Vedic Hinduism vs Puranic Hinduism

[Guest guest]

AS is well known the major Gods of Veda are Varuna, Indra, Agni and Vayu, which are all natural forces.Rudra is just an Ashta Dig Palaka and Purusha is just a prajapathi , both minor Gods.But in the Puranic period all these becomes topsy turvey. Purusha becomes Vishnu and Rudra becomes Shiva, the two great gods of puranic Hinduism.Can any one explain why this change occured? Can any one tell whether we should follow the Vedic rElegion or Puranic Relegion?

[maadhav 0]

all we need to follow at this time is just Bhagavad Gita that has only 700 verses.

 

Gita is the summary of the vedas, given by Krishna Himself just recently. Why worry about the vedic historucal questions that are difficult to answer, chiefly because a couple of invaded ideologies have destroyed our knowledge sources drastically about our own culture and history?

We have, thansk god, the essence of our vedic treasure -Gita.

So, use it, live by it.

That is enough for us, and for the world also (if they understand the truth).

 

 

[Guest guest]

Ramchanderji:

 

you wrote:

"the major Gods of Veda are Varuna, Indra, Agni and Vayu, which are all natural forces".

 

Very TRUE. That happenned mainly because the NIRGUNA BRAHMAN or formless BRAHMAN worship was NOT satisfactory to people of that time. THey still had questions about the "relevance of Unmanifested GOD aka NB" to people's life and suffering esp. merely saying GOD exists somewhere as an

INVISIBLE spritual entity" did not work on a sensory system based, input receiving, externally and extremely dependent minds or brains. Mind aka BRAIN is a metter. Mind over matter. YOu need to have something very concrete in front of you to comprehend esp Abstract terms like BRAHMAN. So, people wondered could it be "vayu? Or varuna? or Agni? that had profound effects on people, thier lives and living, death at the end.

 

Till they figured out what ATMAN indeed was they worshipped all 5 basic (PANCHABHUTAS) elemental aspects of PRAKRITISM and considered each one by a process of elimination.

 

vedas are really really old. If you know when those 5 Panchabhutas started to exist, then you can also put a date line on vedas and their origin.

 

"Rudra is just an Ashta Dig Palaka"

 

Because RUDRA was a Bachelor DEITY at that time, until RUDRA MET PARVATI to unite as in SHIVA. In other words, RUDRA was in CREATIVE PHASE of CREATIONISM as in ORIGINAL CREATION, whereas SHIVA as in VAMANA AVATARIC TIME was introduced to Explain "Evolutionary creation, which means whatever that was created in the first phase of ORIGINAL creation by MAHAVISHNU underwent genomic changes thru many DEULGES AND PRALAYAs, esp the one which took place back in 3,000BCE, when Noah's ark story was incorporated into OT bible by western semites.

 

ABRAHM aka BRAHMA' last maharishi, who spoke hibru language was 100 yrs old, when that evolutionary creation started to occur, because of kaliyuga begining to show up. People were loaded w ahamkar then and things went astray because many other languages and dilects also started to emerge at that time. TOwer of Babel under Genesis 11:1 said there was only one language up until that time. Things were going well, till continental drift, flood legned and ABRAHM turing away from hinduism to start his own religion by dissing off all DEITY worship then.

 

go figure.

 

"and Purusha is just a prajapathi"

 

PURUSHA as in "HUMAN BEING or in mankind" was Prajapati, as BRAHMAN was not given birth by any PRAKRITI or woman. ATMAN is PRAJAPATI, as MAHAVISHNU as a Saguna TRINITY DEITY PRIMARY got manifested first in HUMAN FORM for the entire world to understand the relevane of "INVISIBLE NB" to the people to make sense to all about why NB had to appear as SAGUNA in the first place.

 

Since MAHAVISHNU is not ORdinary Humanbeing, though appeared to be like a man laying down on five headed Shesha nag at that time, The term prajapati was reserved only for the first Vamana avataric type of mankind. A man who can reproduce that is. ABRAHM could not reporduce w his wife SARAI, butthere was HAGAR from southern Egypt region who gave his child ISMAIL.

