that sensual pleasure in the first place?

Answer :I NEVER SAID IF YOU READ CAREFULLY THAT LEGITIMATE PLEASURES ARE SIN.THEY ARE GIVEN BY GOD TO US HENCE GOOD.WHAT I SAID IS THE LEGITIMATE BECOMES ILLIGITIMATE WHEN PRACTISED OUTSIDE ITS BOUNDRIES.FOR EXAMPLE :SEX WITH A WOMEN PRACTISED OUTSIDE OF MARRIAGE IS SIN.LIKE SEX WITH SOMEONES ESLE WIFE ,PROSTITUTE ,LUSTING AFTER A WOMEN WHO IS SOMEONES ELSE WIFE ,LOOKING AT A WOMEN OTHER THAN YOUR WIFE -ALL THIS IS SIN AND ILLIGITIMATE.SEX WITHIN THE CONTEXT OF MARRIAGE IS NOT A SIN.OTHER EXAMPLES OF ILLGETIMATE SINS ARE LYING ,CHEATING ,ROBBING ,SWINDLING ,UNWANTED ANGER ETC. HENCE THERE IS A CLEAR DISTINGUSIH BETWEEN A LEGITIMATE EXPRESSION AND ILLIGITIMATE PRACTISE THAT CAUSES SIN.THESE ILLIGITIMATE PRACTICES ARE NOT GIVEN BY GOD BUT ARE AN ABSENCE OF GOOD.

 

YOUR QUESTION:If i had not committed any illegtimate act , then what is the need for repetenance and how do i get sin?

ANS:LOOK AT THE ABOVE LIST-JUST A FEW AND SEE WEATHER YOU HAVE SINNED OR NOT.JUST A SMALL EXAMPLE OF SIN CANALSO BE LYING ,JEALOUSY,LOOKING AT A WOMEN LUSTFULLY,DISHONESTY ETC -BE HONEST TO CHECK.WE ALL FALL SOMEWERE IN ONE CATEGORY OR THE OTHER SOMETIMES ALL AND HENCE SIN.

 

If i don't need repetenance then what is the need of God?

I THINK READING JUST FEW LIST OF SIN FROM ABOVE LEADS US TO KNOW THAT WE FALL SOMEWERE OR THE OTHER AND HENCE IN NEED OF REPENTANCE.IN EVERY MAN THERE IS AN INCLINATION TO SIN THATS WHAT WE CALL INHERITING THE SIN.I AM SURE NO ONE ESCAPES THE FEELING OF GUILT IN THIS WORLD.

 

your question:you imply by your saying that all people who believe in Christ are sinners?

ANS:NO-I DIDNT SAY THAT.EVERY PERSON BORN IN THIS WORLD SINS SOME OR THE OTHERWAY AND HENCE ARE GUILTY OF SIN.IN JESUS CHRIST GOD PROVIDES ALL OF US AN ESCAPE ROUTE TO BE FORGIVEN AND BE SAVED.WITHOUT SACRIFICE OF PRAJAPATI YAGNAHA THE DIVINE AND PERFECT SACRIFICE AS PER VEDAS AND JEWISH SCRIPTURES THERE IS NO FORGIVENESS OF SIN.

 

 

 

[gurukul 0]

YOUR RESPONSE :If somebody breaks into my garden and eats an apple, may be at the worst i may shout at him, would NEVER curse for him and ALL his generations to follow to suffer.... and then give some exemptions to his generations that whoever shouts my name need not suffer...

 

MY RESPOPNSE :I THINK YOU HAVE AGAIN MISSED THE POINT.THE POINT IS NOT ABOUT EATING APPLES BUT ABOUT TRESSPASSING THE LAW.EACH LAW HAS DIFFRENT PUNISHMENTS AS PER ITS RULE SET.FOR EXAMPLE PEOPLE WHO BARGED INTO PARILIAMENT TO ATTACK LED TO THEIR EXECUTION AND IF THE SAME ACT WOULD HAVE HAPPNED IN MY HOUSE IT WOULD BE JUST A SMALL PUNISHMENT.HENCE THE HIGHER THE PERSON GOES TO SIN AGAINST A AUTHORIOTY THE HIGHER THE PUNISHMENT.

 

[Guest guest]

Hari OM

 

i don't think you are speaking on the authority of OT or NT or any scriptural authority, you are just stating what you think things "should like be" and then at the end adding some christianity stuff....

 

"SEX WITHIN THE CONTEXT OF MARRIAGE IS NOT A SIN"

 

Is it so, on what context are you saying this, in the context of Christianity or Hinduism, Marriage is not a sin in Hinduism (and most of Hindu Gods are shown with wives), but is considered and stated as a sin in bible, hence Jesus remained a batchelor and to follow him millions of men and women remain batchelor in the world.