 

which clearly showed that evolutionary creation was jump started at that point of time, w a concept of Prajapati given to another BRAHMA rishi, who was hindus' first created Human being not an avatar of MAHAVISHNU. Again PRAJAPati had been created by BRAHMA in body parts only, meaning his body shell was formed first into which MAHAVISHNU HAd to instil PRANA w ATMAN to make him function like a human baby when evolutionary phase of creatin began at that time of ABRAHM spliting the religion, when he was 100 yrs old.

 

ISMAIL could be the first PRAJAPATI created in that region for western semites.

 

Because we have had SANJIVI aka HANUMANJI as our brown race ancestor first, before ADAM was even showed up as one of the Putras of SANJIVI.

 

"both minor Gods.But in the Puranic period all these becomes topsy turvey. Purusha becomes Vishnu and Rudra becomes Shiva, the two great gods of puranic Hinduism.Can any one explain why this change occured? Can any one tell whether we should follow the Vedic rElegion or Puranic Relegion?"

[Guest guest]

Ramchanderji:

you wrote:

"Can any one explain why this change occured? Can any one tell whether we should follow the Vedic rElegion or Puranic Relegion?"

 

THere was 2 different concepts here to be noted.

 

Original creation of about 840,000,000 species by MAHAVISHNU w ATMAN within first.

 

Secondary creation w Evolutionary phase, when those 840,000,000 species started to reproduce, though many died during several deluges or pralayas periodically. It is all in there in Bhaghavatum.

 

People from west looked at only evolutionary creation, as their time line was re-set as well.

 

christian calendar time of

1yr= 10,000 yrs in Brahma's timeline or time scale.

 

so, we are talking about nearly 100 yrs of documented spiritual pereptors before Adam and EVE in christian time frame, which is

 

100 X 10,000= 10, 000,000 yrs in BRAHMA's time.

 

Please read BRIHA U last verse to learn about the names of all those who lived before Briha U was continued as Genesis Book I of Moses under OT.

 

Fifth brahmana or chapter I think it is given.

 

you can follow GITA, as one DEITY worship concept began at that time period of about 6,428BCE in Mesopotemian region of ancient INDUS valley type of VEDIC culture. They still could not settle the fights between ABRAHM's group of JEWs and other Arya tribes, who were speaking many languages, besides sanskrit and Other INDIC languages, that it became necessary to introduce JC as a DEITY from NUBIAN hindu kigdowm then. THey still could not accept that "unclean spirit as GOD like DEITY, so they killed and crucified him on cross" That man who reallu died on cross was TRISANKU, an arya tribal noble king, who was loaded however w AHAMKAR. He was first known as KING DAVID in ME canaan regin, before he incarnated into a dalitic slaved person, who was dragged and killed by Pilate, the roman king w the help of jewish high priest Caiphus. Greeks found this unclean spirited man because he was all black skinned from egyptian heat and climatic conditions, but was killed because the prophecy was made on him by Danieal Izram of Isreal, a jewish priest at that time. Anyway, nubian good hindu, but a slave incarnate of Trisanku was the real JC, but was secretively replaced by a white man Christus when greeks added the name ZEUS o JEZA meaning BHAGHAVAN to it and called him JC, who took 3 dayz to come out. The point is they killed that last one man DEITY as well. But felt enormous guilty and suffering when they realized what they did to that SIDDHI bound, unclean "VOODOO" practicing NUBIAN TRISANKU incarnate aka "unclean spirit". That was when racism started w racial profiling by jews on people of color.

 

It was later in 520BCE, that EZEKIEL introduced yet another term to human sufferin called "dalitism" where people were asked to use HUMAN DUNG for making fuel w leaves, which currently thousands of dalits still do in INDIA.

 

chamar, bhanghism, brick work, etc all came out of that region when slavery was rampant.

 

got any questions? post them. i will try to answer them for ya.

 

MAY LORD VENKATESHWAR bless you all today.

 

THis is a great site, I can post w/o formalities.

 

Thanks.

[Guest guest]

there are really two roads to go. If the shift from Vedism to Puranic occurred after the end of the harrappan civilization (1900 BC) caused by death of saraswathi river, then one would have to equate brahmanism with puranic hinduism. Which i dont think is right. Some say the shift occured because indra was the major vedic deity of the sapta sindu valley and when the major river died, the god associated with it declined in favor. With the decline of the sapta sindu system (SSS) the ganga basin grew and the worship of the deity associated with the ganga basin grew (shiva).

 

However, i think of puranic hinduism as coming after brahmanism. Perhaps i am wrong and the purainc literature was orated during the time of brahmanism and written post-buddhism.

 

But the way i see it, Vedism focused heavily on ritual and nature worship with some philosophy. As the philosophy grew among the educated and advanced thinkers, so too did the ritualism among the less educated who saw the educated and wanted to do their part, which was limited to rituals. This brought about brahmanism, a corrupted form of vedism where the caste system really got its corrupted start. As buddhism and jainism grew with the introduction of new philosophies, brahmanism still flourished. But these new philosophies had their impact on brahmanism as well, forming a more philosophy and science based brahmanism that shifted away from nature worship and away from strict ritualism and focused more on the philosophical aspects of life, death, the afterlife, the relationship between differnet peoples on earth.

 

This is not a scientfic theory, just my own based on my understanding of history and religion, which i read alot of. As for what to practice, hinduism has been in a constant state of evolution from nature worship to spiritual worship. Personalyl, i dont think either should be the preferred choice today. Hindus must change their ways and learn more of the philosophy and live by that philosophy rather than living by sectarian worship of certain deities. All deities are different aspects of brahman and brahman is the one to be worshipped. Read the scriptures, such as the gita and udnerstand from learned people about the philosophies of the other srcriptiures. Do not fight over who is better, shiva or vishnu. Its stupid to fight over which is better, god or god?

 

Be more advanced thinkers and learn. We hindus have been stuck in a cycle perpetuated by 1300 years of oppression. Psychologically, oppression begets stagnation. And that is where we are culturally. Thats why foreighnors look at hindus as being backwards. They are stuck in a rut and doing the same thing that people did 1500 years ago in India. We are trying to revive that with great fervor. Its not our duty to revive that, but expand on that. evolve from that. better that and better ourselves nad better our future and our kids so we can in turn better our world.

 

We are in need of a great saint like vivekananda, someone to introduce a new modern form of hinduism, but one that doesnt lose any of its important moral factors. I dont mean a watered down diluted form, but one that is better than hinduism practiced today.

[Azygos 0]

The puranas are smritis and so they are NOT INFALLIBLE.....

moreover, they are the exoteric versions of the vedas and upanishads

 

The vedas had 2 parts

1. Karma Kanda (ritualistic part)

2. Gyana Kanda (knowledge part)

 

In time, Buddha, denouced the karma kanda......

Since then, the vedas refer only to the gyana kanda for all practical purposes...........as vyasa said "that in this kali yuga tapas and other austeries do not bring realization unlike in sattvic ages"

 

To believe in ALL the mythological lore of the puranas would really degrade our religion........they are best used to teach the principles of the vedas and vedantas to the masses........there are so many contradictions in the puranas themselves......going back to puranas would only degrade our pristine religion......

 

Regards

 

[maadhav 0]

<< ISMAIL could be the first PRAJAPATI created in that region for western semites.

 

Because we have had SANJIVI aka HANUMANJI as our brown race ancestor first, before ADAM was even showed up as one of the Putras of SANJIVI. >>

 

some one is concocting like an expert historian.

 

there is no record of Ismail having any connection with prajapati. Hanumanji is life long brahmachari, and have no children to propagete his race.

 

semetic religions are race oriented, hinduism is not.

 

Hindus, beware of such historians who mess up the vedic history which is very less known.