 

"EVERY PERSON BORN IN THIS WORLD SINS SOME OR THE OTHERWAY AND HENCE ARE GUILTY OF SIN"

 

Why and again on what authority are you saying this. This is simply a christian propaganda of frigthening people with eternal sin and hell and showing the carrot of savior , who would save from them (with one pre-condition that you should belive in that savior, that's all , it does not matter what you would do thereafter)

 

Again as Per Hinduism there is no SIN (including illitegimate action) only bondage. Every action induces a attraction in the senses, senses being devoid of mind, tries to do the same action again and again, irrespective of the dangers, pain inherent in that action. This is bondage, when you do negative actions bondage is more while positive actions give less bondage (for eg., a pligrimage does not comples you to go again and again like a bar)

 

There is Dharma which has to be practised by everyone so that the society leaves peacefully, this is enforced by King , not God (In fact there is a saying in tamil to cut desire even with God)

 

 

So don't try to read in between lines and jump into wishful thinking or just blindly believe what your local chaplin is blaberring, try to study and understand by yourself, doing so you may not incur SIN

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

The road to salvation-brahma unity - budhity,etc are similar in a way: their direction to a higher estate once we leave this body. If there were no different points of view between beliefs then it would be no mistery. Somebody respond you saying, "EVERY PERSON BORN IN THIS WORLD SINS SOME OR THE OTHERWAY AND HENCE ARE GUILTY OF SIN" I think that the idea was referring to the bad habits of the people of that area in that historical situation. There is a lot of facts of how morale was in the roman empire for their citizens and specially non citizens. There is one truth for sure, but in a different nuance for each belief.

[Guest guest]

Hari OM

 

"The road to salvation-brahma unity - budhity,etc are similar in a way: their direction to a higher estate once we leave this body"

 

Hindus did believed (few are still believing) all this philosphy, theospheocial blabbering for long time. Now many people are beginning to realize that all this utterance has no real signficiance, this is the beautiful mask behind which lies the ugly Abrahamic face which tries to convert, coerce, kill, loot and destroy cultures of others.

 

We had learned in a hard way the meaning of Thirukural, "when someone says something, the real intelligence is to find the intention of that person, not just the meaning of what is being told"

 

Now we know the truth of Abrahmic religions and we would eventually rollback it from India.

[gurukul 0]

All I said is in the context of reality (-what is) which is what the bible also talks about.

 

I dont need a christian or a religous book to say that I am a sinner.I have experienced guilt as a hindu whenever I do a wrong thing.what should you call a man who commits evil things?-a holy man?? if there is no sin as per hinduism then what is law of karma? ,dharma sutras? what happens when a person breaks these laws? -what do you call them- a righteous man??? why does rebirths occur as per hinduism if there is no sin?

 

Hence you and I are sinners not because a book declares but because sin is real and is felt by you and me.its a constant reality that we often try to supress.guilt is felt when sin occurs.because sin is real and we are not prefect in morality no matter what we do ,we need someone to save us and thats were I am attracted to christ and his mission to save mankind from all guilt and sin and its effect.That is why Jesus said "If the son (jesus) sets you free then you are free indeed".I have personally experienced this freedom from guilt after I became a christ yeshu bhakta.

 

 

[gurukul 0]

Namaste ,

 

All I said is in the context of reality (-what is) which is what the bible also talks about.

 

I dont need a christian or a religous book to say that I am a sinner.I have experienced guilt as a hindu whenever I do a wrong thing.what should you call a man who commits evil things?-a holy man?? if there is no sin as per hinduism then what is law of karma? ,dharma sutras? what happens when a person breaks these laws? -what do you call them- a righteous man??? why does rebirths occur as per hinduism if there is no sin?

 

Thankfully there is no rebirths as per the bible.according to it its only one life we live and then stand before God for all our actions and beliefs.

 

You and I are sinners not because a book declares but because sin is real and is felt by you and me.its a constant reality that we often try to supress.guilt is felt when sin occurs.because sin is real and we are not prefect in morality no matter what we do ,we need someone to save us and thats were I am attracted to christ and his mission to save mankind from all guilt and sin and its effect.That is why Jesus said "If the son (jesus) sets you free then you are free indeed".

 

I have personally experienced this freedom from guilt after I became a christ yeshu bhakta.

 

 

[Guest guest]

"thus every person born into this world inherits the nature or inclination to sin."

 

This is not true. Nitya-siddha personalities and Krsna-avatars (not Krsna because he is a sinner even though being the Supreme Personality of Godhead) are free from sin. This can be prooved by living and studying the lives of siddha-Vaisnavas (prema-bhaktas). I have and they never sin.

[Guest guest]

Hari OM

 

"You and I are sinners "

 

Please talk for yourselves , i had never given you right to talk on my behalf.

 

 

If you think you are a sinner and believe Jesus would save you from sin, please go ahead , there is no issue at all here. Every one (that is including myself) is (and should be) free to think and do as they like.

 

However when you start interferring with others beliefs and actions you really become a sinner. That is the point we hindus are opposing where a large marketing group comes and brainwashes every body that they are sinners (even though only proof they offer is bible) and instills fear in people to try to convert.

 

i am very much convinced that Abrahmic religions are stupid, however i don't want those people to believe my words, let them experience everything by themseleves and finally get destroyed by their own actions, no problems.

 

However , we ( a small group of Hindus) will always oppose conversion in any form , except for purely voultanry forms.

[gurukul 0]

namaste,

 

Is sin a propoganda? I am not Just quoting the bible or christians to say we are sinners but quoting reality or observation and the bible is just one such book that says we are sinners.The gayatri mantra says

Om ksantavyah kayiko dosah

ksantavyo vaciko mama,

ksantavyo manasa dosah

tat pramadat ksamasva mam.

or Forgive my sinful deed, forgive my wrong speech, forgive my sinful mind, forgive me for all those misdeeds.

 

Even as per our own law of dharma sutras and law of karma we are guilty of sin.if there is no sin then we dont have to worry about rebirths , varna ,good and evil and even punish acts that are evil.

 

Swami vivekananda said "Its a sin to call a person a sinner" but then what do we call a person who commit sin or evil act? what do you call a person who even does any one of these things like -lies,cheats ,swindles money,lust with some other women/girl other than his wife,jealous ,anger, kills etc?

 

The reality is that there is an inclination and tendency in every human nature to do something thats not right.NO ONE NEEDS A BOOK TO SAY THAT THAT SIN IS REAL WITHIN US AND AROUND US.

 

Can you say for sure that you never felt guilty of wrong doing? Can you say for sure and honestly that you have never sin in anyone area mentioned above?

 

 

[Guest guest]

Hari OM

 

looks like you are just accepting whatever your local chaplin says.

 

There is no Gayatri mantra in the format you had given

 

1) Gayatri is the name of meter, it can have only 24 letters not 32 letters (i.e., 3 lines not 4) , if it had 4 lines the name of the meter would be Anushtoop, so your verse can not become a Gayatri

 

2) All the Gayatri mantras have common endings like Dheemahi, Vidmahe and Parsochaithyad. Even though the name of God and the type of prayer would be different for different Gayatri

 

 

"Even as per our own law of dharma sutras and law of karma we are guilty of sin"

 

Our law--is it Hinduism or Christianity, we can't have our law when our faiths are different. If you tell Hinduism then give proof name, chapter and verse.

 

"if there is no sin then we dont have to worry about rebirths , varna ,good and evil and even punish acts that are evil"

 

Yes there is no sin, only bondage as i stated earlier. And worrying about bondage will not solve that issue.

 

Only one thing can cure the ill--- knowledge burns down the bondage.

 

The easisest way to knowledge is through Bhakti and Devotion

 

Gita --- "Surrender to me , you will surely come to me"

 

Bible---"Serve thy God and you will know the truth, the truth will set you free"

 

Koran--"InshAllah, whatever happens in this world is Allah's will , you have no role in anything"

 

And so on and so forth.

 

However what Abhramic religions are doing is NOT surrender to GOD, they think that since they had embraced some religion, they had become some kind of Special person. They strongly believe that GOD has given them special rights to harass or destroy other cultures, religions, languages , and people.

 

They come like a sheep and tell that "We are so much interested in your spiritual welfare, come to our group" and when you refuse they throw away the cover and become a wolf and kill you (probably because they are so much concerned about our welfare)

 

If you think you are a real sinner, submit completely to God, get rid of all sins, wait for the Judgement day and live happily ever after.

 

Instead, if you concentrate on marketing, and either the religion itself was false or the current interperation is false, then you are doing a disservice to humans as well as God.

 

[narayanadasa 0]

Jai Sriman Narayana:

 

The reality is that there is an inclination and tendency in every human nature to do something thats not right.NO ONE NEEDS A BOOK TO SAY THAT THAT SIN IS REAL WITHIN US AND AROUND US.

So, what you are telling is every human inherently knows what a is a sin and what is not. So, is illicit sex a sin? If nobody had looked at any religious basis everyone would have thought its not sin with justifications like "I am young, I have the sexual desire, and I have the sex organs, so why not have sex as much as I want?, Got would'nt have given me the facility if he did'nt want me to do that". As per this logic, everything we do can be categorized as "right acts".

 

So, please dont say that human beings know the entire vocabulary of all sins and all non-sins and dont need any religious books to tell us. If that is so, nobody would need any books at all, forget religious books / guidelines.